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The summer by-elections: the latest betting – politicalbetting.com

24

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Lib Dem focus leaflets highlighting the abstention of the local MP being mass-printed across the shires as we speak.
    Precisely so.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    I sort of find it disappointing with the arcane traditions of the House that abstention doesn't literally involve MPs being made to sit on a fence somewhere in the Commons.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Not sure but maybe
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited June 2023
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Question for Labourite PB-ers.
    You guys are gonna win in 2024 (I think win pretty big, as the Scots punish the Nats). And good luck o you, the Tories had 13 years and blew it, on the whole

    So: what could a Starmer government do, what WILL a Starmer government do, that will make you profoundly grateful for a Labour government at last?

    I don't mean "just not being Tories" or "kissing goodbye to Jacob Rees Mogg", I mean positive things that you expect Labour to do, which will benefit the country

    eg Boris Johnsin can say, of his 2019 election, he Got Brexit Done. You may loathe and despise Brexit, but with his big majority Boris finally got the will of people enacted, thereby saving our reputation for democracy - or, indeed, democracy - and a lot of people voted for him to do exactly that. And he did it

    What will be the Starmerite equivalent? I am intrigued

    I expect the Starmer government to be deliberately technocratic. Lots of house building. Quite strong on crime and justice. Not so strong on health and education. Some more help for families, but not enough. Will have an industrial policy.Continuity on fiscal, foreign and defence policy.
    Sounds about right, though not sure what “not so strong on health” means.

    I think the idea is to invest in health tech in a more concerted fashion to drive up NHS productivity which as even Jeremy Hunt has noticed, is in steep decline. I expect a return to Blairite targets too, which,..actually worked.
    What I mean is that Labour policies in areas they are most interested in are extensive, comprehensive and specific. On that basis Labour are most interested in house building, industrial policy, crime and justice, data regulation.and to some extent family policy, procurement and asylum policy.

    Policies are skimpy and formulaic in areas they are not interested in such as foreign policy and constitutional affairs. They don't say too much about health. Train 10 000 nurses (everyone says that), move to more technology and focus on primary care. But they don't flesh these last two out, so suspect they may not get a lot of priority. Maybe I'm wrong on that and they will be quite radical. Also on transport.


    https://labourlist.org/2023/05/labour-manifesto-2024-election-what-policies-npf-party/
    They do have a reasonably worked through
    set of policies. They don’t pretend to be transformative. Certainly yet.

    The trouble for Labour is that the bar for winning an election is different from the Tories because they are not the “default” party of government.

    The Labour test is “can you transform the country for the better?” If not, then the Tories get back in.

    The Tory test is “are you not completely incompetent and malevolent?” If so, then you get in.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2023
    More Conservative MPs voted in support of Margaret Ferrier than in support of Boris Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/scott_wortley/status/1670895943107870722?s=46
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Doubt it. Pairs require someone of another party to pair with; they're for whipped votes which this wasn't.

    At least I think that's correct.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Yes.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    I await the Mail and Telegraph headlines: The Magnificent Seven.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    I sort of find it disappointing with the arcane traditions of the House that abstention doesn't literally involve MPs being made to sit on a fence somewhere in the Commons.

    On this particular vote sitting on the tip of Penny Mordaunt’s simple sword of truth would have been most appropriate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Lib Dem focus leaflets highlighting the abstention of the local MP being mass-printed across the shires as we speak.
    Not all, they can't do that in Theresa May or Greg Clark's constituencies for example, they can in Hunt's and Redwood's however
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,956

    Leon said:

    England are embarrassingly overblessed with footballing talent

    I would have them as favourites for the euros 24

    Not fatally stifled by Woke?
    To be fair, Wokery has finally gone off the boil this year - crippled by ludicrous ultra-liberal overreach and a half-decent opposition put up (finally) by many, including the Tories, capitalising on public scepticism more widely.

