Ratings blow for Sunak from R&W – politicalbetting.com

System

Ratings blow for from R&W – politicalbetting.com

It is hard to see what has happened in the past week to explain the shift apart from the fracas with the Home Secretary and Sunak’s decision not to sack her. He came out of that affair not very well.

Read the full story here

Sunil_Prasannan

First like Labour

eek

Rishi is going backwards - although he seemed to do OK in the Northallerton 10k yesterday (and that's one of the hardest localish ones).

Big_G_NorthWales

Immigration numbers will not have helped him

NickPalmer

Noun missing in the header... were there party rating in that poll?

FPT Leon:

Leon said:

That is unless the locals are REALLY colorful

I do like a good press trip however - with a gang of journalists. They are always very boozy, very messy, and seasoned with excellent gossip

"colorful"? Are you being impersonated by an American AI?

DougSeal

Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.

Sunil_Prasannan

DougSeal said:

Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.

Sheffield Wednesday fans please explain?

Nigelb

Very interesting pieces of Alzheimer’s research identifying a potential bio marker present in preclinical individuals.
Very important, since trying to treat patients who have already developed the disease - and conducting clinical trials with them - is somewhere between very difficult and impossible,

Validation of a biomarker that predicts #Alzheimer's disease in multiple cohorts by assessing astrocyte reactivity (Ast+) in >1,000 people without cognitive impairment
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1663211379933995010

Heathener

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

CorrectHorseBat

I will be playing BJO today.

SKS is a Tory and Labour are rubbish and not real Labour

CorrectHorseBat

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

eek

Nigelb said:

Very interesting pieces of Alzheimer’s research identifying a potential bio marker present in preclinical individuals.
Very important, since trying to treat patients who have already developed the disease - and conducting clinical trials with them - is somewhere between very difficult and impossible,

Validation of a biomarker that predicts #Alzheimer's disease in multiple cohorts by assessing astrocyte reactivity (Ast+) in >1,000 people without cognitive impairment
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1663211379933995010

And then we have this from Friday (reposting). Some forms seem triggered by a virus that the shingles vaccine can protect you from https://twitter.com/pgeldsetzer1/status/1661776663074738176?s=61&t=HB3GjP-620wJDy6kPGlVkg

Heathener

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine.

Clearly the British people don't agree with you.

Gardenwalker

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

He’s crap.
He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.

Gardenwalker

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

CorrectHorseBat

Heathener said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine.

Clearly the British people don't agree with you.

If this was 2010 I believe Rishi would be firmly in the lead.

He's just not got the ability of say Blair and he's not got the bullshit of Johnson.

He is basically SKS but defending a long period of Government that most people consider at best ineffective.

Heathener

I am not particularly enthusiastic about Sir Keir but I have this absolute sense that in the purdah period of the General Election campaign, he is going to make Rishi Sunak look totally out of his depth. Sunak does NOT like close scrutiny and is amateurish. It's not surprising his own party preferred the execrable Liz Truss over him.

Sunak is the Spurs of politics. Winning nothing.

CorrectHorseBat

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

Heathener

Gardenwalker said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

He’s crap.
He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.

Yep

A desperately weak leader. Probably the weakest PM of my lifetime.

squareroot2

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

Heathener

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

Leon

NickPalmer said:

Noun missing in the header... were there party rating in that poll?

FPT Leon:

Leon said:

That is unless the locals are REALLY colorful

I do like a good press trip however - with a gang of journalists. They are always very boozy, very messy, and seasoned with excellent gossip

"colorful"? Are you being impersonated by an American AI?

My iPad has American autocorrect and I can’t be assed to fix it

turbotubbs

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

Got the nation through the pandemic. Avoided the worst of the energy shock by supporting everyone.
Opened the Elizabeth Line.
Ended decades of acrimony about the EU.*
Destroyed the threat of UKIP.**
Saw Liverpool finally win the League.

*Sure, at the expense of decades of acrimony about Brexit, but hey.
**By turning the Conservative Party INTO UKIP…

Heathener

When the gong sounds at 10 pm on the evening of the next General Election, and Labour's majority appears in red emblazoned across your screens ... I will try to desist from saying 'I told you so'. It will be far too exciting and interesting for that.

