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Stand up for the rights of the disinterested masses. – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,606

    Foxy said:

    French presidential election first round poll:

    Le Pen 29,5 %
    Macron 24,5 %
    Mélenchon 17,5 %

    https://www.lepoint.fr/2540740

    Is Macron eligible to stand again ?
    Indeed not, so Le Pen is in a very strong position.

    She looks and sounds increasingly presidential:

    https://x.com/mlp_officiel/status/1716494045042606451
    Nice to see she has moved on from her fathers anti-semitism and Holocaust denial.
    According to a recent Ifop poll, she's slightly more trusted to combat antisemitism than Macron.

    image
    Is there any way she wins other than against Melenchon in the second round?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    I wasn't aware of it but Harry Cole has shared a letter from the Manchester Palestine Solidarity Campaign dated 7 October.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1717187507610120395

    'In a heroic move today, Palestinian freedom fighters from besieged Gaza broke Zionist colonial barriers and entered settlements on stolen Palestinian land inside 48 Palestine.'

    Don't know if this is verified but does suggest the PSC isn't quite the 'peace' movement it claims to be.

    The PSC have been known to be foul for quite a long time by those who look at these things closely. It's a major bugbear of those who do campaign against antisemitism, that seemingly every time the PSC hold a rally someone will pop up and say something deeply dangerous or offensive. Most often some dismal tankie whose found their purpose in life pretending that by joining in with the worst kind of extremist, antisemitic rhetoric on Israel, they've become some sort of noble freedom fighter.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,606
    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    I don't think this will lead to a Labour split big enough to affect the next election. But anything's possible.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609
    "Britain | Magic town
    The most typical place in Britain is Basildon
    The Economist has crunched the numbers to find the most median spot in the country"

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/10/25/the-most-typical-place-in-britain-is-basildon
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,516
    spudgfsh said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67126160

    This is a truly disgusting story.

    And yet no doubt since transportation has come up we'll get our usual "London is efficient" bollocks getting spouted. Yes its efficient, efficient at ensuring a majority of its population don't have a home of their own. No shock that such a disgusting story comes out of London.

    We need to encourage millions more houses, and opportunities for people outside of London.

    london has a special problem when it comes to housing. there's a lot which are empty but used by foreign nationals/companies as investments. deal with that and it may get a bit better.
    London is fucking great though, best city in the world. There’s that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    The British Left - and the wider, western Left - has somehow contrived it that they are on the side of these people. These are THEIR people. How can this have happened?



    It is, I submit, a catastrophe for their cause, in the long term

    You can see why the Tories want to hang on for as long as possible. This is the sort of issue that could totally wreck everything for the Labour Party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    I know my opinions have changed somewhat over the last couple of decades, but I don’t think anyone publicly arguing in 2003 that the Supreme Court was wrong to overturn laws against homosexual sex (“a devastating blow to American values”), and that “anti-sodomy laws are not motivated by hatred and bigotry”, is someone likely to be worthy of respect even today.
    https://twitter.com/MarkJacob16/status/1717289261513204070
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,014
    I was trying to hint at my tentative conclusion on Mike Johnson, after watching his speech, but perhaps I should have been more direct: I think there is a good chance Johnson will be a serious disappointment to the Loser, and his fans. I don't expect Johnson to attack the Loser, or confess his own sins, but I do expect him to try hard to get the House back to work on serious issues, which will take some attention away from the Loser, and strengthen those in the Republican Party who are working for the US, not the parasite.

    Meanwhile, more Americans will see the truth of a claim I have been making for more than a year: Following Trump risks your money, your health, and, more and more, your freedom.
  • I’m glad your excellent article got published, @Alanbrooke.
    In order to give single issue activists the opportunity to have a successful campaign, what about Swiss style referenda? They could be national, e.g. “Should oil be stopped?” or local, e.g. “Should the A47 be improved?”, to be voted on by Norfolk residents. The relevant activists could campaign and fundraise to try to convince voters to vote for their cause. They may even find that their campaigning methods are counterproductive, but that’s democracy.

    I am a big fan of the Swiss style of Government with lots of referenda.
  • viewcode said:

    Blade Runner 2049 is on BBC1 right now. It's been on for 30mins so there's only another two hours to go. If you watch it your heart will thank you.

    Been watching it but I have seen it more than a dozen times since it came out so am also drawn to PB in the background. Not as good as the original (nothing could be in my eyes) but a worthy sequel and miles better than most other films these days.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Leon said:

    The British Left - and the wider, western Left - has somehow contrived it that they are on the side of these people. These are THEIR people. How can this have happened?

