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DeSantis raises $8.2m in first 24 hours after his WH2024 declaration – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,932
    .

    Lol. I didn't phrase it clearly to be fair.

    It is true I've had anger issues BTW, and I have treated some people on this site unfairly - sometimes I've come on here looking for a fight, due to stress - which I deeply regret. I'm aware there are real people at the other end of the keyboard and I shouldn't do it.

    I am seeing someone about this and reconsidering my current career path. I'd just appeal not to provoke or press my bruises too hard as it makes it harder to control.

    I was sorry to read this post and I am sorry for the difficulties you are going through. It takes a great amount of courage to discuss these issues openly so I really commend you for doing that.

    I will apologise for provoking you today if I did and at any other time, now I understand the situation I will do my very best to be aware of it as I hope you will also be for me.

    I am sure you will come out the other side, stay well.
    Thank you.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,475

    Farooq said:

    People who hat others are just Panamaniacs.

    Correct. They should just beret the hatchet.
    Why so sombrero?
    Indeed, why the long fez?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,392
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's an interview with me on Farming Today on the Government U-turn on live animal exports (leads the programme and then the full clip is at 9 mins 22): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001m4xk

    Nice programme. Were you on before or after King Charles who also seemed to be commenting on it.

    What do you think is the real reason behind it - as you acknowledge (at the moment) live animal exports are tiny.

    So what was the "scope creep"?
    The real reasons are (1) it was a Johnson/Eustice/Goldsmith thing and the current regime doesn't care either way and (2) they were worried about Tory rebels attaching amendments on unrelated subjects like non-stun slaughter and hunting. They have the numbers to defeat the rebels but didn't want the hassle. The proposed replacement is Bills in the next session which would be narrowly drawn to avoid amendment, but which may run out of time because of the election potentially interrupting the session.

    I didn't hear Charles! - but assume his thoughts are on a slightly wider scale :)
    Charles wasn't on the programme Nick, but someone (SOMEONE) who was on sounded an awfully lot like him...

    But let me get this straight - they were worried that Tory rebels would attach an amendment that said what exactly on, say, hunting? That it should be legalised or that eg trail hunting should be banned completely?

    A more effective ban - there is a 40-strong Tory group associated with the Conservative Animal Welfare Society which is strongly anti-hunt, so they're right that it would have been a close. There was an unofficial promise from the anti-hunt group not to use the Bill for that purpose, but the Government didn't trust them.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796

    JEZZA GAIN

    Well we just went and did it.
    Social Justice gain from Labour in the Eastfield (Scarborough) by-election
    Tony Randerson 499
    Lib Dem 281
    Lab 169
    Tory 69
    Far-right 39
    Green 19

    Is that your party now then, Social Justice?
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,057
    Ghedebrav said:

    Discussing woke is getting so boring.

    Anyone watching any cricket over the weekend?

    No, but also happy to change the subject!

    May I suggest planning regulations, or perhaps the merits of physical currency?
    Or perhaps Brexit, Radio 4 on Long Wave, county boundaries, reopening the Waverley line, the problem of heat pumps, the Overton window, when to prune roses, how to get from Carlisle to Barrow by train if you only have a week to spare, which personality types follow PB or when will Arsenal next win something.

  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,855
    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    I think it's worth deconstructing this post


    "Woke" is classifying everyone by identity group,

    Wrong straight off the bat. It's proponents describe it as being aware of social, especially racial, injustice. The habit and process of classifying people by identity group is much wider. You do it when it suits you, too.

    the hierarchy of which is determined by intersectionality, and ceasing to treat them as an individual;

    Wrong. Intersectionality is about understanding the interaction between different kinds of inequality. It starts from the assumption that addressing inequality is a good thing but that sometimes measures to do this can lead to harms against some peopleand that being aware of this helps mitigate it.

    it is a form of cultural marxism

    So you already know that the the term "cultural marxism" has a distinct anti-Semitic pedigree. It would probably be helpful to your own case for you to tell us what you mean by it so that people don't get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

    and is vindictive and censorious to anyone who disagrees with or challenges it. The standard form being, "so, you're a secret bigot then?" and thus raises the cost of opposition so high that people fold. Common sense is lost in the quest you seek, which is just to be fair to people. People stop thinking and start following.

    Some of that goes on, yes. But guess what? People are vindictive and censorious across a wide range of ideologies. What you're doing here is taking a large group of people and ceasing to treat them as an individual. Which is, uhh, well, what you purport to be criticising


    It leads to stupidity like all our statues being torn down, women having penises

    The Gender Recognition Act, 2004 holds that people can change their legal gender without havign undergone surgery. So yes, there are women with penises and men with uteri. Perhaps it's not legal gender you're referring to? In which case, clarification is welcome.

    , idiotic transgender laws in Scotland, museum collections being stripped away

    I'm a little unclear what collections you mean and what you say has happened to them. Keep in mind your own definition ("classifying everyone by identity group") unless you want to recant on that definition.

    , a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time,

    Maybe just ignore them like most people do? It's not hurting you.

    rolling attacks on the institutions and histories of Western nations as being fundamentally criminal and racist, and it weakens and polarises our civic society and hugely emboldens our enemies at the same time.

    Which enemies? Putin? Jihadis? To what extent do you think we should accommodate their views in our society?



    That is "Woke", and that is why I oppose it. It's stupid.

    Yes, the way you describe it, it is very stupid. But your description is hopelessly partial and perhaps a little incoherent on top.
    Bravo. Brilliant.
    But it isn't brilliant, is it?

    What's happened here is that Farooq has got emotional and really wanted to do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I said but couldn't really work out how to do one - so he's simply started with the conclusion he doesn't like what I'm saying about the problem, carved up my post into chunks and then posted some very vague challenges and questions and Whataboutery under each segment.

    You might be impressed by that. Others won't be because it has no substance to it.
    I think you have to accept by the number of lines @Farooq and @TOPPING got that you are wrong and others were impressed by it.
    What? Sorry while completely disregarding the topic as I can't even be bothered with it. You are seriously arguing that the number of likes people get makes them right and someone else wrong? What total and utter bollocks and so far beneath your normal standard. Just no stop....likes do not correspond to correctness that is just madness
    @Pagan2 Sometimes you shouldn't disregard the topic because it might be relevant!!!

    I think you need to read what Casino said.

    He said others would not be impressed by the post. Lots of people liked the post therefore others were impressed. Therefore he is wrong. QED.
    No because the only thing I addressed was the idea that someone getting more likes equalled being more correct. It is patently untrue and an idea that I would hope that all sides would dismiss. I would prefer in fact they took the like button away it is a measure of absolutely nothing.
    I think you are missing the point @Pagan2. Your point is correct and I would never argue against that.

    However it was not the issue here. Casino specifically said others would not not be impressed with a particular post. Others were impressed proved by the fact that they liked it which I pointed out in fun. Casino is now pointing out he is referring to other 'Others' which will of course be true in almost every circumstance. A good rescue on his part.

    This is like a logic course.

    And as far as you are concerned @Selebian , you bastard, hanging me to dry, I have that one logged 😀
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It leads to stupidity like ... a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time

    What's the problem with this?

