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The Mid Beds betting remains very tight – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
imageThe Mid Beds betting remains very tight – politicalbetting.com

I cannot recall a Westminster by-election where the betting has been as tight as we’re seeing in Mid Bedfordshire which takes place in four weeks time.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Lab hold in Hull.
  • slade said:

    Lab hold in Hull.

    It's the bridge wot won it.
  • We went to a talk about tsunamis this evening. Tsunamis in general, but also the 1755 tsunami and its impact on the West Cork coastline in particular. Lots that could be said about the talk - perhaps I'll remember to post a link to it when the recording is made available - but the thing that most struck me was one of the questions from the audience.

    Someone in the audience wondered why it was that there weren't reliable records from monastic communities, and he came with a the answer to his question - he believed that the Vatican was holding a great store of secret documents that they had taken from the monasteries of Ireland.

    Just what is it about conspiratorial thinking that people find so attractive?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    In the 1960s perhaps. Now it's Christian v. Islam.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    Lab hold in Hull but big rise in Lib Dem vote.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    We went to a talk about tsunamis this evening. Tsunamis in general, but also the 1755 tsunami and its impact on the West Cork coastline in particular. Lots that could be said about the talk - perhaps I'll remember to post a link to it when the recording is made available - but the thing that most struck me was one of the questions from the audience.

    Someone in the audience wondered why it was that there weren't reliable records from monastic communities, and he came with a the answer to his question - he believed that the Vatican was holding a great store of secret documents that they had taken from the monasteries of Ireland.

    Just what is it about conspiratorial thinking that people find so attractive?

    What motivation did he think they had?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,727
    edited September 2023

    slade said:

    Lab hold in Hull.

    It's the bridge wot won it.
    I doubt Barbara Castle was standing this time...

    Whatever happened to the E coast motorway that was supposed to follow the bridge, anyway?


    In some accounts there was a foot crossing of the Humber in Roman times, a couple of miles upstream. Looking down from the road deck now it seems impossible, but presumably the river was very different in character then.

    A brilliant piece of engineering, but you can never escape that neither side has very much to attract you across from the other.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    France 96
    Namibia 0

    Are one-sided matches like this really a good advertisement for rugby?

    No. It's fucking ridiculous. Namibia shouldn't be there. They've shipped 219 point in 3 games. Enough. This is embarrassing.
    Oh do calm down. Namibia are playing a World Cup in France. They are playing in front of huge crowds in massive stadiums. They are on international TV. They are having a European adventure, and a sporting experience the players and fans will never forget, going from Paris to Lyon to Nice

    So they lose all the time, by lots. I am fairly sure they will still regard this journey as a wonderful thing, which takes them a long way from Windhoek and Luderitz
    It's bad for rugby
    In what way, really? I mean, nobody was tuning in for a nip and tuck game - the fundamental nature of the game means you cannot get that when there is a significant difference in quality.

    So you either make it an old boys club, with a handful of countries having an interest, or you have a really global tournament. The global option has some hammerings, but sometimes a team develops enough to be sensational - Japan beats South Africa, or Fiji beats Australia.

    France v Namibia? Meh. No possibility of any doubt, so I didn't bother, but a good time had by all and I don't get the begrudging of it.
    Ok, let's think about some of the ways that sport is compelling:

    1. Competitiveness
    Clearly this is lacking in a game such as tonight's. The game is over before it begins. Completely predictable.
    FAIL

    2. Skill/ability
    Yes, France have that in abundance and no, Namibia do not. But France don't need to show much of it to win, because the opponents are so hopeless. Watching people do skills can be interesting, but those guys who do keep-ups and ball juggling get their gigs on high streets for change thrown into a hat. More people want to watch skills happen under pressure from competent opponents.
    PARTIAL FAIL

    3. Emotion
    Because of the predictability there is no real consequence to this match. A win for France and even the bonus point was guaranteed. Their qualification wasn't in the balance in this match, and Namibia were always going to be going home. No joy, no disappointment. Nobody watching had their heart racing.
    FAIL

    4. Escapism
    So yeah, you could sit and watch the point rack up and forget about work for a couple of hours. Fair enough. But closer games are more diverting that this. It was the emptiest of diversions.
    SUCCESS IF YOU'RE DESPERATE

    5. Socialising
    You can watch a match with mates. With interesting matches, there'll be less talking and more watching. With boring matches, you can catch up, the match is just an excuse to bond.
    DEPENDS

    That's me trying to be as generous as I can. The above isn't good. It's no better than watching any old nonsense. Some TV movie or a sport you don't care at all about. It fills time, and it might be an excuse to catch up with a mate. You can see some skilled people not really needing to stretch their ability. That's it.

    Against that is the creeping realisation that there are only about 10-15 countries in the rugby world. Crowbarring in 20 reeks of desperation. A sport trying to make itself relevant beyond its very narrow confines. Like a former star who's now doing cabaret at Butlins. It's not something you watch and think "wow, that could be me one day!" I don't think kids in Namibia will be rushing to be like their rugby heroes.
    Namibia @ World Cups: P24 W0 D0 L24.

    But it's a WORLD Cup and they qualify through the African section so they deserve to be there. Of course it's boring watching them get thrashed but the majority (not all) of rugby union matches are mind numbingly dull anyway.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    edited September 2023
    The Tories have gained a council seat from the SNP in Girvan and South Carrick, South Ayrshire. They got 47.5% on first preferences, and reached 54% on the 4th count.

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1705016247606235563


    "Kevin Dyson Local Democracy Reporter
    @KevinDy04896975

    Conservative Alan Lamont is elected at the fourth stage. Interestingly the second preference votes saw Conservatives pick up 151 to SNPs 150 from those who chose Labour with their first preference."

    https://twitter.com/KevinDy04896975
  • Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
  • FPT - The Spectator is right: voters don't want legal routes and humanitarian corridors: they want a naval blockade backed with force. They don't care about international law and, to the extent they do, if that's a problem they expect politicians to change it.

    If politicians in Europe continue to fail to deliver on this then I don't see any limit to how voters will go, sadly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I'm not sure where this idea the LDs have momentum is coming from.

    Sure, they were working the seat for months. But then Labour turned up and outgunned them and now the polling shows it's a two-horse race between them and the Conservatives.

    My bet is that they are now out the picture for the same reason they are at a national level.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    edited September 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    Their by-election record in any seat where they have a reasonable vote. In North Shropshire they started in 3rd place with 10% and still overtook Labour to win.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    Their by-election record in any seat where they have a reasonable vote. In North Shropshire they started in 3rd place with 10% and still overtook Labour to win.
    Did Labour bother to seriously campaign in that seat? And wasn't the political situation in 2021 quite different for Starmer?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    edited September 2023

    We went to a talk about tsunamis this evening. Tsunamis in general, but also the 1755 tsunami and its impact on the West Cork coastline in particular. Lots that could be said about the talk - perhaps I'll remember to post a link to it when the recording is made available - but the thing that most struck me was one of the questions from the audience.

