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This looks worrying for Number 10 and the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...

    For new UK anthem, and in nod to the diversity of the Union, allow me to suggest . . .

    "Lloyd George Knew My Father, Father Knew Lloyd George!"

    My other, more serious nominations:

    "Ferry Cross the Mersey" and "To Sir, With Love"

    I still prefer Billy Connolly's suggestion; the Archers theme tune.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited May 2023

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    See, Foxy and CR are both Rotten with patriotism!
    Are you saying there's No Future?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited May 2023
    Vanilla!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2 it is remarkably well preserved.

    There is a melancholy of post imperial decline about its palaces and churches, beautifully described by Stefan Zweig in his "The World of Yesterday".
    I thought Vienna was heavily damaged in the battle to take it in April 1945 - not as devastated as Berlin perhaps.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2
    Vienna did get severely damaged by the Soviets before and during their capture of the city in April 1945.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    edited May 2023
    Is someone proposing Ultravox Vienna as the new national anthem? Wires might be crossed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    See, Foxy and CR are both Rotten with patriotism!
    Are you saying there's No Future?
    The opposite!

    Broad, sunlight uplands where together can royally frolic, in amity if not harmony, the Wack & the Woke.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited May 2023
    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2 it is remarkably well preserved.

    There is a melancholy of post imperial decline about its palaces and churches, beautifully described by Stefan Zweig in his "The World of Yesterday".
    I thought Vienna was heavily damaged in the battle to take it in April 1945 - not as devastated as Berlin perhaps.
    Perhaps so, but they rebuilt well.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Well as leftwingers like you are generally embarassed about being British anyway, except in terms of the NHS, why should we care that you feel the same about our monarchy?
    The USA is a left-wing country?
    The only thing most leftwingers like about the USA is it is a republic
    But is the USA a leftwing country (being a republic)?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    @Heathener you normally post at 6am

    Get some rest.

    Go to bed.
    Really? That’s the best you can come up with?

    Try harder.
    Go to bed.
    Once upon a time, the right wingers were all against cancel culture, now you’re all for it.

    Your transitory principles are making the rest of us dizzy…
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    edited May 2023

    ...

    For new UK anthem, and in nod to the diversity of the Union, allow me to suggest . . .

    "Lloyd George Knew My Father, Father Knew Lloyd George!"

    My other, more serious nominations:

    "Ferry Cross the Mersey" and "To Sir, With Love"

    I still prefer Billy Connolly's suggestion; the Archers theme tune.
    Or theme to "The Avengers" (Mrs Peel era)? More international recognition for sure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2
    Vienna did get severely damaged by the Soviets before and during their capture of the city in April 1945.
    As rather brilliantly depicted in The Third Man.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Salmond, who is a member of the King’s Privy Council, told LBC he would have “put a ring of policemen around Edinburgh Castle” were he still first minister to prevent the Stone of Destiny – on which King Charles will sit when he is crowned – from being taken down south.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23495913.alex-salmond-confirms-wont-go-kings-coronation/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    ...

    For new UK anthem, and in nod to the diversity of the Union, allow me to suggest . . .

    "Lloyd George Knew My Father, Father Knew Lloyd George!"

    My other, more serious nominations:

    "Ferry Cross the Mersey" and "To Sir, With Love"

    I still prefer Billy Connolly's suggestion; the Archers theme tune.
    Not the awful current version please!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. Beautiful ,but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but different world.
    I recall Bill Bryson's description essentially being it's the most grand and imperial city possible. Sounds nice for a visit, though I can see the point it might see a little out of place now.
    Budapest cheaper, and nicer. Even infested by Viktor Orban.
    I agree. i visited Budapest in the '90s, on a trip up while living in Greece, and I thought it was one of the most beautiful cities I've ever been to. Those vistas, onto the city, from across those bridges traversing the Danube ! Almost as spectacular as Istanbul.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2 it is remarkably well preserved.

    There is a melancholy of post imperial decline about its palaces and churches, beautifully described by Stefan Zweig in his "The World of Yesterday".
    To be fair to Vienna it was bombed to a fair extent, but nothing like the cities of industrial Germany.

