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A thing of the past – LAB leads of 20%+? – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    No, it's contrary to the current government's 'balanced' approach.

    This lot, whoever they are (*), would appear to be paying.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy
    ...She is expected to deliver the Taiwan speech in the early hours of the morning UK time at an event organised by the Prospect Foundation thinktank. It was among groups China imposed sanctions on last month in retaliation for Pelosi’s meeting with the Taiwanese president...

    edit
    *
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_Foundation

    If the Foreign Office wanted her not to go, they would advise as such, and even Truss would probably follow that advice. So we can assume tacit approval. If not, I'm sure someone will leak...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited May 2023

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    Unlike energy there's no general rule of conservation of 'intelligence' so what we need to do is create an AI that makes a better AI (That can itself improve ...) and give it lots of computing power.
    Iteratively it should solve the world's problems ;)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    ...

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    I'm all in favour of supporting Taiwan. I'm just not sure how Liz Truss upping the temperature as part of her latest vanity project in any way achieves that.
    In other words, your objection has nothing at all to do with whether making a speech in Taiwan is the right thing to do, and everything to do with your personal feelings about who is making it.
    Absolutely. Lizz Truss is a proven incompetent, failure and narcissist. Nevertheless, she is still a former British prime minister and that alone carries significant weight. So we have a dangerous mix here. When she starts going around stirring the hornets' nest that has graver implications than if a nonentity such as you or I did likewise. The woman doesn't have anything useful to say about anything, let alone about the fraught subject of China's claim to Taiwan. Let her go away and work in a charity shop or something, in infinite silence. We don't need her. The world doesn't need her.
    Given that you express support for Taiwan, the normalisation of British politicians traveling there to speak, of their own volition, and not as part of a calculated foreign policy push, is surely to be welcomed - especially politicians who once held high office.

    But your posts make it quite clear that your argument isn't really a logical one; it's based on you carrying a great deal of bitterness and resentment for an individual - you have my sympathies. I wish you well on your personal journey.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    edited May 2023

    kinabalu said:

    Have we mentioned Sir Menzies Campbell in the former sports star turned politician list?

    How about John Major? He liked playing sport...
    And David Mellor ,,, didn't he play for Chelsea?
    Didn’t Gerry Adams used to shoot professionally?
    No - a DIYer of some note, though

    Edit: and a noted proponent of sports medicine. For a while Northern Ireland was *the* place for reconstructing badly damaged joints.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    Unlike energy there's no general rule of conservation of 'intelligence' so what we need to do is create an AI that makes a better AI (That can itself improve ...) and give it lots of computing power.
    Iteratively it should solve the world's problems ;)
    The Deep Thought option.

    Back on topic; India looks to be going light touch on AI regulation and there’s no guarantee that they’d submit to First World restrictions. Bad regs will likely see us out competed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    And mainland Chinese politicians banging on about “re-taking” Taiwan are masturbating with missiles…
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    There's not a hope in hell of that working. We couldn't stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons, it only stops those that volunteer to do so, and making the bomb requires things that are quite obvious like mining, and operating reactors and enrichment plants. How do you stop a state or company training AI? It won't look any different from any other computer system, and the cost to do so will continue to fall. At some point training advanced AI will fall within the scope of even individuals. If AGI is possible the horse has already bolted.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2023
    Foss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    Unlike energy there's no general rule of conservation of 'intelligence' so what we need to do is create an AI that makes a better AI (That can itself improve ...) and give it lots of computing power.
    Iteratively it should solve the world's problems ;)
    The Deep Thought option.

    Back on topic; India looks to be going light touch on AI regulation and there’s no guarantee that they’d submit to First World restrictions. Bad regs will likely see us out competed.
    This is going to quickly become a complete nightmare for the West.

    The cat is crawling out of the bag, and countries and regions have very different views on the ethics of AI implementations.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    *Politics*
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Eabhal said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    *Politics*
    It’s displacement.
    Britain has more pressing issues to worry about.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714

    ...

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    I'm all in favour of supporting Taiwan. I'm just not sure how Liz Truss upping the temperature as part of her latest vanity project in any way achieves that.
    In other words, your objection has nothing at all to do with whether making a speech in Taiwan is the right thing to do, and everything to do with your personal feelings about who is making it.
    Absolutely. Lizz Truss is a proven incompetent, failure and narcissist. Nevertheless, she is still a former British prime minister and that alone carries significant weight. So we have a dangerous mix here. When she starts going around stirring the hornets' nest that has graver implications than if a nonentity such as you or I did likewise. The woman doesn't have anything useful to say about anything, let alone about the fraught subject of China's claim to Taiwan. Let her go away and work in a charity shop or something, in infinite silence. We don't need her. The world doesn't need her.
    Given that you express support for Taiwan, the normalisation of British politicians traveling there to speak, of their own volition, and not as part of a calculated foreign policy push, is surely to be welcomed - especially politicians who once held high office.

