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DeSantis raises $8.2m in first 24 hours after his WH2024 declaration – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Conservative voters still closer to Republican voters than Labour voters but yes both generally closer to the Democrats than Republicans. Indeed only RefUK and UKIP voters and DUP voters in UK politics would be Republicans in US terms (plus a few in the ERG like Mogg, Redwood, Truss and IDS).

    Generally most western nations even the centre right party is closer to the Democrats than the Republicans now post Trump, Trump basically being a populist Nationalist closer to Le Pen, Meloni or Farage than traditional conservatives
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,314
    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793

    BBC Question Time panel yesterday

    Laura Trott - Tory
    Peter Kyle - Red Tory
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Tory
    Theo Paphitis - Tory
    Fiona Bruce - Tory

    Since when did Janet Street Porter become a Tory? She was a proper old leftie in the 80s lol...
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    The question is, did you get inside any of the festival, if so what can you report?

    A friend of mine, who wrote the plays I acted in, went last week, went down to walk about because he likes to think he’s in the trade, but a selfie with Harrison Ford and a viewing of directors cut of Basic Instinct is all he managed.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,314

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Oddly quiet about the car incident at Downing Street yesterday. Any updates anywhere?

    Probably because it was just an accident.

    Unlike the (figurative) daily car crashes on the other side of the gate.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,247
    Pagan2 said:

    WillG said:

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Fascinating charts.
    The life expectancy thing must be wrong as we are told the nhs is institutionally racist. Either that or it is showing that the nhs lowers your life expectancy the more it cares about you
    One thing I've noticed - immigrants, in a number of cases, don't simply accept what the NHS gives them. So if they are given an appointment in six months time to see the consultant, they will not meekly accept that.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,066
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Punchy.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,576
    edited May 2023

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do.

    At my rowing club, we have 14 year olds who turn up at 6:30 each morning to row before school.

    Some of them are winning stuff already. There are a couple of them who will probably end up in a national boat.
    Success in sport is usually apparent at very young ages. Richard Hill (world cup winning flanker) was in my year at school and was clearly always going to make it as a rugby player. Played for the first team aged 14 (I think), so up to 4 years younger than many of them. Mo Farah won the mini London Marathon.

    You get a combination of a kid being really really good at something, combine it with lots of training and a lot of luck.

    I don't fully buy into Matthew Saed's idea of the 10,000 hours (or whatever number it is). Most people could put in the training but still wouldn't reach elite level. I used to run all the time, trained a lot and never ran faster than 54 minutes for a 10K. My body simply did not allow me to run fast. There is an envelope of what you can achieve - training will allow you to reach your limit, but not go beyond and if that limit isn't enough, you don't make it.
    Isn't the 10000 hrs to do with acquiring the skill. I mean if you are 4 ft 6 inches you are never going to win the high jump. Also I think it makes you expert not the best.

    Although I think a lot of it is luck with the sport you pick and the hours you put, in genetics is obviously very key. At Uni I knew Alistair Hignell's brother. Between the 3 siblings they represented their country or country in 5 sports. Talk about greedy
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,929
    edited May 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    WillG said:

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Fascinating charts.
    The life expectancy thing must be wrong as we are told the nhs is institutionally racist. Either that or it is showing that the nhs lowers your life expectancy the more it cares about you
    (Deleted unnecessary personal comment)

    Stats that were almost certainly the source for this article are here btw: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/articles/ethnicdifferencesinlifeexpectancyandmortalityfromselectedcausesinenglandandwales/2011to2014
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    On topic.

    Are The Anti-Trump GOP Forces Starting to Implode?
    A mission-control breakdown for DeSantis and smooth launch for Scott bode ill for those hoping to thwart the former president.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/26/are-the-anti-trump-gop-forces-starting-to-implode-00098934
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited May 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    yes you are right, there’s more than one economic approach abroad in the Tory Party, it’s not simply Tory v Labour, it’s whose in charge of Tory versus whose in charge of labour, Sunak Hunt v Starmer Reeves what is Parties official policy. Looking at her phone messages, Braverman probably brings an alternate policy to the cabinet table.

    But when you say “ Hunt is just doing as he's told” by who, and for what reason? My view is inflation killing recession kills the racketeering Greedinflation hiding in it at same time, so we should all back Hunt for this sensible reason? I’m excited to hear him he say it, providing he actually does it and not disconnect between say and do.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    Phil said:

    Pagan2 said:

    WillG said:

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Fascinating charts.
    The life expectancy thing must be wrong as we are told the nhs is institutionally racist. Either that or it is showing that the nhs lowers your life expectancy the more it cares about you
    Are you this unrelentingly negative in the rest of your life Pagan2, or just on here? Something to think about maybe?

