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The summer by-elections: the latest betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited June 2023 in General
imageThe summer by-elections: the latest betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,019
    Firrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssssttttttttttttt
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    I dillied and dallied, dallied and I dillied, and lost first.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    Wisden Cricket

    Runs scored on Day One at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 407

    2023: 407

    Fourth-innings target at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 282

    2023: 281

    Is a heart-stopping England win written in the stars?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    CatMan said:

    Firrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssssttttttttttttt

    But first like whom?

    Somerton looks like a nailed on LD gain to me - as Stephen Bush from FT put it.
    They will absolutely smash it and it won’t be close. a) it’s a by-election b) it’s a seat with a Lib Dem history c) uh, have you seen the i) the circumstances Warburton is standing down in and ii) the state of the country lately?
    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1670178119360081922?cxt=HHwWhMCzwdGJ1a0uAAAA

    Uxbridge looks a classic loss to opposition by-election, so that level of betting would make sense.

    Rishi would take winning 1 of 4, but will hope for 2 I guess.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358


    Is a heart-stopping England win written in the stars?

    No
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @christopherhope
    NEW Government whips are expecting a vote in the House of Commons on the Privileges report into whether Boris Johnson lied to MPs at 9.30pm, MPs tell me.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    Uxbridge and South Ruislip - LAB but may be surprisingly close

    Somerton - probably comfortably LD by 10% +

    Selby - likely CON again might be comfortable

    Mid Beds - probably not happening, if it does then possibly small CON maj
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope
    NEW Government whips are expecting a vote in the House of Commons on the Privileges report into whether Boris Johnson lied to MPs at 9.30pm, MPs tell me.

    Do they still have to go through both lobbies in order to register an absention?

    Asking for around 150 Tory MPs looking to take the second most cowardly way out.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip - LAB but may be surprisingly close

    Somerton - probably comfortably LD by 10% +

    Selby - likely CON again might be comfortable

    Mid Beds - probably not happening, if it does then possibly small CON maj

    I think Mid Beds will still happen, and when it does, it will be a LibDem gain.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,025

    Wisden Cricket

    Runs scored on Day One at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 407

    2023: 407

    Fourth-innings target at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 282

    2023: 281

    Is a heart-stopping England win written in the stars?

    Well I've been thinking that.
    It's been very close throughout. Hasn't really swung wildly from one team to another the way close test matches can - all the way through both teams have been about par. Looking like a victory between a handful of runs or a couple of wickets.
    That said, it could be entirely washed out looking at the forecast.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip - LAB but may be surprisingly close

    Somerton - probably comfortably LD by 10% +

    Selby - likely CON again might be comfortable

    Mid Beds - probably not happening, if it does then possibly small CON maj

    My inexpert guess would be had Boris stood Con might have had a decent showing in Uxbridge, one last rally behind their man. With him out the way and everyone predicting a Lab gain, the stay at home factor might be enormous.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited June 2023
    I think England are probably 20 runs short, but happy to be disproved tomorrow.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
    I do spare a thought for them: I was chronically crocked (could not walk at times) between the ages of 13 and 25. It's why I'm keen not to stress times - in that "I ran a 10K in 45 minutes!" (*), but just that I did the distance.

    The external competitive aspect of leisure running is utterly counter-productive IMO. If you are an amateur you are not competing against others; you are competing against yourself.

    My son is now at just under 70 junior parkruns. He's not won a single one, and has been at the back on two occasions when the field has been sparse. But he turns up week after week and plods away. I'm prouder of him than if he had turned up for 5 and won 2.

    We all do what we can. we cannot all be record breaker, but they key thing is to stretch yourself in whatever ways you can; physically or mentally.

    (*) Which I never have.
    I get that up to a point. I would like to be able to earn points for my club in the leagues in which we compete, but I'm just too heavy to be sufficiently competitive even at a fairly low level (there are good reasons why 14st blokes don't do well in distance racing...) So, in my case it really is pretty much me versus myself when I'm trying for some sort of time - which makes setbacks ever so frustrating.

