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Just 31% of CON MPs think LAB will secure a majority – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,217
edited July 2023 in General
imageJust 31% of CON MPs think LAB will secure a majority – politicalbetting.com

As can be seen the betting markets are rating the chance of a CON majority as an 10.4% chance which is way off the YouGov polling of Tory MPs. This is of course backed up by real money.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Well, given their skills at picking PM candidates ...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,415

    I think the YouGov poll of Tory MPs is completely meaningless, tbh.

    Yes, so do I. Informative but not conclusive. We are still over a year out.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    Tory MPs have spent the last 13 years getting every single thing wrong, so with that record a Labour landslide must be nailed on.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Talk is cheap, how much will they bet?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148

    I think the YouGov poll of Tory MPs is completely meaningless, tbh.

    How many would be wondering if some employee would see their response, and believe it in the public interest to tell the Guardian - “Tory MP X says party will lose next election.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005
    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
    Interestingly, they had to be pressured in that direction in the recent financial services bill. But whether they connected bank branches closing with problems in dealing with brown envelopes I don't know. That needs an IQ on the level of sapient pearwood.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    edited July 2023
    Current temperatures

    Rome 33
    Naples 31
    Lisbon 26
    Milan 28
    Nice 28
    Barcelona 29
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
    Most politicians take payment in opportunities after they have finished their career. Hence speeches for 6 figures, jobs for 1 days work a year, book advances on books that will sell a few hundred copies etc.

    In America it goes much further, with share options a tiny fraction of face value etc….
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
    Most politicians take payment in opportunities after they have finished their career. Hence speeches for 6 figures, jobs for 1 days work a year, book advances on books that will sell a few hundred copies etc.

    In America it goes much further, with share options a tiny fraction of face value etc….
    I appreciate brown envelopes are merely the tip of the iceberg but on the other hand ever met a politician not greedy enough not to give up even that tip?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    31% admit it. Which means at least double think it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    0.84 Scottish ferry builds to completion.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    You say that like its a bad thing
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    Drones/cheap cruise missile proliferation mean that in future wars relying on fixed bases may not be a good idea.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    0.84 Scottish ferry builds to completion.
    OTOH, Scottish railway projects and bridges do quite well by rUK standards, which is interesting in more than one way. They just don't talk about them in the Unionist newspapers, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256

    I think the YouGov poll of Tory MPs is completely meaningless, tbh.

    Their predictions are rubbish, but it's an interesting glimpse into how they perceive the world.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    edited July 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    FPT:

    @Carnyx I replied to your kind comment on the last thread because I type so bloody slow.

    @Peck I didn't even get around to replying to your comment because I was typing so slow in replying to Carnyx, but in reply to your comment about why companies use cheques in those circumstances - that is very cynical of you. I hope you are wrong, but there is that sneaky feeling you might not be.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    Andy_JS said:

    Current temperatures

    Rome 33
    Naples 31
    Lisbon 26
    Milan 28
    Nice 28
    Barcelona 29

    Leeds 14
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
    Most politicians take payment in opportunities after they have finished their career. Hence speeches for 6 figures, jobs for 1 days work a year, book advances on books that will sell a few hundred copies etc.

    In America it goes much further, with share options a tiny fraction of face value etc….
    I appreciate brown envelopes are merely the tip of the iceberg but on the other hand ever met a politician not greedy enough not to give up even that tip?
    Actually taking cash in an envelope would be just for profoundly stupid people. Risk vs reward.

    You can literally advertise the post career stuff on your personal website. One leak about one envelope and you are toast.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    0.84 Scottish ferry builds to completion.
    OTOH, Scottish railway projects and bridges do quite well by rUK standards, which is interesting in more than one way. They just don't talk about them in the Unionist newspapers, though.
    That’s a very low bar indeed. ‘Well, the bad news is it’s a complete failure. The good news is nobody misled Parliament over it to try and get it cancelled.’

    The Borders line strikes me as a good example. Delivered on time and in budget and very popular from all I hear - but what prat decided not to electrify it, run it with clapped out two car DMUs and terminate it at Tweedbank?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Will the Tories be putting up more paper candidates next time?

    Or have they gone paperless and just use their phones?

    Cash-free? No more brown paper envelopes? My.
    The advantages of brown envelopes is it means politicians will never vote for a cash free society
    Most politicians take payment in opportunities after they have finished their career. Hence speeches for 6 figures, jobs for 1 days work a year, book advances on books that will sell a few hundred copies etc.

