@Steven_Swinford 19s Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:
Penny Mordaunt Alex Chalk Simon Hart Gillian Keegan Tom Tugendhat Chris Philp George Freeman Steve Baker Ed Argar Nick G Jesse Norman Guy Opperman Paul Scully Rebecca Pow Lee Rowley
Who is missing from this list....
A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.
Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
You said earlier that the membership will see to it that all those who abstained will not represent their seat at the next GE
None of these will be allowed to stand then
Some of the 118 who voted for the report in very pro Boris seats in Brexit areas will face deselection attempts yes, those in Remain seats targeted by the LDs will likely survive to be candidates at the next election at least
Is anyone "pro Boris"? Apart from Alex of course. You are fomenting Tory Civil War! Carry on. Re double your efforts. Youse out of power for 15 years puts a hearty smile on my raddled fizzog.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
Those two philosophies have a habit of winning elections...
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
I have been either a member or supporter throughout my lifetime apart from Blair twice
I am utterly appalled at Johnson and his sycophants who are destroying the conservative party and I am certainly more centre left and reject the likes of @HYUFD and the 7 who voted tonight, they sicken me
I am very disappointed in Sunak tonight and have accepted that Starmer is likely to be the next PM but that prospect does not fill me with hope
I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.
Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. As stuartinromford notes it makes sense, if one is in such a weak position, but it makes for a rather drawn out conclusion to this government.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
Those two win elections...
It's crazy how far down the "why don't you f&^% off and join the other lot" rabbit hole the modern Conservative Party has fallen.
Especially when there is such a recent example of what happens to parties that have that attitude to voters.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
Those two win elections...
It's crazy how far down the "why don't you f&^% off and join the other lot" rabbit hole the modern Conservative Party has fallen.
Especially when there is such a recent example of what happens to parties that have that attitude to voters.
They saw it, but could not resist the allure of that combination of superiority and victimhood that is so appealing to political parties thesedays. They know they are best and right, and anyone even in the same party is an enemy if they disagree, and everyone is just picking on them for speaking the truth all the time, probably that evil establishment (which does not include them, the 'natural party of government').
I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.
Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. As stuartinromford notes it makes sense, if one is in such a weak position, but it makes for a rather drawn out conclusion to this government.
Time to draw inspiration from Bazball? If you're going down, you might as well go down quirky and unconventionally. General Election September? Before the mortgages and continuing below inflation pay settlements kick in. Accept a close one, rather than a slaughter by playing to the conventional rules. Can't see a better chance for a win?
I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.
Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. As stuartinromford notes it makes sense, if one is in such a weak position, but it makes for a rather drawn out conclusion to this government.
Yep. Sunak has gone from ship steadier to lamest of all ducks in just six months.
I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.
Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. As stuartinromford notes it makes sense, if one is in such a weak position, but it makes for a rather drawn out conclusion to this government.
Time to draw inspiration from Bazball? If you're going down, you might as well go down quirky and unconventionally. General Election September? Before the mortgages and continuing below inflation pay settlements kick in. Can't see a better chance for a win.
I notice the RCN are worried they will not win their strike ballot this month
If true a big moment for both the public sector and the government
Will vote in favour; commends the committee. Looks like she is taking on the challenge of rising above the minutiae…
“debate strikes at the heart of the bond of trust between the public and this parliament”
Tobias Elwood intervenes to indicate his support.
May: “with leadership comes responsibility….”
Yes, May just confirmed she will vote in favour of the report condemning Boris.
I am sure the former PM will enjoy every moment of it too!
And so she should. Amuses me that Johnson expected loyalty to him but has never shown loyalty to anyone else, including his own family
Loyalty to people is a mugs' game. You're just giving them license to use you as a doormat. If you ever face a choice between abandoning a well-thought-out principle at the request of a person, treat the person as though they've been grooming you. Otherwise you'll be left clearing up the mess they caused you to make, looking like a twat because you knew better but did the wrong thing anyway.
Okay not implying any judgement here..I have always assumed you to be fairly left wing. Is not what you are saying pretty right wing here....loyalty to self over loyalty to the collective. I am genuinely asking because to me left wing thought is you dont matter and you should subjugate what you want for the greater good?
I'm not left wing, I'm a centrist liberal. Some of my beliefs fit well with the left and some of the fit well with the right.
