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Sunak gets this Radio Manchester interview very wrong – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    edited September 2023

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    Switch to Apple.

    Seriously, it annoys the hell out of me the way Microsoft have forced people to move to a rental licence. I'm surprised the competition authorities haven't looked at it.

    My local IT repair shop guy told me that if I had a valid licence for old Office (can't remember which version) I could go online and download the latest versions for Mac and use that licence key. Remarkably it worked but I am probably on some old frozen version now. (Checks: Excel for Mac v.16.16.27 using a 2016 retail licence - does what I need it to do.)

    I also use Numbers which comes free with macOS of course, which itself comes free with the Mac hardware.
  • Really pissed off now. Still at Luton. 18:30 flight now showing as 21:00. They took our on time plane off for another route and subbed us for an inbound from Belfast not arriving til 19:30. Its on time. yet out flight just slipped back another hour. FFS.

    If you travel regularly, by any means, regular delays of one sort or another are inevitable. Even on my 11km run down to the local town, I will sometimes find myself stuck behind a tractor, or someone who drives so rarely they daren't leave third gear, or a lost tourist.

    It is inevitable and unavoidable.

    Given that you can't do anything about it, why get so annoyed by it? It will make as much difference as raging against the rain.
    Sure - control the controllables. Wouldn't be as bad if tinterweb was more reliable and I could keep track of what is happening.

    Comedy gold - sent a "what's happening" Twix to easyJet. No response by them. But 3 accounts passing themselves off as easyJet asked for my phone number ... lol how dumb do they think I am.

    That made me chuckle. Which is ok
  • Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    The felling of the tree is mind-bendingly despicable. Whoever did it needs to be thrown in the cold North Sea, on a stormy night. From a high cliff. Tied in barbed wire

    But why? What is the possible motive? Drive a long long way at midnight to carefully fell a tree with a heavy chainsaw. Why??

    Can't believe I've never heard of this tree before.
    joking right?
  • I've decided to blame this easyJet chaos on Rishi Sunak. His government is so disjointed it's hard to say whether this actually is their fault or not
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    The felling of the tree is mind-bendingly despicable. Whoever did it needs to be thrown in the cold North Sea, on a stormy night. From a high cliff. Tied in barbed wire

    But why? What is the possible motive? Drive a long long way at midnight to carefully fell a tree with a heavy chainsaw. Why??

    Can't believe I've never heard of this tree before.
    joking right?
    I'd never heard of it before today.
    And while not a great world traveller, I reckon myself in the top ten percentile for how well travelled I am in this country. I know this country better than most. But I didn't know this tree.
    And now it's gone, and I never will.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,092
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    At least it wouldn't have felt any pain.

    Actually, that isn't entirely certain

    "A Group of Scientists Suggest that Plants Feel Pain"

    https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24473/20191218/a-group-of-scientists-suggest-that-plants-feel-pain.htm

    That sycamore probably screamed across the Northumbrian wilds, as it fell to its death. We just couldn't hear it

    Think about that
    Not a nice thought but I think we can reject it. If trees felt pain they would have evolved to be able to defend themselves against it, eg by fleeing an attacker. This would happened by now, given how long they've been around, but it hasn't. Ergo they don't suffer, in that sense, so this one wouldn't have. It's perhaps the only silver lining in this sad dark cloud of a story.
    That’s poor logic, if the right conclusion. Trees do have ways of defending themselves: not against being chopped down, but that’s a very recent threat in evolutionary terms, but against herbivores eating them. One of the things they do in response is send out signals to other trees nearby (who are probably related). As such, trees will need to have a way of sensing damage, which one might describe as “pain”. Of course it’s nothing like the pain we experience, but that’s because we have big brains and trees don’t!
    I could have been joking, I suppose. Let's hope for my sake I was.
    I've found that a good way of "signalling" to the reader that you are joking, is by including something amusing. Works quite well
    I didn't think you'd take me seriously. Apols. You probably feel a bit silly. Not my intention to do that. Let's forget it ever happened. 🙂
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    The felling of the tree is mind-bendingly despicable. Whoever did it needs to be thrown in the cold North Sea, on a stormy night. From a high cliff. Tied in barbed wire

    But why? What is the possible motive? Drive a long long way at midnight to carefully fell a tree with a heavy chainsaw. Why??

    Can't believe I've never heard of this tree before.
    If it was in the south east of England it would have a High Speed Line running to it, a designated station. a third runway and a dual carriageway underpass. Fortunately it is/was in the far north of England, its nearest road was built by the Romans, who still have the contract to maintain it, and its nearest railway borrows its carriages from a museum of antiquities.

    The Bewcastle Cross still stands however, and even remoter. Go and see it before some bright spark pushes it over and uses the stone for their patio. And Hexham still has St Wilfrid's crypt, until someone turns it into a wine bar.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Wasn’t this guy the commander in chief ?

