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Another Commons by-election in the offing – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,216
edited September 2023 in General
imageAnother Commons by-election in the offing – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Tory hold, I fear
  • Labour gain, 2k majority.
  • Pincher by name, Pincher by.... :lol:
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    I dunno who will win, but I think Labour needs to be at least within 5 points to be seen as having a landslide GE whenever it happens. If Labour loses and does an Uxbridge again, and decides to blame it's left flank rather than crow that it got very close to winning the seat held by the former *Conservative prime minister*, that is also telling....
  • Would be extraordinary if Labour gained a seat like this, I'm struggling to see it. This should be an absolutely rock solid Tory seat given the party's current positioning and voter base - as evident in the 2019 result (2/3 of the votes go blue FFS). However, I think Labour will cut the Tory majority enough to still suggest a majority at the next GE.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️
  • Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    Worth posting the 2017 results

    General election 2017: Tamworth[20]
    Party Candidate Votes % ±%
    Conservative Chris Pincher 28,748 61.0 Increase 11.0
    Labour Andrew Hammond 16,401 34.8 Increase 8.7
    Liberal Democrats Jennifer Pinkett 1,961 4.2 Increase 1.2

    It's possible that Labour could win if the Tories stay at home but I suspect Tory voters that sit out the by election may be back at the next election...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Cuts to the diplomatic service budget?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    FPT
    kle4 said:

    JPJ2 said:

    Interesting for the future of the UK that the same poll shows a likely SNP/GREEN majority at HOLYROOD of 11.

    Does it? The latest R&W figures for Holyrood indicates 25% SNP and 14% Green on the Regional List (so combined 39%, well down on the 48% combined in 2021), with Labour leading the Regional List on 30%. The SNP still lead in the constituency vote with 39% versus 30% for Labour, and that may yield quite a lot of seats - but that lead is miles down on the 26% lead at the last Scottish elections.

    I've not done the maths but are you sure you're looking at the same poll, because there is no chance of those numbers delivering an SNP/Green majority.
    Someone has done the maths.
    I accept Stats for Lefties are not PB faves, but Mark McGeoghehan is yer actual Scotch polling expert, and I assume wouldn’t rt without having some faith in them.


    Shuffling around of the unionist allocation would be a disappointing outcome after all this kerfuffle. Not from all perspectives, admittedly.
    But isn't that logical? It would suggest that the same amount of voters are convinced of unionism / independence - but aren't necessarily wedded to a specific party to deliver that. Indeed, that was the reason of the rise of Scotch Tories, no? That they were the "reasonable unionists"? Now Labour is "back to being serious", why wouldn't it only be a shuffling of unionist votes and therefore representation?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    edited September 2023
    I think Labour will win Tamworth despite the huge Tory majority. Will they give the LDs a free run in Mid Beds in return?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,487
    Andy_JS said:

    I think Labour will win Tamworth despite the huge Tory majority. Will they give the LDs a free run in Mid Beds in return?

    No. They may direct resource to Tamworth and away from Mid Beds in a way that helps the LibDems there.
  • Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    SAS ‘busy’ in Ukraine according to the more lurid fantasies of certain folk?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    ...

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    All the unattended sleeping bags in the porches of closed shops in Eign Gate suggests you might have a point.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    148grss said:

    FPT

    kle4 said:

    JPJ2 said:

    Interesting for the future of the UK that the same poll shows a likely SNP/GREEN majority at HOLYROOD of 11.

    Does it? The latest R&W figures for Holyrood indicates 25% SNP and 14% Green on the Regional List (so combined 39%, well down on the 48% combined in 2021), with Labour leading the Regional List on 30%. The SNP still lead in the constituency vote with 39% versus 30% for Labour, and that may yield quite a lot of seats - but that lead is miles down on the 26% lead at the last Scottish elections.

    I've not done the maths but are you sure you're looking at the same poll, because there is no chance of those numbers delivering an SNP/Green majority.
    Someone has done the maths.
    I accept Stats for Lefties are not PB faves, but Mark McGeoghehan is yer actual Scotch polling expert, and I assume wouldn’t rt without having some faith in them.


    Shuffling around of the unionist allocation would be a disappointing outcome after all this kerfuffle. Not from all perspectives, admittedly.
    But isn't that logical? It would suggest that the same amount of voters are convinced of unionism / independence - but aren't necessarily wedded to a specific party to deliver that. Indeed, that was the reason of the rise of Scotch Tories, no? That they were the "reasonable unionists"? Now Labour is "back to being serious", why wouldn't it only be a shuffling of unionist votes and therefore representation?
    Just o add to the complication, a fair chunk of Slab voters were pro-indy anyway, though some will have moved to the SGs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    'kin' 'ell Leon that has happened in months rather than years.

    Scary times
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    We were there earlier in the summer - same thing. Thought we might see the Mappa Mundi as we were passing through - Mappa museum closed. Cathedral cafe, closed too. Nothing much in the cathedral to guide you round. Streets deserted. Eventually found a nice enough street cafe but the city seemed rather sad.

