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By newspaper read the Tories only lead amongst Mail readers – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited October 2023 in General
imageBy newspaper read the Tories only lead amongst Mail readers – politicalbetting.com

I find the above table from Survation absolutely fascinating and highlights the massive challenge facing Sunak and his team at the coming general election.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    First
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    1st like Keir 😈
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    edited October 2023
    I am not shocked at the FT. I has been either pro labour or labour leaning for a while now. It is also talking about ceasing print circulation and just going online.

    If this polling persists then I think The Sun comes out for SKS.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited October 2023
    The Sun will be out of step with their readership this time because I can't see them ever endorsing Starmer for fear that Leveson 2 re-emerges...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    1st like Keir 😈

    Poor Keir, failed at the final hurdle !!!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    GIN1138 said:

    The Sun will be out of step with their readership this time because I can't see them ever endorsing Starmer for feat that Leveson 2 re-emerges...

    I think they would. They like to back who they think are winners. SKS has already toned down his previous pro EU fanaticism to not scare the horses.
  • Maybe, just maybe, print journalism just isn't as much of an opinion former as it once was. Which, if true, should knock a few millions off the sale price for the Telegraph Group....
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Can somebody post that Yes Minister clip we've seen a thousand times before and get it out of the way.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Maybe, just maybe, print journalism just isn't as much of an opinion former as it once was. Which, if true, should knock a few millions off the sale price for the Telegraph Group....

    Sadly the media-finance-political nexus that runs the UK is as potent as ever.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    Reviews starting to come in for Dark Side of the Moon Redux...


    "Nevertheless, I am astonished, delighted and even slightly perplexed to report that the 80-year-old curmudgeon has genuinely pulled off something quite extraordinary."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/what-to-listen-to/roger-waters-dark-side-of-the-moon-review/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    Anyone remember those cigarette sweets you could buy in the 70s and 80s?

    Wonder whatever happened to them? 😂
  • Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Sun will be out of step with their readership this time because I can't see them ever endorsing Starmer for feat that Leveson 2 re-emerges...

    I think they would. They like to back who they think are winners. SKS has already toned down his previous pro EU fanaticism to not scare the horses.
    They're in a tricky spot, to be sure. The Sun might struggle to back Labour, but they also don't want to back a loser.

    Maybe just say as little as possible about politics.

    https://www.frontpages.com/the-sun/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    (FPT)
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Japan building revolutionary 177 mile maglev from Tokyo to Nagoya for £45bn, 90% in tunnels under mountains as part of integrated Shinkansen system…

    equivalent of London to Manchester (in straight line) in 40 minutes… at 310mph

    The ridiculous cost of large public sector projects needs to be looked at because - nuclear power is another traincrash for finances in this country generally.
    The management of the Euston end of the HS2 project has been terrible. I know electricians working on the project at Euston who for the past year have done no work but are getting paid £2200 per week. They just go and sit in the site hut and play on their phones. I imagine this type of management is why Sunak said yesterday that those in charge of the Euston bit are being relieved of their duties. It does seem a British thing that for large scale public projects people are much more interested in how much money they can make from it for very little work rather than getting the job done on time..
    They are on time - they're being paid £2,200 a week because the section east of OOC was put on hold back in the spring.
    £2,200 per week to do no work is an OK way for public money to be spent?
    Hell no! But this is Tory spivism in action - pay large amounts of money for nothing. Remember all the duff PPE contracts? How is this any different?
    TBF some of that money is coming back to the Treasury in tax. But not sure how much. Not keeping up with [edit] what is and what is not allowed for the self-employed these days - didn't it change recently?
    Lots of expenses in London ;)
    There was an article in the NYT about similar stuff in New York public projects. As usual, the Americans had taken it to its logical conclusion and were paying fictional workers to do nothing.

    There was even an attempt to justify this on the grounds that everyone deserved a share of the pie!
    Yet we wonder why a group of Congresscritters wants to take a good look at the federal budget, and not just sign a massive omnibus continuation bill?
    Nobody wonders why. They are hoping to damage the US economy through a federal government shutdown and improve DJT's chances in 2024.

    As if they give a shit about anything else.
    Not entirely true.
    Gaetz reportedly aspires to be the next governor of Florida.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    "All of the England team have made double figures. First time in an ODI, apparently."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/66854204
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Sun will be out of step with their readership this time because I can't see them ever endorsing Starmer for feat that Leveson 2 re-emerges...