    Trump says electric motors in boats won’t work because if it sinks everyone will get electrocuted.
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1707198014677291383
  • Cookie said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would have thought most Northern redwall voters would rather get their potholes mended and better bus routes than HS2 extended to Manchester

    You are Rishi Sunak and I claim my £5.
    There is a thread on a United forum (united We Stand) I read, behind a paywall.

    Rarely does politics get mentioned, public transport only when discussing how to get to away matches.

    The clear 'fuck off you northern twats' has come through loud and clear here, there is a thread on HS2 being cancelled and total agreement on how clear it is how much the Tories are not remotely on the side of any of the north.

    This is cutting through much more than you'd expect, cutting through not because people are keen on the railway, but as it's the clearest sign you'd ever have to show how little a government gives a shit about the north.
    Kurt and I rarely agree on this forum (even if he does live on the same road *waves amicably*), but I am 100% with him on this. This cuts through to the real world and gets discussed. The government look like a bunch of out of touch southern twats.

    And HYUFD, you're dreaming if you think the North will see any of the money saved.
    Besides. The whole dismal point of Sunak's plan is to give cover for tax cuts. If IHT is really the priority, most of the country can go whistle.

    And then, a few years down the line,when it turns out that something like HS2 is still needed, it will cost even more to resurrect.
    HS2 really isn't needed though
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    edited September 2023
    engineer said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    Well there was one close to there in Roman times.
    Still is. Two in fact. One right next to it, the service and emergency road for the Wall, within the Controlled Zone, now the foot path in large part, and the chariotway a bit further south. Still in use by the BR chariot hogs of today.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,578

    RobD said:

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    I think the standalone licenses are still available.
    I have one.

    And OpenOffice is free.
    I use OpenOffice for all my Word and Excel documents and PDF exports. I don't pay a penny to Microsoft.
    https://www.openoffice.org/download/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    The felling of the tree is mind-bendingly despicable. Whoever did it needs to be thrown in the cold North Sea, on a stormy night. From a high cliff. Tied in barbed wire

    But why? What is the possible motive? Drive a long long way at midnight to carefully fell a tree with a heavy chainsaw. Why??

    Can't believe I've never heard of this tree before.
    joking right?
    I'd never heard of it before today.
    And while not a great world traveller, I reckon myself in the top ten percentile for how well travelled I am in this country. I know this country better than most. But I didn't know this tree.
    And now it's gone, and I never will.
    Just looked up the story on Northumberland Live. In a moment of bathos(?) it sub-heads the story 'Robson Green devastated'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

    And of course Gallowhgate in Newcastle runs along the line of the wall, whiuch continues IIRC across the railway station forecourt. But I think the latter sort of came later, after they'd stopped using the nearest pub or cocina or mansio or baths to sell tickets.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

    Very Roman, build a new town and **** what the NIMBII thought.
  • Keir Starmer is lesser of two evils, says Brexit-voting former Dragon
    Duncan Bannatyne backs Labour leader after Sunak’s ‘terrible’ handling of the economy

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/09/28/keir-starmer-lesser-two-evils-brexit-voting-dragon/ (£££)
  • Nigelb said:

    Wasn’t this guy the commander in chief ?

    Trump says electric motors in boats won’t work because if it sinks everyone will get electrocuted.
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1707198014677291383

    Donald J Trump ladies and gentlemen, the j is for jenius.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

    Very Roman, build a new town and **** what the NIMBII thought.
    As always Shakespeare gets there first:


    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now.
    You all do know this mantle. I remember
    The first time ever Caesar put it on.
    'Twas on a summer's evening in his tent,
    That day he overcame the Nimbii.


  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,650
    edited September 2023
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    I think the standalone licenses are still available.
    I have one.

    And OpenOffice is free.
    I use OpenOffice for all my Word and Excel documents and PDF exports. I don't pay a penny to Microsoft.
    https://www.openoffice.org/download/
    If you want the slightly more actively maintained version, there's also LibreOffice.
    https://www.libreoffice.org/

    Same original code base (which has a complicated history).
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,026
    edited September 2023
    People complain about a lot of things in this country, but our very low rate of firearms deaths is a really good thing about living here.

    Same with our low rate of vehicle accidents.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,028

    geoffw said:

    The iconic tree can't be replaced, but its amazing setting is still there. Perhaps Antony Gormley can conjure up something to put in its place

    That's a brilliant idea. Or Ai WeiWei, who has a thing about trees.

    eg https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/ai-tree-t14630

    There was a metal version at the Yorkshire Sculpture Park for a while.
    John Noakes did a sandblasted glass tree once. Let's have one of those.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited September 2023
    If that sycamore tree is that important to you, get a horticulturist up there to take some cuttings, so you can start the tree all over again (and perhaps some others just like it.)

