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Ratings blow for Sunak from R&W – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,889
edited June 2023 in General
imageRatings blow for from R&W – politicalbetting.com

It is hard to see what has happened in the past week to explain the shift apart from the fracas with the Home Secretary and Sunak’s decision not to sack her. He came out of that affair not very well.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,457
    First like Labour
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    eekeek Posts: 26,375
    Rishi is going backwards - although he seemed to do OK in the Northallerton 10k yesterday (and that's one of the hardest localish ones).
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,154
    Immigration numbers will not have helped him
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,432
    Noun missing in the header... were there party rating in that poll?

    FPT Leon:
    Leon said:



    That is unless the locals are REALLY colorful

    I do like a good press trip however - with a gang of journalists. They are always very boozy, very messy, and seasoned with excellent gossip

    "colorful"? Are you being impersonated by an American AI?

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,165
    Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,457
    DougSeal said:

    Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.

    Sheffield Wednesday fans please explain?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    Very interesting pieces of Alzheimer’s research identifying a potential bio marker present in preclinical individuals.
    Very important, since trying to treat patients who have already developed the disease - and conducting clinical trials with them - is somewhere between very difficult and impossible,

    Validation of a biomarker that predicts #Alzheimer's disease in multiple cohorts by assessing astrocyte reactivity (Ast+) in >1,000 people without cognitive impairment
    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1663211379933995010
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    I will be playing BJO today.

    SKS is a Tory and Labour are rubbish and not real Labour
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,375
    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting pieces of Alzheimer’s research identifying a potential bio marker present in preclinical individuals.
    Very important, since trying to treat patients who have already developed the disease - and conducting clinical trials with them - is somewhere between very difficult and impossible,

    Validation of a biomarker that predicts #Alzheimer's disease in multiple cohorts by assessing astrocyte reactivity (Ast+) in >1,000 people without cognitive impairment
    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1663211379933995010

    And then we have this from Friday (reposting). Some forms seem triggered by a virus that the shingles vaccine can protect you from https://twitter.com/pgeldsetzer1/status/1661776663074738176?s=61&t=HB3GjP-620wJDy6kPGlVkg
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine.
    Clearly the British people don't agree with you.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106
    edited May 2023

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    He’s crap.
    He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

    It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106
    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine.
    Clearly the British people don't agree with you.
    If this was 2010 I believe Rishi would be firmly in the lead.

    He's just not got the ability of say Blair and he's not got the bullshit of Johnson.

    He is basically SKS but defending a long period of Government that most people consider at best ineffective.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    I am not particularly enthusiastic about Sir Keir but I have this absolute sense that in the purdah period of the General Election campaign, he is going to make Rishi Sunak look totally out of his depth. Sunak does NOT like close scrutiny and is amateurish. It's not surprising his own party preferred the execrable Liz Truss over him.

    Sunak is the Spurs of politics. Winning nothing.

  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    He’s crap.
    He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

    It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.
    Yep

    A desperately weak leader. Probably the weakest PM of my lifetime.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,463
    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,695

    Noun missing in the header... were there party rating in that poll?

    FPT Leon:

    Leon said:



    That is unless the locals are REALLY colorful

    I do like a good press trip however - with a gang of journalists. They are always very boozy, very messy, and seasoned with excellent gossip

    "colorful"? Are you being impersonated by an American AI?

    My iPad has American autocorrect and I can’t be assed to fix it
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    Got the nation through the pandemic. Avoided the worst of the energy shock by supporting everyone.
    Opened the Elizabeth Line.
    Ended decades of acrimony about the EU.*
    Destroyed the threat of UKIP.**
    Saw Liverpool finally win the League.

    *Sure, at the expense of decades of acrimony about Brexit, but hey.
    **By turning the Conservative Party INTO UKIP…
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    When the gong sounds at 10 pm on the evening of the next General Election, and Labour's majority appears in red emblazoned across your screens ... I will try to desist from saying 'I told you so'. It will be far too exciting and interesting for that.

    One thing to look out for is that we want no more of Portillo faux-contrition moments. That can come later. They deserve the kicking they are going to get.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    You probably are right, but your hubris is off the scale.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    It’s difficult to think of a more damaging government.
    Indeed, I simply can’t think of one.