    In America it goes much further, with share options a tiny fraction of face value etc….
    I appreciate brown envelopes are merely the tip of the iceberg but on the other hand ever met a politician not greedy enough not to give up even that tip?
    Actually taking cash in an envelope would be just for profoundly stupid people. Risk vs reward.

    You can literally advertise the post career stuff on your personal website. One leak about one envelope and you are toast.
    yet many do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    And if the Ukrainians had kept their deterrent?

    Besides is there a conceivable situation for which Russia commit to a conventional attack on the UK? They cant even get past Ukraine, I'd imagine Poland would be 10x harder and our islander would be on the puffin diet if he even tried.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    And if the Ukrainians had kept their deterrent?

    Besides is there a conceivable situation for which Russia commit to a conventional attack on the UK? They cant even get past Ukraine, I'd imagine Poland would be 10x harder and our islander would be on the puffin diet if he even tried.
    If they had kept their deterrent the russian arseholes wouldn't have taken a holiday in crimea
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Lucy Fisher
    @LOS_Fisher
    ·
    Jul 9
    I’ve been to Uxbridge twice in the past fortnight to speak to voters in different parts of the seat.

    Most striking thing was how many people said variations of ‘it’s time for a change’.

    V good news for Labour if it’s a UK-wide trend…

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    0.84 Scottish ferry builds to completion.
    OTOH, Scottish railway projects and bridges do quite well by rUK standards, which is interesting in more than one way. They just don't talk about them in the Unionist newspapers, though.
    That’s a very low bar indeed. ‘Well, the bad news is it’s a complete failure. The good news is nobody misled Parliament over it to try and get it cancelled.’

    The Borders line strikes me as a good example. Delivered on time and in budget and very popular from all I hear - but what prat decided not to electrify it, run it with clapped out two car DMUs and terminate it at Tweedbank?
    The standard Trseasury model, I believe. Came out with the wrong, or right, figures depending on one's p of v - happened before, eg with the Bathgate line which was a huge success contary to the model (but was proper built, double track all the way with electric). The other problem however was relentless political opposition from the usual suspects, which made proper construction all the more politically difficult. Didn't help having the sort of *local* councillor who actually called for the money to be spent oin glasgow instead.

    Though there are more and sometimews longer trains now.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    If you believe the UK is going to fight a conventional war against Russia then, as the SMO demonstrates, doing anything other than buying massive stockpiles of ammo is probably pointless. It's difficult to get political will for that because a warehouse isn't an exciting photo op like a FGR4 on the M62 is.

    The Russians can't take Kharkov which is 30 fucking km from their border so the idea that they are any sort of conventional threat to the UK is as threadbare as Sunak's undescended testicles.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    edited July 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    There wont be any planes right? The bases will be gone, the pilots gone. It just seems they might be better off practicing sinking small boats for when Reform get in.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    If you believe the UK is going to fight a conventional war against Russia then, as the SMO demonstrates, doing anything other than buying massive stockpiles of ammo is probably pointless. It's difficult to get political will for that because a warehouse isn't an exciting photo op like a FGR4 on the M62 is.

    The Russians can't take Kharkov which is 30 fucking km from their border so the idea that they are any sort of conventional threat to the UK is as threadbare as Sunak's undescended testicles.
    Dads army could probably beat the russian war machine from what we have seen
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    O/T

    Does anyone known whether QR codes can usually be scanned from laptop screens? If so it would make life slightly easier.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Does anyone known whether QR codes can usually be scanned from laptop screens? If so it would make life slightly easier.

    if you mean can you point a phone at your laptop screen the answer is yes
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    If you believe the UK is going to fight a conventional war against Russia then, as the SMO demonstrates, doing anything other than buying massive stockpiles of ammo is probably pointless. It's difficult to get political will for that because a warehouse isn't an exciting photo op like a FGR4 on the M62 is.

    The Russians can't take Kharkov which is 30 fucking km from their border so the idea that they are any sort of conventional threat to the UK is as threadbare as Sunak's undescended testicles.
    All probably true - but I bet you'd have a go at it if offered the chance.
    You could break your motorway speed record.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Does anyone known whether QR codes can usually be scanned from laptop screens? If so it would make life slightly easier.

    Yes, that is how you sign into the web interface of Whatsapp.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point of preparation is to raise the cost of war - and hopefully prevent it.
    Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could easily defeat it.

    In a sensible world everyone would have smaller armed forces - but that means everyone.
    If you believe the UK is going to fight a conventional war against Russia then, as the SMO demonstrates, doing anything other than buying massive stockpiles of ammo is probably pointless. It's difficult to get political will for that because a warehouse isn't an exciting photo op like a FGR4 on the M62 is.

