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Sunak gets this Radio Manchester interview very wrong – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
Sunak gets this Radio Manchester interview very wrong – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak repeatedly refuses to answer questions from BBC Manchester about whether he will scrap HS2 to the city and just talks about filling potholes instead pic.twitter.com/ncqsMknxxX

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Comments

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Not up to it!

    Oh, and first.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    FPT:

    Vaguely on topic, Sunak's round of local radio station interviews this morning was excruciating - and not just the evasiveness on HS2. He really can't think on his feet, and just churns out unconvincing, pre-prepared lines to take.

    I really think he could bomb completely under the pressure of a GE campaign.

    Absolutely agree.

    Electoral dud. Needs to be replaced next month....
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    148grss said:

    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.

    I don't agree.

    Johnson made people who often don't think very deeply about politics (and I meant this utterly non-pejoratively, I think we overthink it most of the time here on pb) that he was 'on their side'.

    It wasn't about money, it was about not appearing to be an identikit PPE clone.

  • Here's a thing: was the felling of the sycamore a protest against Rishi and his neglect of northern England? Seems odd that it should happen just days after Rishi's HS2 controversy.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,776
    Why doesn't he just say whether he will scrap it or not? He must have decided. His evasivenessivity on the issue makes him sound shifty.

    This interview was an utter catastrophe. (Note: could not be bothered to listen to it.)
  • Rishi is “ok” as a media performer - not terrible.
    It’s just that he ineptly comes up with shit ideas which can’t be defended (or even in this case, publicly disclosed).
  • Mortimer said:

    148grss said:

    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.

    I don't agree.

    Johnson made people who often don't think very deeply about politics (and I meant this utterly non-pejoratively, I think we overthink it most of the time here on pb) that he was 'on their side'.

    It wasn't about money, it was about not appearing to be an identikit PPE clone.

    I think you're both right. Johnson is a good entertainer, as long as you haven't seen enough to get tired of it. And he promised to spend money on the north and not ignore it - a new message from a Tory that won him an audience. I think a lot of Red Wall voters grew tired of his shtick though, and can also see that 'levelling up' was just an empty phrase. A message that is amplified every time Sunak opens his mouth.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Mortimer said:

    148grss said:

    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.

    I don't agree.

    Johnson made people who often don't think very deeply about politics (and I meant this utterly non-pejoratively, I think we overthink it most of the time here on pb) that he was 'on their side'.

    It wasn't about money, it was about not appearing to be an identikit PPE clone.

    I think that is part of it, sure. But outside of that, where he differed on policy most with Tories (and what essentially got a lot of backbenchers annoyed with him) was his willingness and desire to splash cash. The country has been tightening its belt my entire adult life, and we were told it was to make sure we could have a stable economy for the future. Well, to many people, it is the future - and the stable economy isn't here and we're still being told to tighten our belts. Talk to anyone on the doorstep and what they will moan about is the waiting time for their GP, or the schools, or the quality of the roads, etc. etc. Not culture war nonsense, but stuff that requires just hiring more people (which in turn requires paying more people competitively) to work in the state system.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Rishi is “ok” as a media performer - not terrible.
    It’s just that he ineptly comes up with shit ideas which can’t be defended (or even in this case, publicly disclosed).

    Agreed. He’s not terrible - and he’s possibly better than Starmer (not hard) because Starmer is so painfully boring and Sunak’s a bit chirpier

    But the Tories are in such a hole they need a brilliant charismatic leader to save them and Sunak certainly isn’t that

    Still, could be worse, we could be America with Biden Trump 2.0
  • Bring back Truss.

    Sunak doesn't get the North.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
  • Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Twitter is often wrong.
  • Richardr said:

    Which other country our size would have the Prime Minister [or equivalent] being in charge of pot holes, and going on local radio to speak about what he is doing about pot holes, whilst refusing to talk about anything strategic?

    I made this point about Bully XL a week or so ago, but didn’t get much support.

