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A great resource for all who follow UK politics – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    boulay said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am quick to criticise the police so I just want to say that the Cheshire police deserve praise for the Letby case. It was painstaking and doubtless harrowing and cannot have been easy in any sense at all, especially given the subject matter and the technical expertise needed.

    When the police get it right they deserve our thanks.

    @JohnLilburne made the point near the end of the last thread - why didn't the docs just ring uip the police? I'm not clear about this myself. Obviously, cutting their own throats with GDPR and all that; and the management had told them they were jkust bullying anyway. But is there some formal reason not to, ie does one have to bump it up the management trophic chain and then leave it at that?
    The bullying to get them to shut up seems to have been quite aggressive.

    Calling the police against the wishes of management who’ve threatened you with career ending shit requires some serious stones.
    Isn’t this what Crimestoppers is for? A doctor could contact them and send enough info for them to consider and pass on to police without identifying themself.
    Based on an anonymous tip off, what are the police gonna do? They’ll ring up the hospital. The hospital will say they’ve looked into this and everything’s fine. I don’t know: it’s hard to second guess these things.

    It’s interesting that the police couldn’t really believe it at first. It was only when they saw evidence that a baby must have been deliberately poisoned (because of the particular blood test results) that they seemed to have been persuaded.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,295

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, here’s one for our resident trainspotters.

    What’s significant about this metro station?

    Deepest in Europe.
    Yes. Arsenalna station in Kiev, named for the same reason as the one in Woolwich, deepest underground station and featuring two horrifying escalators.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,171

    Cookie said:

    Big Billy is going to miss the world cup.

    Do the Palace and the Conservative Party employ similar packs of over-promoted, incompetent twits to do their strategic planning?

    NOT penciling in date of World Cup final, in case England's women made it (as indeed they have) is kind of own-goal Harold Wilson made sure NOT to commit in 1966.
    AIRI, Harold Wilson - probably the PM we've had whi was keenest on football up to that point - had to be reminded that the World Cup was on. Football wasn't that big a thing outside of its enthusiasts. Certainly not international football. At least, not until England made it to the quarter finals.
    Nine years before I was born, so I'm going off what Dominic Sandbrook says.
    FWIW, the last football match my Dad went to was, I think, Portugal against Hungary at Old Trafford in the 1966 World Cup. He was clearly interested enough to watch a match, but didn't even watch the final on telly, apart from a few minutes at the end in the window of a television shop in Keswick, where he was on holiday. I know we can't generalise from one man, but this doesn't strike me as an event which had the universal buy-in we might assume.
    From what I've read, Harold Wilson WAS a football fan, though whether more or less so than your uncle, can't say.
    Harold Wilson was definitely more of a fan than my Dad (not uncle!)! He was a keen Huddersfield Town fan. Though that didn't, in those days, necessarily translate into an interest in international football.
  • Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, here’s one for our resident trainspotters.

    What’s significant about this metro station?

    Deepest in Europe.
    The escalator ends in Siberia?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, here’s one for our resident trainspotters.

    What’s significant about this metro station?

    Deepest in Europe.
    Yes. Arsenalna station in Kiev, named for the same reason as the one in Woolwich, deepest underground station and featuring two horrifying escalators.

    Do they have babushka manning the bottom of the escalator, like in Moscow?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,295

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, here’s one for our resident trainspotters.

    What’s significant about this metro station?

    Deepest in Europe.
    Yes. Arsenalna station in Kiev, named for the same reason as the one in Woolwich, deepest underground station and featuring two horrifying escalators.

    Do they have babushka manning the bottom of the escalator, like in Moscow?
    Yup! Presumably ready to catch someone who trips at the top, and takes several minutes to reach the bottom.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited August 2023

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Not read past the first paragraph, but a firm that opened in 2017 is blaming Brexit on going bust?

    Errr does nobody in the Grauniad spot an issue with the timeline?

    The sad reality of enterprise is that about 9/10 businesses fail. And failed businesses want a scapegoat, rather than admit their business model didn't work, or was mismanaged.
    If you had read past the first paragraph the article also cites

    - increased wage costs
    - Competition from multinationals
    - Cost of living resulting in end consumers trading down
    - Shortage of carbon dioxide
    - Increases in prices of hops and barley following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

    Brexit had an impact in that export sales became more difficult (possibly naive of them to be chasing that market given they started in 2017)

    But it seems to have been a small business that didn’t get through the first few years to scale. Sad, but that’s why equity risk is well rewarded


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,659
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, here’s one for our resident trainspotters.

    What’s significant about this metro station?

    Deepest in Europe.
    Yes. Arsenalna station in Kiev, named for the same reason as the one in Woolwich, deepest underground station and featuring two horrifying escalators.

    No regular stairs?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,659
    edited August 2023

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"

    Jesus Christ
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Big Billy is going to miss the world cup.

    Do the Palace and the Conservative Party employ similar packs of over-promoted, incompetent twits to do their strategic planning?