    Stats that were almost certainly the source for this article are here btw: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/articles/ethnicdifferencesinlifeexpectancyandmortalityfromselectedcausesinenglandandwales/2011to2014
    sighs it is negative to make a comment on stats someone posts now? I suggest you just skip my posts if you dont like them as I don't really give a toss what you think
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited May 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136
    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    You also have to account for the amount of practice. People have favourite doubles and also practice hitting the bullseye. So it may be *smaller* and yet still *easier* for practiced players.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    All UK countries and regions saw their net fiscal balance improve in financial year ending 2022.

    However only London and the South East moved back into surplus.




    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1662013961955409920?s=20
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    No it's harder - the place erupts when I pull it off.

    The beautiful game.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,576
    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    It is a double for the purposes of a finish. It's classed as double 25 (25 being the score for the outer bull).

    Reclaims the PB darts crown less than half an hour after losing it.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Every day a school day on PB.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
    I guess it depends on whether the deviation from point of aim is greater vertically or horizontally, a bulleye being 12.8 mm vertically and horizontally whereas a double is 8mm top to bottom
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,576
    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
    I assume that off topic is a fat finger cos I don't see why everyone else can talk about darts and not me. Admittedly I know nothing about it but that has never stopped anyone else here before.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    It is a double for the purposes of a finish. It's classed as double 25 (25 being the score for the outer bull).

    Reclaims the PB darts crown less than half an hour after losing it.
    Dedicated to the memory of Martin Amis
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
    I assume that off topic is a fat finger cos I don't see why everyone else can talk about darts and not me. Admittedly I know nothing about it but that has never stopped anyone else here before.
    I know nothing about it either but didnt get off topiced so I think you can assume its a fat finger...or you have a pb nemesis
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I suspect he is losing overall, but I'd like to know what happened when he backed his side to lose.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
    I think those of us who lived through the Labour party split, the Gang of Four, the SDP, the elections of the 1980s, especially 1983, and who then contemplate who is likely to lead the next UK government will be slow to write off either the Tory or the Labour party.

    For either of them to disappear as a potential government party requires the emergence of a genuine alternative in a multi party democracy. The barriers to entry are set extremely high.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,633
    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The same could be said for food addiction which is where I suspect you are likely to be told you are wrong.

    FWIW I tend to agree with you and far too many "addictions" these days are not addictions but lack of self control, further examples would be video gaming and social media
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    I should be renamed CorrectHorseBuildPhoneMastsAndOverhaulPlanningBat
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
    People said the same about the Tories after 1997 or Labour after 2019 and 1983 but FPTP means the pendulum will always turn.

    Only if we had PR and Labour split into Blairite and Corbynite wings and the Tories split between Cameroon and ERG wings would neither win majorities again
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
    I assume that off topic is a fat finger cos I don't see why everyone else can talk about darts and not me. Admittedly I know nothing about it but that has never stopped anyone else here before.
    I was so tempted to off topic this post for a laugh :) But I have never off topiced anyone in all my years on PB and don't intend to start now even as a joke. It is the one feature I really dislike about this chat engine. I think it is pointless and is only ever used maliciously.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    TOPPING said:

    Every day a school day on PB.

    That comment could be taken in so many different ways :)
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919

    All UK countries and regions saw their net fiscal balance improve in financial year ending 2022.

    However only London and the South East moved back into surplus.




    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1662013961955409920?s=20

    Apologies for me showing my ignorance here. What does Net Fiscal Balance actually mean?
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    On topic

    DeSantis launch went better for him than the consensus I think, it certainly talked about and we all know the thing in politics worse than being talked about.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    Chris said:

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    I don't know what the article says because it's behind a paywall, but the ONS suggests a potential reason for the differences in life expectancy between different ethnic groups in the UK is that some groups contain more recent migrants than others, and migrants tend to be healthier on average.

    Looking at the US and UK comparisons, it seems plausible that is playing a role.
    I was just about to ask about that one as it surprised me.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578

    All UK countries and regions saw their net fiscal balance improve in financial year ending 2022.

    However only London and the South East moved back into surplus.




    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1662013961955409920?s=20

    Apologies for me showing my ignorance here. What does Net Fiscal Balance actually mean?
    Income raised minus expenditure spent.

    The thread sets out both - some interesting wriggles - Scotland comes well up the income rankings - but also well up the expenditure rankings too.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
    People said the same about the Tories after 1997 or Labour after 2019 and 1983 but FPTP means the pendulum will always turn.