    I think it’s “normal” for the UK, but bloody weird if you live outside it.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568

    Mortimer said:

    148grss said:

    I think the Tories don't get why Johnson won the Red wall - they put it down to Brexit and culture war stuff, but I think more importantly is that Johnson was the first Tory PM who promised to turn on the money tap and spend money on needed infrastructure. The mini budget of Truss and the Treasury straight jacket on Sunak are not popular with these voters. If a Tory promised tax and spend (as much as many Tories here hate that) alongside pro business and culture war stuff, I think they'd do a lot better specifically amongst those voters. When Tories don't promise to spend money, they drift back to "naturally" voting Labour.

    I don't agree.

    Johnson made people who often don't think very deeply about politics (and I meant this utterly non-pejoratively, I think we overthink it most of the time here on pb) that he was 'on their side'.

    It wasn't about money, it was about not appearing to be an identikit PPE clone.

    I think you're both right. Johnson is a good entertainer, as long as you haven't seen enough to get tired of it. And he promised to spend money on the north and not ignore it - a new message from a Tory that won him an audience. I think a lot of Red Wall voters grew tired of his shtick though, and can also see that 'levelling up' was just an empty phrase. A message that is amplified every time Sunak opens his mouth.
    Johnson is seriously better-rated by the environmental/animal welfare people (I'm not just saying that now he's not PM - I said it when he was). Sunak appears to have no interest in any of that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Is there nothing that uninformed Twitter trolls do not know?
  • Sunak is proving belatedly that the Tory members made the correct choice in the first place.

    Truss made a terrible mistake with the mini budget, but then course corrected replacing Kwarteng with Hunt, but by then people were done with her despite the fact that economically Sunak hasn't changed much from Truss. But she'd be 1000% better as PM than Sunak.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    "Potholes" is the standard boomer response to any proposed investment in cycle infrastructure, trams, buses, HS2, pavements...

    I think Sunak has been getting data from Facebook, which is where this cohort are online.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited September 2023
    Daily Mail becomes part of the cancel culture by terminating Dan Wootton's contract following the Laurence Fox/Ava Evans scandal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    More likely the other way round.

    Could still be a planning dispute etc. Need not be local - English Heritage and the National Park cover large areas.
  • Sinn Fein are now approaching the combined total of FF and FG.

    image
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Eabhal said:

    "Potholes" is the standard boomer response to any proposed investment in cycle infrastructure, trams, buses, HS2, pavements...

    I think Sunak has been getting data from Facebook, which is where this cohort are online.

    If anyone's going to notice potholes it's the cyclists.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    If a member of one's own family , or a prominent local figure, dies, one feels it more keenly than if one reads a thousand deaths in the Congo.

    That's simply a part of the human condition.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Long drive from Islington
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Wasn’t there polling that the main reason for Labours dismal 2019 performance was more in relation to Corbyn than either Brexit or Johnson .

    Corbyn also cost the Lib Dems votes in the Blue Wall by frightening some Tories into not voting for them.

    The Tories had the perfect alignment of factors in 2019 that led to that large majority .
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,078

    Bring back Truss.

    Sunak doesn't get the North.

    Yes, it's weird, because he's the first PM we've had with a northern constituency since Blair. (And don't go saying Richmond's atypical; Richmond is just as much a part of the north as Manchester Central).

    But you're right. Cameron got the North. (Or at least Osborne did, and told him about it). Boris got the North, or at least saw to it that he seemed to get it. Truss got the north. May probably didn't get the north but was too canny not to get caught out not getting it most of the time. Sunak seems to see the North as a far suburb of London.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Knowing people who are part of JSO / XR - they would never do this. It just isn't their schtick. I assume this is the act of a local landowner annoyed at tourists parking on their land to go walk up to this tree and there was a last straw moment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    Daily Mail becomes part of the cancel culture by terminating Dan Wootton's contract following the Laurence Fox/Ava Evans scandal.

    Obvs very woke.

    What will the Speccy do?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Twitter is often wrong.
    Indeed. Hence my emojis

    However the more I think about it the more this makes sense. I can’t see a “mad local landowner” being mad enough to do this. Or stupid enough

    It’s not like the Crooked House where there is some selfish gain accrued

    So my guess is either an ecological statement or sheer brutal vandalism for the lolz
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    So humid and so much calmer that the ****ing midges have started coming in and reading PB with me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I actually kinda hope it is a “mad local landowner” because then

    1. They’re more likely to be caught and

    2. We will have someone to put in a medieval jail for 390 years
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,375
    edited September 2023
    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Though we don't chop down trees much, net, in this country. In fact I am pretty certain we have more trees now in this country than we did a century ago and that is a trend that has continued for a very long time now.