    I think they would. They like to back who they think are winners. SKS has already toned down his previous pro EU fanaticism to not scare the horses.
    They're in a tricky spot, to be sure. The Sun might struggle to back Labour, but they also don't want to back a loser.

    Maybe just say as little as possible about politics.

    https://www.frontpages.com/the-sun/
    Was it one of the 1974 elections where they didn't endorse any party? They might try that trick again for Election 24.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    The FT figures don't surprise me since they endorsed Labour as far back as 1992.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone remember those cigarette sweets you could buy in the 70s and 80s?

    Wonder whatever happened to them? 😂

    Still on sale in NZ, but are called “Spaceman” and the more obvious link to cigarettes - the red tip - has sadly now been removed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Sun will be out of step with their readership this time because I can't see them ever endorsing Starmer for feat that Leveson 2 re-emerges...

    I think they would. They like to back who they think are winners. SKS has already toned down his previous pro EU fanaticism to not scare the horses.
    They're in a tricky spot, to be sure. The Sun might struggle to back Labour, but they also don't want to back a loser.

    Maybe just say as little as possible about politics.

    https://www.frontpages.com/the-sun/
    Was it one of the 1974 elections where they didn't endorse any party? They might try that trick again for Election 24.
    "May the best man win (and God help us if they don't)", I think.

    Doable when the situation is genuinely close. Trickier when it doesn't look close and your soulmate is the one who is losing.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    Golden!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    Yes, something like 20% wanted nightclubs shut down permanently.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    Great point. There was a significant minority who were in favour of pubs and nightclubs staying shut full stop.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    I think that it has never been true that newspaper readers necessarily follow the editorial line on politics. Often they like the paper in other ways, eg the sports coverage or celebrity gossip, and ignore the Op Ed columns.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Taz said:

    I am not shocked at the FT. I has been either pro labour or labour leaning for a while now. It is also talking about ceasing print circulation and just going online.

    If this polling persists then I think The Sun comes out for SKS.

    The FT is sane-leaning.
    That’s precluded support for the Tories for quite some time.
    As far back as 92 IIRC.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Mortimer said:

    Golden!

    Sadly, Woakes is having a bit of a mare.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    I am not shocked at the FT. I has been either pro labour or labour leaning for a while now. It is also talking about ceasing print circulation and just going online.

    If this polling persists then I think The Sun comes out for SKS.

    A while being since 1992. Ed Balls was in charge at that time.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Having two World Cups overlapping is a bit weird, isn't it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    Great point. There was a significant minority who were in favour of pubs and nightclubs staying shut full stop.
    There is no freedom so precious to the British as the freedom to mess other people up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Nigelb said:

    Mortimer said:

    Golden!

    Sadly, Woakes is having a bit of a mare.
    Is there no escape from Woakeness ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    I'm not. Pensionerism, remember?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    CatMan said:

    Having two World Cups overlapping is a bit weird, isn't it?

    The cricket world cup was originally supposed to take place in February and March this year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Cricket_World_Cup#Background
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited October 2023
    "That just 29% of FT readers are Tory backers is one that I would not have predicted."

    The FT rather surprisingly endorsed Labour in 1992, then through the Blair years, before going for Cameron and then May 2010-2017. It made no endorsement in 2019.

    Broadly (although 1992 was a bit of a wildcard that raised eyebrows at the time) it's gone for perceived competence. I'd be surprised if it didn't endorse Labour next year.

    In particular, its take on Sunak's recent tack is pretty scathing - the business view on such matters tends to be that markets like the stability of governments that are predictable, making and (crucially) sticking to policy decisions. In a sense the policy itself is less important than whether investors are confident it will be the same policy tomorrow, next week, and next year.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Farooq said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Can somebody post that Yes Minister clip we've seen a thousand times before and get it out of the way.

    This one?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY
    Good joke, but I think @Dura_Ace means this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    Raining here too. At least it's warm where you are.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Mortimer said:

    Golden!

    Sadly, Woakes is having a bit of a mare.
    Is there no escape from Woakeness ?
    It's happening Currantly
  • Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
  • So after committing yesterday to build transport projects that had already been built, Rishi Sunak is now moving on to dropping ones that haven't.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1709914868206223699
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Mortimer said:

    Golden!