    If you aren't on your way in a half hour or less, I'll conclude that you don't really care about that tree.

    (Full disclosure: I grew up on a farm where we raised apples, pears, and cherries -- in between two small towns with sawmills. So this whole discussion seems -- let me put this mildly -- a little odd.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078
    Cookie said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would have thought most Northern redwall voters would rather get their potholes mended and better bus routes than HS2 extended to Manchester

    You are Rishi Sunak and I claim my £5.
    There is a thread on a United forum (united We Stand) I read, behind a paywall.

    Rarely does politics get mentioned, public transport only when discussing how to get to away matches.

    The clear 'fuck off you northern twats' has come through loud and clear here, there is a thread on HS2 being cancelled and total agreement on how clear it is how much the Tories are not remotely on the side of any of the north.

    This is cutting through much more than you'd expect, cutting through not because people are keen on the railway, but as it's the clearest sign you'd ever have to show how little a government gives a shit about the north.
    Kurt and I rarely agree on this forum (even if he does live on the same road *waves amicably*), but I am 100% with him on this. This cuts through to the real world and gets discussed. The government look like a bunch of out of touch southern twats.

    And HYUFD, you're dreaming if you think the North will see any of the money saved.
    Sure they will, when they make their annual pilgrimage down south.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    The felling of the tree is mind-bendingly despicable. Whoever did it needs to be thrown in the cold North Sea, on a stormy night. From a high cliff. Tied in barbed wire

    But why? What is the possible motive? Drive a long long way at midnight to carefully fell a tree with a heavy chainsaw. Why??

    Can't believe I've never heard of this tree before.
    joking right?
    No.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469
    viewcode said:

    geoffw said:

    The iconic tree can't be replaced, but its amazing setting is still there. Perhaps Antony Gormley can conjure up something to put in its place

    That's a brilliant idea. Or Ai WeiWei, who has a thing about trees.

    eg https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/ai-tree-t14630

    There was a metal version at the Yorkshire Sculpture Park for a while.
    John Noakes did a sandblasted glass tree once. Let's have one of those.
    We have this one at the end of a harbour wall called the Freedom Tree which was unveiled by the late Queen to commemorate the 60th anniversary of Liberation.



  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,075

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    I think the standalone licenses are still available.
    I have one.

    And OpenOffice is free.
    I use OpenOffice for all my Word and Excel documents and PDF exports. I don't pay a penny to Microsoft.
    https://www.openoffice.org/download/
    If you want the slightly more actively maintained version, there's also LibreOffice.
    https://www.libreoffice.org/

    Same original code base (which has a complicated history).
    Even Google Sheets is fine (and free) for most domestic use cases.

    It doesn't match up to Excel for many corporate use cases, but for personal use I've never had an issue and it all automatically saves to the cloud.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,125

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    Do you not need a license for your work ?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469
    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    He probably tik tokked himself doing it for “bantz”.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078
    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,650
    Talking of world renowned landmarks, it seems something is on fire in Kerch.

    Though sadly it might just be the port rather than the bridge.

    https://nitter.net/Gerashchenko_en/status/1707470397040410964
  • rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would have thought most Northern redwall voters would rather get their potholes mended and better bus routes than HS2 extended to Manchester

    You are Rishi Sunak and I claim my £5.
    There is a thread on a United forum (united We Stand) I read, behind a paywall.

    Rarely does politics get mentioned, public transport only when discussing how to get to away matches.

    The clear 'fuck off you northern twats' has come through loud and clear here, there is a thread on HS2 being cancelled and total agreement on how clear it is how much the Tories are not remotely on the side of any of the north.

    This is cutting through much more than you'd expect, cutting through not because people are keen on the railway, but as it's the clearest sign you'd ever have to show how little a government gives a shit about the north.
    Kurt and I rarely agree on this forum (even if he does live on the same road *waves amicably*), but I am 100% with him on this. This cuts through to the real world and gets discussed. The government look like a bunch of out of touch southern twats.

    And HYUFD, you're dreaming if you think the North will see any of the money saved.
    Sure they will, when they make their annual pilgrimage down south.
    Why, is Rishi planning on running guided tours to see his Scrooge McDuck style swimming pool full of money?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,769

    Jeez. The Gambon coverage seems to be 99% bloody Harry Potter.

    He did play a couple of other roles.

    I've got "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover" lined up to watch this weekend.
  • HYUFD said:

    I would have thought most Northern redwall voters would rather get their potholes mended and better bus routes than HS2 extended to Manchester

    This is why I live in London - we get good train services and bus routes and we get our potholes fixed (eventually). Northerners have to pick which one they want - the Tories don't think they deserve to have all of them.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,769

    Also, Luton airport has terrible phone signal and WIFI which comes and goes.

    Good theme tune though

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCYhqYfs8Po

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited September 2023
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    He probably tik tokked himself doing it for “bantz”.
    But that would now be viral on social media

    I suppose he could have confessed but that seems unlikely. My guess is he was snitched
  • Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    "Don't like bring milked" says guy with a cow for his avatar.
  • Jeez. The Gambon coverage seems to be 99% bloody Harry Potter.

    He did play a couple of other roles.

    When Sir John Gielgud died after a distinguished career spaning nearly 8 decades, I remember the headline in The Sun was on the lines of "Actor who played the butler in "Arthur" dies".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

    Very Roman, build a new town and **** what the NIMBII thought.
    As always Shakespeare gets there first:


    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now.
    You all do know this mantle. I remember
    The first time ever Caesar put it on.
    'Twas on a summer's evening in his tent,
    That day he overcame the Nimbii.


    Mark his words.
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,028
    edited September 2023

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/microsoft-365/p/office-home-student-2021/cfq7ttc0h8n8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

    Microsoft moved pretty heavily into software-as-a-service over a decade ago. However you can still do one-off purchases.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
    He knew which way up to hold a chainsaw. My money's on 'no.'
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529

    Jeez. The Gambon coverage seems to be 99% bloody Harry Potter.

    He did play a couple of other roles.

    That is ridiculous. Singing Detective and The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover are what comes to mind.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    Do you not need a license for your work ?
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-subscription-Multiple-multilingual-Download/dp/B08VDSBNB3/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Office+365&qid=1695929942&sr=8-3&th=1

    This is for 6 users @ £72 total so negligible cost if you can share it, and includes Norton.
  • Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    A nearby pub offered a £1.5k bar tab to anyone with information...
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
    He knew which way up to hold a chainsaw. My money's on 'no.'
    Given the nature of a chainsaw, it's not difficult to work out. I was using a chainsaw in my year off earning money for my uni time. Pull thje cord, get the spikes engaged in the bark, and brrrrm down into the wood.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    HYUFD said:

    I would have thought most Northern redwall voters would rather get their potholes mended and better bus routes than HS2 extended to Manchester

    This is why I live in London - we get good train services and bus routes and we get our potholes fixed (eventually). Northerners have to pick which one they want - the Tories don't think they deserve to have all of them.
    Ecept the potholes. They can have all of them as far as London is concerned.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Surprised @BartholomewRoberts hasn't suggested building a road where The Tree was :lol:

    What would be the point?

    I want to see roads linking towns and cities and to support the construction of new towns and cities, and unlocking new housing.

    Not sure Hadrians Wall is a good location for a new town.
    How do you think Newcastle began? Its Roman name was Hadrian's Bridge.
    There is a plan of sorts for 10,000 new houses in south Carlisle, just a couple of miles south of the line of the wall.

    Very Roman, build a new town and **** what the NIMBII thought.
    As always Shakespeare gets there first:


    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now.
    You all do know this mantle. I remember
    The first time ever Caesar put it on.
    'Twas on a summer's evening in his tent,
    That day he overcame the Nimbii.


    Mark his words.
    I’d give Will at least 7 out of 10 for that.
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Sure, but a lot of it is swings and roundabouts. Not sure who has the better deal overall, if I was to live in another city in the UK other than London it would be Manchester.
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Don't be miserable, that's what they contribute to the world.

    We have relatively affordable homes, more space per home, gardens, usable roads and a better quality of life. And we don't have Essex around the corner.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    edited September 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
    He knew which way up to hold a chainsaw. My money's on 'no.'
    Given the nature of a chainsaw, it's not difficult to work out. I was using a chainsaw in my year off earning money for my uni time. Pull thje cord, get the spikes engaged in the bark, and brrrrm down into the wood.
    I realise it is not difficult to work out.

    However, OGH Jr was talking about 'southern extinction warriors.'

    It's a bit like saying 'it's not difficult to work out you should not make known paedophiles school inspectors' and then expecting OFSTED to join the dots.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529
    This sounds quite serious.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b470a3a-178b-4f9a-95af-2d4a59b4c982

    "Sweden is considering using its military to help police in the battle against gang crime, following a sharp increase in deadly shootings and bomb attacks in the Scandinavian country.

    Ulf Kristersson, the centre-right prime minister, told the nation in a televised address that he had called a meeting on Friday with the head of Sweden’s defence forces and the country’s police to discuss how the army could help out.

    “I cannot emphasise enough how serious the situation is. Sweden has never seen anything like it before. No other country in Europe sees anything like it currently,” Kristersson said on Thursday night.

    Police chiefs have said that Sweden is facing its most serious domestic security situation since the second world war as immigrant drug gangs engage in a bloody conflict. Police believe the gangs are increasingly using children to commit the crimes, as those under 18 often go unpunished or receive low sentences from the courts."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Don't be miserable, that's what they contribute to the world.

