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Talking balls. The UK’s new generational divide – politicalbetting.com

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  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    viewcode said:

    This header would be immensely interesting if i) I played tennis, ii) I watched tennis on television, iii) owned a television, and iv) cared.

    😁😁😁😀

    A slow news Sunday during the silly season...
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    My toms and courgettes this year are all leaves and no flowers or fruit :(
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    They are that, something we can no longer easily live without, but potentially very risky.
    I don't think smartphones are risky; I think AI is risky, climate change is very risky, the potential for democracy to fail or be nibbled away at is risky.

    Lots of stuff it risky but smartphones? Nah.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    They are that, something we can no longer easily live without, but potentially very risky.
    I don't think smartphones are risky; I think AI is risky, climate change is very risky, the potential for democracy to fail or be nibbled away at is risky.

    Lots of stuff it risky but smartphones? Nah.
    I wouldn't be without mine, but the amount of info on it about me, or the info about me it can provide access to, makes me nervous.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    I am at weekday digs. Switch telly on. The Day After Tomorrow on Film 4. I have Chicken Caesar salad from Sainsbury's and a small diet coke. Life could be worse.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    edited July 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    My toms and courgettes this year are all leaves and no flowers or fruit :(
    It's been a strange year. Our tomatoes have been poor though we've had a few. Our huge cooking apple tree has about half a dozen apples - it normally has hundreds.

    OTOH our lemon tree had 37 lemons on it (we counted!).
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Whether the tennis ball is yellow or white depends on the reflected light, I think. We get shades of both in these photos, but tending more to yellow:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wimbledon+tennis+ball&tbm=isch

    I should have said yellow or green, of course.

    The official colour picker for a tennis ball I see is 223, 255, 79, RGB, which makes it green, but on the border of yellow.

    https://www.crispedge.com/color/dfff4f/
    Would you say 254/255/0 was green too?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    nico679 said:

    EU migration would have likely fallen without Brexit .

    Ironically with more older Brits returning from the EU this will put more stress on the NHS . Freedom of movement allowed generally younger and healthier people into the UK .

    With the loss of FOM the UK will also now have less older people moving to EU countries .

    The new immigration from outside the EU will put more strain on services , that generally brings in more older people .

    The treasury figures clearly show that non EU migration is more costly to the country . Unfortunately facts died under the weight of the frenzy of EU bashing during the ref campaign .

    It really needed the Remain version of Farage to be blunt and politically incorrect with the public .

    You have a choice either mainly white Christian Europeans will need to fill the shortfall or mainly non-white non -Christians would.

    Can’t believe your fellow Remainers didn’t give you a Like for this
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    edited July 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    My toms and courgettes this year are all leaves and no flowers or fruit :(
    It's been a strange year. Our tomatoes have been poor though we've had a few. Our huge cooking apple tree has about half a dozen apples - it normally has hundreds.

    OTOH our lemon tree had 37 lemons on it (we counted!).
    My cooker tree is covered, indeed may need thinning to ensure they reach a decent size.

    Plums coated too.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Excellent choice, a Telegraph commentator and real heavyweight who deserves to be in Parliament and will be a rather different personality style to his predecessor (we will forgive him the dementia tax)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    Of course, the best way to get GCHQ or similar interested in you is to announce on a popular website that you do much of your life off grid and with cash...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    FF43 said:

    We have the definitive Daily Mail 2023 Woke List. These are people you despise ... or think thoughtful and well meaning, depending on your point of view. Obviously DM doesn't slant or take these people's quotes out of context:


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12352115/The-Mail-Sundays-Woke-List-2023-reveals-male-police-chief-wore-menopause-vest-BBC-presenter-said-Lionesses-white.html?ico=amp-comments-viewall&_gl=1*1hh1y4k*_ga*ZGdEaGdFc3NINHRtV19wdzFsQzlQbmNEUi1ZQUQzQ2ZJZm5KNmtRZTQxdUhmZGQ0Qmlpa0FqUXNzOWw2ME54Qg..#article-12352115

    At least I know who to hate. Thanks DM!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I fundamentally disagree. I think the British state is a benign organisation. Inept at times, not always fair, not very efficient, but basically benign.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    Yes - this is a very clear point. Most people if somebody had predicted March 2020 to them a few months beforehand would have thought the person was foolish or crazy. And most have learnt very little. A few have learnt something, but most still get by without any understanding of the direction that things are going in. They don't want to think about it. The poor bastards really love their little smartphones, though. A lot of them even carry the idiotic gadgets with them when they go to defecate. Perhaps they wouldn't find the pot if they didn't?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    My toms and courgettes this year are all leaves and no flowers or fruit :(
    It's been a strange year. Our tomatoes have been poor though we've had a few. Our huge cooking apple tree has about half a dozen apples - it normally has hundreds.

    OTOH our lemon tree had 37 lemons on it (we counted!).
    My cooker tree is covered, indeed may need thinning to ensure they reach a decent size.

    Plums coated too.
    A neighbour traded us some left over building rammel for some surplus from his allotment. Basically we swapped one problem for another. What to do with huge marrows bar show them? They're very impressive, but I'm sceptical about them being a culinary treat. Again, I'm glad I live in the 21st century and don't have to rely on them for sustenance.
    My plums, though, while not yet ripe, are huge and full of promise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    Though when they did nick people for meeting up it was via random coppers over zealously interpreting the rules rather than spooks tracking smartphones.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    My toms and courgettes this year are all leaves and no flowers or fruit :(
    It's been a strange year. Our tomatoes have been poor though we've had a few. Our huge cooking apple tree has about half a dozen apples - it normally has hundreds.