    Judging people by characteristics is wrong. Its racist/sexist or whatever other -ist you want to use.

    But if people who are part of a group want themselves to celebrate something, then what is wrong with that?

    I am not religious, but I do not object to Christians celebrating Easter.
    I am not religious, but I do not object to Muslims celebrating Ramadan.
    I am not religious, but I do not object to Jews celebrating Yom Kippur
    I am not LGBTQ, but I do not object to those who are celebrating Pride.
    I am not Irish, but I do not object to those who are celebrating St Patricks Day.

    The calendar has always been full of celebrations. Saints Days litter the calendar. If any group wants their own celebration they're free to have it and there is not a single thing wrong with that.

    And if you want to join in you can, and if you don't you don't have to. I can leave presents under the tree at Christmas, put out an Easter egg trail at Easter, drink Guinness on Saint Patrick's Day and wear something with a rainbow on Pride. Or you can ignore it entirely if it doesn't mean anything to you, like I do with Yom Kippur or Ramadan.

    So long as the choice is yours whether you engage or not, there is nothing wrong with that. Let anyone who wants to celebrate anything they want do so - its a free society.
    It's the overreach Bart. Overreach is always a problem.

    Same as Prince Philip mourning for 2 weeks. Poppy facisim.
    What overreach?

    Pride isn't even a Bank Holiday. We get not one but two Bank Holidays for Easter and not one but two Bank Holidays for Christmas. And the shops are shut down by law for Christmas and Easter. I don't object to people wishing each other a Happy Easter or Merry Christmas though, I'll even join in despite not being religious. I'll even join in despite disliking and opposing religion.

    And interesting you mentioned the royalty as that's another example. We recently had the Coronation and a Bank Holiday for that too. I know you joined in that celebration and so did others. While others ignored it.

    That's the thing about celebrations, you can choose whether to join in or not, so long as there's no legal compulsion. Although the most compulsion on celebrations are those like Royal events, Christmas, Easter etc where the state shuts down many businesses and stops many employees going to work by law due to Bank Holidays.

    Society has had celebrations for thousands of years. As long as there's been a society, there's been celebrations. If you don't want to join in a celebration, you don't have to - but let people who do want to have their fun.
    Point of note plenty of shops open christmas day and easter so no shops are not shut by law as you claimed
    On a pedantic note, most larger shops are still required to close on Easter Day, much to the surprise of irreligious punters. As Easter can fall on any day between 22nd March and 25th April those who fail to study the complex rules (sun, moon, Passover, solstice all come into it) for fixing it will have to guess. Or buy a copy of the Book of Common Prayer 1662 which tells you the answers to this and much else.

    Then the correct sentence would have been "some shops are required to shut on christmas day". Most shops however are allowed to open as there are more small than large and I doubt there are many everyday goods such as food and alcohol you cant purchase on those days....buying a new sofa yes maybe out of luck but thats what online is for
    A sidenote on this; our culture is such that SFAICS it never occurs to anyone much that any shops might be open on Christmas Day, except for special exceptions things like motorway service stations; but the same mentality does not really apply to Easter for most people.

    I can remember when all shops were shut on Good Friday, except for fish shops, and bakers for hot cross buns. No racing. No papers. And that was in London!
    Well I have lived in the uk for over 50 years, never occurs to me I can't go buy bread/milk/alcohol etc on christmas day and hasn't for years not since my mid twenties certainly
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited May 2023
    On the other argument on this thread, I would only say this - a number of people make a lot of very firm statements which are both factually and legally untrue and refuse to be corrected, even when errors are pointed out to them. There are also some pretty unpleasant misogynistic responses.

    It makes debate both pointless and unpleasant.

    The sun is out again so I wish you all a good day and leave you with this joyful picture.




  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,855

    .

    Selebian said:

    .

    Selebian said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    I think it's worth deconstructing this post


    "Woke" is classifying everyone by identity group,

    Wrong straight off the bat. It's proponents describe it as being aware of social, especially racial, injustice. The habit and process of classifying people by identity group is much wider. You do it when it suits you, too.

    the hierarchy of which is determined by intersectionality, and ceasing to treat them as an individual;

    Wrong. Intersectionality is about understanding the interaction between different kinds of inequality. It starts from the assumption that addressing inequality is a good thing but that sometimes measures to do this can lead to harms against some peopleand that being aware of this helps mitigate it.

    it is a form of cultural marxism

    So you already know that the the term "cultural marxism" has a distinct anti-Semitic pedigree. It would probably be helpful to your own case for you to tell us what you mean by it so that people don't get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

    and is vindictive and censorious to anyone who disagrees with or challenges it. The standard form being, "so, you're a secret bigot then?" and thus raises the cost of opposition so high that people fold. Common sense is lost in the quest you seek, which is just to be fair to people. People stop thinking and start following.

    Some of that goes on, yes. But guess what? People are vindictive and censorious across a wide range of ideologies. What you're doing here is taking a large group of people and ceasing to treat them as an individual. Which is, uhh, well, what you purport to be criticising


    It leads to stupidity like all our statues being torn down, women having penises

    The Gender Recognition Act, 2004 holds that people can change their legal gender without havign undergone surgery. So yes, there are women with penises and men with uteri. Perhaps it's not legal gender you're referring to? In which case, clarification is welcome.

    , idiotic transgender laws in Scotland, museum collections being stripped away

    I'm a little unclear what collections you mean and what you say has happened to them. Keep in mind your own definition ("classifying everyone by identity group") unless you want to recant on that definition.

    , a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time,

    Maybe just ignore them like most people do? It's not hurting you.

    rolling attacks on the institutions and histories of Western nations as being fundamentally criminal and racist, and it weakens and polarises our civic society and hugely emboldens our enemies at the same time.

    Which enemies? Putin? Jihadis? To what extent do you think we should accommodate their views in our society?



    That is "Woke", and that is why I oppose it. It's stupid.

    Yes, the way you describe it, it is very stupid. But your description is hopelessly partial and perhaps a little incoherent on top.
    Bravo. Brilliant.
    But it isn't brilliant, is it?

    What's happened here is that Farooq has got emotional and really wanted to do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I said but couldn't really work out how to do one - so he's simply started with the conclusion he doesn't like what I'm saying about the problem, carved up my post into chunks and then posted some very vague challenges and questions and Whataboutery under each segment.

    You might be impressed by that. Others won't be because it has no substance to it.
    I think you have to accept by the number of lines @Farooq and @TOPPING got that you are wrong and others were impressed by it.
    What? Sorry while completely disregarding the topic as I can't even be bothered with it. You are seriously arguing that the number of likes people get makes them right and someone else wrong? What total and utter bollocks and so far beneath your normal standard. Just no stop....likes do not correspond to correctness that is just madness
    No, but it is direct evidence against "You might be impressed by that. Others won't be." kjh said nothing about it indicating right or wrong.

    Assuming we are talking about 'likes'. I read kjh's comment at face value and thought perhaps good posts were getting rewarded with lines [of coke?] now.
    It is evidence that a certain group of people currently on the site and reading the post are willing to go public with what they're impressed by because they want to back their side.