    But your posts make it quite clear that your argument isn't really a logical one; it's based on you carrying a great deal of bitterness and resentment for an individual - you have my sympathies. I wish you well on your personal journey.
    Not at all. I have no bitterness towards Liz Truss - the Tories flung her too quickly for her to have any great personal impact on me. Nevertheless, the woman's deadly flaws are all too apparent. For this reason, she needs to be kept in a box. Letting her stir things up in a region of massive diplomatic and military tensions is rather the opposite of that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    glw said:

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    There's not a hope in hell of that working. We couldn't stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons, it only stops those that volunteer to do so, and making the bomb requires things that are quite obvious like mining, and operating reactors and enrichment plants. How do you stop a state or company training AI? It won't look any different from any other computer system, and the cost to do so will continue to fall. At some point training advanced AI will fall within the scope of even individuals. If AGI is possible the horse has already bolted.
    Actually, the NPT is holding moderately well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    Actually it's quite justifiable posturing.
    I'm not going to argue about whether or not Truss is absurd, as that's rather beside the point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Eabhal said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    *Politics*
    It’s displacement.
    Britain has more pressing issues to worry about.
    Yes. Enforcing the Treaty of Paris, for one
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Eabhal said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    *Politics*
    It’s displacement.
    Britain has more pressing issues to worry about.
    Liz doesn't.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    *Politics*
    It’s displacement.
    Britain has more pressing issues to worry about.
    Liz doesn't.
    She's not Churchill sat on the backbenches...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
    She's quite enough of a loose cannon to have done so without consultation.
    I couldn't guess whether she is or isn't sanctioned by the FO.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    ...

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    I'm all in favour of supporting Taiwan. I'm just not sure how Liz Truss upping the temperature as part of her latest vanity project in any way achieves that.
    In other words, your objection has nothing at all to do with whether making a speech in Taiwan is the right thing to do, and everything to do with your personal feelings about who is making it.
    Absolutely. Lizz Truss is a proven incompetent, failure and narcissist. Nevertheless, she is still a former British prime minister and that alone carries significant weight. So we have a dangerous mix here. When she starts going around stirring the hornets' nest that has graver implications than if a nonentity such as you or I did likewise. The woman doesn't have anything useful to say about anything, let alone about the fraught subject of China's claim to Taiwan. Let her go away and work in a charity shop or something, in infinite silence. We don't need her. The world doesn't need her.
    Given that you express support for Taiwan, the normalisation of British politicians traveling there to speak, of their own volition, and not as part of a calculated foreign policy push, is surely to be welcomed - especially politicians who once held high office.

    But your posts make it quite clear that your argument isn't really a logical one; it's based on you carrying a great deal of bitterness and resentment for an individual - you have my sympathies. I wish you well on your personal journey.
    Not at all. I have no bitterness towards Liz Truss - the Tories flung her too quickly for her to have any great personal impact on me. Nevertheless, the woman's deadly flaws are all too apparent. For this reason, she needs to be kept in a box. Letting her stir things up in a region of massive diplomatic and military tensions is rather the opposite of that.
    Liz Truss's policies (I think cancellation of the NI rise is the only notable survival) need not to have had any personal impact on you for there to have been an emotional impact - the affect of which is really quite obvious. I don't pretend to understand your particular perspective on this person, but I do sympathise.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    Actually it's quite justifiable posturing.
    I'm not going to argue about whether or not Truss is absurd, as that's rather beside the point.
    Truss is useless, but increasing our backing of Taiwan, salami slice by salami slice so as to not provoke a Chinese reaction, is a good thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    The NYSE listing lost about $10bn of market cap at one point, although it does seem to have recovered a bit in the last few days.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BUD
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    kinabalu said:

    Have we mentioned Sir Menzies Campbell in the former sports star turned politician list?

    How about John Major? He liked playing sport...
    And David Mellor ,,, didn't he play for Chelsea?
    Both were professional bedroom golf players. Comedically Major fired Mellor for being so...
    Even though it was an invention of the Sun...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    edited May 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    In any case they have nothing to apologize for. Those hounding them otoh - an ugly spectacle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    If you follow Taiwan's foreign policy efforts by occasionally reading their news sites, it's pretty clear that they are very grateful indeed for even the least significant of political/diplomatic contacts.

    I have a very low opinion indeed of Truss, but I don't see anything wrong with the visit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
    Perhaps there could be an anti-Truss memo circulated before you respond to her newest outrage, as your fellow opposers seem to think that so many people care that it's about to set off World War 3.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    CO2 looks like it has come in HOT for April.

    Met office forecast for April 2023 was 422.3 [1]

    The 2 standard deviations uncertainty is ± 0.5 ppm

    The official April average isn't posted yet [2], but according to the weekly trend graph it looks to have come in about 423.4 to me. [3]

    So well outside the MET office's predicted 421.8 -> 422.8 2 SD bounds.