    Indeed it was in decline in every sense from the 1910s until roughly the 1990s - a record that is hard to beat in the region. Population, economy, the lot. Then came the nineties, neoliberalism, EU membership and mass migration from the Balkans. Result: a provincial town in imperial clothes forced to modernise at speed. The famous Vienna social housing miracle was largely a function of population collapse; housing a growing population has meant low rents for the older generation and the better-connected kids of the old Viennese, and the standard Western high-rent outcome for everyone else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    @Heathener you normally post at 6am

    Get some rest.

    Go to bed.
    Really? That’s the best you can come up with?

    Try harder.
    Go to bed.
    Once upon a time, the right wingers were all against cancel culture, now you’re all for it.

    Your transitory principles are making the rest of us dizzy…
    Telling other people what to do is a fairly consistent principle for them, I think ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    ...

    For new UK anthem, and in nod to the diversity of the Union, allow me to suggest . . .

    "Lloyd George Knew My Father, Father Knew Lloyd George!"

    My other, more serious nominations:

    "Ferry Cross the Mersey" and "To Sir, With Love"

    I still prefer Billy Connolly's suggestion; the Archers theme tune.
    Or theme to "The Avengers" (Mrs Peel era)? More international recognition for sure.
    On that theme, Monty Norman's James Bond score?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is someone proposing Ultravox Vienna as the new national anthem? Wires might be crossed.

    This means nothing to me.
    I've No Regrets - perhaps I'll be Dancing With Tears In My Eyes on Saturday and next week everything will just Fade to Grey.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.

    Dreamt up actually to represent Britain as its "entry" in the first ever global satellite link-up, and as a result in the end probably the peak of Britain's global cultural influence for the last 60 years.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Edinburgh Festival fireworks to end after 40 years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65399515
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Switching to Land of Hope and Glory would probably be a smart move for the monarchy. Infinitely better tune and easy to sing loudly (which is basically synonymous with patrioticly and proudly).

    God save the King on the other hand sounds like a dirge, and doesn't exactly speak to an increasingly unreligious population.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    For the moment. Too early to tell IF more than momentary.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Salmond, who is a member of the King’s Privy Council, told LBC he would have “put a ring of policemen around Edinburgh Castle” were he still first minister to prevent the Stone of Destiny – on which King Charles will sit when he is crowned – from being taken down south.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23495913.alex-salmond-confirms-wont-go-kings-coronation/

    Stole the idea from Wings.
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.

    Sadly we need a lot more than just love to fix our nation's problems.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update

    Has the Tory comeback reached the Teat Of Cessation?


  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    kle4 said:

    Salmond, who is a member of the King’s Privy Council, told LBC he would have “put a ring of policemen around Edinburgh Castle” were he still first minister to prevent the Stone of Destiny – on which King Charles will sit when he is crowned – from being taken down south.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23495913.alex-salmond-confirms-wont-go-kings-coronation/

    Stole the idea from Wings.
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.

    Sadly we need a lot more than just love to fix our nation's problems.
    There's nothing you can do that can't be done
    Nothing you can sing that can't be sung
    Nothing you can say, but you can learn how to play the game
    It's easy

    Nothing you can make that can't be made
    No one you can save that can't be saved
    Nothing you can do, but you can learn how to be you in time
    It's easy
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    edited May 2023
    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update

    Has the Tory comeback reached the Teat Of Cessation?


    Ka-boob!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.

    Apparently the last Prime Minister had the same idea before she fell, but wanted a minor tweak. All you need is Truss.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2
    Vienna did get severely damaged by the Soviets before and during their capture of the city in April 1945.
    As rather brilliantly depicted in The Third Man.
    Which is a much better movie than Citizen Kane.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited May 2023

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs…

    And whatever else Case might be, he’s pretty dumb.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Obviously a false flag attack.

    Controlled explosion and man arrested outside Buckingham Palace after throwing suspected shotgun cartridges into palace grounds, say police

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65464885

    Harry's back causing more trouble?
    Say what you like about the police, it's very brave of them to arrest a controlled explosion.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Foxy said:

    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update

    Has the Tory comeback reached the Teat Of Cessation?