    NOT penciling in date of World Cup final, in case England's women made it (as indeed they have) is kind of own-goal Harold Wilson made sure NOT to commit in 1966.
    AIRI, Harold Wilson - probably the PM we've had whi was keenest on football up to that point - had to be reminded that the World Cup was on. Football wasn't that big a thing outside of its enthusiasts. Certainly not international football. At least, not until England made it to the quarter finals.
    Nine years before I was born, so I'm going off what Dominic Sandbrook says.
    FWIW, the last football match my Dad went to was, I think, Portugal against Hungary at Old Trafford in the 1966 World Cup. He was clearly interested enough to watch a match, but didn't even watch the final on telly, apart from a few minutes at the end in the window of a television shop in Keswick, where he was on holiday. I know we can't generalise from one man, but this doesn't strike me as an event which had the universal buy-in we might assume.
    From what I've read, Harold Wilson WAS a football fan, though whether more or less so than your uncle, can't say.
    Harold Wilson was definitely more of a fan than my Dad (not uncle!)! He was a keen Huddersfield Town fan. Though that didn't, in those days, necessarily translate into an interest in international football.
    Your uncle is NOT your father? Good for you!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    An excellent (albeit very long) article on how the lab-leak theory got traction and where it fell down:

    https://quillette.com/2023/08/19/the-lab-leak-illusion/

    Warning - it is very long, but you can dip in and out readily.

    I liked this bit:

    "As Reid explained it, the dispatches were written in “party speak”—“a secret language of Chinese officialdom”—which he was able to decode but which even native speakers of Mandarin could not be expected to understand. Almost as soon as the article was published, however, a more obvious explanation emerged when a number of Chinese speakers read the dispatches for themselves. As it turned out, they were able to understand them just fine and it was Reid who had made a mess of the translation. The supposedly incriminating passage about a biosafety emergency was in fact just political boilerplate about the willingness and readiness of loyal Party officials to meet the challenges of running a BSL-4 lab."
    It this expose, the real reason why "Leon" decided to (yet again) flounce out of PB?

    Seeing as how he made a fucking Feast of Balthazar out of the Lab Leak theory.
    No idea. Not somethging I can comment on. But I was reminded [edit] by the article how many on PB went on and on about Naomi Wolf making a mistake over reading old court case records. That was a simple one off, the sort of thing many of us have done and still wake up and sweat in the night about. But the above, the Chinese secret language, really takes application by comparison.

    I'm still very struck by the case distribution around the wet market. We were talking about the power of simple analusis, dot maps and so on, lately on PB. And the very telling point that those who didn't work at the market biut got covid early lived markedly closer to the market [edit] than those who did. It's like the Shipman dot map (murdering an elderly person conv eniently on the way home) or the Broad Street cholera map.
    Edit: should have added that the Broad St cholera map showed two anomalies. One blank area - turned out to be a brewery whose employees drank from the brewery's own well (or the beer, I suspect). One outlier
    death - turned out to be an old lady who had lived in the area and had moved a little way away, nearer to another pump, but still sent her jmaid to get the water for tea cos she was used to it.
    Believe the old lady lived in Hampstead

  • CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Not read past the first paragraph, but a firm that opened in 2017 is blaming Brexit on going bust?

    Errr does nobody in the Grauniad spot an issue with the timeline?

    The sad reality of enterprise is that about 9/10 businesses fail. And failed businesses want a scapegoat, rather than admit their business model didn't work, or was mismanaged.
    If you had read past the first paragraph the article also cites

    - increased wage costs
    - Competition from multinationals
    - Cost of living resulting in end consumers trading down
    - Shortage of carbon dioxide
    - Increases in prices of hops and barley following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

    Brexit had an impact in that export sales became more difficult (possibly naive of them to be chasing that market given they started in 2017)

    But it seems to have been a small business that didn’t get through the first few years to scale. Sad, but that’s why equity risk is well rewarded


    Yes those sound like the real reasons the firm went bust, which the Grauniad chose to disregard in it's lead and push Brexit (which had already been voted for when the firm was founded) as the reason instead.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    carnforth said:

    New Statesman statement on conviction of former editor on illegal pornography charges:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/uncategorized/2023/08/peter-wilby-a-statement

    Also previously editor of the Independent on Sunday.

    Hundreds of child abuse images over many years.

    Why is he not in jail?
    Presumably as no previous convictions however he got a suspended 10 month jail sentence, he was not given no sentence
    In light of this morning's discussion on capital punishment, I wonder if 'suspended' should be changed to 'deferred' to avoid confusion?
    Ditto "hung parliaments" (OK I know it's "hanged" that Mr Pierrepoint made people but it's still jarring).
    Are you saying that criminals shouldn’t hang out with each other?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    edited August 2023
    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    edited August 2023

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc.
    out there.
    Madam Secretary…

    (I thought it sounded a bit odd to be honest, did a quick Google search and it popped up in the results… no more authority than that. It’s still a good quote regardless of the attribution)

    Edit: first answer on this link looks well researched

    https://www.reddit.com/r/quotes/comments/28inox/democracy_is_two_wolves_and_a_sheep_voting_on/
  • viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced

    Where does the law, or CPS guidance, or Police guidance say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    Cookie said:

    Big Billy is going to miss the world cup.

    Do the Palace and the Conservative Party employ similar packs of over-promoted, incompetent twits to do their strategic planning?