    And my 10K PB is also over 45 minutes - though not by that much... I still harbour fantasies of breaking that particular barrier, but it is somewhat contingent on my body not starting to disintegrate again before I can manage it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    Andy_JS said:

    I think England are probably 20 runs short

    Epic declaration...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    edited June 2023
    Rishi should be more like Stokes and declare/call a GE - even if he loses it would be entertaining.

    Otherwise it'll be Borisians resigning from now until Autumn 2024, lost by election after lost by election.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @PaulBrandITV
    NEW: As MPs debate his behaviour, Boris Johnson is attending the International Democratic Union reception tonight.

    Sources say while there he criticised the privileges committee as “biased and wilfully ignorant” and added that “there is always another innings”.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Scott_xP said:

    @PaulBrandITV
    NEW: As MPs debate his behaviour, Boris Johnson is attending the International Democratic Union reception tonight.

    Sources say while there he criticised the privileges committee as “biased and wilfully ignorant” and added that “there is always another innings”.

    Translation - they disagreed with me.

    Amazing how the classics always work though - those who find against me are biased, therefore to be ignored. And to think they end up supproted by talentless yes men.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
    I do spare a thought for them: I was chronically crocked (could not walk at times) between the ages of 13 and 25. It's why I'm keen not to stress times - in that "I ran a 10K in 45 minutes!" (*), but just that I did the distance.

    The external competitive aspect of leisure running is utterly counter-productive IMO. If you are an amateur you are not competing against others; you are competing against yourself.

    My son is now at just under 70 junior parkruns. He's not won a single one, and has been at the back on two occasions when the field has been sparse. But he turns up week after week and plods away. I'm prouder of him than if he had turned up for 5 and won 2.

    We all do what we can. we cannot all be record breaker, but they key thing is to stretch yourself in whatever ways you can; physically or mentally.

    (*) Which I never have.
    I get that up to a point. I would like to be able to earn points for my club in the leagues in which we compete, but I'm just too heavy to be sufficiently competitive even at a fairly low level (there are good reasons why 14st blokes don't do well in distance racing...) So, in my case it really is pretty much me versus myself when I'm trying for some sort of time - which makes setbacks ever so frustrating.

    And my 10K PB is also over 45 minutes - though not by that much... I still harbour fantasies of breaking that particular barrier, but it is somewhat contingent on my body not starting to disintegrate again before I can manage it.
    IMV the problem with external competition is that it is a *massive* barrier to the majority. If he only thing that counts is beating everyone else, then only a few people will ever try. If what matters is beating yourself (calm down, Leon...) then that is a challenge many of us can take on.

    I'll never be the 'best' long-distance walker. I'll never be the fastest runner. But I'm proud of what I've achieved in both those areas, even if those achievements mean sod-all to anyone else, and on their own may seem slightly pathetic. I've challenged myself and done well - and mostly enjoyed it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Uxbridge is a fantastic bet. Tories just 10% chance but their candidate is a local South Ruislip councillor while the Labour candidate is a Camden councillor. It also has a big Hindu vote and the council stayed Tory last year.

    Somerton and Frome almost certain to go LD, Selby correctly forecast to be neck and neck between Tories and Labour (I expect the Tories to scrape home). Mid Beds if Dorries steps down likely goes LD like Somerton, forecast correct there too
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    Leon said:

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done.

    I thought it was blocked by the blob...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    kle4 said:

    Rishi should be more like Stokes and declare/call a GE - even if he loses it would be entertaining.

    Otherwise it'll be Borisians resigning from now until Autumn 2024, lost by election after lost by election.

    Are there enough left? Seriously.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Rishi should be more like Stokes and declare/call a GE - even if he loses it would be entertaining.

    Otherwise it'll be Borisians resigning from now until Autumn 2024, lost by election after lost by election.

    Are there enough left? Seriously.
    For a handful of further by-elections? Possibly, from those who can claim they are just bowing out and not 'intending' to damage the PM.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done.

    I thought it was blocked by the blob...
    It was when it is convenient.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done.

    I thought it was blocked by the blob...
    No, we have definitely Brexited, as 7,398 articles in the Guardian about New Brexit Tariffs on Semi Processed Cashew Crisps, or the 19 day long queues for Brits at Malaga airport, constantly tell us

    So, what is Starmer's equivalent? What is his USP? What will he get done? Drastically repair or reform? I cannot see it as of now. but I am - genuinely - happy to be schooled. This guy, after all, is likely to be our PM for four-five years, minimum
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Michael Fabricant MP: "Some people are terrified that Boris Johnson might become an MP again and might actually be prime minister again".

    https://twitter.com/mori_tories/status/1670872910662184964
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Rishi should be more like Stokes and declare/call a GE - even if he loses it would be entertaining.

    Otherwise it'll be Borisians resigning from now until Autumn 2024, lost by election after lost by election.

    Are there enough left? Seriously.
    For a handful of further by-elections? Possibly, from those who can claim they are just bowing out and not 'intending' to damage the PM.
    Of course, if someone thinks there is no chance of reelection, then jacking it in [edit] earlym, before the GE, would lose the redundo. Quite a sacrifice, unless one is very well off. Or there is a Good Fairy in the background, of course.

    https://www.theipsa.org.uk/freedom-of-information/2017-18/cas-80614

    "Under reforms introduced in 2013[1], MPs will be eligible to receive a Loss of Office payment if they lose their seat at a general election. The amount of the Loss of Office payment will be equal to double the statutory redundancy entitlement.

    MPs are only eligible for such payments if they have held office for a continuous period of at least two years, stand for re-election but are not re-elected. MPs who choose to stand down prior to an election are not entitled to any payment."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @GdnPolitics
    11s
    Timid Rish! goes missing in action in face of Boris Johnson’s lies

    https://twitter.com/GdnPolitics/status/1670883162183049217
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    Andy_JS said:

    Michael Fabricant MP: "Some people are terrified that Boris Johnson might become an MP again and might actually be prime minister again".

    https://twitter.com/mori_tories/status/1670872910662184964

    Too right!

    But I am thinking that wiggy doesn't perhaps yet understand why?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates

    Robert Kennedy is also 'anti big oil and big Pharma' and supports AOC's Green New Deal, backs Senator Warren's wealth tax proposals and opposed the Iraq War and NATO involvement in Ukraine.

    On some policies Kennedy is not far off Jeremy Corbyn and his anti vax policies are certainly something Piers Corbyn would approve of
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    edited June 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Michael Fabricant MP: "Some people are terrified that Boris Johnson might become an MP again and might actually be prime minister again".

    https://twitter.com/mori_tories/status/1670872910662184964

    So what if they are? What does that have to do with sanctioning him for misleading parliament?

    If he's so bloody great he can come back from that.

    But if he is that bloody great, then he's not stupid enough to have inadvertently misled parliament, so it must have been intentional.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Wisden Cricket

    Runs scored on Day One at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 407

    2023: 407

    Fourth-innings target at Edgbaston in...

    2005: 282

    2023: 281

    Is a heart-stopping England win written in the stars?

    We look to have set a target a run short.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Saka hat-trick
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544
    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    It's a good question. I'd like to imagine there will be some grand achievement, but to be honest if they just fund the schools properly and fund the Bakerloo Line extension I'll be grateful. I would guess though that there will be a significant improvement in the quality of governance if we no longer have people in charge pandering to the worst instincts of the country's most ignorant and wrong-headed people. Imagine if the government's first thought was no longer "will this be popular with a Daily Mail reading pensioner who collects golliwogs in their spare time and thinks that global warming is a woke conspiracy" every time they came to make a policy decision.
    Oh, and hopefully a referendum on EEA membership in the second term, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Has there been a younger hat-trick scorer for us?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates

    I'm struggling to understand how anyone but a mentally challenged wombat could endorse him.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813
    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Let's not get carried away. Remember that this is a team that managed to get through an entire tournament without conceding a goal - and still contrived to lose the final in yet another penalty shootout. They've an immense talent for finding inventive ways not to win stuff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates

    I'm struggling to understand how anyone but a mentally challenged wombat could endorse him.
    Kennedy is already picking up much of the support for Bernie Sanders in the 2020 and 2016 Democratic primaries as the candidate of the US populist left
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    I was at Edgbaston on Friday and have been glued to this Test since.

    The forecast is interesting. We might only get three hours play tomorrow, with the Aussies maybe in and out between showers.

    That would appear to favour us in what would otherwise be a 50/50 shout IMO.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    It's a good question. I'd like to imagine there will be some grand achievement, but to be honest if they just fund the schools properly and fund the Bakerloo Line extension I'll be grateful. I would guess though that there will be a significant improvement in the quality of governance if we no longer have people in charge pandering to the worst instincts of the country's most ignorant and wrong-headed people. Imagine if the government's first thought was no longer "will this be popular with a Daily Mail reading pensioner who collects golliwogs in their spare time and thinks that global warming is a woke conspiracy" every time they came to make a policy decision.
    Oh, and hopefully a referendum on EEA membership in the second term, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
    My concern is that Labour administration will just result in the same rotten old system managed less incompetently, with the ongoing rot artfully disguised with a smattering of additional wind turbines. I wait to be proven wrong, but not with much hope.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    'The mayor of Keighley has resigned after being criticised for describing his attendance at a Pride event as a "lapse in judgement".

    In a Facebook post, Mohammed Nazam said his participation had contradicted his "personal religious beliefs".

    He was suspended by the Conservative group on Bradford Council once his comments came to light and later announced he would quit as mayor.

    In a statement he said he "did not mean any harm to the LGBTQ community".

    He said he intended to carry on as an Independent councillor, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

    In his post, on a page called Keighley Pakistanis, Mr Nazam said: "I wholeheartedly apologise for my participation in the flag-raising ceremony, as it contradicts my personal religious beliefs, as many of you are aware."

    He said he had since "personally repented for this error," adding: "Looking back, I realise that I should have respectfully declined the request at the time."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65954361
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates

    I'm struggling to understand how anyone but a mentally challenged wombat could endorse him.
    That’s a double digit percentage of American voters in the bag, then.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I'm not Labour, so eff knows.
    But if they go large on their council planning
    powers policy, and get hundreds of thousands of homes built by local authorities, then I will be pleasantly surprised.

    It's one thing which financial constraints wouldn't prevent or downsize, unlike much of their wish list, and it would be a big deal.
    Just needs political will.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
    Weaker, Wokier opposition

    In all seriousness, if they can't win it with this squad, then we might as well Cancel English Football. From Saka, to Bellingham, to Kane, to Rashford, to Alexander-Arnold, to Boden, to Grealish - they really should win, or come extremely close

    France are fading, a little. Spain Germany and Italy are all middling-good, Dutch could be a threat mebbes
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Let's not get carried away. Remember that this is a team that managed to get through an entire tournament without conceding a goal - and still contrived to lose the final in yet another penalty shootout. They've an immense talent for finding inventive ways not to win stuff.
    Fake news
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Scott_xP said:

    @PaulBrandITV
    NEW: As MPs debate his behaviour, Boris Johnson is attending the International Democratic Union reception tonight.

    Sources say while there he criticised the privileges committee as “biased and wilfully ignorant” and added that “there is always another innings”.

    Not for the first team, there isn't.
    Second string gigs from now on, mate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    Dilute Brexit, expand the public sector and tax the rich and corporations a bit more, stand up for Wokeism and migrants.

    Ed Miliband as Shadow Climate Secretary will also push Net Zero hard if he becomes Environment Secretary and Labour has already said it will ban further exploration for gas and oil and ban new coal mines
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    Dilute Brexit, expand the public sector and tax the rich a bit more, stand up for Wokeism and migrants.

    Ed Miliband as Shadow Climate Secretary will also push Net Zero hard if he becomes Environment Secretary and Labour has already said it will ban further exploration for gas and oil and ban new coal mines
    Well, where are the differences with current Conservative policy, a bit of woke-bashing more or less?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,069
    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    A fascinating question. It is hard to imagine trickier circumstances for a new administration. Sir K is rightly not promising the earth. I am not a Labourite but will vote for them this time for the simple reason that only Tory or Labour can lead a government, and the Tories need time to rethink what it might mean to be a servant government with integrity and honour. So Labour it must be.

    I expect by 2028/9 there to be almost no (average) greater prosperity under Labour. Tax and spend will remain at Tory levels at least, mostly out of necessity.

    Six areas I hope will make some limited progress:

    1) The level of integrity in government
    2) Administrative competence
    3) Moving towards either a Swiss style or EFTA relationship with the EU
    4) A rational policy on migration and housing, where we stop the policies of wanting both fewer and more houses built, and fewer and more migrants.
    5) Moves away from the plethora of policies which assist the super rich
    6) Policies towards making the NHS non reliant on stealing staff from very poor countries, thus making a bad situation for them worse, and doing the opposite.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I expect the Starmer government to be deliberately technocratic. Lots of house building. Quite strong on crime and justice. Not so strong on health and education. Some more help for families, but not enough. Will have an industrial policy.Continuity on fiscal, foreign and defence policy.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
    Weaker, Wokier opposition

    In all seriousness, if they can't win it with this squad, then we might as well Cancel English Football. From Saka, to Bellingham, to Kane, to Rashford, to Alexander-Arnold, to Boden, to Grealish - they really should win, or come extremely close

    France are fading, a little. Spain Germany and Italy are all middling-good, Dutch could be a threat mebbes
    Boden ? I always saw Southgate as an M&S man.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    A fascinating question. It is hard to imagine trickier circumstances for a new administration. Sir K is rightly not promising the earth. I am not a Labourite but will vote for them this time for the simple reason that only Tory or Labour can lead a government, and the Tories need time to rethink what it might mean to be a servant government with integrity and honour. So Labour it must be.

    I expect by 2028/9 there to be almost no (average) greater prosperity under Labour. Tax and spend will remain at Tory levels at least, mostly out of necessity.

    Six areas I hope will make some limited progress:

    1) The level of integrity in government
    2) Administrative competence
    3) Moving towards either a Swiss style or EFTA relationship with the EU
    4) A rational policy on migration and housing, where we stop the policies of wanting both fewer and more houses built, and fewer and more migrants.
    5) Moves away from the plethora of policies which assist the super rich
    6) Policies towards making the NHS non reliant on stealing staff from very poor countries, thus making a bad situation for them worse, and doing the opposite.
    Wealth tax to fund god knows what
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    Dilute Brexit, expand the public sector and tax the rich a bit more, stand up for Wokeism and migrants.

    Ed Miliband as Shadow Climate Secretary will also push Net Zero hard if he becomes Environment Secretary and Labour has already said it will ban further exploration for gas and oil and ban new coal mines
    Well, where are the differences with current Conservative policy, a bit of woke-bashing more or less?
    Sunak and Hunt are capping public spending even if they reversed Truss and Kwarteng's tax cuts for the rich and corporations, Starmer and Miliband will also oppose new coal mines and new oil unlike this government but like the SNP. Starmer will also allow more building on the greenbelt than Sunak would and he could face a rare Tory-LD alliance again in opposition to a Labour government on that.

    They will also align more to EU regulations and take us at least closer to the May Deal rather than the Boris Deal and then if they win a second term likely push to join the EEA and if they win a third term maybe even to rejoin the full EU again too
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    edited June 2023
    Bulld Back Better / Green New Deal / Housing
    New Deal with Europe closer to EEA
    Standards in public life
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I expect the Starmer government to be deliberately technocratic. Lots of house building. Quite strong on crime and justice. Not so strong on health and education. Some more help for families, but not enough. Will have an industrial policy.Continuity on fiscal, foreign and defence policy.
    Sounds about right, though not sure what “not so strong on health” means.

    I think the idea is to invest in health tech in a more concerted fashion to drive up NHS productivity which as even Jeremy Hunt has noticed, is in steep decline. I expect a return to Blairite targets too, which,..actually worked.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still trying to understand how Jack Dorsey can have decided to endorse Robert Kennedy for president, given their respective views on the pandemic, vaccines, etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Declared_major_candidates

    Because Biden REALLY pissed Dorsey off somehow? Or/and Dorsey REALLY wants to suck up to Trump?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @gavinesler
    This could have been @RishiSunak ‘s big moment - standing up for decency and personal responsibility. If he can’t do that he should make way for someone who can.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601

    I was at Edgbaston on Friday and have been glued to this Test since.

    The forecast is interesting. We might only get three hours play tomorrow, with the Aussies maybe in and out between showers.

    That would appear to favour us in what would otherwise be a 50/50 shout IMO.

    Yes England slight favourites at this stage. Even without weather considerations it is difficult to get another 170 when 3 wickets down in a 4th innings on Day 5.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,753
    HYUFD said:

    'The mayor of Keighley has resigned after being criticised for describing his attendance at a Pride event as a "lapse in judgement".

    In a Facebook post, Mohammed Nazam said his participation had contradicted his "personal religious beliefs".

    He was suspended by the Conservative group on Bradford Council once his comments came to light and later announced he would quit as mayor.

    In a statement he said he "did not mean any harm to the LGBTQ community".

    He said he intended to carry on as an Independent councillor, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

    In his post, on a page called Keighley Pakistanis, Mr Nazam said: "I wholeheartedly apologise for my participation in the flag-raising ceremony, as it contradicts my personal religious beliefs, as many of you are aware."

    He said he had since "personally repented for this error," adding: "Looking back, I realise that I should have respectfully declined the request at the time."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65954361

    i dont see the problem - attendance at Pride events is not compulsory even for mayors . Therefore by definition everyone uses their judgement about whether to go . Cancel culture is ridiculous
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @RealStephenKerr

    The Scottish Conservatives have called a Vote of No Confidence in Green Minister Lorna Slater.

    This will be a test of MSP honesty. Because no one with eyes to see or ears to hear could believe Lorna Slater is fit for the role she holds.

    Let's see who supports it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    HYUFD said:

    'The mayor of Keighley has resigned after being criticised for describing his attendance at a Pride event as a "lapse in judgement".

    In a Facebook post, Mohammed Nazam said his participation had contradicted his "personal religious beliefs".

    He was suspended by the Conservative group on Bradford Council once his comments came to light and later announced he would quit as mayor.

    In a statement he said he "did not mean any harm to the LGBTQ community".

    He said he intended to carry on as an Independent councillor, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

    In his post, on a page called Keighley Pakistanis, Mr Nazam said: "I wholeheartedly apologise for my participation in the flag-raising ceremony, as it contradicts my personal religious beliefs, as many of you are aware."

    He said he had since "personally repented for this error," adding: "Looking back, I realise that I should have respectfully declined the request at the time."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65954361

    i dont see the problem - attendance at Pride events is not compulsory even for mayors . Therefore by definition everyone uses their judgement about whether to go . Cancel culture is ridiculous
    True but I think his phrase 'lapse in judgement' caused the problem.

    Does show like Kate Forbes however strict Muslims have the same potential clash of culture with LGBT activists as evangelical Christians like Forbes or strict Roman Catholics
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I expect the Starmer government to be deliberately technocratic. Lots of house building. Quite strong on crime and justice. Not so strong on health and education. Some more help for families, but not enough. Will have an industrial policy.Continuity on fiscal, foreign and defence policy.
    Sounds about right, though not sure what “not so strong on health” means.

    I think the idea is to invest in health tech in a more concerted fashion to drive up NHS productivity which as even Jeremy Hunt has noticed, is in steep decline. I expect a return to Blairite targets too, which,..actually worked.
    It's big, difficult, and most importantly, expensive.
    Fiscal constraints are likely to make big policy achievements hard. I'm willing to be surprised (and hope I am), but I suspect improvements might not be massive.

    Technology is great - but do they have the ability to make it transformative ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Bulld Back Better / Green New Deal / Housing
    New Deal with Europe closer to EEA
    Standards in public life

    So some three-word slogans then.

    Inspiring stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Apparently in addition to his more eye catching conspiracies RFK is a believer in the 'Boris Johnson forced Ukraine to extend the war' conspiracy.

    It's a joke, but why isn't this guy running as a Trumpist Republican? He genuinely seems like he would do well there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    kle4 said:

    Apparently in addition to his more eye catching conspiracies RFK is a believer in the 'Boris Johnson forced Ukraine to extend the war' conspiracy.

    It's a joke, but why isn't this guy running as a Trumpist Republican? He genuinely seems like he would do well there.

    It nicely mirrors the centrist conspiracy theorists who are convinced that Boris Johnson is an agent of Putin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    Apparently in addition to his more eye catching conspiracies RFK is a believer in the 'Boris Johnson forced Ukraine to extend the war' conspiracy.

    It's a joke, but why isn't this guy running as a Trumpist Republican? He genuinely seems like he would do well there.

    As he is anti big oil, pro a wealth tax and opposed the Iraq War.

    As I said earlier Robert Kennedy Jnr is not a million miles from Corbyn on some policies, indeed on foreign policy (pro Putin, anti Iraq War and anti NATO) and lockdowns and vax Corbynites and Trumpites are closer to each other than the UK and US political establishment
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
    To be fair, Wokery has finally gone off the boil this year - crippled by ludicrous ultra-liberal overreach and a half-decent opposition put up (finally) by many, including the Tories, capitalising on public scepticism more widely.

    That hasn't happened "naturally" but because a resistance was put up to what was argued to be progressive inevitability- a salutary lesson to those that think the tide of history only marches one way: it doesn't.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,753
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The mayor of Keighley has resigned after being criticised for describing his attendance at a Pride event as a "lapse in judgement".

    In a Facebook post, Mohammed Nazam said his participation had contradicted his "personal religious beliefs".

    He was suspended by the Conservative group on Bradford Council once his comments came to light and later announced he would quit as mayor.

    In a statement he said he "did not mean any harm to the LGBTQ community".

    He said he intended to carry on as an Independent councillor, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

    In his post, on a page called Keighley Pakistanis, Mr Nazam said: "I wholeheartedly apologise for my participation in the flag-raising ceremony, as it contradicts my personal religious beliefs, as many of you are aware."

    He said he had since "personally repented for this error," adding: "Looking back, I realise that I should have respectfully declined the request at the time."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65954361

    i dont see the problem - attendance at Pride events is not compulsory even for mayors . Therefore by definition everyone uses their judgement about whether to go . Cancel culture is ridiculous
    True but I think his phrase 'lapse in judgement' caused the problem.

    Does show like Kate Forbes however strict Muslims have the same potential clash of culture with LGBT activists as evangelical Christians like Forbes or strict Roman Catholics
    not sure why "lapse in judgment " means anything damming either tbh. If he means it conflicts with his religious views then he is being honest , not hateful to anyone. I dont go to Pride events as well because I dont think they are necessary and are generally too hyped up- - are we not allowed to say we dont want to go to Pride events or regret going to them ? This country get more daft every day
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    DIVISION!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
    Weaker, Wokier opposition

    In all seriousness, if they can't win it with this squad, then we might as well Cancel English Football. From Saka, to Bellingham, to Kane, to Rashford, to Alexander-Arnold, to Boden, to Grealish - they really should win, or come extremely close

    France are fading, a little. Spain Germany and Italy are all middling-good, Dutch could be a threat mebbes
    This Scot is quite pleased that they are keeping up with Scotland on the qualification front.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Scott_xP said:

    DIVISION!

    Too late. That’s the final whistle.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092
    7-0!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    edited June 2023

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I expect the Starmer government to be deliberately technocratic. Lots of house building. Quite strong on crime and justice. Not so strong on health and education. Some more help for families, but not enough. Will have an industrial policy.Continuity on fiscal, foreign and defence policy.
    Sounds about right, though not sure what “not so strong on health” means.

    I think the idea is to invest in health tech in a more concerted fashion to drive up NHS productivity which as even Jeremy Hunt has noticed, is in steep decline. I expect a return to Blairite targets too, which,..actually worked.
    What I mean is that Labour policies in areas they are most interested in are extensive, comprehensive and specific. On that basis Labour are most interested in house building, industrial policy, crime and justice, data regulation.and to some extent family policy, procurement and asylum policy.

    Policies are skimpy and formulaic in areas they are not interested in such as foreign policy and constitutional affairs. They don't say too much about health. Train 10 000 nurses (everyone says that), move to more technology and focus on primary care. But they don't flesh these last two out, so suspect they may not get a lot of priority. Maybe I'm wrong on that and they will be quite radical. Also on transport.


    https://labourlist.org/2023/05/labour-manifesto-2024-election-what-policies-npf-party/
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    edited June 2023
    Gibberish
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    You can get England as third faves to win, at 6/1

    https://www.oddschecker.com/football/euro-2024/euro/winner

    With the talent surging through the England squad I suggest this is VALUE (and I nearly always advise against betting ON England: the patriotic punter warps the market)

    But this is real. England possess an excess of exuberant talent; can Gareth finally unlock it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @KevinASchofield
    now
    BREAKING: MPs vote by 354 to 7 to back the privileges committee's report which found Boris Johnson guilty of repeatedly misleading MPs over partygate.

    It means he will be stripped of his ex-MP's parliamentary pass.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @euanmccolm

    seven? dopey, sleazy, shifty, creepy, thicko, crooked, and duck.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    The 7 MPs should resign and fight by-elections. Scum.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Which Tories voted for, and which against?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092

    The 7 MPs should resign and fight by-elections. Scum.

    7-0? :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092
    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 out of 650 is still a majority of MPs.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Which Tories voted for, and which against?
    Which hunt on

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Which Tories voted for, and which against?
    Rees Mogg and Cash definitely voted against, Nicci, Fletcher and Jake Berry too. May, Mordaunt, Lewis and Seely definitely for
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Cowardly, but not unexpected - it means Boris and his cohorts can pretend to have significant parliament support they just saw no point in going along with the process, and the rest of the party get a quiet life (from their fellow Tory MPs at least) by not 'humiliating' Boris, and even the anti-Boris ones can claim later it was all a Labour plot if they want.

    That is so many that it was definitely an unofficial whip situation though, so a bit too obvious - there are sufficient numbers of open Boris critics, and defenders, to have had way more back or reject the report, so an order was given here since no way they all independently decided that was the best move.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The mayor of Keighley has resigned after being criticised for describing his attendance at a Pride event as a "lapse in judgement".

    In a Facebook post, Mohammed Nazam said his participation had contradicted his "personal religious beliefs".

    He was suspended by the Conservative group on Bradford Council once his comments came to light and later announced he would quit as mayor.

    In a statement he said he "did not mean any harm to the LGBTQ community".

    He said he intended to carry on as an Independent councillor, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

    In his post, on a page called Keighley Pakistanis, Mr Nazam said: "I wholeheartedly apologise for my participation in the flag-raising ceremony, as it contradicts my personal religious beliefs, as many of you are aware."

    He said he had since "personally repented for this error," adding: "Looking back, I realise that I should have respectfully declined the request at the time."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65954361

    i dont see the problem - attendance at Pride events is not compulsory even for mayors . Therefore by definition everyone uses their judgement about whether to go . Cancel culture is ridiculous
    True but I think his phrase 'lapse in judgement' caused the problem.

    Does show like Kate Forbes however strict Muslims have the same potential clash of culture with LGBT activists as evangelical Christians like Forbes or strict Roman Catholics
    not sure why "lapse in judgment " means anything damming either tbh. If he means it conflicts with his religious views then he is being honest , not hateful to anyone. I dont go to Pride events as well because I dont think they are necessary and are generally too hyped up- - are we not allowed to say we dont want to go to Pride events or regret going to them ? This country get more daft every day
    I think what's really undone this gentleman is the flip-flopping. If he'd decided either to stay away or to defend his presence he'd probably have been fine, but the U-turn has behind it the implication that he was embarrassed into this grovel by co-members of his own sect, and that's fatal in a secular society.

    Personally I find it hard to have much sympathy for believers in the various omnipotent sky beings in any situation such is that, but then I'm one of the gays and they've been shitting on us for thousands of years - and continue to do so everywhere on Earth where they still enjoy real power.

    At the end of the day, if people feel that they have to surrender public office because the alternative is to compromise on their religious convictions, then so be it. That's infinitely preferable to holders of public office having the ability to inflict those beliefs on everyone else.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Which Tories voted for, and which against?
    Rees Mogg and Cash definitely voted against, Nicci, Fletcher and Jake Berry too. May, Mordaunt, Lewis and Seely definitely for
    At least some with courage of their convictions then. Abstention is always an option, to be sure, but I do think it generally needs to be justified, and the milquetoast objections to the report being harsh, or the criticism of Boris as having done wrong, have been too prominent for that many of the rest to not be able to come down on one side or another.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    Presumably they think lying to the Commons is acceptable behaviour. Note and move on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    "This shows it was all a remainer plot against me" rails Boris in his next column.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Lib Dem focus leaflets highlighting the abstention of the local MP being mass-printed across the shires as we speak.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    Seven dwarfs? (Actually, doesn't really mean 9, as No side would have 2 tellers?)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Red wall Tory MPs turn yellow.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,022
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
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