    Only if we had PR and Labour split into Blairite and Corbynite wings and the Tories split between Cameroon and ERG wings would neither win majorities again
    They said the same about the Tories after Repeal of the Corn Laws and the Liberal landslide of 1906 - I think almost every democracy in western Europe and beyond have centre left and right parties on a 30% base which oscillates back and forth like the neap tides with the occasional spring. It's unlikely to change much for the forseeable future imho!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    I used to like cricket as a darts game.

    As PBs expert Kinabalu

    Whats the least possible number of darts to win that game?
    Ah so it seems I relinquish the title (after a reign of only 25 minutes) since I had to bing that one and I can't even guess the answer. Sounds a terrific variation though.
    Targets are only 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and the Bull.
    Once a player gets three marks, the number will be open to them only.
    A player scores points by hitting the area he/she opened.
    You can void your opponent's open area by getting three marks on the number.
    The player with the highest score when all numbers are closed or at the round limit, wins.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Pulpstar said:

    On topic

    DeSantis launch went better for him than the consensus I think, it certainly talked about and we all know the thing in politics worse than being talked about.

    'talked about' vs being 'laughed at' ?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919

    All UK countries and regions saw their net fiscal balance improve in financial year ending 2022.

    However only London and the South East moved back into surplus.




    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1662013961955409920?s=20

    Apologies for me showing my ignorance here. What does Net Fiscal Balance actually mean?
    Income raised minus expenditure spent.

    The thread sets out both - some interesting wriggles - Scotland comes well up the income rankings - but also well up the expenditure rankings too.
    Cheers
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited May 2023
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
    People said the same about the Tories after 1997 or Labour after 2019 and 1983 but FPTP means the pendulum will always turn.

    Only if we had PR and Labour split into Blairite and Corbynite wings and the Tories split between Cameroon and ERG wings would neither win majorities again
    They said the same about the Tories after Repeal of the Corn Laws and the Liberal landslide of 1906 - I think almost every democracy in western Europe and beyond have centre left and right parties on a 30% base which oscillates back and forth like the neap tides with the occasional spring. It's unlikely to change much for the forseeable future imho!
    Albeit in France the Socialists have now been overtaken by Melenchon's party and the conservatives by Le Pen's party with both squeezed by Macron's party. In Italy Meloni's party has overtaken Forza Italia as the main party of the right and in Canada in 1993 the Reform Party overtook the Progressive Conservatives as the main party of the right until they merged in 2003. In Greece too Syriza overtook Pasok as the main party of the left.

    So centre right or centre left parties can fall back out of the top 2 but normally only if overtaken by a more hardline right or left party, especially under non FPTP systems
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited May 2023
    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.

    The French system but with the possibility of laying into the market too.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    edited May 2023

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    It is a double for the purposes of a finish. It's classed as double 25 (25 being the score for the outer bull).

    Reclaims the PB darts crown less than half an hour after losing it.
    Dedicated to the memory of Martin Amis
    I was just thinking that - Keith Talent! Money was his masterpiece imo but London Fields was also a riot.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,633
    edited May 2023

    All UK countries and regions saw their net fiscal balance improve in financial year ending 2022.

    However only London and the South East moved back into surplus.




    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1662013961955409920?s=20

    Apologies for me showing my ignorance here. What does Net Fiscal Balance actually mean?
    A STATISTICS QUESTION!

    (jumps up and down with glee)

    The net fiscal balance is the difference between expenditure and revenue. If more is spent than recieved, then that is a net fiscal deficit. The UK's net fiscal deficit for 2022 was £122.1 billion, because it spent £122.1 billion more than it received.

    You can do that sum not just for the whole UK but also for the twelve countries and regions of the UK. Which is what that graph was for.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/countryandregionalpublicsectorfinances/financialyearending2022#net-fiscal-balance

    [Edit: superfluous text removed]
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    I used to like cricket as a darts game.

    As PBs expert Kinabalu

    Whats the least possible number of darts to win that game?
    Ah so it seems I relinquish the title (after a reign of only 25 minutes) since I had to bing that one and I can't even guess the answer. Sounds a terrific variation though.
    Targets are only 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and the Bull.
    Once a player gets three marks, the number will be open to them only.
    A player scores points by hitting the area he/she opened.
    You can void your opponent's open area by getting three marks on the number.
    The player with the highest score when all numbers are closed or at the round limit, wins.
    Absolutely brilliant. Next time I'm at Ye Olde Progressive Arms I'll seek to introduce this to the brethren.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If this were put into effect - literally - then the maths means that a long enough entirely random series of bets made by anyone will come out at Zero gains, Zero losses.