    Someone in the audience wondered why it was that there weren't reliable records from monastic communities, and he came with a the answer to his question - he believed that the Vatican was holding a great store of secret documents that they had taken from the monasteries of Ireland.

    That Leon does get about.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    Last nights France Namibia match might have been a predictable walkover, but it will have a huge impact on RWC overall. Because Dupont's injury is a massive loss which will boost Irelands chances in the probable France v Ireland quarter final (assuming South Africa win tomorrow night) I originally had France down to win this QF but now I am not so sure...in which case we could see a repeat of South Africa in the final!!!
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    edited September 2023
    One big match in RWC tonight:
    Fri ARG v SAM. Argentina were surprisingly poor in their opening game against England, while Samoa were not really tested against Chile. But this game is effectively a knockout match to decide which of the two qualify for the quarter finals, and both sides will raise their game. I expect Argentina to play better tonight (they cant be much worse). Both sides are very physical especially Samoa, and I would not be surprised to see a red card – or two!! Samoa to win by 6
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,210
    Penddu2 said:

    Last nights France Namibia match might have been a predictable walkover, but it will have a huge impact on RWC overall. Because Dupont's injury is a massive loss which will boost Irelands chances in the probable France v Ireland quarter final (assuming South Africa win tomorrow night) I originally had France down to win this QF but now I am not so sure...in which case we could see a repeat of South Africa in the final!!!

    Borthwick gives returning Owen Farrell England captaincy for rest of World Cup
    ‘Owen has been an incredibly influential leader,’ says Borthwick
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/sep/21/steve-borthwick-owen-farrell-england-chile-rugby-world-cup

    Not in a good way.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    edited September 2023

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I'm not sure where this idea the LDs have momentum is coming from.

    Sure, they were working the seat for months. But then Labour turned up and outgunned them and now the polling shows it's a two-horse race between them and the Conservatives.

    My bet is that they are now out the picture for the same reason they are at a national level.
    But turnout is likely to be only about 40% - The effort on getting to the postal voters is crucial and thanks to Nadine's delayed resignation the Lib Dems are established. From my visits it is seen as local fight "we are not electing a government" was mentioned a few times.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I’m not sure if there’s a market, but I’d have thought you’d be better off betting on the Tories coming third if that’s how you see the state of play.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Greened up for £28.
    Could go any way
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    France 96
    Namibia 0

    Are one-sided matches like this really a good advertisement for rugby?

    No. It's fucking ridiculous. Namibia shouldn't be there. They've shipped 219 point in 3 games. Enough. This is embarrassing.
    Oh do calm down. Namibia are playing a World Cup in France. They are playing in front of huge crowds in massive stadiums. They are on international TV. They are having a European adventure, and a sporting experience the players and fans will never forget, going from Paris to Lyon to Nice

    So they lose all the time, by lots. I am fairly sure they will still regard this journey as a wonderful thing, which takes them a long way from Windhoek and Luderitz
    It's bad for rugby
    In what way, really? I mean, nobody was tuning in for a nip and tuck game - the fundamental nature of the game means you cannot get that when there is a significant difference in quality.

    So you either make it an old boys club, with a handful of countries having an interest, or you have a really global tournament. The global option has some hammerings, but sometimes a team develops enough to be sensational - Japan beats South Africa, or Fiji beats Australia.

    France v Namibia? Meh. No possibility of any doubt, so I didn't bother, but a good time had by all and I don't get the begrudging of it.
    Ok, let's think about some of the ways that sport is compelling:

    1. Competitiveness
    Clearly this is lacking in a game such as tonight's. The game is over before it begins. Completely predictable.
    FAIL

    2. Skill/ability
    Yes, France have that in abundance and no, Namibia do not. But France don't need to show much of it to win, because the opponents are so hopeless. Watching people do skills can be interesting, but those guys who do keep-ups and ball juggling get their gigs on high streets for change thrown into a hat. More people want to watch skills happen under pressure from competent opponents.
    PARTIAL FAIL

    3. Emotion
    Because of the predictability there is no real consequence to this match. A win for France and even the bonus point was guaranteed. Their qualification wasn't in the balance in this match, and Namibia were always going to be going home. No joy, no disappointment. Nobody watching had their heart racing.
    FAIL

    4. Escapism
    So yeah, you could sit and watch the point rack up and forget about work for a couple of hours. Fair enough. But closer games are more diverting that this. It was the emptiest of diversions.
    SUCCESS IF YOU'RE DESPERATE

    5. Socialising
    You can watch a match with mates. With interesting matches, there'll be less talking and more watching. With boring matches, you can catch up, the match is just an excuse to bond.
    DEPENDS

    That's me trying to be as generous as I can. The above isn't good. It's no better than watching any old nonsense. Some TV movie or a sport you don't care at all about. It fills time, and it might be an excuse to catch up with a mate. You can see some skilled people not really needing to stretch their ability. That's it.

    Against that is the creeping realisation that there are only about 10-15 countries in the rugby world. Crowbarring in 20 reeks of desperation. A sport trying to make itself relevant beyond its very narrow confines. Like a former star who's now doing cabaret at Butlins. It's not something you watch and think "wow, that could be me one day!" I don't think kids in Namibia will be rushing to be like their rugby heroes.
    Namibia @ World Cups: P24 W0 D0 L24.

    But it's a WORLD Cup and they qualify through the African section so they deserve to be there. Of course it's boring watching them get thrashed but the majority (not all) of rugby union matches are mind numbingly dull anyway.
    They qualified for the tournament though, which meant getting good results against the other nations in their region.

    There will be significant money attached to being there, even if they get thrashed. The team get to play in front of sold-out crowds in huge stadia, and Namibian people and officials get to enjoy a trip to France for the event. Millions will be watching on TV back home, and inspired by the national team being on the World’s biggest stage.

    As others have said, rugby is a meritocratic sport, and there’s many fewer surprise results than in football, but top level rugby is just brilliant to watch. Will any of us ever forget Wilkinson’s drop goal in 2003, in packed out pubs at nine o’clock in the morning?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,755
    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    Penddu2 said:

    One big match in RWC tonight:
    Fri ARG v SAM. Argentina were surprisingly poor in their opening game against England, while Samoa were not really tested against Chile. But this game is effectively a knockout match to decide which of the two qualify for the quarter finals, and both sides will raise their game. I expect Argentina to play better tonight (they cant be much worse). Both sides are very physical especially Samoa, and I would not be surprised to see a red card – or two!! Samoa to win by 6

    Incidentally - a Samoa win would effectivley guarantee England a place in QF. However an Argentina win would mean that England would need to beat Samoa in 2 weeks time - not a foregone conclusion.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I’m not sure if there’s a market, but I’d have thought you’d be better off betting on the Tories coming third if that’s how you see the state of play.
    The independent is well liked locally - Third might be a big ask for the Conservatives - Wonder at the effect on Sunak's future if such a result came to pass!
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Icarus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I'm not sure where this idea the LDs have momentum is coming from.

    Sure, they were working the seat for months. But then Labour turned up and outgunned them and now the polling shows it's a two-horse race between them and the Conservatives.