    Eabhal would be pleased to know a big part of that reason is roads. Tree lined roads tend to be a big part of tree planting, indeed at one stage in the 70s when we were last investing in our infrastructure sufficiently I believe there were concerns the country was running out of trees to plant to go with the roads.

    Want to get to Net Zero? More roads helps with that, since the cars on the roads will be running off zero-emission electricity within a few years, while more trees alongside more roads means net negative emissions rather than net zero. Win/win, we get infrastructure, the planet gets saved, who wouldn't love that?
  • Daily Mail becomes part of the cancel culture by terminating Dan Wootton's contract following the Laurence Fox/Ava Evans scandal.

    Dan Wootton had that strange story about him not long ago, so perhaps it's a case of two strikes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Knowing people who are part of JSO / XR - they would never do this. It just isn't their schtick. I assume this is the act of a local landowner annoyed at tourists parking on their land to go walk up to this tree and there was a last straw moment.
    Incredibly dumb if so. And vile. Sling them in a dungeon and chuck the key in the North Sea
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128
    Carnyx said:

    So humid and so much calmer that the ****ing midges have started coming in and reading PB with me.

    A question that I have often asked - in the midge belt, why don't people install insect screening, as in the US?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Sean_F said:

    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.

    Then why are they going back to SKS's Labour, of all things?
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500
    Dura_Ace said:

    Why doesn't he just say whether he will scrap it or not? He must have decided. His evasivenessivity on the issue makes him sound shifty.

    This interview was an utter catastrophe. (Note: could not be bothered to listen to it.)

    It must be that he's hoping to get the kudos for a "surprise" announcement that Phase 2b (aka the core of Northern Powerhouse Rail) is going ahead, whilst scrapping everything else that's not already in progress.

    I can't see any other reason why he'd be so desperately determined to dither at this point.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Though we don't chop down trees much, net, in this country. In fact I am pretty certain we have more trees now in this country than we did a century ago and that is a trend that has continued for a very long time now.

    Eabhal would be pleased to know a big part of that reason is roads. Tree lined roads tend to be a big part of tree planting, indeed at one stage in the 70s when we were last investing in our infrastructure sufficiently I believe there were concerns the country was running out of trees to plant to go with the roads.

    Want to get to Net Zero? More roads helps with that, since the cars on the roads will be running off zero-emission electricity within a few years, while more trees alongside more roads means net negative emissions rather than net zero. Win/win, we get infrastructure, the planet gets saved, who wouldn't love that?
    More roads = more trees.

    I think we all knew your response to the Sycamore would be unhinged, but that is quite something.

    Leon - this isn't you playing with AI is it?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    edited September 2023
    148grss said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.

    Then why are they going back to SKS's Labour, of all things?
    Part of an overall trend. They will probably trend back after realising that Labour don't offer any real improvement over the Tories but do offer a lot more pointless bossiness.
  • 148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Yes, it is rather ironic that the tears and outrage on this site over the Sycamore Gap tree are being led by the individual with the clown-sized carbon footprint.
  • Farooq said:

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Though we don't chop down trees much, net, in this country. In fact I am pretty certain we have more trees now in this country than we did a century ago and that is a trend that has continued for a very long time now.

    Eabhal would be pleased to know a big part of that reason is roads. Tree lined roads tend to be a big part of tree planting, indeed at one stage there were concerns the country was running out of trees to plant to go with the roads.

    Want to get to Net Zero? More roads helps with that, since the cars on the roads will be running off zero-emission electricity within a few years, while more trees alongside more roads means net negative emissions rather than net zero. Win/win, we get infrastructure, the planet gets saved, who wouldn't love that?
    So you're saying the public sector has done a great job?
    I'm a liberal, not an an anarchist. There's a time and a place for the public sector.

    Certain things need to be done by the public sector, and those that there are should be done well.

    The biggest problem with the public sector is when it tries to get involved with everything and becomes jack of all trades, master of none.

    Do less, but do it well. That's my philosophy.

    Public infrastructure, along with public defence, public security, public education and public healthcare should be the primary responsibilities of the state. The problem is the state too often isn't doing what it should be doing and is cutting investment in infrastructure to feed day to day expenditure on other stuff which is completely self-defeating.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,727
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    I actually kinda hope it is a “mad local landowner” because then

    1. They’re more likely to be caught and

    2. We will have someone to put in a medieval jail for 390 years

    Cutting down a protected tree? A fine if you are lucky.


    Happens all the time pre-planning applications.

    Likely to get pulled up on ecology grounds? Clear the site before applying. Never mind the Tree Preservation Order. Crooked House but with vegetation.

    We're currently having fun with a solar farm application on a local wildlife site (unimproved grassland with rig and furrow).

    They thought it would be a good idea to just plough it up first to avoid any objections.
  • Sinn Fein are now approaching the combined total of FF and FG.

    There's no reason that couldn't happen here if the Labour Party don't deliver for their base in the next parliament.

    FPTP doesn't provide absolute protection.
  • Sean_F said:

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    If a member of one's own family , or a prominent local figure, dies, one feels it more keenly than if one reads a thousand deaths in the Congo.

    That's simply a part of the human condition.
    Matt Damon delivered that point beautifully in Interstellar.
  • Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,727
    edited September 2023

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Yes, it is rather ironic that the tears and outrage on this site over the Sycamore Gap tree are being led by the individual with the clown-sized carbon footprint.
    The tree was a cultural icon, not an ecological one. It wasn't even a native species.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    FPT: On Geoengineering: Some years ago, one of the local Indian tribes, which depends on fishing, proposed an experiment in fertilizing the oceans with iron. (The idea is to encourage the growth of phytoplankton, which will absorb CO2 -- and feed fish.)

    As I recall, they were blocked from doing so by a lawsuit. I thought at the time, and still think, that it sounds like an experiment worth trying.
  • The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684
    Sean_F said:

    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.

    This is true.

    In Scotland they always voted Labour (since Thatcher, at any rate) right up until the point they) didn't. Labour took the block Scottish vote for granted.

    The red wall always voted Labour, right up until they didn't. Labour took the block red wall vote for granted.

    The Tories had their shot with the Red Wall and have spent the last few years ballsing it up. It was never going to be easy to reverse generations of London first, and the devil take the rest, but HS2 is at least something. And now it seems its not.

    Its not clear red wallers are flocking back to Labour because of Labour. I sense its a get rid of the gobshites we have now time. I think the changes in the Red Wall will lead to some interesting politics going forward.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500

    Rishi is “ok” as a media performer - not terrible.
    It’s just that he ineptly comes up with shit ideas which can’t be defended (or even in this case, publicly disclosed).

    He's fine when giving speeches, especially informal ones. I bet he's great at Powerpoint presentations.

    But today? Most of the questions could reasonably have been foreseen, but he didn't have answers for them. He didn't even stall or bluster - he got irritated, talked over the interviewers, and complained that they were asking the wrong questions.
  • Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Though we don't chop down trees much, net, in this country. In fact I am pretty certain we have more trees now in this country than we did a century ago and that is a trend that has continued for a very long time now.

    Eabhal would be pleased to know a big part of that reason is roads. Tree lined roads tend to be a big part of tree planting, indeed at one stage in the 70s when we were last investing in our infrastructure sufficiently I believe there were concerns the country was running out of trees to plant to go with the roads.

    Want to get to Net Zero? More roads helps with that, since the cars on the roads will be running off zero-emission electricity within a few years, while more trees alongside more roads means net negative emissions rather than net zero. Win/win, we get infrastructure, the planet gets saved, who wouldn't love that?
    More roads = more trees.

    I think we all knew your response to the Sycamore would be unhinged, but that is quite something.

    Leon - this isn't you playing with AI is it?
    I have no idea what 'the Sycamore' refers to, I've been out today and haven't seen whatever news that is, but what I said is a matter of fact.

    There are more trees today than there were a century ago in the UK. Don't trust me? Ask the Woodland Trust.

    Part of that is deliberately planting woodlands, but a big part as well is building roads.

    As I've said I live in a new town that is being built, one of not enough we need more, which was just over a decade ago farmland. All the roads that are built, all the housing estates etc are tree lined. There are trees everywhere, which is deliberate and has been part of how we build infrastructure for a long time, just as much as the LTNs you love.

    Replacing farmed fields with developed new towns, roads etc means not just more infrastructure and more housing for people to live in, buildings for businesses etc, but much, much more trees, not fewer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I actually kinda hope it is a “mad local landowner” because then

    1. They’re more likely to be caught and

    2. We will have someone to put in a medieval jail for 390 years

    Cutting down a protected tree? A fine if you are lucky.


    Happens all the time pre-planning applications.

    Likely to get pulled up on ecology grounds? Clear the site before applying. Never mind the Tree Preservation Order. Crooked House but with vegetation.

    We're currently having fun with a solar farm application on a local wildlife site (unimproved grassland with rig and furrow).

    They thought it would be a good idea to just plough it up first to avoid any objections.
    The public fury over this will ensure than any culprit - if unmasked - will face a lot more than a “fine”
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    148grss said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.

    Then why are they going back to SKS's Labour, of all things?
    I don't think that all of them will go back. And, in most of those that do go back, the swing will probably be below average.

    Conversely, you have seats like Edgbaston, Canterbury, Putney, that are probably never going back to the Conservatives. Just as working class homeowners in the Red Wall realised they were Conservatives, so middle class graduates in those other seats realised they were socialists.
  • The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    An extraordinary and genuine coincidence

    Just now:

    “Man, 44, and woman, 34, arrested on suspicion of arson plot after Crooked House pub fire”

    https://x.com/lbc/status/1707384942664020324?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Yes, it is rather ironic that the tears and outrage on this site over the Sycamore Gap tree are being led by the individual with the clown-sized carbon footprint.
    The tree was a cultural icon, not an ecological one. It wasn't even a native species.
    What do we mean by native though?

    Even Brown Hare were brought over by the Romans.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    edited September 2023

    Sinn Fein are now approaching the combined total of FF and FG.

    SF/FF government is the most likely outcome. Micheál Martin remains bafflingly relatively popular.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    So the ****** of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD
  • Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    Long drive from Islington
    Even further on a bicycle with only lentils to power the legs. I also hope they used a green energy powered chainsaw

    On a serious note, whoever was responsible is a complete tosser. Disgraceful vandalism
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The anger at the closure of mines declined over time and Red Wall voters that voted Leave are more likely socially right and economically left .

    Labour was able to hold that coalition together with its more metropolitan liberal voters as the economics managed to trump social attitudes in the Red Wall .

    That changed as the Tories under Johnson looked like they were going to address the economic asks of the Red Wall.

    Labours recovery there is down I think to a combination of factors . Leveling up hasn’t happened , Starmer is seen as more patriotic and a safer pair of hands on defence .

    I don’t see Starmer losing many Red Wall voters if he wants a closer EU relationship, as long as that is seen as bringing economic benefits and re-join is ruled out .

    Brexit hasn’t delivered for the Red Wall . For that reason the Tories attacking Labour on the EU just isn’t going to resonate as it might have a few years back .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    Carnyx said:

    So humid and so much calmer that the ****ing midges have started coming in and reading PB with me.

    A question that I have often asked - in the midge belt, why don't people install insect screening, as in the US?
    This isn't the midge belt, and it's actually been unusual to have them around so late, so it hasn't been an issue till the evidentluy intelligent insects came and sat on the screen. Only one or two, but boy they are distracting in more than one sense.
    I
    'm not an inhabitant of, say, Rùm, but my reaction is that insect screening isn't much needed as one wouldn't leav e the doors open in midgy weather. However, from my experience of when one could stay at Kinloch Castle there, having it on the bathroom window opening bit would be a very good idea in the late summer. One does not like midges when one has just had a bath or is brushing one's teeth shirtless.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
  • Cookie said:

    Bring back Truss.

    Sunak doesn't get the North.

    Yes, it's weird, because he's the first PM we've had with a northern constituency since Blair. (And don't go saying Richmond's atypical; Richmond is just as much a part of the north as Manchester Central).

