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The by-election betting – a LAB gain and CON hold – politicalbetting.com

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.
  • I avoid Mail at all costs but I would use an ad blocker.

    Some would use it as a colonic blocker.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    More interesting than the begging is the request for you to share, and the Guardian to use your data in exactly the same way as the Guardian, amongst others, excoriated Cambridge Analytica for doing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    If you're interested in the conventions, then say you'll vote for whichever party has the most accessible website immediately before the next GE. ;)

    A few GE ago (2015?) I reviewed all the major party websites for accessibility. Annoyingly, I cannot remember which was best.

    Accessibility matters, and it's annoying when political parties do not make their sites as accessible as possible.
    Hear hear.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    If you're interested in the conventions, then say you'll vote for whichever party has the most accessible website immediately before the next GE. ;)

    A few GE ago (2015?) I reviewed all the major party websites for accessibility. Annoyingly, I cannot remember which was best.

    Accessibility matters, and it's annoying when political parties do not make their sites as accessible as possible.
    Labour’s is not very accessible if that’s what you’re asking me
    It is a metaphor for how everything will be after they have been in power for a few years
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Intel Set to Gain $11 Billion Subsidy for German Chip Plant
    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/intel-set-gain-11-billion-205155868.html

    We have a bizarre 21st century capitalism where firms make money not by developing superior products but by playing states off against each other for higher and higher subsidies.
    Strategic industries.
    Far better value bunging a few billion at a high end chip plant, or a couple of gigafactories, than building a couple of carriers which don't work.
    Unless Germany's grabbing the IP too what value do they bring?
    If you have a chip industry - which Germany still does - then there's significant value in having critical mass.
    Engineers trained on leading edge processes; local supply chains (both customers and suppliers); R&D happening locally etc.
    And remember Intel will be spending a couple of times that much to build it, and a fair amount of that subsidy will be in the form of tax breaks rather than cash.

    What value does The Prince of Wales in dry dock bring ?
    Intel's approach to building fabs has been "copy exactly" so unless a fab is at the very bleeding edge you don't necessarily get all the high-paying jobs and expertise, you get the engineers repeating work that was done elsewhere, and then they disappear.

    I expect that Intel comes under a LOT of pressure to keep the "secret sauce" in the US.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Cookie said:

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    Do elucidate? Which conventions, and why is it doing it on purpose?
    It’s doing it on purpose because it’s annoyances make you want to complain - it is is quite ingenious marketing.
    It is annoying how, quite often, their articles occupy about 20% of the screen, with adverts and videos taking up the rest of it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Blimey is it Smooth Radio all the way for you?

    Are you really saying you have no interest whatsoever in Minor Celebrity A's Beach Ready Body??

    I find that difficult to believe.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    If you're interested in the conventions, then say you'll vote for whichever party has the most accessible website immediately before the next GE. ;)

    A few GE ago (2015?) I reviewed all the major party websites for accessibility. Annoyingly, I cannot remember which was best.

    Accessibility matters, and it's annoying when political parties do not make their sites as accessible as possible.
    Labour’s is not very accessible if that’s what you’re asking me
    Yeah, but it wasn't a party-political point. Neither had the Conservatives' site, last time I checked (a year or so ago now). But it matters, and I'd like to think the political parties thought so too.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited June 2023

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Reminds me of the A4 Pacific* steam locomotives. More nipples than you could imagine existed, but all hidden under a 1930s style screeen.

    Edit: or the Coronation Class for those that way inclined.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Cookie said:

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    Do elucidate? Which conventions, and why is it doing it on purpose?
    It would like to break the ECHR because it has the bogey word European in it and most of its readership is so thick it believes that is part of the EU (the ECHR not the Daily mail)
    They hate it, except when they use it!

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/27/daily-mail-parent-company-invokes-human-rights-act-to-stop-naming-of-journalists
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    TOPPING said:

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Blimey is it Smooth Radio all the way for you?

    Are you really saying you have no interest whatsoever in Minor Celebrity A's Beach Ready Body??

    I find that difficult to believe.
    I do too. @Gardenwalker strikes me as a left leaning version of a reactionary gammon. Angry about everything he doesn't approve of, which is pretty much everything lol.
  • TOPPING said:

    Do we really have to go over this again? Jeez. OK well here we go:

    Media outlets only make money because people consume the contents. If they didn't like the contents (Socialist Worker, Railways Today*) then they would not buy or consume the contents and that media's presence would be tiny and insignificant.

    It is not "The Mail" or "The Telegraph" or "The Right Wing Media". It is the consumers of it all.

