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So Moggsy admits that voter ID WAS Tory gerrynandering – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    ydoethur said:

    Hurrah.

    Jonny Bairstow is set to be selected as England’s wicketkeeper for the Ashes and regain the Test gloves for the first time since 2021, with Ben Foakes out in the cold.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/05/15/england-ashes-news-jonny-bairstow-wicketkeeper-ben-foakes/

    Bairstow can't buy a run this season and he's been keeping pretty badly too (his untidiness was one reason why Yorkshire lost to Durham).

    If the England selectors do this they're even stupider than I thought they were.
    As you've written him off a time or two before, I'm hoping that's the famous reverse mockers in operation.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    .

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pork markets ?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399
    kle4 said:

    I did call this out as blatant gerrymandering, and PB Tories threw in every excuse under the sun. Turns out it IS gerrymandering and JRM is calling it out for what it is.

    With Cruella making her thinly-veiled pitch for the leadership should Sunak wake up dead, its not going to be a happy camp inside the Tory party this summer.

    There is the original definition of gerrymandering around manipulating boundaries, and I think some of us are a little beholden to that particular definition, when it definitely gets used more casually to refer to any measure designed to influence the electoral process for partisan advantage.

    Or at least any unfair measure - a proposal might benefit one side more than another, whilst also delivering a fairer outcome, if the thing being changed was not.
    Boundaries are set based on the number of electors. After the event, this exercise reduces the number of electors. Which means the boundaries would be incorrect of done again. It is gerrymandering...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,008
    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    He served with distinction in David Cameron’s cabinet.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,412
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Leicester fans singing God Save The King and getting drowned out by the Liverpool fans singing Liverpool.

    Don't the rest of us plebs need saving? Stupid so-called "national" "anthem"!
    All Liverpool fans are an unpatriotic disgrace. Being shown up in manners by Leicester.

    This will obviously be ten nil to Liverpool on the pitch.

    Is the main reason Leicester went down the owners wealth comes from duty free shops in airports, and they had a bad pandemic? Contributing factors over long expensive contracts, and money wasted in players not in first team games?
    Does singing the national anthem count as the single only definition of patriotism in your opinion?

    My own definition of patriotism is probably slightly different to yours. My own view of patriotism is a belief in the greater good of my country.

    I think the Tories and their Brexit brand, vandal, violent nihilism, has ruined this country for a generation, maybe more. I find that daily the Tories complete incompetent, short term, survivalist factionalism is contradictory to any common good. And like Brexit, it continues to damage peoples lives and the economic wellbeing of the UK.

    I find the Liverpool fans booing the national anthem an inoffensive form of satire, and harmless making fun of an anachronistic institution that deserves to be ribbed. The Tories on the other hand destroy people lives and livelihoods.

    If a nation cannot handle a little booing of its anthem it is pretty weak as nations go, rather insecure.

    I feel that way about religion as well, when people get violent or aggressive about people who don't even follow that religion not adhering to their personal interpretation of it - they (and some outsiders) think it shows strength of their faith, whilst I think it shows them to have the mentality of a child, lashing out as they secretly fear the thing they seek to defend is so weak it cannot bear mockery.
    And those who have no respect for their own anthem, culture or religious morality will soon lead to the weakening and ultimately collapse of that very nation like the collapse of the Roman Empire
    This almost sounds like you are taking Gibbon's argument that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is attributable, in part, to the abandonment of Pagan beliefs and the embrace of Christianity.

    On a wider note, you have shown yourself time and time again to be utterly clueless when it comes to understanding history. It would appear on the surface from what you've just that you don't have the first notion about the fall of the Roman Empire, which is on brand but so very tiresome when there's a wealth of material out there. If you could just tear your eyes away from YouGov crosstabs for five minutes.
    A study of the actual patriotic beliefs and feelings of the various groups identifying as “Roman Citizens” and “Allies” through the Republic and Empire would be interesting.

    The Social War always interested me, in how it fitted into that, for both sides.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    I think "Marxist liberal" is to right-wing people what "fascist" is to left-wing people: a defined term that's been ripped from its original meaning and now flaps in the wind untethered - a reference without a referent.
    I'm not sure it is a defined term, I have never heard of it and I think it would be hard from an ideological point of view to be both. The appropriate term for someone with the kind of views I think it is talking about is Libertarian Socialist. I think it's just something from the American hard Right, along the lines of Cultural Marxist, maybe an effort to avoid the antisemitic origins of the latter phrase. In the US Liberal means left wing, it doesn't have the classical liberalism connotations it does here so Marxist liberal would make a bit much more sense in a US context (although the Liberal part is tautological rather than contradictory), whereas here it doesn't make any sense at all.
    I've heard it several times - from HYUFD.
    It's just random abuse, possibly intended humorously, but impossible to tell.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    edited May 2023
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    The Qattara depression idea has been around for some time. It was proposed at one time to use nukes to move the rocks and build a canal. Eisenhower vetoed the idea. There are lots of variations on what can be done. Tunnel boring machines can cut through the rocks, a canal can be dug with a turbine power station to catch the energy flow. Lots of great ideas but for whatever reason nobody gets on with it.
    If the Foreign Secretary was of any practical use, we'd be doing something to further the plans. And it would be a great deal easier to model the effects than it was a decade or two back.

