Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Time is running out for Rishi to turn this round – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Farooq said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    The gorilla is to show they're alphas. The lack of socks is a signal that they are hard men, ready to kick off their shows and give each other a foot job karate lessons at a moment's notice.

    Socks are for the soft. Gorillas don't wear socks.
    I like the way it looks as though the gorilla is listening intently
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now hence the way back machine link).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Farooq, Roman legions in Britain wore socks and sandals.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    On the French riots, by coincidence I was reading this week about the weaver riots in Lyon in 1830s.

    The Canut revolts.

    Pretty bloody.

    Plus ca change and all that.

    In the new and excellent Christopher Clark book on 1848 revolution.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
    Maybe it's Posen him a dilemma.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    It will surprise nobody that I think Sunak has run out of road. I see no harm in chucking him out now and giving the new leader a brief spell in power before what seems like inevitable opposition. The new leader would have to have a wide coalition, possibly even including Hunt (though not at the Treasury), and bring back some capable backbenchers. The aim would be to implement what economy-friendly policies could be managed in the short time available. The question is 'who'. The answer is probably Penny Mordaunt.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    On the French riots, by coincidence I was reading this week about the weaver riots in Lyon in 1830s.

    The Canut revolts.

    Pretty bloody.

    Plus ca change and all that.

    In the new and excellent Christopher Clark book on 1848 revolution.

    I imagine quite a few French shopkeepers think that today's would be revolutionaries might be described as Canuts
  • Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    No Tory poll leads since 6th December 2021.

    BJO fans please explain!

    Would we be surprised if it was 2031 and that stat still held true?
    Tories didn’t lead in a poll between the end of 1992 and September 2000.

    So it is possible.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    It will surprise nobody that I think Sunak has run out of road. I see no harm in chucking him out now and giving the new leader a brief spell in power before what seems like inevitable opposition. The new leader would have to have a wide coalition, possibly even including Hunt (though not at the Treasury), and bring back some capable backbenchers. The aim would be to implement what economy-friendly policies could be managed in the short time available. The question is 'who'. The answer is probably Penny Mordaunt.

    I don't think any of the serious contenders will want to be in post as leader to lose the election. Sunak will remain where he is. If Mordaunt is elected after the election she is probably one of the few Tories with the ability to deny Starmer a second term, depending on how large a majority he gains at the next GE
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    Is a push up a press up?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?


  • In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    I agree with all that, but our lad Leon is moaning about his extra timber whilst quaffing booze and eating like a king in expensive restaurants. He'd rather spend a fortune on diet pills than cut back his lifestyle choices. He's overweight because he wants to be, most folk don't get that option, they eat what they can afford or have time to prepare and for far too many people in the UK, that means ultra processed crap.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023

    No Tory poll leads since 6th December 2021.

    BJO fans please explain!

    Would we be surprised if it was 2031 and that stat still held true?
    Tories didn’t lead in a poll between the end of 1992 and September 2000.

    So it is possible.
    I don't really see the economic situation getting better in the foreseeable future (certainly not the sort of boom we saw in the late 90s), but we will see the obvious (insert previous party) f##ked all this up line and that is normally good enough for at least a few years.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    So you can loosen the shoes to get them on.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
    Maybe it's Posen him a dilemma.
    Hopefully he may pause before Prussian into anything
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    It will surprise nobody that I think Sunak has run out of road. I see no harm in chucking him out now and giving the new leader a brief spell in power before what seems like inevitable opposition. The new leader would have to have a wide coalition, possibly even including Hunt (though not at the Treasury), and bring back some capable backbenchers. The aim would be to implement what economy-friendly policies could be managed in the short time available. The question is 'who'. The answer is probably Penny Mordaunt.

    I don't think any of the serious contenders will want to be in post as leader to lose the election. Sunak will remain where he is. If Mordaunt is elected after the election she is probably one of the few Tories with the ability to deny Starmer a second term, depending on how large a majority he gains at the next GE
    At this late stage, I don't think a defeat, even a heavy defeat, would count against the new leader.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    I lose weight when I am asleep, as I am not eating, but burning calories.

    Therefore, having a lie in is an excellent weight loss strategy.

    When I stopped eating meat (with the occasional cheat) I put on weight as I compensated by eating loads more cheese. Reintroducing oily fish reduced the cheese intake and did the trick.

    Keeping the intake of chocolate, biscuits and cake at a moderate level is more of a challenge for me.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    I think the 2000 y.o. shoes they find in peat bogs tend to have laces. They are also not L/R specific, so presumably come off if not tied on. It's a hangover from that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    I agree with all that, but our lad Leon is moaning about his extra timber whilst quaffing booze and eating like a king in expensive restaurants. He'd rather spend a fortune on diet pills than cut back his lifestyle choices. He's overweight because he wants to be, most folk don't get that option, they eat what they can afford or have time to prepare and for far too many people in the UK, that means ultra processed crap.
    I get the impression Leon isn't moaning due to his weight: he's moaning to draw attention to the fact he can quaff *excellent* booze and eat like a *king* in *expensive* restaurants, and is *edgy* enough to take some potentially-dubious and *expensive* dieting pills.

    It's performance-art moaning.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
    Maybe it's Posen him a dilemma.
    Hopefully he may pause before Prussian into anything
    He's never Lett that stop him before.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    BMI is a good but imperfect measure of health risks rather than a poor measure.
    Fitness and health are linked but also separate.

    I'd say your walking and jogging criteria are very generous, the stairs is probably about right and the push ups very strict, but they only measure limited aspects of fitness still.

    I have good stamina, average strength and poor flexibility. Passing single tests like those above, don't test enough variety to see if someone is fit or not imo.