    Sadly, Woakes is having a bit of a mare.
    Is there no escape from Woakeness ?
    Ravindra is channelling his inner Casino, evidently.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    The Telegraph is the one that surprises me the most here. FT certainly not; it’s a centrist and socially liberal paper that favours competence.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    I am torn on the smoking thing.

    I am generally on the side of liberalisation of drug policy so as to better regulate it so this flies in the face of that. I also have an inbuilt aversion to the concept of banning things, though can be persuaded otherwise.

    However as an undoubtedly unhealthy activity that is in what appears to be terminal decline I understand the rationale in trying to hurry it along.

    I think on balance I’d question the need for a ban. Smoking is becoming less and less popular as time goes on anyway, and the market will eventually treat it as a niche product and that will be it. At that point you can just make it so prohibitively expensive through general taxation (and lack of demand) that it will just become the preserve of the odd eccentric here or there. By actually prohibiting sale I think there is the risk that it becomes more exciting to youngsters as forbidden fruit, so as to make the whole thing counterproductive.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited October 2023
    Slightly weird twitter spat between Owen Jones and Martina Navratilova. Something to do with Enoch Powell.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    viewcode said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    I'm not. Pensionerism, remember?
    I suppose that’s right, too.

    Most pensioners seem to get off on denying younger people the freedoms they once enjoyed.

    Turns out most “kindly” old people are just utterly selfish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    GO: THE DONALD

    🇺🇲 2024 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

    Among registered voters (n=868)

    (R) Trump 51% (+3)
    (D) Biden 48%
    ---
    Among likely voters (n=690)

    (D) Biden 51% (+2)
    (R) Trump 49%

    @MULawPoll
    (A/B) | 9/18-25
    https://law.marquette.edu/poll/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IT'S HAPPENING
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Why would anyone in the UK look on the increased chances of a Trump presidency with anything but foreboding?
  • Lol.
    Incoming ‘You know who else was on the cover of Time?’ in 5-4-3-2-1…


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Should think this is about UKG level, except they'd need someone else to wind it up at £2200 per week.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C8_VdMm7s0
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    So after committing yesterday to build transport projects that had already been built, Rishi Sunak is now moving on to dropping ones that haven't.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1709914868206223699

    "We're committing the full £36bn to look into it."
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Ha, the useless feckers already looked at it when the hapless Holden was a backbencher and ruled it out.

    They really are utterly useless.

    Perhaps look at expanding the Metro as advocated by Nexus/NECA.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Andy_JS said:

    CatMan said:

    Having two World Cups overlapping is a bit weird, isn't it?

    The cricket world cup was originally supposed to take place in February and March this year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Cricket_World_Cup#Background
    Ah I see. Could they not have delayed it a bit more though, considering it's also still the rainy season in India? Or are there scheduling conflicts?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Andy_JS said:

    CatMan said:

    Having two World Cups overlapping is a bit weird, isn't it?

    The cricket world cup was originally supposed to take place in February and March this year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Cricket_World_Cup#Background
    Yet they still can’t sell the tickets, or even get a bunch of kids in the grounds to make some atmosphere.

    The whole tournament has been massive sh!t-show before it even started, as most of these things are - but this one doesn’t look likely to redeem itself, with the exception of the massive crowd expected for I vs P

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/10/05/cricket-world-cup-2023-empty-stadium-england-v-new-zealand/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    IT'S HAPPENING

    Sun came out ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    NZ walking this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
    The fricking Gazette sent me here in the rainiest month of the year. GRRR

    TBF I am here mainly to dive so rain is less annoying (but still annoying). What amazes me is that there are paying guiests here. Paying, when you add it all up, £600-£1000 a night

    WTF. Who wants to pay that to sit in a room (however luxe) and stare at drizzle? I'd rather be in Glasgow. I can only presume they either didn't do their research or they chose the cheapest time and endured a bad time just for the boasting rights ("Oh we went to the Maldives")

    Truly truly weird
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
    The fricking Gazette sent me here in the rainiest month of the year. GRRR

    TBF I am here mainly to dive so rain is less annoying (but still annoying). What amazes me is that there are paying guiests here. Paying, when you add it all up, £600-£1000 a night

    WTF. Who wants to pay that to sit in a room (however luxe) and stare at drizzle? I'd rather be in Glasgow. I can only presume they either didn't do their research or they chose the cheapest time and endured a bad time just for the boasting rights ("Oh we went to the Maldives")

    Truly truly weird
    You have done me a great service.
    You have confirmed my suspicions; I need never go to the Maldives.
  • Ghedebrav said:

    The Telegraph is the one that surprises me the most here. FT certainly not; it’s a centrist and socially liberal paper that favours competence.

    The Telegraph figures also raised my eyebrow, and perhaps is a slight outlier. On the other hand, it's still a lower Labour share than for any paper other than the Express and Mail, and some of the Tory vote appears to be spread over RefUK, Reclaim and even UKIP (remember them?) each of whom has a higher share than other newspaper readers give them. This accords with the increasingly eccentric, alt-right editorial shift of the Telegraph.

    Bit sad to see what the Telegraph has become. It used to be very much Tory, but serious and authoritative with it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    It must be difficult to accurately poll newspaper readers, especially these days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
    The fricking Gazette sent me here in the rainiest month of the year. GRRR

    TBF I am here mainly to dive so rain is less annoying (but still annoying). What amazes me is that there are paying guiests here. Paying, when you add it all up, £600-£1000 a night

    WTF. Who wants to pay that to sit in a room (however luxe) and stare at drizzle? I'd rather be in Glasgow. I can only presume they either didn't do their research or they chose the cheapest time and endured a bad time just for the boasting rights ("Oh we went to the Maldives")

    Truly truly weird
    You have done me a great service.
    You have confirmed my suspicions; I need never go to the Maldives.
    No, the Maldives ARE exceptional. Nothing like them on earth

    BUT DON'T EVER COME FROM MAY-NOVEMBER
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    Great weather forecast here in Blighty for the weekend.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    These are good arguments.
    But I would also want to draw a distinction between those things which only harm you (cigarettes) and those things likely to harm others (drunk driving).

    Perhaps seatbelts is a better comparison.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
    The fricking Gazette sent me here in the rainiest month of the year. GRRR

    TBF I am here mainly to dive so rain is less annoying (but still annoying). What amazes me is that there are paying guiests here. Paying, when you add it all up, £600-£1000 a night

    WTF. Who wants to pay that to sit in a room (however luxe) and stare at drizzle? I'd rather be in Glasgow. I can only presume they either didn't do their research or they chose the cheapest time and endured a bad time just for the boasting rights ("Oh we went to the Maldives")

    Truly truly weird
    Don’t worry, it normally only rains there for an hour or two, the sun will be back out soon. There’s cricket to watch in the meantime.

    I was there in September last year, a belated honeymoon I couldn’t get out of, and we had a few days with rain but never washed out.

    Our little villa in the sea was $900 a night, all inclusive, my car was cheaper than that holiday - but it was the best week of my wife’s life, and she still goes on about it more than a year later, which I guess made the price worth it!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone remember those cigarette sweets you could buy in the 70s and 80s?

    Wonder whatever happened to them? 😂

    And 50s and 60s. White sugary sticks painted red on the end. sold in packs of 10. I was a fan. At the age of about 7 it was the height of cool in 1962.
  • The HS2 link to Euston may never be built unless private sector investment is secured, officials have admitted, undermining the prime minister’s conference pledge.

    Rishi Sunak used his speech on Wednesday to scrap the line north of Birmingham, but promised it would reach Euston in central London.

    He said: “We will complete the line from Birmingham to Euston,” adding that construction of central London station would be taken away from HS2 Ltd, the government-run company tasked with delivering the project, and handed to a development company.

    However, it emerged today that the whole scheme, not just the station, is contingent on a substantial proportion of the cost being met by private funds. This includes a 4.5-mile tunnel from Old Oak Common, west London. If the money cannot be raised, HS2 will permanently terminate at Old Oak Common.

    Sunak said on Wednesday that the government’s new plan for Euston station will generate “£6.5 billion of savings”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-may-never-reach-euston-without-private-sector-funding-x3hjd9n36
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    algarkirk said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone remember those cigarette sweets you could buy in the 70s and 80s?