    *have not looked into the circulation figures of Railways Today.

    Railways Today is frequently cancelled and/or arrives in the shop too late to be of any use.
    I didn't realise cancel culture was now hitting trainspotters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,374

    Priceless. The "DM" have mainly edited comments on Boris's appointment in a slant to include the most favourable, but the readers' votes on those comments are still negative ; they'll have to nobble the votes next, if they want to complete anything like efficient propaganda.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12202525/Mail-unveils-Boris-Johnson-new-columnist.html#comments

    That’s hardly unusual for any media organisation though.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited June 2023
    Taz said:

    Priceless. The "DM" have mainly edited comments on Boris's appointment in a slant to include the most favourable, but the readers' votes on those comments are still negative ; they'll have to nobble the votes next, if they want to complete anything like efficient propaganda.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12202525/Mail-unveils-Boris-Johnson-new-columnist.html#comments

    That’s hardly unusual for any media organisation though.
    No indeed. What's funny here, though, is that their readers seem to be very clearly against both the balance of the way they've edited the comments, and the appointment itself.

    Look at the balance of good to bad comments, and then the best and worst-rated comments. More nobbling work to do on the votes if they want to make it look convincing, as I mentioned ;;.) !
  • TOPPING said:

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Blimey is it Smooth Radio all the way for you?

    Are you really saying you have no interest whatsoever in Minor Celebrity A's Beach Ready Body??

    I find that difficult to believe.
    I've recently started to listening to Smooth if I'm not streaming something, when I'm driving. Its quite pleasant to listen to, good music which is what I want to listen to when I'm driving normally.

    I used to listen to Century, which became Real, which became Heart but recently they've become completely taken over with pushing "call now to win thousands of pounds" competitions and it was irritating me so I switched to Smooth. Same company and they have some competitions too, but its not all they talk about like it is lately on Heart.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited June 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher
    👀 Boris Johnson is mulling over running as an independent for the London mayoralty next year, hears @CamCavendish

    Johnson’s spox declines to comment, so not ruling out…

    @jamesjohnson252
    11m
    Views of Boris Johnson amongst Londoners - @JLPartnersPolls

    Positive: 15%
    Negative: 67%

    Net score -52 (compared to -45 nationally)

    @robfordmancs

    That's an odd decision.

    He'd be better off trying to get back to Henley, or somewhere similarly congenial to him.
    Suburban Outer London, especially the more Leave and anti ULEZ parts are probably more congenial to Boris than increasingly LD Henley now.

    Indeed even if Boris doesn't beat Khan as an Independent, if he beats Sunak's official Tory candidate (as well as the LD and Green candidates) and comes second in the now FPTP London Mayoral elections he would get some satisfaction from that
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    Taz said:

    Priceless. The "DM" have mainly edited comments on Boris's appointment in a slant to include the most favourable, but the readers' votes on those comments are still negative ; they'll have to nobble the votes next, if they want to complete anything like efficient propaganda.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12202525/Mail-unveils-Boris-Johnson-new-columnist.html#comments

    That’s hardly unusual for any media organisation though.
    BBC Scotland used to switch off all the comments completely on its Scottish independence debate pieces back in the 2008-2014 period (roughly) as the commenters were too informed and too critical - not far off PB standard at times. The culprit was obvious, as analogous pieces by BBC London HQ were never censored in that way.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited June 2023

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    At the moment you would say England are 140 light of a good score, and the batting after these two is less than formidable.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023
    TOPPING said:

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Blimey is it Smooth Radio all the way for you?

    Are you really saying you have no interest whatsoever in Minor Celebrity A's Beach Ready Body??

    I find that difficult to believe.
    I honestly have very little interest in Minor Celebrity A’s Beach Ready Body. For starters, I no longer really know who any of the celebrities are.

    I posted my media subs upthread. My media diet includes PB of course, and Twitter. Occasionally I read an article in the Atlantic, New Statesman, Prospect, or the New Left Review.

    Most right-leaning organs are unredeemed shite, I eschew them on quality grounds. Occasionally there is something good in Quillette or Unherd (I’m not sure if the latter is right-leaning, but it feel it’s more right than left).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Priceless. The "DM" have mainly edited comments on Boris's appointment in a slant to include the most favourable, but the readers' votes on those comments are still negative ; they'll have to nobble the votes next, if they want to complete anything like efficient propaganda.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12202525/Mail-unveils-Boris-Johnson-new-columnist.html#comments

    That’s hardly unusual for any media organisation though.
    BBC Scotland used to switch off all the comments completely on its Scottish independence debate pieces back in the 2008-2014 period (roughly) as the commenters were too informed and too critical - not far off PB standard at times. The culprit was obvious, as analogous pieces by BBC London HQ were never censored in that way.
    Crawler...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,374

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Indeed your first sentence is right not just about Mail readers but also those who froth about it and get angry about it.