    In terms of mental health and fitness, we should incorportate fitness and diet into our daily lives and structures from starting school, then it would be far less of a challenge as we get older.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    So you can loosen the shoes to get them on.
    People manage to get into slip on shoes quicker than they can lace up shoes, so struggling to see any advantage here.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    Because bending down to retie a shoelace is a good way to determine whether you are being followed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
    Maybe it's Posen him a dilemma.
    Hopefully he may pause before Prussian into anything
    He's never Lett that stop him before.
    He has so little of his original army left that he only has one professional soldier left. Therefore he will have to ensure his only Pro-goes-in first.

    (beat that one Mr Pun champ)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    Farooq said:



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    BMI is a good but imperfect measure of health risks rather than a poor measure.
    Fitness and health are linked but also separate.

    I'd say your walking and jogging criteria are very generous, the stairs is probably about right and the push ups very strict, but they only measure limited aspects of fitness still.

    I have good stamina, average strength and poor flexibility. Passing single tests like those above, don't test enough variety to see if someone is fit or not imo.

    In terms of mental health and fitness, we should incorportate fitness and diet into our daily lives and structures from starting school, then it would be far less of a challenge as we get older.
    Agreed. For me the walk 6 miles without getting breathless is a doddle. 20 pressups? Get stuffed. I reckon I can do two.
    It was an 'or', not an 'and'.

    Any measure has to include people who may not be able to walk or run well. I did consider a cycling one, or a swimming one, but they're not particularly inclusive.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    So you can loosen the shoes to get them on.
    People manage to get into slip on shoes quicker than they can lace up shoes, so struggling to see any advantage here.
    They also slip-off more easily, which is a disadvantage when running away. They are unconsciously advertising status, as they will never (Tate excepted) be in a hostile environment where rapid movement or good footing is an issue. They are basically slippers for wealthy people.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    Because bending down to retie a shoelace is a good way to determine whether you are being followed.
    Gives the enemy spy a chance to catch up! Us slip on agents use the following technique instead:

    Enter building
    Take shoes off
    Wait for follower to take shoes off
    Slip shoes back on
    Take advantage of the 30 seconds the follower needs to tie his laces back up to leave the building safely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Given how NYT activist employees seem to think everybody is a Nazi, they seemed to be ignorant of the actual Nazis.

    NYT - In a First, Germany’s Far Right Will Take Control of a District....

    https://web.archive.org/web/20230626161909/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/germany-afd-far-right.html

    (they have corrected it now).

    Did they come under Prussia over their error?
    Will Putin feel the need to invade?
    Maybe it's Posen him a dilemma.
    Hopefully he may pause before Prussian into anything
    He's never Lett that stop him before.
    He has so little of his original army left that he only has one professional soldier left. Therefore he will have to ensure his only Pro-goes-in first.

    (beat that one Mr Pun champ)
    I admire the way you can just Krakow one like that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    SKS says It’s really not that complicated: stop bailing out private companies and bring our water into public ownership instead.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    I agree with all that, but our lad Leon is moaning about his extra timber whilst quaffing booze and eating like a king in expensive restaurants. He'd rather spend a fortune on diet pills than cut back his lifestyle choices. He's overweight because he wants to be, most folk don't get that option, they eat what they can afford or have time to prepare and for far too many people in the UK, that means ultra processed crap.
    I get the impression Leon isn't moaning due to his weight: he's moaning to draw attention to the fact he can quaff *excellent* booze and eat like a *king* in *expensive* restaurants, and is *edgy* enough to take some potentially-dubious and *expensive* dieting pills.

    It's performance-art moaning.
    Recreational illnesses
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892

    So its an hour since I posted that Labour Tories and Tory Tories are identical in almost every respect.

    About 20 replies (mostly namecalling)

    Not a single one arguing the factual accuracy of any of the list of why they are basically 2 heads of the same rancid beast

    Telling

    Im off to footy Alsager vs Congleton

    I've heard right-wingers make the same complaint just this week. That centrists in the Cabinet are not real Tories and could happily serve under Starmer. As we used to say, the Blairites are Cameroons, and the Cameroons are Blairites.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
    Also, in my case, so Mrs C can have the worn and broken laces to tie up her garden plants.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
    Feet don't swell, at least not noticably. Know my fitness from gym and running. Wear trainers with lace ups most of the time I'm out so gait for the limited time Im wearing formal shoes pretty irrelevant.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    SKS says It’s really not that complicated: stop bailing out private companies and bring our water into public ownership instead.

    He has changed his mind now though.

    All for the current broken system

    Centrists all happy to support the former and now the latter as to not do so would be SKS Fan treason
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    SKS says It’s really not that complicated: stop bailing out private companies and bring our water into public ownership instead.

    He has changed his mind now though.

    All for the current broken system

    Centrists all happy to support the former and now the latter as to not do so would be SKS Fan treason
    Jezza still on the right side mind but you cant now support that stance even though circa 80% do
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    Couple of very curt interviews on TMS in last couple of days
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    viewcode said:



    In mt experience, it's a really complex issue.

    Many people want to have a different body shape (mostly thinner) because they think that equates to health and vitality: it's the idealised body shape we're subjected to all the time in the media and online. The one-size-fits-all worldview.

    The problem is, that 'ideal' (*) is unachievable to many. Take a lady I know (not Mrs J) who is very fit (a runner), yet is technically obese. She is very unhappy because of this, and spends a lot of money on different diets and fads. But as I said, she is very fit.

    Another friend of mine is incredibly slight and slender, as though a gust of wind might blow her away. She is, IMV, unfit. She has also had eating problems in the past.

    I'm trying to lose weight, partly because of my running - less weight to carry around. According to Garmin, my fitness age is 21 - I'm 50. But despite this, I still feel like I'm a little podgy. Not enough to cause me mental anguish, but enough to curse the scales the day after a party.