    We have relatively affordable homes, more space per home, gardens, usable roads and a better quality of life. And we don't have Essex around the corner.
    Unless the 1st Essex Yeomanry go up the M6 on their way to reconquer a rebellious Scotland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    Is there a way to avoid paying Microsoft £79.99 for Office365?

    I used to just pay £200 for Office and I was done for years, until the OS upgraded.

    Don't like being milked.

    "Don't like bring milked" says guy with a cow for his avatar.
    That's a beef cow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078
    viewcode said:

    Coventry student guilty of making IS chemical weapon drone

    A PhD student has been convicted of designing and building a drone for terror group Islamic State (IS) that was capable of delivering a bomb.
    ...
    Officers seized several devices and also found an IS application form which Al-Bared, 27, denied filling in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-66947311

    The real news is that IS has application forms.

    "...With reference to the job specification in the downloaded job pack, please list how you meet each essential and desirable characteristic. Each point is numbered. Statements like "please see CV" or "Please see War Crimes Tribunal" will not be accepted. Please also give the contact details of two terrorists that can vouch for you...."
    Come on guys, this is comment of the week and deserves about 30 likes.
  • Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    Was he live on his OnlyFans site?
  • ydoethur said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Don't be miserable, that's what they contribute to the world.

    We have relatively affordable homes, more space per home, gardens, usable roads and a better quality of life. And we don't have Essex around the corner.
    Unless the 1st Essex Yeomanry go up the M6 on their way to reconquer a rebellious Scotland.
    They'll get stuck trying to get past the M25 first.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,205

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Nigelb said:
    I wonder if Sunak will go for full unitarisation to mitigate the crisis.

    It would be political suicide given how parochial his electorate is,* but it would be entirely in keeping with his obsession about cost over political instincts.

    *I'm a Welshman from the Forest of Dean. That's practically a professional opinion.
  • Nigelb said:
    Indeed. Rishi pledges to fill potholes. Why do we have potholes? Because councils have had to axe their road repairs budget. Why? Because a government of which a certain Mr Sunak was chancellor and now PM has cut council funding almost to nothing.

    So that pothole he is pointing at like a crap councillor? He helped make it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Coventry student guilty of making IS chemical weapon drone

    A PhD student has been convicted of designing and building a drone for terror group Islamic State (IS) that was capable of delivering a bomb.
    ...
    Officers seized several devices and also found an IS application form which Al-Bared, 27, denied filling in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-66947311

    The real news is that IS has application forms.

    "...With reference to the job specification in the downloaded job pack, please list how you meet each essential and desirable characteristic. Each point is numbered. Statements like "please see CV" or "Please see War Crimes Tribunal" will not be accepted. Please also give the contact details of two terrorists that can vouch for you...."
    Come on guys, this is comment of the week and deserves about 30 likes.
    I dunno, I think you're blowing it up out of all proportion.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,650
    edited September 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
    He knew which way up to hold a chainsaw. My money's on 'no.'
    Given the nature of a chainsaw, it's not difficult to work out. I was using a chainsaw in my year off earning money for my uni time. Pull thje cord, get the spikes engaged in the bark, and brrrrm down into the wood.
    Hang on, I'll just trim this bit off by cutting upwards with the top of the saw.

    This branch above my head is a bit annoying, I'll just cut it off so it isn't in the way.

    I'll just push the tree over to make sure it falls the right way.

    Its a bit annoying I can't use the saw one handed, I'll just tape down the handle so I can.

    Who needs furry trousers? PPE is for wimps.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    I’ve got Sweden on my official PB Nazi bingo card. First serious country to go full on far right. Looking good
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    Naaaah

    I've just been to Hatchard's St Pancras to pick up some books for a trip tomorrow

    St Pancras is fucking great. It is the only station in the world I would go to JUST for the station. Everything about it is brilliant, uplifting, vaulting, sleek, glamorous - it is one of the great peaks of global urbanity. It tells you why cities are marvellous.

    One of the revelations, for me, of the last few remarkable years is that there is no way I want to "retire to the country", nor do I want some fucking stupid chalet in Provence, at least not as a permanent home

    I'm gonna do my level best to live me and die me in London (escaping to the country, Bangkok, as and when). THAT is the life
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    Naaaah

    I've just been to Hatchard's St Pancras to pick up some books for a trip tomorrow

    St Pancras is fucking great. It is the only station in the world I would go to JUST for the station. Everything about it is brilliant, uplifting, vaulting, sleek, glamorous - it is one of the great peaks of global urbanity. It tells you why cities are marvellous.