One thing to look out for is that we want no more of Portillo faux-contrition moments. That can come later. They deserve the kicking they are going to get.

turbotubbs

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

You probably are right, but your hubris is off the scale.

Gardenwalker

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

It’s difficult to think of a more damaging government.
Indeed, I simply can’t think of one.

Even the Tory 1951-1964 administration, famously tired and debauched by its end, achieved historic housebuilding and considerable decolonisation.

Leon

Still doing a deep dive on migration. I’ve discovered a brilliant new sub genre of Anglophobic Irish nationalist

Ireland is going through quite a serious migrant crisis of its own, and these Irish Brit-haters think it is somehow a UK conspiracy to flood Ireland via the ulster border. Also they hate the head of the ‘pro-migrant’ Gardai, coz he has ‘links with MI5’

Superb

Mexicanpete

Heathener said:

When the gong sounds at 10 pm on the evening of the next General Election, and Labour's majority appears in red emblazoned across your screens ... I will try to desist from saying 'I told you so'. It will be far too exciting and interesting for that.

One thing to look out for is that we want no more of Portillo faux-contrition moments. That can come later. They deserve the kicking they are going to get.

Pride comes before a fall Heathener. I very much want to see the back of this dreadful Government, but remember the spectre of 1992.

Heathener

On a less contentious note, it looks like the IPL final is going to be handed to GT

turbotubbs said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

You probably are right, but your hubris is off the scale.

Well, except that I don't work for Labour or the LibDems so this is an objective assessment rather than a personal self-aggrandisement. I've been right about Conservative wins before (Cameron in 2015) and the Brexit vote and Biden's win in 2020 when I made a tidy packet whilst others panicked (Florida).

And I was infamously and spectacularly wrong about Putin's invasion.

Miklosvar

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Razedabode

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year

Heathener

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

another_richard

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

The happy time of full employment, affordable housing, growing affluence, more varied restaurants and a country park on every slag heap.

Of course that only benefits certain age groups in certain parts of the country and much of that might have happened anyway.

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

dixiedean

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Miklosvar

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

1. Abroad is divided into an annoying number of subsections, because foreigners refuse to recognise their inherent shared foreignness - the narcissism of small distinctions, I think this is called. "Foreign and begins with M" covers a lot of possibilities, as wikipedia or google maps will confirm.

2. I am not seeing an answer to my question. Lab maj? Lab min? Not actually good enough at being right to say?

HYUFD

Note however 34% preferring Sunak to Starmer as PM is significantly higher than the headline 25-30% Tory voteshare in most polls including this one.

If the Tories got 34% at the next general election they would lose yes but honourably so, in fact with slightly more seats than Howard got in 2005 rather than the 1997 or 2001 style landslide defeat the headline voting intention suggests the Tories are heading for

another_richard

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

I imagine people had harder lives back then even if they were poshos.

And I wonder if people looked older in b&w pictures.

Heathener

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Roger

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

Benpointer

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

The happy time of full employment, affordable housing, growing affluence, more varied restaurants and a country park on every slag heap.

Of course that only benefits certain age groups in certain parts of the country and much of that might have happened anyway.

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

Affordable housing, growing affluence?

Big_G_NorthWales

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024

HYUFD

Gardenwalker said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

He’s crap.
He’s sub-Major, let’s be honest.

It’s only in comparison with the deranged Truss and the flamboyant larceny of Johnson that he seems “fine”.

John Major seems to come out better with every year that passes after his humiliating defeat in 1997.

In fact 26 years since he left office, Major is still the longest serving Conservative PM since Thatcher and still won the most votes for any PM in history in his surprise 1992 re election victory. He left a growing economy and balanced budget for New Labour and low inflation, secured an opt out from the Euro while keeping the UK in the EU, won the Gulf War with Bush 41 and set the way for peace in Northern Ireland.