    I wonder if a change in definition of fitness could be made. Instead of looking at things like weight and BMI, which are vague tools at best, perhaps something akin to simple rules of thumb= like the following:

    You are fit if you can do any of these:
    *) Walk six miles in two hours on the flat without getting breathless
    *) Go up three flights of stairs in a minute without getting breathless.
    *) You can jog a kilometre in under ten minutes.
    *) You can do twenty perfect push-ups in one go.

    (*) IMO it's not ideal; often the models appear very underweight.

    Hang on, most can fast walk a kilometre in under ten minutes - it is hardly a mark of fitness if someone can jog that. Whereas twenty perfect push ups is probably less than 10% maybe less than 5% of the population.
    The values can be altered as appropriate. And you might be surprised who cannot jog that far - especially without getting breathless (as I forgot to add to that option...)

    The point is that weight is a really poor measure of fitness and health, and one that causes a great deal of mental anguish. Giving a set of physical options that say: "You're good if you can do this!" is much more positive - especially if the range of options is inclusive (I added push-ups as there was a time I could not walk).

    BMI is also a poor measure that takes little account of bodyshape. More accurate measures are harder to take and are far less accessible.
    I agree with all that, but our lad Leon is moaning about his extra timber whilst quaffing booze and eating like a king in expensive restaurants. He'd rather spend a fortune on diet pills than cut back his lifestyle choices. He's overweight because he wants to be, most folk don't get that option, they eat what they can afford or have time to prepare and for far too many people in the UK, that means ultra processed crap.
    I get the impression Leon isn't moaning due to his weight: he's moaning to draw attention to the fact he can quaff *excellent* booze and eat like a *king* in *expensive* restaurants, and is *edgy* enough to take some potentially-dubious and *expensive* dieting pills.

    It's performance-art moaning.
    Recreational illnesses
    It's hard being cool these days:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/01/many-high-street-frappes-coffees-contain-more-sugar-mars-bar
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246

    So its an hour since I posted that Labour Tories and Tory Tories are identical in almost every respect.

    About 20 replies (mostly namecalling)

    Not a single one arguing the factual accuracy of any of the list of why they are basically 2 heads of the same rancid beast

    Telling

    Im off to footy Alsager vs Congleton

    I've heard right-wingers make the same complaint just this week. That centrists in the Cabinet are not real Tories and could happily serve under Starmer. As we used to say, the Blairites are Cameroons, and the Cameroons are Blairites.
    It used to be called Butskellism in that halcyon decade when everyone agreed about everything.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    So you can loosen the shoes to get them on.
    People manage to get into slip on shoes quicker than they can lace up shoes, so struggling to see any advantage here.
    They also slip-off more easily, which is a disadvantage when running away. They are unconsciously advertising status, as they will never (Tate excepted) be in a hostile environment where rapid movement or good footing is an issue. They are basically slippers for wealthy people.
    I think Tate might be pleased to not have to bend over to tie his shoe laces where he could end up. He might discover that being force taken from behind and involuntarily choked aren’t quite as fun as he indicated to his followers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    Couple of very curt interviews on TMS in last couple of days
    To be fair, TMS don't know s##t.....so I don't blame the England cricket team for not having much time for their idiotic questions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    So its an hour since I posted that Labour Tories and Tory Tories are identical in almost every respect.

    About 20 replies (mostly namecalling)

    Not a single one arguing the factual accuracy of any of the list of why they are basically 2 heads of the same rancid beast

    Telling

    Im off to footy Alsager vs Congleton

    I've heard right-wingers make the same complaint just this week. That centrists in the Cabinet are not real Tories and could happily serve under Starmer. As we used to say, the Blairites are Cameroons, and the Cameroons are Blairites.
    Hunt, Chalk, Coffey, Cleverly and Hands could certainly be in Starmer's Shadow Cabinet and Streeting and Reeves could probably have been in Cameron's Cabinet
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    ...Feet don't swell, at least not noticably...

    Unfortunately for people who stand for long periods, and especially for people with circulation problems, they most certainly do.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    HYUFD said:

    So its an hour since I posted that Labour Tories and Tory Tories are identical in almost every respect.

    About 20 replies (mostly namecalling)

    Not a single one arguing the factual accuracy of any of the list of why they are basically 2 heads of the same rancid beast

    Telling

    Im off to footy Alsager vs Congleton

    I've heard right-wingers make the same complaint just this week. That centrists in the Cabinet are not real Tories and could happily serve under Starmer. As we used to say, the Blairites are Cameroons, and the Cameroons are Blairites.
    Hunt, Chalk, Coffey, Cleverly and Hands could certainly be in Starmer's Shadow Cabinet and Streeting and Reeves could probably have been in Cameron's Cabinet
    Coffey? Come off it. The nearest she could get is *not* providing turnips for the donkeys.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    Couple of very curt interviews on TMS in last couple of days
    To be fair, TMS don't know s##t.....so I don't blame the England cricket team for not having much time for their idiotic questions.
    Is it idiotic to ask them about the aggressive approach? KP tried to defend them by saying you attack short-pitch bowling because it's scary, but I'm not sure Duckett was afraid of it given the way he was swatting the short ball.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
    Also, in my case, so Mrs C can have the worn and broken laces to tie up her garden plants.
    Never be in a situation where string or a string substitute cannot be easily obtained. :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    .

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    I did go Lib Dem at the Local Election, in part because my local Lib Dem candidate was not remotely NIMBY and appealed based on campaigning on roads and schools instead.

    However on a national level, while I respect the Lib Dems on many issues I am appalled at their cynical NIMBYism. And SKS at least is attempting to tackle the Housing issue, what has Davey had to say about it apart from appealing to NIMBYs to win by-elections?