There are two reasons why I often get mistaken for a lefty. One is that I desperately want the Tories out, but that's mainly an issue over standards in public life and the illiberal lurch they have embodied in recent years. I want the sensible people to take over again. The other reason is because I'm a constitutional radical. I don't believe in hierarchies, religion, monarchy, or generational inequality. I think people should be allowed to get rich through hard work or brilliance, and not through rentier capitalism and being born into the right class or caste.
Having said all that the idea you raise, of submitting to the collective, isn't just a left wing idea. It's a feature of some left wing thought, certainly. It's a feature of the authoritarian right and fascism, too. It's present in some forms of nationalism. I find all that stuff a bit distasteful. Yes, we are social beings, but all relationships should be voluntary and everyone should have the means and opportunity to shut other people out (almost) whenever they need to. I think this kind of individualism underpins liberalism, it's sort of a core assumption insofar as I understand liberalism, and I would encourage people to try to free themselves of relationship types that bind them into doing things that conflict with their own sense of right and wrong.
You are Ed Miliband on economics and foreign policy, Jeremy Corbyn on the constitution and social issues basically
Really? Tell me about my foreign policy beliefs then. I let you know what you get right and wrong.
I can help you a bit here - if HYUFD says it, it's likely to be wrong.
I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.
Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. As stuartinromford notes it makes sense, if one is in such a weak position, but it makes for a rather drawn out conclusion to this government.
Time to draw inspiration from Bazball? If you're going down, you might as well go down quirky and unconventionally. General Election September? Before the mortgages and continuing below inflation pay settlements kick in. Can't see a better chance for a win.
I notice the RCN are worried they will not win their strike ballot this month
If true a big moment for both the public sector and the government
And yet the teachers will be out on co-ordinated strikes. Incidentally. No one was content with outing students to parents. Several mentioned it would be a resigning matter.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Yeah indeed. But that's not much. Least worst Tory PM of the last three decades. Some achievement.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
he could have voted against. Quite simple, 100 of his colleagues managed it.
This reminds me of when Frost resigned. Not really much noticed at the time (Christmas 21) but for me it was the end of whatever circus tent-show Boris was trying to erect. Only deflation from thereon in.
The same is true of Rishi today. Whatever he hoped to achieve in office is dead now. He’s missed his opportunity to make his stand and, even with the odds against him, add his contribution to the body politic.
Supporting Kennedy has become a trendy way to signal you have a rebellious streak.
That is obvious from the way others have jumped on the bandwagon, ostensibly not because they are anti-vaccine conspiracists, but because they are posturing as free speech and debate absolutists, and so they can claim anyone refusing to engage with RFK in the specific way he (and they) want, must be a coward or a liar.
Which rather overlooks that people have looked at and engaged with RFK's nonsense for many years, he is just getting more attention now because he is 'running' for President. It doesn't mean no one has every looked at what he says and rebutted before, but that is what the Roganites want to claim, because they are the cool rebels.
The history books bumped Rishi Sunak down a few notches tonight.
He’s now confirmed to be sub-Theresa May.
Whereas May is shaping up to be a rather good ex-PM. She's being given easy material to work with, but she's doing the right things with the right issues. (It's not a crowded field, it has to be said.)
In the same way that everyone has an optimal age, where they are most authentically themselves, I suspect everyone has an optimal stage in their career. Johnson's was probably a young scallywag hack, where terrible behaviour was encouraged, or perhaps Mayor of London, where it didn't matter much. Part of his tragedy (and he is a human being, albeit a terrible one) is that he couldn't stop on those perches.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
Those two philosophies have a habit of winning elections...
Just because you vote for parties that win elections does not make you a true Tory!
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
He only pops up occasionally so his lesser points are more easily looked past. Truss and Boris are still right in the thick of it, and Brown is a bit more frequent with interventions so his detractors get more of a workout. May has actually had a pretty good post premiership, but the sheer chaotic futility of those years will colour things forever.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
He only pops up occasionally so his lesser points are more easily looked past. Truss and Boris are still right in the thick of it, and Brown is a bit more frequent with interventions so his detractors get more of a workout. May has actually had a pretty good post premiership, but the sheer chaotic futility of those years will colour things forever.