Very interesting talk and Q and A by Sir John at the Oxford Union in March here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3vKLMtRgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutpaMhsfKE

williamglenn

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Beibheirli_C

DougSeal said:

Looking forward to BJO’s take on all this. It’ll be a refreshing perspective I’m sure.

Everyone except the Sainted Jeremy is cr*p?

I do wonder how he can read through the tears streaming down his cheeks....

Gardenwalker

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

Beibheirli_C

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

Actually, that silence was your answer...

rcs1000

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

turbotubbs

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Beibheirli_C

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

1. Abroad is divided into an annoying number of subsections, because foreigners refuse to recognise their inherent shared foreignness - the narcissism of small distinctions, I think this is called. "Foreign and begins with M" covers a lot of possibilities, as wikipedia or google maps will confirm.

2. I am not seeing an answer to my question. Lab maj? Lab min? Not actually good enough at being right to say?

Answer to your question: Labour [anything] is good enough. Another 5 years of the current shower would be beyond agony...

turbotubbs

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

BlancheLivermore

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

Sandpit

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.

another_richard

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

Which is what I said in my initial comment.

We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.

Northern_Al

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

I don't think that's accurate. Much of the media was captivated by Boris boosterism from 2019 until his downfall, despite Covid intervening.

another_richard

Sandpit said:

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.

Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.

DavidL

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

Cookie

Beibheirli_C said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

Actually, that silence was your answer...

He's offering what Tories always answer - keep Labour out. This will be good enough for a few million votes.

The reverse is also true, of course.

Benpointer

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024

That's three things Big_G ;-)

Sandpit

another_richard said:

Sandpit said:

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.

Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.

Indeed, very marked contrast. After the next US election, Biden will be 82 and Trump 78! DeSantis, by contrast, will be 46, and there’s every chance of that age difference becoming apparent during the campaign, in the younger man’s favour.

bigjohnowls

Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

Stuartinromford

another_richard said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.


As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

Which is what I said in my initial comment.

We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.

There is a chunk, a hefty chunk, of the population doing very nicely, thank you. But how big is it?

You need to have a mortgage all but paid off, but not be so old as to worry about the issues in health and social care.

It's a heft chunk of the population, but it doesn't look like a winning chunk. Especially when all the other voters are burying hatchets and looking to hurt the government above all else.

nico679

So the government is threatening legal action against the Covid Inquiry .

If they’ve nothing to hide why refuse to hand over the documents requested . This government is an absolute cesspit .

CatMan

DavidL said:

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

It's a 3 day T20 match

Sandpit

bigjohnowls said:

Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

Congratulations to the Owls!

Westie

Razedabode said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year

The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.

another_richard

DavidL said:

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.

turbotubbs

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

I cannot recall a poster so full of hubris that even labour supporters are cautioning you

The one thing that will galvanise conservative support is complacency, arrogance and hubris demonstrated so ably by yourself

Just be satisfied that Starmer is very likely to be PM in late 2024

That's three things Big_G ;-)

What have the romans ever done for us?

turbotubbs

bigjohnowls said:

Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

You can’t die now, not before next season.

Oh - not that kind of checkout…

turbotubbs

another_richard said:

DavidL said:

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.

Arguably cricket does too, to an extent. (Not as marked as 100m vs marathon, I’ll grant you).

williamglenn

another_richard said:

DavidL said:

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.

Tennis has different surfaces as well as singles/doubles.

Northern_Al

another_richard said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

Which is what I said in my initial comment.

We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

I don't think that's the case for most working people, though, which is a problem for the government.

another_richard

Stuartinromford said:

another_richard said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.


As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

Which is what I said in my initial comment.

We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.

There is a chunk, a hefty chunk, of the population doing very nicely, thank you. But how big is it?

You need to have a mortgage all but paid off, but not be so old as to worry about the issues in health and social care.

It's a heft chunk of the population, but it doesn't look like a winning chunk. Especially when all the other voters are burying hatchets and looking to hurt the government above all else.

Given the propensity of oldies to vote and that 40% would normally win an election the Conservatives should have a solid base. Especially as the anti-Conservative vote would likely be more concentrated in university and inner city constituencies for example.

But all moot when a political party goes out of its way to aggravate as many people as possible.