    I've not made my mind up yet. But SKS is currently winning my respect more than Davey or Sunak, and I never thought I'd say that.
    Well you did vote for Blair, hardly surprising you are now likely to vote for Starmer
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    Because bending down to retie a shoelace is a good way to determine whether you are being followed.
    Gives the enemy spy a chance to catch up! Us slip on agents use the following technique instead:

    Enter building
    Take shoes off
    Wait for follower to take shoes off
    Slip shoes back on
    Take advantage of the 30 seconds the follower needs to tie his laces back up to leave the building safely.
    So if you think that you are being followed, head for a mosque.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
    Feet don't swell, at least not noticably. Know my fitness from gym and running. Wear trainers with lace ups most of the time I'm out so gait for the limited time Im wearing formal shoes pretty irrelevant.
    I'm odd with laces: after I get shoes, I tie them up, and never untie them. I always slip them on.

    It's because I've got metal and nerve damage in an ankle. If I tie up my shoes too tightly, I can be in agony. Once I get the laces right, I never want to undo them and risk getting it wrong. It's also blooming difficult for me to buy shoes, as I get a pair, and then after a week find myself in agony. Once I find a good pair, I buy several.

    The same's true for walking boots, except I have to lace them (although the laces put less strain on the side of the ankle than shoes do). I once ordered five identical pairs of walking boots from Open Air (RIP) in Cambridge, much to their amusement.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited July 2023

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    They enable better adaptation to foot variance (useful if your feet swell or wear different-thick socks), promote better gait thru being securely fixed, provide a good indicator of fitness (if you can't bend down to tie them up then you have problems) and - not applicable to PB's more rareified denizens but nevertheless - if you are down on your luck and need cheering up, a new pair of laces can make you feel like a millionaire.
    Also, in my case, so Mrs C can have the worn and broken laces to tie up her garden plants.
    Never be in a situation where string or a string substitute cannot be easily obtained. :)
    Quite. Actually, the brown or black colours work very well - much better than plastic ties, quite apart from the economy. Sp it doesn't qualify for the Viz letters from the readers page.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    tlg86 said:

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    I don't think the England cricket team think too much of Aggers...

    He (Duckett) was feisty in an interview with me on Test Match Special and bristled when I questioned whether England should have reined it in.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66068007

    Couple of very curt interviews on TMS in last couple of days
    To be fair, TMS don't know s##t.....so I don't blame the England cricket team for not having much time for their idiotic questions.
    Is it idiotic to ask them about the aggressive approach? KP tried to defend them by saying you attack short-pitch bowling because it's scary, but I'm not sure Duckett was afraid of it given the way he was swatting the short ball.
    No. I meant in general, I reckon the England team don't have much respect for their opinions. Aggers, Tuffers, etc know square root of f##k all about modern cricket. Tuffers on T20 is worse than a bloke down the pub after 10 pints trying to tell you about the tactical approach of modern T20.

    Stokes gives them short shrift most of the time.

    Where as when these pros talk to the likes of Jarrod Kimber it is totally different.
  • HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    Leave or Remain has nothing to do with it anymore. Brexit is done, history, finished. It's happened.

    Anyone who still campaigns on Leave or Remain grounds is an absolute moron. And anyone who thinks Leavers will vote Tory because Brexit is a bigger fool.

    It's the past now, look to the future.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Stocky said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Ozempic is weird but effective

    Did you just buy the starter pack, or are you all in?
    All in. Started on 0.5. Insanely expensive*

    I briefly felt a little nauseous yesterday - day 2 - but nowt else. Fine otherwise

    Today I got the first "positive" effects. My appetite has simple dropped away. You stop thinking about food and you feel full very quickly when you do eat. Just has Coquille St Jacques and a green salad, first and only meal of the day. Feel sated

    *will be worth it, alone, if it reduces my crazily spendy wine habit
    I had to Google it. Do you need it or are you taking it recreationally? I picture you as some rakishly rake thin.
    I'm a little chunky. Could easily lose 10-12 pounds I put on in lockdown and just won't sod off. But I'm not obese and I don't really need it - so it is vanity, but it is also curiosity

    These drugs could be revolutionary if they work. The NHS could save tens of billions if we can abolish severe overwight and obesity with mere pills and jabs (which will come down in price sharply and shortly)
    That's insane. You would save a fortune and lose weight just by cutting down on the booze and easing back on all the gourmet nosh. Most obese people are obese because the only food they can afford or can be bothered to cook is over processed dogshite, full of sweeteners and edible chemicals that don't sate you and make you want more. You're a fat knacker because you've got more money than sense and never say no.
    For some reason, you're one of my favourite posters on here, but have a tendency towards being a bell end (as do we all!)
    I've liked but reluctantly because I have exactly the same issue as @Leon . I don't eat junk food at all, but I eat and drink an awful lot and love it. It does mean when I cut back the weight drops off but I need motivation to do so which is usually events that require a lower weight.
    I think we need to stop judging people on their body shape.

    You say you eat and drink a lot and love it. That's great, you are doing what you want and it is obvious that that you value this more than you value a slimmer body shape. Good for you. If you valued a slimmer body more you would not indulge as much. People are the shape they want to be but won't accept this. Sure if they had a magic wand they would take a slimmer version but not at the expense of losing other things they indulge in life. Maximising utility and all that.
    That's all fine, but if they start getting illnesses caused by being overweight or obese, who do they expect to pay the bills for their medical treatment? If they live in the UK, the answer is other people.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Ozempic is weird but effective

    Did you just buy the starter pack, or are you all in?
    All in. Started on 0.5. Insanely expensive*

    I briefly felt a little nauseous yesterday - day 2 - but nowt else. Fine otherwise

    Today I got the first "positive" effects. My appetite has simple dropped away. You stop thinking about food and you feel full very quickly when you do eat. Just has Coquille St Jacques and a green salad, first and only meal of the day. Feel sated

    *will be worth it, alone, if it reduces my crazily spendy wine habit
    I had to Google it. Do you need it or are you taking it recreationally? I picture you as some rakishly rake thin.
    I'm a little chunky. Could easily lose 10-12 pounds I put on in lockdown and just won't sod off. But I'm not obese and I don't really need it - so it is vanity, but it is also curiosity