    But you're right. Cameron got the North. (Or at least Osborne did, and told him about it). Boris got the North, or at least saw to it that he seemed to get it. Truss got the north. May probably didn't get the north but was too canny not to get caught out not getting it most of the time. Sunak seems to see the North as a far suburb of London.
    Sunak cares more about Northern California than Northern England.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Typical. Unbelievable how many people think that southern Northumberland is part of Scotland.
  • The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Impressive if a midgy (aka Meanbh-chuileag) could do that!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,727
    Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Yes, it is rather ironic that the tears and outrage on this site over the Sycamore Gap tree are being led by the individual with the clown-sized carbon footprint.
    The tree was a cultural icon, not an ecological one. It wasn't even a native species.
    What do we mean by native though?

    Even Brown Hare were brought over by the Romans.
    Yeah, I know. White hares only! Except in the Peak District where they were introduced...


    There's actually some discussion going on about Sycamore at the moment. It was previously enemy number one in native woodland and a management plan would normally suggest its removal over time.

    However, it does well in hot conditions and might actually survive better than some native trees given climate change.

    Same with Beech.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
  • Carnyx said:

    The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Typical. Unbelievable how many people think that southern Northumberland is part of Scotland.
    It was probably a raiding party
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Also from previous thread: In the US, the last step in becoming a doctor is an "internship" at a hospital. (I have been dubious about this sytem for years, since it looks more like an extended period of "hazing", rather than actual training -- and results in measurable harm to patients.)

    A year or so ago, I learned that about 1 in 10 would-be doctors who had completed their studies were unable to find a hospital that would accept them as interns. Which meant they typically had enormous debts, but no way to become a doctor so they could pay them off. Unless there is something I don't know about that 10 percent, this strikes me as both wasteful, and terribly unfair.
  • Carnyx said:

    The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Typical. Unbelievable how many people think that southern Northumberland is part of Scotland.
    Every fool knows Hadrian's Wall is the border between Scotland & England.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"

    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    Carnyx said:

    The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Typical. Unbelievable how many people think that southern Northumberland is part of Scotland.
    Every fool knows Hadrian's Wall is the border between Scotland & England.
    Exactly what I meant.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
    I’m just pointing out the sentence. They may of course be acquitted
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss said:

    I find the human mind very interesting.

    Chopping down one old tree is a tragedy (which I agree with).
    Chopping down lots of old trees, in the Amazon or our own forests, is just doing business.

    Like, this feels indicative of why we aren't dealing with the ecological and climate crisis we're in - people generally cannot and do not think about impacts of things at scale.

    Though we don't chop down trees much, net, in this country. In fact I am pretty certain we have more trees now in this country than we did a century ago and that is a trend that has continued for a very long time now.

    Eabhal would be pleased to know a big part of that reason is roads. Tree lined roads tend to be a big part of tree planting, indeed at one stage in the 70s when we were last investing in our infrastructure sufficiently I believe there were concerns the country was running out of trees to plant to go with the roads.

    Want to get to Net Zero? More roads helps with that, since the cars on the roads will be running off zero-emission electricity within a few years, while more trees alongside more roads means net negative emissions rather than net zero. Win/win, we get infrastructure, the planet gets saved, who wouldn't love that?
    We have more trees, but they're young - young trees and old trees serve very different roles in ecology and climate change. Older trees literally share nutrients with younger trees to help them grow. Older trees create shade for moss and other plant life to grow with them. Older trees are homes for birds and bats and bugs. Older trees rotting releases nutrients back into the soil and thriving ecosystems for fungi and insects. Young trees take so much more than they give, and if they aren't near older trees have the possibility of reducing soil quality because they suck so much out of the ground without giving back leaf mulch and other deposits that older trees create.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
    I’m just pointing out the sentence. They may of course be acquitted
    You did, er, say "going down". Or do I misunderstand the expression?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    edited September 2023
    Sean_F said:

    I'd say the issue with the Red Wall is simply that a lot of these were seats that had been moving away from Labour for a long time, especially ex-mining constituencies. I don't think it was because Boris had any special appeal.

