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July 20th – the worst by-election day for the Tories ever? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    nico679 said:

    Robert Jendrick is a heartless cxxt .

    Just how fucking soulless can you be to order the painting over a mural for children.

    No. It’s far more complicated than that.

    Foxy painted that mural himself, as his contribution to smashing the evil trafficking gangs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    I think this straight down line is out of date now




    At least half of recent polls show Tory’s on up compared to recent from pollster




    Indeed the pollingreport seats has Tory’s on the rise again.




    Why does polling report still have 44 SNP?

    Rishi now getting more seats than Major 1997 and Hague 2001.

    So much for the Tories heading for their worst defeat of all time!
    Don't worry. The full dire extent will sink in after a few weeks of the tedious leadership of Keir Starmer. If the Tories do lose the next GE, they won't have lost to Harold Wilson, Tony Blair, or even Clement Atlee.

    They'll have lost to Keir Starmer. That will hurt.
    That's Sir Keir 'Hammer of the Tories, Vanquisher of the Corbynites' Starmer, thank you very much.

    Edit: I jest, because to me he's just 'ok', but maybe those people putting him forward as a potential leader weeks after being elected in 2015 were right all along!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    I know a fair few actually-diagnosed high functioning autistic people. Musk ticks all the boxes. Newton and Einstein were, it is thought, high functioning autistics

    I also wonder about Gerard Manley Hopkins. Tremendous intelligent and an incredible focused talent. Genius. Yet apparently hopelessly awkward in society and prone to saying weird things and making terrible faux pas
    Firstly, thank you for a politer answer than my sarky response deserved.

    Secondly, we are never going to agree on this. I am perfectly willing to believe in the existence of autism, but the medical paradigm should be limited to those who are significantly (life-changing) affected by it. Widening the definition to people who can cope well in normal life but just feel a bit off isn't a good idea:

    For the medical paradigm to be useful it must meet certain criteria (can you diagnose it, can you measure the difference between the sick and the well, is the phenomenon a problem, and so on). What you refer to as high-functioning autisistic spectrum disorder doesn't really meet these criteria on a least one basic criteria (does the patient want to be cured) and more fittingly should be categorised as within normal (Gaussian, not acceptable) human variation.

    I do however note your later (and previous) insistence that as you have a friend who feels better by identifying as an Aspie, then it is legitimate. God forbid I should ever disagree with the fads and fancies of the rich, but having an identity that makes you feel better is not the same as a disease and shouldn't be treated as such
    Autism is very much not a disease. It's intrinsic to one's very consciousness if present. Elon is quite clearly on the spectrum. That I felt was clear when I watched one of his presentations years back.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    If autism is not a lifestyle choice then the diagnosis should not be widened to include people who wish to adopt it just to feel validated. Which was the point I was making.
    How do you know that is what Musk is doing?
    Because a man capable of forming relationships, fathering children and parenting them, forming companies, suborning existing ones, employing people and carrying on thru the day and his life does not have a problem that is tractable in medical terms. I'd believe him if he said he was socially awkward and says strange things. My issue arises when that condition is defined as an illness, because illnesses don't work like that. I'm not saying he hasn't got "it", I'm saying that "it" is not an illness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    dixiedean said:

    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.

    And quite a few "Aspies" have reclaimed it, and use it for themselves, and you have no right to deny that
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    I know a fair few actually-diagnosed high functioning autistic people. Musk ticks all the boxes. Newton and Einstein were, it is thought, high functioning autistics

    I also wonder about Gerard Manley Hopkins. Tremendous intelligent and an incredible focused talent. Genius. Yet apparently hopelessly awkward in society and prone to saying weird things and making terrible faux pas
    Firstly, thank you for a politer answer than my sarky response deserved.

    Secondly, we are never going to agree on this. I am perfectly willing to believe in the existence of autism, but the medical paradigm should be limited to those who are significantly (life-changing) affected by it. Widening the definition to people who can cope well in normal life but just feel a bit off isn't a good idea:

    For the medical paradigm to be useful it must meet certain criteria (can you diagnose it, can you measure the difference between the sick and the well, is the phenomenon a problem, and so on). What you refer to as high-functioning autisistic spectrum disorder doesn't really meet these criteria on a least one basic criteria (does the patient want to be cured) and more fittingly should be categorised as within normal (Gaussian, not acceptable) human variation.

    I do however note your later (and previous) insistence that as you have a friend who feels better by identifying as an Aspie, then it is legitimate. God forbid I should ever disagree with the fads and fancies of the rich, but having an identity that makes you feel better is not the same as a disease and shouldn't be treated as such
    Autism is very much not a disease. It's intrinsic to one's very consciousness if present. Elon is quite clearly on the spectrum. That I felt was clear when I watched one of his presentations years back.
    Quite so. If you watch Musk's first 2 hour podcast with Rogan, it says I AM AUTISTIC from minute 1
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    If autism is not a lifestyle choice then the diagnosis should not be widened to include people who wish to adopt it just to feel validated. Which was the point I was making.
    How do you know that is what Musk is doing?
    Because a man capable of forming relationships, fathering children and parenting them, forming companies, suborning existing ones, employing people and carrying on thru the day and his life does not have a problem that is tractable in medical terms. I'd believe him if he said he was socially awkward and says strange things. My issue arises when that condition is defined as an illness, because illnesses don't work like that. I'm not saying he hasn't got "it", I'm saying that "it" is not an illness.
    I don't think illness is the only paradigm through which you can view medically diagnosable states.