    Salisbury, similar in a lot of ways, suffered a double blow with the Russian Poisonings then Covid but seems to have bounced back well.
  • BA owner IAG stands to make millions from unclaimed flight vouchers
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba-owner-iag-stands-to-make-millions-from-unclaimed-flight-vouchers-mkr7gl0sl (£££)

    Posted as a service to rich but forgetful PBers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited September 2023
    It's been a bumper time for by-elections. Still time to get a few more in and break the at least 30 year record.

    Year/by-elections
    23 - 7 (so far)
    22 - 6
    21 - 6
    20 - 0
    19 - 3
    18 - 2
    17 - 2
    16 - 7
    15 - 1
    14 - 5
    13 - 2
    12 - 7
    11 - 6
    10 - 0
    09 - 2
    08 - 5
    07 - 2
    06 - 3
    05 - 2
    04 - 2
    03 - 1
    02 - 1
    01 - 1
    00 - 8
    99 - 4
    98 - 0
    97 - 3
    96 - 3
    95 - 4
    94 - 7
    93 - 2
    92 - 0
    91 - 7
    90 - 9
    89 - 5
    88 - 3
    87 - 2
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,932

    Would be extraordinary if Labour gained a seat like this, I'm struggling to see it. This should be an absolutely rock solid Tory seat given the party's current positioning and voter base - as evident in the 2019 result (2/3 of the votes go blue FFS). However, I think Labour will cut the Tory majority enough to still suggest a majority at the next GE.

    On the Selby swing Labour would win it and it is a by election with a high protest vote therefore
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    edited September 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    I think since Covid the maths of town size to hinterland population has shifted. That's alongside other factors (Canterbury centre is attractive, Ashford's "attractions" are the out of town outlet shops). Think back to your GCSE geography and Christaller's central place theory. This posited that for a given population you get a node, and for every x number of nodes you get a bigger one and so ad infinitum. Neat maths explaining the pattern of settlement.

    I suspect Hereford high town is simply too big now for the population catchment area. All it takes is either a bit of rural depopulation, or a small shift in spending habits, and whole swathes of shops can become unviable making the high street empty out. Whereas a town with just a tiny bit bigger hinterland population might mean the shops are just about economically viable and so the units remain full.

    You see this in rural France and Italy a lot. Lots of smaller or less attractive towns empty out and become ghost settlements with one or two boulangeries and a tabac. But one town in the region, usually the prettiest or best connected one, thrives because it gets all the business from the others.

    EDIT: to add, this is not wholly new. I did my GCSE geography project on the decline of Rugby town centre, the hypothesis being it was being cannibalised by out of town shopping as well as the recession. That was back in 1992. I vividly remember the town centre being full of boarded up premises at the time. Things were looking a lot better by the noughties but they've probably declined again since.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    A random guess - the success or failure of a town centre in a mix of the physical layout, the environment and the customer base using it.

    Simply saying pedestrianised or not doesn’t tell us much.

    For example, tourism can create the “bustle” that makes a place feel busy and alive. Which combined with pedestrianisation etc…
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    High streets are dying. May be time to repurpose and convert these into bedsits and flats ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    A ship that has sailed. Wasn't there a teacher training college at the top of Aylestone Hill? Closed down in the early eighties and everyone did their PGCEs and teaching certificates in Worcester or Carleon instead, and they both subsequently became Universities.

    I suppose that might have been a result of the Hereford and Worcester County Council amalgamation. Worcester got the cream.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Well quite, it’s not suddenly an issue and many of these places have been like it for years. It’s one of the main drivers of Brexit.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Millions of families with school age children around the country will be receiving messages like this one which just dropped into my inbox:

    "Dear Parent/Carer,

    As mentioned at the end of last term, we were excited about the new and exciting clubs we would be offering our families for the autumn term.

    As some areas across our school are now out of action due to the identification of RAAC in the ceilings, we have had to review our club offering and we now have no choice but to reduce the number of clubs that we are able to offer at this time.

    This is currently being reviewed and we are having to make a number of changes to adapt to the limited spaces that we currently have available. Once this has been completed, we will inform parents about our reduced club offering as soon as we can, but for now, please note that bookings for clubs will not go live today as previously informed."

    Not that many parents of school aged children were planning on voting Tory anyway...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    More fool them and the exception that proves the rule. Down at heel places felt desperate enough to do anything, press any red button because things couldn't have been worse for them so they had nothing to lose. The fact that seven years (and I'll bet the next 20) won't change much is a testament to the betrayal of them by those who touted Brexit as the solution to their problems.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    The people here feel poorer and they are obviously fatter. It is that obvious - obesity rates are a major indicator

    On the upside I reckon Hereford will bounce back. It is fundamentally a handsome cathedral city surrounded by beautiful countryside. Almost entirely unspoiled in the centre. It needs TLC but it’s not doomed. It has endured 1500 years, after all
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    An interesting consideration is how much the old Leave/Remain division still has an effect on British politics. So lacklustre was Brexit in its delivery that I can easily imagine it now being a minus for the Tories even amongst those who still support it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    "Ex-Met officers admit sending racist WhatsApps"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-66743803
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    TimS said:

    Millions of families with school age children around the country will be receiving messages like this one which just dropped into my inbox:

    "Dear Parent/Carer,

    As mentioned at the end of last term, we were excited about the new and exciting clubs we would be offering our families for the autumn term.