    NOT penciling in date of World Cup final, in case England's women made it (as indeed they have) is kind of own-goal Harold Wilson made sure NOT to commit in 1966.
    AIRI, Harold Wilson - probably the PM we've had whi was keenest on football up to that point - had to be reminded that the World Cup was on. Football wasn't that big a thing outside of its enthusiasts. Certainly not international football. At least, not until England made it to the quarter finals.
    Nine years before I was born, so I'm going off what Dominic Sandbrook says.
    FWIW, the last football match my Dad went to was, I think, Portugal against Hungary at Old Trafford in the 1966 World Cup. He was clearly interested enough to watch a match, but didn't even watch the final on telly, apart from a few minutes at the end in the window of a television shop in Keswick, where he was on holiday. I know we can't generalise from one man, but this doesn't strike me as an event which had the universal buy-in we might assume.
    From what I've read, Harold Wilson WAS a football fan, though whether more or less so than your uncle, can't say.
    This is a fictional conversation, but it encapsulates the necessity of pretense
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,084

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    The voters get a chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties every five years.
  • CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc.
    out there.
    Madam Secretary…

    (I thought it sounded a bit odd to be honest, did a quick Google search and it popped up in the results… no more authority than that. It’s still a good quote regardless of the attribution)

    Will personally attribute this quote to Lord Stillwater . . . which sounds authoritative AND impressive.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,031
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    An excellent (albeit very long) article on how the lab-leak theory got traction and where it fell down:

    https://quillette.com/2023/08/19/the-lab-leak-illusion/

    Warning - it is very long, but you can dip in and out readily.

    I liked this bit:

    "As Reid explained it, the dispatches were written in “party speak”—“a secret language of Chinese officialdom”—which he was able to decode but which even native speakers of Mandarin could not be expected to understand. Almost as soon as the article was published, however, a more obvious explanation emerged when a number of Chinese speakers read the dispatches for themselves. As it turned out, they were able to understand them just fine and it was Reid who had made a mess of the translation. The supposedly incriminating passage about a biosafety emergency was in fact just political boilerplate about the willingness and readiness of loyal Party officials to meet the challenges of running a BSL-4 lab."
    It this expose, the real reason why "Leon" decided to (yet again) flounce out of PB?

    Seeing as how he made a fucking Feast of Balthazar out of the Lab Leak theory.
    No idea. Not somethging I can comment on. But I was reminded how many on PB went on and on about Naomi Wolf making a mistake over reading old court case records. That was a simple one off, the sort of thing many of us have done and still wake up and sweat in the night about. But the above, the Chinese secret language, really takes application by comparison.

    I'm still very struck by the case distribution around the wet market. We were talking about the power of simple analusis, dot maps and so on, lately on PB. And the very telling point that those who didn't work at the market biut got covid early lived markedly closer to the market. It's like the Shipman dot map (murdering an elderly person conv eniently on the way home) or the Broad Street cholera map.
    If it was a flounce, shouldn't I have notirced?

    Have to admit that "flounce" makes me think of a person leaving in a huff waving a feather duster threateningly in a Bertie Wooster novel.
    Hadn't noticed it eiother myself. BTW have amended to make cxlear that the thing that reminded me re Ms Wolf was the article.
    In the case of Naomi Wolf:

    1) It was not 'a simple mistake.' It was a significant error caused by either lack of contextual research or deliberate fraud.

    2) It was one of several such 'mistakes' later uncovered in her thesis, all of which oddly supported her otherwise untenable argument but not one of which she has ever actually accepted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,031

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    I believe it was Isaac Newton said that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    Where does the law, or CPS guidance, or Police guidance say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?

    Splitting your (@BartholomewRoberts) reply into two parts:

    @BR1 "Where does...CPS guidance, or Police guidance say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?" I have no idea and I don't care. Laws should be enforced. I can get very Dredd about these things. As you can tell, I don't get invited to many parties.

    @BR2 "Where does the law...say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?" Unless a statute of limitations is specifically encoded in law, the law applies regardless.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    It's 89.6%.

    [ducks]

    :)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    The voters get a chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading
    political parties every five years.
    Not on a single issue. That’s exactly the point. A general election is about selecting a government. Until 2016, for all of my adult life, all of the top 3/4 political parties were in favour of remaining in the EU.

    Unless someone was willing to vote for ukip or Veritas, the Referendum Party or the BNP (and there are lots of good reasons for not wanting to vote for any of those parties) there was no way to support leaving the EU at a general election.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    I believe it was Isaac Newton said that.
    In a conversation with Lincoln, apparently
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,745
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    It's 89.6%.

    [ducks]

    :)
    89.65 on average
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    viewcode said:

    Where does the law, or CPS guidance, or Police guidance say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?

    Splitting your (@BartholomewRoberts) reply into two parts:

    @BR1 "Where does...CPS guidance, or Police guidance say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?" I have no idea and I don't care. Laws should be enforced. I can get very Dredd about these things. As you can tell, I don't get invited to many parties.

    @BR2 "Where does the law...say people should be arrested for saying they did something 20 years ago?" Unless a statute of limitations is specifically encoded in law, the law applies regardless.
    You need a reasonable chance of conviction. You arrest someone, they can just say, “Oh, I made that up for an interview to sound cool.” Be practical: this isn’t going to go anywhere.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    It's 89.6%.

    [ducks]

    :)
    That’s false precision
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
  • ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    I believe it was Isaac Newton said that.
    Fun fact, Isaac Newton was obsessed with big breasts, he even admitted it.

    'The greater the mass, the greater the force of attraction.'
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,501
    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
  • viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    It's 89.6%.

    [ducks]

    :)
    89.65 on average
    that's just mean!
  • This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a
    maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    A friend of mine had been an accountant all his life and when he retired went to Mansfield College for a history graduate degree. Very much enjoyed it. They like people with different experiences as it adds to the group discussion
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,367
    edited August 2023

    This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207

    Slightly better on seats for Rishi and the Tories than 1997 on that poll on the new boundaries:

    Labour 397
    Conservatives 178
    LDs 28
    SNP 24

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=41&LIB=11&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Reform on the slide!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,025

    This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207

    My immediate observation is it's a much lower share of the vote for Conservative-Labour combined than some other polls. R&W last Monday had 76% voting Con/Lab, More in Common 73% and Omnisis 72% so 67% looks an outlier.

