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Mid Beds: the by-election where there’s no current vacancy – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    Trouble is that someone has to make the choices- if not members, then who?

    The best solution would be for political parties to have much much wider memberships, so that the party members weren't so hopelessly unrepresentative.

    But I've not no intention of signing up with any current political party. They're all ghastly. So Chicken, meet Egg.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    Trouble is that someone has to make the choices- if not members, then who?

    The best solution would be for political parties to have much much wider memberships, so that the party members weren't so hopelessly unrepresentative.

    But I've not no intention of signing up with any current political party. They're all ghastly. So Chicken, meet Egg.
    It feels for a moment like a recommendation for the broader based registered voter system used in the USA, and that is one part of their system that is attractive. But, it still produced Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    You do get some crazy choices. However there has to be some meaningful benefit to being a member of a party. The party belongs to the members after all. No members, no party. Many of them put real time and effort into it. They campaign, donate, run events, fight local issues, keep the whole show on the road. The party means a lot to them. They are invested in it in a way that no-one else is.

    My compromise would be that party members get to pick candidates except where it's a PM being chosen. So we wouldn't get the Johnson, Truss, Sunak scenario again. MPs should choose in those circs imo.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    The oil and gas company BP has been fined £650,000 after a worker fell to his death through open grating on one of its offshore platforms.

    Sean Anderson, 43, sustained fatal injuries when he fell into the sea from the lower deck of BP’s Unity installation in September 2014.

    The BP Exploration Operating Company was found guilty of a health and safety breach after an eight-day trial at Aberdeen sheriff court that ended on 14 July.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/19/bp-fined-death-of-worker-fell-into-sea-off-oil-platform

    It has taken nearly a decade to get to this verdict, at which point the employer was fined the equivalent of approximately fifteen minutes' worth of their annual profits for 2022. BP were found liable for the serious health and safety breaches that led to a man's death; the "punishment" that has been handed down to them as a consequence effectively amounts to a declaration that his life was as good as worthless.

    It just goes to show that you can get away with anything if you have enough money. The court might as well not have bothered.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    Trouble is that someone has to make the choices- if not members, then who?

    The best solution would be for political parties to have much much wider memberships, so that the party members weren't so hopelessly unrepresentative.

    But I've not no intention of signing up with any current political party. They're all ghastly. So Chicken, meet Egg.
    This was - and still is - about 99.46% of the rationale for party PRIMARY elections in USA, as opposed to nominations by caucuses and/or conventions.

    This was perhaps the greatest single contribution of Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette and his "Wisconsin Plan" political reforms at turn of 19th>2th century.

    Hardly a panacea, but certainly broadens selections beyond small coterie of often self-appointed (or what amounts to same thing) party "activists".

    Of course since it's US innovation/abomination, OBVIOUSLY unsuited to UK.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    pigeon said:

    The oil and gas company BP has been fined £650,000 after a worker fell to his death through open grating on one of its offshore platforms.

    Sean Anderson, 43, sustained fatal injuries when he fell into the sea from the lower deck of BP’s Unity installation in September 2014.

    The BP Exploration Operating Company was found guilty of a health and safety breach after an eight-day trial at Aberdeen sheriff court that ended on 14 July.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/19/bp-fined-death-of-worker-fell-into-sea-off-oil-platform

    It has taken nearly a decade to get to this verdict, at which point the employer was fined the equivalent of approximately fifteen minutes' worth of their annual profits for 2022. BP were found liable for the serious health and safety breaches that led to a man's death; the "punishment" that has been handed down to them as a consequence effectively amounts to a declaration that his life was as good as worthless.

    It just goes to show that you can get away with anything if you have enough money. The court might as well not have bothered.

    About 3 weeks wages for the CEO to look at it another way, and much less than the cost of investigating and prosecuting over 8 days.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    Trouble is that someone has to make the choices- if not members, then who?

    The best solution would be for political parties to have much much wider memberships, so that the party members weren't so hopelessly unrepresentative.

    But I've not no intention of signing up with any current political party. They're all ghastly. So Chicken, meet Egg.
    This was - and still is - about 99.46% of the rationale for party PRIMARY elections in USA, as opposed to nominations by caucuses and/or conventions.

    This was perhaps the greatest single contribution of Robert "Fighting Bob" LaFollette and his "Wisconsin Plan" political reforms at turn of 19th>2th century.

    Hardly a panacea, but certainly broadens selections beyond small coterie of often self-appointed (or what amounts to same thing) party "activists".

    Of course since it's US innovation/abomination, OBVIOUSLY unsuited to UK.
    Cameron experimented with them in the run-up to 2010. I think they were slate-wipers after MPs left under a bit of a cloud. One of them was Caroline Dineage replacing Sir Peter Duckhouse, the other was that doctor who ended up joining Change UK.

    Any other examples?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    New ball doing the job!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Sandpit said:

    New ball doing the job!

    Good job Australia bat deep....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    Jordan Henderson also off to Saudi.....Last over 30 year old out of the Prem remember to turn the lights off.