    I think 'others' is being misread here as meaning absolutely anyone else, whereas what was actually meant is that there will be a whole group of people who aren't impressed and disagree, even if they don't show themselves.
    Ah yes, the silent majority :wink:

    I take your point though. Your comment can be read two ways - "no others will be" or "there will be others that are not". The second is no doubt true.

    So, I retract my support for kjh and hang him out to dry. Sorry kjh, you're on your own now.
    Lol. I didn't phrase it clearly to be fair.

    It is true I've had anger issues BTW, and I have treated some people on this site unfairly - sometimes I've come on here looking for a fight, due to stress - which I deeply regret. I'm aware there are real people at the other end of the keyboard and I shouldn't do it.

    I am seeing someone about this and reconsidering my current career path. I'd just appeal not to provoke or press my bruises too hard as it makes it harder to control.
    Nice post @Casino_Royale . Good luck with it.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,670
    edited May 2023
    Selebian said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    I think it's worth deconstructing this post


    "Woke" is classifying everyone by identity group,

    Wrong straight off the bat. It's proponents describe it as being aware of social, especially racial, injustice. The habit and process of classifying people by identity group is much wider. You do it when it suits you, too.

    the hierarchy of which is determined by intersectionality, and ceasing to treat them as an individual;

    Wrong. Intersectionality is about understanding the interaction between different kinds of inequality. It starts from the assumption that addressing inequality is a good thing but that sometimes measures to do this can lead to harms against some peopleand that being aware of this helps mitigate it.

    it is a form of cultural marxism

    So you already know that the the term "cultural marxism" has a distinct anti-Semitic pedigree. It would probably be helpful to your own case for you to tell us what you mean by it so that people don't get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

    and is vindictive and censorious to anyone who disagrees with or challenges it. The standard form being, "so, you're a secret bigot then?" and thus raises the cost of opposition so high that people fold. Common sense is lost in the quest you seek, which is just to be fair to people. People stop thinking and start following.

    Some of that goes on, yes. But guess what? People are vindictive and censorious across a wide range of ideologies. What you're doing here is taking a large group of people and ceasing to treat them as an individual. Which is, uhh, well, what you purport to be criticising


    It leads to stupidity like all our statues being torn down, women having penises

    The Gender Recognition Act, 2004 holds that people can change their legal gender without havign undergone surgery. So yes, there are women with penises and men with uteri. Perhaps it's not legal gender you're referring to? In which case, clarification is welcome.

    , idiotic transgender laws in Scotland, museum collections being stripped away

    I'm a little unclear what collections you mean and what you say has happened to them. Keep in mind your own definition ("classifying everyone by identity group") unless you want to recant on that definition.

    , a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time,

    Maybe just ignore them like most people do? It's not hurting you.

    rolling attacks on the institutions and histories of Western nations as being fundamentally criminal and racist, and it weakens and polarises our civic society and hugely emboldens our enemies at the same time.

    Which enemies? Putin? Jihadis? To what extent do you think we should accommodate their views in our society?



    That is "Woke", and that is why I oppose it. It's stupid.

    Yes, the way you describe it, it is very stupid. But your description is hopelessly partial and perhaps a little incoherent on top.
    Bravo. Brilliant.
    But it isn't brilliant, is it?

    What's happened here is that Farooq has got emotional and really wanted to do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I said but couldn't really work out how to do one - so he's simply started with the conclusion he doesn't like what I'm saying about the problem, carved up my post into chunks and then posted some very vague challenges and questions and Whataboutery under each segment.

    You might be impressed by that. Others won't be because it has no substance to it.
    I think you have to accept by the number of lines @Farooq and @TOPPING got that you are wrong and others were impressed by it.
    What? Sorry while completely disregarding the topic as I can't even be bothered with it. You are seriously arguing that the number of likes people get makes them right and someone else wrong? What total and utter bollocks and so far beneath your normal standard. Just no stop....likes do not correspond to correctness that is just madness
    @Pagan2 Sometimes you shouldn't disregard the topic because it might be relevant!!!

    I think you need to read what Casino said.

    He said others would not be impressed by the post. Lots of people liked the post therefore others were impressed. Therefore he is wrong. QED.
    No because the only thing I addressed was the idea that someone getting more likes equalled being more correct. It is patently untrue and an idea that I would hope that all sides would dismiss. I would prefer in fact they took the like button away it is a measure of absolutely nothing.
    But no one has made the argument that you are arguing against!
    Pretty much a definition of the anti-wokistas, on here at least. The dearth of folk forwarding woke arguments as opposed to saying stop boring on about woke is notable, the number of red faced blokes swinging at phantoms otoh..
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,057
    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It leads to stupidity like ... a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time

    What's the problem with this?

    Judging people by characteristics is wrong. Its racist/sexist or whatever other -ist you want to use.

    But if people who are part of a group want themselves to celebrate something, then what is wrong with that?

    I am not religious, but I do not object to Christians celebrating Easter.
    I am not religious, but I do not object to Muslims celebrating Ramadan.
    I am not religious, but I do not object to Jews celebrating Yom Kippur
    I am not LGBTQ, but I do not object to those who are celebrating Pride.
    I am not Irish, but I do not object to those who are celebrating St Patricks Day.

    The calendar has always been full of celebrations. Saints Days litter the calendar. If any group wants their own celebration they're free to have it and there is not a single thing wrong with that.

    And if you want to join in you can, and if you don't you don't have to. I can leave presents under the tree at Christmas, put out an Easter egg trail at Easter, drink Guinness on Saint Patrick's Day and wear something with a rainbow on Pride. Or you can ignore it entirely if it doesn't mean anything to you, like I do with Yom Kippur or Ramadan.

    So long as the choice is yours whether you engage or not, there is nothing wrong with that. Let anyone who wants to celebrate anything they want do so - its a free society.
    It's the overreach Bart. Overreach is always a problem.

    Same as Prince Philip mourning for 2 weeks. Poppy facisim.
    What overreach?

    Pride isn't even a Bank Holiday. We get not one but two Bank Holidays for Easter and not one but two Bank Holidays for Christmas. And the shops are shut down by law for Christmas and Easter. I don't object to people wishing each other a Happy Easter or Merry Christmas though, I'll even join in despite not being religious. I'll even join in despite disliking and opposing religion.

    And interesting you mentioned the royalty as that's another example. We recently had the Coronation and a Bank Holiday for that too. I know you joined in that celebration and so did others. While others ignored it.

    That's the thing about celebrations, you can choose whether to join in or not, so long as there's no legal compulsion. Although the most compulsion on celebrations are those like Royal events, Christmas, Easter etc where the state shuts down many businesses and stops many employees going to work by law due to Bank Holidays.

    Society has had celebrations for thousands of years. As long as there's been a society, there's been celebrations. If you don't want to join in a celebration, you don't have to - but let people who do want to have their fun.
    Point of note plenty of shops open christmas day and easter so no shops are not shut by law as you claimed
    On a pedantic note, most larger shops are still required to close on Easter Day, much to the surprise of irreligious punters. As Easter can fall on any day between 22nd March and 25th April those who fail to study the complex rules (sun, moon, Passover, solstice all come into it) for fixing it will have to guess. Or buy a copy of the Book of Common Prayer 1662 which tells you the answers to this and much else.