    Wonder whatever happened to them? 😂

    And 50s and 60s. White sugary sticks painted red on the end. sold in packs of 10. I was a fan. At the age of about 7 it was the height of cool in 1962.
    There waqs a kind made with solid chocolate in (presumably) rice paper. Tasted much nicer.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Amazing table @MikeSmithson

    Even the Mail is only by a squeak.

    The 12% Sun lead for Labour would be a disaster for the tories at the election.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    It's a terrible policy, and a Labour policy to boot. I just didn't have the energy to get into it.

    I don't think the numbers add up either. I believe that smoking is judged to cost the economy something like £17bn through illness. The Government takes £10bn in tax on cigarettes, and the smoking-related illnesses are probably offsetting other, potentially more protracted illnesses (like dementia) that could afflict non-smokers, not to mention longer pension withdrawals and social care costs, so that £17bn won't be 'saved' anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    The new Nobel laureate long since mastered the literary form that is the humblebrag.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/live/2023/oct/05/nobel-prize-in-literature-2023-live
    ...In Norway, Fosse is so well-known that there is an International Fosse festival in Oslo, a biennial event that took place for the third time in summer 2023.

    He also has an official residence in Oslo, courtesy of Norway’s royal family. “It’s part of the palace. To be absolutely honest, I didn’t really want it. But they convinced me” he told Andrew Dickson in 2014...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Lol.
    Incoming ‘You know who else was on the cover of Time?’ in 5-4-3-2-1…


    Hitler managed it six tmes, so Humza still has a way to go

    https://www.daily-lazy.com/2011/12/hitler-on-cover-of-time-magazine-1931.html
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited October 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    It must be difficult to accurately poll newspaper readers, especially these days.

    What does it mean even? Almost no-one buys hard copies. Several are available free online. Surely most people just pick and choose. None is worth paying for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    It's a terrible policy, and a Labour policy to boot. I just didn't have the energy to get into it.

    I don't think the numbers add up either. I believe that smoking is judged to cost the economy something like £17bn through illness. The Government takes £10bn in tax on cigarettes, and the smoking-related illnesses are probably offsetting other, potentially more protracted illnesses (like dementia) that could afflict non-smokers, not to mention longer pension withdrawals and social care costs, so that £17bn won't be 'saved' anyway.
    That is indeed what the long term CBA looks like.
    The end of life savings on medical care for smokers outweigh everything else.

    OTOH, with a declining population, and the need to keep today's young working as long as they can...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Lol.
    Incoming ‘You know who else was on the cover of Time?’ in 5-4-3-2-1…


    Diddly



  • Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Worth noting that Henri Murison is CEO of Osborne's Northern Powerhouse Partnership. If he is describing NN as a fairytale, it matters.

    And as I have been picking at for the last 24 hours, the rest of it is crayons as well. Unless @HYUFD can tell us exactly what the Manchester North West Quadrant scheme is which was greenlit yesterday?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone remember those cigarette sweets you could buy in the 70s and 80s?

    Wonder whatever happened to them? 😂

    And 50s and 60s. White sugary sticks painted red on the end. sold in packs of 10. I was a fan. At the age of about 7 it was the height of cool in 1962.
    There was a kind made with solid chocolate in (presumably) rice paper. Tasted much nicer.
    Damn, I remember those.
    Used to get them in my Xmas stocking.

    Cool AF.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Still raining in the Maldives. I want to come home. Help

    It rains in autumn in the Tropics, really? Wow. :D

    Not raining where I am, quite sunny in fact, and only a couple of hours from you on the plane…
    The fricking Gazette sent me here in the rainiest month of the year. GRRR

    TBF I am here mainly to dive so rain is less annoying (but still annoying). What amazes me is that there are paying guiests here. Paying, when you add it all up, £600-£1000 a night

    WTF. Who wants to pay that to sit in a room (however luxe) and stare at drizzle? I'd rather be in Glasgow. I can only presume they either didn't do their research or they chose the cheapest time and endured a bad time just for the boasting rights ("Oh we went to the Maldives")

    Truly truly weird
    Don’t worry, it normally only rains there for an hour or two, the sun will be back out soon. There’s cricket to watch in the meantime.

    I was there in September last year, a belated honeymoon I couldn’t get out of, and we had a few days with rain but never washed out.