    Just needs Gary Neville and Gary Lineker to be announced as joining the league official broadcast team to complete the transformation of wouldn't touch mickey mouse footy in repressive regimes with a bargepole to how much did you say.....I'm packing right now.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    Corbyn's election, it should be remembered, included a fairly successful effort at broadening the voter base, namely the three quidders. I don't think the exit polling concluded that it was decisive, but sometimes I do feel like was the only centrist three quidder in the building.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    I feel like it's one of those changes that is not really working out but it is hard to go back from.

    And I don't say that because Members make the 'wrong' choice (though obviously that will happen as well). Even though people moan about PMs changing due to the votes of like 100k party members, so the public hardly think it is very democratic anyway, it still looks more open. So the electorate don't care enough one way or another.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    felix said:

    Interesting GESOP poll today in Spain. It has the PP lead at just 3.5%... but up in 2 days from their previous poll lead of 2.3%

    It looks as though PP and VOX combined will just get past 175 to form a majority though that's not certain.

    I presume PP will form a minority - I can't imagine Feijoo wants any of the VOX MPs anywhere near Government and I presume he has a fall back in case it all goes wrong with VOX in the form of a grand coalition with PSOE.

    The trouble will be if the VOX horse is seen to be pulling the PP cart.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558

    Jordan Henderson also off to Saudi.....Last over 30 year old out of the Prem remember to turn the lights off.

    Just needs Gary Neville and Gary Lineker to be announced as joining the league official broadcast team to complete the transformation of wouldn't touch mickey mouse footy in repressive regimes with a bargepole to how much did you say.....I'm packing right now.

    I do wonder if this influx of footballers to the Saudi league, the exposure to them and the eyes of the world looking in could actually end up being a massive driving force in liberalising Saudi society? It’s surely only a matter of time before young Saudi’s want to load up on Carling in their Fred Perry’s and then the Saudi BBC equivalent start demanding that women are also involved.

    Disclaimer, I was paid by Aramco and Saudi Airlines to post the above. Book your Riyadh stag do now to avoid disappointment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    boulay said:

    Jordan Henderson also off to Saudi.....Last over 30 year old out of the Prem remember to turn the lights off.

    Just needs Gary Neville and Gary Lineker to be announced as joining the league official broadcast team to complete the transformation of wouldn't touch mickey mouse footy in repressive regimes with a bargepole to how much did you say.....I'm packing right now.

    I do wonder if this influx of footballers to the Saudi league, the exposure to them and the eyes of the world looking in could actually end up being a massive driving force in liberalising Saudi society? It’s surely only a matter of time before young Saudi’s want to load up on Carling in their Fred Perry’s and then the Saudi BBC equivalent start demanding that women are also involved.

    Disclaimer, I was paid by Aramco and Saudi Airlines to post the above. Book your Riyadh stag do now to avoid disappointment.
    Jamie Vardy turned down a Saudi move.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    I feel like it's one of those changes that is not really working out but it is hard to go back from.

    And I don't say that because Members make the 'wrong' choice (though obviously that will happen as well). Even though people moan about PMs changing due to the votes of like 100k party members, so the public hardly think it is very democratic anyway, it still looks more open. So the electorate don't care enough one way or another.
    Truss wasn't just "wrong," she was wrong. Successor to Sunak needs to dismantle the system under which he or she will just have got the gig.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Pro_Rata said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    Corbyn's election, it should be remembered, included a fairly successful effort at broadening the voter base, namely the three quidders. I don't think the exit polling concluded that it was decisive, but sometimes I do feel like was the only centrist three quidder in the building.
    I was a 3 quidder who voted for Liz.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Jordan Henderson also off to Saudi.....Last over 30 year old out of the Prem remember to turn the lights off.

    Just needs Gary Neville and Gary Lineker to be announced as joining the league official broadcast team to complete the transformation of wouldn't touch mickey mouse footy in repressive regimes with a bargepole to how much did you say.....I'm packing right now.

    I do wonder if this influx of footballers to the Saudi league, the exposure to them and the eyes of the world looking in could actually end up being a massive driving force in liberalising Saudi society? It’s surely only a matter of time before young Saudi’s want to load up on Carling in their Fred Perry’s and then the Saudi BBC equivalent start demanding that women are also involved.

    Disclaimer, I was paid by Aramco and Saudi Airlines to post the above. Book your Riyadh stag do now to avoid disappointment.
    Jamie Vardy turned down a Saudi move.
    Shame, would have loved to see Rebecca Vardy hitting the malls there.
  • nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    There is a suggestion in the BBC article at least that the family of the victim are going to press for an appeal on sentence on just that basis. I don't know the judge's reasoning but it feels like one where the Justice Secretary might look to test at the Court of Appeal if the sentencing rule changes were given sufficient weight.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Miklosvar said:

    DougSeal said:

    Have we done Seaham Conservative Club being fined for 'death match' wrestling yet?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66222964

    Bloody hell, quite literally.

    Loving that one of the charges was doing this stuff *without a licence."
    I suspect I may the closest PB has to a death match wrestling correspondent (potentially @Taz ?), so would just add here that is is, broadly speaking, a scene of the libertarian left so kind of funny that it’s being held in a Con Club.