    The commercial consequences of this are obvious. The logic of the suggestion is fine - and it works fine for private use, but the industry would not exist in anything like its current form.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Was it not “it’s not working unless it’s hurting”?

    Jeremy Hunt has expertly opened up clear blue water with Labour, and put Labour on the back foot today hasn’t he, making them look like dangerous Trussite idiots. Labours Growth, Growth and yes, more growth of Reeves speech is now so yesterday, so wrong, so out of step with Hunt and Sunak, without beating inflation first before stoking all that heat in the economy to make us number one for growth in G7.

    How many days until Starmer and Reeves announce they too support BoE interest rates and Hunt’s withdrawing of credit support to UK, to engineer that recession?

    This is a big moment, a big story, I don’t know why PB babbling so much nothing and nonsense instead this morning, is this what happens when the suns out, it’s all gone “tits out for Whitsun” 🤷‍♀️
    Alternatively, Hunt is just doing as he's told, an engineered recession is on the cards, it won't matter to him because he won't be in office, and he doesn't give a monkeys about its impact on the electoral fortunes of the Tory Party, because he hates the party and the party hates him.
    Looks to me like the Tory party has pretty much destroyed itself, since 2015.

    I think it’s more likely than not that 2019 will be the party’s last ever majority. Evens, smells about right, to me.

    20% chance that it ceases to be a meaningful electoral force within a decade, imo.

    There is literally nothing that holds the party together.
    Only if the voting system improves.

    I heard this about Labour in the 1980s, and the Tories in the 2000s, and then about Labour again in the 2010s. The arguments sound convincing each time, but only because seeing changes the future tends to bring is difficult.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    edited May 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,279
    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.

    The French system but with the possibility of laying into the market too.
    A Government run bookies would be first in history to make sustained massive losses.

  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,229
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest German polling average

    CDU/CSU 29.4%
    SPD 18.1%
    AfD 16.2%
    Greens 15.3%
    FDP 7.4%
    Left 5.2%
    Others 8.4%

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahl_zum_21._Deutschen_Bundestag/Umfragen_und_Prognosen#Dynamische_Sonntagsfrage

    That would be an awkward result, similar to 2017 where Union-FDP-Greens failed to negotiate a coalition, leaving another Union-SPD grand coalition as the only option - which nobody wanted especially not the SPD.

    There's a big block of very floaty voters in Germany who will consider voting any of CDU or SPD or Green, at least outside Bavaria and the new Bundesländer where things are a bit different. Together they are on about 63% in this poll, which is pretty normal - they got nearly 65% between them at the last election.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    None. There'd be no betting industry. Like any other it has to make money.. Although if it were deemed an essential public good (like healthcare) the government could perhaps provide it on a no-profit basis. Better odds for punters, break even so no impact of the deficit. Worth thinking about. The Tote (for racing) is kind of a template. Renationalize and extend to all sports?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    Pulpstar said:

    On topic

    DeSantis launch went better for him than the consensus I think, it certainly talked about and we all know the thing in politics worse than being talked about.

    Labour's 2017 manifesto says "yep I know what you mean".
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Ban gambling advertising. It might not solve all of the problems, but I think it might help.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    Eastfield (North Yorkshire) council by-election result:

    IND: 46.4% (+46.4)
    LDEM: 26.1% (+26.1)
    LAB: 15.7% (-57.6)
    CON: 6.4% (-16.0)
    IND: 3.6% (+3.6)
    GRN: 1.8% (-2.5)

    Independent GAIN from Labour.

    Winning Ind was incumbent Corbyn supporting councillor who left Lab due to SKS.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,496
    edited May 2023
    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    Deep waters here.

    There is a fight by pressure groups for X to be recognised as a medical condition of some sort. The reason is simple: once X is a medical condition then: It isn't your fault; Moral considerations are transferred to others and away from you; It isn't a crime and you can't be sent to prison for it; The taxpayer must pay to treat you; You mustn't be discriminated against on account of it; You get to start a worthless charity with employees and salaries; You appear on R4 Today.

    More deep waters. For all I know bank robbers, rapists and paedophiles have as good a claim to be medicalised on account of their activities as fat people, gambling addicts, attention disorder people, narcissists, psychotics, autism sufferers, alcoholics etc.

    There is no real test for these things except politics, popularity, pragmatism and power.

    PS Obvs posting on PB deserves its own medical recognition.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,067
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Bull, treble 13, tops

    Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaame shot
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,067
    tlg86 said:

    Ban gambling advertising. It might not solve all of the problems, but I think it might help.

    Ban middle aged, middle class, moralisers.