    Our little villa in the sea was $900 a night, all inclusive, my car was cheaper than that holiday - but it was the best week of my wife’s life, which made the price worth it!
    It has rained without cease for four days, and we fly home tomorrow

    BUT I haven't laid out a penny for it, and I have done the two best scuba dives of my life, one night dive above the famous reef of Maaya Thali, one with James Bond super-scooter into a storm of sharks. Just amazing. And the free booze is endless

    However, I do feel - seriously - for the poor saps that PAID
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    I'm sorry, but finding it difficult to stop smoking is entirely a personal weakness.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    These are good arguments.
    But I would also want to draw a distinction between those things which only harm you (cigarettes) and those things likely to harm others (drunk driving).

    Perhaps seatbelts is a better comparison.
    I was going to use the seatbelts argument as well but was too pissed off with the obnoxious dismissal of smokers having a “weakness”.

    Smoking does harm others though, unborn children, children, people who might live with smokers who are inconsiderate but it also harms other people such as the families of smokers when the smokers are dying painfully from cancer and emphysema and they have to watch them go because they were hooked to a horrible addictive chemical. People are harmed by losing loved ones and friends.

    If someone invented cigarettes today and said “these things will kill you, damage your health, stunt your baby’s growth. You will be addicted and spend a fortune on something really bad for you and society but they will act as a crutch when you are stressed ” they wouldn’t be allowed to sell them at all.

    And to reconfirm I’m a smoker, not an evangelical ex smoker or someone who has never smoked so makes generalisations without the experience.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    NZ are humiliating England.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Taz said:

    Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Ha, the useless feckers already looked at it when the hapless Holden was a backbencher and ruled it out.

    They really are utterly useless.

    Perhaps look at expanding the Metro as advocated by Nexus/NECA.
    Problem is NPR claim they need it for NPR to work all the way to Newcastle. Now I don't believe them but can't be arsed to read the details again that would give me an accurate answer.

    https://twitter.com/henrimurison/status/1709889650477633791

    And you can't dual purpose the track and have both metro and ECML trains on the same track at the same time it would be a complete nightmare..
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    The HS2 link to Euston may never be built unless private sector investment is secured, officials have admitted, undermining the prime minister’s conference pledge.

    Rishi Sunak used his speech on Wednesday to scrap the line north of Birmingham, but promised it would reach Euston in central London.

    He said: “We will complete the line from Birmingham to Euston,” adding that construction of central London station would be taken away from HS2 Ltd, the government-run company tasked with delivering the project, and handed to a development company.

    However, it emerged today that the whole scheme, not just the station, is contingent on a substantial proportion of the cost being met by private funds. This includes a 4.5-mile tunnel from Old Oak Common, west London. If the money cannot be raised, HS2 will permanently terminate at Old Oak Common.

    Sunak said on Wednesday that the government’s new plan for Euston station will generate “£6.5 billion of savings”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-may-never-reach-euston-without-private-sector-funding-x3hjd9n36

    Bloody hell. So we could really be left with a total white elephant, for huge spend and none of the benefits.

    Really happy to see the government take these long term decisions. I wonder if anyone in the cabinet is seriously uncomfortable with the decision?
  • kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Might you have dabbled still, just with the local dealer rather than the newsagent?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    It's more about minimising the number of future 'me's.
  • The HS2 link to Euston may never be built unless private sector investment is secured, officials have admitted, undermining the prime minister’s conference pledge.

    Rishi Sunak used his speech on Wednesday to scrap the line north of Birmingham, but promised it would reach Euston in central London.

    He said: “We will complete the line from Birmingham to Euston,” adding that construction of central London station would be taken away from HS2 Ltd, the government-run company tasked with delivering the project, and handed to a development company.

    However, it emerged today that the whole scheme, not just the station, is contingent on a substantial proportion of the cost being met by private funds. This includes a 4.5-mile tunnel from Old Oak Common, west London. If the money cannot be raised, HS2 will permanently terminate at Old Oak Common.

    Sunak said on Wednesday that the government’s new plan for Euston station will generate “£6.5 billion of savings”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-may-never-reach-euston-without-private-sector-funding-x3hjd9n36

    Bloody hell. So we could really be left with a total white elephant, for huge spend and none of the benefits.

    Really happy to see the government take these long term decisions. I wonder if anyone in the cabinet is seriously uncomfortable with the decision?
    Those that cared about anything more than rhetoric and soundbites are long since gone.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2023
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    These are good arguments.
    But I would also want to draw a distinction between those things which only harm you (cigarettes) and those things likely to harm others (drunk driving).