    As some areas across our school are now out of action due to the identification of RAAC in the ceilings, we have had to review our club offering and we now have no choice but to reduce the number of clubs that we are able to offer at this time.

    This is currently being reviewed and we are having to make a number of changes to adapt to the limited spaces that we currently have available. Once this has been completed, we will inform parents about our reduced club offering as soon as we can, but for now, please note that bookings for clubs will not go live today as previously informed."

    Not that many parents of school aged children were planning on voting Tory anyway...

    Hm, an interesting final observation!
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    oops pasted entirely the wrong link there! This is the one:

    https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/19512815.herefordshires-two-decades-decline-laid-bare/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Another by-election where the Lib Dems will absolutely assert their right to be the unconditional challenger, with Labour having no chance of taking the seat?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited September 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Bath too. Bath is always rammed (too rammed tbh).

    Obviously Bath will be going down the plug-hole now they have a Clean Air Zone but so far it seems to be as full as ever.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Most places were Leave areas!

    But there may well be some correlation - areas doing worse were generally more Leavy, I think, which makes sense. If you don't like the direction of travel, why not do something to change it.

    As for the sudden changes, it happens. A few stores close and suddenly an area looks run-down. Stores with options get out to better looking places and more shoppers go elsewhere and more stores close. My home town has, since a second opened in my childhood, two main shopping precincts. When the new one opened, the old one emptied in what seemed like weeks, but was probably months or years. A few years back the old one was extensively tarted up and now the 'new' one is half empty. Sometimes it's whole towns that get the heave-ho if there are competing options nearby.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    edited September 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Similarly, look at Altrincham:


    That said, pedestrianisation is not always successful. Sometimes you lose 'busyness'. A good example of a hybrid solution is Fishergate in Preston.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    One could add Yeovile to the list.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    Looks like a lot of town/city centres I know. Basically, people don't go to the town centre to do regular shopping anymore. If you've got nothing else to bring people in, then you're screwed. Places that are doing well have something else going on. Almost by definition that something else is hard to replicate and will be less ubiquitous than shopping. Hence a lot of areas doing badly, a few areas doing well.
    To do well you need to have at least one of the following imho:

    Beautiful historical centre or some other big tourist draw

    High population density with a lot of young families to guarantee footfall

    A lot of wealthy people, ideally retirees with time on their hands

    A lot of students

    A concentration of independent shops that have created a sustainable ecosystem of demand.

    If you haven't got any of these and can't find a way of getting them, just give up. Convert the area to housing, we need housing. We don't need street furniture and charity shops.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    edited September 2023

    Would be extraordinary if Labour gained a seat like this, I'm struggling to see it. This should be an absolutely rock solid Tory seat given the party's current positioning and voter base - as evident in the 2019 result (2/3 of the votes go blue FFS). However, I think Labour will cut the Tory majority enough to still suggest a majority at the next GE.

    It's a mistake to look only at the most recent general election results. Before that it was slightly more Labour than average, and it's always been in Labour hands whenever the party has formed a government. At the 1996 by-election it was Lab 60%, Con 28% (on slightly more favourable boundaries for the Tories).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    The people here feel poorer and they are obviously fatter. It is that obvious - obesity rates are a major indicator

    On the upside I reckon Hereford will bounce back. It is fundamentally a handsome cathedral city surrounded by beautiful countryside. Almost entirely unspoiled in the centre. It needs TLC but it’s not doomed. It has endured 1500 years, after all
    I would hazard that a good 50% of the town centre emptying we're currently seeing in most places is down to the economics of inflation, business rates and the tight labour market. Cyclical rather than structural, in other words. So I expect places like Hereford will bounce back in a way some of the post-industrial towns of the North and Midlands won't.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TimS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    I think since Covid the maths of town size to hinterland population has shifted. That's alongside other factors (Canterbury centre is attractive, Ashford's "attractions" are the out of town outlet shops). Think back to your GCSE geography and Christaller's central place theory. This posited that for a given population you get a node, and for every x number of nodes you get a bigger one and so ad infinitum. Neat maths explaining the pattern of settlement.

    I suspect Hereford high town is simply too big now for the population catchment area. All it takes is either a bit of rural depopulation, or a small shift in spending habits, and whole swathes of shops can become unviable making the high street empty out. Whereas a town with just a tiny bit bigger hinterland population might mean the shops are just about economically viable and so the units remain full.