    Then the correct sentence would have been "some shops are required to shut on christmas day". Most shops however are allowed to open as there are more small than large and I doubt there are many everyday goods such as food and alcohol you cant purchase on those days....buying a new sofa yes maybe out of luck but thats what online is for
    A sidenote on this; our culture is such that SFAICS it never occurs to anyone much that any shops might be open on Christmas Day, except for special exceptions things like motorway service stations; but the same mentality does not really apply to Easter for most people.

    I can remember when all shops were shut on Good Friday, except for fish shops, and bakers for hot cross buns. No racing. No papers. And that was in London!
    Well I have lived in the uk for over 50 years, never occurs to me I can't go buy bread/milk/alcohol etc on christmas day and hasn't for years not since my mid twenties certainly
    Not quite the case in my Amish backwater. Have you tried catching a train by any chance?
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    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,834

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's an interview with me on Farming Today on the Government U-turn on live animal exports (leads the programme and then the full clip is at 9 mins 22): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001m4xk

    Nice programme. Were you on before or after King Charles who also seemed to be commenting on it.

    What do you think is the real reason behind it - as you acknowledge (at the moment) live animal exports are tiny.

    So what was the "scope creep"?
    The real reasons are (1) it was a Johnson/Eustice/Goldsmith thing and the current regime doesn't care either way and (2) they were worried about Tory rebels attaching amendments on unrelated subjects like non-stun slaughter and hunting. They have the numbers to defeat the rebels but didn't want the hassle. The proposed replacement is Bills in the next session which would be narrowly drawn to avoid amendment, but which may run out of time because of the election potentially interrupting the session.

    I didn't hear Charles! - but assume his thoughts are on a slightly wider scale :)
    Charles wasn't on the programme Nick, but someone (SOMEONE) who was on sounded an awfully lot like him...

    But let me get this straight - they were worried that Tory rebels would attach an amendment that said what exactly on, say, hunting? That it should be legalised or that eg trail hunting should be banned completely?

    A more effective ban - there is a 40-strong Tory group associated with the Conservative Animal Welfare Society which is strongly anti-hunt, so they're right that it would have been a close. There was an unofficial promise from the anti-hunt group not to use the Bill for that purpose, but the Government didn't trust them.
    Thank you.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,834
    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    It will still be called too woke.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,057
    The Guardian is covering a big story about someone who crochets hats for pillar boxes. The Manchester Slave Owners Daily Argus has finally cracked. Watch out for Polly Toynbee on 'How to knit bedsocks for that special man in your life'.


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/26/experience-im-britains-dullest-woman


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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,314
    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's an interview with me on Farming Today on the Government U-turn on live animal exports (leads the programme and then the full clip is at 9 mins 22): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001m4xk

    Nice programme. Were you on before or after King Charles who also seemed to be commenting on it.

    What do you think is the real reason behind it - as you acknowledge (at the moment) live animal exports are tiny.

    So what was the "scope creep"?
    The real reasons are (1) it was a Johnson/Eustice/Goldsmith thing and the current regime doesn't care either way and (2) they were worried about Tory rebels attaching amendments on unrelated subjects like non-stun slaughter and hunting. They have the numbers to defeat the rebels but didn't want the hassle. The proposed replacement is Bills in the next session which would be narrowly drawn to avoid amendment, but which may run out of time because of the election potentially interrupting the session.

    I didn't hear Charles! - but assume his thoughts are on a slightly wider scale :)
    Charles wasn't on the programme Nick, but someone (SOMEONE) who was on sounded an awfully lot like him...

    But let me get this straight - they were worried that Tory rebels would attach an amendment that said what exactly on, say, hunting? That it should be legalised or that eg trail hunting should be banned completely?

    A more effective ban - there is a 40-strong Tory group associated with the Conservative Animal Welfare Society which is strongly anti-hunt, so they're right that it would have been a close. There was an unofficial promise from the anti-hunt group not to use the Bill for that purpose, but the Government didn't trust them.
    Thank you.
    I think the non stun slaughter amendment would make most voters happy
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,855

    .

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    I think it's worth deconstructing this post


    "Woke" is classifying everyone by identity group,

    Wrong straight off the bat. It's proponents describe it as being aware of social, especially racial, injustice. The habit and process of classifying people by identity group is much wider. You do it when it suits you, too.

    the hierarchy of which is determined by intersectionality, and ceasing to treat them as an individual;

    Wrong. Intersectionality is about understanding the interaction between different kinds of inequality. It starts from the assumption that addressing inequality is a good thing but that sometimes measures to do this can lead to harms against some peopleand that being aware of this helps mitigate it.

    it is a form of cultural marxism

    So you already know that the the term "cultural marxism" has a distinct anti-Semitic pedigree. It would probably be helpful to your own case for you to tell us what you mean by it so that people don't get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

    and is vindictive and censorious to anyone who disagrees with or challenges it. The standard form being, "so, you're a secret bigot then?" and thus raises the cost of opposition so high that people fold. Common sense is lost in the quest you seek, which is just to be fair to people. People stop thinking and start following.

    Some of that goes on, yes. But guess what? People are vindictive and censorious across a wide range of ideologies. What you're doing here is taking a large group of people and ceasing to treat them as an individual. Which is, uhh, well, what you purport to be criticising


    It leads to stupidity like all our statues being torn down, women having penises

    The Gender Recognition Act, 2004 holds that people can change their legal gender without havign undergone surgery. So yes, there are women with penises and men with uteri. Perhaps it's not legal gender you're referring to? In which case, clarification is welcome.

    , idiotic transgender laws in Scotland, museum collections being stripped away

    I'm a little unclear what collections you mean and what you say has happened to them. Keep in mind your own definition ("classifying everyone by identity group") unless you want to recant on that definition.

    , a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time,

    Maybe just ignore them like most people do? It's not hurting you.

    rolling attacks on the institutions and histories of Western nations as being fundamentally criminal and racist, and it weakens and polarises our civic society and hugely emboldens our enemies at the same time.

    Which enemies? Putin? Jihadis? To what extent do you think we should accommodate their views in our society?



    That is "Woke", and that is why I oppose it. It's stupid.

    Yes, the way you describe it, it is very stupid. But your description is hopelessly partial and perhaps a little incoherent on top.
    Bravo. Brilliant.
    But it isn't brilliant, is it?

    What's happened here is that Farooq has got emotional and really wanted to do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I said but couldn't really work out how to do one - so he's simply started with the conclusion he doesn't like what I'm saying about the problem, carved up my post into chunks and then posted some very vague challenges and questions and Whataboutery under each segment.

    You might be impressed by that. Others won't be because it has no substance to it.
    I think you have to accept by the number of lines @Farooq and @TOPPING got that you are wrong and others were impressed by it.
    What? Sorry while completely disregarding the topic as I can't even be bothered with it. You are seriously arguing that the number of likes people get makes them right and someone else wrong? What total and utter bollocks and so far beneath your normal standard. Just no stop....likes do not correspond to correctness that is just madness
    @Pagan2 Sometimes you shouldn't disregard the topic because it might be relevant!!!

    I think you need to read what Casino said.

    He said others would not be impressed by the post. Lots of people liked the post therefore others were impressed. Therefore he is wrong. QED.