    On the same basis.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
    He does have a bit of a “nanny” air to him.

    Oh well, better than the Kindergarden with the current lot……
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Bull, treble 13, tops

    Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaame shot
    If you hit 25 first dart, still got treble 18 bull as an option
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
    He does have a bit of a “nanny” air to him.

    Oh well, better than the Kindergarden with the current lot……
    Keystone Cops surely...?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Bull, treble 13, tops

    Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaame shot
    If you hit 25 first dart, still got treble 18 bull as an option
    Yep - always be thinking.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    Well I'd go treble 20, single 19, BULL.
    Is the bull easier than a double?
    bull is apparently only 2.8% of the dartboard area according to google but cant imagine a double isnt bigger though cant find a percentage for it
    If you can actually aim (unlike me) the shape of the target must matter I would think. A circle must be easier to hit than a strip. This would not be true if random so in my case it wouldn't make any difference, but for a skilled thrower it must. All to do with the area around the target within certain distances from the target. A strip will have more than a circle.
    I assume that off topic is a fat finger cos I don't see why everyone else can talk about darts and not me. Admittedly I know nothing about it but that has never stopped anyone else here before.
    I was so tempted to off topic this post for a laugh :) But I have never off topiced anyone in all my years on PB and don't intend to start now even as a joke. It is the one feature I really dislike about this chat engine. I think it is pointless and is only ever used maliciously.
    I never worry about "Off Topics". I suspect that most of mine come from PB's version of Vernon Dursley...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,852
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Boris Johnson has been given until the end of next week by MPs to explain why he believes that he did not break lockdown rules at Chequers and at previously unknown events in Downing Street.

    As well as referring claims against Johnson to two police forces last week, the Cabinet Office passed the allegations to the privileges committee. The committee is in the final stages of its investigation into whether the former prime minister misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties.....

    ....The committee, chaired by Harriet Harman, the former Labour deputy leader, is still determined to have completed its work by the time MPs leave parliament for their summer recess on July 20. Their draft report is likely to be complete by the end of June. Johnson will be sent any extracts that criticise him and be given a two-week period to submit a written response.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-has-a-week-to-explain-chequers-lockdown-party-claims-3kfxphdc0

    Don't care. Yes, egregious act, he made the rules, blah, blah but I think the country wants to move on from was there a glass of wine within 3.576 metres from your right hand on 4th May, etc.
    The people trying to re-litigate the pandemic, are just as bad as those trying to re-litigate the Brexit decision. We are where we are, let’s spend the effort working out how to make the country better in the future.
    The Inquiry is going to test your patience then.
    The inquiry is really important for looking at the public policy reactions to the next emergency.

    It shouldn’t be there to try and dissect minute-by-minute what individual politicians were doing, nor to attempt to blame individuals for mistakes they made under pressure.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    Deep waters here.

    There is a fight by pressure groups for X to be recognised as a medical condition of some sort. The reason is simple: once X is a medical condition then: It isn't your fault; Moral considerations are transferred to others and away from you; It isn't a crime and you can't be sent to prison for it; The taxpayer must pay to treat you; You mustn't be discriminated against on account of it; You get to start a worthless charity with employees and salaries; You appear on R4 Today.

    More deep waters. For all I know bank robbers, rapists and paedophiles have as good a claim to be medicalised on account of their activities as fat people, gambling addicts, attention disorder people, narcissists, psychotics, autism sufferers, alcoholics etc.

    There is no real test for these things except politics, popularity, pragmatism and power.

    PS Obvs posting on PB deserves its own medical recognition.
    I knew a man who stole £14m to fund a gambling addiction (actually, I suspect he stole a lot more, and much of the money was salted away in the IOM and Israel). He would have just loved to be able to present himself as a victim.

    He might just as well not have been punished, since he only spent 4 years in a variety of minimum security presions.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,470
    Has anyone ever confessed to being a gambling addict when they win the majority of their bets (which I know is unlikely)?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If this were put into effect - literally - then the maths means that a long enough entirely random series of bets made by anyone will come out at Zero gains, Zero losses.

    The commercial consequences of this are obvious. The logic of the suggestion is fine - and it works fine for private use, but the industry would not exist in anything like its current form.

    Gambling would be run by organised crime. The US' prohibition on off track betting is basically just a subsidy to organised crime and associated loan sharks.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
    There’s some very interesting thinking happening on the right, too. Louise Perry, one of the stars of the Nat-C conference, for example.

    I think we may well have reached peak “freedom”
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,633
    tlg86 said:

    Ban gambling advertising. It might not solve all of the problems, but I think it might help.