    That hasn't happened "naturally" but because a resistance was put up to what was argued to be progressive inevitability- a salutary lesson to those that think the tide of history only marches one way: it doesn't.
    Afaics here that means only the Tories and their fans in the press; that's currently not giving a huge longevity vibe to the counter revolution. As for antiwoke defender of Judeo Christian family values Putin..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @paulwaugh

    Just seven MPs backed @BorisJohnson, opposing Privileges Cttee censure over his misleading Parliament.
    No wonder he asked them to stay away.
    7 feels even more humiliating than motion going through with no opposition.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Sunak's fence-sitting throughout today is a fucking disgrace.
    Just saying.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Sunak's fence-sitting throughout today is a fucking disgrace.
    Just saying.

    He’s a cowardly 🔔 end.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Yes.
    Pairing only makes sense if they disagree. Was Rishi going to vote against?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    Bulld Back Better / Green New Deal / Housing
    New Deal with Europe closer to EEA
    Standards in public life

    You cannot seriously be suggesting that 'Green New Deal' is a viable policy. Spending even more of the public's non-existent money on Net Zero stuff to make us an 'energy superpower'? If this were even possible (spoiler, it isn't), could others with more money not just do it better and faster than us anyway?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    More Conservative MPs voted in support of Margaret Ferrier than in support of Boris Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/scott_wortley/status/1670895943107870722?s=46

    Which is amusing, but we can be sure more would have done so for Boris, which is why there was obvious coordination to mass abstain instead, in order to push down the total number (We didn't vote to save him!) for the price of not embarrassing him with the number who would vote against him (We didn't vote to punish him!).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    354 is bigger than 289+7.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    Not votes against either, are they?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Not sure but maybe
    Obviously not. They would have voted the same way.
    Weird move by Starmer. But then the football was on.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Sathnam

    Boris Johnson got fewer votes than he has alleged children.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    No, but you know very well how votes are counted. If there were 5 votes for, 2 against, and 623 abstentions, it would pass despite the 'majority'.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Sunak is the worst PM since well, the last one.

    He is a coward and a snake. He deserves to be voted out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Steven_Swinford
    now
    Breaking:

    118 Tory MPs voted in favour of the Privileges Committee’s damning report into Boris Johnson

    Just seven votes against

    The rest stayed away
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Of the 365 Conservative MPs elected in 2019, I currently make it that 58 won't be contesting their successor seats (following the boundary review) as sitting Conservatives at the next general election.

    With more still to follow, that's already quite a dent for a governing party. Relatively few of those seats can be regarded as safe on present polling. Given the electoral advantages of incumbents, now lost, it will make the difference between the Conservatives successfully defending and losing in a handful of seats at the GE.

    Breakdown:
    40 sitting as Conservatives have announced they are standing down at the GE
    3 now sitting as Independents (Hancock, Knight, Pincher) have announced that they are standing down at the GE
    1 was expelled then defected (Bridgen)
    1 defected (Wakeford)
    2 did not win selection for successor seats (Drummond, Hudson)
    1 jumped ship to a more winnable seat (Hughes)
    3 have just resigned causing pending by-elections (Johnson, Adams, Warburton)
    1 has announced that she will either resign or will stand down so having yet to decide is not yet included in the 40 above (Dorries)
    3 resigned in disgrace (Paterson, Khan, Parish) and the by-election was lost
    1 died and the by-election was lost (Gillan)
    2 died and the by-election was defended (Amess, Brokenshire)

    The net loss of Conservative incumbents is 55 not 58 as the last two above have been replaced with new incumbents and the Conservatives also gained Hartlepool. The net loss will go down further if they successfully defend any of the pending by-elections, although with only a year to go any incumbency bonus for a new MP would be modest.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    SKY News leading on the Titanic submersible, NOT on Boris vote!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    now
    Breaking:

    118 Tory MPs voted in favour of the Privileges Committee’s damning report into Boris Johnson

    Just seven votes against

    The rest stayed away

    Ah, a twist - they didn't even have the balls to positively abstain, just stay at home and watch the tv?

    So around 1/3 of the party are anti Boris, 2/3 a combination of pro-Boris and 'leave me alone I just want to lose my seat in peace'.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Today was Rishi Sunak’s Mitch McConnell moment when he failed to convict in the second Trump impeachment.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    SKY News leading on the Titanic submersible, NOT on Boris vote!

    Both sunk.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Delighted to say Aaron Bell voted the right way.

    Attaboy, Aaron
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    BBC 10 news has a stunning report from the front line by the intreped Quentin Somerville
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick Gibb
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    The Tories are officially dead as a party. Time to start again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @MattChorley
    30s
    After all that; she didn’t vote against the report?

    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1670902509886423043
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    225 conservative abstentions and 18 Labour plus 10 independents

    And my apologies as Keir Starmer voted yes having returned from Scotland

    Sunak really has missed an opportunity to move the dial
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    It doesn't reflect particularly well on the abstainers either.
    Sunak should have voted but I understand Starmer abstained as well which is strange
    Were they paired?
    Not sure but maybe
    Obviously not. They would have voted the same way.
    Weird move by Starmer. But then the football was on.
    Seems Starmer did vote having returned from Scotland
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Leon said:

    You can get England as third faves to win, at 6/1

    https://www.oddschecker.com/football/euro-2024/euro/winner

    With the talent surging through the England squad I suggest this is VALUE (and I nearly always advise against betting ON England: the patriotic punter warps the market)

    But this is real. England possess an excess of exuberant talent; can Gareth finally unlock it?

    It would be more appropriate to ask: "Can Gareth finally fail to f**k it up?"
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    Indeed.
    Sunak is a twat. Fuck him he's finished.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Scott_Wortley

    More Conservative MPs voted in support of Margaret Ferrier than in support of Boris Johnson.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    Which Tories voted for, and which against?
    Rees Mogg and Cash definitely voted against, Nicci, Fletcher and Jake Berry too. May, Mordaunt, Lewis and Seely definitely for
    That’s not what the BBC are reporting.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    edited June 2023

    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.

    What about just, Sunak is a prick, how's that
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @ionewells

    The big four offices of state: PM, Deputy PM, Foreign Sec and Home Sec all abstained.

    Think a high chance that comes up next time each of them faces a grilling in parliament.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    Certainly appears that Boris Johnson's 11th-hour appeal to his (theoretical) phalanx of die-hard BJers, to NOT vote against the report, was pretty pathetic effort to cover up (actual) paucity of his remaining parliamentary support.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    East Yorkshire councillor and miner's daughter Claire Holmes has been selected for Selby and Ainsty to be the Conservatives by election candidate
    https://conservativehome.com/2023/06/19/candidate-warburton-resigns-holmes-replaces-naughton-in-selby-and-ainsty-and-hughes-is-selected-for-pinchers-seat-of-tamworth/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    225 conservative abstentions and 18 Labour plus 10 independents

    And my apologies as Keir Starmer voted yes having returned from Scotland

    Sunak really has missed an opportunity to move the dial
    Is division list posted yet?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2023
    hahahahahahahahahahaha not Boris Johnson having to go through the peasant entrance and airport security if he ever wants to go back into Parliament

    https://twitter.com/tarajaneoreilly/status/1670904859124457474?s=46
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    225 conservative abstentions and 18 Labour plus 10 independents

    And my apologies as Keir Starmer voted yes having returned from Scotland

    Sunak really has missed an opportunity to move the dial
    Is division list posted yet?
    Yes
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited June 2023

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    As are you though he is far more polite
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,956

    SKY News leading on the Titanic submersible, NOT on Boris vote!

    SOS
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    225 conservative abstentions and 18 Labour plus 10 independents

    And my apologies as Keir Starmer voted yes having returned from Scotland

    Sunak really has missed an opportunity to move the dial
    Is division list posted yet?
    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1566
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    East Yorkshire councillor and miner's daughter Claire Holmes has been selected for Selby and Ainsty to be the Conservatives by election candidate
    https://conservativehome.com/2023/06/19/candidate-warburton-resigns-holmes-replaces-naughton-in-selby-and-ainsty-and-hughes-is-selected-for-pinchers-seat-of-tamworth/

    "And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed: pure West Virginia. What is your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamp?"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Interesting exercise, to compare the results of THIS division, with one in early May 1940, which saw Boris Johnson's alleged hero, Winston Churchill, voting (in effect) FOR a failed, discredited, unpopular soon-to-be former Conservative Prime Minister.

    Neville Chamberlain actually WON that division, with way more Tory MPs in his favor, and far fewer absentions.

    Truly, the Worm of History has turned.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Opinion | Biden isn’t far enough left for me. So in the 2024 Democratic primary, I’m supporting the anti-vaccine, anti-immigrant, pro-Putin candidate who is backed by right-wing billionaires.
    https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1670829073738747906
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
    Thanks for confirming that Tory party members lack a moral compass.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    edited June 2023
    If the HoC website is to be believed, it was actually only 6 Boris Backers, plus two Labour tellers;



    Shame really. Seven is so much more evocative a number.

    Envy, gluttony, avarice, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath...


  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    As are you though he is far more polite
    Yeah picked up my pay cheque this morning, they might pay you if anything you wrote was interesting
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Cyclefree said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    Indeed.
    It is bad politics. It is bad ethically. And it shows an impressive lack of a sense of self-preservation.

    Sunak really is a very poor politician.
    I've been saying since early 2020, he is thoroughly overrated.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    354 MPs for the Boris report, so a narrow majority in favour but most Tory MPs abstained and did not vote for it and 7 Conservative MPs even voted against the report

    354 to 7 a narrow majority only in your mind

    Abstentions are exactly that and the 7 against are dinosaurs
    The 289 abstentions, almost all Tory MPs, were not votes for the Boris report though
    You are grasping at straws if you think almost any would have voted for your malign hero
    225 conservative abstentions and 18 Labour plus 10 independents

    And my apologies as Keir Starmer voted yes having returned from Scotland

    Sunak really has missed an opportunity to move the dial
    He didn't have any good options, given the bitter and rancrous state of the party. But he still managed to select (and seekingly push onto the majority of the PCP) probably the worst option.

    Has there ever been a PM with a nominally comfortable majority as weak as Rishi?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    Indeed.
    Sunak is a twat. Fuck him he's finished.
    You have a lot of anger issues.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    Opinion | Biden isn’t far enough left for me. So in the 2024 Democratic primary, I’m supporting the anti-vaccine, anti-immigrant, pro-Putin candidate who is backed by right-wing billionaires.
    https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1670829073738747906

    Horseshoe theory accrues more supporting evidence every day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Cyclefree said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    Indeed.
    It is bad politics. It is bad ethically. And it shows an impressive lack of a sense of self-preservation.

    Sunak really is a very poor politician.
    Might have made a decent Deputy PM - work up some detail, occasionally do some light cover for the PM, but not the one coming up with ideas or driving decisions.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    Cheap shot from one of the more partisan posters on the site. You may not agree with his view, but you don’t have to immune his motives.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
    That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party

    Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values

    You and I do not belong in the same party
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    Opinion | Biden isn’t far enough left for me. So in the 2024 Democratic primary, I’m supporting the anti-vaccine, anti-immigrant, pro-Putin candidate who is backed by right-wing billionaires.
    https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1670829073738747906

    RFK, Jr = Ye of 2024

    Recruited and funded to take a little hide off Biden, starting in primaries and into the 2024 general.

    When even a mickle like (Kanye>) Kennedy might just muck up a tight POTUS race?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,956

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    Cheap shot from one of the more partisan posters on the site. You may not agree with his view, but you don’t have to immune his motives.
    I'm sure his motives have been vaccinated
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    I think he's trying to thread this needle.

    Hacker: It doesn't do the government any good to look heartless and feeble simultaneously.

    Woolley: Perhaps you could arrange it so you only look heartless and feeble alternately?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    As are you though he is far more polite
    Yeah picked up my pay cheque this morning, they might pay you if anything you wrote was interesting
    You make my point for me
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Sunak in Bozo's pocket.

    Pathetic.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
    Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch, Patel and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
    That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party

    Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values

    You and I do not belong in the same party
    I would likely have abstained like most Tory MPs, if you dislike that off you go to Starmer Labour or the LDs.

    Jesus also preached forgiveness, Boris has already been fined, lost the premiership voters gave him a mandate for in 2019 and now even left Parliament too
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Disgraceful shambles.
    Time for a change.
    Couldn't be worse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
    Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
    You said earlier that the membership will see to it that all those who abstained will not represent their seat at the next GE

    None of these will be allowed to stand then
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    Cheap shot from one of the more partisan posters on the site. You may not agree with his view, but you don’t have to immune his motives.
    Everyone here is partisan, what a nonsense point. I note you're here to jump on when you fancy
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    nico679 said:

    Starmer did vote. Sunak just looks spineless .

    Indeed.
    Sunak is a twat. Fuck him he's finished.
    You have a lot of anger issues.
    I wasn't able to visit my dying aunt.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    As are you though he is far more polite
    Yeah picked up my pay cheque this morning, they might pay you if anything you wrote was interesting
    You make my point for me
    The point is that you're a prat. Yes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Opinion | Biden isn’t far enough left for me. So in the 2024 Democratic primary, I’m supporting the anti-vaccine, anti-immigrant, pro-Putin candidate who is backed by right-wing billionaires.
    https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1670829073738747906

    Horseshoe theory accrues more supporting evidence every day.
    Au contraire.
    It's not a horseshoe. It's a circle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
    Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
    You said earlier that the membership will see to it that all those who abstained will not represent their seat at the next GE

    None of these will be allowed to stand then
    Some of the 118 who voted for the report in very pro Boris seats in Brexit areas will face deselection attempts yes, those in Remain seats targeted by the LDs will likely survive to be candidates at the next election at least
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
    Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
    You said earlier that the membership will see to it that all those who abstained will not represent their seat at the next GE

    None of these will be allowed to stand then
    Are we in for another evening of @HYUFD twisting and turning as he awaits the official CCHQ response?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    I guess Sunak fears his own party more than he fears the voters.

    Which is interesting at a couple of levels. His party is genuinely terrifying. And he's given up on the voters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Theresa May next!

    Will vote in favour; commends the committee. Looks like she is taking on the challenge of rising above the minutiae…

    “debate strikes at the heart of the bond of trust between the public and this parliament”

    Tobias Elwood intervenes to indicate his support.

    May: “with leadership comes responsibility….”

    Yes, May just confirmed she will vote in favour of the report condemning Boris.

    I am sure the former PM will enjoy every moment of it too!
    And so she should. Amuses me that Johnson expected loyalty to him but has never shown loyalty to anyone else, including his own family
    Loyalty to people is a mugs' game. You're just giving them license to use you as a doormat. If you ever face a choice between abandoning a well-thought-out principle at the request of a person, treat the person as though they've been grooming you. Otherwise you'll be left clearing up the mess they caused you to make, looking like a twat because you knew better but did the wrong thing anyway.
    Okay not implying any judgement here..I have always assumed you to be fairly left wing. Is not what you are saying pretty right wing here....loyalty to self over loyalty to the collective. I am genuinely asking because to me left wing thought is you dont matter and you should subjugate what you want for the greater good?
    I'm not left wing, I'm a centrist liberal. Some of my beliefs fit well with the left and some of the fit well with the right.

    There are two reasons why I often get mistaken for a lefty. One is that I desperately want the Tories out, but that's mainly an issue over standards in public life and the illiberal lurch they have embodied in recent years. I want the sensible people to take over again. The other reason is because I'm a constitutional radical. I don't believe in hierarchies, religion, monarchy, or generational inequality. I think people should be allowed to get rich through hard work or brilliance, and not through rentier capitalism and being born into the right class or caste.

    Having said all that the idea you raise, of submitting to the collective, isn't just a left wing idea. It's a feature of some left wing thought, certainly. It's a feature of the authoritarian right and fascism, too. It's present in some forms of nationalism. I find all that stuff a bit distasteful. Yes, we are social beings, but all relationships should be voluntary and everyone should have the means and opportunity to shut other people out (almost) whenever they need to. I think this kind of individualism underpins liberalism, it's sort of a core assumption insofar as I understand liberalism, and I would encourage people to try to free themselves of relationship types that bind them into doing things that conflict with their own sense of right and wrong.
    You are Ed Miliband on economics and foreign policy, Jeremy Corbyn on the constitution and social issues basically
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting that over 100 Tories did vote in favour.
    That needs to be the rump upon which the Tories regroup.

    The rest should go, and soon.
    They simply don’t understand how to uphold parliamentary democracy.

    Some of them will lose their seats to LDs and Labour. The Tory membership will ensure most likely anyone who voted for the report to convict Boris will lose to a leadership candidate who abstained
    That is your wish and clearly you are seeking the destruction of the conservative party

    Your lack of support for honesty integrity and decency are the exact opposite of your so called Christian values

    You and I do not belong in the same party
    Indeed, I have long wondered why you are in the Tory party G as you don’t present as in the least bit rightwing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    19s
    Tory ministers who voted in favour of Privileges Committee report included:

    Penny Mordaunt
    Alex Chalk
    Simon Hart
    Gillian Keegan
    Tom Tugendhat
    Chris Philp
    George Freeman
    Steve Baker
    Ed Argar
    Nick G
    Jesse Norman
    Guy Opperman
    Paul Scully
    Rebecca Pow
    Lee Rowley


    Who is missing from this list....

    A fair number of Tory MPs from Remain seats there with the LDs breathing down their necks like Pow, Chalk and Scully (plus May of course), Simon Hart, Lee Rowley. Chris Philp and Steve Baker in marginal seats Labour are targeting.

    Mordaunt and Tugendhat position themselves as anti Boris candidates in the likely next Tory leadership contest if Rishi loses next year
    Weren’t Mordaunt and Tugendhat your favoured candidates for leader after Boris resigned?
    Then Sunak, now however I would make Barclay (who abstained tonight) the likely favourite to beat either of the above in the final round to become Tory Leader of the Opposition. Assuming Sunak loses the general election next year. Badenoch and Braverman also abstained and will compete to be the ERG candidate
    You said earlier that the membership will see to it that all those who abstained will not represent their seat at the next GE

    None of these will be allowed to stand then
    How often do candidates fail to get reselected? How many have already been reselected? The chances of being punished by their local parties looks rather remote, even if the stereotype that all constituency parties are made up of nothing but extreme right wingers were true.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    So, what was Dorries’ excuse?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    Serious.

    Seriously?

    Let's bring this one back.


    If you did the same poster with Sunak it would risk looking racist.
    Seriously??
    William is just here to spin for his paymasters
    As are you though he is far more polite
    Yeah picked up my pay cheque this morning, they might pay you if anything you wrote was interesting
    You make my point for me
    The point is that you're a prat. Yes.
    Grow up and add to discussion rather than throw abuse to all and sundry as you have done today

    It is rather sad you feel the need to respond the way you do at times
This discussion has been closed.