    Of course under any other circumstances you would be completely correct and thank you for the kind comment about the standard of my posts
    The population of others is wider than those who like the post. A typical pb thread gets between 10k-30k views (probably 10% of that below the line) so you are inferring that 6 out of 1-3k is representative.

    It is not representative. Plenty of people simply can't be arsed with the subject or the hassle for very obvious reasons.

    Your post is telling because you want me to be wrong and to close down the discussion - hence the QED. That suggests a certain level of discomfort about having the discussion at all, and that will be because you fear there is actually something in it.
    Casino. I take your point on the definition of others. It can be read two ways

    Can you please stop doing what you do in the last para. It is what gets people to respond to you in the way they sometimes do. The point of using QED wasn't telling. You completely misread it. I am not sensitive about the discussion at all. It was a joke in the first place. My background was as a mathematician. I studied primarily logic. I made a series of logical statements. I ended it with QED which I would always do. In this case it wasn't even in response to you but @Pagan2 and whose post I enjoyed.

    You often seem to read some psychological background to the poster in the way they respond to you that just isn't there. I have no emotional attachment to my posts today. Just having some banter. You are reading to much into it.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,116

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
  • Options
    .

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    I think you're meant to ask consent first.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    Pagan2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's an interview with me on Farming Today on the Government U-turn on live animal exports (leads the programme and then the full clip is at 9 mins 22): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001m4xk

    Nice programme. Were you on before or after King Charles who also seemed to be commenting on it.

    What do you think is the real reason behind it - as you acknowledge (at the moment) live animal exports are tiny.

    So what was the "scope creep"?
    The real reasons are (1) it was a Johnson/Eustice/Goldsmith thing and the current regime doesn't care either way and (2) they were worried about Tory rebels attaching amendments on unrelated subjects like non-stun slaughter and hunting. They have the numbers to defeat the rebels but didn't want the hassle. The proposed replacement is Bills in the next session which would be narrowly drawn to avoid amendment, but which may run out of time because of the election potentially interrupting the session.

    I didn't hear Charles! - but assume his thoughts are on a slightly wider scale :)
    Charles wasn't on the programme Nick, but someone (SOMEONE) who was on sounded an awfully lot like him...

    But let me get this straight - they were worried that Tory rebels would attach an amendment that said what exactly on, say, hunting? That it should be legalised or that eg trail hunting should be banned completely?

    A more effective ban - there is a 40-strong Tory group associated with the Conservative Animal Welfare Society which is strongly anti-hunt, so they're right that it would have been a close. There was an unofficial promise from the anti-hunt group not to use the Bill for that purpose, but the Government didn't trust them.
    Thank you.
    I think the non stun slaughter amendment would make most voters happy
    Think about where that might go. Think religious slaughter.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,850
    algarkirk said:

    The Guardian is covering a big story about someone who crochets hats for pillar boxes. The Manchester Slave Owners Daily Argus has finally cracked. Watch out for Polly Toynbee on 'How to knit bedsocks for that special man in your life'.


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/26/experience-im-britains-dullest-woman


    It's a feature - no different from the feel good story at the end of a news bulletin or Nationwide (for those old enough to remember that).

    And those knitted hats do bring people joy so I wouldn't be so snotty.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,962
    edited May 2023

    .

    Selebian said:

    .

    Selebian said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    I think it's worth deconstructing this post


    "Woke" is classifying everyone by identity group,

    Wrong straight off the bat. It's proponents describe it as being aware of social, especially racial, injustice. The habit and process of classifying people by identity group is much wider. You do it when it suits you, too.

    the hierarchy of which is determined by intersectionality, and ceasing to treat them as an individual;

    Wrong. Intersectionality is about understanding the interaction between different kinds of inequality. It starts from the assumption that addressing inequality is a good thing but that sometimes measures to do this can lead to harms against some peopleand that being aware of this helps mitigate it.

    it is a form of cultural marxism

    So you already know that the the term "cultural marxism" has a distinct anti-Semitic pedigree. It would probably be helpful to your own case for you to tell us what you mean by it so that people don't get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

    and is vindictive and censorious to anyone who disagrees with or challenges it. The standard form being, "so, you're a secret bigot then?" and thus raises the cost of opposition so high that people fold. Common sense is lost in the quest you seek, which is just to be fair to people. People stop thinking and start following.

    Some of that goes on, yes. But guess what? People are vindictive and censorious across a wide range of ideologies. What you're doing here is taking a large group of people and ceasing to treat them as an individual. Which is, uhh, well, what you purport to be criticising


    It leads to stupidity like all our statues being torn down, women having penises

    The Gender Recognition Act, 2004 holds that people can change their legal gender without havign undergone surgery. So yes, there are women with penises and men with uteri. Perhaps it's not legal gender you're referring to? In which case, clarification is welcome.

    , idiotic transgender laws in Scotland, museum collections being stripped away

    I'm a little unclear what collections you mean and what you say has happened to them. Keep in mind your own definition ("classifying everyone by identity group") unless you want to recant on that definition.

    , a rolling calendar of identity group celebrations that are both ubiquitous and facile at the same time,

    Maybe just ignore them like most people do? It's not hurting you.

    rolling attacks on the institutions and histories of Western nations as being fundamentally criminal and racist, and it weakens and polarises our civic society and hugely emboldens our enemies at the same time.

    Which enemies? Putin? Jihadis? To what extent do you think we should accommodate their views in our society?



    That is "Woke", and that is why I oppose it. It's stupid.

    Yes, the way you describe it, it is very stupid. But your description is hopelessly partial and perhaps a little incoherent on top.
    Bravo. Brilliant.
    But it isn't brilliant, is it?

    What's happened here is that Farooq has got emotional and really wanted to do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I said but couldn't really work out how to do one - so he's simply started with the conclusion he doesn't like what I'm saying about the problem, carved up my post into chunks and then posted some very vague challenges and questions and Whataboutery under each segment.

    You might be impressed by that. Others won't be because it has no substance to it.
    I think you have to accept by the number of lines @Farooq and @TOPPING got that you are wrong and others were impressed by it.
    What? Sorry while completely disregarding the topic as I can't even be bothered with it. You are seriously arguing that the number of likes people get makes them right and someone else wrong? What total and utter bollocks and so far beneath your normal standard. Just no stop....likes do not correspond to correctness that is just madness
    No, but it is direct evidence against "You might be impressed by that. Others won't be." kjh said nothing about it indicating right or wrong.

    Assuming we are talking about 'likes'. I read kjh's comment at face value and thought perhaps good posts were getting rewarded with lines [of coke?] now.
    It is evidence that a certain group of people currently on the site and reading the post are willing to go public with what they're impressed by because they want to back their side.

    I think 'others' is being misread here as meaning absolutely anyone else, whereas what was actually meant is that there will be a whole group of people who aren't impressed and disagree, even if they don't show themselves.
    Ah yes, the silent majority :wink:

    I take your point though. Your comment can be read two ways - "no others will be" or "there will be others that are not". The second is no doubt true.

    So, I retract my support for kjh and hang him out to dry. Sorry kjh, you're on your own now.
    Lol. I didn't phrase it clearly to be fair.