    That's why it's called Autistic Spectrum Disorder and not Autistic Spectrum Disease.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.

    And quite a few "Aspies" have reclaimed it, and use it for themselves, and you have no right to deny that
    I can think of a great many things where that is the case, yet people argue about it all the time.

    As with any self label isn't the key thing about whether other people should be obliged to act in a certain way in reaction to a self labelling, beyond mere polite acceptance of that self label? Or, indeed, are people required to even accept someone else's label, particularly if it would cause confusion with something that is formally diagnosed?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.

    And quite a few "Aspies" have reclaimed it, and use it for themselves, and you have no right to deny that
    You have made this point before today, I believe: can you remember when?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.

    And quite a few "Aspies" have reclaimed it, and use it for themselves, and you have no right to deny that
    You have made this point before today, I believe: can you remember when?
    Are you drunk?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    More that Asperger's isn't a term really used in clinical terms; it was merged into ASD for diagnostic purposes a few years ago I think.

    Not everything has to be about culture wars y'know.
    Except that there are these people called "Aspies" who PREFER to identify as Asperger's as they believe the old category suits their character traits better. Musk is clearly an Aspie. Good luck to him

    If he so wishes to identify, who the fuck has the right to say NO? Honestly. Lefties. They drive me insane
    I wasn't saying no?
    Hmm. Fair enough. But others were

    How dare they say what Musk admits about himself is "profoundly unhelpful" simply because it doesn't fit some new diagnostic criteria which are:

    1. controversial, and

    2. rejected by many actually autistic people and

    3. likely to be changed again in time, as they always are?

    If someone came to you and said "I have cancer" but they used the wrong technical word for their tumour would you criticise them? How about starting off with "that's brave of you to admit, can't be easy"

    Jeez Louise
    Precisely the same a
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Fundamentally.
    Asperger's meant an intelligent* austistic person.
    That's why it was removed.

    *Intelligent having many definitions.

    And quite a few "Aspies" have reclaimed it, and use it for themselves, and you have no right to deny that
    I'm not denying anyone anything.
    I'm not a medical professional.
    Every single one of your arguments can be layered over yours on self ID of gender.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I went over 10,000 comments today and didn’t notice. I’ve been on here 4 1/2 years. @MoonRabbit has been on just over 18 months and done far more than me. I am an amateur.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    If autism is not a lifestyle choice then the diagnosis should not be widened to include people who wish to adopt it just to feel validated. Which was the point I was making.
    How do you know that is what Musk is doing?
    Because a man capable of forming relationships, fathering children and parenting them, forming companies, suborning existing ones, employing people and carrying on thru the day and his life does not have a problem that is tractable in medical terms. I'd believe him if he said he was socially awkward and says strange things. My issue arises when that condition is defined as an illness, because illnesses don't work like that. I'm not saying he hasn't got "it", I'm saying that "it" is not an illness.
    I don't think illness is the only paradigm through which you can view medically diagnosable states.

    That's why it's called Autistic Spectrum Disorder and not Autistic Spectrum Disease.
    OK: consider the above modified to say "disorder" instead of/as well as "disease"

    [Addendum: Fair point, but we are now arguing about the boundaries of "disorder". Specifically, should the medical paradigm be used for this thing? At what point does it stop being "person with a real problem" and start being "vague feeling of unease". Can it be objectively diagnosed? What's the error rate of such diagnoses? Is there a treatment and if so, does it work? Does the person want to be cured? What purpose does defining it as a disorder serve?]

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:



    You have made this point before today, I believe: can you remember when?

    Are you drunk?
    Me, no. I'm working and have just had a cheese toastie. You?

    (it was a real question, btw)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Gosh.
    Imagine how it will kick off when I reveal there hasn't been any ADD for about a decade.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    I must have read hundreds of thousands of the fucking things
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    DougSeal said:

    I went over 10,000 comments today and didn’t notice. I’ve been on here 4 1/2 years. @MoonRabbit has been on just over 18 months and done far more than me. I am an amateur.

    Thats nothing, Leon has 34k in 31 months.

    I'm in no position to judge.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    edited July 2023
    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?