    Thanks for keeping us abreast of the latest movements.
    And to think, all the lesser psephologists - Rawlings, Thrasher, Professor Curtis - first notice from the graph, are the eyes. 🙄
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    edited May 2023
    FPT

    Just working out a fantasy "do fuck all for the rest of my life" strategy:

    (1) Buy a 2 or 3 bed semi/flat in Sunderland (or similar) for £100k, cash. No mortgage. Most who cash out down South in their early 40s can probably do this.
    (2) Core expenses council tax/water/gas/electricity/broadband/TV licence etc. £450 pcm?
    (3) Transport/fuel - let's say £150 pcm
    (4) Food, drink, purchases and "fun" say £400 pcm

    Basically, if you can derive £1,000pcm+ and you're mortgage free you can do whatever you like for the rest of your life, I think.

    You'd probably need £400-450k of investments to draw on to generate it. Or you could do 'any' min wage job 4 days a week.

    But, you do have to live in Sunderland. And it's not like you can go on adventure holidays.

    Sunderland is by no means the cheapest place to live in the north-east. Somewhere like Easington probably would be. You could buy a 4 bedroom detached house there for the same price as a one bedroom flat in London.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited May 2023

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Very foolish of the government to be making an issue out of this. It's well known to advertisers that generic advertising disproportionately helps the market leader. When it comes to sleazy behaviour the Tories are not only market leaders they are setting standards previously unknown.

    The golden age for own goals

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited May 2023

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
    The Telegraph has banged Starmer to rights. Appointing Gray they claim is proof of Sir Softie's poor judgement. Poor judgement? Is this the same Daily Telegraph that used to be the Boris Johnson fanzine?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Looks like the weather is going to be rubbish on Saturday for the Coronation which, perversely, will probably increase viewer numbers as people will be stuck inside. I’ll be engaged in fixing stuff around the house but in the absence of any other option might even stick it on the telly until the football comes on at noon.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Scott_xP said:

    Edinburgh Festival fireworks to end after 40 years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65399515

    If they need a sponsor fine, but wouldn't a 'large scale event to replace the fireworks' also need a sponsor? Bit strange. Whiff of woke? Are fireworks alledged to have been involved in the transatlantic slave trade?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    edited May 2023
    In other news, had a ride today on the UK's newest "railway", the Luton Airport DART, which opened on 27th March. It's really a people-mover operated by a pulley system, almost exactly like that at Birmingham Airport, but I thought why not.






  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    In other news, had a ride today on the UK's newest "railway", the Luton Airport DART, which opened on 27th March. It's really a people-mover operated by a pulley system, almost exactly like that at Birmingham Airport, but I thought why not.






    I miss bhx’s MAGLEV. A happy memory from my youth. Well, when it was working. Out of action, most of the time, iirc.

    Did you ever ride it?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Suspect that the government stopped being embarrassable some time ago. The interesting thing is that, after all the hype (as recently as The World at One), the government stepped back. I bet Boris wouldn't have done that, on a "go big or go home" basis. One of Rishi's challenges is that he's seen how BoJo operated, seems to think that is what Prime Ministers do... but he's not quite evil enough.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
    The times front page article, for you to decide for yourself what their take is


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    ping said:

    In other news, had a ride today on the UK's newest "railway", the Luton Airport DART, which opened on 27th March. It's really a people-mover operated by a pulley system, almost exactly like that at Birmingham Airport, but I thought why not.






    I miss Bhx’s MAGLEV. A happy memory from my youth. Well, when it was working. Out of action, most of the time, iirc.

    Did you ever ride it?
    No, I first visited BHX in 2014, long after it went.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Jonathan said:

    Personally I’ve always had a soft spot for the Beatles “all you need is love” as the national anthem, especially as it rips off the French anthem at the start. You can belt it out. The lyrics are spot on.

    Getting Away With It by Electronic would be a great national anthem.

    God Save the Queen/King/Prince Harry is rubbish.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    In other news, had a ride today on the UK's newest "railway", the Luton Airport DART, which opened on 27th March. It's really a people-mover operated by a pulley system, almost exactly like that at Birmingham Airport, but I thought why not.






    Looks interesting. A shame the Birmingham one isn't the world's only MagLev these days, like it was from 1984 to 1995.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update

    Has the Tory comeback reached the Teat Of Cessation?


    Increasing obvious that when it comes to this particular graph, you're REALLY milking it.