    It's complicated (particularly the Israel/Jordan plan) because it involves international politics. They are also quite long term projects which would require substantial international funding.
    But the potential economic and geopolitical upsides, not to mention climate change mitigation, are enormous.
    well yes, but the ball sits with the Egyptian government, there are enough international funds around to get this off the ground.

    The other project I like to keep an eye on is the falling price of desalination. The Israelis ( who else ?) are now on their fourth generation desalination plant and are upscaling each time. The net result is that the cost of desalination keeps dropping, the plant at Ashdod will provide 15% of Israels needs. This feels like wind power or solar just before they got going. If the trans continues reduce the cost of water it could have major benefits world wide.

    https://www.water-technology.net/projects/ashdod-desalination-plant-ashdod/
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    He served with distinction in David Cameron’s cabinet.
    He talks about that time….
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,204
    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    Link?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Leicester fans singing God Save The King and getting drowned out by the Liverpool fans singing Liverpool.

    Don't the rest of us plebs need saving? Stupid so-called "national" "anthem"!
    All Liverpool fans are an unpatriotic disgrace. Being shown up in manners by Leicester.

    This will obviously be ten nil to Liverpool on the pitch.

    Is the main reason Leicester went down the owners wealth comes from duty free shops in airports, and they had a bad pandemic? Contributing factors over long expensive contracts, and money wasted in players not in first team games?
    Does singing the national anthem count as the single only definition of patriotism in your opinion?

    My own definition of patriotism is probably slightly different to yours. My own view of patriotism is a belief in the greater good of my country.

    I think the Tories and their Brexit brand, vandal, violent nihilism, has ruined this country for a generation, maybe more. I find that daily the Tories complete incompetent, short term, survivalist factionalism is contradictory to any common good. And like Brexit, it continues to damage peoples lives and the economic wellbeing of the UK.

    I find the Liverpool fans booing the national anthem an inoffensive form of satire, and harmless making fun of an anachronistic institution that deserves to be ribbed. The Tories on the other hand destroy people lives and livelihoods.

    If a nation cannot handle a little booing of its anthem it is pretty weak as nations go, rather insecure.

    I feel that way about religion as well, when people get violent or aggressive about people who don't even follow that religion not adhering to their personal interpretation of it - they (and some outsiders) think it shows strength of their faith, whilst I think it shows them to have the mentality of a child, lashing out as they secretly fear the thing they seek to defend is so weak it cannot bear mockery.
    And those who have no respect for their own anthem, culture or religious morality will soon lead to the weakening and ultimately collapse of that very nation like the collapse of the Roman Empire
    This almost sounds like you are taking Gibbon's argument that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is attributable, in part, to the abandonment of Pagan beliefs and the embrace of Christianity.

    On a wider note, you have shown yourself time and time again to be utterly clueless when it comes to understanding history. It would appear on the surface from what you've just that you don't have the first notion about the fall of the Roman Empire, which is on brand but so very tiresome when there's a wealth of material out there. If you could just tear your eyes away from YouGov crosstabs for five minutes.
    A study of the actual patriotic beliefs and feelings of the various groups identifying as “Roman Citizens” and “Allies” through the Republic and Empire would be interesting.

    The Social War always interested me, in how it fitted into that, for both sides.
    Leicester fans singing GSTK was purely football banter with the Liverpool fans, rather than any patriotic feeling.

    Quite looking forward to the Championship again. 3 o'clock Saturday kick offs as default, and as it should be, and some games we might win, and a major clear out of the current team.

    It's been a good decade in the top flight. Won the League, won the FA Cup and Charity Shield, QF of the Champions League, and played both Europa League and Europa Conference League.

    Relegation also softened by backing Leicester for relegation at odds of 14/1, which more than covers my season tickets for next year.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    DougSeal said:

    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.

    It's not a party without Fondant Fancies and Hula Hoops.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Sir Talbot Buxomly.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    Rishi Sunak is facing mounting Tory unrest as he imposes the biggest tax rise since the 1970s, dragging millions of middle earners into the 40p rate of income tax.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says that many teachers, nurses and electricians are among the one in five taxpayers who will be paying a rate designed for the wealthy because of a six-year freeze on thresholds.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/income-tax-rise-uk-rishi-sunak-2023-hmrc-h9f0v0tqg
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,532

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Happy anniversary BigG

    Yes it's going to be a long and acrimonious slog over the next 18 months up to the GE. Neither of the two big parties appear to offer anything palatable at the moment!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Yes, though the Palace does need notification, their spies are not everywhere. Congratulations.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,204
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.

    It's not a party without Fondant Fancies and Hula Hoops.
    That was my line of thinking TBH
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,364

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


    That article is a sign of a government in disarray. If you're right the article comes directly from Braverman, and they are barely hiding it, it means she above anyone is responsible for the disarray.