    These drugs could be revolutionary if they work. The NHS could save tens of billions if we can abolish severe overwight and obesity with mere pills and jabs (which will come down in price sharply and shortly)
    That's insane. You would save a fortune and lose weight just by cutting down on the booze and easing back on all the gourmet nosh. Most obese people are obese because the only food they can afford or can be bothered to cook is over processed dogshite, full of sweeteners and edible chemicals that don't sate you and make you want more. You're a fat knacker because you've got more money than sense and never say no.
    For some reason, you're one of my favourite posters on here, but have a tendency towards being a bell end (as do we all!)
    I've liked but reluctantly because I have exactly the same issue as @Leon . I don't eat junk food at all, but I eat and drink an awful lot and love it. It does mean when I cut back the weight drops off but I need motivation to do so which is usually events that require a lower weight.
    I think we need to stop judging people on their body shape.

    You say you eat and drink a lot and love it. That's great, you are doing what you want and it is obvious that that you value this more than you value a slimmer body shape. Good for you. If you valued a slimmer body more you would not indulge as much. People are the shape they want to be but won't accept this. Sure if they had a magic wand they would take a slimmer version but not at the expense of losing other things they indulge in life. Maximising utility and all that.
    That's all fine, but if they start getting illnesses caused by being overweight or obese, who do they expect to pay the bills for their medical treatment? If they live in the UK, the answer is other people.
    Nothing wrong with that argument but it becomes a massive kettle of fish if you take that further. If someone else is overweight, why am I paying for their medical treatment? If someone gets lung cancer from smoking, why am I paying for their medical treatment? If someone gets injured from a fall after climbing, why am I paying for their medical treatment? If someone goes out for a walk, isn't paying attention and gets hit by a bus, why am I paying for their medical treatment?

    Answer: because if it happens to me, other people will pay for my medical treatment
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    No idea why the England team don't respect TMS...this is what Tuffer just said...

    It's going to be interesting, are England going to play for a draw?

    He gets paid to say this shit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023
    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
  • Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    And this self entitled attitude is the problem.

    Thinking that working and non working people should be treated fairly and equitably is not anti elderly.

    How is it anti elderly to think that if teachers or firefighters or nurses can't get a double digit pay rise that pensioners shouldn't either?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    Indeed. Increase pension credit even faster than inflation and state pension at similar rate to public sector pay would be fine with me.

    Lots of correct criticism of France today for pretending that ignoring race in politics will somehow solve any racial issues. Similarly ignoring the growing influence of age in UK politics and economy is not the answer, it needs to be discussed and addressed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    Leave or Remain has nothing to do with it anymore. Brexit is done, history, finished. It's happened.

    Anyone who still campaigns on Leave or Remain grounds is an absolute moron. And anyone who thinks Leavers will vote Tory because Brexit is a bigger fool.

    It's the past now, look to the future.
    Labour will certainly align us closer to EU regulations if they win, if they are re elected they will likely re enter the EEA, if they have a 3rd term Labour will likely look to rejoin the full EU
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
    Every new LD council has tried to overturn Local Plans put forward by the previous Tory council for new housing. Labour under Starmer is pushing for even more housing in the greenbelt than the Tories will allow
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    The purpose of the triple lock is to raise the state pension, by hook or by crook, to a similar level to other European countries. Most working people can see the point of this if they are confident of receiving it themselves in due course. There is a separate issue of a minority of pensioners who are visibly richer than they need to be when everyone else is feeling the pinch. They (i.e. We) won't be harmed much by the loss of the triple lock but the majority of poorer pensioners, and future poorer pensioners, certainly would be.
    Poorer pensioners can be protected by Pension Credit rather than State Pension. If people in their 20s and 30s think they will receive similar levels of non means tested pension as todays pensioners get they are deluded.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    Leave or Remain has nothing to do with it anymore. Brexit is done, history, finished. It's happened.

    Anyone who still campaigns on Leave or Remain grounds is an absolute moron. And anyone who thinks Leavers will vote Tory because Brexit is a bigger fool.

    It's the past now, look to the future.
    Labour will certainly align us closer to EU regulations if they win, if they are re elected they will likely re enter the EEA, if they have a 3rd term Labour will likely look to rejoin the full EU
    And if that turns out to be the will of the people by then, why not?
  • Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
    Spitefully denying opportunities for people to have a home or business is not "looking after your own area".

    If you want to look after your own area start by ensuring there is sufficient housing and work opportunities etc for those who need it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    The purpose of the triple lock is to raise the state pension, by hook or by crook, to a similar level to other European countries. Most working people can see the point of this if they are confident of receiving it themselves in due course. There is a separate issue of a minority of pensioners who are visibly richer than they need to be when everyone else is feeling the pinch. They (i.e. We) won't be harmed much by the loss of the triple lock but the majority of poorer pensioners, and future poorer pensioners, certainly would be.
    Poorer pensioners can be protected by Pension Credit rather than State Pension. If people in their 20s and 30s think they will receive similar levels of non means tested pension as todays pensioners get they are deluded.
    The problem is that a lot of poorer pensioners don't claim what they are entitled to.

    I really think we need to have a proper look at how we can ensure pensioners automatically receive enough money to live on and if that means people receiving their pension are taxed at a different rate to everyone else so be it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    No idea why the England team don't respect TMS...this is what Tuffer just said...

    It's going to be interesting, are England going to play for a draw?

    He gets paid to say this shit.

    What’s wrong with that question other than an answer needs to be caveated with “it depends on when the Australians declare”?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    tlg86 said:

    No idea why the England team don't respect TMS...this is what Tuffer just said...

    It's going to be interesting, are England going to play for a draw?

    He gets paid to say this shit.