    It is true I've had anger issues BTW, and I have treated some people on this site unfairly - sometimes I've come on here looking for a fight, due to stress - which I deeply regret. I'm aware there are real people at the other end of the keyboard and I shouldn't do it.

    I am seeing someone about this and reconsidering my current career path. I'd just appeal not to provoke or press my bruises too hard as it makes it harder to control.
    I would just say that you have my full respect for your comments and would send my best wishes to you in addressing these issues

    As you may know my eldest son (57) attended ground zero at the Christchurch earthquake and was traumatised by what he witnessed.

    However the earthquake was in 2011 but it was only in 2019 while returning to New Zealand from his home in Vancouver that on laying flowers at the recent mosque outrage he collapsed and was rushed to Christchurch hospital

    He was diagnosed with anxiety and PTSD and suffered greatly despite treatment including electric shock sessions and we effectively lost him for 3 years as he hid in his room. However, recently with the love of his family and effective treatment he has begun his road to recovery including visiting us over Christmas with his wife

    I recount this story as so many are suffering mental health and other issues and your way to recovery has clearly started and I absolutely support you on this path

    I would say there are times that some posters do seem to enjoy personal abuse against others, and it is wholly unnecessary. It is good to discuss and disagree but in a respectful manner to other views
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
    Surely the assumption that they are women is grossly anti-woke?

    They might have been men, but pre-op.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,314

    .

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    I think you're meant to ask consent first.
    How very english, Roger is however in France a counry where trying it on is a presidential sine qua non
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,015

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Good
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
    Surely the assumption that they are women is grossly anti-woke?

    They might have been men, but pre-op.
    also true but you can usually tell by looking for the giveaways
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,288

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Taz said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Good
    Too woke for some. How are you Taz.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,825

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    Keep your gaze at eye level, as you wish them bonjour.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    Keep your gaze at eye level, as you wish them bonjour.
    Depending on where your eye level is
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    I gather that motorsport’s masculinity is being challenged. And I see no reason why not.

    Darts has a problem in that large amounts of lager seem to be required on the way up but IIRC women are now getting to the top of the sport.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,228
    HYUFD said:

    Not the headline Rishi would have wanted.

    Chancellor comfortable with recession if it brings down inflation

    Jeremy Hunt says he feels an obligation to support the Bank of England in its decisions, as a way of ensuring prosperity and economic growth.


    https://news.sky.com/story/chancellor-comfortable-with-recession-if-it-brings-down-inflation-12889607

    Similar to what Norman Lamont said in the early 1990s
    Not really. He said he spotted green shoots of recovery - he was right but pilloried for being insensitive or something
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    Wonder how big are their penii
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    Keep your gaze at eye level, as you wish them bonjour.
    As long as Roger isn't 4 foot 10...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    @Casino_Royale I'm not sure I should be posting after @Farooq effort and particularly as I have also been posting to the wrong thread so I am feeling rather inadequate, but here we go in response to your reply to me on the last thread:

    a) You complained of ad hominem. Why? I assume because I directed you to the anti woke alert texts. Not sure why you are offended by this as it is an excellent service for those offended by woke and was just a joke (well I thought it funny).
    b) You complained about non sequitur. Where?
    c) You complained about reference to the 50s. Note I said 'some' not 'all' which is clearly true and I don't think it is true of you.
    d) Your reply also did not deal with the content, but started with 'It is clear to me...' and then comment about the person posting, not the content of their post. You do this a lot in making judgement about people, often without any knowledge of whether they accurate. We don't all fit into neat little groups.
    e) Really an extension of d) but responses seem to rely on use of 'strawman, as hominem, non sequitur, etc rather than pointing out where something doesn't logically follow. It would help me because sometimes I have to look up what phrases or Latin words mean.

    @Casino_Royale has a habit of attacking the player when he hasn't an answer to the questions being asked.

    Others round here including @malcolmg do the same but at least his insults are usually funny.
    And then accuses others of doing the same thing…
    And up yours arse**le @CorrectHorseBat
    Don't knock it until you have tried it ;)
    I have resisted so far and will continue to do so but everyone to their ownand all that.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,199
    BBC Question Time panel yesterday

    Laura Trott - Tory
    Peter Kyle - Red Tory
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Tory
    Theo Paphitis - Tory
    Fiona Bruce - Tory

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796
    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
    You might have thought so but there have been champions with both types of throws, the flat bullet and the looping floater.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
    You might have thought so but there have been champions with both types of throws, the flat bullet and the looping floater.
    I will take your word for it as I have spent more of my life watching paint dry than watching darts admittedly
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    @Casino_Royale I'm not sure I should be posting after @Farooq effort and particularly as I have also been posting to the wrong thread so I am feeling rather inadequate, but here we go in response to your reply to me on the last thread:

    a) You complained of ad hominem. Why? I assume because I directed you to the anti woke alert texts. Not sure why you are offended by this as it is an excellent service for those offended by woke and was just a joke (well I thought it funny).
    b) You complained about non sequitur. Where?
    c) You complained about reference to the 50s. Note I said 'some' not 'all' which is clearly true and I don't think it is true of you.
    d) Your reply also did not deal with the content, but started with 'It is clear to me...' and then comment about the person posting, not the content of their post. You do this a lot in making judgement about people, often without any knowledge of whether they accurate. We don't all fit into neat little groups.
    e) Really an extension of d) but responses seem to rely on use of 'strawman, as hominem, non sequitur, etc rather than pointing out where something doesn't logically follow. It would help me because sometimes I have to look up what phrases or Latin words mean.

    @Casino_Royale has a habit of attacking the player when he hasn't an answer to the questions being asked.

    Others round here including @malcolmg do the same but at least his insults are usually funny.
    F*** off Bellend, WTF have I got to do with Fcuknuggets arguing over whose handbag is the best. @eek
    Morning Malc 😇
    Morning Gin
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796
    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    There have - but not too many tbf.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,218
    Latest German polling average

    CDU/CSU 29.4%
    SPD 18.1%
    AfD 16.2%
    Greens 15.3%
    FDP 7.4%
    Left 5.2%
    Others 8.4%

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahl_zum_21._Deutschen_Bundestag/Umfragen_und_Prognosen#Dynamische_Sonntagsfrage
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    Farooq said:

    I also don't think we should focus on likes. As Casino correctly says, we are not a representative sample of the population.

    Speak for yourself, I am not a weirdo.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Oddly quiet about the car incident at Downing Street yesterday. Any updates anywhere?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do.

    At my rowing club, we have 14 year olds who turn up at 6:30 each morning to row before school.

    Some of them are winning stuff already. There are a couple of them who will probably end up in a national boat.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
    You might have thought so but there have been champions with both types of throws, the flat bullet and the looping floater.
    I will take your word for it as I have spent more of my life watching paint dry than watching darts admittedly
    Yes I am a darts fan as it happens. Not much I don't know about the noble art.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,218

    NEW POLL: Labour lead at 14 points

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 30% (+1)
    LibDem 11% (+1)
    Reform 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,625 questioned on 24-25 May.