    If I did something similar in my place of work I would be out the door. No ifs or buts.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    Link?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/16/we-didnt-show-we-cared-enough-we-wont-make-that-mistake-twice-ed-davey-on-love-loss-and-the-lib-dems
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,895

    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    That's a fascinating idea, although I bet there would be significant secondary effects that would be hard to model as well. Earthquakes, for one.

    Incidentally, AIUI the Mediterranean is far deeper today than it was before it flooded; the weight of water caused the bottom to sink.

    Of course, we all know the Straits of Gibraltar opened because Felice (The Great Carbuncle?) ripped it open in order to drown the hated Tanu...

    (Kudos to anyone who gets the reference...)
    She had assistance, though, from the children of Abaddon
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    That's an awful lot of Kraftwerk.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,246

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Foxy said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Yes, though the Palace does need notification, their spies are not everywhere. Congratulations.
    I believe our daughter has it in hand
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    edited May 2023

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    He served with distinction in David Cameron’s cabinet.
    That's part of the hard life - he had to put up with Nick Clegg.

    Incidentally, how many cellos does he have ?
    ...every surface covered in papers, cellos and vests...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


    That article is a sign of a government in disarray. If you're right the article comes directly from Braverman, and they are barely hiding it, it means she above anyone is responsible for the disarray.

    If I did something similar in my place of work I would be out the door. No ifs or buts.
    The most direct consequence of the local election results is a huge increase in public Tory infighting, which in turn will make the GE worse.

    It doesn't take much. And like the scorpion it's in the nature of far too many of them.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,815
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    When the figures are published in the next couple of weeks there needs to be an explanation where the immigrants have come from and how many are on government special jobs visa scheme

    I have no problem with immigration, not least from Ukraine, Hong Kong, or Afghanistan and I expect many will be a benefit to our economy
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,669
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


    That article is a sign of a government in disarray. If you're right the article comes directly from Braverman, and they are barely hiding it, it means she above anyone is responsible for the disarray.

    If I did something similar in my place of work I would be out the door. No ifs or buts.
    Not the first time either. During the collapse of Johnson, she called for the PM to resign, which really ought to have led to her leaving the government.

    For some reason, she gets away with stuff. Maybe senior Conservatives are afraid that she will send them to a safe third country.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,405
    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    He served with distinction in David Cameron’s cabinet.
    That's part of the hard life - he had to put up with Nick Clegg.

    Incidentally, how many cellos does he have ?
    ...every surface covered in papers, cellos and vests...
    10-cellos Davy. Like 2-jags Prescott.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    rcs1000 said:

    The police should be investigating this voter suppression plan.

    What actual laws are they suspected of breaking? Is there a law that says things have to be fair?
    Malfeasance in public office.

    JRM, Sunak et al have knowingly misused or abused their power or authority and willingly acted to cause harm to an individual or group.
    Have you ever killed a fox while wearing a kimono?
    Please: no discussion of the PB moderator initiation ceremonies.
    If I caught up with it, I would have ripped the fox to pieces with my bare hands which half ate Paloma Faith.

    I hate foxes. They are vermin worse than rats.
    Very nice indeed
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Not the 70's though , they were brilliant
  • Options
    jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 745

    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    That's a fascinating idea, although I bet there would be significant secondary effects that would be hard to model as well. Earthquakes, for one.

    Incidentally, AIUI the Mediterranean is far deeper today than it was before it flooded; the weight of water caused the bottom to sink.

    Of course, we all know the Straits of Gibraltar opened because Felice (The Great Carbuncle?) ripped it open in order to drown the hated Tanu...

    (Kudos to anyone who gets the reference...)
    It's ages since I read those, but fondly remembered.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,815

    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


    That article is a sign of a government in disarray. If you're right the article comes directly from Braverman, and they are barely hiding it, it means she above anyone is responsible for the disarray.

    If I did something similar in my place of work I would be out the door. No ifs or buts.
    The most direct consequence of the local election results is a huge increase in public Tory infighting, which in turn will make the GE worse.

    It doesn't take much. And like the scorpion it's in the nature of far too many of them.
    Appropriately Braverman is named after a character in Dallas.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,015

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    I remember looking at a map of 2nd languages. Polish was quite dominant in rural england
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,556
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.