    1 https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/long-range/forecasts/co2-forecast-for-2023

    2 https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/mlo.html

    3 https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/weekly.html

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
    The Chinese and the Taiwanese will care.

    It will be interesting to see what the Chinese response is, and whether the FO get cold feet and disown her completely.

    It seems pretty clear to be that the Western strategy is to avoid the mistakes made over Ukraine, and to provide stronger support to Taiwan earlier in order to dissuade a Chinese invasion attempt. Truss appears to be playing a very minor role in this.

    You should care about whether this strategy succeeds. Much depends on it.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
    Her doing this is a precedent, which makes the next precedent less precedented. If Sunak now goes after he leaves office, it will be less of a big deal. That in turn will make it easier for a sitting PM to go. That should continue until Taiwan is so clearly part of the string of Western alliances, that China realises an invasion would be devastating for them. It is what we failed to do in Ukraine.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/
    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited May 2023
    Legislature eyeing international affairs office in September
    https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2023/05/09/2003799434
    The Legislative Yuan yesterday passed a preliminary review of a proposed amendment to the Organic Act of the Legislative Yuan (立法院組織法) which would establish an international affairs office.

    If a third reading of the amendment can be completed during the current legislative session, which ends this month, the office could be established as soon as the next session, which is to begin in September, Legislative Yuan Secretary-General Lin Jih-jia (林志嘉) said yesterday.

    International affairs are currently handled by the public relations division of the legislature’s Secretariat, which comprises only eight people, he said.
    That has proved insufficient due to the increasing numbers of delegations visiting Taiwan, Lin said, adding that the legislature sometimes has to enlist the help of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and business groups...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    What does a British "security guarantee" for Taiwan look like?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
    Yes, it is possible that she's being used by the FO in some sort of kite-flying exercise, but why chose Britain's shortest serving PM, who was humiliatingly ejected from office after almost bringing about economic collapse? Truss is so discredited that her pontificating on behalf of Taiwan can only give a kind of validation to the Chinese. There must be some serious 19D chess going on here.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476

    viewcode said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Former international sportsmen or women as major politicians. Imran Khan, George Weah, Klitchko, any others? (Trump playing golf doesn’t count).
    Ted Heath, surely? Didn't he win some big yachting competition?

    ETA: Yes, he did, although apparently when he was PM, rather than before!
    Pope John Paul II. Goalkeeper.
    Lord Astor: won a gold and a bronze at the 1908 Olympics in rackets (whatever that is) and later Conservative MP for Dover. His son was also a Conservative MP, rising to be a PPS.
    “Rising to be a PPS”… 😂😂
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/
    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Dura_Ace said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    What does a British "security guarantee" for Taiwan look like?
    Mark Francois, with a salad bowl on his head, reporting for duty.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Dura_Ace said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    What does a British "security guarantee" for Taiwan look like?
    Promising to provide whatever we can scrounge together to not get too much in the way of the USA's efforts to defend the place.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
    Yes, it is possible that she's being used by the FO in some sort of kite-flying exercise, but why chose Britain's shortest serving PM, who was humiliatingly ejected from office after almost bringing about economic collapse? Truss is so discredited that her pontificating on behalf of Taiwan can only give a kind of validation to the Chinese. There must be some serious 19D chess going on here.
    There’s no chess being played here.
    This is Truss, playing tiddlywinks, against herself.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015
    Dura_Ace said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    What does a British "security guarantee" for Taiwan look like?
    Maybe we could send some NLAWS “peashooters” (TM DumaAce)
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,596
    WillG said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
    Her doing this is a precedent, which makes the next precedent less precedented. If Sunak now goes after he leaves office, it will be less of a big deal. That in turn will make it easier for a sitting PM to go. That should continue until Taiwan is so clearly part of the string of Western alliances, that China realises an invasion would be devastating for them. It is what we failed to do in Ukraine.
    And how would we "devastate" China? Send their students home and bankrupt several UK universities?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?

    Dunno. But on that note, where’s the British FAANG?

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    When I got to the bit where he complained about “two men intentionally depriving babies of their natural mothers” (presumably gay adoption?) I gave up.

    He’s got issues
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    When I got to the bit where he complained about “two men intentionally depriving babies of their natural mothers” (presumably gay adoption?) I gave up.

    He’s got issues
    That's about surrogacy, I think ("rent a womb").
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    The NYSE listing lost about $10bn of market cap at one point, although it does seem to have recovered a bit in the last few days.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BUD
    If you look at the YTD it's a tiny blip, even at the bottom of you so-called 'crash'.

    There's no way you can call that a 'crash'.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/

    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
    The war in Europe was won by Churchill’s government… but if Labour wants the use of nuclear weapons on their ticket…

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    In any case they have nothing to apologize for. Those hounding them otoh - an ugly spectacle.
    Those hounding them are the usual suspects, the woke left angrily demanding no apology.

    The right-wingers are simply buying a different beer.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?

    Dunno. But on that note, where’s the British FAANG?

    As we’ve discussed before the US ecosystem and market size supported the growth of global tech companies.

    Friends Reunited / Facebook
    Amstrad / Apple
    ? / Amazon
    Lovefilm / Netflix
    ? / Google


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    When I got to the bit where he complained about “two men intentionally depriving babies of their natural mothers” (presumably gay adoption?) I gave up.

    He’s got issues
    That's about surrogacy, I think ("rent a womb").
    If you conflate with the buying eggs / renting a womb yes. But he seems to have an issue with gay parenthood in any event

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    When I got to the bit where he complained about “two men intentionally depriving babies of their natural mothers” (presumably gay adoption?) I gave up.

    He’s got issues
    Go woke, go broke.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    In any case they have nothing to apologize for. Those hounding them otoh - an ugly spectacle.
    Those hounding them are the usual suspects, the woke left angrily demanding no apology.

    The right-wingers are simply buying a different beer.
    That suggests that Budweiser is somehow connected to the sale of beer.

    Do you have any evidence of that?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    When I got to the bit where he complained about “two men intentionally depriving babies of their natural mothers” (presumably gay adoption?) I gave up.

    He’s got issues
    That's about surrogacy, I think ("rent a womb").
    It’s pretty mainstream opinion among American Christian conservatives.

    As with most cultural opinions, there’s few shades of grey in the US, just total polarisation.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
    Yes, it is possible that she's being used by the FO in some sort of kite-flying exercise, but why chose Britain's shortest serving PM, who was humiliatingly ejected from office after almost bringing about economic collapse? Truss is so discredited that her pontificating on behalf of Taiwan can only give a kind of validation to the Chinese. There must be some serious 19D chess going on here.
    There’s no chess being played here.
    This is Truss, playing tiddlywinks, against herself.
    Hmm. Steve Bannon prophesized in 2017 that the US would go to war with China in 'in five to ten years'. And Truss recently gave a speech to the Heritage Foundation, which Bannon was once rumoured to be about to take over. I think I'm seeing the rabbit hole down which Liz is descending.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?

    Dunno. But on that note, where’s the British FAANG?

    As we’ve discussed before the US ecosystem and market size supported the growth of global tech companies.

    Friends Reunited / Facebook
    Amstrad / Apple
    ? / Amazon
    Lovefilm / Netflix
    ? / Google

    This is a circular argument, though.
    If we don’t have the eco-system or market size to compete in a monopoly-tending digital economy, what do we do?

    We have, I believe, the innovation and technical ability.

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,596
    Chris Chataway, Tory MP and a minister in the Heath government, won the 3 miles at the 1954 Empire/Commonwealth games, held the world 5000m record for a time, and was one of Roger Bannister's pacemakers.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    edited May 2023
    Guido claiming that Andrew Bridgen is joining Reclaim (as opposed to Reform or any other two-syllable words beginning with "Re" it would not be remotely acceptable for me to use):

    https://order-order.com/2023/05/09/andrew-bridgen-officially-joining-laurence-foxs-reclaim-party/

    Andrew Bridgen and Laurence Fox. What a delightful pairing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Notts County vs Chesterfield Play Off Final at Wembley on Saturday

    Coach Prices - Notts £31 Spireites £59
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    Notts County vs Chesterfield Play Off Final at Wembley on Saturday

    Coach Prices - Notts £31 Spireites £59

    Probably about twice as many of the former than the latter, at a guess?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    I have A Modest Proposal…
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    That poll mentions assisted dying. Surely that and euthanasia are not the same thing.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778

    WillG said:

    British politicians going to Taiwan is absurd posturing.

    I tend to think it's very useful Overton-window adjustment that will make it easier for other Western politicians to do the same, and ultimately for the West to recognise any future declaration of independence by Taiwan, and provide security guarantees for the same.

    It's naive to view this as the actions of British politicians in a vacuum.
    Nobody cares about Liz Truss, where she goes or what she does.

    She is a punchline to an old joke.
    Her doing this is a precedent, which makes the next precedent less precedented. If Sunak now goes after he leaves office, it will be less of a big deal. That in turn will make it easier for a sitting PM to go. That should continue until Taiwan is so clearly part of the string of Western alliances, that China realises an invasion would be devastating for them. It is what we failed to do in Ukraine.
    And how would we "devastate" China? Send their students home and bankrupt several UK universities?
    There's only 2m active service personnel in the PLA. Nowt to worry about.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2023

    Can't see Sunak doing anything other than hanging on till October 2024 at least, or very possibly January 2025.

    ...

    There is not one iota of a chance that it will be January 2025. @TSE has already dealt with this emphatically.

    It will be before October 27th 2024 when the clocks go back.

    17th months and counting until Labour win a landslide.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?

    Dunno. But on that note, where’s the British FAANG?

    About to be listed on the NYSE.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Driver said:

    Notts County vs Chesterfield Play Off Final at Wembley on Saturday

    Coach Prices - Notts £31 Spireites £59

    Probably about twice as many of the former than the latter, at a guess?
    I think there would have been 40k Notts and 20k to 25k Chesterfield but at those prices and no trains i reckon 30k and 10k
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    That poll mentions assisted dying. Surely that and euthanasia are not the same thing.
    AD is the favoured woke language these days. Same meaning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    How much of that increase was due to the FAANGS?

    Dunno. But on that note, where’s the British FAANG?

    As we’ve discussed before the US ecosystem and market size supported the growth of global tech companies.

    Friends Reunited / Facebook
    Amstrad / Apple
    ? / Amazon
    Lovefilm / Netflix
    ? / Google

    More to the point, Ferranti, Plessey / Samsung, (or more locally Infineon, or STMicroelectronics).

    Market size isn't an explanation for everything.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2023
    By the way, I keep meaning to say that however much I do or don't like the outcome of opinion polls taken over bank holidays, I am very wary of them.

    Wait another 7-10 days for the post-local and post-royal dust to settle and then let's see.

    p.s. 3 bank holiday Mondays in May? Lazy nation. ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/

    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
    The war in Europe was won by Churchill’s government… but if Labour wants the use of nuclear weapons on their ticket…

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred under Labour.

    You're welcome.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Physicists Create Elusive Particles That Remember Their Pasts
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-create-elusive-particles-that-remember-their-pasts-20230509/
    Forty years ago, Frank Wilczek was mulling over a bizarre type of particle that could live only in a flat universe. Had he put pen to paper and done the calculations, Wilczek would have found that these then-theoretical particles held an otherworldly memory of their past, one woven too thoroughly into the fabric of reality for any one disturbance to erase it.

    However, seeing no reason that nature should allow such strange beasts to exist, the future Nobel prize-winning physicist chose not to follow his thought experiments to their most outlandish conclusions — despite the objections of his collaborator Anthony Zee, a renowned theoretical physicist at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

    “I said, ‘Come on, Tony, people are going to make fun of us,’” said Wilczek, now a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    Others weren’t so reluctant. Researchers have spent millions of dollars over the past three decades or so trying to capture and tame the particlelike objects, which go by the cryptic moniker of non-abelian anyons.

    Now two landmark experiments have finally succeeded, and no one is laughing. “This has been a target, and now it’s hit,” Wilczek said.

    Physicists working with the company Quantinuum announced today that they had used the company’s newly unveiled, next-generation H2 processor to synthesize and manipulate non-abelian anyons in a novel phase of quantum matter. Their work follows a preprint posted last fall in which researchers with Google celebrated the first clear intertwining of non-abelian objects, a proof of concept that information can be stored and manipulated in their shared memory. Together, the experiments flex the growing muscle of quantum devices while offering a potential glimpse into the future of computing: By maintaining nearly indestructible records of their journeys through space and time, non-abelian anyons could offer the most promising platform for building error-tolerant quantum computers...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Heathener said:

    By the way, I keep meaning to say that however much I do or don't like the outcome of opinion polls taken over bank holidays, I am very wary of them.

    Wait another 7-10 days for the post-local and post-royal dust to settle and then let's see.

    p.s. 3 bank holiday Mondays in May? Lazy nation. ;)

    Lazy? Absolutely. Once the serfs thought they could work less than 8 days a week….

    LUUUUXURY!!!!!

    {Stage Yorkshire accent}
    {opens double case of Chateau De Chasselier}

    When I was young, we dreamed of only working 8 days a week…
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    edited May 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    That poll mentions assisted dying. Surely that and euthanasia are not the same thing.
    There are huge concerns in Canada at the moment that the basic safeties that one would expect with assisted dying (of which I am in favour with such protections) are not in place. The recent changes being proposed mean it is possible for those who are mentally ill to qualify for assisted dying. Many Canadian doctors who otherwise support and take part in assisted dying are extremely unhappy about it. They believe it has, in effect, become a form of euthanasia.

    Edited to correct as the assisted dying for mentally ill has not yet been introduced but is being promoted by the Government. The 2021 rule changes meant someone who is not terminally ill can have assisted dying.

  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    The Scottish Nasty Party really does plumb the depths. I guess he knew there was a good chance that if SNP expelled him he could expect a good chance of standing for Alba:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/snp-accused-of-turning-a-blind-eye-as-sex-pest-mp-says-he-wants-to-defend-seat/ar-AA1aTZYi?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=e169e993231d459e95d75267c5746e31&ei=17
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/

    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
    The war in Europe was won by Churchill’s government… but if Labour wants the use of nuclear weapons on their ticket…

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred under Labour.

    You're welcome.
    Democratic Party surely ...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Heathener said:

    Can't see Sunak doing anything other than hanging on till October 2024 at least, or very possibly January 2025.

    ...

    There is not one iota of a chance that it will be January 2025. @TSE has already dealt with this emphatically.

    It will be before October 27th 2024 when the clocks go back.

    17th months and counting until Labour win a landslide.
    Keir Starmer has just issued a warning to all labour supporters not to get ahead of themselves as there is work still to be done

    I would expect your hubris is in his crossshairs
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited May 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    Unlike energy there's no general rule of conservation of 'intelligence' so what we need to do is create an AI that makes a better AI (That can itself improve ...) and give it lots of computing power.
    Iteratively it should solve the world's problems ;)
    The Deep Thought option.

    Back on topic; India looks to be going light touch on AI regulation and there’s no guarantee that they’d submit to First World restrictions. Bad regs will likely see us out competed.
    This is going to quickly become a complete nightmare for the West.

    The cat is crawling out of the bag, and countries and regions have very different views on the ethics of AI implementations.
    Air India business class is OK.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
    They were always unpleasant. Now they are worse.

    And people say that some others are “too lazy” to take such jobs.

    If your benefits are withdrawn at such a rate that you are a few pence an hour better off* breaking your back stocking at Morrison vs opposed to a few hours cash in hand - WTF would you work at Morrisons?

    *not counting the travel costs, wear and tear on clothes, expense of meals away from home. All of which means you probably losing money by having a job, at first.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited May 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    That poll mentions assisted dying. Surely that and euthanasia are not the same thing.
    AD is the favoured woke language these days. Same meaning.
    Not quite. Assisted dying includes assisted suicide, in addition to euthanasia (some would no doubt argue they are the same, but discussion in medical ethics does often draw a distinction between euthanasia performed by e.g. a doctor injecting a lethal substance and assisted suicide in which the person wishing to die is given the means - e.g. a pill - by which to do so).

    Re the survey, it's a cute headline, but it may be that 1/4 have a fundamental belief in the right to assisted dying for any reason and so answer yes to all the scenarios.

    ETA: A bit like me, if asked whether I think people convicted of multiple child rapes, tortures and murders should be spared the death sentence. Yes, I do. But that's due to my view on capital punishment, not due to any sympathy with those people.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning.

    Britain has lost the global race to manufacture batteries and is now on the brink of losing the race for green hydrogen tech, says Johnson Matthew CEO

    https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1655879512142360580?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    The total capitalization of London-listed equities fell from a high of $4.3 trillion in 2007 to about $3 trillion in 2023, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Over the same period, the value of US stocks more than doubled to $43 trillion.

    https://twitter.com/ascendedyield/status/1655887809725579265?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Rejoin hit a new high in @Omnisis Brexit tracker, with voters who want the UK to re-join the EU now at 63% ...

    https://twitter.com/damianlow3/status/1655829183275122689?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    If there is any one single factor in the fall off in UK total market capitalisation it is that the regulatory rules and requirements around listing in London (not only on the Stock Market but what you have to do as a company, the various legal requirements you have to make etc) make it totally unattractive. We have a poisonous combination of regulators who gold-plate the regulations to the nth degree and what is effectively a New Labour (still) mindset of seeing corporates not as entities to generate profits but to bring about 'desired' outcomes such as in ESG, diversity etc.

    If there was one EU rule that heavily influenced things also it was MiFid2 - and in an entirely negative way when the UK (again) gold-plated the rules making research coverage of UK smaller cap companies unattractive.

    What it is not down to is Brexit.
    Long thread on why Budweiser are finding it so difficult to back down from their little controversy in the US.

    https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1655660155134943250

    TL:DR - parent company AB InBev, based in the EU, is all over the ESG, DEI and Garn stuff, and investors expect them to stick to it even as their stock crashes.
    AB InBev's share price doesn't seem to have been 'crashed':

    https://www.londonstockexchange.com/market-stock/0RJI/anheuser-busch-inbev-nv/overview
    In any case they have nothing to apologize for. Those hounding them otoh - an ugly spectacle.
    Those hounding them are the usual suspects, the woke left angrily demanding no apology.

    The right-wingers are simply buying a different beer.
    That is not what I've read. Maybe a case of the Two Twitters.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    Heathener said:

    Can't see Sunak doing anything other than hanging on till October 2024 at least, or very possibly January 2025.

    ...

    There is not one iota of a chance that it will be January 2025. @TSE has already dealt with this emphatically.

    It will be before October 27th 2024 when the clocks go back.

    17th months and counting until Labour win a landslide.
    Agreed absolutely no chance of Jan 2025.

    Also unlikely/no chance Nov or Dec 2024 but I really wouldn't rule out Thur 31 Oct 2024.