    Red wall and seaside voters wanted levelling up. Brexit was supposed to be the means to that end but of course, it never could be. Dominic Cummings understood that and so did Boris, at least until Carrie sacked Cummings. It even had its own Cabinet Minister.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335
    AlsoLei said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Why doesn't he just say whether he will scrap it or not? He must have decided. His evasivenessivity on the issue makes him sound shifty.

    This interview was an utter catastrophe. (Note: could not be bothered to listen to it.)

    It must be that he's hoping to get the kudos for a "surprise" announcement that Phase 2b (aka the core of Northern Powerhouse Rail) is going ahead, whilst scrapping everything else that's not already in progress.

    I can't see any other reason why he'd be so desperately determined to dither at this point.
    IIRC phase 2B contains all the really expensive bits of the remaining northern part of HS2. So you might as well build the rest of the damn thing.

    Phase 1 of HS2 was ludicrously expensive because a) the Treasury insisted on shifting all the risk to the contractors, b) the initial mad decision to spec for 400km/hr trains and c) caving in to nimbies & burying most of the route in either cuttings or tunnels so no one ever had to have their views sullied by being able to see a train.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
    I’m just pointing out the sentence. They may of course be acquitted
    You did, er, say "going down". Or do I misunderstand the expression?
    No, I take your valid point and I’ve reworded my original comment. The ages of the arrested duo strongly suggest who it is but we don’t know for sure. And they may be acquitted

    I’m feeling quite emotional about vandals coz of that tree
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
    I’m just pointing out the sentence. They may of course be acquitted
    You did, er, say "going down". Or do I misunderstand the expression?
    he may have been referring to Monika Lewinsky?
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TwitterX is now convinced the tree was chopped down by extreme eco warriors making a point

    🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's kinda what you'd expect of a right-wing echo chamber which is what Elon Musk's fascist-friendly plaything is becoming.
    What absolute nonsense
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    "Could you explain the sawdust in your hair"
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the owners of the crooked house are going down for arson - it seems. GOOD

    Might want to adjust that wording?
    The crooked house miscreants are being charged with “arson endangering lives” - which carries an automatic prison sentence, almost certainly a long one

    What a terrible shame
    Not found guilty yet. Innocent until, contempt and all that.
    I’m just pointing out the sentence. They may of course be acquitted
    You did, er, say "going down". Or do I misunderstand the expression?
    he may have been referring to Monika Lewinsky?
    Or watched one too many dodgy prison movies.

    Don't drop the soap.
  • The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Impressive if a midgy (aka Meanbh-chuileag) could do that!
    Kenneth McKellar. Midges. Comical song by a man in a kilt.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMLona9oelM
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128

    Carnyx said:

    The felled sycamore also looks remarkably similar to the Tories' logo. I'm going with an aggrieved red-waller making a symbolic point: Rishi's betrayal of northern England over HS2 and Levelling Up.

    Nah, it's a Scot Nat.
    Typical. Unbelievable how many people think that southern Northumberland is part of Scotland.
    It was probably a raiding party
    Was it a Nixon?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited September 2023
    Don't know how the Tories have got themselves into this pickle over HS2.

    All they need to say is the project will be reviewed in the next Parliament. Is it really so difficult?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    edited September 2023
    Kirkland 4th (5):

    I mentioned in an earlier post that our 4th of July parades usually include a group dressed in traditional Scottish clothes. Here's an example from 2008:



    Two thoughts on Scots in the US. According to a 1996 book, "The Millionaire Next Door", Scots have done very well, financially, in the US, having a much higher proportion of millionaires than, for example, people of English descent.

    (The book is dated, and I am not sure I would accept the exact numbers even for that date, but I think the conclusion that Scots have done very well here is accurate.)

    Second, I can not think of an example of a serious conflict between Scots and English in the US. It's a big country, so no doubt there have been some, but I haven't heard of any.

    Partly, of course, that's because there is so much intermarriage. For example, my oldest sister (half German, a quarter English, and a quarter Danish) married a "Mac".
  • Leon said:

    I actually kinda hope it is a “mad local landowner” because then

    1. They’re more likely to be caught and

    2. We will have someone to put in a medieval jail for 390 years

    Cutting down a protected tree? A fine if you are lucky.