Actually I was a big supporter of Cameron, but his emptiness told in the end I guess. Ultimately he was responsible for two things: austerity and Brexit, both of which were big mistakes, with nothing else to make up for them. His corruption post premiership doesn't help his balance sheet.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
He only pops up occasionally so his lesser points are more easily looked past. Truss and Boris are still right in the thick of it, and Brown is a bit more frequent with interventions so his detractors get more of a workout. May has actually had a pretty good post premiership, but the sheer chaotic futility of those years will colour things forever.
Though the futility was more something that was done to May, I doubt anyone could have done significantly better.
As for a leadership leaderboard,
Got on top of the job, until they want mad: Thatcher Blair Wrestled with the job, got some wins before it overwhelmed them: Major Brown Cameron The job beat them before they had a chance: May Sunak Calamitously unsuited: Truss, Johnson (hard to rank, since their terriblenesses were so different)
I'm much more confident about those categories than the ranking within the categories.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
In which case you can also say Heath won from the right in 1970 but lost from the centre in 1974 and 1966
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
Cameron was a decent chairman. We had reasonably stable government from 2010-2015c and some good reform, even if the latter was largely delivered by Lib Dems.
In hindsight, austerity looks ill-conceived, and of course Brexit was a disaster. And Cameron’s contributions since his premiership, such as they are, make him look lazy and venal.
But even with all that, he gets a mid-table position because both May and Brown just governed chaotically.
Both May and Brown are better than Sunak because they will be seen to have had longer premierships and even enjoyed some minor achievements. Sunak’s only record will be one of failing to move the needle post the Johnson-Truss disaster.
The real re-appraisal is Major, who managed to win an election, actually stood up to his own bastards, began the Northern Irish peace process, and bequeathed a growing economy to his successor.
Supporting Kennedy has become a trendy way to signal you have a rebellious streak.
That is obvious from the way others have jumped on the bandwagon, ostensibly not because they are anti-vaccine conspiracists, but because they are posturing as free speech and debate absolutists, and so they can claim anyone refusing to engage with RFK in the specific way he (and they) want, must be a coward or a liar.
Which rather overlooks that people have looked at and engaged with RFK's nonsense for many years, he is just getting more attention now because he is 'running' for President. It doesn't mean no one has every looked at what he says and rebutted before, but that is what the Roganites want to claim, because they are the cool rebels.
Reading the wiki piece he seems an odd mixture, with quite a lot of apparently genuine liberal environmentalism in the style of Gore (who he endorsed), plus the pacifist and anti-corporate themes that have reasonably wide sympathy on the American left. But he adds to that a host of conspiracy theories, notably on vaccines, and has a Trumpian willingness to embrace outright lies to further his argument. The general impression is that he was a mainstream leftist who has in recent years gone bonkers.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
In which case you can also say Heath won from the right in 1970 but lost from the centre in 1974 and 1966
Heath was sick in 1974, with an undiagnosed glandular illness that sapped his energy.
He went to the country because he was fighting the unions, on a platform of "who runs Britain?"
If you want to claim that was "centrist" then you are trying to twist history to match your preconceptions.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
I would likely have abstained like most Tory MPs, if you dislike that off you go to Starmer Labour or the LDs.
Jesus also preached forgiveness, Boris has already been fined, lost the premiership voters gave him a mandate for in 2019 and now even left Parliament too
Boris is a proven liar. "Thou shalt not bear false witness" and all that.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
In which case you can also say Heath won from the right in 1970 but lost from the centre in 1974 and 1966
Heath was sick in 1974, with an undiagnosed glandular illness that sapped his energy.
He went to the country because he was fighting the unions, on a platform of "who runs Britain?"
If you want to claim that was "centrist" then you are trying to twist history to match your preconceptions.
Wilson was clearly more to the left than Heath was to the right in 1974
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
My list would be
Blair (despite Iraq) Thatcher Major Brown May Sunak Cameron Johnson Truss
Surely if you are giving Blair a free pass over Iraq, it is only fair you allow Cameron the EURef. So that leaves Cameron somewhere around Major and Brown. Oh and Johnson is worse even than Truss.
Since you are discussing RFK and vaccines, I have two questions for all of you: Why did it take the Lancet so long to admit their error on the Wakefield piece? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
Did the editor, or anyone else at the magazine, pay an appropriate price for their mistakes?
People died because of that error.
(Full disclosure: Some years ago, I read the original piece -- and was struck by how flimsy it seemed, even to this amateur. I could not understand why it had been published by such a prestigious magazine, which must choose from hundreds -- at a minimum -- of papers every year.)