    You see this in rural France and Italy a lot. Lots of smaller or less attractive towns empty out and become ghost settlements with one or two boulangeries and a tabac. But one town in the region, usually the prettiest or best connected one, thrives because it gets all the business from the others.

    EDIT: to add, this is not wholly new. I did my GCSE geography project on the decline of Rugby town centre, the hypothesis being it was being cannibalised by out of town shopping as well as the recession. That was back in 1992. I vividly remember the town centre being full of boarded up premises at the time. Things were looking a lot better by the noughties but they've probably declined again since.
    I’m on my way to rural France next week. Very much a French version of Hereford/Salop. It will be an interesting and direct comparison
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    I think since Covid the maths of town size to hinterland population has shifted. That's alongside other factors (Canterbury centre is attractive, Ashford's "attractions" are the out of town outlet shops). Think back to your GCSE geography and Christaller's central place theory. This posited that for a given population you get a node, and for every x number of nodes you get a bigger one and so ad infinitum. Neat maths explaining the pattern of settlement.

    I suspect Hereford high town is simply too big now for the population catchment area. All it takes is either a bit of rural depopulation, or a small shift in spending habits, and whole swathes of shops can become unviable making the high street empty out. Whereas a town with just a tiny bit bigger hinterland population might mean the shops are just about economically viable and so the units remain full.

    You see this in rural France and Italy a lot. Lots of smaller or less attractive towns empty out and become ghost settlements with one or two boulangeries and a tabac. But one town in the region, usually the prettiest or best connected one, thrives because it gets all the business from the others.

    EDIT: to add, this is not wholly new. I did my GCSE geography project on the decline of Rugby town centre, the hypothesis being it was being cannibalised by out of town shopping as well as the recession. That was back in 1992. I vividly remember the town centre being full of boarded up premises at the time. Things were looking a lot better by the noughties but they've probably declined again since.
    I’m on my way to rural France next week. Very much a French version of Hereford/Salop. It will be an interesting and direct comparison
    The ridiculous September canicule should be over by mid next week there. Mid to high 30s in central France all this week.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    It's not just laziness that makes people drive, it's efficiency too. Driving is simply the most efficient mode of transportation. Especially where it matters for things like families.

    An individual can walk or cycle or get the train or whatever. The key for me as a parent of young kids is not just what can I do but what can they do too. I can strap my kids into their car seat and then drive where we need to be and their legs can then walk around where we need to walk, rather than being knackered just by getting there.

    The key is to cater for everyone's needs. Not everyone has the same requirements. One size fits all doesn't work.

    Pedestrianisation can work very well with driving too, if done smartly. Have a pedestrianised zone adjacent to easily accessed roads and parking. Do it right, people can drive to the parking then walk a minimal appropriate distance safely in a pedestrianised area.

    The two things supplement and complement each other then, they're not alternatives.

    Trying to instead foist one solution on everyone. You must drive or you must not, is the problem.
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    edited September 2023
    From the Telegraph:

    "Prince William given surprise kiss from 'Gazza'
    The Prince of Wales was visiting Pret A Manger in Bournemouth to highlight his new
    homelessness scheme when Paul Gascoigne turned up"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/07/prince-william-paul-gascoigne-homewards-homelessness/

    First reaction: Gazza's still alive?! Also, amused that Gazza is put in quotation marks.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Just one council area in the West Midlands region voted Remain, which was Warwick by 59% to 41%, (as predicted by my spreadsheet before it happened. 😊) In the East Midlands it was two council areas: Leicester and Rushcliffe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#West_Midlands
    I still owe you a beer or several for that spreadsheet, made me a bag of sand on the night. Hopefully we will one day meet.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Would be extraordinary if Labour gained a seat like this, I'm struggling to see it. This should be an absolutely rock solid Tory seat given the party's current positioning and voter base - as evident in the 2019 result (2/3 of the votes go blue FFS). However, I think Labour will cut the Tory majority enough to still suggest a majority at the next GE.

    It's a mistake to look only at the most recent general election results. Before that it was slightly more Labour than average, and it's always been in Labour hands whenever the party has formed a government. At the 1996 by-election it was Lab 60%, Con 28% (on slightly more favourable boundaries for the Tories).
    But isn't it precisely the kind of area that has been trending towards the Tories in the last few elections? I don't know the area at all but that's the impression I have. I think it's entirely likely that Labour gains office with a majority without gaining this kind of seat. But I'm speaking from a position of ignorance and as always am here to learn things.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    I think since Covid the maths of town size to hinterland population has shifted. That's alongside other factors (Canterbury centre is attractive, Ashford's "attractions" are the out of town outlet shops). Think back to your GCSE geography and Christaller's central place theory. This posited that for a given population you get a node, and for every x number of nodes you get a bigger one and so ad infinitum. Neat maths explaining the pattern of settlement.