    I ain't linking to it. I like my PB account.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    edited July 2023
    DougSeal said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    I must have read hundreds of thousands of the fucking things
    This one refers to a former chancellor. It's all the rage on Twitter at the moment

    (This link isn't the actual e-mail, you'll have to find it for yourself since TSE will lock me up with Max Verstappen and force feed me Pineapple Pizzas if I link to it)

    https://twitter.com/nmsonline/status/1677018147897917440
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    A disorder is a disruption to regular bodily structure and function. A syndrome is a collection of signs and symptoms associated with a specific health-related cause. A condition is an abnormal state of health that interferes with normal or regular feelings of wellbeing
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    The full email is available, but I'm not linking to it. Twitter knows all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Completely random, but I do love this giant sphereical display in Vegas.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-66114544
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
    PM'd. Enjoy.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    DougSeal said:

    I went over 10,000 comments today and didn’t notice. I’ve been on here 4 1/2 years. @MoonRabbit has been on just over 18 months and done far more than me. I am an amateur.

    If you’ve got something to say. Say it.

    Here’s tonight’s paper round up

    Good news.


    Completed expected news.


    Are you sure? News.


    Never trust a Greek bearing gifts, News.


    Why didn’t more papers cover this? News.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    If autism is not a lifestyle choice then the diagnosis should not be widened to include people who wish to adopt it just to feel validated. Which was the point I was making.
    How do you know that is what Musk is doing?
    Because a man capable of forming relationships, fathering children and parenting them, forming companies, suborning existing ones, employing people and carrying on thru the day and his life does not have a problem that is tractable in medical terms. I'd believe him if he said he was socially awkward and says strange things. My issue arises when that condition is defined as an illness, because illnesses don't work like that. I'm not saying he hasn't got "it", I'm saying that "it" is not an illness.
    I don't think illness is the only paradigm through which you can view medically diagnosable states.

    That's why it's called Autistic Spectrum Disorder and not Autistic Spectrum Disease.
    OK: consider the above modified to say "disorder" instead of/as well as "disease"

    [Addendum: Fair point, but we are now arguing about the boundaries of "disorder". Specifically, should the medical paradigm be used for this thing? At what point does it stop being "person with a real problem" and start being "vague feeling of unease". Can it be objectively diagnosed? What's the error rate of such diagnoses? Is there a treatment and if so, does it work? Does the person want to be cured? What purpose does defining it as a disorder serve?]

    All classifications have fuzzy boundaries, so you can look at any classification or diagnosis of a disorder or a disease and find people at the boundary where you might dispute if they really have a real problem. Many people applied your exact arguments over ASD to Covid-19.

    That doesn't mean it isn't a real thing that is useful to be able to diagnose.

    I have a diagnosis for ASD. It's useful for me, and for the medical professionals who help me with my mental health, to have that diagnosis as a core foundation on which to build an understanding of my psychology and to design coping strategies and anticipate difficult situations.

    I've been married twice, have one child, have held down reasonably well-paid jobs, and sometimes react to stressful arguments by doing things like pouring a glass of water over my head.

    I'm really not sure what your problem is with ASD as a diagnosis, but I find it quite hostile and unpleasant.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
    PM'd. Enjoy.
    Most kind, thank you. I've read it and, well, that's a bit of a bombshell and no mistake... :(
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Quick thinking government minister saves children from freaky mural trauma, news.




    And that concludes the papers. No bad news.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
    PM'd. Enjoy.
    Most kind, thank you. I've read it and, well, that's a bit of a bombshell and no mistake... :(
    If it's not true, it's extremely well done.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417

    I'm really not sure what your problem is with ASD as a diagnosis, but I find it quite hostile and unpleasant.

    It's not intended as such I assure you. My stance is as explained: by stretching the definition it falls outside the boundaries of medicine. It's not meant to insult you nor belittle you. It is meant to question the usefulness of the medical paradigm and consider whether we need another definition to cover cases like this.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023
    Just caught up with the cricket score. Typical Headingley day. Relatively low scoring match with lots of wickets, although one or two batsmen have done well. Interesting how the stereotypes about particular grounds often seem to be true.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
    PM'd. Enjoy.
    Most kind, thank you. I've read it and, well, that's a bit of a bombshell and no mistake... :(
    If it's not true, it's extremely well done.
    If it's wholly the work of someone who's professionally disinterested, it's especially well done. Perhaps unbelievably so. But I wonder what the threat of "Just got to choose who’s next" is about.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Can someone enlighten me re the email
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    Peck said:

    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    So, anyone on here read The E-Mail?

    Hah. I think TSE might ban us if we mention it.

    Either the ramblings of a deranged schizophrenic, or the juciest gossip ever. Who knows?
    Push the envelope: what email? PM me if you don't want to say out loud.
    PM'd. Enjoy.
    Most kind, thank you. I've read it and, well, that's a bit of a bombshell and no mistake... :(
    If it's not true, it's extremely well done.
    If it's wholly the work of someone who's professionally disinterested, it's especially well done. Perhaps unbelievably so. But I wonder what the threat of "Just got to choose who’s next" is about.
    Better than most average Russian trolls, certainly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    PM me you bastards
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    rcs1000 said:

    PM me you bastards

    Just google George Osborne email. ;)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    rcs1000 said:

    Can someone enlighten me re the email

    You might find it if you GO through the names of former chancellors.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    Pm'd
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    rcs1000 said:

    PM me you bastards

    If all hearts were open and all desires known — as they would be if people showed their souls — how many gapings, sighings, clenched fists, knotted brows, broad grins, and red eyes should we see in the market-place!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    edited July 2023
    On second reading, I think it's fabricated or at least elaborated. The green room paragraph is a bit of a tell.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    DougSeal said:

    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.