    OTOH our lemon tree had 37 lemons on it (we counted!).
    My cooker tree is covered, indeed may need thinning to ensure they reach a decent size.

    Plums coated too.
    It’s a massive year for grapevines in England and Wales. Yields, weather permitting, likely to be as high or higher than the freak year of 2018, but on a much higher planted acreage.

    Sadly my vines are only year 2 so no proper harvest yet this year.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    I don’t know what’s worst about this image: the entire meal, the dead tree Guardian, the tub of buttery WTF, or the wine stopper that clearly suggests the two of you can’t manage a single bottle of red between you

    On the other hand I quite like the cast iron chicken outside
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    The 'review of LTN' thing.
    In my field many 'professionals' and trade organisations have given up on any attempt at impartiality or objectivity, and have got in to the habit of deriding opposition to LTN's as 'conspiracy theorists' and 'misinformation', egging each other on and basically creating their own echo chamber in a sort of pseudo FBPE model.
    It has been interesting to watch the horror unfold in some circles that the government might actually be listening to the people.


    Though there is a definite nutcase wing to the anti LTN movement.

    https://longreads.politicshome.com/road-warriors
    I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses were rather critical of the German concentration camps too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    Though when they did nick people for meeting up it was via random coppers over zealously interpreting the rules rather than spooks tracking smartphones.
    Well yes. So far.
    I know I can be a bit of a Ron Swanson about this, but I don't trust the state and I don't fully trust any technology after about 2005.
    But nor am I competent enough to be a survivalist. It's a problem.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    Yes.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    I had an absolutely huge Sunday lunch at a pub in Chilham and am not posting the piece of toast I had for dinner as a result for everyone’s general merriment.
  • Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Anyway: I am going to WALK to the pub and the eat a VENISON burger.

    bye

    We had courgette fritters with zucchini alla scapece, zucchini salad, and - wait for it - courgette bread.

    I'm not sure but I think we may have a glut of courgettes.

    image
    I don’t know what’s worst about this image: the entire meal, the dead tree Guardian, the tub of buttery WTF, or the wine stopper that clearly suggests the two of you can’t manage a single bottle of red between you

    On the other hand I quite like the cast iron chicken outside
    Show us a better image of your meal instead, then, Leon!

    I thought the meal looked quite tasty but, as stated, a bit heavy on courgette.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    I believe so
  • Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    He wrote the Citizens of nowhere speech
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited July 2023
    With respect to tennis balls, have been unreliably informed, that in the State of Florida, under the reign of Ron DeSantis, the game MUST be played with only White balls in courts located on public schools, colleges, recreation grounds and other public facilities.

    AND why tennis balls of color in the first place. In addition to proclaiming how much slavery "surprised on the up side", state education guideline promulgated by RDS explain that white balls were discriminated against and ultimately cancelled, due to the Woke racist agitation of Arthur Ashe, a wannabe sub-average player hyped by libtard mass media despite his obvious lack of real talent.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I actually think the British state is mostly fairly benign in intent. But it is often incredibly sloppy in execution, and the modern state is so powerful that it can crush individuals with ease, intentionally or not. So it's best trying to avoid giving it more information than you have to.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    I LOLed.

    Many classic British cars had an unusual location for the dipstick.





    https://twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1685624782811762688

    That’s brilliant!

    And again he’s not wearing the seatbelt. Will he ever learn?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Or the Star Trek episode where Professor Daystrom puts the Enterprise under the control of a single computer. Or WarGames, where they put all the missiles under command of a networked computer. Or Colossus, where they put all the missiles under the control of a single computer. Or the Doctor Who episode "Robot" where they put all the missiles under control of a single computer. Or Star Trek: Picard, which puts an entire fleet under control of a networked computer. Or that...

    Did nobody in UK Govt study the classics as a child? Did they really go "Hey, let's import self-driving cars updated remotely by a single computer! What could possibly go wrong???"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    Yes.
    Is desperate, or deeply stupid uppermost in explaining their selection ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    He wrote the Citizens of nowhere speech
    Apposite for someone who’ll be the MP of nowhere.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    Fear photos of my repasts would further fuel your dystopian fixation!
  • Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    A tender Solomillo in Comillas, Cantrabria. Muy Bueno.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Peck said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Whether the tennis ball is yellow or white depends on the reflected light, I think. We get shades of both in these photos, but tending more to yellow:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wimbledon+tennis+ball&tbm=isch

    I should have said yellow or green, of course.

    The official colour picker for a tennis ball I see is 223, 255, 79, RGB, which makes it green, but on the border of yellow.

    https://www.crispedge.com/color/dfff4f/
    Would you say 254/255/0 was green too?
    Not sure. I think 254/255/0 might be on a different colour picker system that in theory delivers an equivalent colour.

    Colour science is actually quite interesting, despite the sniffiness from some commentators on this thread, because it isn't linear. A lot depends on the light conditions, reflected versus projected light (we're getting both in these photos and videos) and the materials absorbing or reflecting the light. Finally we perceive colour in a non linear way due to our optical anatomy, if that's the right way to put it. It is notoriously hard to print pure oranges or blues for instance because the RGB / CMYK values don't accord with our perceived vision. Pantone makes what I believe it's a sizeable business out of dealing with these inconsistencies of perception.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Fishing said:

    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I actually think the British state is mostly fairly benign in intent. But it is often incredibly sloppy in execution, and the modern state is so powerful that it can crush individuals with ease, intentionally or not. So it's best trying to avoid giving it more information than you have to.
    Try this experiment. Sit down. Say out loud:

    - “I trust the Metropolitan Police”
    - “I trust Greater Manchester Police”
    - “I trust the Post Office”

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    This is getting serious now.

    "Grant Shapps says he and family were de-banked because of political role
    Energy secretary says ‘anyone who decides to devote their life to public service is essentially at risk of being penalised by banks’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/30/grant-shapps-and-family-debanked-nigel-farage/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    Yes. Although he's been clean shaven for a while.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    I believe so
    Timothy inherits a 45% majority over Labour from Hancock, surely even he can't screw that up?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Suffolk_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    What I find interesting is how tech companies have preyed on human naivety and ignorance. No one would ever have given their consent to the type of tracking and mining of personal data that has been and continues to go on. The state just lags behind by a couple of decades, hampered by the fact that it cannot do things without our consent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?

    No one under 60 watches tennis.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Or the Star Trek episode where Professor Daystrom puts the Enterprise under the control of a single computer. Or WarGames, where they put all the missiles under command of a networked computer. Or Colossus, where they put all the missiles under the control of a single computer. Or the Doctor Who episode "Robot" where they put all the missiles under control of a single computer. Or Star Trek: Picard, which puts an entire fleet under control of a networked computer. Or that...

    Did nobody in UK Govt study the classics as a child? Did they really go "Hey, let's import self-driving cars updated remotely by a single computer! What could possibly go wrong???"
    More interestingly is the point that almost all cars work like this now.

    From the guy who brought you the enshittification cycle:
    https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/#kitt-is-a-demon

    TL;DR, you don't own a car any more because you don't own the software, and they can shut it down or deactivate features at any time. Problem not limited to Chinese car manufacturers, if you don't pay your Tesla lease on time it will lock you out and immobilise itself, even backing out of its spot autonomously for the repo man when he arrives.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959

    Andy_JS said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Perhaps tennis balls used to be yellow and are now green? I am so old I remember them being white. Not an interesting issue, esp outside of Wimbledon fortnight.

    Wouldn't green be a particularly stupid colour to choose for tennis balls on a grass surface?
    Not all tennis is played on Grass, including three of the Slams.
    I know, but I thought we were mostly talking about Wimbledon, because if the balls were green they'd be the same colour as the grass and we wouldn't be able to see the ball.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
    What is in the jar? It seems to say “Irish marrow chutney” but then that means you voluntarily added some courgettey style condiment to your already ultra-courgettey meal. Perhaps as a joke?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    FF43 said:

    Peck said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Whether the tennis ball is yellow or white depends on the reflected light, I think. We get shades of both in these photos, but tending more to yellow:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wimbledon+tennis+ball&tbm=isch

    I should have said yellow or green, of course.

    The official colour picker for a tennis ball I see is 223, 255, 79, RGB, which makes it green, but on the border of yellow.

    https://www.crispedge.com/color/dfff4f/
    Would you say 254/255/0 was green too?
    Not sure. I think 254/255/0 might be on a different colour picker system that in theory delivers an equivalent colour.

    Colour science is actually quite interesting, despite the sniffiness from some commentators on this thread, because it isn't linear. A lot depends on the light conditions, reflected versus projected light (we're getting both in these photos and videos) and the materials absorbing or reflecting the light. Finally we perceive colour in a non linear way due to our optical anatomy, if that's the right way to put it. It is notoriously hard to print pure oranges or blues for instance because the RGB / CMYK values don't accord with our perceived vision. Pantone makes what I believe it's a sizeable business out of dealing with these inconsistencies of perception.
    It’s all just a fairly narrow band of electromagnetic radiation, a fair proportion of which we barely register anyway.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Andy_JS said:

    This is getting serious now.

    "Grant Shapps says he and family were de-banked because of political role
    Energy secretary says ‘anyone who decides to devote their life to public service is essentially at risk of being penalised by banks’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/30/grant-shapps-and-family-debanked-nigel-farage/

    Though I hope Michael Green managed to keep his account open?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    I believe so
    Timothy inherits a 45% majority from Hancock, surely even he can't screw that up?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Suffolk_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    Normally, yes. But this is Nick Timothy we're talking about.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    edited July 2023

    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I fundamentally disagree. I think the British state is a benign organisation. Inept at times, not always fair, not very efficient, but basically benign.
    This depends. Perhaps how to judge a state is by how it deals with the most marginalised and unwanted. Boat people. Children no-one wants. Children in larger families on benefits. Roma. The homeless.

    The state does this, and it is not ineptitude, it is malignant cruelty to a pregnant troubled criminal and to a baby being born. These are people who have by our natural instincts an absolute first priority claim on the state's kindness and care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/serious-failings-contributed-to-babys-death-in-12-hour-lone-prison-birth

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    I believe so
    Timothy inherits a 45% majority over Labour from Hancock, surely even he can't screw that up?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Suffolk_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    Well, he’s managed it before …
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?