    The LD and Reform numbers are consistent with some other polls - the Green number not far off nuy that still lesves 6% for Nationalists and any other minor parties. The swing from Conservative to Labour is 13.5% so still enough to win big. The swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat is 9%.

    With tactical voting and Reform candidates likely to be spoilers in many seats, it still looks bleak for the Conservatives who face being caught the Reform rock and the tactical voting hard place.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,355

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a
    maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    A friend of mine had been an accountant all his life and when he retired went to Mansfield College for a history graduate degree. Very much enjoyed it. They like people with different experiences as it adds to the group discussion
    Retired High Court judge became an undergraduate:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2003/nov/11/students.news#:~:text=The distinguished former high court,at the age of 76.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,029
    Thanks to OGH and David Cowling.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    edited August 2023

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    The voters get a chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading
    political parties every five years.
    Not on a single issue. That’s exactly the point. A general election is about selecting a government. Until 2016, for all of my adult life, all of the top 3/4 political parties were in favour of remaining in the EU.

    Unless someone was willing to vote for ukip or Veritas, the Referendum Party or the BNP (and there are lots of good reasons for not wanting to vote for any of those parties) there was no way to support leaving the EU at a general election.
    You’ve listed several parties you could have voted for. UKIP began winning significant numbers of seats, and even their vote tallies without winning seats exerted democratic pressure. The Referendum Party before then won the fourth most votes at the 1997 general election, and they didn’t have the same right-wing baggage on other policy issues.

    You are mistaken, however, in suggesting those were the only Eurosceptic options. There were other parties that also favoured leaving the EU. The Greens were firmly anti-EU in the 1980s and into the 1990s. Even later, they weren’t proposing leaving, but we’re still very critical. I believe both the twice recreated SDP and the recreated Liberal Party were and are also anti-EU. The DUP, TUV and PBP were all anti-EU in Northern Ireland.

    I don’t know when your adult life began, but Labour opposed EU membership from 1951 to past 1983. So, you have a top 2 party option until 1983. In 1987 and 1992, the 4th biggest party in England, the Greens, were an option for you. In 1997, the 4th placed party nationally was the Referendum Party. In 2001, UKIP were 5th nationally, 4th in England.

    I mean, FPTP sucks and the options are usually limited under it, but that’s a broader problem!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,084

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    The voters get a chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading
    political parties every five years.
    Not on a single issue. That’s exactly the point. A general election is about selecting a government. Until 2016, for all of my adult life, all of the top 3/4 political parties were in favour of remaining in the EU.

    Unless someone was willing to vote for ukip or Veritas, the Referendum Party or the BNP (and there are lots of good reasons for not wanting to vote for any of those parties) there was no way to support leaving the EU at a general election.
    There's plenty I don't agree with here (and actually a few things I do), but the 2015 UKIP manifesto doesn't look that extreme to me

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    AlsoLei said:

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.

    Fair point, but I should imagine that if the criminal confesses his crime in a published book, then the cost of investigation would be nominal.

  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,117
    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    The reality is that a certain amount of consolidation within the UK's craft beer boom was inevitable. When I was at university 15 years ago, you had a choice of mainstream lager, Guinness or Cask Ale.

    Now pubs and supermarkets, at least in major cities and their suburbs, have a much better choice of beer from the likes of Brewdog, Camden Town and Beavertown, to name just three that have only been founded in that period.

    Many of those companies have been bought out by major brewers, but so far the improvement in the quality of beer available hasn't reverted.

    Those that haven't already made it big are going to struggle to within a crowded market.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,600
    edited August 2023
    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,029
    Canadian Conservatives a 94% chance to win most seats according to one of the main projection sites.

    https://338canada.com/federal.htm
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    edited August 2023

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    As for the things called "student loans" - they are forgiven once one becomes 65, or used to be. But DYOR.

    Edit: ignore. Changed the rules since I checked for a relative.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207

    Slightly better on seats for Rishi and the Tories than 1997 on that poll on the new boundaries:

    Labour 397
    Conservatives 178
    LDs 28
    SNP 24

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=41&LIB=11&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Yes. Moral victory.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    As for the things called "student loans" - they are forgiven once one becomes 65, or used to be. But DYOR.
    You only get a student loan for your first undergrad degree (with a few exceptions), so wouldn’t help here.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,025
    Andy_JS said:

    Canadian Conservatives a 94% chance to win most seats according to one of the main projection sites.

    https://338canada.com/federal.htm

    48% to form a majority, 46% a minority so it's far from a foregone conclusion the Conservatives will be able to form a Government if the Liberals, NDP and BQ can get enough seats.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
    You might have benefited in getting accepted from universities getting more money from overseals students.
    Inspector Endeavour Morse did go there, of course.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
    You might have benefited in getting accepted from universities getting more money from overseals students.
    I’m a Kentish Seal. Well, actually I was born in London, but they’re surprisingly accepting of aquatic mammals at Kent grammars.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,143
    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,295
    edited August 2023
    boulay said:

    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
    Trying to find some sort of middle way with drugs, is what’s making the problem so difficult, and why we end up with the drugs being run by organised crime gangs.

    Countries need to decide one extreme or the other - either be Singapore/Bangkok/Dubai, with mandatory prison sentences for small quantities of possession, or else legalise the stuff completely, sell it at pharmacies with known qualities and doses, and tax it to fund recovery services for addicts.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    edited August 2023
    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
    You might have benefited in getting accepted from universities getting more money from overseals students.
    I’m a Kentish Seal. Well, actually I was born in London, but they’re surprisingly accepting of aquatic mammals at Kent grammars.
    Useful advice for anyone meeting DougSeal in London: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/conservation/inspiring-change/get-involved-in-conservation/how-report-seal

    “The Thames Estuary is home to harbour seals, grey seals, harbour porpoises and sometimes even dolphins and whales! ZSL has been collecting public sightings of these marine mammals since 2004 and they are frequently sighted all the way up to Richmond.”
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
    That'a shame. I knew a very nice chap there. Took me to dinner there once.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,025
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    This week's Opinium / @ObserverUK poll

    Labour lead edges up slightly to 15-points, gaining one point to take them to 41% of the vote.

    -Labour 41% (+1)
    -Conservatives 26% (-1)
    -Lib Dems 11% (n/c)
    -Reform UK 9% (-1)
    -Greens 7% (n/c)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1692974722147840207

    Slightly better on seats for Rishi and the Tories than 1997 on that poll on the new boundaries:

    Labour 397
    Conservatives 178
    LDs 28
    SNP 24

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=41&LIB=11&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Yes. Moral victory.
    Though of course Baxter also allows for an element of tactical voting which can easily push that Conservative number down by another 20-30 seats - in 1997 the national swing was about 10%, it was 13% in London and up to 19% in some marginal seats.

    Redfield & Wilton have found tactical voting alive and well so it may be unwise to put too much store in straight line UNS predictions.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,796
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
    That'a shame. I knew a very nice chap there. Took me to dinner there once.
    The friary still exists, but it’s no longer an Oxford college. The students were moved to another small college.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
    Trying to find some sort of middle way with drugs, is what’s making the problem so difficult, and why we end up with the drugs being run by organised crime gangs.

    Countries need to decide one extreme or the other - either be Singapore/Bangkok/Dubai, with mandatory prison sentences for small quantities of possession, or else legalise the stuff completely, sell it at pharmacies with known qualities and doses, and tax it to fund recovery services for addicts.
    My own perceptions are formed by seeing friends lives nearly destroyed by alcohol but very few destroyed by cannabis. Weed didn’t do them any good, of course, but my best friend is a full on alcoholic who has thankfully been sober 20 years. It was pretty dicey before that if he’d make another 3. I’ve no doubt cannabis acted as a gateway for some but I just wonder if that is a lot to do with buyers being forced to associate with elements who will introduce one to stronger stuff if they can.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,501
    boulay said:

    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
    Strong agreement about the downsides of coke - and it's not just the supply chain in the UK, of course: it's also the gangsters who do the importing, the fuckedupness of the countries where it's grown, and the narcoterrorism that it supports.

    I tend to support decriminalisation, but for cocaine in particular this would need global agreements in order to mitigate the worst of the problems, and that's a long way off happening.

    And until it happens, I'd rather people were encouraged to take pretty much anything other than coke, and fully support police action against criminal gangs responsible for importing & wholesale supply within the UK.

    Plus, coke turns people into arseholes. Stay away, kids.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,355
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
    Though Billy Bunter lives on in our hearts and minds.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,250
    edited August 2023
    AlsoLei said:



    Plus, coke turns people into arseholes. Stay away, kids.

    More of a Pepsi fan, personally.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
    Though Billy Bunter lives on in our hearts and minds.
    Talking about Greyfriars and Oxford, I recall this plaque - int eh 1980s in a rubble wasteland where thje *original* Greyfriars was. The burial site of Roger Bacon, no less (and the plaque was, somewhat ironically, stuck on the back wall of M&S food hall).

    http://www.oxfordhistory.org.uk/streets/inscriptions/central/bacon.html
  • AlsoLei said:

    boulay said:

    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
    Strong agreement about the downsides of coke - and it's not just the supply chain in the UK, of course: it's also the gangsters who do the importing, the fuckedupness of the countries where it's grown, and the narcoterrorism that it supports.

    I tend to support decriminalisation, but for cocaine in particular this would need global agreements in order to mitigate the worst of the problems, and that's a long way off happening.

    And until it happens, I'd rather people were encouraged to take pretty much anything other than coke, and fully support police action against criminal gangs responsible for importing & wholesale supply within the UK.

    Plus, coke turns people into arseholes. Stay away, kids.
    Plus, coke turns people into arseholes. Stay away, kids.

    I've always preferred Fanta anyway, despite the rather awkward Nazi background to that one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,143
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,625
    .
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    Do you have a citation for this alleged Franklin quotation, seeing as at least one source uncovered by intensive research (10 seconds googling) says it's fake?

    Addendum - Am NOT saying that YOU are faking, just that there are lots of fake quotes by Founding Fathers, Abe Lincoln, etc., etc. out there.
    "All quotes found online are real"


    Jesus Christ
    89.7% of statistics are made up
    I believe it was Isaac Newton said that.
    Surely he’d have used fractions ?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,600
    AlsoLei said:

    boulay said:

    AlsoLei said:

    viewcode said:

    @viewcode "He's rich. He lives in the right area and knows the right people. Michael Gove admitted to cocaine use and was never even arrested. There are known photos of a famous politician with [redacted] and in the company of [redacted]. The list goes on and on..."

    Thank you all for your replies. My responses are in italics below

    * @Phil "Cocaine use is rampant in the UK & casual use is effectively decriminalised." - If one of my nieces and nephews did it they'd be in jail
    * @BartholomewRoberts "Why the heck would Gove be arrested? Saying "I took drugs 20 years ago" isn't something anyone should be arrested for." - you want to argue for drug criminalisation/legalisation I'd agree with you. But as long as the law is on the books, it should be enforced
    * @Gardenwalker "What does “lives in the right area” mean? He lived in Loughton, apparently." - In or around London. Loughton is within the M25 and has a Tube

    Plenty of people outside of the stereotypical media/politics/finance sets use cocaine these days. The skilled working & lower-middle classes might not use quite as much (it is, after all, still the most expensive commonly-available drug), but I'd be surprised if the proportion of people who've used it at least once in the past year varies much by class.

    And the police put absolutely no effort into enforcement against casual users. I mean, how could they? It'd be a huge waste of resources for very little benefit.
    It’s a weird one. I’m a “live and let live” type and did my stint with coke but had the self control that it was an occasional thing. It’s become a bit naff but also lots of people don’t have the self control to make it an occasional thing.

    On top of the damage it does to people’s health, social lives, jobs, families it does damage to the “little people” they never have to meet. They and their kids are not experiencing the dirtier side of the trade and are cocooned and get their bump at the dinner party or night out and no sweat.

    I find myself often thinking, for the good of society, that maybe even personal use possession should be an immediate 5 year prison sentence because the main market - faced with the risk of losing their job, home and family for the sake of a quick jolly - might think twice and strangle the trade.

    I am torn between the argument for legalising drugs to allow the state to manage and profit from something that is going to happen anyway with the thought that so many people partake in something that’s illegal and it’s given a free pass socially because “it’s ok, we aren’t savage junkies”. Do it if you want but take the punishment because there is a county lines kid whose life is buggered for your acceptable hit.
    Strong agreement about the downsides of coke - and it's not just the supply chain in the UK, of course: it's also the gangsters who do the importing, the fuckedupness of the countries where it's grown, and the narcoterrorism that it supports.

    I tend to support decriminalisation, but for cocaine in particular this would need global agreements in order to mitigate the worst of the problems, and that's a long way off happening.

    And until it happens, I'd rather people were encouraged to take pretty much anything other than coke, and fully support police action against criminal gangs responsible for importing & wholesale supply within the UK.

    Plus, coke turns people into arseholes. Stay away, kids.
    Maybe the punishment should be that if you are caught in possession you have to go and work for six months in a coke factory in the Colombian jungle. Might refocus a few minds.

    As I said before, coke is seriously naff now. Anyone who thinks bringing out a few lines at a dinner party is cool is a reality tv person or a sad and unimaginative cove.
  • DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    Not seen it yet, it would have been my pick personally but as a father to two young girls I was kind of obliged to go to the other half of 'Barbenheimer' first.

    The things you do for your family.

    Actually that film wasn't too bad, it had clearly been written actually with the fact parents would go to see it too in mind and had some quite funny bits.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,625

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
    You might have benefited in getting accepted from universities getting more money from overseals students.
    I’m a Kentish Seal. Well, actually I was born in London, but they’re surprisingly accepting of aquatic mammals at Kent grammars.
    Useful advice for anyone meeting DougSeal in London: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/conservation/inspiring-change/get-involved-in-conservation/how-report-seal

    “The Thames Estuary is home to harbour seals, grey seals, harbour porpoises and sometimes even dolphins and whales! ZSL has been collecting public sightings of these marine mammals since 2004 and they are frequently sighted all the way up to Richmond.”
    No mention of Doug seals there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,031
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    Undergrad or postgrad?

    A PhD demonstrates you’re clever and know how to study. I am imagine your CV as an ex-MP will more than make up for any lack of specific history qualifications. You probably need to write a personal statement explaining that you have informally studied history. But I think you’d be accepted happily.
    I agree. I actually did study BA history at Oxford and if they’ll let me in, they should roll out the red carpet for you.
    You might have benefited in getting accepted from universities getting more money from overseals students.
    I’m a Kentish Seal. Well, actually I was born in London, but they’re surprisingly accepting of aquatic mammals at Kent grammars.
    Useful advice for anyone meeting DougSeal in London: https://www.zsl.org/what-we-do/conservation/inspiring-change/get-involved-in-conservation/how-report-seal

    “The Thames Estuary is home to harbour seals, grey seals, harbour porpoises and sometimes even dolphins and whales! ZSL has been collecting public sightings of these marine mammals since 2004 and they are frequently sighted all the way up to Richmond.”
    No mention of Doug seals there.
    They prefer an orderly Kew.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,355

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    Not seen it yet, it would have been my pick personally but as a father to two young girls I was kind of obliged to go to the other half of 'Barbenheimer' first.

    The things you do for your family.

    Actually that film wasn't too bad, it had clearly been written actually with the fact parents would go to see it too in mind and had some quite funny bits.
    I enjoyed the trailer so much (while waiting for Oppenheimer) I felt the full movie could be disappointing by comparison. Trailers nowadays seem to encapsulate the most memorable parts of a movie into 90 seconds. TLDR indeed.
  • Being serious, while I think that all drugs should be legalised and treated as a taxed healthcare issue rather than a law and order issue, with their use discouraged firmly and socially ostracised ideally; coke (the drug) has to be by far the worst of all the drugs in my eyes.

    Not because its addictive, nor because its deadly, but because anyone who abuses coke is almost inevitably a complete and utter douchebag.

    I'm not sure whether coke is just attractive to douchebags, or if coke makes you a douchebag, but the two are inextricably linked.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,625

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    An answer I’d be interested in, too.
    (Though I don’t even have a degree.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,954
    edited August 2023

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    I know Brexit is all so boring now blah blah blah, and the article does point out that there are other factors, but things like this really does make you wonder what the hell was the bloody point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit

    Liberty is like that. You may think it was a shit decision, but that’s what the voters decided.

    As Ben Franklin put it:

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result.

    The Brexit referendum gave the voters the chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading political parties
    The voters get a chance to contest the settled consensus among the leading
    political parties every five years.
    Not on a single issue. That’s exactly the point. A general election is about selecting a government. Until 2016, for all of my adult life, all of the top 3/4 political parties were in favour of remaining in the EU.

    Unless someone was willing to vote for ukip or Veritas, the Referendum Party or the BNP (and there are lots of good reasons for not wanting to vote for any of those parties) there was no way to support leaving the EU at a general election.
    But there are no end of stupid things you can't find in any serious party's GE manifesto.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Canadian Conservatives a 94% chance to win most seats according to one of the main projection sites.

    https://338canada.com/federal.htm

    48% to form a majority, 46% a minority so it's far from a foregone conclusion the Conservatives will be able to form a Government if the Liberals, NDP and BQ can get enough seats.
    Over two years till the election is due as well.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,600

    Being serious, while I think that all drugs should be legalised and treated as a taxed healthcare issue rather than a law and order issue, with their use discouraged firmly and socially ostracised ideally; coke (the drug) has to be by far the worst of all the drugs in my eyes.

    Not because its addictive, nor because its deadly, but because anyone who abuses coke is almost inevitably a complete and utter douchebag.

    I'm not sure whether coke is just attractive to douchebags, or if coke makes you a douchebag, but the two are inextricably linked.

    It’s the drug equivalent of Colin Hunt from the Fast Show. Tragic person with no personality tries to be a bit whacky but stripped of the coke/bow tie and crazy clothes is a dull salesman from Swindon. They dream of going full wolf of Wall Street and snorting it off a girl’s arse but their wife won’t let them as they’ve just changed the bedsheets that week and don’t want a mess before the next change, and they really gave up showing their arse to Colin after the second child.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
    Famously, Nolan keeps CGI to a minimum/zero, preferring in-camera effects. It's noticeable in Dunkirk: it's plainly modern-day Dunkirk and as you say there's nowhere near enough people on the beach. It's still a great film tho.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,625
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
    Famously, Nolan keeps CGI to a minimum/zero, preferring in-camera effects. It's noticeable in Dunkirk: it's plainly modern-day Dunkirk and as you say there's nowhere near enough people on the beach. It's still a great film tho.
    I was seriously underwhelmed, FWIW.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,625
    What a surprise.

    Tory fury as ministers axe key levelling up pledge on Northern civil service jobs
    Jobs in Birmingham also at risk as cross-party committee criticises ‘boosterish approach’ to inflating numbers of relocated civil services posts
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/19/tory-fury-as-ministers-axe-key-levelling-up-pledge-on-northern-civil-service-jobs
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,107
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    As a mature student? You *made* history as a MP. B****r A levels.

    It might be an idea to have an informal chat with a history don there. Any old colleagues there?

    But from what I have seen and from chats with my friends there, you need to apply to a specific college.

    Is it an undergraduate or graduate degree you have in mind? The main dichotomy would seem to be an undergraduate (mainly, with some grads) college vs a specialist graduate college, such as Wolfson. My impression is that the latter might be more suitable - certainly more adult - for a graduate student in your position.

    There are also various small halls or establishments for people in slightly out of the ordinary positions, so if you are a Franciscan friar, you are sorted!
    I think Greyfriars closed sadly.
    I thought Greyfriars was in Kent, not Oxford, or was that St. Jim’s?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,954
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    My dissertation is due in two weeks. I’m 4/5 of the way through it. None of it makes any sense anymore…

    Aaaargh!

    Eldest Granddaughter has finally finished hers, handed in and made the minor alterations felt necessary and been told everything is satisfactory.
    New job at around twice her current salary beckons!
    I'm doing this for "fun". In the middle of Lockdown 2 I decided that I would broaden my mind with all the spare time I had from not commuting and so started a 2 year part time MA at Birkbeck in Sept '21. Guest what two years after Sept '21 is... deadline 4 Sept.
    I did something similar in my late 50’s. I was working for the NHS and our Trust offered to pay a significant part of the costs of a further degree so I ‘gave it a go’. Anglia Ruskin were offering a part-time Masters around Management so I signed up.
    All went well until I was about where you are now and my father-in-law died which meant I had to take Mrs C to the ‘festivities’ 300 miles away in the week I’d booked off to write-up!
    I did graduate, though.

    Best of luck!
    I'm planning to retire in a couple of years and thinking of taking a history degree. I'll be living near Oxford so I've been wondering whether they'd consider me - is a maths PhD helpful, or would I have to start with A-levels??
    An answer I’d be interested in, too.
    (Though I don’t even have a degree.)
    No degree! Are you like Morse - went to Oxford then got sent down or jacked it in?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,295
    .
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
    Famously, Nolan keeps CGI to a minimum/zero, preferring in-camera effects. It's noticeable in Dunkirk: it's plainly modern-day Dunkirk and as you say there's nowhere near enough people on the beach. It's still a great film tho.
    I’m really hoping to get to see it at the IMAX.