    My bet is that they are now out the picture for the same reason they are at a national level.
    But turnout is likely to be only about 40% - The effort on getting to the postal voters is crucial and thanks to Nadine's delayed resignation the Lib Dems are established. From my visits it is seen as local fight "we are not electing a government" was mentioned a few times.
    As our person on the spot what is your feeling as to how it is going ?
  • I am delighted to announce I have a new job.

    I am the new headline writer on the sports desk of The Times.

    What do you think about my Ryder Cup headline?


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    Four weeks is a long time in any election
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    France 96
    Namibia 0

    Are one-sided matches like this really a good advertisement for rugby?

    No. It's fucking ridiculous. Namibia shouldn't be there. They've shipped 219 point in 3 games. Enough. This is embarrassing.
    Oh do calm down. Namibia are playing a World Cup in France. They are playing in front of huge crowds in massive stadiums. They are on international TV. They are having a European adventure, and a sporting experience the players and fans will never forget, going from Paris to Lyon to Nice

    So they lose all the time, by lots. I am fairly sure they will still regard this journey as a wonderful thing, which takes them a long way from Windhoek and Luderitz
    It's bad for rugby
    In what way, really? I mean, nobody was tuning in for a nip and tuck game - the fundamental nature of the game means you cannot get that when there is a significant difference in quality.

    So you either make it an old boys club, with a handful of countries having an interest, or you have a really global tournament. The global option has some hammerings, but sometimes a team develops enough to be sensational - Japan beats South Africa, or Fiji beats Australia.

    France v Namibia? Meh. No possibility of any doubt, so I didn't bother, but a good time had by all and I don't get the begrudging of it.
    Ok, let's think about some of the ways that sport is compelling:

    1. Competitiveness
    Clearly this is lacking in a game such as tonight's. The game is over before it begins. Completely predictable.
    FAIL

    2. Skill/ability
    Yes, France have that in abundance and no, Namibia do not. But France don't need to show much of it to win, because the opponents are so hopeless. Watching people do skills can be interesting, but those guys who do keep-ups and ball juggling get their gigs on high streets for change thrown into a hat. More people want to watch skills happen under pressure from competent opponents.
    PARTIAL FAIL

    3. Emotion
    Because of the predictability there is no real consequence to this match. A win for France and even the bonus point was guaranteed. Their qualification wasn't in the balance in this match, and Namibia were always going to be going home. No joy, no disappointment. Nobody watching had their heart racing.
    FAIL

    4. Escapism
    So yeah, you could sit and watch the point rack up and forget about work for a couple of hours. Fair enough. But closer games are more diverting that this. It was the emptiest of diversions.
    SUCCESS IF YOU'RE DESPERATE

    5. Socialising
    You can watch a match with mates. With interesting matches, there'll be less talking and more watching. With boring matches, you can catch up, the match is just an excuse to bond.
    DEPENDS

    That's me trying to be as generous as I can. The above isn't good. It's no better than watching any old nonsense. Some TV movie or a sport you don't care at all about. It fills time, and it might be an excuse to catch up with a mate. You can see some skilled people not really needing to stretch their ability. That's it.

    Against that is the creeping realisation that there are only about 10-15 countries in the rugby world. Crowbarring in 20 reeks of desperation. A sport trying to make itself relevant beyond its very narrow confines. Like a former star who's now doing cabaret at Butlins. It's not something you watch and think "wow, that could be me one day!" I don't think kids in Namibia will be rushing to be like their rugby heroes.
    Namibia @ World Cups: P24 W0 D0 L24.

    But it's a WORLD Cup and they qualify through the African section so they deserve to be there. Of course it's boring watching them get thrashed but the majority (not all) of rugby union matches are mind numbingly dull anyway.
    They qualified for the tournament though, which meant getting good results against the other nations in their region.

    There will be significant money attached to being there, even if they get thrashed. The team get to play in front of sold-out crowds in huge stadia, and Namibian people and officials get to enjoy a trip to France for the event. Millions will be watching on TV back home, and inspired by the national team being on the World’s biggest stage.

    As others have said, rugby is a meritocratic sport, and there’s many fewer surprise results than in football, but top level rugby is just brilliant to watch. Will any of us ever forget Wilkinson’s drop goal in 2003, in packed out pubs at nine o’clock in the morning?
    They problem they have is, away from the qualifiers, what is the path to improve their standard ?

    For Argentina it was inclusion into the tri nations Southern Hemisphere completion. For Fiji the Drua participating in the Southern Hemisphere premier rugby competition.

    There is no path for them to gain experience against better sides and to improve

    Their sevens team have been hammered, recently, by Kenya. A side whose sevens game is very good and who benefitted from inclusion on the sevens circuit.

    For Namibia beating Tunisia, Morocco, Zimbabwe and a few other African no hopers every four years does nothing. They can improve, there is no Will in the international game to help them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,641
    edited September 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    France 96
    Namibia 0

    Are one-sided matches like this really a good advertisement for rugby?

    No. It's fucking ridiculous. Namibia shouldn't be there. They've shipped 219 point in 3 games. Enough. This is embarrassing.
    Oh do calm down. Namibia are playing a World Cup in France. They are playing in front of huge crowds in massive stadiums. They are on international TV. They are having a European adventure, and a sporting experience the players and fans will never forget, going from Paris to Lyon to Nice

    So they lose all the time, by lots. I am fairly sure they will still regard this journey as a wonderful thing, which takes them a long way from Windhoek and Luderitz
    It's bad for rugby
    In what way, really? I mean, nobody was tuning in for a nip and tuck game - the fundamental nature of the game means you cannot get that when there is a significant difference in quality.

    So you either make it an old boys club, with a handful of countries having an interest, or you have a really global tournament. The global option has some hammerings, but sometimes a team develops enough to be sensational - Japan beats South Africa, or Fiji beats Australia.

    France v Namibia? Meh. No possibility of any doubt, so I didn't bother, but a good time had by all and I don't get the begrudging of it.
    Ok, let's think about some of the ways that sport is compelling:

    1. Competitiveness
    Clearly this is lacking in a game such as tonight's. The game is over before it begins. Completely predictable.
    FAIL

    2. Skill/ability
    Yes, France have that in abundance and no, Namibia do not. But France don't need to show much of it to win, because the opponents are so hopeless. Watching people do skills can be interesting, but those guys who do keep-ups and ball juggling get their gigs on high streets for change thrown into a hat. More people want to watch skills happen under pressure from competent opponents.
    PARTIAL FAIL

    3. Emotion
    Because of the predictability there is no real consequence to this match. A win for France and even the bonus point was guaranteed. Their qualification wasn't in the balance in this match, and Namibia were always going to be going home. No joy, no disappointment. Nobody watching had their heart racing.
    FAIL

    4. Escapism
    So yeah, you could sit and watch the point rack up and forget about work for a couple of hours. Fair enough. But closer games are more diverting that this. It was the emptiest of diversions.
    SUCCESS IF YOU'RE DESPERATE

    5. Socialising
    You can watch a match with mates. With interesting matches, there'll be less talking and more watching. With boring matches, you can catch up, the match is just an excuse to bond.
    DEPENDS

    That's me trying to be as generous as I can. The above isn't good. It's no better than watching any old nonsense. Some TV movie or a sport you don't care at all about. It fills time, and it might be an excuse to catch up with a mate. You can see some skilled people not really needing to stretch their ability. That's it.