    No one under 60 watches tennis.
    FAKE NEWS! I'm 47.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited July 2023
    Am I misremembering or was there a time when tennis balls were white? I’m sure they were when I was a kid. The yellow ones were new and funky.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    They don't look quite as yellow as they used to. Maybe they changed it slightly recently.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    CatMan said:

    They are a sort of yellowy green mix

    I think that they are more a greeny yellow myself (when I can be bothered to think about it).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    What colour is Arsenal's away kit for 2023-24?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Timothy selected as Tory candidate to replace Matt Hancock in West Suffolk.

    Was he the useless beardy one that helped screw things up with May ?
    I believe so
    Timothy inherits a 45% majority over Labour from Hancock, surely even he can't screw that up?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Suffolk_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    If the Tories were reduced to 100 seats this would almost certainly be one of them. They almost lost it in 1997 but it's moved to the right since then relative to other seats.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    This is getting serious now.

    "Grant Shapps says he and family were de-banked because of political role
    Energy secretary says ‘anyone who decides to devote their life to public service is essentially at risk of being penalised by banks’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/30/grant-shapps-and-family-debanked-nigel-farage/

    Which of his aliases was debanked?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    Trump calls for conditioning Ukraine aid on congressional Biden probes
    https://twitter.com/postpolitics/status/1685442342000410624

    Wasn't he impeached for pretty well that ?

    He never learns.

    Sadly, neither do the GOP.

    The one that gets me is his pushing hard to get his impeachments 'expunged'. It's entirely pointless since everyone will know they happened whatever the House declares, his supporters don't care about them anyway, and it'll only look incredibly dumb with others, but he is so furious about them he keeps pressing for it. I don't even see how it benefits him!
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    FF43 said:

    Peck said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Whether the tennis ball is yellow or white depends on the reflected light, I think. We get shades of both in these photos, but tending more to yellow:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Wimbledon+tennis+ball&tbm=isch

    I should have said yellow or green, of course.

    The official colour picker for a tennis ball I see is 223, 255, 79, RGB, which makes it green, but on the border of yellow.

    https://www.crispedge.com/color/dfff4f/
    Would you say 254/255/0 was green too?
    Not sure. I think 254/255/0 might be on a different colour picker system that in theory delivers an equivalent colour.

    Colour science is actually quite interesting, despite the sniffiness from some commentators on this thread, because it isn't linear. A lot depends on the light conditions, reflected versus projected light (we're getting both in these photos and videos) and the materials absorbing or reflecting the light. Finally we perceive colour in a non linear way due to our optical anatomy, if that's the right way to put it. It is notoriously hard to print pure oranges or blues for instance because the RGB / CMYK values don't accord with our perceived vision. Pantone makes what I believe it's a sizeable business out of dealing with these inconsistencies of perception.
    Yes indeed it's non-linear. We can have A and B looking the same distance apart, and B and C, and the distance between A and C looking nothing like twice that far - even if they're all pure hues.

    But how did you figure that 223/255/79 makes green? I thought you were reasoning that since the hue before white was added (we can put it like that if we parametrise any given RGB colour as a hue + %white + %black and in this case the 255 indicates no black - i.e. the colour is a tint) contains a little bit less yellow than "pure" yellow which is 255/255/0, and since it's obviously "towards" yellow from green, then the colour must be green. Which isn't "true", in the sense that none of us would be able to visually distinguish 254/255/0 from 255/255/0 and we can assume that we all call the latter yellow.

    With any graphics prog you should be able to choose any of the 16M colours in the RGB space.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023

    Am I misremembering or was there a time when tennis balls were white? I’m sure they were when I was a kid. The yellow ones were new and funky.

    Until and including 1985 at Wimbledon. Changed to yellow the next year because American TV viewers were struggling to see the ball because their television standards were lower than in the UK and Europe. Something to do with number of lines on the screen.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Lucy Lawless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Fishing said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    The 'review of LTN' thing.
    In my field many 'professionals' and trade organisations have given up on any attempt at impartiality or objectivity, and have got in to the habit of deriding opposition to LTN's as 'conspiracy theorists' and 'misinformation', egging each other on and basically creating their own echo chamber in a sort of pseudo FBPE model.
    It has been interesting to watch the horror unfold in some circles that the government might actually be listening to the people.


    Though there is a definite nutcase wing to the anti LTN movement.

    https://longreads.politicshome.com/road-warriors
    I challenge you to find a grassroots political movement that DOESN'T have a nutcase wing.
    Granted, the more relevant metric is whether it has a wing the size of a chicken or an albtaross.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I fundamentally disagree. I think the British state is a benign organisation. Inept at times, not always fair, not very efficient, but basically benign.
    This depends. Perhaps how to judge a state is by how it deals with the most marginalised and unwanted. Boat people. Children no-one wants. Children in larger families on benefits. Roma. The homeless.