    On the blood etc it tends to look much worse than it actually is (which indeed is kind of the point). Certainly no more brutal or physically punishing than ballet, another great artistic storytelling medium.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    I tend to go to the cinema about three times a year. Have this one pencilled in for next week, reviews all very good.

    Note that its 180 mins long though, so allow a good half day for it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Truss finished just a few dozen MPs behind Sunak with a large third place for Mordaunt. It's plausible she could have won the MP selectorate.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    llll
    Ghedebrav said:

    Miklosvar said:

    DougSeal said:

    Have we done Seaham Conservative Club being fined for 'death match' wrestling yet?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66222964

    Bloody hell, quite literally.

    Loving that one of the charges was doing this stuff *without a licence."
    I suspect I may the closest PB has to a death match wrestling correspondent (potentially @Taz ?), so would just add here that is is, broadly speaking, a scene of the libertarian left so kind of funny that it’s being held in a Con Club.

    On the blood etc it tends to look much worse than it actually is (which indeed is kind of the point). Certainly no more brutal or physically punishing than ballet, another great artistic storytelling medium.
    Red Wall?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
    I go to the cinema about 25 times a year, and yet somehow nothing I've seen has had a Barbie trailer in front of it that I can recall other than the 2001 one, so still have no idea what it is actually about.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    There is a suggestion in the BBC article at least that the family of the victim are going to press for an appeal on sentence on just that basis. I don't know the judge's reasoning but it feels like one where the Justice Secretary might look to test at the Court of Appeal if the sentencing rule changes were given sufficient weight.
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/

    So, he is category A and he has got the "starting point" sentence for that. I would have said there were aggravating factors (serious injury to other victims; victims are vulnerable road users *while broken down on hard shoulder*). But NB the realistic ceiling is 18 years, not life.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
    It looks really good.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,157
    kle4 said:

    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.

    I feel like it's one of those changes that is not really working out but it is hard to go back from.

    And I don't say that because Members make the 'wrong' choice (though obviously that will happen as well). Even though people moan about PMs changing due to the votes of like 100k party members, so the public hardly think it is very democratic anyway, it still looks more open. So the electorate don't care enough one way or another.
    You could maybe go more "open" by coming up with a system similar to the US primary one, where everybody gets a free vote for the leader of the party of their choice. Still somewhat weighted to activists, but their votes are at least diluted a bit by a larger mass of the kind of person who's interested enough to vote in local elections. Yeah, I know I'm glossing over a pile of implementation issues, but it might be an easier move than just shutting the party members back out of the voting again?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
    It looks really good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    I tend to go to the cinema about three times a year. Have this one pencilled in for next week, reviews all very good.

    Note that its 180 mins long though, so allow a good half day for it.
    CBA to go to the cinema for that length of film, and with (flex here) a 75" tv with proper sound system why bother? I might have gone to the imax for Avatar part 2 if I thought it was going to be a good film, but I have now seen enough on Disney+ to confirm that as expected it looks like a 3 hour TUI holiday commercial.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,596
    edited July 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    But electing the leader, and candidates, is one of the few meaningful powers that party, and I include all parties, members have.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Nice poem! Good luck with whatever it is - do let us know when it's over.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    But electing the leader is one of the few meaningful powers that party, and I include all parties, members have.
    Not a right dating back to domesday boke though. willie hague invented it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
    It looks really good.
    I noticed the homage to a Kubrick film in some footage shown on line - but won't let on in case it spoils it for anyone.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    Miklosvar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    But electing the leader is one of the few meaningful powers that party, and I include all parties, members have.
    Not a right dating back to domesday boke though. willie hague invented it.
    He might as well be William the Bastard the way some folk go on about the right.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Yevgeny Prigozhin tells his Wagner mercenaries in Belarus that they will not fight in Ukraine and asks them to prepare for a “new journey to Africa”
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/7/19/russia-ukraine-live-news-moscow-strikes-odesa-for-second-night
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Oppenheimer reviews are out

    Stuckmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3jaIhSj23E
    Jahns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhfy8UR_p8

    TLDR: possibly the best reviewed film of the summer (MI:7, whilst universally lauded, had a few caveats). So if you were looking forward to it, it looks like you picked the right horse

    MI:7 was fun but not as good as MI:5 or MI:6. Oppenheimer look boring (if well acted, well shot, boring), but hopefully the reviews indicate that is not so. The trailers do not really sell that type of film very well.
    I am looking forward to the Barbie movie, despite the obvious merchandising.
    It looks really good.
    So good...

    https://youtu.be/pBk4NYhWNMM
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    By the look of the staff WhatsApp group looks like a lot of strikers tomorrow.

    Not me though, for reasons good and bad.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,478

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    I quite like the idea of councillors being involved. How about a future leader selectorate consisting of all those who are currently democratically elected under the banner of the party involved - i.e. MPs, councillors, mayors, PPCs etc.? Could result in a balanced, sensible choice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    edited July 2023

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    This is a position that is very popular on PB, but the issue with it is that it's not an accurate portrayal of how the process has worked in actual leadership elections. In the most recent example, Sunak (and his campaign manager Gavin Williamson) used the fact that he was the runaway favourite with the PCP (careerists flocked to him early) to donate supporters to other candidates and knock out more serious opponents. He manoeuvred himself into a run off with Truss - and of course as we now know he was too shit to even beat her. It is the shenanigans of the PCP that are at fault here, not the voting instincts of the membership.

    Going back further, after William Hague, we see a lot of blame on the members for Iain Duncan Smith, but once again, it was MPs who rejected Portillo, a mildly euroskeptic candidate, who would have been OK for everyone, and forced the members to choose between IDS and Clarke.

    It is a wider trend in politics of people thinking they're very clever in forcing electorates to accept something unpalatable, by offering an alternative that is *unthinkable*. Unsurprisingly, it rebounds and the electorate often chooses the supposedly unthinkable. Brexit is an example.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    MRI is quite claustrophobic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Mind you it’s kinda time we had another PB death. When was the last one? Mark Senior? It’s been a while and none of us is getting any younger. We can’t dodge the actuarial reality forever


    So @kinabalu I salute you for stepping up to the role. Seriously. Thanks for all the bantz. I will toast your memory in our favourite Belsize Park pub
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    edited July 2023
    Thank heaven for modern dentistry. Root canal treatment may not be nice but it's a darn sight better than what was available to earlier generations
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    MRI is quite claustrophobic.
    That's why I've agreed a sedative. I am claustro.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,161
    geoffw said:

    Thank heaven for modern dentistry. Root canal treatment may not be nice but it's a darn sight better than what was available to earlier generations

    I had it two years ago, and it caused no end of problems. Continual pain from the tooth, which in the end I accepted should be removed - having already paid over £1000 for a filling and two root canals in it, plus various investigations. After removal of the tooth I still have the pain, and it remains a mystery.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Old Trafford feels like a draw to me. Sadly

    Saturday and Sunday look like THIS




    Complete washout

    So we’d have to bowl out Oz within the first 3 overs tomorrow then somehow hit 450 in a day (against their attack?) and hope to basically bowl them out for 150 giving us one last session to hit 100

    It’s not going to happen. It’s a draw or a wildly gallant English defeat. Damn shame. This is why we shouldn’t have Tests in the north
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    stodge said:

    felix said:

    Interesting GESOP poll today in Spain. It has the PP lead at just 3.5%... but up in 2 days from their previous poll lead of 2.3%

    It looks as though PP and VOX combined will just get past 175 to form a majority though that's not certain.

    I presume PP will form a minority - I can't imagine Feijoo wants any of the VOX MPs anywhere near Government and I presume he has a fall back in case it all goes wrong with VOX in the form of a grand coalition with PSOE.

    The trouble will be if the VOX horse is seen to be pulling the PP cart.
    Yes and if PSOE won't play ball there'll be another poll. I'm not sure the voters would be so forgiving if they have to do it again. If the polls are right then there really are no other options if they miss 176.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    Seems a bit odd to have them on the same day but IANAAnaesthetist. Good luck.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    IanB2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Thank heaven for modern dentistry. Root canal treatment may not be nice but it's a darn sight better than what was available to earlier generations

    I had it two years ago, and it caused no end of problems. Continual pain from the tooth, which in the end I accepted should be removed - having already paid over £1000 for a filling and two root canals in it, plus various investigations. After removal of the tooth I still have the pain, and it remains a mystery.
    Sounds like the ghost pains suffered by amputees in their now non-existent limbs

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Mind you it’s kinda time we had another PB death. When was the last one? Mark Senior? It’s been a while and none of us is getting any younger. We can’t dodge the actuarial reality forever.

    So @kinabalu I salute you for stepping up to the role. Seriously. Thanks for all the bantz. I will toast your memory in our favourite Belsize Park pub.

    Great. And one request - play some REO Speedwagon and get a good vibe on.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Miklosvar said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    There is a suggestion in the BBC article at least that the family of the victim are going to press for an appeal on sentence on just that basis. I don't know the judge's reasoning but it feels like one where the Justice Secretary might look to test at the Court of Appeal if the sentencing rule changes were given sufficient weight.
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/

    So, he is category A and he has got the "starting point" sentence for that. I would have said there were aggravating factors (serious injury to other victims; victims are vulnerable road users *while broken down on hard shoulder*). But NB the realistic ceiling is 18 years, not life.
    Shame I’d like to see him banged up for at least 25 years . When you read what he was doing it was jaw dropping , he could have caused even more deaths .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    On a train from Euston to Crewe and the aisles are full of people standing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    nico679 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    There is a suggestion in the BBC article at least that the family of the victim are going to press for an appeal on sentence on just that basis. I don't know the judge's reasoning but it feels like one where the Justice Secretary might look to test at the Court of Appeal if the sentencing rule changes were given sufficient weight.
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/

    So, he is category A and he has got the "starting point" sentence for that. I would have said there were aggravating factors (serious injury to other victims; victims are vulnerable road users *while broken down on hard shoulder*). But NB the realistic ceiling is 18 years, not life.
    Shame I’d like to see him banged up for at least 25 years . When you read what he was doing it was jaw dropping , he could have caused even more deaths .
    The jail sentence does not concern me but surely he should be banned from driving for life, not just barely longer than he'll be inside.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Evening all :)

    I expect this was mentioned earlier but More In Common seem to be following Opinium in revising their methodology to try to deal with the Don't Knows. Said DKs are apparently 50% more likely to vote Conservative over Labour so that meant a 2-point reduction in the Labour lead:

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/voting-intention-july-2023/

    The "likely to vote" Don't Knows split 22% Conservative, 15% Labour, 10% Liberal Democrat and still 40% Don't Know so it's pretty thin gruel for the Conservatives in truth.

    The standard 7-10 Likelihood to vote and excluding DKs has Labour 17 ahead 45-28.

    It will be interesting to see if tomorrow's contests have any significant impact on the polls.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    6h
    London Mayoral Election Voting Intention:

    Khan (LAB): 43% (+3)
    CON: 31% (-4)
    LDM: 16%% (+11)
    Garbett (GRN): 9% (+1)
    Cox (RFM): 1% (New)

    Via
    @Survation
    , 30 Jun - 5 Jul.
    Changes w/ 2021.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1681634896798785536
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Mind you it’s kinda time we had another PB death. When was the last one? Mark Senior? It’s been a while and none of us is getting any younger. We can’t dodge the actuarial reality forever.

    So @kinabalu I salute you for stepping up to the role. Seriously. Thanks for all the bantz. I will toast your memory in our favourite Belsize Park pub.

    Great. And one request - play some REO Speedwagon and get a good vibe on.
    We will inscribe Greatly Missed, He Tipped Australia 2-1 At 26 on your tombstone. now in to 10.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    This is a position that is very popular on PB, but the issue with it is that it's not an accurate portrayal of how the process has worked in actual leadership elections. In the most recent example, Sunak (and his campaign manager Gavin Williamson) used the fact that he was the runaway favourite with the PCP (careerists flocked to him early) to donate supporters to other candidates and knock out more serious opponents. He manoeuvred himself into a run off with Truss - and of course as we now know he was too shit to even beat her. It is the shenanigans of the PCP that are at fault here, not the voting instincts of the membership.

    Going back further, after William Hague, we see a lot of blame on the members for Iain Duncan Smith, but once again, it was MPs who rejected Portillo, a mildly euroskeptic candidate, who would have been OK for everyone, and forced the members to choose between IDS and Clarke.

    It is a wider trend in politics of people thinking they're very clever in forcing electorates to accept something unpalatable, by offering an alternative that is *unthinkable*. Unsurprisingly, it rebounds and the electorate often chooses the supposedly unthinkable. Brexit is an example.
    Surely the problem was not that they rejected Portillo but they failed to reject Iain Duncan Smith?

    That's where the idea of MPs as a safety net fairly obviously went wrong.

    Labour unfortunately failed to learn, putting first Abbott, then Corbyn and finally Wrong Daily on the ballot too.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I expect this was mentioned earlier but More In Common seem to be following Opinium in revising their methodology to try to deal with the Don't Knows. Said DKs are apparently 50% more likely to vote Conservative over Labour so that meant a 2-point reduction in the Labour lead:

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/voting-intention-july-2023/

    The "likely to vote" Don't Knows split 22% Conservative, 15% Labour, 10% Liberal Democrat and still 40% Don't Know so it's pretty thin gruel for the Conservatives in truth.

    The standard 7-10 Likelihood to vote and excluding DKs has Labour 17 ahead 45-28.

    It will be interesting to see if tomorrow's contests have any significant impact on the polls.

    I had understood that was the case but thanks for the confirmation Stodge
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    My root canal led to trigeminal neuralgia which is exceptionally painful. Been on anti-depressants at a low dose to dull the pain for the last year. Seeing a neurologist next week to see if there are alternative treatments.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    geoffw said:

    Yevgeny Prigozhin tells his Wagner mercenaries in Belarus that they will not fight in Ukraine and asks them to prepare for a “new journey to Africa”
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/7/19/russia-ukraine-live-news-moscow-strikes-odesa-for-second-night

    Sad are the eyes
    But no tears
    The flight of the Wild Geese
    Brings a new hope
    Rescue from all this...
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
    That should be aggravating from the deterrence point of view, as it's exactly the age group most liable to do this sort of thing. He wasn't drunk or high is the best that can be said for him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    My root canal led to trigeminal neuralgia which is exceptionally painful. Been on anti-depressants at a low dose to dull the pain for the last year. Seeing a neurologist next week to see if there are alternative treatments.
    Yikes. Sympathies.

    Mine was horrible painful but then I was fine
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Now that @kinabalu has sadly departed us I’d like to say that I rather miss the silly old fool

    That’s what I’d LIKE to say but in reality I’m glad he’s dead. Couldn’t stand the man. Thank God he’s gone
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Miklosvar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
    That should be aggravating from the deterrence point of view, as it's exactly the age group most liable to do this sort of thing. He wasn't drunk or high is the best that can be said for him.
    Since he had already had several driving incidents logged including a conviction for driving without insurance, a warning for driving dangerously and had made a habit of putting speeding videos on Facebook showing it was a pattern it's even more surprising he was given a relatively short sentence.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    ydoethur said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
    That should be aggravating from the deterrence point of view, as it's exactly the age group most liable to do this sort of thing. He wasn't drunk or high is the best that can be said for him.
    Since he had already had several driving incidents logged including a conviction for driving without insurance, a warning for driving dangerously and had made a habit of putting speeding videos on Facebook showing it was a pattern it's even more surprising he was given a relatively short sentence.
    I have just seen he pleaded guilty which is worth a third off, implying the starting point was the top-of-the-range 18 years. I don't think this sentence is very vulnerable to appeal.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    ydoethur said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
    That should be aggravating from the deterrence point of view, as it's exactly the age group most liable to do this sort of thing. He wasn't drunk or high is the best that can be said for him.
    Since he had already had several driving incidents logged including a conviction for driving without insurance, a warning for driving dangerously and had made a habit of putting speeding videos on Facebook showing it was a pattern it's even more surprising he was given a relatively short sentence.
    That pattern points to a greater problem with the system. Punishment varies wildly between 12 years or more for killing people, which we can assume was inadvertent, down to almost nothing for a string of very similar driving offences without ploughing into anyone. 12 years or nothing based on what he and his mates might see as just bad luck that he lost control. Even a short driving ban might have made all the difference, not least to the victims.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    My root canal led to trigeminal neuralgia which is exceptionally painful. Been on anti-depressants at a low dose to dull the pain for the last year. Seeing a neurologist next week to see if there are alternative treatments.
    My root canal went largely ok. Painful - but I wasn't even sedated or anything. Just the same anaesthetic I had for a normal filling.
    If I'm to give any negative spin at all, the dentist has ever since looked a bit askance at that corner of my mouth. But that was 20 years ago, and it's held up fine since then.
    Chances are, you'll be fine.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Greens are parachuting in a London resident to Brighton Pavilion which may not be the wisest of moves given the drubbing they took in the local elections:

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23667303.sian-berry-next-green-candidate-brighton-pavilion/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    I am rather drunk and slightly sunburned.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    DougSeal said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    6h
    London Mayoral Election Voting Intention:

    Khan (LAB): 43% (+3)
    CON: 31% (-4)
    LDM: 16%% (+11)
    Garbett (GRN): 9% (+1)
    Cox (RFM): 1% (New)

    Via
    @Survation
    , 30 Jun - 5 Jul.
    Changes w/ 2021.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1681634896798785536

    An uninspiring start for the Conservative Mayoral candidate - she will likely hold 25-30% of the vote across London but that's about it. Khan remains in a very strong position.

    Susan Hall's support of Truss and Kwarteng will be played for all its worth by Labour and I can't see her appealing in the likes of Sutton, Kingston, Richmond and other parts of SW London which may explain the decent LD showing.

    Now all the LDs have to do is pick a better candidate than last time.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Susan Hall selected as Conservative candidate for London Mayor with 57 per cent of Tory London members votes. Probably the most right wing candidate the Conservatives have chosen for London Mayor she will run hard against ULEZ and a on a tough on crime agenda. While she could do well in the suburbs, hard to see her doing well in inner London

    It does feel very much like the London Tories looking inwards and relinquishing any shot at power in favour of ideological purity. Which is perhaps unsurprising but disappointing for the quality of local democracy. I wonder if the same instincts will play out nationally?

    It's always important to have a good Opposition, but it feels particularly important that we have a decent one in the next few years - some hard choices are going to need to be made.
    This may be unpopular with some but I simply don't think party members are the right people to make such choices. It's a party talking to itself and not looking outwards at the voters.
    There are certainly downsides to having small party leadership cliques deciding things, but I'm at a loss as to what is actually gained from members generally doing so either. I don't know the London candidates so cannot judge a good candidate there, but in general it seems to encourage candidates to just say whatever reactionary things will please members the most.

    When it comes to party leader for instance the idea seems to have been it would help get more members involved, but the figures show that has not happened at all. Instead, it seems to have magnified the entitled of the members to be pandered to, and you even see comments about what is the point of being a member if you don't get to vote for leader, a la Rishi, even though it is a recent innovation and party membership was much higher in the past.
    Letting the party members vote for leader may look very democratic for the party but it leads to Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss.
    I'm sure the electorate at large would rather have the MPs alone decide or even Labour's old approach of 1/3 MPs, 1/3 Unions 1nd 1/3 members or similar for the Tories. Maybe involve councillors too, at least they'd have some political nous.
    As it is we get whoever the small number of activist members choose and usually have to wait years before we get to hammer them for their choice.
    This is a position that is very popular on PB, but the issue with it is that it's not an accurate portrayal of how the process has worked in actual leadership elections. In the most recent example, Sunak (and his campaign manager Gavin Williamson) used the fact that he was the runaway favourite with the PCP (careerists flocked to him early) to donate supporters to other candidates and knock out more serious opponents. He manoeuvred himself into a run off with Truss - and of course as we now know he was too shit to even beat her. It is the shenanigans of the PCP that are at fault here, not the voting instincts of the membership.

    Going back further, after William Hague, we see a lot of blame on the members for Iain Duncan Smith, but once again, it was MPs who rejected Portillo, a mildly euroskeptic candidate, who would have been OK for everyone, and forced the members to choose between IDS and Clarke.

    It is a wider trend in politics of people thinking they're very clever in forcing electorates to accept something unpalatable, by offering an alternative that is *unthinkable*. Unsurprisingly, it rebounds and the electorate often chooses the supposedly unthinkable. Brexit is an example.
    Surely the problem was not that they rejected Portillo but they failed to reject Iain Duncan Smith?

    That's where the idea of MPs as a safety net fairly obviously went wrong.

    Labour unfortunately failed to learn, putting first Abbott, then Corbyn and finally Wrong Daily on the ballot too.
    The reason they failed to reject IDS was not some enthusiasm for IDS but a lamentation that Ken Clarke refused to compromise on his Europhilia.
    Which is in some respects admirable.
    But in others utterly frustating.
    He could have led the party, and possibly the country, if he'd been willing to put together the sort of half-hearted fudge on Europe Gordon Brown managed to extract from Tony Blair(for entirely different reasons).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Miklosvar said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, personal update, the time is nigh: I have a sedated MRI at the hospital, then I go to the dentist for root canal. C'mon baby let the good times roll.

    Have written a silly little poem to distract and cheer myself up:

    (to the Elvis tune)

    I lost use of my left ear
    Couldn’t hear things on that side
    Maybe you could have ditched me
    But instead you really tried
    Making sure that you spoke to me
    From where your voice could still be mine
    You were always on my right
    You were always on my right
    :smile:

    Sounds rubbish. Are these 2 non-related contingencies? Good luck anyway.
    The poem's rubbish? I'm hurt!

    But seriously, cheers thanks, and yes we're talking 2 separate things. Can't complain really. No health drama for my whole adult life till this - v lucky.
    Root canal is fairly horrible but you’ll cope

    MRI sounds a bit scarier. Good luck
    Seems a bit odd to have them on the same day but IANAAnaesthetist. Good luck.
    Not quite on the same day.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    geoffw said:

    Thank heaven for modern dentistry. Root canal treatment may not be nice but it's a darn sight better than what was available to earlier generations

    I was "lucky" to start root canal treatments before anaesthesia had reached its contemporary prevalence. Now they feel comfortable by comparison.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    Leon said:

    Mind you it’s kinda time we had another PB death. When was the last one? Mark Senior?

    @nichomar died some time after March 2021. We have had another fatality since but I did not make a contemporaneous note and forgot, and repeated requests of the PB brains trust have been ignored - guys, c'mon. There have also been multiple deaths of relatives and spouses but I don't keep track of them.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Leon said:

    Now that @kinabalu has sadly departed us I’d like to say that I rather miss the silly old fool

    That’s what I’d LIKE to say but in reality I’m glad he’s dead. Couldn’t stand the man. Thank God he’s gone

    Kinalabu may be gone
    but his postings carry on
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    EPG said:

    geoffw said:

    Thank heaven for modern dentistry. Root canal treatment may not be nice but it's a darn sight better than what was available to earlier generations

    I was "lucky" to start root canal treatments before anaesthesia had reached its contemporary prevalence. Now they feel comfortable by comparison.
    You must be implausibly old, surely? High street dentists used to use general anaesthetics even for extractions, occasionally making the news when the patient did not wake up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Mind you it’s kinda time we had another PB death. When was the last one? Mark Senior?

    @nichomar died some time after March 2021. We have had another fatality since but I did not make a contemporaneous note and forgot, and repeated requests of the PB brains trust have been ignored - guys, c'mon. There have also been multiple deaths of relatives and spouses but I don't keep track of them.
    I assume for many of us, if we die suddenly, no one's gonna log on to PB to mention the fact.

    Mrs P. regards my PB addiction as a mildly embarrassing eccentricity, best not mentioned in company. Letting you lot know of my demise would not be on her to do list tbh.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,750

    Leon said:

    Now that @kinabalu has sadly departed us I’d like to say that I rather miss the silly old fool

    That’s what I’d LIKE to say but in reality I’m glad he’s dead. Couldn’t stand the man. Thank God he’s gone

    Kinalabu may be gone
    but his postings carry on
    Now he's haunting poor Leon?
  • stodge said:

    DougSeal said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    6h
    London Mayoral Election Voting Intention:

    Khan (LAB): 43% (+3)
    CON: 31% (-4)
    LDM: 16%% (+11)
    Garbett (GRN): 9% (+1)
    Cox (RFM): 1% (New)

    Via
    @Survation
    , 30 Jun - 5 Jul.
    Changes w/ 2021.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1681634896798785536

    An uninspiring start for the Conservative Mayoral candidate - she will likely hold 25-30% of the vote across London but that's about it. Khan remains in a very strong position.

    Susan Hall's support of Truss and Kwarteng will be played for all its worth by Labour and I can't see her appealing in the likes of Sutton, Kingston, Richmond and other parts of SW London which may explain the decent LD showing.

    Now all the LDs have to do is pick a better candidate than last time.
    That poll long predates Hall's selection.