    Against that is the creeping realisation that there are only about 10-15 countries in the rugby world. Crowbarring in 20 reeks of desperation. A sport trying to make itself relevant beyond its very narrow confines. Like a former star who's now doing cabaret at Butlins. It's not something you watch and think "wow, that could be me one day!" I don't think kids in Namibia will be rushing to be like their rugby heroes.
    Namibia @ World Cups: P24 W0 D0 L24.

    But it's a WORLD Cup and they qualify through the African section so they deserve to be there. Of course it's boring watching them get thrashed but the majority (not all) of rugby union matches are mind numbingly dull anyway.
    They qualified for the tournament though, which meant getting good results against the other nations in their region.

    There will be significant money attached to being there, even if they get thrashed. The team get to play in front of sold-out crowds in huge stadia, and Namibian people and officials get to enjoy a trip to France for the event. Millions will be watching on TV back home, and inspired by the national team being on the World’s biggest stage.

    As others have said, rugby is a meritocratic sport, and there’s many fewer surprise results than in football, but top level rugby is just brilliant to watch. Will any of us ever forget Wilkinson’s drop goal in 2003, in packed out pubs at nine o’clock in the morning?
    They problem they have is, away from the qualifiers, what is the path to improve their standard ?

    For Argentina it was inclusion into the tri nations Southern Hemisphere completion. For Fiji the Drua participating in the Southern Hemisphere premier rugby competition.

    There is no path for them to gain experience against better sides and to improve

    Their sevens team have been hammered, recently, by Kenya. A side whose sevens game is very good and who benefitted from inclusion on the sevens circuit.

    For Namibia beating Tunisia, Morocco, Zimbabwe and a few other African no hopers every four years does nothing. They can improve, there is no Will in the international game to help them.
    Their route is already established - their players move to South Africa. Same as Tunisia, Maroc etc players moving to France. Once you have a core of better players coming through you can look again at National side competitions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    I am delighted to announce I have a new job.

    I am the new headline writer on the sports desk of The Times.

    What do you think about my Ryder Cup headline?


    What you have to do to make golf sound interesting.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    France 96
    Namibia 0

    Are one-sided matches like this really a good advertisement for rugby?

    No. It's fucking ridiculous. Namibia shouldn't be there. They've shipped 219 point in 3 games. Enough. This is embarrassing.
    Oh do calm down. Namibia are playing a World Cup in France. They are playing in front of huge crowds in massive stadiums. They are on international TV. They are having a European adventure, and a sporting experience the players and fans will never forget, going from Paris to Lyon to Nice

    So they lose all the time, by lots. I am fairly sure they will still regard this journey as a wonderful thing, which takes them a long way from Windhoek and Luderitz
    It's bad for rugby
    In what way, really? I mean, nobody was tuning in for a nip and tuck game - the fundamental nature of the game means you cannot get that when there is a significant difference in quality.

    So you either make it an old boys club, with a handful of countries having an interest, or you have a really global tournament. The global option has some hammerings, but sometimes a team develops enough to be sensational - Japan beats South Africa, or Fiji beats Australia.

    France v Namibia? Meh. No possibility of any doubt, so I didn't bother, but a good time had by all and I don't get the begrudging of it.
    Ok, let's think about some of the ways that sport is compelling:

    1. Competitiveness
    Clearly this is lacking in a game such as tonight's. The game is over before it begins. Completely predictable.
    FAIL

    2. Skill/ability
    Yes, France have that in abundance and no, Namibia do not. But France don't need to show much of it to win, because the opponents are so hopeless. Watching people do skills can be interesting, but those guys who do keep-ups and ball juggling get their gigs on high streets for change thrown into a hat. More people want to watch skills happen under pressure from competent opponents.
    PARTIAL FAIL

    3. Emotion
    Because of the predictability there is no real consequence to this match. A win for France and even the bonus point was guaranteed. Their qualification wasn't in the balance in this match, and Namibia were always going to be going home. No joy, no disappointment. Nobody watching had their heart racing.
    FAIL

    4. Escapism
    So yeah, you could sit and watch the point rack up and forget about work for a couple of hours. Fair enough. But closer games are more diverting that this. It was the emptiest of diversions.
    SUCCESS IF YOU'RE DESPERATE

    5. Socialising
    You can watch a match with mates. With interesting matches, there'll be less talking and more watching. With boring matches, you can catch up, the match is just an excuse to bond.
    DEPENDS

    That's me trying to be as generous as I can. The above isn't good. It's no better than watching any old nonsense. Some TV movie or a sport you don't care at all about. It fills time, and it might be an excuse to catch up with a mate. You can see some skilled people not really needing to stretch their ability. That's it.

    Against that is the creeping realisation that there are only about 10-15 countries in the rugby world. Crowbarring in 20 reeks of desperation. A sport trying to make itself relevant beyond its very narrow confines. Like a former star who's now doing cabaret at Butlins. It's not something you watch and think "wow, that could be me one day!" I don't think kids in Namibia will be rushing to be like their rugby heroes.
    Namibia @ World Cups: P24 W0 D0 L24.

    But it's a WORLD Cup and they qualify through the African section so they deserve to be there. Of course it's boring watching them get thrashed but the majority (not all) of rugby union matches are mind numbingly dull anyway.
    They qualified for the tournament though, which meant getting good results against the other nations in their region.

    There will be significant money attached to being there, even if they get thrashed. The team get to play in front of sold-out crowds in huge stadia, and Namibian people and officials get to enjoy a trip to France for the event. Millions will be watching on TV back home, and inspired by the national team being on the World’s biggest stage.

    As others have said, rugby is a meritocratic sport, and there’s many fewer surprise results than in football, but top level rugby is just brilliant to watch. Will any of us ever forget Wilkinson’s drop goal in 2003, in packed out pubs at nine o’clock in the morning?
    They problem they have is, away from the qualifiers, what is the path to improve their standard ?

    For Argentina it was inclusion into the tri nations Southern Hemisphere completion. For Fiji the Drua participating in the Southern Hemisphere premier rugby competition.

    There is no path for them to gain experience against better sides and to improve

    Their sevens team have been hammered, recently, by Kenya. A side whose sevens game is very good and who benefitted from inclusion on the sevens circuit.

    For Namibia beating Tunisia, Morocco, Zimbabwe and a few other African no hopers every four years does nothing. They can improve, there is no Will in the international game to help them.
    That’s a good point about the Kenyan Sevens team, who definitely benefit from being on the international circuit.

    More minor countries should take a look at what Kenya has done, perhaps it’s easier to keep a Sevens team than a national 15s team, most of whom would play abroad in SA or European leagues rather than locally.

    I’ll be at the local Sevens here in the sandpit in a couple of months’ time, although to be honest it’s more of a massive party than a serious watch of the competition!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    DavidL said:

    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.