It would be interesting to know though the details of those people who do have mortgages.

Someone who has £10k left on a mortgage they took out twenty years ago is in a very different situation to someone with a £200k mortgage taken out this year.

HYUFD

another_richard said:

Sandpit said:

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.

Quite a difference to the US gerontocracy.

Though before Biden and Trump, Clinton and Obama were Presidents in their 40s and Bush 43 was President in his 50s.

The average age of UK PMs taking office is 54
https://averagewiki.com/average-age-of-uk-prime-minister/

BlancheLivermore

another_richard said:

DavidL said:

Are getting 15 overs in the IPL final. Revised target 170. Seems to me to take a bit of the sting out of GT's score. But I still fancy their chances.

Is there any other sport which has such differences between various forms ?

Athletics and cycling have different distances but with different participants in each.

Skiing?

Foxy

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.

Omnium

BlancheLivermore said:

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.

Westie

Heathener said:

Miklosvar said:

Heathener said:

squareroot2 said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

You are like a broken record.

It must be annoying to listen to someone who is right

"Tories are toast" is too obvious to be interesting. Lab maj vs Lab min government is the live issue. What's the answer?

Oooh do we have a new bot? Hello. Is a name like 'Miklosvar' a little too obvious? What news from Moscow?

There is nothing un-interesting about the impending end of 13 yrs of Conservative Gov't and a new Labour one. Especially given the absolute shellacking the tories are in for on the day of the election, from a pincer Lab-LibDem movement.

It's going to be spectacular. 1997 Redux.

Were you around in 1997? The Tories got hammered because of sleaze and Camelot. They were seen as corrupt and Labour were seen not as saviours of the NHS or of anything else for that matter, but as the future. The landscape is totally different now.

Leon

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

HYUFD

Westie said:

Razedabode said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year

The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.

No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university

another_richard

Northern_Al said:

another_richard said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

My rent isn't rising because I don't rent.

My mortgage isn't rising because its been paid off.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

So is the interest I'm getting on my savings.

While the supermarkets have near continuous 25% off wine offers

And there are many millions of oldies and GenXers similar to me.

As for affordable housing then that is very location dependent.

And full employment gives opportunities for those teenagers who prefer to get a job or training rather than go to university.

Now are there many millions of others who are struggling ?

Of course there are - young southerners with graduate debt especially so.

What we're seeing is a widening difference between those who are doing very well and those who are struggling with little hope.

Which is what I said in my initial comment.

We've likely seen such differences previously but, for example, whereas the 1980s were much easier for the southern middle class compared with the northern working class the opposite situation is now happening. Both surprising and ironic.

My pay rise is more than covering price rises.

I don't think that's the case for most working people, though, which is a problem for the government.

Remember to account for oldies and their triple lock pension increases.

As for workers there are some who are getting higher percentage pay rises than price rises and others who while getting lower percentage pay rises than price rises are getting higher monetary pay rises than price rises.

The key determinant of how well individuals are doing is pretty much their housing situation.

williamglenn

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.

Westie

HYUFD said:

Westie said:

Razedabode said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year

The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.

No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university

Agreed, but I didn't say Tory MPs were mostly poshos. An obnoxious baying c*** doesn't have to be a posho.

turbotubbs

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.

Which press is cheerleading Brexit now?

Leon

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

Look at the tweets I just posted from the USA, then compare them to Britain

Honestly, it’s ridiculous. The whole nation is having a nervous breakdown over some economic pain, and straining public services, but these are not akin to the catastrophes facing many other countries

eg We have nothing like the homeless/drug problem in America, a society ostensibly richer and ‘more successful’ than us

Get a grip, Britain

another_richard

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

I wonder if the bigger a country is the bigger the extremes within it are.

Biden is doing a much better job than I expected and much of the USA will be doing very well - often for similar reasons why much of the UK is doing very well.

BlancheLivermore

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.

I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm

ydoethur

Sandpit said:

dixiedean said:

Just discovered something interesting.
If SKS is elected PM any time after October 11 2024, and serves five years, he'll be the oldest sitting PM since Harold Macmillan.
Strange. You don't think of him as old.