    Certainly not something to revoke his CH over.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    rcs1000 said:

    Can someone enlighten me re the email

    It’s just a standard thing, you know know, where people are passionate in their work, and try not to take it home with them, as that wouldn’t go down very well at all. In some jobs though, such as publishing, you have to shout “it’s a stop” otherwise what happens if you don’t?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited July 2023
    carnforth said:

    On second reading, I think it's fabricated or at least elaborated. The green room paragraph is a bit of a tell.

    I think it would have been better displayed using cut out bits of newspaper.

    It is a little worrying though that someone can produce this and by the end of tomorrow everyone will have read it.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    carnforth said:

    On second reading, I think it's fabricated or at least elaborated. The green room paragraph is a bit of a tell.

    True in all details seems unlikely. If (Spartan) it's not professional work, the author may not be being 100% true to themselves about their motivation which is not a recipe for clear perception and analysis. Then again, 90% wouldn't be bad.

    Skeletons dancing in closets is an unusual turn of phrase.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    What's the story with the (BOY) George Osborne email that's been trending on Twitter? @TheScreamingEagles
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    GIN1138 said:

    What's the story with the (BOY) George Osborne email that's been trending on Twitter? @TheScreamingEagles

    George Osborne is a good Muslim boy.

    I have PM'd you the full email, if you haven't seen it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    edited July 2023
    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.

    Certainly not something to revoke his CH over.
    My daughter is ringing the bells for a wedding tomorrow. I don't know who the couple are, but, given what we know about human relationships in general, the chances aren't that low that the email could have been written about that couple, or any one of the large number of other couples marrying this weekend.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    DougSeal said:

    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.

    There is a bunch of corroborating evidence, so I am pretty sure some of it is true (and it chimes with gossip I have heard) BUT the whole thing reads too much like a vengeful, rather hysterical takedown, by some slighted person (an ex?) so I suspect there are enormous amounts of exaggeration, as well, if not outright lies
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    The email writer would have been better adopting a less catty, bitchy, hateful style of prose
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,866
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.

    There is a bunch of corroborating evidence, so I am pretty sure some of it is true (and it chimes with gossip I have heard) BUT the whole thing reads too much like a vengeful, rather hysterical takedown, by some slighted person (an ex?) so I suspect there are enormous amounts of exaggeration, as well, if not outright lies
    My guess is that the stuff involving ladies over 25 is true, and the stuff involving ladies under 25 is made up.

    The stuff about his boring the pants off a whole dinner party in Italy by whinging about Brexit rings true though.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Leon said:

    The email writer would have been better adopting a less catty, bitchy, hateful style of prose

    On the other hand, the Daily Mail would love to hire them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    The E-Mail. TLDR. That’s my only comment.

    There is a bunch of corroborating evidence, so I am pretty sure some of it is true (and it chimes with gossip I have heard) BUT the whole thing reads too much like a vengeful, rather hysterical takedown, by some slighted person (an ex?) so I suspect there are enormous amounts of exaggeration, as well, if not outright lies
    My guess is that the stuff involving ladies over 25 is true, and the stuff involving ladies under 25 is made up.

    The stuff about his boring the pants off a whole dinner party in Italy by whinging about Brexit rings true though.
    Yes that’s pretty much my take
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    The email writer would have been better adopting a less catty, bitchy, hateful style of prose

    I like it when people let rip as themselves. "To touch serenity with a finger wet with tears."
    But what if it's put on in this case, though, and the author is professionally disinterested? Pretty skilled piece of work if so.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Peck said:

    carnforth said:

    On second reading, I think it's fabricated or at least elaborated. The green room paragraph is a bit of a tell.

    True in all details seems unlikely. If (Spartan) it's not professional work, the author may not be being 100% true to themselves about their motivation which is not a recipe for clear perception and analysis. Then again, 90% wouldn't be bad.

    Skeletons dancing in closets is an unusual turn of phrase.
    Indeed. Lady Whistledown would be proud of it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023
    O/T

    Important witness at the Post Office Inquiry Gareth Jenkins was supposed to be giving evidence yesterday. He didn't do so because at the last moment the Post Office disclosed a further 4,767 potentially relevant documents which made it impossible to fairly hear his evidence. Head of the inquiry Sir Wyn Williams was not happy with this turn of events.

    Video here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VqwuOCm5I
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    @rcs1000, @RobD, @GIN1138, @TSE, @carnforth, @MoonRabbit, @Peck
    I've added you to a convo of you want to discuss THE EMAIL in private. Anybody else wanna play, just say.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Important witness at the Post Office Inquiry Gareth Jenkins was supposed to be giving evidence yesterday. He didn't do so because at the last moment the Post Office disclosed a further 4,767 potentially relevant documents which made it impossible to fairly hear his evidence.

    Video here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VqwuOCm5I

    Isn't that tactic disallowed, or at least frowned on? Or am I just remembering legal dramas?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, @RobD, @GIN1138, @TSE, @carnforth, @MoonRabbit, @Peck
    I've added you to a convo of you want to discuss THE EMAIL in private. Anybody else wanna play, just say.

    The entire thing is all over Twitter (not threads). I don’t think you are guarding a dragon’s lair of secret gossip. Sorry
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have not read any of the recent threads as they seemed to be exclusively about cricket, that unendurable borefest.

    Anyway some reading for you all -

    1. The decision to dismiss the government's challenge to the Covid Inquiry - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Cab-Off-v-Covid-Enquiry-6.7.23-approved-judgment-002.pdf.
    2. The Mermaids/LGBA decision - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Mermaids-v-Charity-Commission-judgment-060723.pdf
    3. The ACE/Fahmy judgment - https://didlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Fahmy-judgment-2.pdf
    4. The CGD/Forstater damages award - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z1zzc_88xaGp5VxXot6m6t_7JxT7wuQY/view?ref=forstater.com&pli=1.

    Much to ponder in all of them.

    Cricket's not half as tedious as you complaining about people talking about it.
    Was that a complaint, or just a comment on what they think of cricket?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited July 2023
    carnforth said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's the story with the (BOY) George Osborne email that's been trending on Twitter? @TheScreamingEagles

    George Osborne is a good Muslim boy.

    I have PM'd you the full email, if you haven't seen it.
    Thanks. I've read it now... 👍

    Not sure what to make of it... BUT... here's what I think (and remember I'm no fan of George Osborne - OGH once banned for 12hrs me for calling him a "creep" - The first and only time I was banned here in 17 years)

    ....

    If George is indeed a cheating son-of-a-bitch, the poster (whoever he/she/they/them) is should have messaged "Thea" privately with their "evidence" rather than sharing it all over the internet.

    It very much reads like a bitter, desperate and vengeful Corbynista (or one of George's original ex's) trying to ruin Thea's happy day (always remember the wedding day is the BRIDES day - which is a pretty scummy thing to do, whatever your politics, IMO)

    Remember, everyone.... An eye for and eye... AND THE WHOLE WORLD GOES BLIND...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, @RobD, @GIN1138, @TSE, @carnforth, @MoonRabbit, @Peck
    I've added you to a convo of you want to discuss THE EMAIL in private. Anybody else wanna play, just say.

    The entire thing is all over Twitter (not threads). I don’t think you are guarding a dragon’s lair of secret gossip. Sorry
    I was enabling a freer and more forthright discussion without exposing OGH to legal problems. Resorting to euphemism. circumlocution or innuendo is for children.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited July 2023
    I won't post here again before August, so I wish George and Thea all the best and hope their lives are full of love, joy and happiness...

    BUT,,,

    Thea...

    If it turns out George is ultimately a lying, cheating, sniveling son-of-a-bitch who ***** you liked he ****** the British people from 2010 to 2015... make sure you take the b*stard for every penny you can! 😂

    Otherwise, have a happy life! 🙏
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    Correction: I said Dr. Wen's blood oxygen was down to 80 percent. She said it was in the 80's. (Still very worrying, as I understand it.)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited July 2023
    The email is tawdry. George should sue.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    See you all in September 🎸
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have not read any of the recent threads as they seemed to be exclusively about cricket, that unendurable borefest.

    Anyway some reading for you all -

    1. The decision to dismiss the government's challenge to the Covid Inquiry - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Cab-Off-v-Covid-Enquiry-6.7.23-approved-judgment-002.pdf.
    2. The Mermaids/LGBA decision - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Mermaids-v-Charity-Commission-judgment-060723.pdf
    3. The ACE/Fahmy judgment - https://didlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Fahmy-judgment-2.pdf
    4. The CGD/Forstater damages award - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z1zzc_88xaGp5VxXot6m6t_7JxT7wuQY/view?ref=forstater.com&pli=1.

    Much to ponder in all of them.

    Cricket's not half as tedious as you complaining about people talking about it.
    Er, it's the most boring sport ever invented!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, @RobD, @GIN1138, @TSE, @carnforth, @MoonRabbit, @Peck
    I've added you to a convo of you want to discuss THE EMAIL in private. Anybody else wanna play, just say.

    @viewcode Add me! Add me!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    The email is tawdry. George should sue.

    Removed my like, though i agree with first part of your statement, disagree with second.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,417

    viewcode said:

    @rcs1000, @RobD, @GIN1138, @TSE, @carnforth, @MoonRabbit, @Peck
    I've added you to a convo of you want to discuss THE EMAIL in private. Anybody else wanna play, just say.

    @viewcode Add me! Add me!
    Done
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    The Tories will lose all of them, and clearly.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    rcs1000 said:

    PM me you bastards

    All very unpleasant stuff, but I’ve no idea about it’s veracity.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    edited July 2023

    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.

    Yes, you’d just press the delete button if someone sent you this.

    Now, I have read some extremely funny hate mail from jilted ex’s, during my professional career, in which the miscreant partner’s shortcomings are laid bare pitilessly, but this isn’t one such.


  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.

    That’s a great summary. I came across it on Twitter. It’s hardly earth shattering stuff. Or certainly the bit I read wasn’t.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    GIN1138 said:

    carnforth said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What's the story with the (BOY) George Osborne email that's been trending on Twitter? @TheScreamingEagles

    George Osborne is a good Muslim boy.

    I have PM'd you the full email, if you haven't seen it.
    Thanks. I've read it now... 👍

    Not sure what to make of it... BUT... here's what I think (and remember I'm no fan of George Osborne - OGH once banned for 12hrs me for calling him a "creep" - The first and only time I was banned here in 17 years)

    ....

    If George is indeed a cheating son-of-a-bitch, the poster (whoever he/she/they/them) is should have messaged "Thea" privately with their "evidence" rather than sharing it all over the internet.

    It very much reads like a bitter, desperate and vengeful Corbynista (or one of George's original ex's) trying to ruin Thea's happy day (always remember the wedding day is the BRIDES day - which is a pretty scummy thing to do, whatever your politics, IMO)

    Remember, everyone.... An eye for and eye... AND THE WHOLE WORLD GOES BLIND...

    Are you sure that’s what the ban was for and not for a subtle reference to Radiohead’s seminal track which just happens to have the same name.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    DougSeal said:

    I went over 10,000 comments today and didn’t notice. I’ve been on here 4 1/2 years. @MoonRabbit has been on just over 18 months and done far more than me. I am an amateur.

    She’s also half your age and (probably) has done far more than you…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    DougSeal said:

    I went over 10,000 comments today and didn’t notice. I’ve been on here 4 1/2 years. @MoonRabbit has been on just over 18 months and done far more than me. I am an amateur.

    She’s also half your age and (probably) has done far more than you…
    She wasn't the first to recognise ex the remarkable comeback potential of Truss.

    Let's draw a veil over who has done whom, shall we ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Now that is interesting. The delay in Trump's trials is not popular with Republican voters.

    A New Poll on the Trump Indictments Has a Surprising Result
    A new POLITICO Magazine/Ipsos poll finds one thing that unites people on the Trump indictments.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/06/trump-trial-poll-ipsos-00104772
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.

    Perhaps - but if you're using Twitter efficiently, you wouldn't have seen it, unless you glanced at 'trending'.
    Didn't appear on my feed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Cost of Euston HS2 terminus could race past £4.8bn estimate, MPs say
    Overspend blamed on government indecision
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/07/cost-of-euston-hs2-terminus-could-race-past-4-point-8bn-estimate-mps-say
    ...In a highly critical report, MPs on the committee said the Department for Transport (DfT) was yet to “establish the design and expectations for the station” against what it was “willing to spend”, despite spending more than eight years planning and designing the London terminus...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Biden didn’t authorise secret US-Russia talks over Ukraine war, White House says
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/07/russia-us-talks-ukraine-war-biden
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    What was Osborne's alleged safe word, Louise wasn't it?
    Don't know if it'll do much good but maybe worth a try..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
    People often like to validate themselves with a medicalised diagnosis. Sometimes it is helpful in accessing support, sometimes it is an obstacle and people say "I can't do that because I am X diagnosis" or just a licence to behave in an unusual manner

    A label like this can be quite restricting, and not all personality traits need to be medicalised. We should treat people as they are, whether they carry a medical label or not.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    On topic, this would help:

    Labour gain from SNP in East Kilbride West on a swing of 14%. SNP in 3rd place BEHIND THE TORIES on first preferences


    https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1677095791133958150?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Have to say that SKS was presumably grateful for the interruption of his speech by protesters yesterday as it broke the tedium and made it vaguely newsworthy.
    He didn’t have that advantage on R4 in the morning and boy that was grim. Platitudes and generalities piled high with not a detail in sight. He’s going to be poor in the election campaign, possibly even worse than Sunak if you can imagine such a thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Important witness at the Post Office Inquiry Gareth Jenkins was supposed to be giving evidence yesterday. He didn't do so because at the last moment the Post Office disclosed a further 4,767 potentially relevant documents which made it impossible to fairly hear his evidence.

    Video here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VqwuOCm5I

    Isn't that tactic disallowed, or at least frowned on? Or am I just remembering legal dramas?
    I would think that some quite important people involved are getting desperate. Despite a number of attempts at Lessons Will Be Learned* and It Has Been An Awful Experience For Everyone** some impertinent people are still wanting actual people to pay an actual legal price for what happened.

    *No lessons will be learned. Now shut up , headcount, and let me carry on as if nothing happened
    **I was a victim too. The biggest victim. Now shut up, headcount, and let me carry on as if nothing happened. Copyright Alistair Campbell
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
    People often like to validate themselves with a medicalised diagnosis. Sometimes it is helpful in accessing support, sometimes it is an obstacle and people say "I can't do that because I am X diagnosis" or just a licence to behave in an unusual manner

    A label like this can be quite restricting, and not all personality traits need to be medicalised. We should treat people as they are, whether they carry a medical label or not.
    Yes, but more. Labels help because they reify a set of traits, making it easier to connect with other people with a similar experience and to look up information. (I say that as someone with a physical health spectrum disorder.)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    edited July 2023

    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.

    Agreed. I can't be bothered working out whether it's genuine or not.

    OTOH Robert Jenrick is genuinely and quite luridly evil when he has the children's Disney art painted over in the refugee centres because it might make the place too "welcoming". He's Cruella De Vil. Probably kills puppy dogs for fun.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
    People often like to validate themselves with a medicalised diagnosis. Sometimes it is helpful in accessing support, sometimes it is an obstacle and people say "I can't do that because I am X diagnosis" or just a licence to behave in an unusual manner

    A label like this can be quite restricting, and not all personality traits need to be medicalised. We should treat people as they are, whether they carry a medical label or not.
    I'm far from being an expert on autism and Asperger's, but many people I know in tech are probably in some ways on the spectrum. Mrs J probably is, as she readily acknowledges.

    Perhaps people go into tech because the sort of laser-focus the job requires suits certain autism traits?

    But what annoys me is people using such diagnoses (esp. self diagnosis) as an excuse for sh*tty behaviour. Something that makes other people think such sh*tty behaviour is typical of people with that diagnosis, when it is not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    On topic, this would help:

    Labour gain from SNP in East Kilbride West on a swing of 14%. SNP in 3rd place BEHIND THE TORIES on first preferences


    https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1677095791133958150?s=20

    I've noticed that tweets are back again without having signed on to twitter (or even being a member in my case). Presumably the protests reached even Musk, particularly with the advent of a potential competitor in nuclear war and the end of the world as we know it or Threads for short.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    FF43 said:

    Am amazed RCS has to ask a pack of PBers re the stupid email.

    Seeing as how it took me all of 10 seconds worth of googling before I was reading it.

    Or about half of it, gave up as it was way less than edifying, enlightening, entertaining or exciting (plus bunch of other e-words) than graffiti at a bus station toilet.

    Agreed. I can't be bothered working out whether it's genuine or not.

    OTOH Robert Jenrick is genuinely and quite luridly evil when he has the children's Disney art painted over in the refugee centres because it might make the place too "welcoming". He's Cruella De Vil. Probably kills puppy dogs for fun.
    We already have Cruella in the cabinet. Maybe the Grinch? I do think that this competition to be the most obnoxious member of the cabinet is getting slightly out of hand. It is not entirely clear to me that it was even a good way of winning votes in the first place, to be honest.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
    People often like to validate themselves with a medicalised diagnosis. Sometimes it is helpful in accessing support, sometimes it is an obstacle and people say "I can't do that because I am X diagnosis" or just a licence to behave in an unusual manner

    A label like this can be quite restricting, and not all personality traits need to be medicalised. We should treat people as they are, whether they carry a medical label or not.
    Yes, but more. Labels help because they reify a set of traits, making it easier to connect with other people with a similar experience and to look up information. (I say that as someone with a physical health spectrum disorder.)
    Sure, labelling can be useful, but it can also be restricting. People sometimes use it as an excuse to avoid an activity, rather than a spur to work harder than most at an activity.

    Some people find reading and writing difficult, some people find social interaction difficult, some people find unpredictability difficult, some people find noise difficult. Labelling these personality traits can help people mitigate the traits, but it can also cause people to retreat from their potential.

    In any case, a lot of people do search for these medical labels. No one is allowed to simply be "eccentric" any more.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    edited July 2023
    DavidL said:

    Have to say that SKS was presumably grateful for the interruption of his speech by protesters yesterday as it broke the tedium and made it vaguely newsworthy.
    He didn’t have that advantage on R4 in the morning and boy that was grim. Platitudes and generalities piled high with not a detail in sight. He’s going to be poor in the election campaign, possibly even worse than Sunak if you can imagine such a thing.

    Though when he broke from the script to engage with the protestors he came over well. That bodes well for the unpredictability of a campaign.

    I am no Starmer fan, and he is still rather an enigma to me. What does he actually want to do as PM? He seems to be both over-prepared and over timid.