    I suspect Hereford high town is simply too big now for the population catchment area. All it takes is either a bit of rural depopulation, or a small shift in spending habits, and whole swathes of shops can become unviable making the high street empty out. Whereas a town with just a tiny bit bigger hinterland population might mean the shops are just about economically viable and so the units remain full.

    You see this in rural France and Italy a lot. Lots of smaller or less attractive towns empty out and become ghost settlements with one or two boulangeries and a tabac. But one town in the region, usually the prettiest or best connected one, thrives because it gets all the business from the others.

    EDIT: to add, this is not wholly new. I did my GCSE geography project on the decline of Rugby town centre, the hypothesis being it was being cannibalised by out of town shopping as well as the recession. That was back in 1992. I vividly remember the town centre being full of boarded up premises at the time. Things were looking a lot better by the noughties but they've probably declined again since.
    I’m on my way to rural France next week. Very much a French version of Hereford/Salop. It will be an interesting and direct comparison
    Which region?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    The people here feel poorer and they are obviously fatter. It is that obvious - obesity rates are a major indicator

    On the upside I reckon Hereford will bounce back. It is fundamentally a handsome cathedral city surrounded by beautiful countryside. Almost entirely unspoiled in the centre. It needs TLC but it’s not doomed. It has endured 1500 years, after all
    It could probably do with a younger, more diverse, aspiring community to try to drive the place forward.

    Some younger, entrepreneurial, people more in line with modern Britain.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    edited September 2023
    1997 election, Lab vote:

    Tamworth 52%
    Mid Beds 33%

    2001

    Tamworth 49%
    Mid Beds 30%
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    It's not just laziness that makes people drive, it's efficiency too. Driving is simply the most efficient mode of transportation. Especially where it matters for things like families.

    An individual can walk or cycle or get the train or whatever. The key for me as a parent of young kids is not just what can I do but what can they do too. I can strap my kids into their car seat and then drive where we need to be and their legs can then walk around where we need to walk, rather than being knackered just by getting there.

    The key is to cater for everyone's needs. Not everyone has the same requirements. One size fits all doesn't work.

    Pedestrianisation can work very well with driving too, if done smartly. Have a pedestrianised zone adjacent to easily accessed roads and parking. Do it right, people can drive to the parking then walk a minimal appropriate distance safely in a pedestrianised area.

    The two things supplement and complement each other then, they're not alternatives.

    Trying to instead foist one solution on everyone. You must drive or you must not, is the problem.
    image ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    High streets are dying. May be time to repurpose and convert these into bedsits and flats ?
    Sounds tough, but no one seems to have any ideas which would change the current direction of travel and decline. Turning the clock back won't work, and a lot of places won't have any unique offer to draw people in. At some point it needs new thinking.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,673
    Cookie said:

    From the Telegraph:

    "Prince William given surprise kiss from 'Gazza'
    The Prince of Wales was visiting Pret A Manger in Bournemouth to highlight his new
    homelessness scheme when Paul Gascoigne turned up"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/07/prince-william-paul-gascoigne-homewards-homelessness/

    First reaction: Gazza's still alive?! Also, amused that Gazza is put in quotation marks.

    It's been a while since Paul Gascoigne was in the papers and that is a good sign (for him). Therefore I'm sorry to see this.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    More fool them and the exception that proves the rule. Down at heel places felt desperate enough to do anything, press any red button because things couldn't have been worse for them so they had nothing to lose. The fact that seven years (and I'll bet the next 20) won't change much is a testament to the betrayal of them by those who touted Brexit as the solution to their problems.
    Thats a great rant but bears little relation to reality.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Different screwed-up towns are going to need different solutions.

    For some, it’s that visitors are totally put off by parking problems

    For others, it’s that there’s nothing really worth seeing in the centre.

    For yet more others, it’s a combination of all of the above, and the ease of visiting an outside shopping complex.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,673
    Doing the thread bottom up I've just come across a post extoling at considerable length the merits of driving as a mode of transport. Playing a little game with myself I tried to guess who it was from before getting to the top of it where the name appears. I guessed Bartholomew Roberts. Spot on!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    I'm sure that this has been seen already and commented upon, but just in case it hasn't"


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    edited September 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Doing the thread bottom up I've just come across a post extoling at considerable length the merits of driving as a mode of transport. Playing a little game with myself I tried to guess who it was from before getting to the top of it where the name appears. I guessed Bartholomew Roberts. Spot on!

    As a pirate, presumably extolling the virtues of the Corsair?
  • TSE would love this BBC headline:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-66741245

    "Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary hit with cream pies by climate protesters"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    Looks like a lot of town/city centres I know. Basically, people don't go to the town centre to do regular shopping anymore. If you've got nothing else to bring people in, then you're screwed. Places that are doing well have something else going on. Almost by definition that something else is hard to replicate and will be less ubiquitous than shopping. Hence a lot of areas doing badly, a few areas doing well.
    To do well you need to have at least one of the following imho:

    Beautiful historical centre or some other big tourist draw

    High population density with a lot of young families to guarantee footfall

    A lot of wealthy people, ideally retirees with time on their hands

    A lot of students

    A concentration of independent shops that have created a sustainable ecosystem of demand.