    "If it's legal you should be able to advocate for it"

    (I think its a paraphrase of John Stuart Mill. Apologies if it's Ayn Rand :( )
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,279
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone ever confessed to being a gambling addict when they win the majority of their bets (which I know is unlikely)?

    Not really, since I assume (and worry) I will always lose my stake and thus try and trade to win on any outcome. Also, I only ever bet what I can afford to lose.

    The stupid bets I make - that I never learn from - are on Eurovision and sport.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,668
    edited May 2023
    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    I'd keep those, but I'd ban bookmakers from discriminating against successful punters and trying to keep only mugs.

    Stake restrictions on successful punters, and account restrictions on being able to use marketing promotions like 'free bets if you do x' should be banned.

    A lot of restrictions the bookmakers do on successful punters is so they can be more predatory towards others without exposing their flank to people who might do well. That's not a level playing field.

    Bookmakers should be able to set out their stall, and offer odds or promotions, but everyone including those who are successful should be able to take part as a result. If that means that the bookmaker needs to be less predatory towards mugs in order to avoid sharks, then so be it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,279
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    No-one is really talking about debt anymore (as Cameron/Osborne did in 2010-2013 in particular) but it's far worse than then and we're spending almost as much on it as we are on the NHS.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    Hence why I'm deeply unimpressed with the "it's all about growth" mantra. Easy to say but only true if that 'growth' is sustainable and non-inflationary.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    No-one is really talking about debt anymore (as Cameron/Osborne did in 2010-2013 in particular) but it's far worse than then and we're spending almost as much on it as we are on the NHS.
    Our response to Covid cost us almost 20% of our GDP in debt and moved us from bad to terrible. Cameron's theory was to fix the roof when the sun was shining but it has, in fairness, been very overcast for a lot of years now, with the odd torrent.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,279
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    No-one is really talking about debt anymore (as Cameron/Osborne did in 2010-2013 in particular) but it's far worse than then and we're spending almost as much on it as we are on the NHS.
    Our response to Covid cost us almost 20% of our GDP in debt and moved us from bad to terrible. Cameron's theory was to fix the roof when the sun was shining but it has, in fairness, been very overcast for a lot of years now, with the odd torrent.
    You'd have thought this would be a profitable political line of attack by Sunak to put Labour on the back foot, but maybe he feels constrained by Covid and Truss.

    I'd still roll the dice on it though. Labour can't rack it up and tax is, obviously, the place they'll go to on top of a record tax burden.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    ping said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
    There’s some very interesting thinking happening on the right, too. Louise Perry, one of the stars of the Nat-C conference, for example.

    I think we may well have reached peak “freedom”
    I think we're well passed that peak.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,779

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    No-one is really talking about debt anymore (as Cameron/Osborne did in 2010-2013 in particular) but it's far worse than then and we're spending almost as much on it as we are on the NHS.
    Our response to Covid cost us almost 20% of our GDP in debt and moved us from bad to terrible. Cameron's theory was to fix the roof when the sun was shining but it has, in fairness, been very overcast for a lot of years now, with the odd torrent.
    You'd have thought this would be a profitable political line of attack by Sunak to put Labour on the back foot, but maybe he feels constrained by Covid and Truss.

    I'd still roll the dice on it though. Labour can't rack it up and tax is, obviously, the place they'll go to on top of a record tax burden.
    They will tax businesses and wealth creators until the pips squeak and the economy is well and truly fecked. This iteration of the Labour Party only cares about the public sector because they do not understand business and nor do they want to.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    Do you mean gilts are falling sharply ?

    Gilt rates would be going up I think...
    Yes. The interest rate the government has to pay on gilts to get them off the books at par is increasing because future interest rate and inflation rate expectations are rising. The value of current gilts, with lower interest rate coupons on them, have fallen.

    The sums involved in this are massive. The April figures were horrendous, mainly because the cost of servicing debt increased so sharply. Pretending that we can ignore inflation to try and get a bit more growth in the economy in the short term has very serious effects on government finances, much more severe than a mild recession. Which is, of course, why Germany has taken that option.
    Hence why I'm deeply unimpressed with the "it's all about growth" mantra. Easy to say but only true if that 'growth' is sustainable and non-inflationary.
    Yes, absolutely. It really depends on where you are starting from. What Truss and her few supporters seemed determined to refuse to acknowledge was that we are starting in a very bad place with debt already creeping up to 100% of GDP. If debt was, say, 30% of GDP there would be room for a much more expansionary policy but we are already dependent on the kindness of strangers and we have to ask them what they think first.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,779

    Eastfield (North Yorkshire) council by-election result:

    IND: 46.4% (+46.4)
    LDEM: 26.1% (+26.1)
    LAB: 15.7% (-57.6)
    CON: 6.4% (-16.0)
    IND: 3.6% (+3.6)
    GRN: 1.8% (-2.5)

    Independent GAIN from Labour.