    It is, I submit, a catastrophe for their cause, in the long term

    It threatens to shatter the alliance between wealthy liberals and anti-system radicals. Either what constitutes a high-status opinion will get overhauled, or we're in for some serious problems.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    If we take this logic to the end point then you’re effectively going to see mass starvation and no hospitals able to operate when they can’t fuel generators . Without fuel aid agencies can’t deliver what little food and water is on offer.

    Unless there’s a breakthrough on aid then western leaders will be forced to either support what is effectively mass starvation and likely a cholera epidemic or turn against Israel’s actions .


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    viewcode said:

    Blade Runner 2049 is on BBC1 right now. It's been on for 30mins so there's only another two hours to go. If you watch it your heart will thank you.

    Been watching it but I have seen it more than a dozen times since it came out so am also drawn to PB in the background. Not as good as the original (nothing could be in my eyes) but a worthy sequel and miles better than most other films these days.
    I liked it more than the original. For a long film it did not drag.

    I suspect I liked it more because I only saw the original about 2 days prior, and being an influential movie everything from its setting to its style I had seen done before in so much other media.

  • Well if millions of homes existed in Greenock people could move from Edinburgh to Greenock.

    They could, if they've never been to Greenock before and don't know what they're getting into...

    But seriously, Greenock the surrounding area is a good illustration of one side of the housing shortage. It does not have a housing shortage, it has a people shortage. Nobody wants to move there. The local authority, Inverclyde council, has a 'depopulation strategy' which is, not surprisingly given the lack of resources, an largely ineffective attempt to get people to stop fleeing for greener pastures.

    Large swathes of high and medium-density housing in Inverclyde, tower blocks, tenements and the like, have been demolished in recent years because they are lying empty and the housing stock has fallen into disrepair.

    Nobody is moving from Edinburgh to Greenock unless they are utterly without options. There are few high quality jobs in the area. The infrastructure is crap. The amenities are sparse and getting more so. It's an area in desperate need of help. The UK government is spending £20m to tart up the town centre, but that's like putting lipstick on someone who's dying.



    This is the Clune Park estate in Port Glasgow, a couple of miles up the road from Greenock. Inverclyde council is having to spend millions buying the place and knocking it down because it was such a hole most of the residents got the hell out and it's become a magnet for drug dealers and arsonists.

    And the bitter part? Clune Park is little more than a stone's throw from Ferguson's shipyard where the SNP has been busy pouring hundreds of millions into a black hole. That money wouldn't have fixed Inverclyde's problems, but a fraction of it spent wisely might have made Clune Park a decent place to live.

    We need to be doing something about places like this before concreting over the countryside to build a zillion new homes in desirable areas.


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,516
    edited October 2023

    Leon said:

    The British Left - and the wider, western Left - has somehow contrived it that they are on the side of these people. These are THEIR people. How can this have happened?

    It is, I submit, a catastrophe for their cause, in the long term

    It threatens to shatter the alliance between wealthy liberals and anti-system radicals. Either what constitutes a high-status opinion will get overhauled, or we're in for some serious problems.
    WTAF are you talking about now? The WilliamGlennBot (v4.1) needs reprogramming, yet again. What’s next? A rightwing libertarian econazi? There are precious few personas left.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I was trying to hint at my tentative conclusion on Mike Johnson, after watching his speech, but perhaps I should have been more direct: I think there is a good chance Johnson will be a serious disappointment to the Loser, and his fans. I don't expect Johnson to attack the Loser, or confess his own sins, but I do expect him to try hard to get the House back to work on serious issues, which will take some attention away from the Loser, and strengthen those in the Republican Party who are working for the US, not the parasite.

    Meanwhile, more Americans will see the truth of a claim I have been making for more than a year: Following Trump risks your money, your health, and, more and more, your freedom.

    With respect, it looks quite likely that Trump and his supporters chose Johnson, and manoeuvred him into the Speakership.

    Reading this account does not suggest any great distance between him and the Loser, either:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/25/mike-johnson-trump-election-gambit-00123611
  • nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    Hamas are supposed to be sitting on a petrol mountain according to the usual suspects so not sure why they need any more, but better let the incubators shut down just in case.

    The ex Israeli ambassador on Newsnight was suggesting that fuel sent to Gaza would be used to propel Hamas missiles which proves he’s not a rocket scientist whatever else his qualities might be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,392

    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    Hamas are supposed to be sitting on a petrol mountain according to the usual suspects so not sure why they need any more, but better let the incubators shut down just in case.