Since you are discussing RFK and vaccines, I have two questions for all of you: Why did it take the Lancet so long to admit their error on the Wakefield piece? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
Did the editor, or anyone else at the magazine, pay an appropriate price for their mistakes?
People died because of that error.
(Full disclosure: Some years ago, I read the original piece -- and was struck by how flimsy it seemed, even to this amateur. I could not understand why it had been published by such a prestigious magazine, which must choose from hundreds -- at a minimum -- of papers every year.)
I didn't realise it had taken them so long to admit it was a mistake.
These Tories except Bart are happy to tell us how awful BoJo is now. Yet they voted for him and spent years telling us how great he was.
People jump to extremes.
Boris is a flawed individual. We knew that before he became elected.
He has his good traits and he has his bad ones.
People like to act as if politicians are all one or another. Nobody is. Not Boris, not anyone else. He has some very good traits, but he also has a lot of very bad ones too.
I wanted him elected as I thought the potential for his good outweighed his bad, then wanted him gone when I thought the opposite, but it was always a balancing act.
Nothings changed really. Blair was just the same and you still call him great.
Since you are discussing RFK and vaccines, I have two questions for all of you: Why did it take the Lancet so long to admit their error on the Wakefield piece? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
Did the editor, or anyone else at the magazine, pay an appropriate price for their mistakes?
People died because of that error.
(Full disclosure: Some years ago, I read the original piece -- and was struck by how flimsy it seemed, even to this amateur. I could not understand why it had been published by such a prestigious magazine, which must choose from hundreds -- at a minimum -- of papers every year.)
It's an excellent question.
I think the answer is simple: people don't like to admit mistakes.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
In which case you can also say Heath won from the right in 1970 but lost from the centre in 1974 and 1966
Heath was sick in 1974, with an undiagnosed glandular illness that sapped his energy.
He went to the country because he was fighting the unions, on a platform of "who runs Britain?"
If you want to claim that was "centrist" then you are trying to twist history to match your preconceptions.
Anyone to the left of Franco is at most a centrist in his eyes though.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Unmanageable?
All but six MPs voted or abstained to let the repor be accepted.
People are going crazy here acting like anyone who abstained was like Trumpists storming the Capitol on 6 January. In our adversarial Parliamentary system if people from one party abstain while the opposition is voting then that's effectively siding with the opposition by stepping out of their way and letting them win by default.
The number that matters is how many voted against and that was a pathetic, meagre 6.
6 oddballs is perfectly manageable in any party except the Lib Dems.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Unmanageable?
All but six MPs voted or abstained to let the repor be accepted.
People are going crazy here acting like anyone who abstained was like Trumpists storming the Capitol on 6 January. In our adversarial Parliamentary system if people from one party abstain while the opposition is voting then that's effectively siding with the opposition by stepping out of their way and letting them win by default.
The number that matters is how many voted against and that was a pathetic, meagre 6.
6 oddballs is perfectly manageable in any party except the Lib Dems.
I believe the Libdems have 12 oddballs.
Which is actually quite an improvement on the mid 70s, when they went for crooks and paedophiles.
Question about test cricket umpiring: if both teams have used up all their reviews, should the on-field umpires have the choice of asking for a TV replay for close decisions? Because usually if they make a mistake, it'll be corrected by the players asking for a review, or it'll be the players' fault for not calling for a review when they had an opportunity to do so. But with no reviews left for either team, it means by definition there's no chance of the umpire's getting their decisions verified if they think it's too close to call.
Some months ago I noticed that Jago Hazzard (https://www.youtube.com/@JagoHazzard ) used a picture that was credited to you. I meant to tell you but forgot
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Unmanageable?
All but six MPs voted or abstained to let the repor be accepted.
People are going crazy here acting like anyone who abstained was like Trumpists storming the Capitol on 6 January. In our adversarial Parliamentary system if people from one party abstain while the opposition is voting then that's effectively siding with the opposition by stepping out of their way and letting them win by default.
The number that matters is how many voted against and that was a pathetic, meagre 6.
6 oddballs is perfectly manageable in any party except the Lib Dems.
I believe the Libdems have 12 oddballs.
Which is actually quite an improvement on the mid 70s, when they went for crooks and paedophiles.
Most people think that's the Conservative franchise these days.
Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour. That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.
The rest should go, and soon. They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
table That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party
Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values
You and I do not belong in the same party
Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
He voted for Blair twice when almost a third of voters voted Tory, ideologically he is basically New Labour/One Nation Tory
I am a one nation conservative not a little Englander ERG and Johnson sycophant as you seem to be
You are a slightly centre right swing voter, a true Conservative would have voted Tory in 1997 and 2001 as you did not, as well as for Boris in 2019 and Sunak now.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
I simply have no interest in your ridiculous habit of labelling people
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Mostly yes but Thatcher won from the right not the centre from 1979-1987, as arguably did Boris in 2019
I would argue her 1979 manifesto was less right wing than the Selsdon man one from Heath in 1970.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
In which case you can also say Heath won from the right in 1970 but lost from the centre in 1974 and 1966
Heath was sick in 1974, with an undiagnosed glandular illness that sapped his energy.
He went to the country because he was fighting the unions, on a platform of "who runs Britain?"
If you want to claim that was "centrist" then you are trying to twist history to match your preconceptions.
Wilson was clearly more to the left than Heath was to the right in 1974
In the end though, the Barbour boom was a more conventionally left wing policy than the discipline of Denis Healey, albeit that such discipline was imposed by the IMF.
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Supporting Kennedy has become a trendy way to signal you have a rebellious streak.
That is obvious from the way others have jumped on the bandwagon, ostensibly not because they are anti-vaccine conspiracists, but because they are posturing as free speech and debate absolutists, and so they can claim anyone refusing to engage with RFK in the specific way he (and they) want, must be a coward or a liar.
Which rather overlooks that people have looked at and engaged with RFK's nonsense for many years, he is just getting more attention now because he is 'running' for President. It doesn't mean no one has every looked at what he says and rebutted before, but that is what the Roganites want to claim, because they are the cool rebels.
Reading the wiki piece he seems an odd mixture, with quite a lot of apparently genuine liberal environmentalism in the style of Gore (who he endorsed), plus the pacifist and anti-corporate themes that have reasonably wide sympathy on the American left. But he adds to that a host of conspiracy theories, notably on vaccines, and has a Trumpian willingness to embrace outright lies to further his argument. The general impression is that he was a mainstream leftist who has in recent years gone bonkers.
I think it overgenerous to say he's gone bonkers. The antivaxx stuff is a very profitable gig for him, and he's made money on it for years. Cynical liar is more likely than 'bonkers'.
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
He only pops up occasionally so his lesser points are more easily looked past. Truss and Boris are still right in the thick of it, and Brown is a bit more frequent with interventions so his detractors get more of a workout. May has actually had a pretty good post premiership, but the sheer chaotic futility of those years will colour things forever.
Actually I was a big supporter of Cameron, but his emptiness told in the end I guess. Ultimately he was responsible for two things: austerity and Brexit, both of which were big mistakes, with nothing else to make up for them. His corruption post premiership doesn't help his balance sheet.
I’d tend to go with naïveté and greed rather than corruption… but still not a good look for an ex PM
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
He only pops up occasionally so his lesser points are more easily looked past. Truss and Boris are still right in the thick of it, and Brown is a bit more frequent with interventions so his detractors get more of a workout. May has actually had a pretty good post premiership, but the sheer chaotic futility of those years will colour things forever.
Actually I was a big supporter of Cameron, but his emptiness told in the end I guess. Ultimately he was responsible for two things: austerity and Brexit, both of which were big mistakes, with nothing else to make up for them. His corruption post premiership doesn't help his balance sheet.
I’d tend to go with naïveté and greed rather than corruption… but still not a good look for an ex PM
David Cameron's evidence to the Covid Inquiry yesterday was uneventful. Apparently every decision he or his governments reached was correct. Of course, if you'd read his memoirs, you'd know that.
The history books bumped Rishi Sunak down a few notches tonight.
He’s now confirmed to be sub-Theresa May.
Nah. History won’t care about tonight’s vote (or not). It’s a paranthetical remark at most
It’s all a sideshow for political obsessives. It doesn’t matter a hot to most people, I think the mortgage time bomb is of far greater concern and impact to people, along with other issues like cost of living and energy.
The history books bumped Rishi Sunak down a few notches tonight.
He’s now confirmed to be sub-Theresa May.