    It's not a party without Fondant Fancies and Hula Hoops.
    Or Vol-Au-Vents
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
    I wouldn't read The Guardian either.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    Link?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/16/we-didnt-show-we-cared-enough-we-wont-make-that-mistake-twice-ed-davey-on-love-loss-and-the-lib-dems
    Thanks.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
    I wouldn't read The Guardian either.
    I tend to read across the spectrum of news media but all online

    I have not bought a newspaper for years, and ironically in the mid 1960s I owned a newsagents
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    Foxy said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Yes, though the Palace does need notification, their spies are not everywhere. Congratulations.
    I believe our daughter has it in hand
    Congratulations G. Hope you and your good lady have a great day.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Yes, though the Palace does need notification, their spies are not everywhere. Congratulations.
    I believe our daughter has it in hand
    Congratulations G. Hope you and your good lady have a great day.
    Thanks Malc
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    When the figures are published in the next couple of weeks there needs to be an explanation where the immigrants have come from and how many are on government special jobs visa scheme

    I have no problem with immigration, not least from Ukraine, Hong Kong, or Afghanistan and I expect many will be a benefit to our economy
    I heard on radio yesterday that 136K of the immigrants were families / relatives from India and Nigeria given visas becauses they had children/relatives studying in UK. Seemed bizarre thing to me.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,364
    Brexit is really in a bad way if even Italy is seen by Brexiteers as a good bolthole


  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,159

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    Link?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/16/we-didnt-show-we-cared-enough-we-wont-make-that-mistake-twice-ed-davey-on-love-loss-and-the-lib-dems
    Thanks.
    It's quite the tear-jerker.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,815
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    I remember looking at a map of 2nd languages. Polish was quite dominant in rural england
    Very dominant and with quite a few Romanian areas in south-eastern England:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/121poj5/second_most_spoken_language_in_each_local/

    My hypothesis is that the restrictions on EU immigration has led to lower migration to those areas where Eastern European were the main source of migrants but has led to higher immigration in those areas where non-European migrants have always been the main source.

    This would correlate to the housing problems in London and my unscientific but real world 'voices in the supermarket' experience.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    edited May 2023

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
    I wouldn't read The Guardian either.
    That's evident.

    Though I assume you're making an exception for the Davey article ?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,319
    DougSeal said:

    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.

    Not in the least. I was ill and did a mix tape... :blush:
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @steverichards14

    We are at the ‘betrayal’ phase of the Brexit saga- this is where the fantasists accept it’s a failure but blame others..it’s the final phase of disastrous projects when the wreckers fight amongst themselves..still noisy and self-regarding while others deal with the dark…

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1658372929338372097
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    Early Sunday morning my son in laws father died in a care home and when he called at his undertakers yesterday they said they had arrived at the home but were turned away as his father had been taken to undertakers 20 miles away

    Shocked by this revelation it seems that someone had mistaken the families instructions and when asked why they did not contact the family when their undertakers arrived, they said as the family would be in mourning they didn't want to contact them

    To add insult to injury the unauthorised undertakers are seeking charges for their involvement and taking him to the authorised undertakers

    You could not make this up
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617
    Best wishes Mr & Mrs G. Glad your daughter has the royal letter in hand. The postman was quite enthusiastic about ours; it has an special type of receipt, which the PO has to return to the palace.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,319
    Congrats on the 59th, @Big_G_NorthWales
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,669

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    When the figures are published in the next couple of weeks there needs to be an explanation where the immigrants have come from and how many are on government special jobs visa scheme

    I have no problem with immigration, not least from Ukraine, Hong Kong, or Afghanistan and I expect many will be a benefit to our economy
    From today's Times:

    Care workers were by far the main driver of the huge increase in the number of visas issued to foreign workers last year, when 268,000 were provided, almost twice as many as the last pre-pandemic year of 2019.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f37dc6ae-f32c-11ed-97af-27f55025e763?shareToken=ee198b8af79860d7d89cf82b9e814795

    Trouble is that training, pay and conditions are constrained by funding levels set by the government, and the government can't really afford to improve them.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,364

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    Definitely a big increase in immigration from India, which.you can see in the cities.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208

    Best wishes Mr & Mrs G. Glad your daughter has the royal letter in hand. The postman was quite enthusiastic about ours; it has an special type of receipt, which the PO has to return to the palace.

    Thank you OKC
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208



    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    When the figures are published in the next couple of weeks there needs to be an explanation where the immigrants have come from and how many are on government special jobs visa scheme

    I have no problem with immigration, not least from Ukraine, Hong Kong, or Afghanistan and I expect many will be a benefit to our economy
    From today's Times:

    Care workers were by far the main driver of the huge increase in the number of visas issued to foreign workers last year, when 268,000 were provided, almost twice as many as the last pre-pandemic year of 2019.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f37dc6ae-f32c-11ed-97af-27f55025e763?shareToken=ee198b8af79860d7d89cf82b9e814795

    Trouble is that training, pay and conditions are constrained by funding levels set by the government, and the government can't really afford to improve them.

    That is a big number and indicative of the need in the care sector

    It would be interesting to find out where they came from
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
  • Options
    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 647
    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    edited May 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    I remember looking at a map of 2nd languages. Polish was quite dominant in rural england
    Very dominant and with quite a few Romanian areas in south-eastern England:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/121poj5/second_most_spoken_language_in_each_local/

    My hypothesis is that the restrictions on EU immigration has led to lower migration to those areas where Eastern European were the main source of migrants but has led to higher immigration in those areas where non-European migrants have always been the main source.