    One of the revelations, for me, of the last few remarkable years is that there is no way I want to "retire to the country", nor do I want some fucking stupid chalet in Provence, at least not as a permanent home

    I'm gonna do my level best to live me and die me in London (escaping to the country, Bangkok, as and when). THAT is the life
    I can see you ending up in Sweden
    Leon said:

    I’ve got Sweden on my official PB Nazi bingo card. First serious country to go full on far right. Looking good

    Sweden today. And people criticise Suella Braverman. PFFF




    https://www.ft.com/content/6b470a3a-178b-4f9a-95af-2d4a59b4c982

    “It is political naivete and cluelessness that has brought us here,” said the Swedish prime minister. “It is an irresponsible immigration policy and failed integration effort that has brought us here. Social exclusion and parallel societies feed the criminal gangs, there they can ruthlessly recruit children and train them as future killers.”
  • Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    Not just the cities, but all the scattered towns. Pride beating having the financial means to project that pride into the future.

    It's Audrey Forbes-Hamilton vs. Richard DeVere again.
  • ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:
    I wonder if Sunak will go for full unitarisation to mitigate the crisis.

    It would be political suicide given how parochial his electorate is,* but it would be entirely in keeping with his obsession about cost over political instincts.

    *I'm a Welshman from the Forest of Dean. That's practically a professional opinion.
    What happens to the places that already are unitaries? Havering isn't at S114 yet, but has just concluded that it's looming.

    If a council's income (government grant and capped council tax) and expenditure (statutory services like social care) are both largely out of their hands, what exactly are local councillors meant to do?
  • Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    Not just the cities, but all the scattered towns. Pride beating having the financial means to project that pride into the future.

    It's Audrey Forbes-Hamilton vs. Richard DeVere again.
    The Ruhr transport network, connecting cities in Germany, imagine a fraction of this in northern England

    https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://external-preview.redd.it/wS_AqZduKafDEa0ErEuM_zqA48TT8FtWSwqyENBwB3A.jpg?s=6b52b14daf69b5f24bf437052abfff83cc170cbf
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Mortimer said:

    148grss said:

    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.

    I don't agree.

    Johnson made people who often don't think very deeply about politics (and I meant this utterly non-pejoratively, I think we overthink it most of the time here on pb) that he was 'on their side'.

    It wasn't about money, it was about not appearing to be an identikit PPE clone.

    I think you're both right. Johnson is a good entertainer, as long as you haven't seen enough to get tired of it. And he promised to spend money on the north and not ignore it - a new message from a Tory that won him an audience. I think a lot of Red Wall voters grew tired of his shtick though, and can also see that 'levelling up' was just an empty phrase. A message that is amplified every time Sunak opens his mouth.
    Johnson is seriously better-rated by the environmental/animal welfare people (I'm not just saying that now he's not PM - I said it when he was). Sunak appears to have no interest in any of that.
    Fully expect the 2024 Tory manifesto to include:

    • Ritual burning of a Wicker Cyclist in every town once a month.
    • Forced tube-feeding vegetarians foie gras, like a sort of meta-goose
    • deport all vegans to the USSR
    • Tax breaks for leaving your car running overnight
    • Injecting all asylum seekers and (10% of all foreign visitors regardless of status) with legionella
    • Leaving the UN to set up a special British UN where we decide what to do without foreign meddling
    • Declaration of trains, taxation in general, trade unions, public sector workers, radio 3, selected buildings, Strictly Come Dancing, foreign literature, women in sport and ‘socialists’ (anyone to the left of Sir Edward Leigh) to be “WOKE” and subject to a daily hate broadcast on the BBC and chanted in primary school assemblies.
    • Speaking of which, GB News to be merged with the BBC (now the GBBC) to provide a single TV channel presented entirely by Conservative MPs.
    • mandatory maximum distances for travelling in anything other than a car or helicopter
    • extend use of the the ICE to power not just vehicles, but also PCs, kettles and tumble dryers

    Tbh there are more but you get the gist.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    A Guardian article about the Swedish crime crisis which manages, heroically, to go without ever mentioning "migrants", "migration", "immigrants", "race", "ethnicity". Not one of those words features

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/28/sweden-records-record-high-number-of-shooting-deaths-in-september
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,963
    ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529
    edited September 2023
    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"




    "Three dead in Sweden after shootings and explosion linked to feud between criminal gangs
    Two shootings have brought the number killed in gun violence in the country to 11 so far this month - making it the deadliest since records began in 2016. The explosion is the third to happen this week."

    https://news.sky.com/story/three-dead-in-sweden-after-shootings-and-explosion-linked-to-feud-between-criminal-gangs-12971598
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,562
    edited September 2023
    ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited September 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"

    This is not a new story. Sweden has been clearly fucked by immigration for several years - hence their votes at elex. Maybe the dam on reporting it is now breaking
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    Also, they need to speak in a more comprehensible way.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"