    Yes, it’s been a good couple of weeks in that region for Ukraine. They’re now well within striking distance of the key railway line.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Four more weeks?!

    My heart goes out to the folk of Mid Beds. I’d be fair set to firebomb all three party HQs by now.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479
    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!
  • RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    I am certain there are many fake entries in there but there is clearly a strong resentment among the average Welsh resident. This will be debated in the Senedd but will not change the law.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Parody PM account on twitter

    "There are many serious issues facing this country and as Prime Minister I have to decide which ones to tackle first. So naturally I prioritised the ones that don’t exist."
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Ghedebrav said:

    Four more weeks?!

    My heart goes out to the folk of Mid Beds. I’d be fair set to firebomb all three party HQs by now.

    Wes Streeting may be able to give tips
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,210
    .
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.

    Yes, it’s been a good couple of weeks in that region for Ukraine. They’re now well within striking distance of the key railway line.
    With a bit more kit earlier in the year, they might have got further.
    The time to get ready for the offensive meant time to set up a lot of defences.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


  • Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.

    Yes, it’s been a good couple of weeks in that region for Ukraine. They’re now well within striking distance of the key railway line.
    With a bit more kit earlier in the year, they might have got further.
    The time to get ready for the offensive meant time to set up a lot of defences.
    I see Biden flip-flopping on ATACMS again. It’s literally the Army TACtical Missile System, of course it’s going to be blooming useful to the Ukranians. It even launches from the same platform as the HIMARS that are already in Ukraine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,210
    Good thread on the Poland/Ukraine argument over grain exports.

    Poland - Ukraine Grain Beef, a Thread!
    I notice that almost nobody is getting this, so since I used to be a CEO of a global food company for 7 years...
    Here is an explanation.
    First we need to suss out if Poland has any legal standing...

    https://twitter.com/Carl_Rehnberg2/status/1704497121821331670
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
  • biggles said:

    We went to a talk about tsunamis this evening. Tsunamis in general, but also the 1755 tsunami and its impact on the West Cork coastline in particular. Lots that could be said about the talk - perhaps I'll remember to post a link to it when the recording is made available - but the thing that most struck me was one of the questions from the audience.

    Someone in the audience wondered why it was that there weren't reliable records from monastic communities, and he came with a the answer to his question - he believed that the Vatican was holding a great store of secret documents that they had taken from the monasteries of Ireland.

    Just what is it about conspiratorial thinking that people find so attractive?

    What motivation did he think they had?
    I think I'm glad that the topic wasn't pursued, so I don't know.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
    Oh, the “It’s not really happening, it’s a mad conspiracy theory” argument.

    It’s really happening, in the real world.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    Taz said:

    Icarus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    I'm not sure where this idea the LDs have momentum is coming from.

    Sure, they were working the seat for months. But then Labour turned up and outgunned them and now the polling shows it's a two-horse race between them and the Conservatives.

    My bet is that they are now out the picture for the same reason they are at a national level.
    But turnout is likely to be only about 40% - The effort on getting to the postal voters is crucial and thanks to Nadine's delayed resignation the Lib Dems are established. From my visits it is seen as local fight "we are not electing a government" was mentioned a few times.
    As our person on the spot what is your feeling as to how it is going ?
    Not on the spot - only a visitor - hope to go back on Sunday - Whilst local polls are very suspect -partly because of turnout- it may be equally fatal to rely on my biased anecdote!!
  • Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    Remember when you cited the Wales online poll as proof Lineker was unpopular and I pointed out that was a voodoo poll, this is that all over again.

    Once again there is reputable polling that shows you’re out of touch.
  • To those interested in the 20ph controversy in Wales this is an article written by the person who set up the petition and by the way is a labour supporter

    Man who set up 20mph petition thinks rollout will cost Welsh Labour dearly

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/man-who-set-up-20mph-27761473#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
    Oh, the “It’s not really happening, it’s a mad conspiracy theory” argument.

    It’s really happening, in the real world.
    No, the conspiracy theory is specifically that "elites", someone separate from the legitimate government, is making decisions to steal from you and usurp your family and your land. If I were as useless at democratic government as Johnson or Sunak, I might even consider going along with the theory.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Did you ever catch that swan :smiley:
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    DavidL said:

    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.

    The weather at the moment is on Ukraine’s side. Warmer than average and pretty dry, which means soil moisture is unusually low in the South and South East.

    http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp4
    http://wxmaps.org/pix/soil4

    This should guarantee dry enough surfaces even with more rainfall until late in Octigercat least.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    If you don't see that hating a nebulous group of people is what politicians do to distract you, the last 100 years have been a waste!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    edited September 2023
    Morning all.

    Interesting - BBC Verify (are they called now?) pulling Rishi Sunak's pants down on his climate change straw men. Short article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66878893

    The only claim that stands up is the claim of relatively rapid (to other advanced economies) of reduction of emissions. The rest is baloney, and a screeching halt since it may impact on (I suggest) those who he thinks are his core voters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Interesting - BBC Verify (are they called now?) pulling Rishi Sunak's pants down on his climate change straw men. Short article:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66878893

    The only claim that stands up is the claim of relatively rapid (to other advanced economies) of reduction of emissions. The rest is baloney, and a screeching halt since it may impact on (I suggest) those who he thinks are his core voters.

    BBC Verify, can’t even verify the CVs of their own staff. They’ve already had their own pants pulled down.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/bbc-disinformation-correspondent-accused-of-lying-on-her-cv/
  • Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Hope is building that Ukraine is finally getting into a position to exploit their mobility beyond the Russian defences:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/21/2194636/-Ukraine-consolidates-gains-around-Robotyne-and-is-primed-for-more

    There is not a lot of the summer season left before the mud slows the tanks again anyway but there is perhaps enough for a serious attack on Tokmak.

    Yes, it’s been a good couple of weeks in that region for Ukraine. They’re now well within striking distance of the key railway line.
    With a bit more kit earlier in the year, they might have got further.
    The time to get ready for the offensive meant time to set up a lot of defences.
    I see Biden flip-flopping on ATACMS again. It’s literally the Army TACtical Missile System, of course it’s going to be blooming useful to the Ukranians. It even launches from the same platform as the HIMARS that are already in Ukraine.
    Never mind, when Trump gets back in I’m sure it’ll be sorted out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,210
    edited September 2023
    ‘Sexy’ Biden and family get-togethers: Comer views new email details
    Emails provided to House Oversight Chair Jim Comer included no smoking guns.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/21/biden-james-comer-emails-00117464
    ...While there is significant evidence that Hunter — who has admitted to struggling with substance abuse at the time — made trading on his father’s name a centerpiece of his dealings with foreign business associates, Republicans have yet to turn up direct evidence* that Joe Biden benefited personally or that he took any official action as a result of those connections...

    * Or any shred of evidence at all.