    +/- 17-18 May.

    https://twitter.com/techneUK/status/1661990689620606976

    This means 4 out of the last 5 polls have put the Tories on 30%. Seems to suggest they'll get at least 35% at the GE, which would be -10% from 2019. If all of that goes to Labour they should win a small majority, but it's a big if.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    That is Woke
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
    You might have thought so but there have been champions with both types of throws, the flat bullet and the looping floater.
    That one post has doubled or perhaps tripled my knowledge of darts.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    Oddly quiet about the car incident at Downing Street yesterday. Any updates anywhere?

    Some poor sod had a bump and the rozzers went radio rental and had him down as Osama Bin Lid trying to pot a Tory. If only there were as efficient with criminals and bampots that block the roads etc.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do.

    At my rowing club, we have 14 year olds who turn up at 6:30 each morning to row before school.

    Some of them are winning stuff already. There are a couple of them who will probably end up in a national boat.
    Success in sport is usually apparent at very young ages. Richard Hill (world cup winning flanker) was in my year at school and was clearly always going to make it as a rugby player. Played for the first team aged 14 (I think), so up to 4 years younger than many of them. Mo Farah won the mini London Marathon.

    You get a combination of a kid being really really good at something, combine it with lots of training and a lot of luck.

    I don't fully buy into Matthew Saed's idea of the 10,000 hours (or whatever number it is). Most people could put in the training but still wouldn't reach elite level. I used to run all the time, trained a lot and never ran faster than 54 minutes for a 10K. My body simply did not allow me to run fast. There is an envelope of what you can achieve - training will allow you to reach your limit, but not go beyond and if that limit isn't enough, you don't make it.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
    If it was Glasgow and sun shining it would be the man with the teeshirt that would be worth commenting on
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    I hadn't noticed girls eschewing pubs if I am honest so not sure the not female orientated comment is warranted
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Darts it's hard to believe there's an inherent difference.* Probably just many more men playing?

    Snooker does still have the issue of reach, so there may be a general rule that men (on average taller) will do (on average) better. But no reason there should not be a female snooker world champion one day, you'd think.

    Motorsport is still pretty physical at the top end, is it not? So not so sure about that. Michèle Mouton, of course, did very well in WRC.

    *inability to cultivate a decent beer belly to lower centre of gravity may be an issue :wink: But there have been slim darts champions, have there not?
    Darts I suspect has a strength element. The stronger the throw the flatter the trajectory which I would expect to make accuracy better
    You might have thought so but there have been champions with both types of throws, the flat bullet and the looping floater.
    I will take your word for it as I have spent more of my life watching paint dry than watching darts admittedly
    Yes I am a darts fan as it happens. Not much I don't know about the noble art.
    I was back in the day , aka Jocky Wilson , but imagine I would be lucky to hit the board nowadays.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    malcolmg said:

    Oddly quiet about the car incident at Downing Street yesterday. Any updates anywhere?

    Some poor sod had a bump and the rozzers went radio rental and had him down as Osama Bin Lid trying to pot a Tory. If only there were as efficient with criminals and bampots that block the roads etc.
    I don't buy that as an explanation - you don't accidentally drive into the Downing Street gates, surely?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    malcolmg said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
    If it was Glasgow and sun shining it would be the man with the teeshirt that would be worth commenting on
    Girls often walk about topless in Glasgow? I knew about Newcastle but not Glasgow!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,199
    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    I used to like cricket as a darts game.

    As PBs expert Kinabalu

    Whats the least possible number of darts to win that game?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    For a moment OKC I thought you were commenting on Cannes post, but saw it was not gymnastics at the end.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,116
    Andy_JS said:

    NEW POLL: Labour lead at 14 points

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 30% (+1)
    LibDem 11% (+1)
    Reform 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,625 questioned on 24-25 May.

    +/- 17-18 May.

    https://twitter.com/techneUK/status/1661990689620606976

    This means 4 out of the last 5 polls have put the Tories on 30%. Seems to suggest they'll get at least 35% at the GE, which would be -10% from 2019. If all of that goes to Labour they should win a small majority, but it's a big if.
    “Seems to suggest they'll get at least 35% at the GE”

    Does it? 😆
  • Options
    jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 699

    JEZZA GAIN

    Well we just went and did it.
    Social Justice gain from Labour in the Eastfield (Scarborough) by-election
    Tony Randerson 499
    Lib Dem 281
    Lab 169
    Tory 69
    Far-right 39
    Green 19

    Or - a very popular local councillor, who won his seat as Labour but has since left, won as an independent.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,796

    Lol. I didn't phrase it clearly to be fair.

    It is true I've had anger issues BTW, and I have treated some people on this site unfairly - sometimes I've come on here looking for a fight, due to stress - which I deeply regret. I'm aware there are real people at the other end of the keyboard and I shouldn't do it.

    I am seeing someone about this and reconsidering my current career path. I'd just appeal not to provoke or press my bruises too hard as it makes it harder to control.

    Sorry to see this CR. I empathise. I too have come on here (and on Twitter, Facebook etc etc) looking for a fight when at low points due to stress and been really unforgivably rude to some people. I hope that your experience is shared makes you feel a bit better about things. You're definitely not alone.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Thank you.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    edited May 2023
    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814
  • Options

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:

    [Snip]

    Well said and this is why anyone hoping for an RDS-style "anti-woke" crusade helping the Tories is on a hiding to nothing.

    It will annoy more could-be Tories like myself than it will attract extra votes.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    I also don't think we should focus on likes. As Casino correctly says, we are not a representative sample of the population.

    Speak for yourself, I am not a weirdo.
    You are undeniably extraordinary, though.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    I hadn't noticed girls eschewing pubs if I am honest so not sure the not female orientated comment is warranted
    Sadly it’s been a while since I could get to a pub but my recollection is that darts weren’t why girls went to them.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    I hadn't noticed girls eschewing pubs if I am honest so not sure the not female orientated comment is warranted
    Sadly it’s been a while since I could get to a pub but my recollection is that darts weren’t why girls went to them.
    Do men go to them to play darts, or do they go there and there are darts available so they try it out. Initially this is. I accept once they have the bug they may well go specifically to play darts however it seems to me at least the gateway is equally open
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:

    [Snip]

    Well said and this is why anyone hoping for an RDS-style "anti-woke" crusade helping the Tories is on a hiding to nothing.

    It will annoy more could-be Tories like myself than it will attract extra votes.
    I think it depends on the issue - attempts at shutting down debate by labelling disagreement as “Culture War” can backfire when it comes down to issues of fairness - see today’s news on women’s cycling for example.

    https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20230526-about-bc-static-Update--Transgender-and-Non-Binary-Participation-policies-0
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,796
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Is an intergalactic arsehole one of those regions of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, including light or other electromagnetic waves, has enough energy to escape it? Does our galaxy revolve around an intergalactic arsehole? We need to know.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,834
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    That Scottish bloke?
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Is an intergalactic arsehole one of those regions of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, including light or other electromagnetic waves, has enough energy to escape it? Does our galaxy revolve around an intergalactic arsehole? We need to know.

    No thats a black hole not a brown hole
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    malcolmg said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    I was quite enjoying this woke not woke stuff. I haven't quite got my head round it yet......

    I went to the Cannes film festival on Wednesday and three girls were doing a synchronised walk down the Croisette topless. (It's tricky grabbing attention)

    The question is what would the correct woke response be?