    I read the Thisismoney site and that’s all. The mail is not going to be my cup of tea so I don’t need to read it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Intel Set to Gain $11 Billion Subsidy for German Chip Plant
    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/intel-set-gain-11-billion-205155868.html

    We have a bizarre 21st century capitalism where firms make money not by developing superior products but by playing states off against each other for higher and higher subsidies.
    Strategic industries.
    Far better value bunging a few billion at a high end chip plant, or a couple of gigafactories, than building a couple of carriers which don't work.
    Unless Germany's grabbing the IP too what value do they bring?
    If you have a chip industry - which Germany still does - then there's significant value in having critical mass.
    Engineers trained on leading edge processes; local supply chains (both customers and suppliers); R&D happening locally etc.
    And remember Intel will be spending a couple of times that much to build it, and a fair amount of that subsidy will be in the form of tax breaks rather than cash.

    What value does The Prince of Wales in dry dock bring ?
    Intel's approach to building fabs has been "copy exactly" so unless a fab is at the very bleeding edge you don't necessarily get all the high-paying jobs and expertise, you get the engineers repeating work that was done elsewhere, and then they disappear.

    I expect that Intel comes under a LOT of pressure to keep the "secret sauce" in the US.
    Intel is playing catchup with the Asian manufacturers, and some of the key technology for the industry (the ASML kit) is partly European anyway.
    These investments are about keeping Europe in the game.

    https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/15/intel-plans-to-build-a-19-billion-chip-plant-in-germany/
    ...Intel says the dual plants will build chips using its top-of-the-line Angstrom-era transistor tech. It expects to create 7,000 construction jobs for the duration of the build, 3,000 permanent positions and thousands more jobs across partners and suppliers.

    Elsewhere, Intel will invest another €12 billion ($13 billion) to expand a factoryin Leixlip, Ireland. It will double the manufacturing space and expand foundry services there. The company’s also in discussions with Italy to build an assembly and packing facility there at a cost of up to €4.5 billion ($4.9 billion).

    Intel plans to build its European research and development hub near Plateau de Saclay, France. It expects to create 1,000 jobs as a result, with 450 of those opening up by the end of 2024. Intel aims to set up its main European foundry design center in France too. Further investments are earmarked for Poland and Spain.

    The company says the plan is “centered around balancing the global semiconductor supply chain with a major expansion of Intel’s production capacities in Europe.” In February, the European Union announced a $49 billion effort to prevent future chip shortages and reduce reliance on parts manufactured in Asia.

    “The EU Chips Act will empower private companies and governments to work together to drastically advance Europe’s position in the semiconductor sector,” Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger said. “This broad initiative will boost Europe’s R&D innovation and bring leading-edge manufacturing to the region for the benefit of our customers and partners around the world.”..
  • Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    Russia would still be wrecked even if they were sending in T-800s.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/16/direct-action-uk-policies-deportations-to-jamaica

    Interesting - like the Colston statue trial, the jury found the deportation blockers not guilty.

    I hadn't realised the Gmt had tried to use am unusual charge with a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,082
    I feel like Bazball, on days it does not work so much, is a lot like modern politics - very furiously paced and a lot of aggravation, to end up with similar outcomes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Finally.

    Rip-off food and drink prices at railway stations are being investigated by regulators amid fears retailers are forcing passengers to pay extortionate amounts for everyday essentials.

    Rail passengers, already suffering after a year of disruption from strikes, are spending more than £1bn every year on everything from bottled water to burgers.

    The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) said that “preliminary research and investigations” had identified significantly higher prices in stations compared to the high street.

    The regulator has now launched a full investigation into how passengers are paying over the odds.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/16/rail-station-prices-investigated-food-drink-ripoff/

    This is simply the time-cost-quality triangle in action. You're at the station, you want a snack now, you pay more for a Ginster's pasty from WH Smith. You want to pay less, arrive earlier, walk up the Tesco in town and buy it there. You want quality, you go to Greggs on the way.
    There are more Greggs shops in Zone 1 than I thought!
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&q=greggs+liverpool+street&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjtopPikMj_AhUJQ0EAHXRyAW8QtgN6BAgSEAc#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[51.5354222,-0.0419943],[51.5025708,-0.14842909999999998]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
    I have now found two vantage points in Leeds city centre from which you can see two branches of Greggs at the same time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,082
    eristdoof said:

    Never heard of this Hovis ad, I must be too young

    You are! Its a timeless classic.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=6Mq59ykPnAE

    Also spoofed by the Two Ronnies, but you won't have heard of them either...
    I know who they are but don't find them funny whatsoever.
    The Two Ronnies were wierd. There were some really good sketches, often based around clever word play especially from Barker. The "Four Candles" sketch is a good example of the good side. But they also did loads and loads of dross.
    I knew there was trouble when I got the box set for a relative, and saw how much content it was claimed was in there versus the stuff that people reference a lot - the ratio was clearly not good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    More interesting than the begging is the request for you to share, and the Guardian to use your data in exactly the same way as the Guardian, amongst others, excoriated Cambridge Analytica for doing.
    All ‘news’ websites are now firmly in the private browsing sandbox category for me, with the ad-blocker on. The tracking is insidious, including cross-site tracking.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Priceless. The "DM" have mainly edited comments on Boris's appointment in a slant to include the most favourable, but the readers' votes on those comments are still negative ; they'll have to nobble the votes next, if they want to complete anything like efficient propaganda.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12202525/Mail-unveils-Boris-Johnson-new-columnist.html#comments

    That’s hardly unusual for any media organisation though.
    BBC Scotland used to switch off all the comments completely on its Scottish independence debate pieces back in the 2008-2014 period (roughly) as the commenters were too informed and too critical - not far off PB standard at times. The culprit was obvious, as analogous pieces by BBC London HQ were never censored in that way.
    Crawler...
    Puns not so good, though the understanding of Scots was far superior ('loon' and 'haver' being properly used, for instance).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They are utterly obsessed.

    But inconsistently so: where there is anything which hints at slavery (like ships, or statues of black people) we should remove them; where there is anything which fails to mention slavery (like a cruise on Lake Windermere full of people enjoying themselves) we should ensure that slavery is mentioned.

    They are utterly barking mad.

    (The ships are there because of Manchester's role as a port - may seem contrived now, but back then it was the third biggest port in the country).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    Do elucidate? Which conventions, and why is it doing it on purpose?
    It’s doing it on purpose because it’s annoyances make you want to complain - it is is quite ingenious marketing.
    It is annoying how, quite often, their articles occupy about 20% of the screen, with adverts and videos taking up the rest of it.
    I genuinely can't credit anyone wanting to spend a single second of their time on earth consuming the drivel on there. Especially since, as you say, the presentation of said drivel is so busy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,082

    I’m a software engineer, specialising in web engineering.

    The Daily Mail site breaks every single convention there is. On purpose

    If you're interested in the conventions, then say you'll vote for whichever party has the most accessible website immediately before the next GE. ;)

    A few GE ago (2015?) I reviewed all the major party websites for accessibility. Annoyingly, I cannot remember which was best.

    Accessibility matters, and it's annoying when political parties do not make their sites as accessible as possible.
    I gave the Green Party some credit when their manifesto had working hyperlinks in it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They are utterly obsessed.

    But inconsistently so: where there is anything which hints at slavery (like ships, or statues of black people) we should remove them; where there is anything which fails to mention slavery (like a cruise on Lake Windermere full of people enjoying themselves) we should ensure that slavery is mentioned.

    They are utterly barking mad.

    (The ships are there because of Manchester's role as a port - may seem contrived now, but back then it was the third biggest port in the country).
    The ship on the Man City logo looks like a tea clipper to me.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    edited June 2023

    Finally.

    Rip-off food and drink prices at railway stations are being investigated by regulators amid fears retailers are forcing passengers to pay extortionate amounts for everyday essentials.

    Rail passengers, already suffering after a year of disruption from strikes, are spending more than £1bn every year on everything from bottled water to burgers.

    The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) said that “preliminary research and investigations” had identified significantly higher prices in stations compared to the high street.

    The regulator has now launched a full investigation into how passengers are paying over the odds.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/16/rail-station-prices-investigated-food-drink-ripoff/

    This is simply the time-cost-quality triangle in action. You're at the station, you want a snack now, you pay more for a Ginster's pasty from WH Smith. You want to pay less, arrive earlier, walk up the Tesco in town and buy it there. You want quality, you go to Greggs on the way.
    There are more Greggs shops in Zone 1 than I thought!
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&q=greggs+liverpool+street&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjtopPikMj_AhUJQ0EAHXRyAW8QtgN6BAgSEAc#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[51.5354222,-0.0419943],[51.5025708,-0.14842909999999998]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
    I have now found two vantage points in Leeds city centre from which you can see two branches of Greggs at the same time.
    Well done! For a real challenge, can you find anywhere in the Toon where you can't?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    I raise you, Thomas the Tank Engine is (insert every -ist) article....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
  • dixiedean said:

    Finally.

    Rip-off food and drink prices at railway stations are being investigated by regulators amid fears retailers are forcing passengers to pay extortionate amounts for everyday essentials.

    Rail passengers, already suffering after a year of disruption from strikes, are spending more than £1bn every year on everything from bottled water to burgers.

    The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) said that “preliminary research and investigations” had identified significantly higher prices in stations compared to the high street.

    The regulator has now launched a full investigation into how passengers are paying over the odds.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/16/rail-station-prices-investigated-food-drink-ripoff/

    This is simply the time-cost-quality triangle in action. You're at the station, you want a snack now, you pay more for a Ginster's pasty from WH Smith. You want to pay less, arrive earlier, walk up the Tesco in town and buy it there. You want quality, you go to Greggs on the way.
    There are more Greggs shops in Zone 1 than I thought!
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&q=greggs+liverpool+street&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjtopPikMj_AhUJQ0EAHXRyAW8QtgN6BAgSEAc#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[51.5354222,-0.0419943],[51.5025708,-0.14842909999999998]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
    I have now found two vantage points in Leeds city centre from which you can see two branches of Greggs at the same time.
    Well done! For a real challenge, can you find anywhere in the Toon where you can't?
    Only those places where you can see three.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    It's not proper test cricket when two batters are stumped dancing down the wicket on day one of the test. Reckless Bazball, not good Bazball.

    England could easily lose this. Australia will probably score a lot on this flat pitch - the ball's done nothing all day. No swing, no movement off the seam.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
    Without a sixth wicket, you can't take a seventh.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,082
    edited June 2023

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    It's not proper test cricket when two batters are stumped dancing down the wicket on day one of the test. Reckless Bazball, not good Bazball.

    England could easily lose this. Australia will probably score a lot on this flat pitch - the ball's done nothing all day. No swing, no movement off the seam.
    Some of the team are still not quite getting the line between fruitful abandon and reckless abandon.

    Weirdly, Stokes is one of the latter despite seeing the team as a whole improve!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    "It's only the second time since the second World War that there have been two stumpings in the first innings of an Ashes test."
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
    Without a sixth wicket, you can't take a seventh.
    Profound. You should have taught philosophy rather than history.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
    Without a sixth wicket, you can't take a seventh.
    Profound. You should have taught philosophy rather than history.
    I teach both!

    (Also Politics, English and basic safeguarding protocols to OFSTED.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131

    Finally.

    Rip-off food and drink prices at railway stations are being investigated by regulators amid fears retailers are forcing passengers to pay extortionate amounts for everyday essentials.

    Rail passengers, already suffering after a year of disruption from strikes, are spending more than £1bn every year on everything from bottled water to burgers.

    The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) said that “preliminary research and investigations” had identified significantly higher prices in stations compared to the high street.

    The regulator has now launched a full investigation into how passengers are paying over the odds.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/16/rail-station-prices-investigated-food-drink-ripoff/

    This is simply the time-cost-quality triangle in action. You're at the station, you want a snack now, you pay more for a Ginster's pasty from WH Smith. You want to pay less, arrive earlier, walk up the Tesco in town and buy it there. You want quality, you go to Greggs on the way.
    There are more Greggs shops in Zone 1 than I thought!
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&q=greggs+liverpool+street&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjtopPikMj_AhUJQ0EAHXRyAW8QtgN6BAgSEAc#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[51.5354222,-0.0419943],[51.5025708,-0.14842909999999998]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
    I have now found two vantage points in Leeds city centre from which you can see two branches of Greggs at the same time.
    I really like their custard doughnuts. I usually feel sick afterwards but it doesn't stop me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited June 2023
    The idea of bazball is that when it comes you take the game away within a few hours, also that technically a lot of the England batsman are flawed and so they aren't able to stay in (even if they are trying). So the thought is might as well get 30 really quickly (and potentially spin that into a big score), rather than batting for 3hrs, score few runs and get a good ball which gets them out.

    England wouldn't have got 331 just prodding around for hours. It would for starters require them to bat 4-5 sessions (if they play defensive) and they just can't do it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They have to go a long way to beat the lady who was very ‘friendly’ with the dolphin.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    It's not proper test cricket when two batters are stumped dancing down the wicket on day one of the test. Reckless Bazball, not good Bazball.

    England could easily lose this. Australia will probably score a lot on this flat pitch - the ball's done nothing all day. No swing, no movement off the seam.
    Some of the team are still not quite getting the line between fruitful abandon and reckless abandon.

    Weirdly, Stokes is one of the latter despite seeing the team as a whole improve!
    I love the reverse sweep for six like Root just did when it comes off though.

    Not a shot you'd see in the nineties, its a shot that is just unstoppable if you can pull it off and looks impressive every time.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Nigelb said:

    "It's only the second time since the second World War that there have been two stumpings in the first innings of an Ashes test."

    And was that prior occasion on day one?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
    Without a sixth wicket, you can't take a seventh.
    Profound. You should have taught philosophy rather than history.
    I teach both!

    (Also Politics, English and basic safeguarding protocols to OFSTED.)
    Makes you sound like Henry Wilt in the Tom Sharpe novel, who added how to deal with the police to his English Lit curriculum after his personal experiences with Plod.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,374
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They have to go a long way to beat the lady who was very ‘friendly’ with the dolphin.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents

    This gem is tame by modern standards
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Nigelb said:

    "It's only the second time since the second World War that there have been two stumpings in the first innings of an Ashes test."

    And was that prior occasion on day one?
    I've no idea.
    But I'm pretty sure no-one played a reverse scoop for six.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    And again.

    Aaargh...

    I'm blaming @Sandpit

    Oi!
    Well, you were the one who wrote this:
    Sandpit said:

    Just as I was writing that Root and Bairstow were doing a great job of rescuing this innings, Jonny goes and gets stuck out of his crease.

    That was posted just after the sixth wicket, a long time before the 7th.
    Without a sixth wicket, you can't take a seventh.
    Profound. You should have taught philosophy rather than history.
    Number theory too ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,082
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "It's only the second time since the second World War that there have been two stumpings in the first innings of an Ashes test."

    And was that prior occasion on day one?
    I've no idea.
    But I'm pretty sure no-one played a reverse scoop for six.
    It does make me wonder how the heck Gilbert Jessop hit a 76 ball century in 1902.

    Wiki has no citation, but claims 'Many of the fours had well cleared the boundary, but the laws of cricket in 1902 meant that to obtain six runs the ball had to be hit out of the ground'.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    The idea of bazball is that when it comes you take the game away within a few hours, also that technically a lot of the England batsman are flawed and so they aren't able to stay in (even if they are trying). So the thought is might as well get 30 really quickly (and potentially spin that into a big score), rather than batting for 3hrs, score few runs and get a good ball which gets them out.

    England wouldn't have got 331 just prodding around for hours. It would for starters require them to bat 4-5 sessions (if they play defensive) and they just can't do it.

    Quite. In a more conventional Test style, they’d be looking for a total around 450, heading towards tea tomorrow. Getting close to that score in one day opens the match up a lot more.

    Giving the C******s (are we still allowed to call them that?) three overs tonight, might not be the worst idea.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They have to go a long way to beat the lady who was very ‘friendly’ with the dolphin.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
    For me this was peak Guardian - those pesky racist compare the market meerkats.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/aug/22/advertising-racism-meerkats
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited June 2023
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They are utterly obsessed.

    But inconsistently so: where there is anything which hints at slavery (like ships, or statues of black people) we should remove them; where there is anything which fails to mention slavery (like a cruise on Lake Windermere full of people enjoying themselves) we should ensure that slavery is mentioned.

    They are utterly barking mad.

    (The ships are there because of Manchester's role as a port - may seem contrived now, but back then it was the third biggest port in the country).
    Oftentimes I suspect this is reverse-Daily-Mail-ing. I.e instead of trying to get readers angry about how awful the world is and how people ‘worse’ than you have more expensive houses than you, it’s trying to illicit feelings of smug self righteousness about how wonderfully virtuous you are to be such a exemplar of social justice and thinking about how to build a better world. And f**k everyone who isn’t. Bigots.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    Sandpit said:

    The idea of bazball is that when it comes you take the game away within a few hours, also that technically a lot of the England batsman are flawed and so they aren't able to stay in (even if they are trying). So the thought is might as well get 30 really quickly (and potentially spin that into a big score), rather than batting for 3hrs, score few runs and get a good ball which gets them out.

    England wouldn't have got 331 just prodding around for hours. It would for starters require them to bat 4-5 sessions (if they play defensive) and they just can't do it.

    Quite. In a more conventional Test style, they’d be looking for a total around 450, heading towards tea tomorrow. Getting close to that score in one day opens the match up a lot more.

    Giving the C******s (are we still allowed to call them that?) three overs tonight, might not be the worst idea.
    Root is the only one that has shown they are consistently capable of doing it all, bat forever without scoring all the way through to T20 mode.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
    I stand by my earlier prediction, that by the end of the summer they’ll be pulling T-34s down from WWII war memorials, and sending them to Ukraine.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They are utterly obsessed.

    But inconsistently so: where there is anything which hints at slavery (like ships, or statues of black people) we should remove them; where there is anything which fails to mention slavery (like a cruise on Lake Windermere full of people enjoying themselves) we should ensure that slavery is mentioned.

    They are utterly barking mad.

    (The ships are there because of Manchester's role as a port - may seem contrived now, but back then it was the third biggest port in the country).
    Oftentimes I suspect this is reverse-Daily-Mail-ing. I.e instead of trying to get readers angry about how awful the world is and how people ‘worse’ than you have more expensive houses than you, it’s trying to illicit feelings of smug self righteousness about how wonderfully virtuous you are to be such a exemplar of social justice and thinking about how to build a better world. And f**k everyone who isn’t. Bigots.
    Its a good job the paper wasn't built on money from slavery & that an offshore tax "efficient" trust keeps the lights on....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,820
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    Bit harsh on the Windrush.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,820

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    I raise you, Thomas the Tank Engine is (insert every -ist) article....
    The Gastronomically-challenged Controller.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
    I stand by my earlier prediction, that by the end of the summer they’ll be pulling T-34s down from WWII war memorials, and sending them to Ukraine.
    They don’t have more than a handful. The claims of building 200 new tanks a month are bollocks, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Mildly promising.

    Frontline report: Ukrainian forces break through Russian lines in Bakhmut
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/16/frontline-report-ukrainian-forces-break-through-russian-lines-in-bakhmut/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    Won't be long now until Australia are having a bat.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Nigelb said:

    Mildly promising.

    Frontline report: Ukrainian forces break through Russian lines in Bakhmut
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/16/frontline-report-ukrainian-forces-break-through-russian-lines-in-bakhmut/

    Both sides are at the early stages. Neither seems to have committed reserves/operational manoeuvre groups.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,820

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
    I stand by my earlier prediction, that by the end of the summer they’ll be pulling T-34s down from WWII war memorials, and sending them to Ukraine.
    They don’t have more than a handful. The claims of building 200 new tanks a month are bollocks, though.
    "You see, they're stubborn. That's the good thing about the Russians. Man, you got to admit, when they get an idea in their heads..."

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    The King appoints the Queen to the Order of the Thistle
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65932628
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,820
    HYUFD said:

    The King appoints the Queen to the Order of the Thistle
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65932628

    - Hag!
    - I beg your pardon?
    - Evil old woman, considered frightful or ugly, 12 down.
    - Oh... bless you!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
    I stand by my earlier prediction, that by the end of the summer they’ll be pulling T-34s down from WWII war memorials, and sending them to Ukraine.
    They don’t have more than a handful. The claims of building 200 new tanks a month are bollocks, though.
    At the start of the war, they reckoned that the new tanks such as T-90 were coming out at about 5 a month, but that they relied on increasingly difficult-to-find electronics, so ‘changes’ were made to their capabilities. I can believe that the refurb factories are getting dozens of old relics something approaching serviceable though. Oryx have more than 2,000 documented tank losses so far.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Apparently the South African delegation in Kyiv are denying that they heard or saw an air raid…

    But we’re seen entering an air raid shelter
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Won't be long now until Australia are having a bat.

    Another 7-10 overs to leave just five or so before the close would be ideal.

    The over rate is actually disgusting.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited June 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Roooot.

    Some things change and some remain the same.

    Greatest England batsman ever
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    edited June 2023
    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I subscribe to:

    The Spectator
    The Times
    The New York Times
    The FT
    The Economist
    The Telegraph

    And get the guardian and BBC for free

    That sounds a lot but I get them all with stupidly cheap special offers - digital only. Eg the NYT costs me 50p a week and they throw in The Athletic. It’s mad

    Are you saying you don't pay your telly tax? And you manage to put up with the Guardian begging letter on every article?
    The Guardian’s begging gets increasingly annoying. Just go behind a paywall already. Enough

    Then I can stop reading their Wokeish drivel
    What? And miss articles like this?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/16/lake-district-tour-boat-firm-accused-by-boatmaster-of-censoring-windermere-links-to-slavery
    That's not Peak Guardian.