    The impeachment effort is a travesty - and includes demonstrable lies

    ..A May, 27, 2016 schedule card includes a call with former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. Hunter Biden was copied on the day’s schedule. It’s already been reported that Biden was also due to attend the one-year anniversary of the passing of his son, Beau, back home in Delaware. Comer had been pointing to this scheduling item, since it was also emailed to then-Vice President Biden under a pseudonym email address. Comer even said the vice president was sending a secret message to his son that he was about to fire the prosecutor. As recently as last week, Comer included that email on a list of “evidence” of Joe Biden’s “involvement in his family’s influence peddling schemes.”

    The Washington Post had debunked this a few weeks ago by noting that parliament had fired the prosecutor two months prior to Hunter Biden being looped on the day’s itinerary. The only new information in the unredacted version was a phone number of an aide, the sources said...

  • ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
    Fire fighters still ain't enforcing it, though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,134
    EPG said:

    If you don't see that hating a nebulous group of people is what politicians do to distract you, the last 100 years have been a waste!

    Murdoch railing against elites yesterday takes the biscuit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,210
    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
    Oh, the “It’s not really happening, it’s a mad conspiracy theory” argument.

    It’s really happening, in the real world.
    Please show us your "real world" evidence for Labour's 'meat tax' plans, which Sunak recently referred to ?

    The real world seems to be that our PM has engaged in a dishonest smear campaign, which he kicked off just as Parliament went into recess.
    Neatly avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny of his shoddy policy changes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Nigelb said:

    ‘Sexy’ Biden and family get-togethers: Comer views new email details
    Emails provided to House Oversight Chair Jim Comer included no smoking guns.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/21/biden-james-comer-emails-00117464
    ...While there is significant evidence that Hunter — who has admitted to struggling with substance abuse at the time — made trading on his father’s name a centerpiece of his dealings with foreign business associates, Republicans have yet to turn up direct evidence* that Joe Biden benefited personally or that he took any official action as a result of those connections...

    * Or any shred of evidence at all.

    The impeachment effort is a travesty - and includes demonstrable lies

    ..A May, 27, 2016 schedule card includes a call with former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. Hunter Biden was copied on the day’s schedule. It’s already been reported that Biden was also due to attend the one-year anniversary of the passing of his son, Beau, back home in Delaware. Comer had been pointing to this scheduling item, since it was also emailed to then-Vice President Biden under a pseudonym email address. Comer even said the vice president was sending a secret message to his son that he was about to fire the prosecutor. As recently as last week, Comer included that email on a list of “evidence” of Joe Biden’s “involvement in his family’s influence peddling schemes.”

    The Washington Post had debunked this a few weeks ago by noting that parliament had fired the prosecutor two months prior to Hunter Biden being looped on the day’s itinerary. The only new information in the unredacted version was a phone number of an aide, the sources said...

    Joe Biden on the firing of the Ukranian prosecutor - who was investigating the company that was paying his son $600k a year for political advise - in his own words

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=VG0nAT9xOHk
  • Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    “Everything I do, think and dream is recorded. I just hope that no one will use it against me”

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating

    https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548
    Fire fighters still ain't enforcing it, though.
    Only 1,766 signatures on this: https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245542

    Priorities, priorities.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    If Labour can frame green issues in a more local/tangible way I reckon they’ll be onto a winner.

    It’s hard to see a global increase of 0.3°; it is much easier to see your rivers being filled with sewage and your beaches covered in dead sealife.

    My pet theory is that most people really do care about environmental issues, but are turned off by global intangibles. Labour’s job is to frame the argument correctly.
  • I had to drive at 20mph through a succession of Scottish villages yesterday. It was - as the petition says - absolute carnage, and I am so traumatised that I barely slept.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    edited September 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
    Oh, the “It’s not really happening, it’s a mad conspiracy theory” argument.

    It’s really happening, in the real world.
    Please show us your "real world" evidence for Labour's 'meat tax' plans, which Sunak recently referred to ?

    The real world seems to be that our PM has engaged in a dishonest smear campaign, which he kicked off just as Parliament went into recess.
    Neatly avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny of his shoddy policy changes.
    Did Sunak specifically refer to Labour’s meat tax plans? I might have missed that.

    Labour’s taxes and restrictions on motorists, on the other hand, are very clear for everyone to see in London and Wales.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,403

    FPT - The Spectator is right: voters don't want legal routes and humanitarian corridors: they want a naval blockade backed with force. They don't care about international law and, to the extent they do, if that's a problem they expect politicians to change it.

    If politicians in Europe continue to fail to deliver on this then I don't see any limit to how voters will go, sadly.

    IIUC there are about 50 boats arriving per night across the Channel. A naval blockade to stop them would require things like helicopters or fast boats to disable the engines until a a RN ship can arrive to process them, however we define "process". So we need to buy/build/redeploy enough choppers/fast boats/slow ships to do it.

    One of my ongoing complaints about British politics is its lack of realism: what is necessary to achieve the task and deploying the resources necessary to achieve it. Do you see any - and I mean any - party doing the necessary planning for a naval blockade?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,134
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    Sure. If you want to hate your enemies out of fear of the unknown, nobody can stop you. It is an update of the paranoid theories that Jewish monied elites control everything and kill Christian babies.
    Oh, the “It’s not really happening, it’s a mad conspiracy theory” argument.

    It’s really happening, in the real world.
    Please show us your "real world" evidence for Labour's 'meat tax' plans, which Sunak recently referred to ?

    The real world seems to be that our PM has engaged in a dishonest smear campaign, which he kicked off just as Parliament went into recess.
    Neatly avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny of his shoddy policy changes.
    Did Sunak specifically refer to Labour’s meat tax plans? I might have missed that.

    Labour’s taxes and restrictions on motorists, on the other hand, are very clear for everyone to see in London and Wales.
    Our first vegetarian PM ending the hated meat tax just shows how well our country is run.

    Satire is no longer possible in British politics.
  • Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    It has been known for online systems like this to be abused, though.

    https://www.cfoc.org.uk/index.php/2021/10/09/how-pro-car-extremists-cheated-a-cambridgeshire-consultation-and-won/

    But two things to remember:

    The important one is that opponents of anything new are always louder than supporters. It's easy peasy for a small number of furious opponents to outshout a quietly content majority.

    The other is that a lot of innovations take more than a week to settle down.

    Can't be sure, but I suspect the ULEZ fury is beginning to dissipate, except amongst the hardcore.

    To get overexcited at instant reactions is to risk looking silly.

  • On topic, the betting market now puts the Tories in 3rd. As a few of us are saying that feels doable, so I'm no longer concerned about Lab/LD fighting letting the rats sneak back in.

    They tanked 5 points last week. This week has been Truss-level embarrassment. What happens as we head into conference season - are they going to announce that if elected to government they will reverse Keir Starmers policy of forcing everyone to eat pineapple on pizza?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    A year to the day since Kwarteng’s legendary fiscal event.

    Happy anniversary. I’ll be observing the moment of silence at 12.30 today.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,134
    viewcode said:

    FPT - The Spectator is right: voters don't want legal routes and humanitarian corridors: they want a naval blockade backed with force. They don't care about international law and, to the extent they do, if that's a problem they expect politicians to change it.

    If politicians in Europe continue to fail to deliver on this then I don't see any limit to how voters will go, sadly.