    The Russians can't take Kharkov which is 30 fucking km from their border so the idea that they are any sort of conventional threat to the UK is as threadbare as Sunak's undescended testicles.
    You need to start switching on, laddie. Have you not heard our generals on the media saying that the UK should put itself on a war footing which means (huge shock) dramatically increasing defence spending and fort he general population to be prepared for war.

    Coz we is the UK innit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Yes, but if Stonehenge traffic is sticky *because* people want to drive past Stonehenge, this plan won't help.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Becauise it looks better for a pol being photographed with hi-vis with the stones as a backdrop, rather than some manky bit of the unknown [to London elite types] world north of Watford Gap.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Does anyone known whether QR codes can usually be scanned from laptop screens? If so it would make life slightly easier.

    Using a laptop to get through the ticket barrier at the station might be a bit cumbersome.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Does anyone known whether QR codes can usually be scanned from laptop screens? If so it would make life slightly easier.

    They can. I know not because I understand any of this stuff, but because I have done it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Yes, but if Stonehenge traffic is sticky *because* people want to drive past Stonehenge, this plan won't help.
    Well, it would, because it would stop them from dawdling to gape at it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Yes, but if Stonehenge traffic is sticky *because* people want to drive past Stonehenge, this plan won't help.
    Well, it would, because it would stop them from dawdling to gape at it.
    I believe the idea is not merely to close the A303 past the stones, above ground, but also to remove the [edit] stretch past the stones.

    Will also make it easier to fortify it with razor wire and charge more folk (for seeing it was what I meant, but I daresay it will increase the tactical options for the next Battle of the Beanfield).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Your kidding, right? It is the main commuter highway for army officers to get back to Warminster/Netheravon/Salisbury Plain/etc after partying the previous night in London.

    I think it's a shame they are burying the road. Yes it is often at a standstill but it was great to see the stones come into sight as you drive over the hill at O Fuck Hundred hours. And for me it will stand out as being the road where I have driven the fastest I have ever driven.

    130mph plus and a Vauxhall Senator (replacement hire car) if you must know.

    The pressure did something or other inside the car I'm sure Dura can explain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Yes, but if Stonehenge traffic is sticky *because* people want to drive past Stonehenge, this plan won't help.
    Well, it would, because it would stop them from dawdling to gape at it.
    I believe the idea is not merely to close the A303 past the stones, above ground, but also to remove the [edit] stretch past the stones.

    Will also make it easier to fortify it with razor wire and charge more folk (for seeing it was what I meant, but I daresay it will increase the tactical options for the next Battle of the Beanfield).
    The one time I went to Stonehenge, I didn't pay a thing.

    I cycled up from Salisbury and went along the public footpath behind the fence.

    I don't think I lost anything by doing so either, except possibly some weight I could easily do without.

    Lovely cycle run too.

    The only scary bit was crossing the A303...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    On topic, I think its sweet that as many Tory as MPs as reported still think the party will win the election. Sure, plenty of individual MPs will win their seats. But the party being re-elected as the government? Bless.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
    Anything more than 21,000lbs (depending on engine variant and local conditions) and you aren't going anywhere vertically in a Harrier so VTOL is useless for actual ops.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    Privacy watchdog backs plans allowing financial data to be shared with gambling firms
    ... banks can share people’s personal information as long as it is done "transparently and proportionately"

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/gambling-review/privacy-watchdog-backs-plans-allowing-financial-data-to-be-shared-with-gambling-firms-a5Yud4N5v7Ua/

    Maybe cash under the bed would be safer, or at least more discreet.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Andy_JS said:

    Current temperatures

    Rome 33
    Naples 31
    Lisbon 26
    Milan 28
    Nice 28
    Barcelona 29

    Here near Mojacar in SE Spain 31 degrees a very typical summertime temperature. The UK news media have completely lost the plot.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    I wonder whether NOM at 4, (25%, or 3/1), could be value? I notice that of the groups polled here (feels a bit voodoo?) none have even a bare majority backing a Labour victory (325+).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Conservative MPs are not being honest here. It happens.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
    Anything more than 21,000lbs (depending on engine variant and local conditions) and you aren't going anywhere vertically in a Harrier so VTOL is useless for actual ops.
    Just rmemembering when I were a bairn the fuss that was made when some poor crab fat type got the job of landing and taking off a RAF Harrier from the old railway coal delivery sidings where the BL or something is now, at St Pancras to race a FAA Phantom across the Atlantic. The amount of coal dust blasted up must have been phenomenal.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=air+race+harrier+st+pancras#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6419c1d1,vid:Dt45BENU7_0