    The ex Israeli ambassador on Newsnight was suggesting that fuel sent to Gaza would be used to propel Hamas missiles which proves he’s not a rocket scientist whatever else his qualities might be.
    Both petrol and kerosene have been used as rocket propellants. Also methane. Not sure what fuel *hasn't* been used as a rocket propellant.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,056
    Pagan2 said:

    As a note on Roger, I find him personally a moral compass. I see which we he points on most subjects such as metoo, polanski and the middle east and feel confident that supporting the opposite is pretty much the right thing to do

    The tips he used to give on the Oscars etc were first rate though.
  • nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    Hamas are supposed to be sitting on a petrol mountain according to the usual suspects so not sure why they need any more, but better let the incubators shut down just in case.

    The ex Israeli ambassador on Newsnight was suggesting that fuel sent to Gaza would be used to propel Hamas missiles which proves he’s not a rocket scientist whatever else his qualities might be.
    Both petrol and kerosene have been used as rocket propellants. Also methane. Not sure what fuel *hasn't* been used as a rocket propellant.
    Which of the current Hamas arsenal uses petrol or kerosene as a propellant?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609
    Mike Johnson was unopposed at his most recent election in 2022.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana's_4th_congressional_district#2022
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    Hamas are supposed to be sitting on a petrol mountain according to the usual suspects so not sure why they need any more, but better let the incubators shut down just in case.

    The ex Israeli ambassador on Newsnight was suggesting that fuel sent to Gaza would be used to propel Hamas missiles which proves he’s not a rocket scientist whatever else his qualities might be.
    Mark Regev, if it was him, has long been one of Israel's more hawkish hawks, and was never particularly scrupulous when making a case.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    MJW said:

    carnforth said:

    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    I don't think this will lead to a Labour split big enough to affect the next election. But anything's possible.
    He and Labour will be fine - it didn't in the Blair years, when he did much more to create legitimate anger. Starmer is plodding thoroughly down the middle, which obviously infuriates a rump in the party who believe Labour should exist to air their grievances, but usually ends up in the most reasonable place - here accepting Israel's right to get rid of Hamas, while trying to do everything to mitigate harm to civilians and following US and EU allies' policy (who actually have influence - unlike a Labour opposition). Those complaining will overplay their hand, as they always do. Probably when march for a third consecutive weekend while completely failing to acknowledge the pain caused on 7 October.
    You are utterly misreading the situation. This time it's very far from just "a rump in the party who believe Labour should exist to air their grievances".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    It leats seems to come down to the motorhomes, these days.

    My staff on @SenateFinance
    has uncovered new, damning information about Clarence Thomas' loan from his friend Anthony Welters to purchase a luxury RV.

    New details show he never repaid a significant portion of the loan and then failed to disclose it on his ethics filings...

    https://twitter.com/RonWyden/status/1717258157502730628
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    nico679 said:

    Its strange how one line in an interview can snowball into causing so many problems for the Labour leadership and that’s set to get worse as the news out of Gaza soon will be of incubators being shut down and the vast majority of the population having no food or water.

    The question is whether fuel sent in to Gaza would have made it's way to hospitals anyway or just been held onto by Hamas for their own purposes.
    Hamas are supposed to be sitting on a petrol mountain according to the usual suspects so not sure why they need any more, but better let the incubators shut down just in case.

    The ex Israeli ambassador on Newsnight was suggesting that fuel sent to Gaza would be used to propel Hamas missiles which proves he’s not a rocket scientist whatever else his qualities might be.
    Mark Regev, if it was him, has long been one of Israel's more hawkish hawks, and was never particularly scrupulous when making a case.
    No, this was an older model, not someone I had any previous knowledge of. His main debating points reduced to their essence were dead Israeli babies justifies dead Palestinian ones and Israel bears no responsibility for dead Palestinian civilians. Not subtle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,264
    I see that Mr Chump has been fined another $10,000 for launching another attack on the Court Clerk in New York, in another violation of the Court Order.

    Judge engoron made him testify to his words on oath, and said he did not find him to be a credible witness.

    Ooops.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/donald-trump-michael-cohen-face-off-again-new-york-fraud-trial-2023-10-25/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited October 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say thank you to @boulay and @JosiasJessop for their posts on the Hamas / Israel issue, which express much of what I feel.

    My son on his return home from a job interview saw an altercation between someone objecting to a woman in a hijab tearing down posters of the kidnapped hostages. He simply couldn't understand why anyone would do this. Nor can I. It seems to me to be simple cruelty, a wish not to see the faces of people who are suffering right now, a wish to dehumanise them because to recognise their existence might cause others to wonder about what has been done to them and their families and by whom.