    What’s wrong with that question other than an answer needs to be caveated with “it depends on when the Australians declare”?
    Here's another cracker,

    "I think England have looked better when they have been dominating. When Australia have been dominating, they have been more conservative. Their little mistakes haven't been as costly as ours."

    What the f##k is he talking about. Its absolute drivel.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
    For example, here's a Labour nimby:

    https://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/appeal-win-is-dark-day-for-democracy-says-warwick-and-leamington-mp/

    The principal objections to the development are (a) new residents would have to drive down pre-existing streets and (b) loss of dog-crapping space.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    The purpose of the triple lock is to raise the state pension, by hook or by crook, to a similar level to other European countries. Most working people can see the point of this if they are confident of receiving it themselves in due course. There is a separate issue of a minority of pensioners who are visibly richer than they need to be when everyone else is feeling the pinch. They (i.e. We) won't be harmed much by the loss of the triple lock but the majority of poorer pensioners, and future poorer pensioners, certainly would be.
    Poorer pensioners can be protected by Pension Credit rather than State Pension. If people in their 20s and 30s think they will receive similar levels of non means tested pension as todays pensioners get they are deluded.
    But if you means test pensions, it discourages people from making their own provision, which is the kind of long term mistake the UK makes all the time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    The big cricket news is Scotland need 183 to eliminate West Indies from the World Cup in the qualifiers.
    For someone who began watching in the Seventies that is astounding.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,591

    viewcode said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    Why's Carlson got a can of super strength lager on the table next to him? You'd have thought Tate would've offered him a glass, to give it fractionally less of an "alcos on a park bench" vibe.
    Slip-on shoes. Shows they're either too unfit or too lazy to bend down and tie them.

    Somebody told me this once and I don't know if it's true or not: fixings on clothing are getting rarer/less complex. Button-up shirts are replaced by t-shirts or the top button is never done up. Slip-on shoes replace laced. Button-up flies were replaced by zips. The two people above are wealthy and indicate their class thru their choices of clothing, which indirectly betray their disadvantages.
    What is the actual advantage of shoe laces on mens formal shoes? I see the advantage with trainers as get a better fit, but if the shoe is a pretty fixed shape anyway why bother with laces?
    Because bending down to retie a shoelace is a good way to determine whether you are being followed.
    Gives the enemy spy a chance to catch up! Us slip on agents use the following technique instead:

    Enter building
    Take shoes off
    Wait for follower to take shoes off
    Slip shoes back on
    Take advantage of the 30 seconds the follower needs to tie his laces back up to leave the building safely.
    I see the course at Sarratt hasn't changed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    dixiedean said:

    The big cricket news is Scotland need 183 to eliminate West Indies from the World Cup in the qualifiers.
    For someone who began watching in the Seventies that is astounding.

    West Indies cricket is a total mess. And of course they are being even more impacted than teams like England with the potential for T20 riches where the likes of Sunil Narine have for the past 5+ years been guns for hire around the world.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
    No, it isn't.

    You can make solid arguments for and against it. But to paint opposition to it as "anti-elderly" is a deliberate mischaracterisation.

    If we had a period of low earnings growth and low inflation, the triple lock says that pensions should grow faster than both, minimum 2.5%.

    You can argue that they should grow faster. You can argue that they shouldn't. But those who would remove that pillar are against the triple lock without agreeing the inflation should erode pensions. At some point, and this is absolutely certain, the triple lock will have to go. It's a question of when, not if.
    The average state pensioner has an income less than minimum wage.

    Pensioners paid in via National Insurance all their lives to the Treasury, pensioners vote more than any other age group and pensioners will continue to increase as a share of the UK population with our low birthrate. So triple lock stays
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    eek said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    The purpose of the triple lock is to raise the state pension, by hook or by crook, to a similar level to other European countries. Most working people can see the point of this if they are confident of receiving it themselves in due course. There is a separate issue of a minority of pensioners who are visibly richer than they need to be when everyone else is feeling the pinch. They (i.e. We) won't be harmed much by the loss of the triple lock but the majority of poorer pensioners, and future poorer pensioners, certainly would be.
    Poorer pensioners can be protected by Pension Credit rather than State Pension. If people in their 20s and 30s think they will receive similar levels of non means tested pension as todays pensioners get they are deluded.
    The problem is that a lot of poorer pensioners don't claim what they are entitled to.

    I really think we need to have a proper look at how we can ensure pensioners automatically receive enough money to live on and if that means people receiving their pension are taxed at a different rate to everyone else so be it.
    I am all for helping the poorest in society but there is an element of they also need to be willing to help themselves. We aren't rich enough to afford an unnecessary £10bn a year state pension increase because some other pensioners aren't willing to claim what they are owed.

    Happy to spend plenty on advertising to them and simplifying processes to get them to claim, but not happy to accept it means we automatically have to give extra billions to the richest cohort from poorer cohorts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,357
    "WarMonitor🇺🇦
    @WarMonitor3
    Ukrainian forces have made a breakthrough near Robotyne"


    https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1675067163181236224

    The last time this twitter user claimed a Ukrainian offensive breakthrough, Kherson on the right bank of the Dnipro was liberated. It's not something they say lightly.

    That said, Robotyne lies on the first of three Russian lines of defence in that area.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    If I were Australia, I’d bat to the point where normally you’d expect the opposition to play for a draw. No need to tempt England to go for it and very amusing for them if England do shut up shop.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    tlg86 said:

    If I were Australia, I’d bat to the point where normally you’d expect the opposition to play for a draw. No need to tempt England to go for it and very amusing for them if England do shut up shop.

    Outside of Root and Stokes, I am not sure any of the others have the technique to "shut up shop" for hours on end. Hence one of the motivating factors behind BazBall.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
    No, it isn't.