    ISTR it was made out as a major triumph in the Cold War preparations, but they wernt and cancelled the VTOL transport needed to supply it. And as you say it couldn't take off unless it had a field as well to run along. No idea how well it could operate off grass.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
    Anything more than 21,000lbs (depending on engine variant and local conditions) and you aren't going anywhere vertically in a Harrier so VTOL is useless for actual ops.
    Just rmemembering when I were a bairn the fuss that was made when some poor crab fat type got the job of landing and taking off a RAF Harrier from the old railway coal delivery sidings where the BL or something is now, at St Pancras to race a FAA Phantom across the Atlantic. The amount of coal dust blasted up must have been phenomenal.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=air+race+harrier+st+pancras#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6419c1d1,vid:Dt45BENU7_0

    ISTR it was made out as a major triumph in the Cold War preparations, but they wernt and cancelled the VTOL transport needed to supply it. And as you say it couldn't take off unless it had a field as well to run along. No idea how well it could operate off grass.
    The Harrrier pilot was artfully selected as he was an ETPS graduate, had decades of experience in just about every post war RAF jet and was renowned for having "good hands".
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited July 2023
    The header is wrong - only 16% of Con MPs think Lab will get a majority (3% large majority, 13% small majority).

    The light red bar is a Hung Parliament with a Labour led Govt (18%)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Hmm, the hidden subtext is that the landlord is unwell and perhaps out of it physically or mentally and his children probably need to fund his care. So it's not a case of Mr Rachman Mk 2 either.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
    Anything more than 21,000lbs (depending on engine variant and local conditions) and you aren't going anywhere vertically in a Harrier so VTOL is useless for actual ops.
    Just rmemembering when I were a bairn the fuss that was made when some poor crab fat type got the job of landing and taking off a RAF Harrier from the old railway coal delivery sidings where the BL or something is now, at St Pancras to race a FAA Phantom across the Atlantic. The amount of coal dust blasted up must have been phenomenal.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=air+race+harrier+st+pancras#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6419c1d1,vid:Dt45BENU7_0

    ISTR it was made out as a major triumph in the Cold War preparations, but they wernt and cancelled the VTOL transport needed to supply it. And as you say it couldn't take off unless it had a field as well to run along. No idea how well it could operate off grass.
    Grass TOs didn't degrade performance at all - no problem. Grass landing: fucking terrifying as it liked to swap ends. Hence the aluminium mats for dispersed ops in the Cold War.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    Some northern bits of the M6 wouldn't be too disruptive.
    The M45, perhaps?

    You'd have to take down a few smart motorway gantries.
    I'm liking this plan already.
    They used to have things called "Harriers" which didn't need long strips of tarmac to take off. Problem, ISTR, was they got given away to the USMC to tidy up the accounts. But I'm not sure how good they were in actually carrying bombloads in VTOL, and getting the support vehicles, spares etc. to some basha in the woods in the middle of **** nowhere was also a big problem, even if the RAF Regiment got great photo ops in their Landies and CVRT out of it all.
    Anything more than 21,000lbs (depending on engine variant and local conditions) and you aren't going anywhere vertically in a Harrier so VTOL is useless for actual ops.
    Just rmemembering when I were a bairn the fuss that was made when some poor crab fat type got the job of landing and taking off a RAF Harrier from the old railway coal delivery sidings where the BL or something is now, at St Pancras to race a FAA Phantom across the Atlantic. The amount of coal dust blasted up must have been phenomenal.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=air+race+harrier+st+pancras#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6419c1d1,vid:Dt45BENU7_0

    ISTR it was made out as a major triumph in the Cold War preparations, but they wernt and cancelled the VTOL transport needed to supply it. And as you say it couldn't take off unless it had a field as well to run along. No idea how well it could operate off grass.
    Grass TOs didn't degrade performance at all - no problem. Grass landing: fucking terrifying as it liked to swap ends.
    Oh, why did the grass have that property?
  • You mean Con MPs may be a wee bit out of touch? But if they actually faced the facts they'd be resigning, semi-resigning and announcing their retirements in droves wouldn't they...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Surely the lack of affordable housing is not unconnected with the fact that the population of the UK has grown by around 20% in the last 30 years - a historically unprecedented increase in either real or absolute terms?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    Cookie said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Surely the lack of affordable housing is not unconnected with the fact that the population of the UK has grown by around 20% in the last 30 years - a historically unprecedented increase in either real or absolute terms?
    Up to a point but there are also vast tracts of the country where you can't give homes away. The economy is desperately unbalanced, hence Levelling Up (the slogan, not the reality) and Brexit.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    MikeL said:

    The header is wrong - only 16% of Con MPs think Lab will get a majority (3% large majority, 13% small majority).

    The light red bar is a Hung Parliament with a Labour led Govt (18%)

    Yes. Also it is the category with the most consistent level of support across the groups. Perhaps it is the view of Mr Sensible. It should not be ruled out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Cookie said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Surely the lack of affordable housing is not unconnected with the fact that the population of the UK has grown by around 20% in the last 30 years - a historically unprecedented increase in either real or absolute terms?
    It’s more that the advocates (and implementors) of population growth on a scale usually seen in developing countries, demand the expansion of housing and services match a stable population.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/stonehenge-road-tunnel-plans-approved-transport-secretary-concent-widen-roads

    This just out. Wonder which will take longer to build, the henge with every stone shaped and ground by hand, or the tunnel with modern project management and machinery?

    What's the point? As Jeremy Clarkson showed in his race against the sun on Top Gear, the only reason for taking the A303 rather than the M5 and M4 is in order to see Stonehenge. If you are going to drive underneath it, you may as well have taken the motorways in the first place.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuANURnBzWQ
    Possibly to improve traffic flows in the area?

    (Also, have you ever taken the M5 past Bristol?)
    Yes, but if Stonehenge traffic is sticky *because* people want to drive past Stonehenge, this plan won't help.
    Well, it would, because it would stop them from dawdling to gape at it.
    I believe the idea is not merely to close the A303 past the stones, above ground, but also to remove the [edit] stretch past the stones.

    Will also make it easier to fortify it with razor wire and charge more folk (for seeing it was what I meant, but I daresay it will increase the tactical options for the next Battle of the Beanfield).
    The one time I went to Stonehenge, I didn't pay a thing.

    I cycled up from Salisbury and went along the public footpath behind the fence.

    I don't think I lost anything by doing so either, except possibly some weight I could easily do without.

    Lovely cycle run too.

    The only scary bit was crossing the A303...
    I've cycled for about 5km ON the A303 just west of Stonehenge. At night.

    It must be true because Strava says so (well, actually a highlighter mark on an old map, as it was 30 years ago).

    Not the finest decision ever although the traffic wasn't quite as mental then.

    To be fair, the time trials they used to run on the A63 west of Hull were higher up the "is this a good idea?" scale.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    ‘No point climbing the greasy pole’: Tory ministers want out in reshuffle
    ...
    ... talk of a reshuffle next Friday growing, some [ministers] admit privately they have signalled a desire to move to the backbenches. Doing so allows them to start running down the clock on the up-to-two-year ban that can be imposed on taking up a private sector job after leaving Whitehall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/14/no-point-climbing-the-greasy-pole-tory-ministers-want-out-in-reshuffle

    What price Nadine Dorries next Chancellor of the Exchequer?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    MikeL said:

    The header is wrong - only 16% of Con MPs think Lab will get a majority (3% large majority, 13% small majority).

    The light red bar is a Hung Parliament with a Labour led Govt (18%)

    Do MPs not know that if you (as an MP) ask a voter who they are going to vote they are going to lie to you....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    I think if Labour wins a UK wide majority it will be gains from the SNP in Scotland that does it for them
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2023

    Lucy Fisher
    @LOS_Fisher
    ·
    Jul 9
    I’ve been to Uxbridge twice in the past fortnight to speak to voters in different parts of the seat.

    Most striking thing was how many people said variations of ‘it’s time for a change’.

    V good news for Labour if it’s a UK-wide trend…

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher

    'Of course in Uxbridge the expansion of Ulez is a wildcard factor…

    Tonnes of anger about it, with even those not directly affected concerned.

    Some affronted on the part of family/friends impacted, others furious bc they predict local businesses will pass on costs to customers'
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1678002084942082049?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ‘No point climbing the greasy pole’: Tory ministers want out in reshuffle
    ...
    ... talk of a reshuffle next Friday growing, some [ministers] admit privately they have signalled a desire to move to the backbenches. Doing so allows them to start running down the clock on the up-to-two-year ban that can be imposed on taking up a private sector job after leaving Whitehall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/14/no-point-climbing-the-greasy-pole-tory-ministers-want-out-in-reshuffle

    What price Nadine Dorries next Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    No. Truss for CoE and then leader before next GE, which she will win. That’s behind the apparent confidence of the Tories. The market’s up - get in at 60 while you still can. Free money.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited July 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Road Operations Planned For RAF Typhoons, F-35Bs
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/road-operations-planned-raf-typhoons-f-35bs#:~:text=The UK Royal Air Force,Aviation Week on June 13.
    ...Both demonstrations are part of a wider effort to make RAF training more realistic and relevant in modern combat. Nordic countries such as Finland and Sweden have routinely practiced distributing their forces from main operating bases, with the assumption that a Russian attack would cripple most stationary infrastructure within hours of a war beginning.

    Such distributed operating models also were used by NATO members during the Cold War. But the extra costs imposed by such a strategy, including the need for additional spares and trained maintainers, have driven many air forces to focus on optimizing the efficiency of main operating bases.

    The costs of distributed operations have risen with the increasing sophistication of frontline aircraft, such as Typhoons and F-35Bs.

    The demonstrations are intended to reveal any gaps in the RAF’s ability to operate away from its main operating bases for short periods, Smyth said...

    What's the point? Any actual war with Russia and this isle will be atom bombed to fuck. We'll all be dead and some poor Western Isler will have a diet of puffin aux bladder wrack for the next 100 years.
    The point, for the MoD and RAF, is to generate media coverage of something vaguely novel.

    Jaguars used to use the M55 before it opened but it's hard to see where this could be done in the UK without causing fucking chaos.
    In "Threads" the first bomb you see has the grid coordinates of RAF Finningley up on the board [Soon to be compulsorily purchased, apparently, depending on who needs what bung].

    I am told by someone reliable that the runway is many many metres of concrete and therefore bomb proof.

    Not as if the Vulcans were going to return to base, though, was it?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    edited July 2023
    TSE said: "I'm thinking about doing a cashless society thread for Sunday."

    Thanks for the warning. For some reason, I am reminded of this bit from one of my favorite authors:

    "Notoriously insensitive to suble shifts in mood, childen will persist in discussing the color of a recently sighted cement-mixer, long after one's own interest in the topic has waned."

    source$: https://www.amazon.com/Metropolitan-Life-Fran-Lebowitz/dp/0525155627

    (From her "Children: Pro or Con?")
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Cookie said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Surely the lack of affordable housing is not unconnected with the fact that the population of the UK has grown by around 20% in the last 30 years - a historically unprecedented increase in either real or absolute terms?
    Yes. A rise of 10 million, with some quite small areas (like London) disproportionately changed. (Rural Cumbria has hardly changed its population in that time). The combination of a massive increase and the complete failure to plan for it is one of the greatest post war political failures.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,865

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    It's the council's responsibility not the government

    The odd part is that the article doesn't explain why the three of them cannot rent another flat or house, given they were renting privately before. Perhaps they were on a very advantageous rent.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    carnforth said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    It's the council's responsibility not the government

    The odd part is that the article doesn't explain why the three of them cannot rent another flat or house, given they were renting privately before. Perhaps they were on a very advantageous rent.
    With one of them disabled, and with a broken hip, that poses a number of constraints on what is even physically possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    DougSeal said:

    ‘No point climbing the greasy pole’: Tory ministers want out in reshuffle
    ...
    ... talk of a reshuffle next Friday growing, some [ministers] admit privately they have signalled a desire to move to the backbenches. Doing so allows them to start running down the clock on the up-to-two-year ban that can be imposed on taking up a private sector job after leaving Whitehall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/14/no-point-climbing-the-greasy-pole-tory-ministers-want-out-in-reshuffle

    What price Nadine Dorries next Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    No. Truss for CoE and then leader before next GE, which she will win. That’s behind the apparent confidence of the Tories. The market’s up - get in at 60 while you still can. Free money.
    Liz Truss led the Tories to their lowest poll rating in history, just 14% at one stage, she has more chance of winning Eurovision than being Tory leader again, let alone PM
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    TSE said: "I'm thinking about doing a cashless society thread for Sunday."

    Thanks for the warning. For some reason, I am reminded of this bit from one of my favorite authors:

    "Notoriously insensitive to suble shifts in mood, childen will persist in discussing the color of a recently sighted cement-mixer, long after one's own interest in the topic has waned."

    source$: https://www.amazon.com/Metropolitan-Life-Fran-Lebowitz/dp/0525155627

    (From her "Children: Pro or Con?")

    As the opinions on 'cashless' on PB range the spectrum from compulsory to forbidden it is sure to generate harmony and consensus. Could we stick to anodyne neutral topics like Brexit, the Waverley line and roads to Stonehenge?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023
    algarkirk said:

    TSE said: "I'm thinking about doing a cashless society thread for Sunday."

    Thanks for the warning. For some reason, I am reminded of this bit from one of my favorite authors:

    "Notoriously insensitive to suble shifts in mood, childen will persist in discussing the color of a recently sighted cement-mixer, long after one's own interest in the topic has waned."

    source$: https://www.amazon.com/Metropolitan-Life-Fran-Lebowitz/dp/0525155627

    (From her "Children: Pro or Con?")

    As the opinions on 'cashless' on PB range the spectrum from compulsory to forbidden it is sure to generate harmony and consensus. Could we stick to anodyne neutral topics like Brexit, the Waverley line and roads to Stonehenge?

    I'd be impressed if even TSE could find something new to say. But it might be about the new legislation.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    Someone upskirt Chris Chope and see if they can find his brain.

    This is exactly the kind of story that provokes fascist clickbait "info"graphics of the kind my moron aunt reposts. "Why do we give homes to asylum seekers when we don't look after our own veterans?" posts a front org for Britain First etc.

    We don't. Upskirt Chope notes the cash being spent on a barge. Because there's nowhere to house anyone. Perhaps the issue is the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of council/HA housing due to the exact policies he and his have spent decades championing?
    Surely the lack of affordable housing is not unconnected with the fact that the population of the UK has grown by around 20% in the last 30 years - a historically unprecedented increase in either real or absolute terms?
    Yes. A rise of 10 million, with some quite small areas (like London) disproportionately changed. (Rural Cumbria has hardly changed its population in that time). The combination of a massive increase and the complete failure to plan for it is one of the greatest post war political failures.
    If people keep moving to the country, then at some basic level, housing remains affordable.

    It may not be relatively cheap - but that is because tastes have changed since the days of draughty car-dependent houses in distant new towns, and developing on urban sites is more expensive.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    A Times report from Selby:

    “All I’ve ever wanted is to own my own home,” Waring says. She lives with her parents in Goole, a 25-minute drive from Selby. The 22-year-old graduated from York St John’s University with a degree in English literature and creative writing in 2022 and works as a lettings negotiator, earning about £18,000 a year.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-housing-will-dominate-the-selby-by-election-jzr8dzl3p

    £18,000 a year is less than minimum wage for a 35 hour week.

    Given we have full employment and rising wages that suggests a creative writing degree from a crap university has had a negative effect on her earning potential.

    And I suspect that few people at any time have been able to buy a house when earning so little.

    Amusingly the Times reports that 'Selby has had a Tory MP “for as long as anyone can remember”, says one local'

    Bad memories in Selby as it had a Labour MP between 1997 and 2010.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    HYUFD said:

    Lucy Fisher
    @LOS_Fisher
    ·
    Jul 9
    I’ve been to Uxbridge twice in the past fortnight to speak to voters in different parts of the seat.

    Most striking thing was how many people said variations of ‘it’s time for a change’.

    V good news for Labour if it’s a UK-wide trend…

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher

    'Of course in Uxbridge the expansion of Ulez is a wildcard factor…

    Tonnes of anger about it, with even those not directly affected concerned.

    Some affronted on the part of family/friends impacted, others furious bc they predict local businesses will pass on costs to customers'
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1678002084942082049?s=20
    Can you quantify the tonnes and convert to vote share please?
    I'm betting on Uxbridge and it would be good to know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited July 2023

    A Times report from Selby:

    “All I’ve ever wanted is to own my own home,” Waring says. She lives with her parents in Goole, a 25-minute drive from Selby. The 22-year-old graduated from York St John’s University with a degree in English literature and creative writing in 2022 and works as a lettings negotiator, earning about £18,000 a year.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-housing-will-dominate-the-selby-by-election-jzr8dzl3p

    £18,000 a year is less than minimum wage for a 35 hour week.

    Given we have full employment and rising wages that suggests a creative writing degree from a crap university has had a negative effect on her earning potential.

    And I suspect that few people at any time have been able to buy a house when earning so little.

    Amusingly the Times reports that 'Selby has had a Tory MP “for as long as anyone can remember”, says one local'

    Bad memories in Selby as it had a Labour MP between 1997 and 2010.

    22 yo, though, so min wage is 10.18 ph, which works out at 18.5K at 35hrs.

    And estate agents don't practise creative writing??

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    HYUFD said:

    I think if Labour wins a UK wide majority it will be gains from the SNP in Scotland that does it for them

    Probably, although managing it through English gains is at least back in the realm of possibility.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    ‘No point climbing the greasy pole’: Tory ministers want out in reshuffle
    ...
    ... talk of a reshuffle next Friday growing, some [ministers] admit privately they have signalled a desire to move to the backbenches. Doing so allows them to start running down the clock on the up-to-two-year ban that can be imposed on taking up a private sector job after leaving Whitehall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/14/no-point-climbing-the-greasy-pole-tory-ministers-want-out-in-reshuffle

    What price Nadine Dorries next Chancellor of the Exchequer?

    No. Truss for CoE and then leader before next GE, which she will win. That’s behind the apparent confidence of the Tories. The market’s up - get in at 60 while you still can. Free money.
    Liz Truss led the Tories to their lowest poll rating in history, just 14% at one stage, she has more chance of winning Eurovision than being Tory leader again, let alone PM
    Delusional.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    A Times report from Selby:

    “All I’ve ever wanted is to own my own home,” Waring says. She lives with her parents in Goole, a 25-minute drive from Selby. The 22-year-old graduated from York St John’s University with a degree in English literature and creative writing in 2022 and works as a lettings negotiator, earning about £18,000 a year.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-housing-will-dominate-the-selby-by-election-jzr8dzl3p

    £18,000 a year is less than minimum wage for a 35 hour week.

    Given we have full employment and rising wages that suggests a creative writing degree from a crap university has had a negative effect on her earning potential.

    And I suspect that few people at any time have been able to buy a house when earning so little.

    Amusingly the Times reports that 'Selby has had a Tory MP “for as long as anyone can remember”, says one local'

    Bad memories in Selby as it had a Labour MP between 1997 and 2010.

    Goole isn't in Selby, anyway. It's in Brigg and Goole.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    carnforth said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    It's the council's responsibility not the government

    The odd part is that the article doesn't explain why the three of them cannot rent another flat or house, given they were renting privately before. Perhaps they were on a very advantageous rent.
    Who decides how much money the council gets? Who sold all the council houses?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Medvedev taking an absolute beating. If Alcaraz plays like this Sunday he has a good chance
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    I think the YouGov poll of Tory MPs is completely meaningless, tbh.

    Their predictions are rubbish, but it's an interesting glimpse into how they perceive the world.
    Not even that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    carnforth said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/14/d-day-veteran-98-put-up-in-hostel-after-eviction-from-dorset-home

    I don't know what is a sadder reflection on this country, the fact that this 98 year old D Day veteran is treated so shabbily, or that his Tory MP's only response is to try to blame it on refugees. This government really is out of answers.

    It's the council's responsibility not the government

    The odd part is that the article doesn't explain why the three of them cannot rent another flat or house, given they were renting privately before. Perhaps they were on a very advantageous rent.
    Who decides how much money the council gets? Who sold all the council houses?
    And who wouldn't let the council use the money to build replacements?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    HYUFD said:

    Lucy Fisher
    @LOS_Fisher
    ·
    Jul 9
    I’ve been to Uxbridge twice in the past fortnight to speak to voters in different parts of the seat.

    Most striking thing was how many people said variations of ‘it’s time for a change’.

    V good news for Labour if it’s a UK-wide trend…

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher

    'Of course in Uxbridge the expansion of Ulez is a wildcard factor…

    Tonnes of anger about it, with even those not directly affected concerned.

    Some affronted on the part of family/friends impacted, others furious bc they predict local businesses will pass on costs to customers'
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1678002084942082049?s=20
    Tories 10/1 on Betfair.

    Presumably you have your house on it?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    Off topic, but I think many of you will find this cheering:

    George Will says that neither Trump nor DeSantis will get the Republican nomination:

    "Inevitably, there comes a rebellion against inevitability. Voters have been told that Donald Trump is the all-but-inevitable Republican nominee and that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, operating atop a mountain of cash, will inevitably be Trump’s only significant challenger.

    Voters, however, become contrary when told that the game’s outcome is known in the top of the first inning. Hence what G.K. Chesterton called the game of “Cheat the Prophet”: People listen politely to explanations of what is inevitable, then make something else happen."

    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/14/trump-desantis-not-inevitable/

    (There are examples that support his argument, but I must should add this cautionary note: For decades, I have thought that Will was better with words than numbers.)
This discussion has been closed.