    And there seems to be a lot of this cruelty about - painting Hitler moustaches, threatening Jewish schools and the rest. It is simply wrong and unacceptable that in 2023 Jewish schools should need extra protection, Jewish friends of mine are taking down the mezuzah on their homes to avoid attack and so on. The shock and fear and upset that has been caused to our fellow Britons here - not just by the attack - but by the response of far too many here is underplayed. It disgusts me. Jews are feeling hurt and vulnerable and seeing in their country a display of the sort of behaviour which makes them realise why their parents and grandparents learnt to keep a packed suitcase or a few gold coins handy (my oldest friend's father - a refugee from Germany - did just that to his dying day).

    As for those demanding that Starmer change his party's policy, frankly, I hope he does not. He seems to me to have got it right. His one big achievement has been to turn the moral sewer that Labour had turned into under Corbyn into a party that can be voted for by decent people. There is a moral line which should not be crossed, IMO, and no decent party should want the votes of people who tear down posters of kidnapped children - either because they support or celebrate what was done or because they hate the religion or ethnicity of the victims.

    I have close Jewish friends and family. I have found the last few weeks more upsetting than I could have imagined. Parts of our society are pretty nasty. So I am leaving the news and social media for a while. Romantic novels and gardening for me for the foreseeable future.

    The great thing about the many varieties of Jews is that their lineage goes back thousands of years. They vary from the Ultra Orthodox who spend their lives in religeous study to those who only sign in to get their boys circumcised or their parents buried. About a quarter marry out so how long it will last is anyone's guess

    They have no politics in common.There's as much chance an orthodox rabbi will be a non Zionist as a disciple of Meir Kahane. The majority are supposed to be on the left and were prominent among the white leaders in the anti apartheid movement. But otherwise the only thing they have in common-and this is doubtful- is a particular sense of humour.

    But very few these days still see themselves as victims. I can't imagine many at the first sign of trouble taking their Mezuzahs off their doors (If indeed any still have them!) and the old story of the suitcase and knife and fork died out with my Grandmother's generation
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Rishi Sunak was in the Middle East when news of last week’s by-election defeats came through. While his team was despondent, the prime minister immediately switched into action mode.

    “The first thing he did was fire up his laptop and create his own spreadsheet to confirm we really had lost both seats,” said one person who was in the room. “That’s Rishi all over. He’s always got to dig into the numbers himself.”

    After a 20-minute interval in which Sunak insisted that the Conservatives had in fact held the constituency of Tamworth, someone spotted that he’d missed a 1 in the Labour total. It was at this point that panic set in."

    https://thecritic.co.uk/rishiversary/

    Shades of Gordon Brown as PM minus the phone throwing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Nigelb said:

    It leats seems to come down to the motorhomes, these days.

    My staff on @SenateFinance
    has uncovered new, damning information about Clarence Thomas' loan from his friend Anthony Welters to purchase a luxury RV.

    New details show he never repaid a significant portion of the loan and then failed to disclose it on his ethics filings...

    https://twitter.com/RonWyden/status/1717258157502730628

    Or, indeed, on his tax filing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited October 2023
    Why do the BBC feel the need to censor what the subject of these outbursts were?

    Yorkshire Country Cricket Club foundation trustee removed over 'discriminatory' social media posts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67223485

    Unsurprisingly it was antisemitic stuff. And somebody with a history of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/10/25/yorkshire-ccc-racism-trustee-anti-semitism-israel-gaza/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609
    edited October 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rishi Sunak was in the Middle East when news of last week’s by-election defeats came through. While his team was despondent, the prime minister immediately switched into action mode.

    “The first thing he did was fire up his laptop and create his own spreadsheet to confirm we really had lost both seats,” said one person who was in the room. “That’s Rishi all over. He’s always got to dig into the numbers himself.”

    After a 20-minute interval in which Sunak insisted that the Conservatives had in fact held the constituency of Tamworth, someone spotted that he’d missed a 1 in the Labour total. It was at this point that panic set in."

    https://thecritic.co.uk/rishiversary/

    Shades of Gordon Brown as PM minus the phone throwing.
    It sounds like a made-up story but apparently not. (Why would anyone need to confirm a by-election result by updating their own spreadsheet?)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited October 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rishi Sunak was in the Middle East when news of last week’s by-election defeats came through. While his team was despondent, the prime minister immediately switched into action mode.

    “The first thing he did was fire up his laptop and create his own spreadsheet to confirm we really had lost both seats,” said one person who was in the room. “That’s Rishi all over. He’s always got to dig into the numbers himself.”

    After a 20-minute interval in which Sunak insisted that the Conservatives had in fact held the constituency of Tamworth, someone spotted that he’d missed a 1 in the Labour total. It was at this point that panic set in."

    https://thecritic.co.uk/rishiversary/

    Shades of Gordon Brown as PM minus the phone throwing.
    It sounds like a made-up story but apparently not. (Why would anyone need to confirm a by-election result by updating their own spreadsheet?)
    It could well be embellished. That Sunak has access to spreadsheet for elections provided by CCHQ and he decided to look at it personally for a few minutes to see how things were going and wondered about a modelling choice and how changing that would effect the outcome.

    I would still think a PM, especially at the moment, has better use of their time.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited October 2023
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12672763/Plaque-honouring-black-Briton-removed-DNA-analysis-finds-likely-Cyprus.html

    Plaque honouring the 'first black Briton' is removed after DNA analysis finds she was 'most likely from Cyprus'
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12672763/Plaque-honouring-black-Briton-removed-DNA-analysis-finds-likely-Cyprus.html

    Plaque honouring the 'first black Briton' is removed after DNA analysis finds she was 'most likely from Cyprus'

    There's something not quite right about this obsession with race and DNA imo.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited October 2023
    BREAKING: At least 22 people have been killed and dozens more were injured (reports of 60+) in a mass shooting across multiple locations in Lewiston, Maine, police sources say.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,609

    BREAKING: At least 22 people have been killed and dozens more were injured (reports of 60+) in a mass shooting across multiple locations in Lewiston, Maine, police sources say.

    Second-most populous town in Maine with around 37,000 people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Ooh, the US House finally has a Speaker! Mike Johnson, who appears to be on the side of splitting up and balancing the budget, which was the key reason McCarthy got binned. Three weeks until the government shuts down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    Le Pen and Starmer will be ... interesting ...
    At the moment rightwing parties are ahead in polls in France, Germany, Italy, New Zealand, Canada and tied for the lead in Spain, the US and on the latest poll Australia.

    The UK seems to be the exception in being the only major western nation at the moment where a left of centre party is clearly ahead. That does suggest Starmer's honeymoon may be short if a new Labour government has to deal with the economic situation other left liberal governments are having to deal with (the left or liberals in power in most western nations at the moment except Italy, NZ and the UK)
    Or it just means that their political system may not be the same as ours, or that their political cycle may be different to ours. Both of which are to various extents true, so reading across from one to another is folly.

    To take one example, in Australia in 1996 they rejected their existing Labor government and went for the Liberal (we would call them Conservative) Coalition opposition with a new Prime Minister, John Howard.
    The next year the UK rejected the existing Conservative government and went for Labour opposition with a new Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

    Did the fact these were opposing sides of the "left-right divide" mean the other had a short honeymoon? No, both were PMs for about a decade, coincidentally both leaving office in 2007.

    We will vote how we vote, not how other countries vote.
    There was more of a divide at that time though, in Germany and Canada and the US the left were in power and ahead in polls in the late 1990s as they were in the UK and the right as you say were ahead and in power in Australia and Spain and France (at least at presidential level).

    At the moment however after a clear swing to the centre left in most western nations post Covid, with the left coming to power in the US, Germany and Australia since 2020 and liberals being re elected in France and Canada, there now seems to be something of a swing back.

    The right have come to power in Italy and NZ and are leading in polls in most western nations as largely left leaning governments grapple with high inflation.

    The UK has still not had a general election post Covid so Starmer may benefit from the delayed swing to the left before a potential swing back here too as a Labour government has to try and keep inflation and interest rates down
    New Zealand again was on a different cycle, Ardern didn't rise to power as PM during Covid, she was already PM years before anyone had even heard of it. Italy too is a terrible comparator, them changing governments is nothing new, they haven't had any long lasting stable governments in the past 40 years besides Berlusconi.

    Every country is unique, none is a carbon copy of another.
    Italy has had a clear swing to the right, away from the centre left and technocratic governments it now has a rightwing populist government with a clear overall majority for the right and PM Meloni still leads the polls.

    In NZ Ardern got a landslide victory post Covid, in 2017 her party trailed the Nationals and she only got in via deals with NZ First and the Greens. Now the Nationals are back in power again
    It’s less to do with countries swinging left or right, and more to do with the post-covid economy everywhere being terrible, leading to a reaction against incumbent governments across the Western world.
  • New thread.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain | Magic town
    The most typical place in Britain is Basildon
    The Economist has crunched the numbers to find the most median spot in the country"

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/10/25/the-most-typical-place-in-britain-is-basildon

    "Most median"

    (cries quietly)
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