    Perhaps seatbelts is a better comparison.
    I was going to use the seatbelts argument as well but was too pissed off with the obnoxious dismissal of smokers having a “weakness”.

    Smoking does harm others though, unborn children, children, people who might live with smokers who are inconsiderate but it also harms other people such as the families of smokers when the smokers are dying painfully from cancer and emphysema and they have to watch them go because they were hooked to a horrible addictive chemical. People are harmed by losing loved ones and friends.

    If someone invented cigarettes today and said “these things will kill you, damage your health, stunt your baby’s growth. You will be addicted and spend a fortune on something really bad for you and society but they will act as a crutch when you are stressed ” they wouldn’t be allowed to sell them at all.

    And to reconfirm I’m a smoker, not an evangelical ex smoker or someone who has never smoked so makes generalisations without the experience.
    And I’m a non-smoker from a family of non-smokers.

    But I’m also an instinctive liberal who bridles at bans except where the risk falls beyond the individual (in which case, I fully support bans such as on the Bully XL breed).

    I actually even wonder whether compulsory seatbelts is strictly desirable.

    I think the case against cigarettes is very strong, but many people do enjoy them, and many make their livelihoods from them.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Worth noting that Henri Murison is CEO of Osborne's Northern Powerhouse Partnership. If he is describing NN as a fairytale, it matters.

    And as I have been picking at for the last 24 hours, the rest of it is crayons as well. Unless @HYUFD can tell us exactly what the Manchester North West Quadrant scheme is which was greenlit yesterday?
    The bit that got me is the reopening of the Ferryhill station - which as far as I can tell will take you to Billingham and from there Stockton and Boro....

    I really can't see many people using it...
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2023
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    These are good arguments.
    But I would also want to draw a distinction between those things which only harm you (cigarettes) and those things likely to harm others (drunk driving).

    Perhaps seatbelts is a better comparison.
    I was going to use the seatbelts argument as well but was too pissed off with the obnoxious dismissal of smokers having a “weakness”.

    Smoking does harm others though, unborn children, children, people who might live with smokers who are inconsiderate but it also harms other people such as the families of smokers when the smokers are dying painfully from cancer and emphysema and they have to watch them go because they were hooked to a horrible addictive chemical. People are harmed by losing loved ones and friends.

    If someone invented cigarettes today and said “these things will kill you, damage your health, stunt your baby’s growth. You will be addicted and spend a fortune on something really bad for you and society but they will act as a crutch when you are stressed ” they wouldn’t be allowed to sell them at all.

    And to reconfirm I’m a smoker, not an evangelical ex smoker or someone who has never smoked so makes generalisations without the experience.
    Its too performative for me. Tobacco is another vice, marketed and sold by bastards but we can legislate the advertising away.

    Besides, vaping seems to be significantly reducing tobacco consumption amongst the young. Just let tobacco become an anachronism for the old and smelly with black powders muskets and classic cars. Let human nature do its thing.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    boulay said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    As Covid showed, people like restrictions on other people's freedom....
    I'm a lifetime smoker and I support this. If only it had been in place when I started. I don't feel free when I light up. I feel enslaved.
    Your own weaknesses shouldn't infuence Govt policy....
    Should we repeal the drink driving laws because some people are “weak” and can’t control themselves balancing out how much they can drink and drive safely?

    What Kinabalu wrote is exactly what I was thinking this morning. Finding it difficult to stop smoking is not “weakness” and there are many many different reasons why people find it hard to give up.

    I guess you have absolutely no weaknesses yourself which luckily won’t kill you, damage those around you.

    If it stops even a few kids from taking up smoking and dying unnecessarily then it’s good and not a liberal “freedom” hill worth dying on.
    These are good arguments.
    But I would also want to draw a distinction between those things which only harm you (cigarettes) and those things likely to harm others (drunk driving).

    Perhaps seatbelts is a better comparison.
    https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/passive-smoking-protect-your-family-and-friends/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Views of banning cigarettes are not governed by a single issue.

    Personally I am libertarian, and would prefer to live in a society in which all drugs were legal, but the corollary of that would be a society in which you take responsibility for the consequences of your actions, and the state would have no obligation to treat and help with addictions. In such a society banning smoking would be crazy.

    But it isn't crazy in the society we have got - one in which we are addicted to control, and also allow everyone, however crazily they have acted, to be a massive expense to the state - health care and benefits etc. Here and now banning smoking makes perfect sense.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    The HS2 link to Euston may never be built unless private sector investment is secured, officials have admitted, undermining the prime minister’s conference pledge.

    Rishi Sunak used his speech on Wednesday to scrap the line north of Birmingham, but promised it would reach Euston in central London.

    He said: “We will complete the line from Birmingham to Euston,” adding that construction of central London station would be taken away from HS2 Ltd, the government-run company tasked with delivering the project, and handed to a development company.

    However, it emerged today that the whole scheme, not just the station, is contingent on a substantial proportion of the cost being met by private funds. This includes a 4.5-mile tunnel from Old Oak Common, west London. If the money cannot be raised, HS2 will permanently terminate at Old Oak Common.

    Sunak said on Wednesday that the government’s new plan for Euston station will generate “£6.5 billion of savings”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-may-never-reach-euston-without-private-sector-funding-x3hjd9n36

    Bloody hell. So we could really be left with a total white elephant, for huge spend and none of the benefits.

    Really happy to see the government take these long term decisions. I wonder if anyone in the cabinet is seriously uncomfortable with the decision?
    I've made a few mentions of salting the earth based on the decision to sell the land at Euston (and elsewhere) that would be required to allow HS2 to be completed.

    I wonder if Rishi has equally salted the long term popularity and reputation of the Tory party.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    It's a terrible policy, and a Labour policy to boot. I just didn't have the energy to get into it.

    I don't think the numbers add up either. I believe that smoking is judged to cost the economy something like £17bn through illness. The Government takes £10bn in tax on cigarettes, and the smoking-related illnesses are probably offsetting other, potentially more protracted illnesses (like dementia) that could afflict non-smokers, not to mention longer pension withdrawals and social care costs, so that £17bn won't be 'saved' anyway.
    People dying saves us money may be true, but I’m not certain it should be the basis of decision making.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    OT What is "5 News"? It sounds like the News on Channel 5 but if broadcasters are included then surely BBC and ITV would be there aswell. Or is it a newsaper that has started in the last 10 years?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Who could have predicted this?


    BREAKING

    After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

    Roads minister Richard Holden tells me Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

    Furious reaction already. @henrimurison says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.


    https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048

    Worth noting that Henri Murison is CEO of Osborne's Northern Powerhouse Partnership. If he is describing NN as a fairytale, it matters.

    And as I have been picking at for the last 24 hours, the rest of it is crayons as well. Unless @HYUFD can tell us exactly what the Manchester North West Quadrant scheme is which was greenlit yesterday?
    Rochdale, I'm mildly disappointed. Why ask HYUFD when you have someone almost tediously Mancunian on the board with a penchant for banging on and on and on about transport?
    MNWQ is a road scheme linking the two separate sections of the M62, effectively bypassing the M60 between junctions 12 and 18, which includes the most congested stretch of motorway outside the M25 (i.e. the M60 between the M602 and M61).
    It's a scheme which has been knocking around for some time - certainly not a civil servant's BOAFP job.

    Certainly there's a case for it. There's also a case against it in terms of the land acquisition/demolitions/impact on environment (though one version of the scheme has the whole lot in a tunnel) - as well as carbon emissions. I don't think if I was the decision maker that's the transport scheme I'd have picked - I'd have gone for a public transport scheme such as, er, HS2 - but it's certainly a valid scheme.
  • I’ve been surprised by the support for smoking abolition on here.

    I must be getting old.

    It's a terrible policy, and a Labour policy to boot. I just didn't have the energy to get into it.

    I don't think the numbers add up either. I believe that smoking is judged to cost the economy something like £17bn through illness. The Government takes £10bn in tax on cigarettes, and the smoking-related illnesses are probably offsetting other, potentially more protracted illnesses (like dementia) that could afflict non-smokers, not to mention longer pension withdrawals and social care costs, so that £17bn won't be 'saved' anyway.
    People dying saves us money may be true, but I’m not certain it should be the basis of decision making.
    To be fair that is different to saying we should do a fiscal analysis to decide, but not include the real costs if they are distasteful.
This discussion has been closed.