    The state does this, and it is not ineptitude, it is malignant cruelty to a pregnant troubled criminal and to a baby being born. These are people who have by our natural instincts an absolute first priority claim on the state's kindness and care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/serious-failings-contributed-to-babys-death-in-12-hour-lone-prison-birth

    To be fair, it was the private conglomerate running the prison that is responsible. The government just contracted them to do it.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
    Well, a marrow offers more opportunities for variety. They can be stuffed, for example. I also have a nice recipe for a marrow curry, although, tbf, it says you can use courgettes instead...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
    What is in the jar? It seems to say “Irish marrow chutney” but then that means you voluntarily added some courgettey style condiment to your already ultra-courgettey meal. Perhaps as a joke?
    Well spotted and not an intentional joke, just a coincidence. It's homemade Irish marrow chutney (sometimes we do let the courgettes turn into marrows). Mrs P. makes it.

    The 'Irish' comes from the added Irish whiskey but it's a common enough recipe e.g.

    https://carrickknoweallotment.weebly.com/irish-marrow-chutney.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976
    tlg86 said:

    What colour is Arsenal's away kit for 2023-24?

    An embarrassment.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    This is getting serious now.

    "Grant Shapps says he and family were de-banked because of political role
    Energy secretary says ‘anyone who decides to devote their life to public service is essentially at risk of being penalised by banks’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/30/grant-shapps-and-family-debanked-nigel-farage/

    Shapps must have forgiven Farage for disparaging him as a "globalist". Lots on that topic in the Coutts materials.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,415
    edited July 2023

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work. You can see that from the consultation response postcodes - make sure your council collects both home address and workplace.

    It boils down to an inverse NIMBYism, I suppose.
    If you cannot drive an SUV through one of these new LTNs, what about an ambulance or fire engine, or do the bollards and planters magically disappear on seeing a blue light? What about delivery vans for your online shopping?
    LTNs have had no negative impacts on response times. The whole point is to reduce traffic, which is fantastic for emergency services.

    The single best thing in London for response times is fully segregated two-way cycle lanes - you can chuck an Ambulance down one, skipping the traffic and the cyclists just lift the bikes onto the pavement.
    And if the emergency services (or delivery vans) need to reach a house inside the LTN? It's not like they were rat-running in the first place.
    They go in one way, do whatever they need to do, then go out the same way they came in.

    All LTNs do is retrofit culs de sac to road networks that were put in place before the idea was invented. There are a couple of car filters near me (yes, even in Romford). Main road traffic stays on the main road (which happens to be called... Main Road), but it's not possible to jump any queues that build up by cutting through residential roads.
    Retrofitting through roads by building by-passes to those roads is eminently reasonable.

    Retrofitting through roads but not bothering to build a new alternative route is not.

    The problem is the lazy attitude of trying to do the latter and telling commuters not to drive.
    But the sensible route to use, the Main Road, is still there. Historically, it's where the traffic flow has been. it's a bit wider than other roads, there's a decent sized verge between the road and the pavement, the houses are properly set back from the road.

    The problem is that, sometimes, a queue forms. And previously, a number of sharp eyed, sharp elbowed drivers turned off the main road, drove through a parallel estate, along narrower roads with no verges and houses much closer to the roads. Yes, they're labelled roads on the map, but they are much less suitable for through traffic. And people cutting in and out of the main road interrupts the flow for drivers who stay on the main road. Tragedy of the commons- it's in the interest of individuals to take cutthroughs, but it makes things worse for everyone else.

    All LTNs do is keep main road traffic on the main roads, rather than have it spill out onto roads that are a lot less suitable. And given that the whole area is built up, there's nowhere to put a bypass even if you wanted to.
    Its entirely possible to reduce traffic on Main Roads without making people drive through estates, which is to build better alternatives to the Main Road.

    I've said this before, but this was recently done by me. The Main Road through town was used as the A-road to Liverpool at 30mph. A bypass has been built which is 50mph to Liverpool and the road layout has been changed at both ends of the former main road to make it clear that traffic should be heading onto the new road rather than the old one. The new road is now the A-road.

    The old one has been turned to 20mph and a lane removed and turned into a dedicated cycle route with a barrier separating cyclists from cars, so the former Main Road is now narrow not wide.

    Everyone wins.

    Cyclists have a safer route to take, with a dedicated cycle route.
    Pedestrians have low speed, low traffic along the main road, and cars are double-separated from the pedestrian path with cyclists in-between. Pedestrians also no longer have cyclists riding on the pavement.
    Cars heading to the shops or schools on the former Main Road have lower traffic they're competing with as the commuters are no longer on that road.
    Cars heading to Liverpool or vice-versa have a faster, purpose-built, wider A-road to take them along that route which removes the need to go through town or regular traffic lights and zebra crossings.

    Win/win/win/win - nobody loses. But you can only do that by building more roads.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Am I misremembering or was there a time when tennis balls were white? I’m sure they were when I was a kid. The yellow ones were new and funky.

    Until 1985 at Wimbledon. Changed to yellow the next year because American TV viewers were struggling to see the ball because their television standards were lower than in the UK and Europe. Something to do with number of lines on the screen.
    Different, not lower in quality AIUI. 625 v 525 lines. Recording equipment for one came up funny on the other. It was why US news reports shown here had a vague yellow tinge.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/525_lines
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Lucy Lawless.
    They were both Cylons, but Tricia Helfer was the first seen.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    tlg86 said:

    What colour is Arsenal's away kit for 2023-24?

    An embarrassment.
    Indeed. They've taken a stand for equality by modelling it on the kit worn by the Colombian women's cycling team.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?