    October 2024 is big favourite with May (alignment with local elections) or early June (if local elections ok for CON) a smaller possibility.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    edited May 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/

    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
    The war in Europe was won by Churchill’s government… but if Labour wants the use of nuclear weapons on their ticket…

    But Carynx is correct. The Tories were not in Government during WW2. It was a wartime coalition. Followed in 1945 by a Labour Government. And given how often Churchill changed parties it would be dificult to claim even he was a Conservative in anything but name.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited May 2023
    [this comment intentionally left blank]

    (due to fixing an earlier editing snafu)
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 703

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Former PM Liz Truss to visit Taiwan and make a speech. An act of solidarity in the face of Chinese aggression, apparently.

    Thttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/09/liz-truss-to-visit-taiwan-and-give-speech-that-could-upset-uks-china-strategy

    That woman is seriously dangerous.
    Actually, Taiwan ought to be supported, like Ukraine.
    Who is paying for this trip ?
    Taiwan ? The UK taxpayer ? Liz Truss personally (Hah, right...) ?

    Is it part of government strategy ?

    If we think it's a good idea, why isn't Cleverly or Goldsmith doing this ?

    The situation with defending Taiwan from mainland Chinese aggression is complicated by the legal situation, where Taiwan is legally recognised as part of China.

    An ex-PM might play a useful role in adjusting the diplomatic parameters one bit at a time.
    Not just a former PM either, but also a former foreign secretary and a former trade secretary. She’s well known to the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

    There’s no chance this isn’t sanctioned by the foreign office, sending someone who’s just far enough removed from the current government to be able to say what a serving minister can’t.
    Yes, it is possible that she's being used by the FO in some sort of kite-flying exercise, but why chose Britain's shortest serving PM, who was humiliatingly ejected from office after almost bringing about economic collapse? Truss is so discredited that her pontificating on behalf of Taiwan can only give a kind of validation to the Chinese. There must be some serious 19D chess going on here.
    Do you mean as when Heath as ex-PM went to China? Didn't QEII say to him at a reception just before his trip something on the lines of: "As you are an ex-Prime Minister, if anything happens to you it won't matter very much."?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/
    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    Couple of further amendments:

    Labour: Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, and avoiding Vietnam (Harold Wilson)

    Tories: Suez, Libya
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
    Not just the low paid.

    It dawned on me recently that there could be an entire generation who cannot retire because they have rents to pay because they were unable to get on the housing ladder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Family killed in the Texas mall shooting identified as Cindy Cho, Kyu Cho and their 3-year-old son, James Cho. Their other child, William, just turned 6 and is the only survivor. They were going to the mall to exchange clothes he received for his birthday
    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1655626128105648143
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    The Pakistani government should be bracing themselves for the wrath of Khan and his supporters.
    The problem is that he was always trying to Klingon to power
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/

    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    You have WW2 in the wrong column. That was a coalition government for much ofd the war, and Labour was in power when victory was finally won.
    The war in Europe was won by Churchill’s government… but if Labour wants the use of nuclear weapons on their ticket…

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred under Labour.

    You're welcome.
    Democratic Party surely ...
    Under the terms of the agreement that founded the Manhattan project the US had to consult the U.K. before dropping the bombs*. Which PM said that was all ticketyboo?

    *Still in force, IIRC
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Although Rishi Sunak is justly proud of becoming Britain’s first prime minister of Indian origin, he has never openly discussed the extraordinary history of his paternal grandfather.

    The Times has pieced together the background of Ram Dass Sunak and can reveal that he was two years old when his Punjabi town was attacked by British colonial forces, leaving at least nine dead and 27 injured.

    Ram Dass was born in 1917, two years before police, soldiers and pilots carried out a two-day massacre against unarmed Indian civilians in his home town of Gujranwala.

    Three aircraft sent from a Royal Air Force base in Lahore were used to drop bombs and machinegun unarmed civilians, including young children, at the Khalsa High School Boarding House, Gujranwala town centre and nearby villages. It is understood that the family, including the prime minister, had no idea about their grandfather’s roots.

    Video of the Sunak family home, abandoned after Partition in 1947 and now derelict, is accessible online and the house is only a short distance from the town centre and the school that came under fire.

    Surviving records confirm that ten bombs and 1,000 rounds of machinegun fire were directed at the Indian targets. One bomb was dropped deliberately on the school.

    During the atrocities on April 14 and 15, 1919, police, army and air force units were ordered to tackle civilian protesters responding to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in nearby Amritsar.

    The Amritsar atrocity, highlighted in the 1982 film Gandhi, is well documented. Less attention was paid to the terrified families of Gujranwala, although their sufferings were noted six months later by the government-sponsored Hunter Committee that was eventually set up to investigate the disturbances in Punjab and other provinces.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-grandfather-background-family-history-v9tr0p7w2

    The UK government really should pay reparations to the families/descendants of people who were ruled by the British Empire.