    This would correlate to the housing problems in London and my unscientific but real world 'voices in the supermarket' experience.
    Sounds like there are four main groups, and it is fairly predictable where each group will trend to.

    Students - university towns
    Hong Kongers - London and commuter belt
    Ukrainians - places with spare rooms - i.e. rural and some suburban rather than cities
    Care Workers - wide geographic spread, probably mostly in places with full employment already
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,669

    Early Sunday morning my son in laws father died in a care home and when he called at his undertakers yesterday they said they had arrived at the home but were turned away as his father had been taken to undertakers 20 miles away

    Shocked by this revelation it seems that someone had mistaken the families instructions and when asked why they did not contact the family when their undertakers arrived, they said as the family would be in mourning they didn't want to contact them

    To add insult to injury the unauthorised undertakers are seeking charges for their involvement and taking him to the authorised undertakers

    You could not make this up

    How horrible. Sorry to hear that you had an experience like that.

    I can understand how it happened- when the wheels are falling off anyway, there's no time to check stuff, mistakes get made.

    But for all the importance of caring for the living, it's so essential to get death right.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,008

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    Nah, he was rightly saying Brexit and Scottish Nationalism are two cheeks of the same arse.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @paulwaugh
    3m
    Right-wing populism only succeeds if its leaders are popular. The clue is in the name.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1658377298184224769
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,211
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    Definitely a big increase in immigration from India, which.you can see in the cities.
    The most noticeable change in my leafy suburb is an increase in the number of slightly confused people of oriental appearance in Sainsbury's, presumably recent immigrants from Hong Kong.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,322
    Two little snippets of Ukraine information overnight:

    *) France is to provide Ukraine with Scalp long-range missiles - their version of the Storm Shadow missile that we've already given. Scalp apparently has some differences, including the ability to be fired from ships (and therefore ground?). Yet again, Britain leads.

    *) During last night's missile barrage, Ukraine claim to have shot down six of Russia's 'impossible to hit' Kinzhal missiles. In return, Russia claims to have hit one Patriot battery.

    There are also unconfirmed rumours that Germany said last night that they'd train Ukrainian pilots for the F16 - after the UK said that we'd do it. If true, another case where Britain leads. ;)

    How long before Ukraine gets F16s?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sorry about the fondant fancies thing. It had been a long day.

    It's not a party without Fondant Fancies and Hula Hoops.
    Or Vol-Au-Vents
    Pineapple and Edam and little onions dyed red on cocktail sticks.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    Nah, he was rightly saying Brexit and Scottish Nationalism are two cheeks of the same arse.
    Someone been forcefeeding you with Hawaiian pizza? Very bilious this morning.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    SandraMc said:

    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
    Christ, eating that Jane Austin Pizza would require a lot of Persuasion.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    "Someone who was in the cabinet when legislation on voter ID was agreed"...

    Jacob Rees-Mogg has never been in the cabinet.

    Perhaps he didn't pass the vetting?
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 1,027
    SandraMc said:


    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.

    It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good pizza, must be in want of some pineapple...
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    SandraMc said:

    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
    True, but Harriet Smith and Lydia Bennett are already in deep discussion about it and are putting in an order as they binge on box sets. Mrs Elton has defriended them for being vulgar. Fanny Price is moralising about it in the Guardian and Emma has misunderstood the whole thing.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.

    He served with distinction in David Cameron’s cabinet.
    That's part of the hard life - he had to put up with Nick Clegg.

    Incidentally, how many cellos does he have ?
    ...every surface covered in papers, cellos and vests...
    10-cellos Davy. Like 2-jags Prescott.
    Might get on well musically with Keir, who had a year or so at the Guildhall school of music.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    boulay said:

    SandraMc said:

    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
    Christ, eating that Jane Austin Pizza would require a lot of Persuasion.
    Garlic would have been very un-patriotic at the time; roast peppers a wtf dish, and pizza totally unpatriotic when you could have proper rarebit after some soup, halibut, roast beef and boiled fruit dumpling, and several bottles of pot.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736

    Two little snippets of Ukraine information overnight:

    *) France is to provide Ukraine with Scalp long-range missiles - their version of the Storm Shadow missile that we've already given. Scalp apparently has some differences, including the ability to be fired from ships (and therefore ground?). Yet again, Britain leads.

    *) During last night's missile barrage, Ukraine claim to have shot down six of Russia's 'impossible to hit' Kinzhal missiles. In return, Russia claims to have hit one Patriot battery.

    There are also unconfirmed rumours that Germany said last night that they'd train Ukrainian pilots for the F16 - after the UK said that we'd do it. If true, another case where Britain leads. ;)

    How long before Ukraine gets F16s?

    Do we have F 16s for training?
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
    I wouldn't read The Guardian either.
    I tend to read across the spectrum of news media but all online

    I have not bought a newspaper for years, and ironically in the mid 1960s I owned a newsagents
    Sample of one 42-year-old but I still buy papers - the ‘i’ [sic] admittedly mostly for the puzzles and probably once a month the weekend FT (any week without the grotesque ‘How To Spend It’ supplement).
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    Yes. Rectify the terrible mistake of splitting Northumbria between these bogus nations of England and Scotland and put Yeavering and Lindisfarne back at the centre of the nation's affairs.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,770
    OT. The laws of unintended but bleeding obvious consequences.