    IIUC there are about 50 boats arriving per night across the Channel. A naval blockade to stop them would require things like helicopters or fast boats to disable the engines until a a RN ship can arrive to process them, however we define "process". So we need to buy/build/redeploy enough choppers/fast boats/slow ships to do it.

    One of my ongoing complaints about British politics is its lack of realism: what is necessary to achieve the task and deploying the resources necessary to achieve it. Do you see any - and I mean any - party doing the necessary planning for a naval blockade?
    No, the number of boats arriving is zero to 5 per day according to official figures:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days
  • rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the LDs are great value in Mid Beds but DYOR.

    Why are you so convinced the LDs will win it?
    If someone offers me 3-1 odds on the LDs, then I'd probably take it. I'd reckon they are probably neck and neck with Labour to grab the seat, simply because they are better byelection players, and they have some momentum.

    My guesstimate would be 40% (chance) Labour, 40% LD, 20% Con.

    That makes this an "OK" (rather than great) bet, but I'm far from certain the LDs will win.
    In what world is 3/1 (25%) on a 40% chance not a great bet? 2/1 is still a great bet on a 40% chance. Bloom and Benham have made their billions typically betting a bit less than 13/8 on them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,403
    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    WILL PEOPLE ON HERE PLEASE STOP GIVING AWAY THEIR PERSONAL DETAILS? WHAT IS THE POINT OF RULES AGAINST DOXXING IF PEOPLE DOXX THEMSELVES?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    On topic, the betting market now puts the Tories in 3rd. As a few of us are saying that feels doable, so I'm no longer concerned about Lab/LD fighting letting the rats sneak back in.

    They tanked 5 points last week. This week has been Truss-level embarrassment. What happens as we head into conference season - are they going to announce that if elected to government they will reverse Keir Starmers policy of forcing everyone to eat pineapple on pizza?

    Lib Dems I spoke to at the weekend who had been there canvassing were talking up a Tory third place.

    I’m not convinced. Will be interesting to see if Sunak’s gas guzzler’s charter this week might help them sneak home. It’s a rural seat, though better served by public transport than many.
  • Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    It has been known for online systems like this to be abused, though.

    https://www.cfoc.org.uk/index.php/2021/10/09/how-pro-car-extremists-cheated-a-cambridgeshire-consultation-and-won/

    But two things to remember:

    The important one is that opponents of anything new are always louder than supporters. It's easy peasy for a small number of furious opponents to outshout a quietly content majority.

    The other is that a lot of innovations take more than a week to settle down.

    Can't be sure, but I suspect the ULEZ fury is beginning to dissipate, except amongst the hardcore.

    To get overexcited at instant reactions is to risk looking silly.

    Its very simple. Drakeford is a baddie. Welsh Labour are in power forever and as a Tory that is Bad. So cling to anything at all - no matter how hysterical it is - which gives a glimmer of Labour being overturned and the Tories taking over.

    I can't wait for the Tory campaign for the Senedd - vote for me and I'll not actually do anything because speed limits are set by councils. But I will be telling those councils that people should be allowed to speed through villages. Not your own village though see, only Other People's Villages.
  • Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    Remember when you cited the Wales online poll as proof Lineker was unpopular and I pointed out that was a voodoo poll, this is that all over again.

    Once again there is reputable polling that shows you’re out of touch.
    This is not a poll but a petition

    It is run by the Senedd petition committee and for those claiming they have signed it then they would have had to return a verification to the Senedd otherwise their signature is void

    The attempts to undermine the objections actually only enhance it

    The verification notice received from the Senedd when submitting a signature:-

    Click this link to sign the petition:

    We want the Welsh Government to rescind and remove the disastrous 20mph law
    https://petitions.senedd.wales/signatures/1801869/verify?token=cNZ3-Ow-hFVxcT--duIR
    Thanks,

    The Petitions team
    Senedd
    ________________________________________
    Cliciwch ar y linc i lofnodi’r ddeiseb:

    Rydym am i Lywodraeth Cymru ddiddymu’r gyfraith drychinebus ynghylch y terfyn cyflymder o 20mya
    https://deisebau.senedd.cymru/llofnodion/1801869/gwirio?token=cNZ3-Ow-hFVxcT--duIR
    Diolch,

    Tîm Deisebau

    Y Senedd

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    It has been known for online systems like this to be abused, though.

    https://www.cfoc.org.uk/index.php/2021/10/09/how-pro-car-extremists-cheated-a-cambridgeshire-consultation-and-won/

    But two things to remember:

    The important one is that opponents of anything new are always louder than supporters. It's easy peasy for a small number of furious opponents to outshout a quietly content majority.

    The other is that a lot of innovations take more than a week to settle down.

    Can't be sure, but I suspect the ULEZ fury is beginning to dissipate, except amongst the hardcore.

    To get overexcited at instant reactions is to risk looking silly.

    “Pro-car extremists” lol.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    “Everything I do, think and dream is recorded. I just hope that no one will use it against me”

    “Everything you considered a product, has now become a service”.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    WILL PEOPLE ON HERE PLEASE STOP GIVING AWAY THEIR PERSONAL DETAILS? WHAT IS THE POINT OF RULES AGAINST DOXXING IF PEOPLE DOXX THEMSELVES?
    Sean T was allowed to Doxx Tim wasn't he
  • Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    It has been known for online systems like this to be abused, though.

    https://www.cfoc.org.uk/index.php/2021/10/09/how-pro-car-extremists-cheated-a-cambridgeshire-consultation-and-won/

    But two things to remember:

    The important one is that opponents of anything new are always louder than supporters. It's easy peasy for a small number of furious opponents to outshout a quietly content majority.

    The other is that a lot of innovations take more than a week to settle down.

    Can't be sure, but I suspect the ULEZ fury is beginning to dissipate, except amongst the hardcore.

    To get overexcited at instant reactions is to risk looking silly.

    “Pro-car extremists” lol.
    Before you get excited, i have to ask if you actually clicked the link.

    Badly conceived and implemented traffic removal measure implemented by a *Tory Council* against the wishes of residents and businesses.

    Tories then lost the election and the Lab/LD coalition removed the measures. Based on a dodgy survey which officers told councillors to ignore as the qual data showed support.

    And the piece is written by a Tory cycling group!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    In general one can find articles and reports expressing any view at all, so "someone once said something like this" isn't a compelling argument.

    I know quite a lot about the meat issue. There is an objective problem with ever-rising consumption, since intensive farms are dependent on massive soya and grain imports (mostly from South America), which in turn depend on deforestation, which produces lots of greenhouse gases (animal agriculture produces more greenhouses gases than all the cars on the planet), and creates a dependency on a maritime supply chain and anyway can't go on indefinitely as the land isn't infinite. Thus lots of charities and think tanks believe it'd be a Good Thing if we transitioned to eating less meat (and less intensively reared. Dimbleby's food strategy report commissioned by the Government recommended a target of 30% reduction in meat consumption. I eat meat myself so I'm by no means a zealot on it, but I do recognise the issue.