    On the other hand, he is wise not to interrupt a government bent on self destruction.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing how many people had no problem admitting that Elon Musk is seriously smart - until he revealed that he is quite right wing. At which point he miraculously morphed into a stuttering moron who just keeps getting lucky

    Musk strikes me as one of those super smart people who is also a bit dumb in certain respects, certainly in his dealings with people. Spending time in academia and then finance I have come across many people who fall into this category, Musk just seems one of the more extreme examples.
    He’s likes to think he's autistic and he’s confessed this. That’s the issue
    FTFY
    Do one, actually. Autism is hard enough to deal with without creepy insinuations that it's a lifestyle choice. And is there anything more pathetic than that ftfy thing?
    Absolutely right. It’s not fun and it’s something people admit easily and Musk has - as I correctly surmised - publicly discussed his autism. I salute him for that alone


    Asperger's isn't even a term used these days.
    So that's profoundly unhelpful.
    Fuck me. So in leftieland he's not allowed to self identfy as Asperger's? tho it's OK for people with cocks to self identify as "women"?
    No. Nowt to do with politics. It's been removed as of 2013 from DSM-5, as no satisfactory distinction from other forms of autism could be made.
    Hence the term ASD which it was merged with in 2021 under ICD-11. Autistic
    Spectrum Disorder.
    So. From 2013 you couldn't be diagnosed with Asperger's. You can self identify as whatever you like as ever.
    But it ain't very helpful.
    It's his fucking choice. Dipshit

    And there is massive controvery in autist-land over the removal of these terms: Asperger's, high functioning, etc
    Don't call me a dipshit. I don't identify as such.
    Glad to see you defend someone's choice to self identify in the teeth of medical opinion.
    Imho. As a professional working in the area, ADHD is under diagnosed. And ASD over. Like anxiety and depression a few years back. Similarly, the two are often
    overlapping and can be confused.
    Fair enough. But this issue makes me personally angry

    Probably because a very close relative of mine has recently been officially diagnosed as ASD and this person was told "we would once have diagnosed you as Aspie, and high functioning, but this is no longer officially allowed even though we think it useful", then this person went away and read up on all of it and decided "fuck yeah, I'm Aspie": - ie: high functioning, socially awkward, doesn't need much or any help with daily living, but has real and grave problems in certain situations, highly intelligent etc

    This person, close to me, has self identified as Aspie and it brings this person a lot of consolation - and also practical assistance: because this person now reaches out to other self-identified "Aspies" and finds common ground, AND a social network. And Elon Musk is therefore a bit of an inspiration. The richest-ish man in the world says he's Aspie. Yay

    Good luck to them all
    Self-diagnosed Aspergers has been fashionable amongst a certain type of tech nerd since the internet decided decades ago Bill Gates had it (also the "richest-ish man in the world"). Self-diagnosed ADHD was also popular in the United States after the amphetamines used to treat it became known as "smart drugs".
    People often like to validate themselves with a medicalised diagnosis. Sometimes it is helpful in accessing support, sometimes it is an obstacle and people say "I can't do that because I am X diagnosis" or just a licence to behave in an unusual manner

    A label like this can be quite restricting, and not all personality traits need to be medicalised. We should treat people as they are, whether they carry a medical label or not.
    Yes, but more. Labels help because they reify a set of traits, making it easier to connect with other people with a similar experience and to look up information. (I say that as someone with a physical health spectrum disorder.)
    Sure, labelling can be useful, but it can also be restricting. People sometimes use it as an excuse to avoid an activity, rather than a spur to work harder than most at an activity.

    Some people find reading and writing difficult, some people find social interaction difficult, some people find unpredictability difficult, some people find noise difficult. Labelling these personality traits can help people mitigate the traits, but it can also cause people to retreat from their potential.

    In any case, a lot of people do search for these medical labels. No one is allowed to simply be "eccentric" any more.
    I entirely agree that diagnoses can lead to one using it as an excuse to not do something (I do that with my physical health condition), or as an excuse for shitty behaviour. However, that sense of not being alone in one’s experience is very powerful, and to not be alone, one needs a label for one’s experience to find others.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Have to say that SKS was presumably grateful for the interruption of his speech by protesters yesterday as it broke the tedium and made it vaguely newsworthy.
    He didn’t have that advantage on R4 in the morning and boy that was grim. Platitudes and generalities piled high with not a detail in sight. He’s going to be poor in the election campaign, possibly even worse than Sunak if you can imagine such a thing.

    Though when he broke from the script to engage with the protestors he came over well. That bodes well for the unpredictability of a campaign.

    I am no Starmer fan, and he is still rather an enigma to me. What does he actually want to do as PM? He seems to be both over-prepared and over timid.

    On the other hand, he is wise not to interrupt a government bent on self destruction.
    It was telling that yesterday was apparently the 5th of his priorities. The first 4 have rather passed me by. I would agree that he seemed much more relatable when dealing with the protestors than when giving his speech but that is a very low bar.

    Your last point is of course the key. He is going to win because his opponents seem determined to lose.
This discussion has been closed.