    No one under 60 watches tennis.
    FAKE NEWS! I'm 47.
    In years maybe but you're 60-something in spirit. I can prove that too: you watch tennis right?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Perhaps tennis balls used to be yellow and are now green? I am so old I remember them being white. Not an interesting issue, esp outside of Wimbledon fortnight.

    Wouldn't green be a particularly stupid colour to choose for tennis balls on a grass surface?
    Not all tennis is played on Grass, including three of the Slams.
    I know, but I thought we were mostly talking about Wimbledon, because if the balls were green they'd be the same colour as the grass and we wouldn't be able to see the ball.
    There are many types of green of course. In politics Greens are often bright red for one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Am I misremembering or was there a time when tennis balls were white? I’m sure they were when I was a kid. The yellow ones were new and funky.

    Until 1985 at Wimbledon. Changed to yellow the next year because American TV viewers were struggling to see the ball because their television standards were lower than in the UK and Europe. Something to do with number of lines on the screen.
    Different, not lower in quality AIUI. 625 v 525 lines. Recording equipment for one came up funny on the other. It was why US news reports shown here had a vague yellow tinge.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/525_lines
    European systems are PAL, and the US was NTSC, commonly translated as Never Twice the Same Color (sic)
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    Teasing about @Benpointer 's picture, or about your request for everyone else to post meal pictures for your gratification? 😁
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
    LTN opponents in Edinburgh tend to be people who like to drive through other people's neighbourhoods to get to work...
    I believe they're known as "commuters". Hang them, the perfidious [checks notes] people who drive to work. Bastards.
    Though a big difference between commuters on through roads and those rat-running through residential areas.
    Though that's the issue, is when existing through roads are converted without an alternative arranged.
    That is entirely the point, though not I suspect in the way you think.

    Residential streets became through roads about ten years ago for two reasons. One, Google Maps/Waze/Apple Maps started directing people down them to save seconds off their journey time. Two, the increase in courier vehicles (using those self-same apps).

    If you look at historic AADT* figures on residential streets - you can get them from TomTom or Inrix or a couple of other third-party suppliers - then they are vastly up on what they used to be. So, yes: "existing roads were converted". Residential streets were converted to through roads.

    That's the main driver behind LTN policy. If residential streets still had the traffic levels of 20 years ago I don't think you'd see such a clamour for LTNs.

    (I consult on this sort of route optimisation for a living, inter alia.)

    * Annual Average Daily Traffic
    Google Maps seems to me to deliberately avoid residential roads, even if it saves a minute or two not seconds off your commute nowadays.

    Courier vehicles are vehicles that are delivering to those residential addresses though!

    If you don't want Amazon vehicles driving down your road, then don't order off Amazon and convince your neighbours not to either. But if Bob at Number 79 is ordering off Amazon every day, and Wendy at number 68 is ordering off Amazon and Etsy regularly, then you're going to see couriers using your road regularly and not just Bob and Wendy's vehicles using the road.
    This is a good point - a big reason for the increase in mileage is delivery vans. Another reason for bringing our High Streets back to life.
    While you're at it, why not destroy that new fangled machinery in cotton mills so that the people working there don't lose their jobs?

    Amazon, Etsy etc are successful because they are a superior technology over High Streets. I can think of anything I want, absolutely anything, go on my phone or computer, and have it in my possession tomorrow.

    Rather than having to drive to the High Street, find parking, go to a shop and hope they have that in stock which they may not.

    Or let me guess, you wouldn't want me driving to the High Street anyway?
    Superior technology and favourable tax treatment. These are the weapons of the online shopping revolution. Especially the latter.
    Speaking from a customer view point the reason I shop online for all but food and clothes is simple. I need a new washing machine....on the high street I would have a choice of maybe 20 models.....online I can choose from maybe 400 models. I no longer have to put up with the shit dixons and curries want to palm off on me
    How do you pay for that with cash?
    I don't. I do not have an aversion to paying by card in the least or online shopping. I do have an aversion to everything having to be an electronic transfer.

    Things I am happy to pay by card for....online purchases from reputable companies

    Things I prefer to pay cash for all my local expenditure whether food shopping, buying a round in a bar, buying a vehicle, paying the guy that cuts my grass, bus and train tickets.

    I don't have any loyalty cards, I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out. The only social media I participate in is PB. I regularly try and dox myself to ensure I haven't left a significant digital footprint and where I can I use tor.

    It is not paranoia I just dont believe in letting anymore info escape than I absolutely have to because I know how much info is out there. Remember the case of tesco's outting someone as pregnant before even she knew due to the collected data.

    Simply put...once your data is out there its too late to take it back
    "I don't carry a mobile it stays on my desk when I go out." I think you may be missing the point there, but each to their own.

    You're a very eccentric person - don't ever change, eccentricity is good.
    It does rather miss the point of a phone being mobile!

    Why not just turn it off when out, so it is in your pocket if needed, yet not traceable?
    Because even if it is off the gps can still be activated likewise the microphone
    What? You're saying that a hacker can access the GPS and microphone on my iPhone (and presumably send themselves the data from those) at any time? Even when the phone's switched off?

    I'd like to see the evidence for that claim.
    I didnt claim hackers could in particular but certainly state agencies like for example the NSA or GCHQ certainly can. State agencies leaving a backdoor into devices however does mean a hacker could use the same.....a backdoor is usable by anyone.

    States have been increasingly trying to increase their surveillance powers of everyone. This is why e2e encryption is under attack, Kosa law in the states, online safety bill in the uk. Spain pushing for it in the eu who have at least backtracked.

    When states are pushing for more and more data to be available from us all for them to ferret through I think I have a point
    The bit I never get with this 'not-paranoia' is who exactly is going to be ferreting through the smartphone data of 70m people in this country?
    Sorry are you serious do you know how echelon works?
    Sorry, let me put it another way: who's going to give a shit about me, what I do, where I go, who I meet, who I call, what I buy?

    Now, if I was a budding terrorist, well, maybe. Even if I were an ordinary criminal then yes maybe the state would be interested.

    But I'm not. No one is going to be the slightest bit interested in me.

    So I will keep carrying my smartphone round with me. I'm even going to keep it on. And I may use it from time to time to, make calls, look things up, pay for shopping, find my way around, listen to books, pay for car-parking... Amazing things smartphones.
    Well I used to think like that. And then in 2020 the state essentially criminaliaed meeting other people. So I'm now much more cautious about anything which could allow me to be tracked.
    The state is not some benign organisation. The British state may be less sinister than the Chinese state but it is only a matter of degree.
    I fundamentally disagree. I think the British state is a benign organisation. Inept at times, not always fair, not very efficient, but basically benign.
    This depends. Perhaps how to judge a state is by how it deals with the most marginalised and unwanted. Boat people. Children no-one wants. Children in larger families on benefits. Roma. The homeless.

    The state does this, and it is not ineptitude, it is malignant cruelty to a pregnant troubled criminal and to a baby being born. These are people who have by our natural instincts an absolute first priority claim on the state's kindness and care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/serious-failings-contributed-to-babys-death-in-12-hour-lone-prison-birth

    To be fair, it was the private conglomerate running the prison that is responsible. The government just contracted them to do it.
    Not much of a defence though. They are responsible for passing on the responsibility, and being utterly indifferent to any such risks.

    The indifference of the general public to most matters does not excuse them either of course.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    That 5 percent reminds me of my rule-of-thumb on political polls: In the US, about 5 percent will say the most amazing things, if given a chance. I love most of my fellow citizens, but I recognize a few of them are, shall we say, not entirely in touch with reality.

    Are their numbers increasing? I fear so.
  • Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    The 'review of LTN' thing.
    In my field many 'professionals' and trade organisations have given up on any attempt at impartiality or objectivity, and have got in to the habit of deriding opposition to LTN's as 'conspiracy theorists' and 'misinformation', egging each other on and basically creating their own echo chamber in a sort of pseudo FBPE model.
    It has been interesting to watch the horror unfold in some circles that the government might actually be listening to the people.


    Though there is a definite nutcase wing to the anti LTN movement.

    https://longreads.politicshome.com/road-warriors
    Just as there is a definite nutcase wing to the pro LTN movement.

    There's nutcases attracted to most movements.

    The key is to learn how to filter out the nutcases and pay attention to those with legitimate arguments.

    Just as you can lower traffic by filtering out commuters who don't need to be on that road by giving them a newer, alternative route, leaving the old road available for those who actually need it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
    What is in the jar? It seems to say “Irish marrow chutney” but then that means you voluntarily added some courgettey style condiment to your already ultra-courgettey meal. Perhaps as a joke?
    Well spotted and not an intentional joke, just a coincidence. It's homemade Irish marrow chutney (sometimes we do let the courgettes turn into marrows). Mrs P. makes it.

    The 'Irish' comes from the added Irish whiskey but it's a common enough recipe e.g.

    https://carrickknoweallotment.weebly.com/irish-marrow-chutney.html
    Replace "1.5kg Marrow 1.5kg Apples" with "3kg Apples" and that sounds quite an appealing recipe.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    That 5 percent reminds me of my rule-of-thumb on political polls: In the US, about 5 percent will say the most amazing things, if given a chance. I love most of my fellow citizens, but I recognize a few of them are, shall we say, not entirely in touch with reality.

    Are their numbers increasing? I fear so.

    It’s is a phenomenon not exclusive to your shores I fear
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?

    No one under 60 watches tennis.
    FAKE NEWS! I'm 47.
    In years maybe but you're 60-something in spirit. I can prove that too: you watch tennis right?
    Nope, you're 60-something in spirit cos you love Cricket!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Lucy Lawless.
    They were both Cylons, but Tricia Helfer was the first seen.
    And the most seen, save maybe for Grace Park.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    A coming influx of Chinese electric cars represents a security risk as they could be remotely controlled to “paralyse” Britain, according to the head of the industry’s professional body.

    “Britons face “major security issues” from Chinese cars, warned Professor Jim Saker, president of the Institute of the Motor Industry.

    “In a report due to be shared with car makers and regulators, Prof Saker said there was “no way” of stopping Chinese cars coming under remote control.

    “He said: “The car manufacturer may be in Shanghai and could stop 100,000 to 300,000 cars across Europe thus paralysing a country.”

    “While regulators can test samples of cars for spyware or other security vulnerabilities, testing thousands of vehicles is not feasible, he said.

    “A similar frailty of testing samples allowed Volkswagen to cheat emissions tests ahead of the Dieselgate scandal.