    However, it's a consensus of nearly everyone familiar with the issue that a meat tax is such a no-no for voters that it's not even worth asking parties to consider it. I seem to remember some Green Party interest, but Labour and LibDems would certainly go nowhere near it. The pressure is therefore for encouragement of alternative proteins, and stopping actually pushing people to eat more meat (government-funded advertising, minimum meat requirements for school, etc.). Sunak is therefore definitely attacking a straw man when he says he won't have a meat tax - nor will anyone else.
  • Didn’t have a strong opinion about Pierce Brosnan, probably vaguely positive. I have a strong opinion now.

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1704997011865391445?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    In general one can find articles and reports expressing any view at all, so "someone once said something like this" isn't a compelling argument.

    I know quite a lot about the meat issue. There is an objective problem with ever-rising consumption, since intensive farms are dependent on massive soya and grain imports (mostly from South America), which in turn depend on deforestation, which produces lots of greenhouse gases (animal agriculture produces more greenhouses gases than all the cars on the planet), and creates a dependency on a maritime supply chain and anyway can't go on indefinitely as the land isn't infinite. Thus lots of charities and think tanks believe it'd be a Good Thing if we transitioned to eating less meat (and less intensively reared. Dimbleby's food strategy report commissioned by the Government recommended a target of 30% reduction in meat consumption. I eat meat myself so I'm by no means a zealot on it, but I do recognise the issue.

    However, it's a consensus of nearly everyone familiar with the issue that a meat tax is such a no-no for voters that it's not even worth asking parties to consider it. I seem to remember some Green Party interest, but Labour and LibDems would certainly go nowhere near it. The pressure is therefore for encouragement of alternative proteins, and stopping actually pushing people to eat more meat (government-funded advertising, minimum meat requirements for school, etc.). Sunak is therefore definitely attacking a straw man when he says he won't have a meat tax - nor will anyone else.
    Thanks Nick. Like you I have a reasonable amount of knowledge (having spent 10 years working for plant-based food manufacturers) and nobody was introducing a "meat tax".

    We need more plant-based foods and despite a consolidation in the market this year volume and choice will continue to grow. Plant-based will be great for the meat sector as it takes the pressure off and removes the need to rear animals quite as intensely and damagingly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,457
    edited September 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    And some bad news for Wales.... Superstar Louis Rees Zammit has been banned from playing in Wales home games for the 2023-24 season. He was clocked at 24.6 mph during Wales recent win against Portugal, which exceeds the new Welsh speed restrictions. First Minister Mark Drakeford said
    'This young mans reckless behaviour sets a terrible example for other players which endangers not just other players and officials but the 74,000 spectators inside the stadium'.
    As well as the ban, he will have to attend a Slow Speed School which has already been pioneered by Steve Borthwick.

    I've been trying to get my head around this interactive map of the new speed limits, and I'm baffled.

    The A493 from Tywyn to Dolgellau goes through a number of small villages. One of them is my old stamping ground of Llwyngwril.

    If I read the map aright, they have kept the limit at 30 from Llangelynin to Llwyngwril, reduced it to 20 at Llwyngwril itself, *kept it at 20* from Llwyngwril to Friog, and *increased* it to 30 going through Friog itself.

    If correct, that's madness.

    And if not, the map can't be relied on.

    But there, Drakeford couldn't even spell Llwyngwril.
    Good morning

    The implementation has been bizarre and the petition grows day by day with 371,980 signatures of which 95% are from Wales and nearly 5% from England raising the real prospect of English day and weekend trippers avoiding the Welsh holiday areas reflected in concerns coming from the industry

    I know this triggers some but the count shows no sign of abating
    Because it isn't Welsh people signing it


    That’s not what I see when I do the same search:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&geo=GB&q=Welsh postcodes
    He is in denial and it is a very real issue here and especially the threat to the holiday industry

    Even I've signed it.


    Good try but you are beginning to look ridiculous
    It has been known for online systems like this to be abused, though.

    https://www.cfoc.org.uk/index.php/2021/10/09/how-pro-car-extremists-cheated-a-cambridgeshire-consultation-and-won/

    But two things to remember:

    The important one is that opponents of anything new are always louder than supporters. It's easy peasy for a small number of furious opponents to outshout a quietly content majority.

    The other is that a lot of innovations take more than a week to settle down.

    Can't be sure, but I suspect the ULEZ fury is beginning to dissipate, except amongst the hardcore.

    To get overexcited at instant reactions is to risk looking silly.

    “Pro-car extremists” lol.
    A smallish number of people sending in multiple identical responses each, all at the pro car end of the options?

    Would "pro-car cheats" be preferable as a headline?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,100
    ...
  • Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    In general one can find articles and reports expressing any view at all, so "someone once said something like this" isn't a compelling argument.

    I know quite a lot about the meat issue. There is an objective problem with ever-rising consumption, since intensive farms are dependent on massive soya and grain imports (mostly from South America), which in turn depend on deforestation, which produces lots of greenhouse gases (animal agriculture produces more greenhouses gases than all the cars on the planet), and creates a dependency on a maritime supply chain and anyway can't go on indefinitely as the land isn't infinite. Thus lots of charities and think tanks believe it'd be a Good Thing if we transitioned to eating less meat (and less intensively reared. Dimbleby's food strategy report commissioned by the Government recommended a target of 30% reduction in meat consumption. I eat meat myself so I'm by no means a zealot on it, but I do recognise the issue.

    However, it's a consensus of nearly everyone familiar with the issue that a meat tax is such a no-no for voters that it's not even worth asking parties to consider it. I seem to remember some Green Party interest, but Labour and LibDems would certainly go nowhere near it. The pressure is therefore for encouragement of alternative proteins, and stopping actually pushing people to eat more meat (government-funded advertising, minimum meat requirements for school, etc.). Sunak is therefore definitely attacking a straw man when he says he won't have a meat tax - nor will anyone else.
    Now loads of youngsters don't eat meat, or eat it only occassionally, if that continues for future generations then demographics will take care of a significant reduction on its own.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479
    Sandpit said:

    Zac Goldsmith was critical of Sunak’s Net Zero policy change. Kemi Badenoch was quoted in the Standard criticising Goldsmith, saying, “Zac Goldsmith is someone who cares very much about the environment,... But the fact is, he has way more money than pretty much everyone in the UK.”

    That’s a brave line to take when Rishi Sunak has way more money than Zac Goldsmith!

    The theory of “luxury beliefs” is going to be an increasingly important political issue in the next few years.

    It starts with mocking those who turn up to climate change summits in private planes, but quickly goes into retail local politics, with Conservatives pointing at Sadiq Khan and Mark Drakeford as evidence that Labour want to make cars something that only the rich have, and everyone else can get the bus.

    Same with the ‘meat tax’. Fillet steak and caviar for the climate summit attendees, but bugs and salad for the rest of us.

    The thing is, that these are actual discussions happening in academia and at these international summits. The WEF really did publish a paper with the title “Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better”
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161125135500/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is
    If we take your argument to be correct, where does this leave Sunak? Is he seen as a man of the people, or do people think about his family’s immense wealth?
This discussion has been closed.