Nah. History won’t care about tonight’s vote (or not). It’s a paranthetical remark at most
It’s all a sideshow for political obsessives. It doesn’t matter a hot to most people, I think the mortgage time bomb is of far greater concern and impact to people, along with other issues like cost of living and energy.
It does not even matter to Boris Johnson, as he has already left the Commons.
The history books bumped Rishi Sunak down a few notches tonight.
He’s now confirmed to be sub-Theresa May.
Nah. History won’t care about tonight’s vote (or not). It’s a paranthetical remark at most
It’s all a sideshow for political obsessives. It doesn’t matter a hot to most people, I think the mortgage time bomb is of far greater concern and impact to people, along with other issues like cost of living and energy.
It does not even matter to Boris Johnson, as he has already left the Commons.
Thatcher Blair Major Cameron May Brown Sunak Johnson Truss
Is this intended to be for what they did as PM, or across the whole of their political career?
It looks like a really weak list of leaders when you just write it out.
But Thatcher/Blair/Major/Cameron must have been 70%+ so we’ve done ok as a whole
Major and Cameron 70%+ looks generous.
To be clear was meaning that 70% of the time we’ve been led by 1 of those 4 all of whom were ok as PM regardless of your views on their politics
Ah right. I misunderstood. But were they OK? David Cameron was our worst Prime Minister since Lord North. (Boris is sui generis; Liz Truss barely in office.) Cameron lost Europe and would have lost Scotland barring last minute interventions from Gordon Brown and Ruth Davidson. Austerity was at best misguided; NHS reorganisation disastrous; UC undermined by his own Chancellor; student loans; supporting house price inflation. Worst of all, though, is putting his thumb on the scales of democracy.
Comments
Apart from Alex of course.
You are fomenting Tory Civil War!
Carry on. Re double your efforts. Youse out of power for 15 years puts a hearty smile on my raddled fizzog.
The Conservative Party can make Sunak's life hell tomorrow morning.
The rest of us have to wait until he calls a General Election.
Help! I've turned into Leon.
I am utterly appalled at Johnson and his sycophants who are destroying the conservative party and I am certainly more centre left and reject the likes of @HYUFD and the 7 who voted tonight, they sicken me
I am very disappointed in Sunak tonight and have accepted that Starmer is likely to be the next PM but that prospect does not fill me with hope
Especially when there is such a recent example of what happens to parties that have that attitude to voters.
If you're going down, you might as well go down quirky and unconventionally. General Election September? Before the mortgages and continuing below inflation pay settlements kick in.
Accept a close one, rather than a slaughter by playing to the conventional rules.
Can't see a better chance for a win?
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1670782471380647943
If true a big moment for both the public sector and the government
He’s now confirmed to be sub-Theresa May.
Incidentally. No one was content with outing students to parents. Several mentioned it would be a resigning matter.
Thatcher
Blair
Major
Cameron
May
Brown
Sunak
Johnson
Truss
So he didn't vote for the recommendations. Well it went through anyway. He's obviously trying to manage an almost unmanageable party. What else do people expect? I'd suggest history will likely be kinder to him than Johnson, Truss, May or Cameron.
Unbribed, there's no occasion to.
I'll take 10p a post if that isn't pushy.
But that's not much.
Least worst Tory PM of the last three decades.
Some achievement.
Quite simple, 100 of his colleagues managed it.
Not really much noticed at the time (Christmas 21) but for me it was the end of whatever circus tent-show Boris was trying to erect. Only deflation from thereon in.
The same is true of Rishi today.
Whatever he hoped to achieve in office is dead now. He’s missed his opportunity to make his stand and, even with the odds against him, add his contribution to the body politic.
It’s just a grim countdown now until election.
https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1566#noes
Bill Cash
Nick Fletcher
Adam Holloway
Karl McCartney
Joy Morrissey
Heather Wheeler
and 1 unknown..
Supporting Kennedy has become a trendy way to signal you have a rebellious streak.
That is obvious from the way others have jumped on the bandwagon, ostensibly not because they are anti-vaccine conspiracists, but because they are posturing as free speech and debate absolutists, and so they can claim anyone refusing to engage with RFK in the specific way he (and they) want, must be a coward or a liar.
Which rather overlooks that people have looked at and engaged with RFK's nonsense for many years, he is just getting more attention now because he is 'running' for President. It doesn't mean no one has every looked at what he says and rebutted before, but that is what the Roganites want to claim, because they are the cool rebels.