Interesting. We have seen a succession of relatively young PMs, Mrs May (62 at resignation) being the oldest since Thatcher (66). Sunak, Truss, Cameron, Blair, and Major were all PM in their 40s, Johnson and Brown in their 50s.

On a point of pedantry:

Thatcher was 65 when she was booted out.

BlancheLivermore

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

Look at the tweets I just posted from the USA, then compare them to Britain

Honestly, it’s ridiculous. The whole nation is having a nervous breakdown over some economic pain, and straining public services, but these are not akin to the catastrophes facing many other countries

eg We have nothing like the homeless/drug problem in America, a society ostensibly richer and ‘more successful’ than us

Get a grip, Britain

Why is anyone surprised that they have less money than they would have had without a global pandemic and a major war?

Junior doctors should take a pay cut for being stupid enough to demand a 23% wage increase in these circumstances

another_richard

Does anyone know what the average monthly mortgage payment is currently ?

It says £753 here but it references March 2022 so likely significantly higher now.

https://www.money.co.uk/mortgages/uk-mortgage-statistics-and-facts#:~:text=The UK demonstrates a mean,April 2021 to March 2022.

Even so £753 is a huge difference between those who have to pay and those who no longer do so.

Omnium

BlancheLivermore said:

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.

I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm

It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.

BlancheLivermore

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.

I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm

It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.

I can see that it'd be a bad thing if participants to this site hadn't kept up with UK culture well enough to know that David Baddiel had written that book

Andy_JS

Any predictions for the Spanish election?

Foxy

turbotubbs said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Heathener said:

another_richard said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Gardenwalker said:

What is Rishi offering the country?
I asked this yesterday and received no answer.

He's offering not Truss and not Johnson. But as we saw with the polling, most people consider this Tory Party's period in Government a failure.

Honestly except gay marriage, what have they honestly achieved? They couldn't even overhaul the planning laws to get more masts built!

But don't underestimate how many people are doing very well.

Its the personalities of Conservative politicians which will bring them defeat not their policies.

The reason I got the Brexit vote right was that I listened to the kind of people who were disenfranchised by the Metropolitan elite, who were as tone deaf to the problems ordinary people were facing as you have appeared to be in your post. That's not meant to be offensive, I seriously mean it: you are totally out of touch.

Things are bloody hard right now with eye-watering price increases in the supermarkets and horrendous utility bills. And 'affordable housing'? You are having a total laugh, right? Rental prices have rocketed and there's a terrible scarcity. Mortgage costs have been steadily rising and there's a shaky undercurrent at the moment in the lending market. I know people who have lost mortgage deals in just the last week.

No, most people are NOT doing very well. It's really, really, tough.

Out of touch, or simply demented?

Here’s a word cloud of modern Britain, published today.


https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1663116848215347203?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

I’m not surprised. The constant barrage of negativity from the media ensures that.

Note that I am not implying all is rosy here, but the media have been in full on disaster mode since June 2016.

Ah, the classic "blame the media" defence, which rather ignores the Brexit cheerleading of most of our press.

Which press is cheerleading Brexit now?

They're not singing any more...

Omnium

BlancheLivermore said:

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Omnium said:

BlancheLivermore said:

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Roger said:

Even voters who consider stopping unfortunates on boats a necessity doesn't stop them disliking the insensitivity of politicians promoting it. When Michael Howard asked voters to admit to having the same prejudices against gypsies he had they told him where to go. The campaign bombed and so did he.

This is where Sunak finds himself

If Sunak finds himself in the same position as Michael Howard, no doubt we can expect Labour to run racist posters against him.

Point of order: the Fagin ones were antisemitic rather than racist.

Come on - antisemetism is racist.

Jews Don't Count

The quoting of book titles isn't always acceptable.

I'm unsure whether you're making a general point, or saying that I've crossed that line

If the latter, I'm not at all sure how

I imagined that Robert, as a very sensible chap, was making the same point as me but with sarcasm

It took me a while to understand your post. At first sight I didn't. And you can surely see how that's a bad thing.