    Even the Tory 1951-1964 administration, famously tired and debauched by its end, achieved historic housebuilding and considerable decolonisation.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,695
    Still doing a deep dive on migration. I’ve discovered a brilliant new sub genre of Anglophobic Irish nationalist

    Ireland is going through quite a serious migrant crisis of its own, and these Irish Brit-haters think it is somehow a UK conspiracy to flood Ireland via the ulster border. Also they hate the head of the ‘pro-migrant’ Gardai, coz he has ‘links with MI5’

    Superb
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658
    Heathener said:

    When the gong sounds at 10 pm on the evening of the next General Election, and Labour's majority appears in red emblazoned across your screens ... I will try to desist from saying 'I told you so'. It will be far too exciting and interesting for that.

    One thing to look out for is that we want no more of Portillo faux-contrition moments. That can come later. They deserve the kicking they are going to get.

    Pride comes before a fall Heathener. I very much want to see the back of this dreadful Government, but remember the spectre of 1992.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    On a less contentious note, it looks like the IPL final is going to be handed to GT

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    You probably are right, but your hubris is off the scale.
    Well, except that I don't work for Labour or the LibDems so this is an objective assessment rather than a personal self-aggrandisement. I've been right about Conservative wins before (Cameron in 2015) and the Brexit vote and Biden's win in 2020 when I made a tidy packet whilst others panicked (Florida).

    And I was infamously and spectacularly wrong about Putin's invasion.
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,015

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    The happy time of full employment, affordable housing, growing affluence, more varied restaurants and a country park on every slag heap.

    Of course that only benefits certain age groups in certain parts of the country and much of that might have happened anyway.

    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    edited May 2023
    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    1. Abroad is divided into an annoying number of subsections, because foreigners refuse to recognise their inherent shared foreignness - the narcissism of small distinctions, I think this is called. "Foreign and begins with M" covers a lot of possibilities, as wikipedia or google maps will confirm.

    2. I am not seeing an answer to my question. Lab maj? Lab min? Not actually good enough at being right to say?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    Note however 34% preferring Sunak to Starmer as PM is significantly higher than the headline 25-30% Tory voteshare in most polls including this one.

    If the Tories got 34% at the next general election they would lose yes but honourably so, in fact with slightly more seats than Howard got in 2005 rather than the 1997 or 2001 style landslide defeat the headline voting intention suggests the Tories are heading for
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    I imagine people had harder lives back then even if they were poshos.

    And I wonder if people looked older in b&w pictures.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,451
    edited May 2023
    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,713

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    The happy time of full employment, affordable housing, growing affluence, more varied restaurants and a country park on every slag heap.

    Of course that only benefits certain age groups in certain parts of the country and much of that might have happened anyway.

    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    Affordable housing, growing affluence?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,154
    edited May 2023
    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

    The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

    Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    edited May 2023

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    He’s crap.
    He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

    It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.
    John Major seems to come out better with every year that passes after his humiliating defeat in 1997.

    In fact 26 years since he left office, Major is still the longest serving Conservative PM since Thatcher and still won the most votes for any PM in history in his surprise 1992 re election victory. He left a growing economy and balanced budget for New Labour and low inflation, secured an opt out from the Euro while keeping the UK in the EU, won the Gulf War with Bush 41 and set the way for peace in Northern Ireland.

    Very interesting talk and Q and A by Sir John at the Oxford Union in March here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3vKLMtRgQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutpaMhsfKE
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612
    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,157
    DougSeal said:

    Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.

    Everyone except the Sainted Jeremy is cr*p? ;)

    I do wonder how he can read through the tears streaming down his cheeks....
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106
    edited May 2023
    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,157

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    Actually, that silence was your answer...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,220

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261
    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,157
    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    1. Abroad is divided into an annoying number of subsections, because foreigners refuse to recognise their inherent shared foreignness - the narcissism of small distinctions, I think this is called. "Foreign and begins with M" covers a lot of possibilities, as wikipedia or google maps will confirm.

    2. I am not seeing an answer to my question. Lab maj? Lab min? Not actually good enough at being right to say?
    Answer to your question: Labour [anything] is good enough. Another 5 years of the current shower would be beyond agony...
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,412
    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

    My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

    While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

    And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

    As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

    And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

    Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

    Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

    What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

    Which is what I said in my initial comment.

    We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,081

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    I don't think that's accurate. Much of the media was captivated by Boris boosterism from 2019 until his downfall, despite Covid intervening.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.
    Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,390
    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,278

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    Actually, that silence was your answer...
    He's offering what Tories always answer - keep Labour out. This will be good enough for a few million votes.