In the same way that everyone has an optimal age, where they are most authentically themselves, I suspect everyone has an optimal stage in their career. Johnson's was probably a young scallywag hack, where terrible behaviour was encouraged, or perhaps Mayor of London, where it didn't matter much. Part of his tragedy (and he is a human being, albeit a terrible one) is that he couldn't stop on those perches.
Just as a true Labour voter would have voted for Corbyn in 2019 and Starmer now. Everyone else is a swing voter of some form
You are a tribal little Englander with nothing in common with me, but it is true to say the conservative party will only ever be in power again when they move to the centre where I stand and utterly reject you and your like views
Blair (despite Iraq)
Thatcher
Major
Brown
May
Sunak
Cameron
Johnson
Truss
Will be based on an old John Lennon demo which, pre-AI, was too messy to use.
A fan has had a go at his own version, which is actually not bad and quite haunting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OwZz26eIBbc
The next tier is right. But I'd put Sunak higher and May lower.
Of course, I'd also like to include Callaghan in there too.
Only one, for example, promised privitisations and trade union reform. And it wasn't Mrs Thatcher's.
Does anyone believe this ?
As for a leadership leaderboard,
Got on top of the job, until they want mad:
Thatcher
Blair
Wrestled with the job, got some wins before it overwhelmed them:
Major
Brown
Cameron
The job beat them before they had a chance:
May
Sunak
Calamitously unsuited:
Truss, Johnson (hard to rank, since their terriblenesses were so different)
I'm much more confident about those categories than the ranking within the categories.
We had reasonably stable government from 2010-2015c and some good reform, even if the latter was largely delivered by Lib Dems.
In hindsight, austerity looks ill-conceived, and of course Brexit was a disaster. And Cameron’s contributions since his premiership, such as they are, make him look lazy and venal.
But even with all that, he gets a mid-table position because both May and Brown just governed chaotically.
Both May and Brown are better than Sunak because they will be seen to have had longer premierships and even enjoyed some minor achievements. Sunak’s only record will be one of failing to move the needle post the Johnson-Truss disaster.
The real re-appraisal is Major, who managed to win an election, actually stood up to his own bastards, began the Northern Irish peace process, and bequeathed a growing economy to his successor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.
He went to the country because he was fighting the unions, on a platform of "who runs Britain?"
If you want to claim that was "centrist" then you are trying to twist history to match your preconceptions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
Did the editor, or anyone else at the magazine, pay an appropriate price for their mistakes?
People died because of that error.
(Full disclosure: Some years ago, I read the original piece -- and was struck by how flimsy it seemed, even to this amateur. I could not understand why it had been published by such a prestigious magazine, which must choose from hundreds -- at a minimum -- of papers every year.)
Boris is a flawed individual. We knew that before he became elected.
He has his good traits and he has his bad ones.
People like to act as if politicians are all one or another. Nobody is. Not Boris, not anyone else. He has some very good traits, but he also has a lot of very bad ones too.
I wanted him elected as I thought the potential for his good outweighed his bad, then wanted him gone when I thought the opposite, but it was always a balancing act.
Nothings changed really. Blair was just the same and you still call him great.
I think the answer is simple: people don't like to admit mistakes.
My list would be.
Thatcher
Cameron
Major
Johnson
Blair
Sunak
May
Truss
Brown
And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
All but six MPs voted or abstained to let the repor be accepted.
People are going crazy here acting like anyone who abstained was like Trumpists storming the Capitol on 6 January. In our adversarial Parliamentary system if people from one party abstain while the opposition is voting then that's effectively siding with the opposition by stepping out of their way and letting them win by default.
The number that matters is how many voted against and that was a pathetic, meagre 6.
6 oddballs is perfectly manageable in any party except the Lib Dems.
Which is actually quite an improvement on the mid 70s, when they went for crooks and paedophiles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1-W-eWX8I
(NLMD, Paris, date unknown)
Britain has fallen six places down the global economic competitiveness rankings, due in part to “government incompetence”
https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1670946191113060352
The antivaxx stuff is a very profitable gig for him, and he's made money on it for years. Cynical liar is more likely than 'bonkers'.
But Thatcher/Blair/Major/Cameron must have been 70%+ so we’ve done ok as a whole