    To check if they have a penis, then you might get your head round it
    If that’s your thing.
    If its a mention worthy thing that 3 women are walking topless but wouldn't be commented on if it was 3 men walking topless then it probably shows that the mentioner is not as woke as they consider themselves
    If it was Glasgow and sun shining it would be the man with the teeshirt that would be worth commenting on
    Girls often walk about topless in Glasgow? I knew about Newcastle but not Glasgow!
    OKC it does say MAN. Girls are very demure in Glasgow.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    That Scottish bloke?
    NO Foreskin
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,834
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    That Scottish bloke?
    NO Foreskin
    Ah sorry there are two posters on here who always go at it with each other and I get them mixed up.
  • Options
    mickydroymickydroy Posts: 271

    JEZZA GAIN

    Well we just went and did it.
    Social Justice gain from Labour in the Eastfield (Scarborough) by-election
    Tony Randerson 499
    Lib Dem 281
    Lab 169
    Tory 69
    Far-right 39
    Green 19

    Or - a very popular local councillor, who won his seat as Labour but has since left, won as an independent.
    What I think BJO fails to see, is although certainly Corbyn energised his side to vote in 2017, he also and especially in 2019, he trurbocharged the other side to vote, where Starmer is probably doing well is people who voted tory in 2019, are now reluctant to vote for them, and are not repulsed by Starmer,
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,872
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Is an intergalactic arsehole one of those regions of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, including light or other electromagnetic waves, has enough energy to escape it? Does our galaxy revolve around an intergalactic arsehole? We need to know.

    No thats a black hole not a brown hole
    In French they are the same thing ... hence the problem of discussing hairiness of black holes, as attested by the physicist Kip THorne.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,834
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    I also don't think we should focus on likes. As Casino correctly says, we are not a representative sample of the population.

    Speak for yourself, I am not a weirdo.
    You are undeniably extraordinary, though.
    This is true Nigel , I totally agree with you.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Thank you.
    You flatter yourself , you are a mere commoner garden one.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    mickydroy said:

    JEZZA GAIN

    Well we just went and did it.
    Social Justice gain from Labour in the Eastfield (Scarborough) by-election
    Tony Randerson 499
    Lib Dem 281
    Lab 169
    Tory 69
    Far-right 39
    Green 19

    Or - a very popular local councillor, who won his seat as Labour but has since left, won as an independent.
    What I think BJO fails to see, is although certainly Corbyn energised his side to vote in 2017, he also and especially in 2019, he trurbocharged the other side to vote, where Starmer is probably doing well is people who voted tory in 2019, are now reluctant to vote for them, and are not repulsed by Starmer,
    As someone unashamedly right wing I would be more likely to vote for Corbyn than starmer despite corbyns dubiousness on antisemitism.

    Simple reason is same as why I won't vote tory and havent since 2010....fed up with people who want to be pm because they think they would be rather good at it. Starmer doesn't have vision for how to fix the country, neither does Sunak, Davey, Cameron, Boris etc.

    Now do I think Corbyn's vision was wrong yes....however he at least had one and who know's maybe he was right and I was wrong.

    What I do know is more of the same is not going to pull the country out the hole its sinking into.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK SO WE'RE ALL FRIENDS NOW ARE WE?

    @MALCOLMG???? What is your position on this?

    I was not involved in the first place, dragged in without comment on one of the most boring topics on earth.
    I am always friends apart from the one intergalactic arsehole on the site
    Is an intergalactic arsehole one of those regions of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing, including light or other electromagnetic waves, has enough energy to escape it? Does our galaxy revolve around an intergalactic arsehole? We need to know.

    I would never ever want to revolve round the gammony one I am talking about , run over , squash perhaps but not revolve.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,488
    Andy_JS said:

    NEW POLL: Labour lead at 14 points

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 30% (+1)
    LibDem 11% (+1)
    Reform 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,625 questioned on 24-25 May.

    +/- 17-18 May.

    https://twitter.com/techneUK/status/1661990689620606976

    This means 4 out of the last 5 polls have put the Tories on 30%. Seems to suggest they'll get at least 35% at the GE, which would be -10% from 2019. If all of that goes to Labour they should win a small majority, but it's a big if.
    Looking to both main parties being in the 30s come conference season.

    Game on.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,972
    edited May 2023

    BBC Question Time panel yesterday

    Laura Trott - Tory
    Peter Kyle - Red Tory
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Tory
    Theo Paphitis - Tory
    Fiona Bruce - Tory

    That is from a Corbynite perspective, from a Faragite perspective

    Laura Trott - Cameroon Remainer
    Peter Kyle - Labour Remainer
    Munira Wilson LD
    Janet Street-Porter - Remainer
    Theo Paphitis - Remainer, backed 2nd referendum
    Fiona Bruce - LD
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,223

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Fascinating charts.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,796

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    I used to like cricket as a darts game.

    As PBs expert Kinabalu

    Whats the least possible number of darts to win that game?
    Ah so it seems I relinquish the title (after a reign of only 25 minutes) since I had to bing that one and I can't even guess the answer. Sounds a terrific variation though.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,370

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    I don't know what the article says because it's behind a paywall, but the ONS suggests a potential reason for the differences in life expectancy between different ethnic groups in the UK is that some groups contain more recent migrants than others, and migrants tend to be healthier on average.

    Looking at the US and UK comparisons, it seems plausible that is playing a role.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,462
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    BREAKING: Transgender women will be banned from competing in British Cycling’s competitive women’s events in changes that will see the men’s category become an open one.

    Seems a sensible approach. There is too much potential advantage in having gone through puberty as a male then transitioning, even if current testosterone levels are lowered, the physique has developed. Should be the case in any sport where physique matters.
    The funny thing is that sex matters even when physique does not. The world darts champion is a bloke; likewise snooker and various motor sports. Lack of opportunity? Role models? Discrimination?

    If I were running a girls' school (which thank the Lord I'm not sir) I'd invest in a dartboard and snooker table.
    Prowess in darts comes from devoting your adolescence to it. Hours and hours every day, on the oche throwing arrows at that board. It's intense and takes a mono-minded dedication, eschewing all else.

    "You coming to the park, we're going boating?"
    "No, I've got darts. Working on my double tops."

    If girls were to start doing this in numbers I have little doubt it wouldn't be long before there'd be a Moira Van Gherkin.
    Most sports require that sort of dedication I suspect if you want to get to the top
    They do. But the venues for darts aren't typically that female-oriented. Hence why Decrepiter's idea of getting oches and boards into girls schools could pay dividends.
    Would do wonders for their mental arithmetic!
    Yep. 5 seconds max to compute how to close out 129 finishing on your favourite double. And no calculators allowed. Soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
    And the answer is?
    treble 20, treble 19 , double 6
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,104
    WillG said:

    John Burn Murdoch on why Britain and America are divided by more than a common language:








    https://www.ft.com/content/a2050877-124a-472d-925a-fc794737d814

    Fascinating charts.
    The life expectancy thing must be wrong as we are told the nhs is institutionally racist. Either that or it is showing that the nhs lowers your life expectancy the more it cares about you
This discussion has been closed.