    Yesterday it was announced that UK North Sea Operators have surrendered 5200 km2 of frontier exploration acreage that was awarded in the 2016 licencing round. A lot of this contains proven reserves and it is unlikely they will now be developed.

    If you are opposed to North Sea oil and gas then I suppose you will consider this a good thing even though it will mean we import more petrochemical products from other parts of the world. But given that the Government is supposed to be wanting to promote North Sea development both for energy security and to provide revenue it is a particularly stupid way to go about it.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    boulay said:

    SandraMc said:

    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
    Christ, eating that Jane Austin Pizza would require a lot of Persuasion.
    It would show you lack both sense and sensibility.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    The man is an idiot of the first order.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited May 2023
    FPT:

    El_Capitano wrote:
    Westie said:
    Scotland: what's going on with the ferry company Caledonian MacBrayne? Just as the tourist season is taking off, they're not selling any tickets for three days. Absolutely no ticket sales, whether online or in person or over the phone, for sailing on any of their 20+ routes. Are they about to go into administration or something? Have they been told to nail their tills shut? Never heard anything like this before with such a large public transport monopoly.
    They're bringing a new booking system online, including e-tickets. They were meant to be doing it a few weeks ago but, understandably, postponed it due to the ongoing clusterfuck with ferry repairs:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23446389.six-calmac-ferries-need-repairs-easter-disruption/

    I do have some sympathy for the "take it down for a few days" approach to system migration. It reduces the chance of a TSB/Sabadell situation.
    They now say they won't be selling any tickets for four days rather than three:

    https://calmac.co.uk/

    "As we make final preparations for the launch of our new ticketing and booking platform, our systems will continue to undergo a period of scheduled system downtime until 17 May, 24 hours later than previously communicated. Bookings, amends and cancellations are currently unavailable..."

    Who would plan to adopt a "take it down for a few days" approach when the tourist season is just beginning? This is at least a major f*ckup.

    Gotta wonder what's going on, how long ferry tickets will remain unavailable, and who will be running these services when some of them reopen.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,770
    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    Yes. Rectify the terrible mistake of splitting Northumbria between these bogus nations of England and Scotland and put Yeavering and Lindisfarne back at the centre of the nation's affairs.
    Northumbria? Pah. Itself a newfangled bogus nation made from combining the true kingdoms of Bernicia and Deira.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617

    Early Sunday morning my son in laws father died in a care home and when he called at his undertakers yesterday they said they had arrived at the home but were turned away as his father had been taken to undertakers 20 miles away

    Shocked by this revelation it seems that someone had mistaken the families instructions and when asked why they did not contact the family when their undertakers arrived, they said as the family would be in mourning they didn't want to contact them

    To add insult to injury the unauthorised undertakers are seeking charges for their involvement and taking him to the authorised undertakers

    You could not make this up

    How horrible. Sorry to hear that you had an experience like that.

    I can understand how it happened- when the wheels are falling off anyway, there's no time to check stuff, mistakes get made.

    But for all the importance of caring for the living, it's so essential to get death right.
    The “unauthorised” undertakers probably have a contract withe the Home.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736



    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Yet we're continually told that restrictions on EU migration has led to labour shortages ie full employment and pay rises for the low paid.

    I'd be interested to know where immigrants are moving to - does the restriction on EU migration mean that proportionally more of current immigrants are moving to London and other cities.
    When the figures are published in the next couple of weeks there needs to be an explanation where the immigrants have come from and how many are on government special jobs visa scheme

    I have no problem with immigration, not least from Ukraine, Hong Kong, or Afghanistan and I expect many will be a benefit to our economy
    From today's Times:

    Care workers were by far the main driver of the huge increase in the number of visas issued to foreign workers last year, when 268,000 were provided, almost twice as many as the last pre-pandemic year of 2019.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f37dc6ae-f32c-11ed-97af-27f55025e763?shareToken=ee198b8af79860d7d89cf82b9e814795

    Trouble is that training, pay and conditions are constrained by funding levels set by the government, and the government can't really afford to improve them.

    That is a big number and indicative of the need in the care sector

    It would be interesting to find out where they came from
    Africa and the Phillipines as far as I can see.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    Nah, he was rightly saying Brexit and Scottish Nationalism are two cheeks of the same arse.
    Someone been forcefeeding you with Hawaiian pizza? Very bilious this morning.
    Talking mince as usual as well.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    edited May 2023

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    Indeed, because the soundbite is so ambiguous and so easily misunderstood, whatever he meant. Even if one ignores the worst meanings, does he want to cancel devolution? Erase Scots law? And so on. That makes him sound like Boris Johnson and his off the cuff remarks to Tories about closing Holyrood.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399
    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    How odd:
    1 This is an Oxford Union debate from literally months ago, the day after Sturgeon resigned
    2 Alex Salmond was speaking there, so nobody can say it wasn't known about in nationalist circles
    3 So why is The National breathlessly reporting it today as news?