    If you haven't got any of these and can't find a way of getting them, just give up. Convert the area to housing, we need housing. We don't need street furniture and charity shops.
    Lots of reasons why some places are fine and others not. Recently was in N Devon - Barnstaple is fine, shops filled, busy etc. Bideford (8 miles to the west) and Ilfracombe (10 to the north) much less so. It seems likely that businesses will rather go to the successful place, rather than the more run down ones, and its self reinforcing.
    Happily, Ilfracombe did look a bit better than this time last year, so all hope is not lost.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    Sandpit said:

    Different screwed-up towns are going to need different solutions.

    For some, it’s that visitors are totally put off by parking problems

    For others, it’s that there’s nothing really worth seeing in the centre.

    For yet more others, it’s a combination of all of the above, and the ease of visiting an outside shopping complex.

    See for example Teesside park that destroyed Stockton (and Boro's town centre). And St Helen's that removed any reason to go into Bishop Auckland until Jonathan Ruffer started spending millions on museums.

    Got to say he's not liked by everyone as https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jonathan_Ruffer&oldid=1173955944 shows.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    It's not just laziness that makes people drive, it's efficiency too. Driving is simply the most efficient mode of transportation. Especially where it matters for things like families.

    An individual can walk or cycle or get the train or whatever. The key for me as a parent of young kids is not just what can I do but what can they do too. I can strap my kids into their car seat and then drive where we need to be and their legs can then walk around where we need to walk, rather than being knackered just by getting there.

    The key is to cater for everyone's needs. Not everyone has the same requirements. One size fits all doesn't work.

    Pedestrianisation can work very well with driving too, if done smartly. Have a pedestrianised zone adjacent to easily accessed roads and parking. Do it right, people can drive to the parking then walk a minimal appropriate distance safely in a pedestrianised area.

    The two things supplement and complement each other then, they're not alternatives.

    Trying to instead foist one solution on everyone. You must drive or you must not, is the problem.
    Agree. I commute by bike but most places we go with the kids involve the car (even when we go out for a cycle, to get to the cycling location!). Exception is walking/scooting into town when needed.

    Cargo bikes are used a lot for shifting kids around in e.g. the Netherlands though (anecdotal, from visiting friends' town and nearby city, I don't have hard data). But they require good cycling infrastructure - I'd be terrified taking one with small kids on a typical UK road.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Cookie said:

    From the Telegraph:

    "Prince William given surprise kiss from 'Gazza'
    The Prince of Wales was visiting Pret A Manger in Bournemouth to highlight his new
    homelessness scheme when Paul Gascoigne turned up"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/07/prince-william-paul-gascoigne-homewards-homelessness/

    First reaction: Gazza's still alive?! Also, amused that Gazza is put in quotation marks.

    bigger story had it been "surprise kiss from 'Hazza'" :wink:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    The people here feel poorer and they are obviously fatter. It is that obvious - obesity rates are a major indicator

    On the upside I reckon Hereford will bounce back. It is fundamentally a handsome cathedral city surrounded by beautiful countryside. Almost entirely unspoiled in the centre. It needs TLC but it’s not doomed. It has endured 1500 years, after all
    It could probably do with a younger, more diverse, aspiring community to try to drive the place forward.

    Some younger, entrepreneurial, people more in line with modern Britain.
    Remain voters, you mean?
    Who owns those properties? Why is it economically viable for them to leave them empty rather than reduce the rents so that businesses could use them and be profitable?

    The solutions are not just to do with visitors / inhabitants etc but that the rents and rates are too high and so it is impossible for any business to make money locating there.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Portillo did go to Southend though, didn't he?

    And Newport. And Middlesborough. And Stoke. You might be fair re Bognor
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,001
    FPT The previous thread should of course been titled "The SNP no longer top WESTMINSTER party in Scotland". On this poll they are still comfortably ahead in the Holyrood seat projections, and an Indy majority still likely.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    kinabalu said:

    Doing the thread bottom up I've just come across a post extoling at considerable length the merits of driving as a mode of transport. Playing a little game with myself I tried to guess who it was from before getting to the top of it where the name appears. I guessed Bartholomew Roberts. Spot on!

    In all fairness, we all have our hobbyhorses and stylistic quirks. I reckon you can tell most posters by their 'voice'.

    Anyway, his point wasn't wrong. For families - certainly families with young children - driving is generally the easiest and cheapest way of getting about.
    Doesn't necessarily make for a good quality of place, but that isn't the point he was making.