    This is not a new story. Sweden has been clearly fucked by immigration for several years - hence their votes at elex. Maybe the dam on reporting it is now breaking
    I know it's not new, but papers like the Independent didn't use to report it much.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited September 2023
    I am here, literally, PRAYING that the 16 year old arrested for felling the Sycamore Gap sycamore is a Somali, dinghy-arriving, what3words using, Liz Truss adoring, Marcus Smith-at-full back-approving lab leak denier, born of Albanian-cab-using aliens coupling with Woke HS2 executives, in a flat so expensive it proves London is BACK
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    Also, they need to speak in a more comprehensible way.
    Wow. What a prick.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"

    This is not a new story. Sweden has been clearly fucked by immigration for several years - hence their votes at elex. Maybe the dam on reporting it is now breaking
    I know it's not new, but papers like the Independent didn't use to report it much.
    I agree. Even the Guardian is forced to report it, with evident and enormous reluctance. I see comments are disabled on every article
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"

    This is not a new story. Sweden has been clearly fucked by immigration for several years - hence their votes at elex. Maybe the dam on reporting it is now breaking
    I know it's not new, but papers like the Independent didn't use to report it much.
    I remember it being discussed a decade ago when I was in Sweden. It's extraordinary how much they've fucked it, especially compared to Norway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,078

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    Also, they need to speak in a more comprehensible way.
    Wow. What a prick.
    FWIW, OGH is from Manchester, and OGH's wife (my mother) is from Newcastle. So I'm the son of Northerners. And it was a joke.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:
    I wonder if Sunak will go for full unitarisation to mitigate the crisis.

    It would be political suicide given how parochial his electorate is,* but it would be entirely in keeping with his obsession about cost over political instincts.

    *I'm a Welshman from the Forest of Dean. That's practically a professional opinion.
    What happens to the places that already are unitaries? Havering isn't at S114 yet, but has just concluded that it's looming.

    If a council's income (government grant and capped council tax) and expenditure (statutory services like social care) are both largely out of their hands, what exactly are local councillors meant to do?
    Kirklees is battling the possibility of S114.

    It's non trivial for the resident, Birmingham I hear is at monthly throwaway waste collection, the dumps barely open and so on.

    Is anyone on here in an S114 area. What is it like?
  • 👍 England in the Quarter Finals 👍
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529
    Nigelb said:
    Surely it can't be that difficult to keep spending under control.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    Leon said:

    I am here, literally, PRAYING that the 16 year old arrested for felling the Sycamore Gap sycamore is a Somali, dinghy-arriving, what3words using, Liz Truss adoring, Marcus Smith-at-full back-approving lab leak denier, born of Albanian-cab-using aliens coupling with Woke HS2 executives, in a flat so expensive it proves London is BACK

    In terms Robin Hood might understand, you want it to be a Sicko Moor?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    It doesn't really. Genuinely, we'd rather co-operate. We do co-operate quite well. Of all the things holding the north back, inter-municipal backstabbing isn't really one of them.
    I mean, there are football rivalries. But football fans are dicks. (I was at an U13 girls' match last weekend, and the absue the other teams' parents were giving our players was gobsmacking.)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,610
    Lots of whataboutery around the Sycamore. "What about Michael Gambon". "There are other trees". Is it a lack of imagination, or just edge-lordism?

    A useful lesson for me, I suppose. A significant proportion of the population finds zero value in our heritage, natural environment, or public realm.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    Anyway - entertaining match between Samoa and Japan this evening. I said Japan could do it. And I also said Samoa would get a player sent off.
    If I were Steve Borthwick I might be looking to send out a team based on how little I minded those players getting injured against Samoa.
  • theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    If you want overcrowded population densities, get on the M6 and move down South.

    Its a terrible, terrible idea. Thank goodness we don't have that crap up here.

    What we need is investment, but not density. This is the 2020s, when a significant proportion of people can work from home and where office skyscrapers are increasingly outdated monoliths.

    When firms want investment they don't just want people, they also often need space. A place to put any machinery or equipment or infrastructure that they require. Which is not in a city.

    Yes we need to update our infrastructure and we should have a network of motorways to get from any town to any other town, rather than forcing everyone onto the M6 if they want to go North/South, but there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to piss away and sacrifice that which makes the North so special.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    I guess it never occurred to Sunak that one of the reasons so many people in the North use their cars to get around is because public transport in most places is so shite.
    Still, Get Potholes Done.