    What did ACH actually say? In response to a call out from the audience about colonialism he said

    "we are a people trapped between flags, between politicians who mythologise and pine for ancient nations which can never and should never exist again in the global world in which we find ourselves"

    Seems fair. The ancient nations are dead and gone. An independent Scotland would not be a recreation of the ancient Scotland which merged with England. It would be something new.

    Malcolm's leader was there, yet this is being presented as somehow news. It isn't. Did Salmond see it as a grave insult and go to town over it? No.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,008
    Westie said:

    "Someone who was in the cabinet when legislation on voter ID was agreed"...

    Jacob Rees-Mogg has never been in the cabinet.

    Perhaps he didn't pass the vetting?

    He was during the Truss interregnum, as Business Secretary.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,048
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    The man is an idiot of the first order.
    Bit harsh on idiots that, from the sound of it.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426

    Westie said:

    "Someone who was in the cabinet when legislation on voter ID was agreed"...

    Jacob Rees-Mogg has never been in the cabinet.

    Perhaps he didn't pass the vetting?

    He was during the Truss interregnum, as Business Secretary.
    I stand corrected.

    Other than during that time, he only attended meetings without being a member. I always thought that was strange.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,008
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    What a strange and silly thing to say
    Nah, he was rightly saying Brexit and Scottish Nationalism are two cheeks of the same arse.
    Someone been forcefeeding you with Hawaiian pizza? Very bilious this morning.
    I’m full of bonhomie this morning.

    I’m having a working man’s lunch in London today.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    How odd:
    1 This is an Oxford Union debate from literally months ago, the day after Sturgeon resigned
    2 Alex Salmond was speaking there, so nobody can say it wasn't known about in nationalist circles
    3 So why is The National breathlessly reporting it today as news?

    What did ACH actually say? In response to a call out from the audience about colonialism he said

    "we are a people trapped between flags, between politicians who mythologise and pine for ancient nations which can never and should never exist again in the global world in which we find ourselves"

    Seems fair. The ancient nations are dead and gone. An independent Scotland would not be a recreation of the ancient Scotland which merged with England. It would be something new.

    Malcolm's leader was there, yet this is being presented as somehow news. It isn't. Did Salmond see it as a grave insult and go to town over it? No.
    It perfectly illustrates the carpetbaggers opinions of Scotland. Happy to milk the public purse on behalf of London. The guy is a clown of the first order, a cuckoo in teh nest and it is little wonder the Lib Dems are circling the drain.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    How odd:
    1 This is an Oxford Union debate from literally months ago, the day after Sturgeon resigned
    2 Alex Salmond was speaking there, so nobody can say it wasn't known about in nationalist circles
    3 So why is The National breathlessly reporting it today as news?

    What did ACH actually say? In response to a call out from the audience about colonialism he said

    "we are a people trapped between flags, between politicians who mythologise and pine for ancient nations which can never and should never exist again in the global world in which we find ourselves"

    Seems fair. The ancient nations are dead and gone. An independent Scotland would not be a recreation of the ancient Scotland which merged with England. It would be something new.

    Malcolm's leader was there, yet this is being presented as somehow news. It isn't. Did Salmond see it as a grave insult and go to town over it? No.
    Given that the only change to the Anglo-Scottish border would be, erm, nothing at all, and that Scotland still has continuity of civil and legasl systems with the pre-1707 state, your statement of 'something new' isn't, er, quite right in key senses. So ACH's remarks are either stupid or malign.
  • Options
    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 647

    Early Sunday morning my son in laws father died in a care home and when he called at his undertakers yesterday they said they had arrived at the home but were turned away as his father had been taken to undertakers 20 miles away

    Shocked by this revelation it seems that someone had mistaken the families instructions and when asked why they did not contact the family when their undertakers arrived, they said as the family would be in mourning they didn't want to contact them

    To add insult to injury the unauthorised undertakers are seeking charges for their involvement and taking him to the authorised undertakers

    You could not make this up

    How horrible. Sorry to hear that you had an experience like that.

    I can understand how it happened- when the wheels are falling off anyway, there's no time to check stuff, mistakes get made.

    But for all the importance of caring for the living, it's so essential to get death right.
    The “unauthorised” undertakers probably have a contract withe the Home.
    When my 98 year old father-in-law died in a nursing home, the home rang my husband a week beforehand to discuss funeral details, saying he was very poorly and we should prepare for the worse. Perhaps such details should be sorted out when someone first enters a home?