    Happens all the time pre-planning applications.

    Likely to get pulled up on ecology grounds? Clear the site before applying. Never mind the Tree Preservation Order. Crooked House but with vegetation.

    We're currently having fun with a solar farm application on a local wildlife site (unimproved grassland with rig and furrow).

    They thought it would be a good idea to just plough it up first to avoid any objections.
    The fine for unlicensed felling under the Forestry Act was increased from a pretty trivial one to an unlimited one at the start of 2022. Not sure how that's translated into penalties so far.

    On this one, though, I think if they ever find the culprit they might think about other offences. Section 78 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 puts the offence of public nuisance on a statutory basis (it was common law before and a bit trickier to prosecute). That covers "serious harm to the public" where serious harm covers "serious distress, serious annoyance, serious inconvenience or serious loss of amenity."

    You'd struggle to get someone on public nuisance if it was a protected tree on private land, but an ultra-prominent tree like this? I think there's a reasonably good case. It's punishable by up to ten years in prison.
  • I genuinely can’t think of another British PM so detached from, and seemingly so incurious about, the country they govern. Sunak gives no impression of having any interest in anything beyond his spreadsheets and his family. I think people can sense this.

    I like a good spreadsheet...
  • novanova Posts: 695
    GIN1138 said:

    Don't know how the Tories have got themselves into this pickle over HS2.

    All they need to say is the project will be reviewed in the next Parliament. Is it really so difficult?

    But if they do that, then people will assume it's being cancelled.

    If they do it now, they're probably hoping Labour commit to keeping it, and then it becomes a Labour spending story.

    "Why are Labour spending £100bn on this huge project to cut a few minutes off travel times to London? Same old Labour - spending your money, even in a cost of living crisis!"
  • Phil said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Why doesn't he just say whether he will scrap it or not? He must have decided. His evasivenessivity on the issue makes him sound shifty.

    This interview was an utter catastrophe. (Note: could not be bothered to listen to it.)

    It must be that he's hoping to get the kudos for a "surprise" announcement that Phase 2b (aka the core of Northern Powerhouse Rail) is going ahead, whilst scrapping everything else that's not already in progress.

    I can't see any other reason why he'd be so desperately determined to dither at this point.
    IIRC phase 2B contains all the really expensive bits of the remaining northern part of HS2. So you might as well build the rest of the damn thing.

    Phase 1 of HS2 was ludicrously expensive because a) the Treasury insisted on shifting all the risk to the contractors, b) the initial mad decision to spec for 400km/hr trains and c) caving in to nimbies & burying most of the route in either cuttings or tunnels so no one ever had to have their views sullied by being able to see a train.
    If HS2 had been built under Labour I reckon it would have been cheaper because they'd have just told Buckinghamshire to do one. The construction industry and the Tory Party are quite friendly too, aren't they. On the other hand, under Labour HS2 might have blown an extra £100bn celebrating Black History Month, so who knows.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    edited September 2023
    nova said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't know how the Tories have got themselves into this pickle over HS2.

    All they need to say is the project will be reviewed in the next Parliament. Is it really so difficult?

    But if they do that, then people will assume it's being cancelled.

    Not necessarily. It's been reviewed several times over the past few Parliaments and each time they've taken the decision to keep it going (despite the ever spiraling cost)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684
    Farooq said:

    finding it a little disconcerting more people are grieving a tree than Michael Gambon

    How are you measuring that?

    To be honest - Gambon had a fantastic career and life, and died in his eighties. That we should have such a life. (Although certain PBers may wish a bit more than 82, as they are rather closer to that age than most on here...)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    finding it a little disconcerting more people are grieving a tree than Michael Gambon

    I think you're confusing grief with anger.

    Michael Gambon was an excellent actor who died of natural causes at the age of 82. That's sad, but it does come to us all.

    Now, if he'd died due to some arsehole sneaking up in the middle of the night and felling him with a chainsaw, I suspect the anger would not just meet but exceed that on display over this tree.
    People love trees. It's similar to enjoying music, or the view from the top of a mountain.

    I appreciate not all people get that, but they should also understand that for some of us it's an important part of the human experience.
This discussion has been closed.