    The reverse is also true, of course.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,713

    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

    The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

    Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024
    That's three things Big_G ;-)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,412

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.
    Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.
    Indeed, very marked contrast. After the next US election, Biden will be 82 and Trump 78! DeSantis, by contrast, will be 46, and there’s every chance of that age difference becoming apparent during the campaign, in the younger man’s favour.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,408
    Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,551

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

    My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

    While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

    And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.


    As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

    And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

    Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

    Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

    What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

    Which is what I said in my initial comment.

    We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.
    There is a chunk, a hefty chunk, of the population doing very nicely, thank you. But how big is it?

    You need to have a mortgage all but paid off, but not be so old as to worry about the issues in health and social care.

    It's a heft chunk of the population, but it doesn't look like a winning chunk. Especially when all the other voters are burying hatchets and looking to hurt the government above all else.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,574
    So the government is threatening legal action against the Covid Inquiry .

    If they’ve nothing to hide why refuse to hand over the documents requested . This government is an absolute cesspit .
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,961
    DavidL said:

    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

    It's a 3 day T20 match
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,412

    Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

    Congratulations to the Owls!
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited May 2023

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year
    The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    DavidL said:

    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

    Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

    Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261

    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

    The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

    Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024
    That's three things Big_G ;-)
    What have the romans ever done for us?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261

    Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

    You can’t die now, not before next season.

    Oh - not that kind of checkout…
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261

    DavidL said:

    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

    Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

    Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.
    Arguably cricket does too, to an extent. (Not as marked as 100m vs marathon, I’ll grant you).
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612

    DavidL said:

    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

    Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

    Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.
    Tennis has different surfaces as well as singles/doubles.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,081

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

    My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

    While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

    And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

    As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

    And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

    Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

    Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

    What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

    Which is what I said in my initial comment.

    We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.
    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    I don't think that's the case for most working people, though, which is a problem for the government.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

    My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

    While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

    And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.


    As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

    And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

    Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

    Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

    What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

    Which is what I said in my initial comment.

    We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.
    There is a chunk, a hefty chunk, of the population doing very nicely, thank you. But how big is it?

    You need to have a mortgage all but paid off, but not be so old as to worry about the issues in health and social care.

    It's a heft chunk of the population, but it doesn't look like a winning chunk. Especially when all the other voters are burying hatchets and looking to hurt the government above all else.
    Given the propensity of oldies to vote and that 40% would normally win an election the Conservatives should have a solid base. Especially as the anti-Conservative vote would likely be more concentrated in university and inner city constituencies for example.

    But all moot when a political party goes out of its way to aggravate as many people as possible.

    It would be interesting to know though the details of those people who do have mortgages.

    Someone who has £10k left on a mortgage they took out twenty years ago is in a very different situation to someone with a £200k mortgage taken out this year.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    edited May 2023

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.
    Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.
    Though before Biden and Trump, Clinton and Obama were Presidents in their 40s and Bush 43 was President in his 50s.

    The average age of UK PMs taking office is 54
    https://averagewiki.com/average-age-of-uk-prime-minister/
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441

    DavidL said:

    Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

    Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

    Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.
    Skiing?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,557

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,089

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
    The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    Heathener said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    You are like a broken record.
    It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right
    "Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?
    Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

    There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

    It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.
    Were you around in 1997? The Tories got hammered because of sleaze and Camelot. They were seen as corrupt and Labour were seen not as saviours of the NHS or of anything else for that matter, but as the future. The landscape is totally different now.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    edited May 2023
    Westie said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year
    The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.
    No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

    The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

    My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

    While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

    And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

    As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

    And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

    Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

    Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

    What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

    Which is what I said in my initial comment.

    We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.
    My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

    I don't think that's the case for most working people, though, which is a problem for the government.
    Remember to account for oldies and their triple lock pension increases.

    As for workers there are some who are getting higher percentage pay rises than price rises and others who while getting lower percentage pay rises than price rises are getting higher monetary pay rises than price rises.

    The key determinant of how well individuals are doing is pretty much their housing situation.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612
    Leon said:
    Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    HYUFD said:

    Westie said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year
    The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.
    No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

    The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university
    Agreed, but I didn't say Tory MPs were mostly poshos. An obnoxious baying c*** doesn't have to be a posho.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,261
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.
    Which press is cheerleading Brexit now?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,695
    edited May 2023

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    Look at the tweets I just posted from the USA, then compare them to Britain

    Honestly, it’s ridiculous. The whole nation is having a nervous breakdown over some economic pain, and straining public services, but these are not akin to the catastrophes facing many other countries

    eg We have nothing like the homeless/drug problem in America, a society ostensibly richer and ‘more successful’ than us

    Get a grip, Britain
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    Leon said:
    I wonder if the bigger a country is the bigger the extremes within it are.