I can see that it'd be a bad thing if participants to this site hadn't kept up with UK culture well enough to know that David Baddiel had written that book

Well I wasn't hitherto aware of it.

another_richard

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.

Not much opportunity for middle class flight from social problems in Singapore so they had an incentive to sort them.

eek

another_richard said:

Does anyone know what the average monthly mortgage payment is currently ?

It says £753 here but it references March 2022 so likely significantly higher now.

https://www.money.co.uk/mortgages/uk-mortgage-statistics-and-facts#:~:text=The UK demonstrates a mean,April 2021 to March 2022.

Even so £753 is a huge difference between those who have to pay and those who no longer do so.

Will he other figure it says was that the average mortgage is £193,000 which looking at he Halifax will cost you £1083 at least at the moment.

Sunil_Prasannan

bigjohnowls said:

Had a great couple of days on my Wembley trip. Will be drinking Bedford dry to celebrate the mighty Owls promotion. Noon checkout tomorrow looks like a good decision

SKS fans please explain!

Andy_JS

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

Did you visit San Francisco in the 1990s? I'd be interested to know what it was like at that time compared to now.

williamglenn

another_richard said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

Sooner or later someone will try Singapore-style policies in a major Western city.

Not much opportunity for middle class flight from social problems in Singapore so they had an incentive to sort them.

That’s a good point. Maybe these cities are doomed then and people who want something different will have to start again somewhere else.

Foxy

HYUFD said:

Westie said:

Razedabode said:

CorrectHorseBat said:

Heathener said:

Rishi is pretty awful. An extremely wealthy nonentity who is out of his depth. He comes across as a schoolboy.

In the last week we have seen more chaotic manoeuvring from Suella, an absolute shambles on immigration, and a quite extraordinary announcement about price capping, and there's a disturbing undercurrent in the mortgage / lending market. They are managing the singularly impressive feat of appealing to nobody.

The tories are toast. Everybody knows it. I doubt whether opinion polls will change much right up to the day of the General Election.

Rishi is fine. He's just not good enough to undo 13 years of failure

This. There’s nothing wrong with Rishi. It’s the rabble he leads and the Tory brand that have meant they have next to 0 chance next year

The parliamentary Tory party has consisted almost exclusively of obnoxious baying c***s, poshos, a few selfmade men who almost everybody likes to despise, and the occasional barrow boy with a funny haircut, ever since I can remember. We've gone from hug a hoodie to levelling up. That's how out of touch they are, for all their expenditure on focus groups. Almost all of them have complete contempt for the majority of the electorate. But they keep winning elections. I think they'll win the next one too. Immigration.

No they aren't. In 1997 most Tory MPs had been to private school and Oxbridge, now most Tory MPs have been to state school and non Oxbridge universities.

The Tory Parliamentary Party is much less posh than it was. Labour on the other hand has gone the other way. The number of Labour working class MPs who worked on the shop or factory floor or down the mines is a fraction of what it was 50-100 years ago. While the vast majority of Labour MPs are now middle class and went to university

In large part down to the decline in the numbers of people working down mines or or in factories any more, so hard to recruit as potential MPs. There are some who have been on working class service industry jobs, such as Rayner.

Leon

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Urban America is in free fall

The streets of San Francisco

https://twitter.com/clownworld_/status/1661794713320697857?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/4mischief/status/1663139738939711488?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

The streets of Chicago


https://twitter.com/abc7chicago/status/1663015439721529346?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

I wonder if the bigger a country is the bigger the extremes within it are.

Biden is doing a much better job than I expected and much of the USA will be doing very well - often for similar reasons why much of the UK is doing very well.

Large parts of America are really NOT doing well in a way we don’t comprehend in the UK

Seattle


https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1660758006420881409?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg


Portland

https://twitter.com/miss_misscat/status/1660466514804494337?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

New York

https://twitter.com/jeffyoungershow/status/1654513948899651587?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

Los Angeles

https://twitter.com/dawntj90/status/1629525612842065920?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

One more from Philadelphia

https://twitter.com/dailyloud/status/1662667431750385664?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg