Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

So Moggsy admits that voter ID WAS Tory gerrynandering – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,326
    I did call this out as blatant gerrymandering, and PB Tories threw in every excuse under the sun. Turns out it IS gerrymandering and JRM is calling it out for what it is.

    With Cruella making her thinly-veiled pitch for the leadership should Sunak wake up dead, its not going to be a happy camp inside the Tory party this summer.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,397
    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    Say it ain't bona fide, Rudy!
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenWilliams_FT
    Ok so, here goes. My (long-researched) attempt to explain why so many allegations are flying about in relation to Ben Houchen, the former steelworks in Redcar and, by extension, the Teesside freeport

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliams_FT/status/1658013914175602691

    I didn't know the FT had poached Jen Williams from the MEN. She's absolutely excellent. Probably means Ben Houchen's in trouble.
    Yes she is.
    One of the very few journalists who seem to prioritise holding power to account over a clickbait story.
    Surprised she made it national tbf.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    edited May 2023
    The daily mail ripping into Starmer’s big gaff.



    Some very good front pages for Braverman. Metro and Express, lapping it up. (What’s that quote from Cabaret HY? You still think you can control them?)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuHXTG3uyY

    Star has an INVASION of GIANT SCARY INSECTS wtf

    most interesting for me is Times and Express headlines of 40% Tax Bomb. It sounds dramatic, like a brilliant General Election winning tactic by the Conservatives, YOU will get hit by a 40% Tax Bomb if Labour get in. A quarter of teachers and one in eight nurses will all get hit by this higher rate. Only it’s not their campaign soundite is it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Leicester fans singing God Save The King and getting drowned out by the Liverpool fans singing Liverpool.

    Don't the rest of us plebs need saving? Stupid so-called "national" "anthem"!
    All Liverpool fans are an unpatriotic disgrace. Being shown up in manners by Leicester.

    This will obviously be ten nil to Liverpool on the pitch.

    Is the main reason Leicester went down the owners wealth comes from duty free shops in airports, and they had a bad pandemic? Contributing factors over long expensive contracts, and money wasted in players not in first team games?
    Does singing the national anthem count as the single only definition of patriotism in your opinion?

    My own definition of patriotism is probably slightly different to yours. My own view of patriotism is a belief in the greater good of my country.

    I think the Tories and their Brexit brand, vandal, violent nihilism, has ruined this country for a generation, maybe more. I find that daily the Tories complete incompetent, short term, survivalist factionalism is contradictory to any common good. And like Brexit, it continues to damage peoples lives and the economic wellbeing of the UK.

    I find the Liverpool fans booing the national anthem an inoffensive form of satire, and harmless making fun of an anachronistic institution that deserves to be ribbed. The Tories on the other hand destroy people lives and livelihoods.

    If a nation cannot handle a little booing of its anthem it is pretty weak as nations go, rather insecure.

    I feel that way about religion as well, when people get violent or aggressive about people who don't even follow that religion not adhering to their personal interpretation of it - they (and some outsiders) think it shows strength of their faith, whilst I think it shows them to have the mentality of a child, lashing out as they secretly fear the thing they seek to defend is so weak it cannot bear mockery.
    And those who have no respect for their own anthem, culture or religious morality will soon lead to the weakening and ultimately collapse of that very nation like the collapse of the Roman Empire
    This almost sounds like you are taking Gibbon's argument that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is attributable, in part, to the abandonment of Pagan beliefs and the embrace of Christianity.

    On a wider note, you have shown yourself time and time again to be utterly clueless when it comes to understanding history. It would appear on the surface from what you've just that you don't have the first notion about the fall of the Roman Empire, which is on brand but so very tiresome when there's a wealth of material out there. If you could just tear your eyes away from YouGov crosstabs for five minutes.
    The fall of the Roman Empire was nothing to do with Christianity, indeed it was at the height of its powers when Emperor Constantine led the conversion to Christianity and extended into Byzantium. Indeed it really started to collapse under Emperor Julian who restricted Christianity and engaged in a foolhardy expedition against the Sasanian Empire.

    So don't come out with your usual Marxist crap
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,456
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Tres said:

    This National Conservatism Conference really is something else. If there's a concern that we import wokeness from the USA, there should be much more concern about this importation of US-funded evangelical right-wing nuttiness and, in particular, the appearance of several leading Tory MPs. I note, for example, that Wiki says Miriam Cates is an evangelical Christian. Is it the British Tea Party movement?

    If anybody's interested, I came across this article by John Hayes on Conservative Home. Scary stuff, I think. Even the Tory commenters mostly seem to think he's as mad as a box of frogs.

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/15/john-hayes-national-conservatism-can-help-the-government-deliver-on-the-promises-of-2019/

    more like the mad hatters party
    It's all the fault of John Lennon. That's why the West is going to the dogs.

    Western civilisation is threatened by a "new religion", a mix of "Marxism, narcissism and paganism", conforming to the "dystopian fantasy of John Lennon"


    https://twitter.com/broderly/status/1658108814413971456
    Anti country, anti religion, anti assets and wealth and possessions, yes John Lennon's Imagine was everything the populist conservative Right loathes
    "Imagine all the people
    Livin' life in peace
    ...
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man"

    The monster.
    It's not monstrous to declare that it would be nice to live in peace. It's just weird that some people end up supporting genuinely monstrous peoples' aims whilst insisting they are still just all about peace. Or seem more committed to revolutionary politics as a goal in itself, and rejecting perfectly good measures on the grounds it doesn't require revoluntary politics.

    Was that how Lennon was? I have no idea, I guess he was influential to old people, but even as a not young person he means nothing to me other than some tunes were ok and apparently he was a bit of a dick.
    In his song 'Revolution' a rather weary Lennon expressed cynicism about the motives of self proclaimed revolutionaries in the west and seemed open to a more pragmatic gradualist approach to politics. Still progressive but more akin to Ed Miliband than Malcolm X. Great tune also. One of his best.
    Depeche Mode's "Where's the Revolution", released in 2017:

    You've been kept down
    You've been pushed 'round
    You've been lied to
    You've been fed truths
    Who's making your decisions?
    You or your religion?
    Your government, your countries?
    You patriotic junkies

    Where's the revolution?
    Come on, people
    You're letting me down
    Where's the revolution?
    Come on, people
    You're letting me down

    You've been pissed on
    For too long
    Your rights abused
    Your views refused
    They manipulate and threaten
    With terror as a weapon
    Scare you till you're stupefied
    Wear you down until you're on their side

    Where's the revolution?
    Come on, people
    You're letting me down
    Where's the revolution?
    Come on, people
    You're letting me down
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    edited May 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    edited May 2023
    We tried to gerrymander but failed. So they are doing the same. And they may succeed!
    Has it really come to that level of argument?
    Apparently so. It's a bit sad.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,456

    The daily mail ripping into Starmer’s big gaff.


    Can you feel a little Gove? ;)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    edited May 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Catching up with this NatCon conference. Is Sunak the only thing standing between the Tories and the abyss?

    Sunak has many advantages (most of which presently escape me), and in extremis he can serve as a rudimentary draught excluder, but even taking them into consideration he does not strike me as someone who can stop a thundering Tory herd. It would be like a WB cartoon... :(
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    FFS.

    The Tories have LITERALLY admitted to rigging the voting system to get FEWER people to vote.

    Labour wants to give votes to people that live here and pay their taxes - don't we love these people, especially and including the Mail? - and for people who in Scotland can already vote.

    And Scotland voted to remain in the UK despite that.

    Perhaps the reality is that the Tories should do something to appeal to voters under the age of 95?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,375
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenWilliams_FT
    Ok so, here goes. My (long-researched) attempt to explain why so many allegations are flying about in relation to Ben Houchen, the former steelworks in Redcar and, by extension, the Teesside freeport

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliams_FT/status/1658013914175602691

    I didn't know the FT had poached Jen Williams from the MEN. She's absolutely excellent. Probably means Ben Houchen's in trouble.
    Yes she is.
    One of the very few journalists who seem to prioritise holding power to account over a clickbait story.
    Surprised she made it national tbf.
    I'm not - she has always been very good - with an attention to detail that is very rare..
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Was it "very rare"?
    Super comforting for those involved if so I'm sure.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    edited May 2023
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenWilliams_FT
    Ok so, here goes. My (long-researched) attempt to explain why so many allegations are flying about in relation to Ben Houchen, the former steelworks in Redcar and, by extension, the Teesside freeport

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliams_FT/status/1658013914175602691

    I didn't know the FT had poached Jen Williams from the MEN. She's absolutely excellent. Probably means Ben Houchen's in trouble.
    Yes she is.
    One of the very few journalists who seem to prioritise holding power to account over a clickbait story.
    Surprised she made it national tbf.
    I'm not - she has always been very good - with an attention to detail that is very rare..
    Oh I very much agree.
    Which is why I am surprised.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,533
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Leicester fans singing God Save The King and getting drowned out by the Liverpool fans singing Liverpool.

    Don't the rest of us plebs need saving? Stupid so-called "national" "anthem"!
    All Liverpool fans are an unpatriotic disgrace. Being shown up in manners by Leicester.

    This will obviously be ten nil to Liverpool on the pitch.

    Is the main reason Leicester went down the owners wealth comes from duty free shops in airports, and they had a bad pandemic? Contributing factors over long expensive contracts, and money wasted in players not in first team games?
    Does singing the national anthem count as the single only definition of patriotism in your opinion?

    My own definition of patriotism is probably slightly different to yours. My own view of patriotism is a belief in the greater good of my country.

    I think the Tories and their Brexit brand, vandal, violent nihilism, has ruined this country for a generation, maybe more. I find that daily the Tories complete incompetent, short term, survivalist factionalism is contradictory to any common good. And like Brexit, it continues to damage peoples lives and the economic wellbeing of the UK.

    I find the Liverpool fans booing the national anthem an inoffensive form of satire, and harmless making fun of an anachronistic institution that deserves to be ribbed. The Tories on the other hand destroy people lives and livelihoods.

    If a nation cannot handle a little booing of its anthem it is pretty weak as nations go, rather insecure.

    I feel that way about religion as well, when people get violent or aggressive about people who don't even follow that religion not adhering to their personal interpretation of it - they (and some outsiders) think it shows strength of their faith, whilst I think it shows them to have the mentality of a child, lashing out as they secretly fear the thing they seek to defend is so weak it cannot bear mockery.
    And those who have no respect for their own anthem, culture or religious morality will soon lead to the weakening and ultimately collapse of that very nation like the collapse of the Roman Empire
    Hang on.
    What is our nation's "religious morality"?
    Consider with reference to the 15th to 19th Centuries.
    Judaeo Christianity and the traditional family
    I thought that their first album was OK but after that they lost their direction.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Leicester fans singing God Save The King and getting drowned out by the Liverpool fans singing Liverpool.

    Don't the rest of us plebs need saving? Stupid so-called "national" "anthem"!
    All Liverpool fans are an unpatriotic disgrace. Being shown up in manners by Leicester.

    This will obviously be ten nil to Liverpool on the pitch.

    Is the main reason Leicester went down the owners wealth comes from duty free shops in airports, and they had a bad pandemic? Contributing factors over long expensive contracts, and money wasted in players not in first team games?
    Does singing the national anthem count as the single only definition of patriotism in your opinion?

    My own definition of patriotism is probably slightly different to yours. My own view of patriotism is a belief in the greater good of my country.

    I think the Tories and their Brexit brand, vandal, violent nihilism, has ruined this country for a generation, maybe more. I find that daily the Tories complete incompetent, short term, survivalist factionalism is contradictory to any common good. And like Brexit, it continues to damage peoples lives and the economic wellbeing of the UK.

    I find the Liverpool fans booing the national anthem an inoffensive form of satire, and harmless making fun of an anachronistic institution that deserves to be ribbed. The Tories on the other hand destroy people lives and livelihoods.

    If a nation cannot handle a little booing of its anthem it is pretty weak as nations go, rather insecure.

    I feel that way about religion as well, when people get violent or aggressive about people who don't even follow that religion not adhering to their personal interpretation of it - they (and some outsiders) think it shows strength of their faith, whilst I think it shows them to have the mentality of a child, lashing out as they secretly fear the thing they seek to defend is so weak it cannot bear mockery.
    And those who have no respect for their own anthem, culture or religious morality will soon lead to the weakening and ultimately collapse of that very nation like the collapse of the Roman Empire
    This almost sounds like you are taking Gibbon's argument that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is attributable, in part, to the abandonment of Pagan beliefs and the embrace of Christianity.

    On a wider note, you have shown yourself time and time again to be utterly clueless when it comes to understanding history. It would appear on the surface from what you've just that you don't have the first notion about the fall of the Roman Empire, which is on brand but so very tiresome when there's a wealth of material out there. If you could just tear your eyes away from YouGov crosstabs for five minutes.
    The fall of the Roman Empire was nothing to do with Christianity, indeed it was at the height of its powers when Emperor Constantine led the conversion to Christianity and extended into Byzantium. Indeed it really started to collapse under Emperor Julian who restricted Christianity and engaged in a foolhardy expedition against the Sasanian Empire.

    So don't come out with your usual Marxist crap
    I thought it was Ian Botham marching across the Alps with his elephants that did for Rome?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    The daily mail ripping into Starmer’s big gaff.



    Some very good front pages for Braverman. Metro and Express, lapping it up. (What’s that quote from Cabaret HY? You still think you can control them?)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuHXTG3uyY

    Star has an INVASION of GIANT SCARY INSECTS wtf

    most interesting for me is Times and Express headlines of 40% Tax Bomb. It sounds dramatic, like a brilliant General Election winning tactic by the Conservatives, YOU will get hit by a 40% Tax Bomb if Labour get in. A quarter of teachers and one in eight nurses will all get hit by this higher rate. Only it’s not their campaign soundite is it.

    Are any Express readers young enough to work ?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,427
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    FFS.

    The Tories have LITERALLY admitted to rigging the voting system to get FEWER people to vote.

    Labour wants to give votes to people that live here and pay their taxes - don't we love these people, especially and including the Mail? - and for people who in Scotland can already vote.

    And Scotland voted to remain in the UK despite that.

    Perhaps the reality is that the Tories should do something to appeal to voters under the age of 95?

    The branch of the Old Oak is leafy and green,

    The Thames gives its gold to the sea.

    But somewhere a glory awaits, unseen…
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    If that is true he is one dumb criminal, on top of being awful.

    Trump shows how you do terrible things and get away with it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,219
    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    Bah, the Catholic Church sold indulgences for millennia without any issues.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,387
    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    LOL. Worst. Lawyer. Ever.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719
    Re the Fall of the Roman Empire.

    This site is pretty good:

    https://www.youtube.com/@Maiorianus_Sebastian
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612
    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    Fuck the past. It was shit.

    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
    Does that include the people who hark back to the pre-2016 era as some kind of golden age?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,326

    Royal Mail have lost some important documents, which were tracked/money paid for guaranteed next day delivery, there was no urgency on their part to help or pay the compensation.

    On the very rare occasions DPD or DHL have lost/delayed an item they couldn't have been more helpful

    I send hundreds of packages a year with RM and to be fair to them the loss rate is very small, a fraction of a percent even for untracked packages. But, yes they are not at all helpful if they do lose something. Last year I sent a package to Sweden via Royal Mail and it ended up in Beijing. RM took three months to admit error and pay out - and a few days later the postie dropped off the now very tatty package, returned all the way from China.

    DPD have always worked out well for me, but DHL not so much. They managed to deliver a box of very expensive custom electronics not only to the wrong address but the wrong town! The proof of delivery photo showed it sitting in someone's wheely bin. The response when I complained was "we'll ask the driver to pick it up tomorrow"

    Using the colour of the bin, the fact that it hadn't been emptied and a similarity in road names I managed to work out where my package was and went to recover it myself from a very confused lady who clearly thought I was a bit of a crackpot, wanting to rummage in her bin!
    With most of the courier firms the user experience relies on the last mile contractor. I sympathise with the "wrong town" delivery as that is what DPD do to us a lot. I had the local driver try and explain it when he bothered to actually ring the bell. Essentially DPD's driver app has a muddle with local postcodes, and even when the correct village is in the address they follow the app to the wrong village.

    As for Royal Mail, I had £22k resting on them delivering legal paperwork to Romania. Lost before it arrived to Heathrow. Happily I had anticipated FUBAR and obtained 2 wet copy sets of paperwork. 2nd set went via DHL and arrived rapidly.

    A final set of documents is required from this client before I finally sign off them. I'm considering a trip to Bucharest to physically hand them over because its very likely to be my final ever trip to Romania and I quite like the place.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Much of it was.

    It's certainly true that we should not adopt changing ways simply because they are new and that's 'progress', as though that makes things inherently positive. Some new ideas are shit too. But we've actually gotten rid of a lot of shit stuff.

    The key to conservatism is probably keeping the feel of consistency even as you change radically to keep the good bits of current times. Heck, that's not even restricted just to conservatism.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,387
    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMusson
    EXCL: Police requested search warrant for Nicola Sturgeon’s home and SNP HQ a week before end of SNP leadership race - but only got nod from Crown Office a week after the contest ended

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1658194679991508998

    Nicola has stuck her head above the parapet tonight to express astonishment that Scotland is so polarised. I am...no I give up, I really do.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,326

    Who’s the Tory Mayor embroiled in property deal on front of the FT? Andy Preston? 😲

    Ben Houchen International Airport. I have posted repeatedly on this dodgy-as-fuck fiasco, but the local press are too frit to get involved. Simon Ding Dong Clarke keeps screeching about how all the critics are libelling the developers - especially that (utter wazzock) Andy Macdonald MP. Yet for some reason Private Eye who posted the whole sordid mess with FOI answers isn't facing down Carter Fuck's latest writ...
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,326
    kle4 said:

    Who’s the Tory Mayor embroiled in property deal on front of the FT? Andy Preston? 😲

    The Lord of the North, Ben Houchen, I assume.

    It was probably all too good to be true, his stomping re-election victory not actually showing a political collossos perhaps.
    Ben Houchen International Airport won reelection against Momentum's Jessie Jessie Jessie Jessie Joe Jacobs. Which isn't difficult.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChrisMusson
    EXCL: Police requested search warrant for Nicola Sturgeon’s home and SNP HQ a week before end of SNP leadership race - but only got nod from Crown Office a week after the contest ended

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1658194679991508998

    Nicola has stuck her head above the parapet tonight to express astonishment that Scotland is so polarised. I am...no I give up, I really do.
    I don't know what goes through the heads of politicians sometimes. It's like they are just running through a script of things they know they are supposed to say. See also when the complain about people playing politics.

    Now, I know what's being implied when that sort of thing is said, but taken on its face it is just plain silly since who else but politicians should play politics, when should people play politics if not during political debate. They don't want unity all the time, they want their ideas to succeed, they want polarisation and division because some issues are divisive and need to be settled.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,427

    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    Fuck the past. It was shit.

    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
    Does that include the people who hark back to the pre-2016 era as some kind of golden age?
    I wouldn't describe them as viscious, by and large, but I would describe them as fantasists.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,427
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    Fuck the past. It was shit.

    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
    Does that include the people who hark back to the pre-2016 era as some kind of golden age?
    I wouldn't describe them as viscious, by and large, but I would describe them as fantasists.
    (Along with people whose anthem is "things can only get better".)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341

    I did call this out as blatant gerrymandering, and PB Tories threw in every excuse under the sun. Turns out it IS gerrymandering and JRM is calling it out for what it is.

    With Cruella making her thinly-veiled pitch for the leadership should Sunak wake up dead, its not going to be a happy camp inside the Tory party this summer.

    There is the original definition of gerrymandering around manipulating boundaries, and I think some of us are a little beholden to that particular definition, when it definitely gets used more casually to refer to any measure designed to influence the electoral process for partisan advantage.

    Or at least any unfair measure - a proposal might benefit one side more than another, whilst also delivering a fairer outcome, if the thing being changed was not.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    Fuck the past. It was shit.

    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
    Unless they actually do flow if outside a container, the word you may be looking for is "vicious"

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    Haha, good one!

    Since you are workshopping ideas for the next GE campaign I would suggest you dial back the marxist references - marxists are idiots but when the actual marxists are furious at Keir all the time it will be very hard to make it seem credible he is a new Stalin or whatever.

    People might also wonder how the ilk have had their way for so long despite the heroic Borissiah and others leading the charge.

    Other than that no notes.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,719

    Who’s the Tory Mayor embroiled in property deal on front of the FT? Andy Preston? 😲

    Ben Houchen International Airport. I have posted repeatedly on this dodgy-as-fuck fiasco, but the local press are too frit to get involved. Simon Ding Dong Clarke keeps screeching about how all the critics are libelling the developers - especially that (utter wazzock) Andy Macdonald MP. Yet for some reason Private Eye who posted the whole sordid mess with FOI answers isn't facing down Carter Fuck's latest writ...
    Is Andy Macdonald a critic or a developer ?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,078
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    Haha, good one!

    Since you are workshopping ideas for the next GE campaign I would suggest you dial back the marxist references - marxists are idiots but when the actual marxists are furious at Keir all the time it will be very hard to make it seem credible he is a new Stalin or whatever.

    People might also wonder how the ilk have had their way for so long despite the heroic Borissiah and others leading the charge.

    Other than that no notes.
    The battle is not now against economic Marxists as much as cultural Marxists
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    The daily mail ripping into Starmer’s big gaff.



    Some very good front pages for Braverman. Metro and Express, lapping it up. (What’s that quote from Cabaret HY? You still think you can control them?)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuHXTG3uyY

    Star has an INVASION of GIANT SCARY INSECTS wtf

    most interesting for me is Times and Express headlines of 40% Tax Bomb. It sounds dramatic, like a brilliant General Election winning tactic by the Conservatives, YOU will get hit by a 40% Tax Bomb if Labour get in. A quarter of teachers and one in eight nurses will all get hit by this higher rate. Only it’s not their campaign soundite is it.

    Are any Express readers young enough to work ?
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ohhib

    1992 I think. When Labour had lots of good locals and thought they could overturn a Conservative landslide majority.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    Haha, good one!

    Since you are workshopping ideas for the next GE campaign I would suggest you dial back the marxist references - marxists are idiots but when the actual marxists are furious at Keir all the time it will be very hard to make it seem credible he is a new Stalin or whatever.

    People might also wonder how the ilk have had their way for so long despite the heroic Borissiah and others leading the charge.

    Other than that no notes.
    The battle is not now against economic Marxists as much as cultural Marxists
    They hate Keir too.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,714
    kle4 said:

    I did call this out as blatant gerrymandering, and PB Tories threw in every excuse under the sun. Turns out it IS gerrymandering and JRM is calling it out for what it is.

    With Cruella making her thinly-veiled pitch for the leadership should Sunak wake up dead, its not going to be a happy camp inside the Tory party this summer.

    There is the original definition of gerrymandering around manipulating boundaries, and I think some of us are a little beholden to that particular definition, when it definitely gets used more casually to refer to any measure designed to influence the electoral process for partisan advantage.

    Or at least any unfair measure - a proposal might benefit one side more than another, whilst also delivering a fairer outcome, if the thing being changed was not.
    I agree with keeping the original definition. I prefer to refer to this latest sordid episode by the much simpler term 'ballot rigging'. I think it cuts through much better for the man on the street. Or is it the Clapham Omnibus.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Who’s the Tory Mayor embroiled in property deal on front of the FT? Andy Preston? 😲

    Ben Houchen International Airport. I have posted repeatedly on this dodgy-as-fuck fiasco, but the local press are too frit to get involved. Simon Ding Dong Clarke keeps screeching about how all the critics are libelling the developers - especially that (utter wazzock) Andy Macdonald MP. Yet for some reason Private Eye who posted the whole sordid mess with FOI answers isn't facing down Carter Fuck's latest writ...
    Thank you. That’s some relief. My property dealing brother reckons he knows Andy Preston. 🤫
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    darkage said:

    It is quite refreshing to hear a politician telling the truth. Mogg should at least get some credit for that.

    He’d get some credit if he apologised for voting for it.
    Or did I miss that bit ?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    I think "Marxist liberal" is to right-wing people what "fascist" is to left-wing people: a defined term that's been ripped from its original meaning and now flaps in the wind untethered - a reference without a referent.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    edited May 2023

    kle4 said:

    I did call this out as blatant gerrymandering, and PB Tories threw in every excuse under the sun. Turns out it IS gerrymandering and JRM is calling it out for what it is.

    With Cruella making her thinly-veiled pitch for the leadership should Sunak wake up dead, its not going to be a happy camp inside the Tory party this summer.

    There is the original definition of gerrymandering around manipulating boundaries, and I think some of us are a little beholden to that particular definition, when it definitely gets used more casually to refer to any measure designed to influence the electoral process for partisan advantage.

    Or at least any unfair measure - a proposal might benefit one side more than another, whilst also delivering a fairer outcome, if the thing being changed was not.
    I agree with keeping the original definition. I prefer to refer to this latest sordid episode by the much simpler term 'ballot rigging'. I think it cuts through much better for the man on the street. Or is it the Clapham Omnibus.
    It’s (selective) vote suppression rather than ballot rigging (which covers various different shenanigans), I think ?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    edited May 2023
    [deleted: double posted]
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    I think "Marxist liberal" is to right-wing people what "fascist" is to left-wing people: a defined term that's been ripped from its original meaning and now flaps in the wind
    At least fascism had (has!) a real meaning. Marxist Liberal makes as much sense as "fish tree".
    It probably started as a self identifier, with people who wanted to be marxist but also confuse liberal as a synonym for good, and likewise is now used by opponents to try to link the two.

    Also probably an americanism HYUFD is trying to import, since I honestly cannot recall too many people being labelled as both simultaneously in general usage.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    I think "Marxist liberal" is to right-wing people what "fascist" is to left-wing people: a defined term that's been ripped from its original meaning and now flaps in the wind
    At least fascism had (has!) a real meaning. Marxist Liberal makes as much sense as "fish tree".
    Indeed
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    LOL. Worst. Lawyer. Ever.
    The complaint against him is one of the most sordid legal documents I’ve encountered.
    https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/650033_2023_Noelle_Dunphy_v_Rudolph_W_Giuliani_et_al_COMPLAINT_10.pdf

    Utterly vile man.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,878
    edited May 2023
    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the big debates in British politics starts today at the NatCon conference. What is conservatism? Why is it so lost? I'm speaking tomorrow drawing on this

    #natcon"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1658001792230207488
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    Question everything ban nothing revolutionary communists with Trotskyitus. Yes. It’s a thing.

    The people who formed Spiked magazine. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/living-marxism/no63-jan-1994.pdf

    Libertarian as always presumed as right wing, but there are libertarian marxists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Marxist

    Some teenagers go through a phase like this, suddenly thinking it’s cool if there was no authority, no states, no religion, no heaven or hell, and they can let their hair grow long. It’s perfectly normal. 99% grow out of it and go on to be dependable Conservative voters. But alas for some, they just get stuck there, like some Groundhog Day, and sadly there is nothing you can do for them except hit them hard as possible with truncheons at demonstrations, raid their squats to stitch them up as drug dealers, and lock them in prison.

    Does that answer your question 🙂
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Who’s the Tory Mayor embroiled in property deal on front of the FT? Andy Preston? 😲

    Ben Houchen International Airport. I have posted repeatedly on this dodgy-as-fuck fiasco, but the local press are too frit to get involved. Simon Ding Dong Clarke keeps screeching about how all the critics are libelling the developers - especially that (utter wazzock) Andy Macdonald MP. Yet for some reason Private Eye who posted the whole sordid mess with FOI answers isn't facing down Carter Fuck's latest writ...
    So what exactly is the suggestion of dodgyness? What is the nub of it?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    Question everything ban nothing revolutionary communists with Trotskyitus. Yes. It’s a thing.

    The people who formed Spiked magazine. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/living-marxism/no63-jan-1994.pdf

    Libertarian as always presumed as right wing, but there are libertarian marxists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Marxist

    Some teenagers go through a phase like this, suddenly thinking it’s cool if there was no authority, no states, no religion, no heaven or hell, and they can let their hair grow long. It’s perfectly normal. 99% grow out of it and go on to be dependable Conservative voters. But alas for some, they just get stuck there, like some Groundhog Day, and sadly there is nothing you can do for them except hit them hard as possible with truncheons at demonstrations, raid their squats to stitch them up as drug dealers, and lock them in prison.

    Does that answer your question 🙂
    You and Doug need to lay off the Fondant Fancies.
    They appear to have hallucinogenic properties.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,427
    viewcode said:

    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    Fuck the past. It was shit.

    And this past was not so long ago. These viscious fantasists can sod right off.
    Unless they actually do flow if outside a container, the word you may be looking for is "vicious"

    Consistuntly mis-spulled.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,631
    edited May 2023
    For Our Gracious Host: Two Wikipedia articles on gerrymandering:
    The first, a correction to the apparently common notion among those on the left in the UK that gerrymandering is new, and practiced only by wicked Republicans:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_in_California
    (Almost everyone will be cheered by the shapes of the two districts shown.)

    The second, a general discussion of the subject:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

    And this reminder: There can be "natural gerrymanders", if one party's voters are heavily concentrated in few areas. The second article mentions the redistricting in Pennsylvania, but does not add this: If a computer program had drawn the district boundaries, ignoring partisanship, but creating compact and contiguous districts, the Republicans would still have had an advantage, though a smaller one, since so many Democrats are concentrated in Philadelphia. (I said this at the time, by the way.)

    (I put "natural gerrymanders" in quotes because it is not standard usage, but I haven't been able to find a better phrase to describe the phenomena.)

  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,878
    edited May 2023
    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One of the big debates in British politics starts today at the NatCon conference. What is conservatism? Why is it so lost? I'm speaking tomorrow drawing on this

    #natcon"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1658001792230207488

    [Translation: buy my book 😀]
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,631
    Finally, this recent article: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-rep-james-clyburn-protected-his-district-at-a-cost-to-black-democrats

    (It's by a leftist group, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve it.)
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,878

    For Our Gracious Host: Two Wikipedia articles on gerrymandering:
    The first, a correction to the apparently common notion among those on the left in the UK that gerrymandering is new, and practiced only by wicked Republicans:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_in_California
    (Almost everyone will be cheered by the shapes of the two districts shown.)

    The second, a general discussion of the subject:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

    And this reminder: There can be "natural gerrymanders", if one party's voters are heavily concentrated in few areas. The second article mentions the redistricting in Pennsylvania, but does not add this: If a computer program had drawn the district boundaries, ignoring partisanship, but creating compact and contiguous districts, the Republicans would still have had an advantage, though a smaller one, since so many Democrats are concentrated in Philadelphia. (I said this at the time, by the way.)

    (I put "natural gerrymanders" in quotes because it is not standard usage, but I haven't been able to find a better phrase to describe the phenomena.)

    I think here in the UK the word isn't used to describe what you refer to as "natural gerrymanders". It has to be deliberate on the part of politicians.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    They know it’s over, and they’re fighting to take over after Sunak’s defeat.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,106
    It’s clear that Braverman, Patel, and Mordaunt all fancy their chances in 24.

    Johnson is still lurking.

    Badenoch is in the doghouse, but likely only temporarily.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    edited May 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    Question everything ban nothing revolutionary communists with Trotskyitus. Yes. It’s a thing.

    The people who formed Spiked magazine. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/living-marxism/no63-jan-1994.pdf

    Libertarian as always presumed as right wing, but there are libertarian marxists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Marxist

    Some teenagers go through a phase like this, suddenly thinking it’s cool if there was no authority, no states, no religion, no heaven or hell, and they can let their hair grow long. It’s perfectly normal. 99% grow out of it and go on to be dependable Conservative voters. But alas for some, they just get stuck there, like some Groundhog Day, and sadly there is nothing you can do for them except hit them hard as possible with truncheons at demonstrations, raid their squats to stitch them up as drug dealers, and lock them in prison.

    Does that answer your question 🙂
    You and Doug need to lay off the Fondant Fancies.
    They appear to have hallucinogenic properties.
    I wish!

    But yes, it was great to put Farooq right, after he had got something so wrong again. Liberal Marxism is a thing, an anti authoritarian thing, probably closer to actual dialectical Marxism than the hysterically clueless authoritarian military State based rubbish of Lenin and Mao.

    Time for me to say my prayers now 😇


  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,730
    edited May 2023
    Just awful:

    "New Zealand hostel fire: At least six dead and more missing in Wellington"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-65605545
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117

    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    Question everything ban nothing revolutionary communists with Trotskyitus. Yes. It’s a thing.

    The people who formed Spiked magazine. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/living-marxism/no63-jan-1994.pdf

    Libertarian as always presumed as right wing, but there are libertarian marxists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Marxist

    Some teenagers go through a phase like this, suddenly thinking it’s cool if there was no authority, no states, no religion, no heaven or hell, and they can let their hair grow long. It’s perfectly normal. 99% grow out of it and go on to be dependable Conservative voters. But alas for some, they just get stuck there, like some Groundhog Day, and sadly there is nothing you can do for them except hit them hard as possible with truncheons at demonstrations, raid their squats to stitch them up as drug dealers, and lock them in prison.

    Does that answer your question 🙂
    You and Doug need to lay off the Fondant Fancies.
    They appear to have hallucinogenic properties.
    I wish!

    But yes, it was great to put Farooq right, after he had got something so wrong again. Liberal Marxism is a thing, an anti authoritarian thing, probably closer to actual dialectical Marxism than the hysterically clueless authoritarian military State based rubbish of Lenin and Mao.

    Time for me to say my prayers now 😇


    1. An adherent of Liberal Marxism is a Liberal Marxist, not a Marxist Liberal
    2. I am stealing your meme 😀
    3. It is ironic that by posting this reply to your post mentioning the word "dialectical", I am engaging in a dialectic
    4. You left the piggies out of your prayers ☹️
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    Question everything ban nothing revolutionary communists with Trotskyitus. Yes. It’s a thing.

    The people who formed Spiked magazine. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/living-marxism/no63-jan-1994.pdf

    Libertarian as always presumed as right wing, but there are libertarian marxists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Marxist

    Some teenagers go through a phase like this, suddenly thinking it’s cool if there was no authority, no states, no religion, no heaven or hell, and they can let their hair grow long. It’s perfectly normal. 99% grow out of it and go on to be dependable Conservative voters. But alas for some, they just get stuck there, like some Groundhog Day, and sadly there is nothing you can do for them except hit them hard as possible with truncheons at demonstrations, raid their squats to stitch them up as drug dealers, and lock them in prison.

    Does that answer your question 🙂
    You and Doug need to lay off the Fondant Fancies.
    They appear to have hallucinogenic properties.
    I wish!

    But yes, it was great to put Farooq right, after he had got something so wrong again. Liberal Marxism is a thing, an anti authoritarian thing, probably closer to actual dialectical Marxism than the hysterically clueless authoritarian military State based rubbish of Lenin and Mao.

    Time for me to say my prayers now 😇


    1. An adherent of Liberal Marxism is a Liberal Marxist, not a Marxist Liberal
    2. I am stealing your meme 😀
    3. It is ironic that by posting this reply to your post mentioning the word "dialectical", I am engaging in a dialectic
    4. You left the piggies out of your prayers ☹️
    Piggies are Tuesday night. 🙋‍♀️
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,612
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-15/germany-pressures-china-to-shut-secret-police-outposts-in-berlin

    Germany has called on China to close illegal overseas police stations that German authorities suspect are being used by the government in Beijing to control and intimidate Chinese expatriates living abroad.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,456
    Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is skeptical of all justifications for authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including, though not necessarily limited to, governments, nation states,[1] and capitalism. Anarchism advocates for the replacement of the state with stateless societies or other forms of free associations. As a historically left-wing movement, this reading of anarchism is placed on the farthest left of the political spectrum, it is usually described as the libertarian wing of the socialist movement (libertarian socialism).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 654
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KeithOlbermann
    BREAKING: sexual abuse suit against Rudy Giuliani includes bombshell allegation

    Giuliani told alleged victim he was "SELLING PARDONS" for $2,000,000 each "which he and Trump would split" AND SHE HAS RECORDINGS AND EMAILS

    https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/1658201258656759809

    LOL. Worst. Lawyer. Ever.
    The complaint against him is one of the most sordid legal documents I’ve encountered.
    https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/650033_2023_Noelle_Dunphy_v_Rudolph_W_Giuliani_et_al_COMPLAINT_10.pdf

    Utterly vile man.
    I agree...but she doesnt come out of this well.. sounds like a gold digger who clearly agreed (albeit relectantly) to sex in exchange for promise of wealth. But he is without doubt an obnoxious vile creep who has abused his power and deserves the retribution coming his way.

    I predict an out of court settlement for $5 million
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,878
    edited May 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory MPs accuse Suella Braverman of making bid for party leadership
    Party colleagues condemn home secretary’s ‘outrageous’ National Conservatism conference speech, and say it undermined Sunak

    Despairing Conservative MPs have accused Suella Braverman of undermining Rishi Sunak’s authority and making a bid for the future leadership of the party with a partisan speech railing against experts and elites."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/tory-mps-accuse-suella-braverman-of-undermining-sunak-authority

    The Gurdian is the only one to have given it negative coverage.

    What I find fun, having seen them interviewed so many times and know their politics, you can easily match the “unnamed” senior people they are quoting. The first quote is from Hunt - who is probably so exasperated of his behind scenes battles with Suella now. The last quote is from Grannt Schappes.

    Team Braverman are very connected. The Telegraph prints every front page Suella writes for them. The team helping Braverman are the strongest the Tories have got at the moment, much stronger than the out of touch learning on the job team Sunak has around him. They are running rings round him on cut through to voters and the base.


    I agree. You know when you've spent too long taking an interest in politics when you can recognise a particular MPs style of writing/speaking without knowing who they are, lol. I'm in that category.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,878
    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,002

    darkage said:

    This National Conservatism Conference really is something else. If there's a concern that we import wokeness from the USA, there should be much more concern about this importation of US-funded evangelical right-wing nuttiness and, in particular, the appearance of several leading Tory MPs. I note, for example, that Wiki says Miriam Cates is an evangelical Christian. Is it the British Tea Party movement?

    If anybody's interested, I came across this article by John Hayes on Conservative Home. Scary stuff, I think. Even the Tory commenters mostly seem to think he's as mad as a box of frogs.

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/15/john-hayes-national-conservatism-can-help-the-government-deliver-on-the-promises-of-2019/

    @Northern_Al
    Could you explain what part of this article you are scared about?
    I didn't say I was scared - I said it was scary stuff. By that, I mean unhinged. Pretty much all of it. it's close to globalist conspiracy nonsense, echoes US fundamentalism, is obsessed with Blair, reeks with nostalgia for a time that never was, is obsessed with a minor issue (trans etc.) in the big scheme of things..... Most of all, Hayes seems to think he understands the wants and desires of 'ordinary' people whereas he is, in fact, clueless.

    I could go on, but I want to watch the second half of the football (like the ordinary person I am).
    Perhaps this is just the tories getting ready for a period of opposition. Not sure it is particularly scary though.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,219
    Oh dearie me:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-issued-subpoena-in-lawsuit-over-jpmorgans-ties-to-jeffrey-epstein-3fb9bdd8

    TL;DR, looks like Elon Musk introduced Jeffrey Epstein to JPMorgan.

    Whoops.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070

    Gerrymander = manipulation of GEOGRAPHIC boundaries (for example, legislative districts) for electoral advantage.

    This has been American definition of the word, invented in USA and named after an American politico for his contribution to the practice, for over 200 hundred years.

    WHY our British cousins have decided to expand meaning of gerrymander, to include (it seems) ANY manipulation of electoral process, is beyond me.

    Do any of you have a clue?

    My guess is quasi-ignorance combined with unalloyed laziness; that is, mis-users have heard of the word, but NOT what it actually means - and haven't bothered to find out.

    As it was already an invented word it's not a massive deal to extend its meaning.

    The English language is there to serve the writer, not the other way around.

    "Voter Suppression" is not only clumsy, it doesn't real do justice to it. It's not just 'suppression,' it's denial, theft, tinpot dictator antics.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    edited May 2023
    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658
    ...
    Heathener said:

    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.

    I am not uncomfortable with any widening of the franchise. I was engaged and campaigning at the 1979 election when I was under eighteen, as it happened for Roger Pincham, the Liberal candidate in Leominster constituency. Either way, whether this change is right or wrong will be debated.

    What is wrong, and many thanks to Mike for the header, is the wilful withdrawal (theft, as you say) of legal votes from voters for party political gain. That is Trumpian, Putinesque wicked.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,219
    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    What a fascinating idea.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,667
    Hurrah.

    Jonny Bairstow is set to be selected as England’s wicketkeeper for the Ashes and regain the Test gloves for the first time since 2021, with Ben Foakes out in the cold.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/05/15/england-ashes-news-jonny-bairstow-wicketkeeper-ben-foakes/
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658
    Heathener said:

    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.

    This is why I believe you are wrong about a Starmer landslide or anything of the sort.

    Way, way back in 1997 the media was on board with Team Tony, even the Mail, the Express (then owned by Clive Hollick) and the Super Soaraway Sun. Now they all detest Starmer and Labour with avengeance. They will present any old lies to prevent a Labour Government.

    Labour are nowhere near home and hosed.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,136
    edited May 2023

    Heathener said:

    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.

    This is why I believe you are wrong about a Starmer landslide or anything of the sort.

    Way, way back in 1997 the media was on board with Team Tony, even the Mail, the Express (then owned by Clive Hollick) and the Super Soaraway Sun. Now they all detest Starmer and Labour with avengeance. They will present any old lies to prevent a Labour Government.

    Labour are nowhere near home and hosed.
    But newspaper readership is way down on 1997, and some papers which were taken seriously then are no longer.

    The Mail is for a relatively small, insular clientele that is never going to vote Labour anyway. The Express is a joke. The Telegraph is no longer a serious paper.

    Labour has little to fear from any of them.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,039
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    This National Conservatism Conference really is something else. If there's a concern that we import wokeness from the USA, there should be much more concern about this importation of US-funded evangelical right-wing nuttiness and, in particular, the appearance of several leading Tory MPs. I note, for example, that Wiki says Miriam Cates is an evangelical Christian. Is it the British Tea Party movement?

    If anybody's interested, I came across this article by John Hayes on Conservative Home. Scary stuff, I think. Even the Tory commenters mostly seem to think he's as mad as a box of frogs.

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/15/john-hayes-national-conservatism-can-help-the-government-deliver-on-the-promises-of-2019/

    @Northern_Al
    Could you explain what part of this article you are scared about?
    All of it?

    “People yearned for a self-confident, common-sense government that put the interests of hard-working, law-abiding patriots first.” putting the interests of “patriots” first means criminalising dissent and is incompatible with democracy.
    Doesn't every government try to appeal to this sentiment though ?
    No. Most political parties talk about “hard-working families”. Language about putting “patriots first” only comes the extremes.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,928
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh dearie me:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-issued-subpoena-in-lawsuit-over-jpmorgans-ties-to-jeffrey-epstein-3fb9bdd8

    TL;DR, looks like Elon Musk introduced Jeffrey Epstein to JPMorgan.

    Whoops.

    I know it's Dr Feigl-Ding but musky Elon seems also to have checked off 'Evil Soros' on his what a knob CV.



    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1658341821544636418?s=20
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,808
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Ye I voted to stay in but I did hope Brexit might give us some control over our borders. Well our politicians as a collective clearly don't want to take the necessary steps to enable that control, or if they do are so incompetent they might as well not bother.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,059
    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    That's a fascinating idea, although I bet there would be significant secondary effects that would be hard to model as well. Earthquakes, for one.

    Incidentally, AIUI the Mediterranean is far deeper today than it was before it flooded; the weight of water caused the bottom to sink.

    Of course, we all know the Straits of Gibraltar opened because Felice (The Great Carbuncle?) ripped it open in order to drown the hated Tanu...

    (Kudos to anyone who gets the reference...)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,928

    Heathener said:

    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.

    This is why I believe you are wrong about a Starmer landslide or anything of the sort.

    Way, way back in 1997 the media was on board with Team Tony, even the Mail, the Express (then owned by Clive Hollick) and the Super Soaraway Sun. Now they all detest Starmer and Labour with avengeance. They will present any old lies to prevent a Labour Government.

    Labour are nowhere near home and hosed.
    But newspaper readership is way down on 1997, and some papers which were taken seriously then are no longer.

    The Mail is for a relatively small, insular clientele that is never going to vote Labour anyway. The Express is a joke. The Telegraph is no longer a serious paper.

    Labour has little to fear from any of them.
    All their headlines still get highlighted by the BBC day in, day out though.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,551
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the main aims of Brexit was to control the UK's borders. That's clearly been a failure.
    Ye I voted to stay in but I did hope Brexit might give us some control over our borders. Well our politicians as a collective clearly don't want to take the necessary steps to enable that control, or if they do are so incompetent they might as well not bother.
    We can't afford to squeeze net migration to a small number; we need more working age people than that, including people to do low-paid jobs.

    Bottom line is that beggars can't be choosers.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658

    Heathener said:

    And yet the Daily Mail continues its attack on Starmer for his proposed EU citizens vote idea.

    Clue: one form of gerrymandering has already been enacted, the other hasn't.

    The serious papers cover news that 1/5th of taxpayers will be in the 40% bracket.

    This is why I believe you are wrong about a Starmer landslide or anything of the sort.

    Way, way back in 1997 the media was on board with Team Tony, even the Mail, the Express (then owned by Clive Hollick) and the Super Soaraway Sun. Now they all detest Starmer and Labour with avengeance. They will present any old lies to prevent a Labour Government.

    Labour are nowhere near home and hosed.
    But newspaper readership is way down on 1997, and some papers which were taken seriously then are no longer.

    The Mail is for a relatively small, insular clientele that is never going to vote Labour anyway. The Express is a joke. The Telegraph is no longer a serious paper.

    Labour has little to fear from any of them.
    All their headlines still get highlighted by the BBC day in, day out though.
    Yes the BBC (Robbie Gibb) News has a pro Government stance. It didn't in '97.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,531
    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    The Qattara depression idea has been around for some time. It was proposed at one time to use nukes to move the rocks and build a canal. Eisenhower vetoed the idea. There are lots of variations on what can be done. Tunnel boring machines can cut through the rocks, a canal can be dug with a turbine power station to catch the energy flow. Lots of graet ideas but for whatever reason nobody gets on with it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800
    edited May 2023

    Hurrah.

    Jonny Bairstow is set to be selected as England’s wicketkeeper for the Ashes and regain the Test gloves for the first time since 2021, with Ben Foakes out in the cold.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/05/15/england-ashes-news-jonny-bairstow-wicketkeeper-ben-foakes/

    Bairstow can't buy a run this season and he's been keeping pretty badly too (his untidiness was one reason why Yorkshire lost to Durham).

    If the England selectors do this they're even stupider than I thought they were.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,667
    edited May 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Hurrah.

    Jonny Bairstow is set to be selected as England’s wicketkeeper for the Ashes and regain the Test gloves for the first time since 2021, with Ben Foakes out in the cold.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/05/15/england-ashes-news-jonny-bairstow-wicketkeeper-ben-foakes/

    Bairstow can't buy a run this season and he's been keeping pretty badly too (his untidiness was one reason why Yorkshire lost to Durham).

    If the England selectors do this they're even stupider than I thought they were.
    Don’t doubt Stokes and McCullum.

    Edit - Bairstow keeping fine this season.

    https://twitter.com/yorkshireccc/status/1654124148304793601?s=46
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,325

    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    The Qattara depression idea has been around for some time. It was proposed at one time to use nukes to move the rocks and build a canal. Eisenhower vetoed the idea. There are lots of variations on what can be done. Tunnel boring machines can cut through the rocks, a canal can be dug with a turbine power station to catch the energy flow. Lots of graet ideas but for whatever reason nobody gets on with it.
    Another pretty obvious one is to refill the Aral Sea, but that does require reducing river water diversion into cotton growing, so has an agricultural impact. Too far from sea to flood in the Qattara style.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,667
    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,461
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is a family where the father is beating the wife and sexually abusing the children a family unit which should stay together?
    For Centuries the traditional answer was yes.

    A very rare occurrence, which you and the liberal left will use to push your agenda while completely ignoring for the vast majority the stability, security and stable birthrates family life bought. Thank God the National Conservativism conference today is beginning the fightback in the culture war, you on the woke left have had your way for too long!!
    Security? In the past when women were traded into marriage as chattel. When women lost their property rights and their right to refuse consent to sex. When pregnancy was something that could not reliably be prevented even if the economic and medical circumstances a couple were living in situation meant it was desperately cruel and dangerous to bring another child into the world.

    Thank goodness we've moved on. And if you want to erroneously pin this progress onto the woke left then I'm sure they'll thank you for it but truly the credit belongs the vast bulk of the sensible people across the political spectrum who have worked to create conditions were men and women are free from the oppressive strictures of the Good Old Days.

    Fuck the past. It was shit.
    Women haven't been traded into marriage for chattels for centuries. Pregnancy and family and marriage is not some cruel thing but the essence of life and community.

    You and your marxist liberal ilk have had your way for too long. It is time to fight back for family, flag, tradition and nation. At least one thing opposition will allow is a regrouping and rethinking of conservatism on first principles. Ready to go into battle against you and your fellow Woke Marxists and fight the culture wars you started with real strength!
    I see the National Socialist Conservative rally has fired you up.
    I want to know what a Marxist liberal is, because they seem like contradictory ideas to me. I am a self-confessed liberal, for my sins. People like me tend to be targeted by Marxists as crypto-conservatives, as agents of reaction and I'm as happy to wear that label from a Marxist as I am to wear the label of leftist from someone like you. Yes you, self-confessed fan of Franco. Yes you, with your Kinder, Küche, Kirche views. Yes you, self-consciously peddling the Tsarist slogans. From your perspective I guess liberals and Marxists look the same. But that's because you're way off in some Imperial Russian fantasy, and you are very, very lost.
    I think "Marxist liberal" is to right-wing people what "fascist" is to left-wing people: a defined term that's been ripped from its original meaning and now flaps in the wind untethered - a reference without a referent.
    I'm not sure it is a defined term, I have never heard of it and I think it would be hard from an ideological point of view to be both. The appropriate term for someone with the kind of views I think it is talking about is Libertarian Socialist. I think it's just something from the American hard Right, along the lines of Cultural Marxist, maybe an effort to avoid the antisemitic origins of the latter phrase. In the US Liberal means left wing, it doesn't have the classical liberalism connotations it does here so Marxist liberal would make a bit much more sense in a US context (although the Liberal part is tautological rather than contradictory), whereas here it doesn't make any sense at all.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,557

    JohnO and myself are having our regular PB Tory lunch today.

    Any thoughts on who we should discuss?

    Also I’m being dragged to a restaurant called the Ham Yard.

    Pizza toppings seem appropriate.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,031
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Tres said:

    This National Conservatism Conference really is something else. If there's a concern that we import wokeness from the USA, there should be much more concern about this importation of US-funded evangelical right-wing nuttiness and, in particular, the appearance of several leading Tory MPs. I note, for example, that Wiki says Miriam Cates is an evangelical Christian. Is it the British Tea Party movement?

    If anybody's interested, I came across this article by John Hayes on Conservative Home. Scary stuff, I think. Even the Tory commenters mostly seem to think he's as mad as a box of frogs.

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/15/john-hayes-national-conservatism-can-help-the-government-deliver-on-the-promises-of-2019/

    more like the mad hatters party
    It's all the fault of John Lennon. That's why the West is going to the dogs.

    Western civilisation is threatened by a "new religion", a mix of "Marxism, narcissism and paganism", conforming to the "dystopian fantasy of John Lennon"


    https://twitter.com/broderly/status/1658108814413971456
    Anti country, anti religion, anti assets and wealth and possessions, yes John Lennon's Imagine was everything the populist conservative Right loathes
    "Imagine all the people
    Livin' life in peace
    ...
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man"

    The monster.
    It's not monstrous to declare that it would be nice to live in peace. It's just weird that some people end up supporting genuinely monstrous peoples' aims whilst insisting they are still just all about peace. Or seem more committed to revolutionary politics as a goal in itself, and rejecting perfectly good measures on the grounds it doesn't require revoluntary politics.

    Was that how Lennon was? I have no idea, I guess he was influential to old people, but even as a not young person he means nothing to me other than some tunes were ok and apparently he was a bit of a dick.
    But.. But… Pol Pot had good intentions. As did Mao. And Stalin. And Hitler.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,301
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Why have these ideas not attracted more international attention ?
    (I'd never heard of them.)

    Seem no brainers, with no great downside at all; the Sahara one might also mitigate global migration.

    Seaflooding
    The Surprising Solution to Mitigate Climate Change, Create More Life, and Grow the Economy
    https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/seaflooding

    The Qattara depression idea has been around for some time. It was proposed at one time to use nukes to move the rocks and build a canal. Eisenhower vetoed the idea. There are lots of variations on what can be done. Tunnel boring machines can cut through the rocks, a canal can be dug with a turbine power station to catch the energy flow. Lots of great ideas but for whatever reason nobody gets on with it.
    If the Foreign Secretary was of any practical use, we'd be doing something to further the plans. And it would be a great deal easier to model the effects than it was a decade or two back.

    It's complicated (particularly the Israel/Jordan plan) because it involves international politics. They are also quite long term projects which would require substantial international funding.
    But the potential economic and geopolitical upsides, not to mention climate change mitigation, are enormous.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,241
    Very interesting bio of Ed Davey in the Guardian. He’s had a very hard life. He’s determined to get the Tories out.
This discussion has been closed.