    Condolences and sympathy for the extra stress your family has suffered.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Yet more financial murk for the Conservatives:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61264369

    A true reckoning into the multifarious bits of corruption this government has grazed against ought to happen, but probably never will.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,048
    SandraMc said:

    Foxy said:

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
    I have discovered something worse than pineapple on pizza. We are planning some Church crawling in deepest Hampshire tomorrow and looking at the menus of nearby pubs, one has an On The Beach pizza featuring pineapple and coconut! It also has a Jane Austin (sic) pizza with garlic mushrooms, roast peppers and Brie. I have read all of Austen's novels and never seen those foods mentioned in them.
    Sounds like it should be eaten with allegro :wink:
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,508
    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    Has anyone ever seen Alex Cole-Hamilton and Nigel Foremain at the same time?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    .

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    How odd:
    1 This is an Oxford Union debate from literally months ago, the day after Sturgeon resigned
    2 Alex Salmond was speaking there, so nobody can say it wasn't known about in nationalist circles
    3 So why is The National breathlessly reporting it today as news?

    What did ACH actually say? In response to a call out from the audience about colonialism he said

    "we are a people trapped between flags, between politicians who mythologise and pine for ancient nations which can never and should never exist again in the global world in which we find ourselves"

    Seems fair. The ancient nations are dead and gone. An independent Scotland would not be a recreation of the ancient Scotland which merged with England. It would be something new....
    Seems a pretty obvious point to me; only presented out of context does it sound odd.

    And at least the Lib Dems actually meant it, when they argued vote no to independence to stay in the EU.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,553
    Ghedebrav said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning

    Catching up on the recent threads I do not recall a more depressing time in politics or economics

    Conservatives accused of gerrymandering votes and now Starmer being accused of gerrymandering EU citizens votes whilst so many are struggling with basics not least food price inflation

    Then Braverman makes a leadership pitch (pity help us), Boris band of disciples copy the Corbyn tribute act, and meanwhile Sunak, and no doubt Hunt, are content to see high immigration numbers as they are a pathway to economic growth

    I believe we are facing a bitter and lengthy political schism over the next 18 months that will become more divisive and unappealing to most voters who just want stability

    Anyway it is our 59th wedding anniversary today so my wife and I are having time in our garden before the family come over later this afternoon

    Of course this time next year, (if we keep taking our pills !!) we should receive royal recognition of our diamond celebrations from Charles (if he lasts that long)

    Stop buying the Daily Mail. You’ll feel better for it.

    Happy anniversary.
    Why would you think I buy the mail or even agree with it

    My wife has a subscription as she does the online puzzles, but if you follow my posts you are more likely to see me quoting the guardian than the mail
    I wouldn't read The Guardian either.
    I tend to read across the spectrum of news media but all online

    I have not bought a newspaper for years, and ironically in the mid 1960s I owned a newsagents
    Sample of one 42-year-old but I still buy papers - the ‘i’ [sic] admittedly mostly for the puzzles and probably once a month the weekend FT (any week without the grotesque ‘How To Spend It’ supplement).
    Sample of one 50 year old - I bought a paper daily (The Times) until last week on subscription.

    Then discovered that the digital only version is £40 a month cheaper and the iPad version is nicer to read.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the weirdo Lib Dem regional London party sockpuppet Leader showing their true colours .........
    This will get them far......

    Scotland 'can never' exist again, says Scottish LibDems leader
    THE leader of the Scottish LibDems has said that Scotland “can never and should never exist again” in an “extraordinary” intervention during a debate on independence.

    How odd:
    1 This is an Oxford Union debate from literally months ago, the day after Sturgeon resigned
    2 Alex Salmond was speaking there, so nobody can say it wasn't known about in nationalist circles
    3 So why is The National breathlessly reporting it today as news?

    What did ACH actually say? In response to a call out from the audience about colonialism he said

    "we are a people trapped between flags, between politicians who mythologise and pine for ancient nations which can never and should never exist again in the global world in which we find ourselves"

    Seems fair. The ancient nations are dead and gone. An independent Scotland would not be a recreation of the ancient Scotland which merged with England. It would be something new.

    Malcolm's leader was there, yet this is being presented as somehow news. It isn't. Did Salmond see it as a grave insult and go to town over it? No.
    It perfectly illustrates the carpetbaggers opinions of Scotland. Happy to milk the public purse on behalf of London. The guy is a clown of the first order, a cuckoo in teh nest and it is little wonder the Lib Dems are circling the drain.
    Circling the drain, but comfortably out-polling Alba, which puts you where...

    Back onto the actual point as opposed to the comedy insults, the old nations are gone. We can choose to forge a new state in a modern world, but the pre-union Scotland (same as the pre-union England or a pre-conquest unified Wales) is gone. The past.

    Even the proposals for statehood advocated by your party leader was not for status quo ante. And given that he was sat across the dias from ACH months ago in this debate, and didn't react as the national has done, perhaps his views aren't just comedy insults as yours are?
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,360
    The Tories gerrymandering with ID? Probably so, but not very effective.

    Labour gerrymandering with votes for sixteen year olds, probably, and votes for settled immgrants with no British nationality? Obviously so, as it's not done in other European countries.

    Hypocrisy is the usual mode for politicans.
This discussion has been closed.