    Biden is doing a much better job than I expected and much of the USA will be doing very well - often for similar reasons why much of the UK is doing very well.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
    The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.
    I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

    If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

    I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered something interesting.
    If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
    Strange. You don't think of him as old.

    Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.
    On a point of pedantry:

    Thatcher was 65 when she was booted out.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    Look at the tweets I just posted from the USA, then compare them to Britain

    Honestly, it’s ridiculous. The whole nation is having a nervous breakdown over some economic pain, and straining public services, but these are not akin to the catastrophes facing many other countries

    eg We have nothing like the homeless/drug problem in America, a society ostensibly richer and ‘more successful’ than us

    Get a grip, Britain
    Why is anyone surprised that they have less money than they would have had without a global pandemic and a major war?

    Junior doctors should take a pay cut for being stupid enough to demand a 23% wage increase in these circumstances
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    Does anyone know what the average monthly mortgage payment is currently ?

    It says £753 here but it references March 2022 so likely significantly higher now.

    https://www.money.co.uk/mortgages/uk-mortgage-statistics-and-facts#:~:text=The UK demonstrates a mean,April 2021 to March 2022.

    Even so £753 is a huge difference between those who have to pay and those who no longer do so.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,089

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
    The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.
    I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

    If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

    I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm
    It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
    The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.
    I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

    If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

    I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm
    It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.
    I can see that it'd be a bad thing if participants to this site hadn't kept up with UK culture well enough to know that David Baddiel had written that book
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,879
    Any predictions for the Spanish election?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,557

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    What is Rishi offering the country?
    I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

    He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

    Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!
    But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

    Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.
    The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

    Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

    No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.
    Out of touch, or simply demented?

    Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

    Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.
    Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.
    Which press is cheerleading Brexit now?
    They're not singing any more...
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,089

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

    This is where Sunak finds himself

    If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.
    Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.
    Come on - antisemetism is racist.
    Jews Don't Count
    The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.
    I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

    If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

    I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm
    It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.
    I can see that it'd be a bad thing if participants to this site hadn't kept up with UK culture well enough to know that David Baddiel had written that book
    Well I wasn't hitherto aware of it.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    Leon said:
    Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.
    Not much opportunity for middle class flight from social problems in Singapore so they had an incentive to sort them.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,375

    Does anyone know what the average monthly mortgage payment is currently ?

    It says £753 here but it references March 2022 so likely significantly higher now.

    https://www.money.co.uk/mortgages/uk-mortgage-statistics-and-facts#:~:text=The UK demonstrates a mean,April 2021 to March 2022.

    Even so £753 is a huge difference between those who have to pay and those who no longer do so.

    Will he other figure it says was that the average mortgage is £193,000 which looking at he Halifax will cost you £1083 at least at the moment.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,457

    Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

    SKS fans please explain!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,879
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:
    Did you visit San Francisco in the 1990s? I'd be interested to know what it was like at that time compared to now.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612

    Leon said:
    Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.
    Not much opportunity for middle class flight from social problems in Singapore so they had an incentive to sort them.
    That’s a good point. Maybe these cities are doomed then and people who want something different will have to start again somewhere else.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,557
    HYUFD said:

    Westie said:

    Heathener said:

    Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

    In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

    The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

    Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure
    This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year
    The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.
    No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

    The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university
    In large part down to the decline in the numbers of people working down mines or or in factories any more, so hard to recruit as potential MPs. There are some who have been on working class service industry jobs, such as Rayner.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,695

    Leon said:
    I wonder if the bigger a country is the bigger the extremes within it are.

    Biden is doing a much better job than I expected and much of the USA will be doing very well - often for similar reasons why much of the UK is doing very well.
    Large parts of America are really NOT doing well in a way we don’t comprehend in the UK

    Seattle


    https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1660758006420881409?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg


    Portland

    https://twitter.com/miss_misscat/status/1660466514804494337?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    New York

    https://twitter.com/jeffyoungershow/status/1654513948899651587?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    Los Angeles

    https://twitter.com/dawntj90/status/1629525612842065920?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    One more from Philadelphia

    https://twitter.com/dailyloud/status/1662667431750385664?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
This discussion has been closed.