    And the Lib Dems will be mercilessly squeezed in a FPTP mayoral election in a city where they simply aren't on the map in many areas, being realistic about it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    Well.

    I am going to praise Andrew Bridgen and Laura Pidcock. Someone has to.

    Why?

    Andrew Bridgen made an allegation in the House of Commons yesterday on behalf of two of his constituents that by 2014 the Government (as well as the Post Office) had evidence that they had been wrongly convicted. Bear in mind that, if true, this was 5 years before the Bates case which blew the whole scandal wide open and led to the inquiry. Will the relevant Minister rebut this charge or let it lie? And if the latter, it raises some very serious questions about the government's handling of the compensation schemes since then. 9 years later Mr Bridgen's constituents still have received no compensation.

    Laura Pidcock

    In a Tweet she said this.

    Something the Mayor of London, the Labour leader and the Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities have felt unable or unwilling to say.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Leon said:

    Now that @kinabalu has sadly departed us I’d like to say that I rather miss the silly old fool

    That’s what I’d LIKE to say but in reality I’m glad he’s dead. Couldn’t stand the man. Thank God he’s gone

    Kinalabu may be gone
    but his postings carry on
    Now he's haunting poor Leon?
    If I get to the other side before Leon, I'm gonna start popping those Mail Online messages onto his screen every 5 minutes or so.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Leon said:

    Now that @kinabalu has sadly departed us I’d like to say that I rather miss the silly old fool

    That’s what I’d LIKE to say but in reality I’m glad he’s dead. Couldn’t stand the man. Thank God he’s gone

    Kinalabu may be gone
    but his postings carry on
    We will all have a ghostly presence on the interweb, long after our mortal remains have rotted.

    A friend of mine died 6 years ago, and you can still read his Facebook musings, some ominously prescient.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Wtf is wrong with some judges .

    Absolutely disgracefully inadequate sentence handed down for a man who killed a pregnant woman and left her son and nephew in comas after filming himself speeding at 126 mph on his phone .

    12 years ! Should be a life sentence given the government allowed for that in a recent change to sentencing guidelines for death by dangerous driving .

    I agree. Maybe taking into account the fact he was 22 years old?
    He has plenty of time to reflect on his actions in prison but this wasn’t a one off moment of madness . At 22 there are no excuses, you know right from wrong .
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    Some of you may want to attend this event: https://www.sshga.org/

    But you will have to hurry.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    The Greens are parachuting in a London resident to Brighton Pavilion which may not be the wisest of moves given the drubbing they took in the local elections:

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23667303.sian-berry-next-green-candidate-brighton-pavilion/

    I met my wife at a disco organised by Sian Berry
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992

    stodge said:

    DougSeal said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    6h
    London Mayoral Election Voting Intention:

    Khan (LAB): 43% (+3)
    CON: 31% (-4)
    LDM: 16%% (+11)
    Garbett (GRN): 9% (+1)
    Cox (RFM): 1% (New)

    Via
    @Survation
    , 30 Jun - 5 Jul.
    Changes w/ 2021.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1681634896798785536

    An uninspiring start for the Conservative Mayoral candidate - she will likely hold 25-30% of the vote across London but that's about it. Khan remains in a very strong position.

    Susan Hall's support of Truss and Kwarteng will be played for all its worth by Labour and I can't see her appealing in the likes of Sutton, Kingston, Richmond and other parts of SW London which may explain the decent LD showing.

    Now all the LDs have to do is pick a better candidate than last time.
    That poll long predates Hall's selection.

    And the Lib Dems will be mercilessly squeezed in a FPTP mayoral election in a city where they simply aren't on the map in many areas, being realistic about it.
    I suspect most LDs, given a choice between Khan, Hall and Binface will head to the Count - I know I would,
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Cyclefree said:

    Well.

    I am going to praise Andrew Bridgen and Laura Pidcock. Someone has to.

    Why?

    Andrew Bridgen made an allegation in the House of Commons yesterday on behalf of two of his constituents that by 2014 the Government (as well as the Post Office) had evidence that they had been wrongly convicted. Bear in mind that, if true, this was 5 years before the Bates case which blew the whole scandal wide open and led to the inquiry. Will the relevant Minister rebut this charge or let it lie? And if the latter, it raises some very serious questions about the government's handling of the compensation schemes since then. 9 years later Mr Bridgen's constituents still have received no compensation.

    Laura Pidcock

    In a Tweet she said this.

    Something the Mayor of London, the Labour leader and the Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities have felt unable or unwilling to say.

    Well Pidcock's right.
    But I find it slightly lamentable that we're only apparently allowed to say this is wrong from a feminist perspective.
    Sarah Jane Baker is regrettable not because he/she is saying things that are regrettabke from the perspective of feminism but because he/she is saying things which are wrong full stop.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I think we should have a memorial service for Kinabz. It’s not like a PBer dies every day


    So let’s give him due. We can start now

    THE OFFICIAL PB MEMORIAL SERVICE IN HONOUR OF THE LATE KINABALU, PARISHIONER OF THIS MANOR


    That @kinabalu eh?

    Eh?


    Ok that’s enough. We can move on now
This discussion has been closed.