    HMRC knows my bank details.

    Scotland should be first in line given we are the last colony and have had it for the longest time.
    How is Scotland the LAST colony? (I mean, it’s obviously not even a colony, but let’s no go there.)
    I was under the impression all other colonies had gained their freedom.
    It depends what you mean by a colony, but the UN list of non-self governing territories under UK rule is…

    Gibraltar
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falkland Islands
    Montserrat
    Saint Helena
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Pitcairn

    I’m surprised you were able to forget the existence of several of these!

    If you’re including Scotland as a “colony”, then one would probably want to add Northern Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and maybe Cumbria. Arguably we should count the Orkneys and Shetlands separately too.
    Anguilla welcomed a British invasion in 1969 because they didn't want to have anything to do with St Kitts and Nevis whom they'd be lumped together with.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17509999.anguilla-farcical-british-invasion-everyone-forgets/
    Labour’s military track record: The Bay of Piglets (Anguilla), Afghanistan, Iraq 2,

    Tories: WWII, Korean War, Falklands. Iraq 1

    Hmmh…
    Couple of further amendments:

    Labour: Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, and avoiding Vietnam (Harold Wilson)

    Tories: Suez, Libya
    Borneo, not sure whom to credit that to. Iceland.

    And of course NI for both lots.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Manhattan Project for AI safety.

    https://twitter.com/hamandcheese/status/1655663839503941633?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    (Or an Apollo, or a CERN).

    Unlike energy there's no general rule of conservation of 'intelligence' so what we need to do is create an AI that makes a better AI (That can itself improve ...) and give it lots of computing power.
    Iteratively it should solve the world's problems ;)
    Tony Stark is on the phone. He's a bit indistinct but he said the word "Ultron"... 😀
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
    Not just the low paid.

    It dawned on me recently that there could be an entire generation who cannot retire because they have rents to pay because they were unable to get on the housing ladder.
    I used to pay that one person's wealth didn't cause another person's poverty. The nature of economic growth meant an expanding pie meant more to go round, even if unequal slices.

    But in the last ten years I have realised that is not always true. Because some things (housing near big cities, quality higher education, healthcare) are not easily to increase the supply of, that means that competition for these things gets more fierce. In an increasingly unequal society, the super rich will bid up the price more and more, pushing the upper middle class out to the next tier, who bid the price up above the middle class and so on. The poor have been left excluded and that is now extending to the lower middle class too. We need more redistribution.

    Of course, the other part of this is that redistribution is easier with more rich people and fewer poor people. That has implications for immigration.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
    Not just the low paid.

    It dawned on me recently that there could be an entire generation who cannot retire because they have rents to pay because they were unable to get on the housing ladder.
    I’ve been calling that out for a while.

    U.K. pensions are largely based around having free (or nearly free) accommodation on retirement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know what PBers of all political stripes think of this poll finding.

    "One in four Canadians supports euthanasia on grounds of poverty"

    https://unherd.com/thepost/1-in-4-canadians-supports-euthanasia-on-grounds-of-poverty/

    Not sure about Canada but being poor here has become increasingly shit.

    Low end Jobs are pretty shit with ever reducing benefits. Was talking to a guy who's worked for Morrisons for 15 years. The slow erosion of relative pay (no extras for holidays, no pay for breaks etc), working conditions and declining staffing levels has made the basic jobs unpleasant.
    Not just the low paid.

    It dawned on me recently that there could be an entire generation who cannot retire because they have rents to pay because they were unable to get on the housing ladder.
    I used to pay that one person's wealth didn't cause another person's poverty. The nature of economic growth meant an expanding pie meant more to go round, even if unequal slices.

    But in the last ten years I have realised that is not always true. Because some things (housing near big cities, quality higher education, healthcare) are not easily to increase the supply of, that means that competition for these things gets more fierce. In an increasingly unequal society, the super rich will bid up the price more and more, pushing the upper middle class out to the next tier, who bid the price up above the middle class and so on. The poor have been left excluded and that is now extending to the lower middle class too. We need more redistribution.

    Of course, the other part of this is that redistribution is easier with more rich people and fewer poor people. That has implications for immigration.
    It is quite trivial to increase the supply of housing. We have chosen not to.

    Increasing the supply of higher education is perfectly possible.

    Likewise healthcare.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    The Scottish Nasty Party really does plumb the depths. I guess he knew there was a good chance that if SNP expelled him he could expect a good chance of standing for Alba:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/snp-accused-of-turning-a-blind-eye-as-sex-pest-mp-says-he-wants-to-defend-seat/ar-AA1aTZYi?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=e169e993231d459e95d75267c5746e31&ei=17

    To balance things out, a Twitter thread by a Scottish Lib Dem, making certain allegations:

    https://twitter.com/EmmaWalkerCEO/status/1655481776964268032
This discussion has been closed.