    Winning Ind was incumbent Corbyn supporting councillor who left Lab due to SKS.

    But ...shirley, should you not ask his fans to explain?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Pinch of salt required perhaps, but I hope this report is correct. Certainly all the news of pilot training indicates something is in the air...

    "Netherlands Likely to Send F-16s to Ukraine After Pilot Training"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-26/netherlands-likely-to-send-f-16s-to-ukraine-after-pilot-training?srnd=premium-europe&leadSource=uverify wall
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,830
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    None. There'd be no betting industry. Like any other it has to make money.. Although if it were deemed an essential public good (like healthcare) the government could perhaps provide it on a no-profit basis. Better odds for punters, break even so no impact of the deficit. Worth thinking about. The Tote (for racing) is kind of a template. Renationalize and extend to all sports?
    Not quite true there would still be poker where the house just takes a rake from the pot
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,078
    HYUFD said:

    BBC Question Time panel yesterday

    Laura Trott - Tory
    Peter Kyle - Red Tory
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Tory
    Theo Paphitis - Tory
    Fiona Bruce - Tory

    That is from a Corbynite perspective, from a Faragite perspective

    Laura Trott - Cameroon Remainer
    Peter Kyle - Labour Remainer
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Remainer
    Theo Paphitis - Remainer, backed 2nd referendum
    Fiona Bruce - LD
    So for balance BJO- Corbynista Tory
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Recessions are deeply damaging, and their impact on tax receipts undermines the ability of Governments and Chancellors to balance the books. Jeremy Hunt is deeply toxic. To call him an idiot would be to pay him an undeserved compliment. Let's hope he has an even shorter lifespan in the job than Lamont had.
    This is just silly.

    UK underlying inflation is coming in higher than expected. Gilt rates are falling sharply in anticipation of further interest rate increases. This is driving the cost of government debt up and making the finances of the Treasury worse.

    No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation (and thus, indirectly, interest rates and thus, indirectly, gilt rates) is the absolute priority of the government. It would be a dereliction of duty to say anything else.
    “No Chancellor worth his salt is going to say anything other than bringing down inflation”

    Supporting the Tory recession to tame inflation is certainly not Reeves message this week - number one growth in G7 or bust is the Labour position.

    Suddenly there’s clear blue water on exactly the policies Gove said wins or loses elections.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    I'd keep those, but I'd ban bookmakers from discriminating against successful punters and trying to keep only mugs.

    Stake restrictions on successful punters, and account restrictions on being able to use marketing promotions like 'free bets if you do x' should be banned.

    A lot of restrictions the bookmakers do on successful punters is so they can be more predatory towards others without exposing their flank to people who might do well. That's not a level playing field.

    Bookmakers should be able to set out their stall, and offer odds or promotions, but everyone including those who are successful should be able to take part as a result. If that means that the bookmaker needs to be less predatory towards mugs in order to avoid sharks, then so be it.
    Not very free market of you, now, is it. I would have thought you would be a champion of people accepting (or rejecting, subject to applicable laws eg discrimination, etc) whatever customers they wanted.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,633
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    Deep waters here.

    There is a fight by pressure groups for X to be recognised as a medical condition of some sort. The reason is simple: once X is a medical condition then: It isn't your fault; Moral considerations are transferred to others and away from you; It isn't a crime and you can't be sent to prison for it; The taxpayer must pay to treat you; You mustn't be discriminated against on account of it; You get to start a worthless charity with employees and salaries; You appear on R4 Today.

    More deep waters. For all I know bank robbers, rapists and paedophiles have as good a claim to be medicalised on account of their activities as fat people, gambling addicts, attention disorder people, narcissists, psychotics, autism sufferers, alcoholics etc.

    There is no real test for these things except politics, popularity, pragmatism and power.

    PS Obvs posting on PB deserves its own medical recognition.
    Yes, and see my prev posts as to how diagnoses of autism should be limited to those that cannot realistically be expected to function. And you make a good point about testing which leads into my argument: the medical paradigm doesn't work in such cases. If we treat gambling addiction as a medical illness, then there will have to be researchers, differential diagnoses, studies, trials of treatments, measurements of success, accuracy of diagnoses, quality of life measurements, so on and so forth. It doesn't fit the paradigm.