    I remember the first time driving *wasn't* the easiest mode for my family. It was the Greater Manchester Marathon, and the roads around my way had been shut. My kids were roughly 8, 6 and 3. They were old enough that at least the oldest two were perfectly capable of walking the mile or so to the nearest town centre - and indeed in was much more pleasant, and actually no slower than the usual drive, to do so. There was no need to repeatedly shepherd them over side roads where cars might be. I had to pop back later, and used my bike, and again, it was uncommonly pleasant. I briefly wondered about the practicality of a permanent solution. It wouldn't have been any good for going anywhere further afield, of course (apart from anywhere on the tram line). But my quality of life was increased for that day, under those special circumstances.

    The trick is to get that quality of life without killing the ability of people to get around. Which, sadly, is almost impossible to do. Doesn't mean there aren't some wins to be had, however.

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant



    It's not just laziness that makes people drive, it's efficiency too. Driving is simply the most efficient mode of transportation. Especially where it matters for things like families.

    An individual can walk or cycle or get the train or whatever. The key for me as a parent of young kids is not just what can I do but what can they do too. I can strap my kids into their car seat and then drive where we need to be and their legs can then walk around where we need to walk, rather than being knackered just by getting there.

    The key is to cater for everyone's needs. Not everyone has the same requirements. One size fits all doesn't work.

    Pedestrianisation can work very well with driving too, if done smartly. Have a pedestrianised zone adjacent to easily accessed roads and parking. Do it right, people can drive to the parking then walk a minimal appropriate distance safely in a pedestrianised area.

    The two things supplement and complement each other then, they're not alternatives.

    Trying to instead foist one solution on everyone. You must drive or you must not, is the problem.
    The issue with the "driving is the most efficient mode" argument is that for that to be true we had to bend all of our infrastructure and design to make it true. If we had better public transport, it might not be true. If we invested in buses and trains what we've invested in roads and motorways, it might not be true. In terms of space and resources, it certainly isn't true; replace a car with 3 people in it with a coach or bus that can hold 30 or 60 and lots of traffic disappears. Sure, outside of London or an urban centre you're lucky if your public transport runs past 8pm and is more regular than every 30 mins, but that is a choice in response to the prioritisation of cars.

    Pedestrianisation of CBDs, on the other hand, has lots of evidence behind it as increasing footfall (even if anecdotally many shopkeepers disagree) in shops and markets.

    In my perfect utopia (sigh) we'd have fewer people eligible to own cars (blue badge holders, people with specific jobs, and maybe those in the first few years of having a child) and much much more investment in regular public transport (provided dirt cheap or free). Indeed, many places are recognising the significance of public transport and its economic impact and are doing the second bit - with some towns / cities making local buses free (because the economic growth of workers having the ability to travel makes up for the cost of running the services) or much cheaper (compare Barcelona where the tube there is 1 euro for an all day ticket, and the London tube which is much more).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Heathener said:

    I'm sure that this has been seen already and commented upon, but just in case it hasn't"


    1996 would have been much more impressive as I expect it came from a much higher Labour starting point. As OLB comments, Tamworth feels like exactly the sort of Tory-trending seat that might buck the national trend.
  • Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    60%:40% Leave:Remain
    Ludlow and Shrewsbury were both Leave areas as well.
    Hereford has been steadily slipping down in the county GDP/capita tables for the last twenty years & now lies near the bottom of the table according to: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/07/another-commons-by-election-in-the-offing/

    Why that has happened is the key question, but I imagine you can trace a direct line between the fall in income & the state of the county town.
    The people here feel poorer and they are obviously fatter. It is that obvious - obesity rates are a major indicator

    On the upside I reckon Hereford will bounce back. It is fundamentally a handsome cathedral city surrounded by beautiful countryside. Almost entirely unspoiled in the centre. It needs TLC but it’s not doomed. It has endured 1500 years, after all
    It could probably do with a younger, more diverse, aspiring community to try to drive the place forward.

    Some younger, entrepreneurial, people more in line with modern Britain.
    Remain voters, you mean?
    Who owns those properties? Why is it economically viable for them to leave them empty rather than reduce the rents so that businesses could use them and be profitable?

    The solutions are not just to do with visitors / inhabitants etc but that the rents and rates are too high and so it is impossible for any business to make money locating there.
    In many towns the slack is taken up by vape shops, tattoo parlours and nail bars. The extraordinary thing (to me) is that none of them seem to lack customers.
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
    Railway station.

    I should report you to the Rail Forums moderators for use of inappropriate language.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
    Me too. Long time ago for Stoke - I only remember the Spitfire in the museum and the way the ceramic gallery was designed with a circular wall to do whatever modern architects call "pretending to be a kiln wall". Must have been a sod - but possibly a financial jackpot - for the display case makers who had to make precisely the same curve, a bit further in, most of the way around.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
    Railway station.

    I should report you to the Rail Forums moderators for use of inappropriate language.
    I always say 'train station' due to my wife mocking my pronunciation of railway :cry: :

    Apparently my southern accent makes it 'rarlway'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
    Railway station.