    “Up to 30 new electric vehicle brands are eyeing up the UK car market, most of them Chinese.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/30/chinese-electric-car-invasion-paralyse-britain-jim-saker/

    This is all like Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons wrote a line of code into the Colonial defence software allowing them to shut it down and destroy humanity. But there was Tricia Helfer which made it a bit better.
    Lucy Lawless.
    They were both Cylons, but Tricia Helfer was the first seen.
    Lucy Lawless looked OK, though :blush:
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    This is getting serious now.

    "Grant Shapps says he and family were de-banked because of political role
    Energy secretary says ‘anyone who decides to devote their life to public service is essentially at risk of being penalised by banks’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/30/grant-shapps-and-family-debanked-nigel-farage/

    In a sense you would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh. This bloke is an MP and in the cabinet - one of a tiny group of people with the unique power to form policy and pass our laws.

    The laws he doesn't care for, when it comes to banks trying to put them into practice, are regulations enacted in 2017, 7 years into continuous Tory administration.

    He, not us, is in a unique position to do something about it.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Peck said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    The 'review of LTN' thing.
    In my field many 'professionals' and trade organisations have given up on any attempt at impartiality or objectivity, and have got in to the habit of deriding opposition to LTN's as 'conspiracy theorists' and 'misinformation', egging each other on and basically creating their own echo chamber in a sort of pseudo FBPE model.
    It has been interesting to watch the horror unfold in some circles that the government might actually be listening to the people.


    Though there is a definite nutcase wing to the anti LTN movement.

    https://longreads.politicshome.com/road-warriors
    I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses were rather critical of the German concentration camps too.
    It is the zealotry of those who advocate for LTN's that I find interesting. It is enjoyable and satisfying to watch democracy intervene in their plans for world domination. As much as LTN's can do a lot of good, democracy is ultimately more important.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Perhaps tennis balls used to be yellow and are now green? I am so old I remember them being white. Not an interesting issue, esp outside of Wimbledon fortnight.

    Wouldn't green be a particularly stupid colour to choose for tennis balls on a grass surface?
    Not all tennis is played on Grass, including three of the Slams.
    I know, but I thought we were mostly talking about Wimbledon, because if the balls were green they'd be the same colour as the grass and we wouldn't be able to see the ball.
    There are many types of green of course. In politics Greens are often bright red for one.
    15% of males are red/green colour blind, so there is a fair chance that BJO is one.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    DougSeal said:

    That 5 percent reminds me of my rule-of-thumb on political polls: In the US, about 5 percent will say the most amazing things, if given a chance. I love most of my fellow citizens, but I recognize a few of them are, shall we say, not entirely in touch with reality.

    Are their numbers increasing? I fear so.

    It’s is a phenomenon not exclusive to your shores I fear
    The starkest one I know is the small minority of African-Americans who think slavery was a good thing,
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I genuinely thought tennis balls varied in colour, with different ones used for different surfaces and conditions, like golf and football. Thinking about it they don’t play tennis in rain or snow so not sure where that idea came from.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think every PB-er should post photos of their lunches and dinners

    I love decoding them. Seeing what they say about people I converse with daily, but never meet in real life

    C’mon. Photos of meals! It’s the silly season

    You all know I am a hedonistic but solitary old wino that travels a lot. I need reciprocation

    What, and be judged by you?
    I am sure @Benpointer realises I am just teasing

    Tho it is quite heavy on the courgette side of things
    It's eat them or compost them, or they'll turn to marrow tomorrow.
    What is in the jar? It seems to say “Irish marrow chutney” but then that means you voluntarily added some courgettey style condiment to your already ultra-courgettey meal. Perhaps as a joke?
    Well spotted and not an intentional joke, just a coincidence. It's homemade Irish marrow chutney (sometimes we do let the courgettes turn into marrows). Mrs P. makes it.

    The 'Irish' comes from the added Irish whiskey but it's a common enough recipe e.g.

    https://carrickknoweallotment.weebly.com/irish-marrow-chutney.html
    Replace "1.5kg Marrow 1.5kg Apples" with "3kg Apples" and that sounds quite an appealing recipe.
    And a lifetimes supply!
  • I'm surprised anyone would think tennis balls are green. What's the reason for this generational switch?

    No one under 60 watches tennis.
    FAKE NEWS! I'm 47.
    In years maybe but you're 60-something in spirit. I can prove that too: you watch tennis right?
    Nope, you're 60-something in spirit cos you love Cricket!
    Tennis may be an old person (or old at heart) sport, but Cricket is not.

    Cricket is more of an upbringing thing. There are communities/classes very interested in Cricket and others that are not, regardless of age.

    Cricket is shown on the sport channels and much more than tennis. There's a dedicated Cricket sports channel, no dedicated tennis one AFAIK.

    Tennis is shown on the old farts channel instead of the sport channels.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    MattW said:

    DougSeal said:

    That 5 percent reminds me of my rule-of-thumb on political polls: In the US, about 5 percent will say the most amazing things, if given a chance. I love most of my fellow citizens, but I recognize a few of them are, shall we say, not entirely in touch with reality.

    Are their numbers increasing? I fear so.

    It’s is a phenomenon not exclusive to your shores I fear
    The starkest one I know is the small minority of African-Americans who think slavery was a good thing,
    Products of the Florida school system?
This discussion has been closed.