    If a director, in 2023, can make the enormous effort required to shoot a three-hour movie on 70mm film, then it really deserves to be watched how he intended it to be.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,355
    edited August 2023

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
    As I've said here before the main fault was the sudden realisation mid-1945 that the USA was also at war with Japan. Neither Pearl Harbor not any Pacific confrontations were mentioned at all.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,250
    edited August 2023
    Sandpit said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    What did you think of the "nuclear" explosion? The copies I've seen online are underwhelming
    I thought it was ok. People getting caught out by the light and then the delay until the noise and the wind. In a cinema I think it worked.
    But the cast was just outstanding, Cillian Murphy, Matt Damon and Robert Downey Jnr in particular. It built to a tremendous crescendo. Whilst the threads of the various time lines were a bit confusing at the beginning they came together superbly. Complicated characters, dramatic background, moral dilemmas, it really had it all.
    The thing that annoyed me was the lack of scale - it gave the impression the Manhattan Project was a one horse town in the desert. Rather than a vast industrial enterprise with factories miles long, using all the silver in the US for magnet wiring etc etc.

    Bit like the Dunkirk film - which gave the impression that the beach was empty. Rather containing whole French and English armies.
    Famously, Nolan keeps CGI to a minimum/zero, preferring in-camera effects. It's noticeable in Dunkirk: it's plainly modern-day Dunkirk and as you say there's nowhere near enough people on the beach. It's still a great film tho.
    I’m really hoping to get to see it at the IMAX.

    If a director, in 2023, can make the enormous effort required to shoot a three-hour movie on 70mm film, then it really deserves to be watched how he intended it to be.
    My mum, my brother and I are seeing it at the IMAX next week :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,350

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    Not seen it yet, it would have been my pick personally but as a father to two young girls I was kind of obliged to go to the other half of 'Barbenheimer' first.

    The things you do for your family.

    Actually that film wasn't too bad, it had clearly been written actually with the fact parents would go to see it too in mind and had some quite funny bits.
    Oppenheimer not really my cup of tea. I know the story and haven't ever really liked any of Nolans previous works.

    I went to see Barbie though, and rather enjoyed it. Some great gags for the grown ups, particularly in spotting the other film references.

    Not sure about the ending though, but presumably setting up Barbie 2 Loose in Los Angeles.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,600
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    Not seen it yet, it would have been my pick personally but as a father to two young girls I was kind of obliged to go to the other half of 'Barbenheimer' first.

    The things you do for your family.

    Actually that film wasn't too bad, it had clearly been written actually with the fact parents would go to see it too in mind and had some quite funny bits.
    Oppenheimer not really my cup of tea. I know the story and haven't ever really liked any of Nolans previous works.

    I went to see Barbie though, and rather enjoyed it. Some great gags for the grown ups, particularly in spotting the other film references.

    Not sure about the ending though, but presumably setting up Barbie 2 Loose in Los Angeles.
    No spoilers re Oppenheimer please.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,954
    boulay said:

    Being serious, while I think that all drugs should be legalised and treated as a taxed healthcare issue rather than a law and order issue, with their use discouraged firmly and socially ostracised ideally; coke (the drug) has to be by far the worst of all the drugs in my eyes.

    Not because its addictive, nor because its deadly, but because anyone who abuses coke is almost inevitably a complete and utter douchebag.

    I'm not sure whether coke is just attractive to douchebags, or if coke makes you a douchebag, but the two are inextricably linked.

    It’s the drug equivalent of Colin Hunt from the Fast Show. Tragic person with no personality tries to be a bit whacky but stripped of the coke/bow tie and crazy clothes is a dull salesman from Swindon. They dream of going full wolf of Wall Street and snorting it off a girl’s arse but their wife won’t let them as they’ve just changed the bedsheets that week and don’t want a mess before the next change, and they really gave up showing their arse to Colin after the second child.
    What have the cool crowd moved onto now then?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Being serious, while I think that all drugs should be legalised and treated as a taxed healthcare issue rather than a law and order issue, with their use discouraged firmly and socially ostracised ideally; coke (the drug) has to be by far the worst of all the drugs in my eyes.

    Not because its addictive, nor because its deadly, but because anyone who abuses coke is almost inevitably a complete and utter douchebag.

    I'm not sure whether coke is just attractive to douchebags, or if coke makes you a douchebag, but the two are inextricably linked.

    It’s the drug equivalent of Colin Hunt from the Fast Show. Tragic person with no personality tries to be a bit whacky but stripped of the coke/bow tie and crazy clothes is a dull salesman from Swindon. They dream of going full wolf of Wall Street and snorting it off a girl’s arse but their wife won’t let them as they’ve just changed the bedsheets that week and don’t want a mess before the next change, and they really gave up showing their arse to Colin after the second child.
    What have the cool crowd moved onto now then?
    Commenting on PB
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,350
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from Oppenheimer. What a movie. The best I have seen for several years. Surely going to sweep the board at the Oscars.

    Not seen it yet, it would have been my pick personally but as a father to two young girls I was kind of obliged to go to the other half of 'Barbenheimer' first.

    The things you do for your family.

    Actually that film wasn't too bad, it had clearly been written actually with the fact parents would go to see it too in mind and had some quite funny bits.
    Oppenheimer not really my cup of tea. I know the story and haven't ever really liked any of Nolans previous works.

    I went to see Barbie though, and rather enjoyed it. Some great gags for the grown ups, particularly in spotting the other film references.

    Not sure about the ending though, but presumably setting up Barbie 2 Loose in Los Angeles.
    No spoilers re Oppenheimer please.
    Just wait for the sequel set in Russia....
This discussion has been closed.