    I should report you to the Rail Forums moderators for use of inappropriate language.
    I always say 'train station' due to my wife mocking my pronunciation of railway :cry: :

    Apparently my southern accent makes it 'rarlway'
    Call it a plateway if you want to be truly authentic northerner.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited September 2023
    Wow, now some theatres are affected by RAAC. The end of the world is truly nigh.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66738806

    Incidentally, if there's an uglier theatre than Dartford's Orchard Theatre I would (not) like to see it:

    image
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    I'm sulking that no one spotted my witty Bath puns at 2:52pm, just saying.
  • sarissa said:

    FPT The previous thread should of course been titled "The SNP no longer top WESTMINSTER party in Scotland". On this poll they are still comfortably ahead in the Holyrood seat projections, and an Indy majority still likely.

    Is still the SNP plan to use the next Westminster general election as a de facto Indyef2?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    sarissa said:

    FPT The previous thread should of course been titled "The SNP no longer top WESTMINSTER party in Scotland". On this poll they are still comfortably ahead in the Holyrood seat projections, and an Indy majority still likely.

    Is still the SNP plan to use the next Westminster general election as a de facto Indyef2?
    Only if they win.
  • Wow, now some theatres are affected by RAAC. The end of the world is truly nigh.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66738806

    Perhaps this is how we should deal with the problem of crap towns. Declare them a RAAC risk, move everyone out and demolish them.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,858

    I'm sulking that no one spotted my witty Bath puns at 2:52pm, just saying.

    Worse, maybe we did spot them.
  • sarissa said:

    FPT The previous thread should of course been titled "The SNP no longer top WESTMINSTER party in Scotland". On this poll they are still comfortably ahead in the Holyrood seat projections, and an Indy majority still likely.

    Is still the SNP plan to use the next Westminster general election as a de facto Indyef2?
    Only if they win.
    Oh you cynic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    The Media / powers that be are starting to see (and plot for) a Labour Government


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    Sign of the times.....

    The Spectator will be holding a party at the Labour Party conference for the first time in a generation, if I recall correctly....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,717
    Colchester seems to be eviscerating it's town centre, with all the big stores going to perimeter shopping centres.
    Massive new estates on the North and South, too, with not a shop or a pub to be seen.
  • Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Maybe everyone's at work?
    No. This is weird, and sad

    This is High Town, the premier retail street. Empty empty empty



    The guy at Tanners wine merchant (based in thriving Shrewsbury, but which branches all down the Marches) warned me that Hereford is looking bad. He was right

    @BartholomewRoberts will be pleased to hear that James Tanner has a theory for the apparent random declines. He says they’re not random - he reckons towns which heavily pedestrianised (Hereford) are now suffering badly cause covid made people lazy and they can’t be bothered to walk into town centres. If they can drive they come

    I don’t believe it: I’m sure there is something else at work. There is plenty of parking in Hereford. But that’s the opinion of a retailer/merchant

    My observations of Canterbury and Ashford would not support the “pedestrianisation” theory. Canterbury, pedestrianised for 40 years, is doing better in every conceivable metric over Ashford. It’s tourists and students that tip the balance.
    Yes. Hereford could really use a university
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Hereford is in an absolutely shocking state. Like a rural town in Pennsylvania

    At least a third of the town centre properties are empty. Streets are deserted in areas. Sense of real deprivation. And this is in bright warm sun

    I was here in feb 2022 and it felt bustling - in the cold. What has happened in the intervening year and a half? Covid belatedly impacting? Inflation?

    It feels almost random. Ludlow is doing OK. Shrewsbury is thriving and crowded. Hereford is fucked

    🤷‍♂️

    Oh. Now you've noticed. Now go to Stoke. Newport. Middlesbrough. Bognor. Southend. Enough of this artisanal Michael Portillo rubbish. Go somewhere crap.
    Stop moaning like a tuppeny brass. I go where my work takes me, and honestly report what I see. You are free to ignore it

    As a matter of interest, does your work take you to Middlesbrough or Stoke, ever?
    Been to both! Stoke's train station not bad all :)
    Railway station.

    I should report you to the Rail Forums moderators for use of inappropriate language.
    I always say 'train station' due to my wife mocking my pronunciation of railway :cry: :

    Apparently my southern accent makes it 'rarlway'
    You can always console yourself with a larte while waiting for your train.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited September 2023
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/07/woking-plans-to-cut-funds-for-care-arts-sports-and-toilets-to-plug-deficit

    How can any such cuts ever recover £1.2bn?

    How can one community be expected to endure 30 years of zero leisure services to pay for the crackpot decisions of a group of Tory councillors?

    Central Government will have to step in. While they're at it set some firm rules about what councils are and are not allowed to do financially. And place get-rich-quick speculation on the 'Not' list.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,061
    Towns like Hereford would have been, pre-Covid, empioyment, particularly local government and civil service, centres. People that would have travelled from their local smaller town won’t be travelling so much, due to WFH.. If their local town has decent shops and services, such as Ludlow, they will stay local. If their local town is an underresourced dump, they will travel to the nearest decent place. In this case, Ludlow rather than Hereford.
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