    You've cause and effect the entirely the wrong way round here. Up north the road system mostly works, so almost everybody just drives, because it's the most convenient option. They could build a high speed rail line from next doors garden to outside the gate of work with trains every ten minutes and give me the tickets for free, and I'd probably still mostly drive to work - the train won't be much faster, the car is better for carrying luggage (I've a lot of tools in the boot that come in handy now and again), and crucially I'm not at the mercy of the rail network if something goes wrong and there's no train home for whatever reason.
    Because there's little demand, such public transport service as there is tends to be grim. There's no easy cure for this - we could spray subsidies everywhere (bearing in mind it's most quite heavily subsidised anyway), but then we'd have lots of shinny new public transport that nobody uses either.

    Down in the SE the road network doesn't really work because there are too many people and not enough roads for them, so they are forced onto public transport. This isn't a sign that the public transport network of the south is a success story to be imposed on the north. It's more another sign that the south is a stinking dump.
    I commuted in from Selby to Halifax by car for seven years in the 2000s and I can tell you the the road system mostly just did not work then. I am not sure what has been done to improve it since.
    You make my point for me. That's a 40 mile commute each way across one of the busiest bits of the north and you did it regularly for 7 years, so it clearly did work.

    Doing a 40 mile commute by road in the south east is almost impossible.

    Southerners look at me like I've two heads when I explain I drive 23 miles each way work every day. Then I tell them it's a been a slow run if it took 30 minutes and their heads explode.
    If I drive daytime my first mile is normally 10-15 minutes.....
    No doubt because you have excellent public transport which enables the area to be heavily populated, trains & tube carry far greater volumes of people than roads ever could.

    That heavily populated area enables high levels of economic activity which would otherwise be impossible as the agglomeration effect would not be remotely as strong.

    We're stuck with low growth, low population density, poor transport and no hope of greatly improving any of it in the north.
    Low population density is the best thing about the north - the problem with the south is it's wildly overpopulated. Across the planet, we've about 4 acres per human of land area - packing them together in cities like battery hens is foul madness.
    and the north will always struggle economically if no where, not everywhere, has the ability to grow population densities required to have sufficient skilled staff who can work in those top end roles making local knowledge based companies a success.

    The investment will just continue to flow to Milan, Munich and Marseille over Manchester for ever more.
    Yes, and the madness is that the North has a combined urban population to match London (and anywhere in Europe). Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield. Combine them all into a megacity with densely interlinked transport - and then watch it boom

    All the ingredients are there. Great universities, great heritage, great sport, great culture, great concentrations of people. DO IT

    But this requires each individual city to get over itself
    It doesn't really. Genuinely, we'd rather co-operate. We do co-operate quite well. Of all the things holding the north back, inter-municipal backstabbing isn't really one of them.
    I mean, there are football rivalries. But football fans are dicks. (I was at an U13 girls' match last weekend, and the absue the other teams' parents were giving our players was gobsmacking.)
    Good. This needs to happen

    It is one of my forlorn, almost-certain-to-be-disappointed hopes that Starmer's Labour may begin to address this

    Coz the Tories talk about it, and do fuck all
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,316
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More on this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-gang-violence-child-soldiers-bombs-b2420265.html

    "Child soldiers, executions, bombs: Deadly gang violence turns Sweden into a ‘war zone’

    Sweden is in the grip of a gun crime crisis. In 2022, there were 391 shootings in the county, and escalating gang violence has seen 11 people killed in September alone. ‘It’s like a war zone’, one witness tells Jakob Illeborg, who finds fear and loathing of foreigners rife in the new gun murder capital of Europe"

    This is not a new story. Sweden has been clearly fucked by immigration for several years - hence their votes at elex. Maybe the dam on reporting it is now breaking
    I know it's not new, but papers like the Independent didn't use to report it much.
    I remember it being discussed a decade ago when I was in Sweden. It's extraordinary how much they've fucked it, especially compared to Norway.
    I was amazed that during the migrant crisis of 2015, the Swedish government wanted more migrants to come to Sweden.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    edited September 2023

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    How did they catch the Tree Scrote so quick?

    Either he accidentally left behind his passport or someone informed. Any other options?

    So, was he a pasty Southern Extinction Warrior?
    He knew which way up to hold a chainsaw. My money's on 'no.'
    Given the nature of a chainsaw, it's not difficult to work out. I was using a chainsaw in my year off earning money for my uni time. Pull thje cord, get the spikes engaged in the bark, and brrrrm down into the wood.
    Hang on, I'll just trim this bit off by cutting upwards with the top of the saw.

    This branch above my head is a bit annoying, I'll just cut it off so it isn't in the way.

    I'll just push the tree over to make sure it falls the right way.

    Its a bit annoying I can't use the saw one handed, I'll just tape down the handle so I can.

    Who needs furry trousers? PPE is for wimps.
    Even 45 years later, that made my blood go cold - especially the first sentence.

    I was wearing proper headgear, gloves and boots, though. The mistake I made (Not cutting up!)_ was to keep cutting when the saw stopped cutting ... I still have, somewhere, the stone with a notch cut into it.

This discussion has been closed.