    Consider. What would the surgical or medical cure for gambling addiction be? Do we get to cut out pieces of brains? Aversion therapy? Conferences in a reasonably good conference centre, with orange juice in the breaks, posters and a quiz night and last-night banquet? Will there be carrot cake?

    And all this because a rich man made daft decisions and a shrink wrote him a scrip.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,779
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    None. There'd be no betting industry. Like any other it has to make money.. Although if it were deemed an essential public good (like healthcare) the government could perhaps provide it on a no-profit basis. Better odds for punters, break even so no impact of the deficit. Worth thinking about. The Tote (for racing) is kind of a template. Renationalize and extend to all sports?
    I always think that one way we could make tax more popular would be to attach a winnings potential to it like the national lottery.

    There could also be an element of agency to it too. If you believe even more should be splurged at the NHS then you could opt to pay a higher rate and you could receive a medal called The VSFC (Virtue Signal, First Class) which you could wear on your lapel. This would be very popular amongst Liberal Democrats I think.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,208
    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    Deep waters here.

    There is a fight by pressure groups for X to be recognised as a medical condition of some sort. The reason is simple: once X is a medical condition then: It isn't your fault; Moral considerations are transferred to others and away from you; It isn't a crime and you can't be sent to prison for it; The taxpayer must pay to treat you; You mustn't be discriminated against on account of it; You get to start a worthless charity with employees and salaries; You appear on R4 Today.

    More deep waters. For all I know bank robbers, rapists and paedophiles have as good a claim to be medicalised on account of their activities as fat people, gambling addicts, attention disorder people, narcissists, psychotics, autism sufferers, alcoholics etc.

    There is no real test for these things except politics, popularity, pragmatism and power.

    PS Obvs posting on PB deserves its own medical recognition.
    Yes, and see my prev posts as to how diagnoses of autism should be limited to those that cannot realistically be expected to function. And you make a good point about testing which leads into my argument: the medical paradigm doesn't work in such cases. If we treat gambling addiction as a medical illness, then there will have to be researchers, differential diagnoses, studies, trials of treatments, measurements of success, accuracy of diagnoses, quality of life measurements, so on and so forth. It doesn't fit the paradigm.

    Consider. What would the surgical or medical cure for gambling addiction be? Do we get to cut out pieces of brains? Aversion therapy? Conferences in a reasonably good conference centre, with orange juice in the breaks, posters and a quiz night and last-night banquet? Will there be carrot cake?

    And all this because a rich man made daft decisions and a shrink wrote him a scrip.
    The alternative is to have a too difficult, go away diagnosis like fibromyalgia.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Ban gambling advertising. It might not solve all of the problems, but I think it might help.

    "If it's legal you should be able to advocate for it"

    (I think its a paraphrase of John Stuart Mill. Apologies if it's Ayn Rand :( )
    "Advocate for" sounds American, hence probably Ayn. It's an interesting point. Are there things which we think are undesirable enough for it to be illegal to promote them, but not so undesirable that practicing them should be illegal (perhaps because we fear a Prohibition effect)? Smoking?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,633

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    tlg86 said:

    My sympathy for Ivan Toney has gone down a little bit after reading some of this:

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12889780/ivan-toney-brentford-striker-diagnosed-with-gambling-addiction-as-fa-release-written-reasons-into-eight-month-ban

    The one piece of info that we don't have is, how successful was his betting? My guess is, not very, but would still like to know.

    It is fairly rare for consistently successful gamblers to seek treatment for this sad state of affairs.
    I realise that my view on this will not be shared by many, but I dispute the existence of a "diagnosed gambling addiction". Many people cannot control their impulses, but to translate that into a medical diagnosis is mistaken: the medical ecology (research, tests, studies, treatments) is not really suitable for things like this. We need to stop treating maladaptive/self-destructive behavior as diseases.
    The societal solution to this problem is for the government to outlaw the bookmakers edge.

    The zero on the roulette wheel, the overround on sports bets, the rtp% on slots should never have been legal.

    Outlaw it and the problems eventually go away. Problem is, it’s in everybody’s short and medium term interest to keep it.

    And so it remains.
    If you outlawed those how many book makers/sports books/casinos etc would there be?
    Oh yes, my solution would also almost certainly destroy British horse racing, too.
    My solution would be for games of subjective odds (Football, horse racing, politics etc) to just have essentially a gov't run betfair where the Gov't collects 5% rake.
    I'm expecting a crackdown on betting under a Starmer administration, sadly.
    Oh sod it, I give up. What is the point of Starmer? The gambling industry generates wealth and a source of taxation. You're supposed to milk the golden goose, not kill it.

This discussion has been closed.