    I think Peak Guardian was a piece in Comment is Free a few weeks ago urging Man Utd and Man City to remove the ships from their logos because slaves were transported in ships .
    They have to go a long way to beat the lady who was very ‘friendly’ with the dolphin.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
    For me this was peak Guardian - those pesky racist compare the market meerkats.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/aug/22/advertising-racism-meerkats
    Yes, but on the other hand they are gay tech-bro meerkats, who are adoptive parents, albeit with a slightly odd dom/sub relationship.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Root 100. Very nice innings.

    Just as he well he was there because the rest have not hinted at permanence. Without him England might have lost this already.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited June 2023
    How close was Root to being run out on 99? 😮

    Now the big cheer, first century of the series. Great innings.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have caught their first Russian T-54

    Obviously need to wait until Oryx confirms.....

    Apparently turns out it was only a T-62. Will have to wait a bit longer for the T-54s and T-55s to get wrecked in theatre.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669719500952829952
    That sound is Nick at TanksAlot stopping dreaming about a swap. A running T-54 would be moderately valuable on the collectors market.
    I stand by my earlier prediction, that by the end of the summer they’ll be pulling T-34s down from WWII war memorials, and sending them to Ukraine.
    They don’t have more than a handful. The claims of building 200 new tanks a month are bollocks, though.
    At the start of the war, they reckoned that the new tanks such as T-90 were coming out at about 5 a month, but that they relied on increasingly difficult-to-find electronics, so ‘changes’ were made to their capabilities. I can believe that the refurb factories are getting dozens of old relics something approaching serviceable though. Oryx have more than 2,000 documented tank losses so far.
    The more realistic suggested levels of production are the order of 20-50 reconditioned tanks plus 20 or so new builds per month.

    Which means that they aren’t really replacing losses. And issues with optics and other equipment means that on average, the Russian tank fleet is going backwards in capability.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
    Sometimes tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    It appears that it’s a widespread human emotion to want to be annoyed/enraged.

    The Daily Mail is very good at it, alongside other titillations.

    I confess it’s a mystery to me. I don’t want to annoyed.
    I used to wake up to Radio 4, got rid of it nearly ten years ago for similar reasons.

    Maybe PB isn't for you...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    The King appoints the Queen to the Order of the Thistle
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65932628

    - Hag!
    - I beg your pardon?
    - Evil old woman, considered frightful or ugly, 12 down.
    - Oh... bless you!
    Show some respect to Her Majesty please!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
    Sometimes tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
    Indeed, but I don’t see it happening.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,579
    Redfield & Wilton:

    Trump leads Biden by 3% nationally.

    2024 Presidential Election Hypothetical Voting Intention (10-11 June):

    Donald Trump: 42% (+1)
    Joe Biden: 39% (-6)
    Don't Know: 12% (+4)

    Changes +/- 31 May

    Might trade out my Biden bets when & if he is declared the nominee. I had counted on Trump being a busted flush.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
    Our police forces are sick. So, so sick. I just don’t know what we do about it.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Did we cover Savanta showing Labour close to over-taking the SNP in Scotland?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
    Sometimes tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
    Indeed, but I don’t see it happening.
    Lessons Will Be Learned
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Hmmm.

    I still think they’re 60 light of par. But going for a bowl tonight does make sense.
  • Run Rate now over 5 an over with that six - and England declare.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Oh the New England. Declared. Remarkable.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    carnforth said:

    Redfield & Wilton:

    Trump leads Biden by 3% nationally.

    2024 Presidential Election Hypothetical Voting Intention (10-11 June):

    Donald Trump: 42% (+1)
    Joe Biden: 39% (-6)
    Don't Know: 12% (+4)

    Changes +/- 31 May

    Might trade out my Biden bets when & if he is declared the nominee. I had counted on Trump being a busted flush.

    If Trump is roughly level-pegging with Biden going into the election year, things could get very volatile and it's hard to predict the outcome.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805

    Did we cover Savanta showing Labour close to over-taking the SNP in Scotland?

    Not the way I read it. Seemed to me that the SNP had stabilised a bit. As had independence. Remarkably.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    What larks from this England team.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have no words. No polite ones anyway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65928045

    It’s not even a diseased orchard, is it? More a poisonous species.
    Our police forces are sick. So, so sick. I just don’t know what we do about it.
    We have the same problem in education.

    My solution - and I mean it quite seriously - is abolish the DfE and its associated quangos, and ban anyone who has worked directly for them for working in either public service or with children again.

    Yes, it will cause chaos in many ways. It is unlikely however that the chaos will be worse than what we have now. And it will clear the big stumbling block to genuine reform out of the way.

    I wonder if the same might work for the police. The issue is where do you get new ones from? I doubt if criminals would hesitate to take advantage of more freedom…
This discussion has been closed.