    You can make solid arguments for and against it. But to paint opposition to it as "anti-elderly" is a deliberate mischaracterisation.

    If we had a period of low earnings growth and low inflation, the triple lock says that pensions should grow faster than both, minimum 2.5%.

    You can argue that they should grow faster. You can argue that they shouldn't. But those who would remove that pillar are against the triple lock without agreeing the inflation should erode pensions. At some point, and this is absolutely certain, the triple lock will have to go. It's a question of when, not if.
    The average state pensioner has an income less than minimum wage.

    Pensioners paid in via National Insurance all their lives to the Treasury, pensioners vote more than any other age group and pensioners will continue to increase as a share of the UK population with our low birthrate. So triple lock stays
    You forgot to use "Tory" three times, before each mention of "pensioners".
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    The purpose of the triple lock is to raise the state pension, by hook or by crook, to a similar level to other European countries. Most working people can see the point of this if they are confident of receiving it themselves in due course. There is a separate issue of a minority of pensioners who are visibly richer than they need to be when everyone else is feeling the pinch. They (i.e. We) won't be harmed much by the loss of the triple lock but the majority of poorer pensioners, and future poorer pensioners, certainly would be.
    Poorer pensioners can be protected by Pension Credit rather than State Pension. If people in their 20s and 30s think they will receive similar levels of non means tested pension as todays pensioners get they are deluded.
    But if you means test pensions, it discourages people from making their own provision, which is the kind of long term mistake the UK makes all the time.
    Its a different landscape since mandatory pension enrollment. And most people want to retire on more than just minimum state support so will build up their own provision, if they can. (And that can will be easier without the triple lock).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
    No, it isn't.

    You can make solid arguments for and against it. But to paint opposition to it as "anti-elderly" is a deliberate mischaracterisation.

    If we had a period of low earnings growth and low inflation, the triple lock says that pensions should grow faster than both, minimum 2.5%.

    You can argue that they should grow faster. You can argue that they shouldn't. But those who would remove that pillar are against the triple lock without agreeing the inflation should erode pensions. At some point, and this is absolutely certain, the triple lock will have to go. It's a question of when, not if.
    The average state pensioner has an income less than minimum wage.

    Pensioners paid in via National Insurance all their lives to the Treasury, pensioners vote more than any other age group and pensioners will continue to increase as a share of the UK population with our low birthrate. So triple lock stays
    You forgot to use "Tory" three times, before each mention of "pensioners".
    They aren't always. Blair won pensioners in 1997
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023

    dixiedean said:

    The big cricket news is Scotland need 183 to eliminate West Indies from the World Cup in the qualifiers.
    For someone who began watching in the Seventies that is astounding.

    West Indies cricket is a total mess. And of course they are being even more impacted than teams like England with the potential for T20 riches where the likes of Sunil Narine have for the past 5+ years been guns for hire around the world.
    The baleful effect of American culture on West Indies cricket.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Farooq said:

    Just a couple of bros hanging out with a ceramic gorilla.

    As an aside, no one should go for the skinny chino, no socks, loafers thing, but DEFINITELY not the overweight and/or middle aged. Leon, I’m looking at you.


    The gorilla is to show they're alphas. The lack of socks is a signal that they are hard men, ready to kick off their shoes and give each other a foot job karate lessons at a moment's notice.

    Socks are for the soft. Gorillas don't wear socks.
    The tin of over strength lager is to show solidarity to the target audience of incel alcoholics.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
    No, it isn't.

    You can make solid arguments for and against it. But to paint opposition to it as "anti-elderly" is a deliberate mischaracterisation.

    If we had a period of low earnings growth and low inflation, the triple lock says that pensions should grow faster than both, minimum 2.5%.

    You can argue that they should grow faster. You can argue that they shouldn't. But those who would remove that pillar are against the triple lock without agreeing the inflation should erode pensions. At some point, and this is absolutely certain, the triple lock will have to go. It's a question of when, not if.
    The average state pensioner has an income less than minimum wage.

    Pensioners paid in via National Insurance all their lives to the Treasury, pensioners vote more than any other age group and pensioners will continue to increase as a share of the UK population with our low birthrate. So triple lock stays
    But it will have to go eventually, won't it? If you have a ratchet on inflation, a ratchet on average wages, and a hard floor of 2.5%, and you leave that in place in perpetuity, eventually pensioners will own literally everything.

    You might rationally see this as a correction to get the UK in line with other European countries. But it's not a policy that can be sustained forever. You need an exit strategy, not to turn the policy into a holy cow that can never be slaughtered.
    No not everything, their heirs will inherit.

    As I said anyway minimum wage is up by just as much as the state pension and someone working in the City of London for example will earn more than even the average private pension pensioner
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
    For example, here's a Labour nimby:

    https://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/appeal-win-is-dark-day-for-democracy-says-warwick-and-leamington-mp/

    The principal objections to the development are (a) new residents would have to drive down pre-existing streets and (b) loss of dog-crapping space.
    As a general point, political questions about new development come up early in almost every political career. Campaigning against new development is one thing that you need to do to get elected - it is in the same category as reporting potholes. Because it is something that matters to voters. I don't see how this will ever change. In many ways it is a necessary part of the process, because often it leads to improvements in developments and compromises being struck.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    The big cricket news is Scotland need 183 to eliminate West Indies from the World Cup in the qualifiers.
    For someone who began watching in the Seventies that is astounding.

    West Indies cricket is a total mess. And of course they are being even more impacted than teams like England with the potential for T20 riches where the likes of Sunil Narine have for the past 5+ years been guns for hire around the world.
    The baleful effect of American culture on West Indies cricket.
    Yes they already had real issues with growing popularity of other sports like basketball, but the T20 revolution has further exacerbated the issue at international level. If you are talented WI cricketer, you can make buttons playing for the national team, or you can make millions being a gun for hire around the world in T20.

    And of course Team England have benefited in the form of Chris Jordon and Jofra Archer.
  • darkage said:

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky, I missed the second half of your question, sorry just re-read it. What makes me think a LP Government would satisfy me more?

    Pretty much nothing to be honest. I do not trust Labour as far as I could throw them, and as far as extracting the efforts of those who are working and transferring it to those who are preferred interests then I think Labour could be every bit as bad as the Tories are. So I'm not exactly keen on Labour winning.

    Though if my efforts are to be taxed and redistributed to others anyway, then I'd rather that redistribution goes to fund the less fortunate than fund those who want to ensure their inheritance is as big as possible. So Labour becomes the lesser of two evils.

    And at least on housing, SKS is making the right noises. He's at least pretending he gets it. Whether he does or not, I don't know.

    But I've always been an advocate of better the devil you don't know. If we know the Tories are going to be bad, then its time for a change.

    Labour haven't yet won my vote though, but it is certainly open to them for the first time in decades.

    IMO, and I feel I know you reasonably well and are not too far away from you ideologically on most things, it would be a big mistake to vote Labour. Disaffected Tories like you should surely stop off at at the LibDems??
    Not if they are Leavers who want more housing in the greenbelt like Bart, the LDs were anti Brexit and are the most NIMBY of the 3 main parties too
    I don't believe that the LDs are more "nimby" than the other parties - it's just a stance to win particular constituency elections. Environmentalists, who are sometimes accused of being nimby, actually do not want mass house-building in any green area of the UK. Not in anyone's back yard. As for the others, why is nimby a derogatory term anyway? I always think less of those that use it. Of course people want to look after their own area and, by extension, their country.
    For example, here's a Labour nimby:

    https://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/appeal-win-is-dark-day-for-democracy-says-warwick-and-leamington-mp/

    The principal objections to the development are (a) new residents would have to drive down pre-existing streets and (b) loss of dog-crapping space.
    As a general point, political questions about new development come up early in almost every political career. Campaigning against new development is one thing that you need to do to get elected - it is in the same category as reporting potholes. Because it is something that matters to voters. I don't see how this will ever change. In many ways it is a necessary part of the process, because often it leads to improvements in developments and compromises being struck.
    The problem with developments is that there is nothing like enough. We have a shortfall of 3 million homes, so people are compelled to live within crappy sublets of a house rather than having a home of their own.

    It can change by a government having the cojones of removing the political process out of development. Liberalising the system, Japan style, so that politicians do not get a say in what people do with residential zoned land.

    It should be no more up to politicians what someone does with their own land, so long as it's within regulations, than it is up to them what stock a supermarket sells subject to same caveat.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    dixiedean said:

    The big cricket news is Scotland need 183 to eliminate West Indies from the World Cup in the qualifiers.
    For someone who began watching in the Seventies that is astounding.

    Happy for the Scots but the decline of cricket in the West Indies is very sad
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Oh and Stocky third and final strike for why I dislike this Government - the wages of those who are working for a living is going up by well under inflation, while the taxpayers funded wages for those who are on benefits instead is protected by the Triple Lock.

    If the Conservative Party won't stand up for people who work for a living, who will?

    The modern Conservative Party has become the party of the welfare state, its just that welfare state now is for people who have retired. Triple lock, student taxes going up, wages held down, taxes on wages going up, rents to be paid due to a shortfall in housing . . . what is there to respect?

    Where is the party of aspiration?

    The people standing up for people who labour for a living, should be, err, Labour. They will be triple lockers as well though, albeit for slightly different reasons.

    The conversation on pb this week about a 70 year old needing a new car and the tone being about eligibility for a blue badge and that their children should pay for the car demonstate why Labour will keep it. There is still a lingering misapprehension that 70 year olds need extra support. 70 is the new 60 and 80 is the new 70 and all that.
    As I said yesterday Sunak is committed to including the triple lock in the conservative manifesto and now Starmer has done the same

    I also posted a 2021 yougov survey that showed majority support for the triple lock across all ages including the young.

    It is a warning to all those who seem anti elderly that it is not a majority view

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1674406530802765826?t=bDR9hfISQSOc_T9o4PZNIg&s=19
    Being against the triple lock is not anti-elderly
    It is for those who are reliant on the state pension only, in any case benefits and the minimum wage also are up 10% so the poorest receive most protection from high inflation
    No, it isn't.

    You can make solid arguments for and against it. But to paint opposition to it as "anti-elderly" is a deliberate mischaracterisation.

    If we had a period of low earnings growth and low inflation, the triple lock says that pensions should grow faster than both, minimum 2.5%.

    You can argue that they should grow faster. You can argue that they shouldn't. But those who would remove that pillar are against the triple lock without agreeing the inflation should erode pensions. At some point, and this is absolutely certain, the triple lock will have to go. It's a question of when, not if.
    The average state pensioner has an income less than minimum wage.

    Pensioners paid in via National Insurance all their lives to the Treasury, pensioners vote more than any other age group and pensioners will continue to increase as a share of the UK population with our low birthrate. So triple lock stays
    But it will have to go eventually, won't it? If you have a ratchet on inflation, a ratchet on average wages, and a hard floor of 2.5%, and you leave that in place in perpetuity, eventually pensioners will own literally everything.

    You might rationally see this as a correction to get the UK in line with other European countries. But it's not a policy that can be sustained forever. You need an exit strategy, not to turn the policy into a holy cow that can never be slaughtered.
    No not everything, their heirs will inherit.

    As I said anyway minimum wage is up by just as much as the state pension and someone working in the City of London for example will earn more than even the average private pension pensioner
    "Working in the City of London." Cleaners? Nurses? Cooks? Security?

    But of course these people *do not count* in Rich Pensioner Tory Land where all the workingt age people can do is sit on their thumbs waiting for mummy and daddy to die.
This discussion has been closed.