    "Mooooooooooooo(n)!" indeed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    I think simpler than that. They have no evidence of Sue Gray breaking the civil service code. Publishing any suggestion she did could land them in legal hot water and she is the kind of person who would fight them all the way.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Nigelb said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs…

    And whatever else Case might be, he’s pretty dumb.
    Case closed on Graygate
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Perhaps a more fitting Royal - but not National - Anthem would be

    "I'm 'Enery the Eighth, I Am!"
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Scott_xP said:

    Edinburgh Festival fireworks to end after 40 years

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65399515

    If they need a sponsor fine, but wouldn't a 'large scale event to replace the fireworks' also need a sponsor? Bit strange. Whiff of woke? Are fireworks alledged to have been involved in the transatlantic slave trade?
    Fireworks are eye watering.expensive for an extended display.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Suspect that the government stopped being embarrassable some time ago. The interesting thing is that, after all the hype (as recently as The World at One), the government stepped back. I bet Boris wouldn't have done that, on a "go big or go home" basis. One of Rishi's challenges is that he's seen how BoJo operated, seems to think that is what Prime Ministers do... but he's not quite evil enough.
    I think that’s rather harsh. 😠 I think it’s more like the Times assessment, the Tory Party push upon the levers of the civil service was “flimsy and lacked evidence” so it’s actually quite sensible to stop pushing those levers when warned of “significant legal issues” - not a lack of evilness.

    To push it further and lose, just hands over a bigger win doesn’t it?

    If TSE was writing a header on this latest development I’m sure he’d use the phrase, despite the promising build up it was “all piss and wind”
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Andy_JS said:

    In other news, had a ride today on the UK's newest "railway", the Luton Airport DART, which opened on 27th March. It's really a people-mover operated by a pulley system, almost exactly like that at Birmingham Airport, but I thought why not.






    Looks interesting. A shame the Birmingham one isn't the world's only MagLev these days, like it was from 1984 to 1995.
    First thought when I saw pics, without noticing poster, was this - Is BlancheL doing a "Rosie Ruiz"?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Nigelb said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs…

    And whatever else Case might be, he’s pretty dumb.
    Case closed on Graygate
    Next it will be case closed on Case.

    But that has to be after the locals because it will fill the media with partygate pictures.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    edited May 2023

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :open_mouth:
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    ON TOPIC

    mamim-milla! Sound the Boob Alert! Breaking News >>> Tits! coming up a big update

    Has the Tory comeback reached the Teat Of Cessation?


    Increasing obvious that when it comes to this particular graph, you're REALLY milking it.

    "Mooooooooooooo(n)!" indeed.
    Not your best. You are struggling for form this week Shants, aren’t you.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Gotta love the Pedro.


  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    I assumed Northern Al had thrown in Donkeygate as a deliberate red herring to see if anyone would spot the imposter. But hilariously it does appear to have been a thing at some stage.

    The story goes that Keir Starmer’s mum owns a donkey sanctuary that doesn’t have planning permission. The law is an ass etc etc
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609

    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
    Needed somewhere to send Corbyn et al, I guess?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
    It was his mum’s donkeys according to the ‘story’ I read. I guess the truth might never come out…
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Just working out a fantasy "do fuck all for the rest of my life" strategy:

    (1) Buy a 2 or 3 bed semi/flat in Sunderland (or similar) for £100k, cash. No mortgage. Most who cash out down South in their early 40s can probably do this.
    (2) Core expenses council tax/water/gas/electricity/broadband/TV licence etc. £450 pcm?
    (3) Transport/fuel - let's say £150 pcm
    (4) Food, drink, purchases and "fun" say £400 pcm

    Basically, if you can derive £1,000pcm+ and you're mortgage free you can do whatever you like for the rest of your life, I think.

    You'd probably need £400-450k of investments to draw on to generate it. Or you could do 'any' min wage job 4 days a week.

    But, you do have to live in Sunderland. And it's not like you can go on adventure holidays.

    Sunderland is by no means the cheapest place to live in the north-east. Somewhere like Easington probably would be. You could buy a 4 bedroom detached house there for the same price as a one bedroom flat in London.
    But think of the medical bills
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
    It was his mum’s donkeys according to the ‘story’ I read. I guess the truth might never come out…
    I am sure you are right Anabob, on basis I made mine up. Though my made up one was still a more credible line of attack than the real one 😆
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    edited May 2023
    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2023
    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is someone proposing Ultravox Vienna as the new national anthem? Wires might be crossed.

    This means nothing to me.
    I've No Regrets - perhaps I'll be Dancing With Tears In My Eyes on Saturday and next week everything will just Fade to Grey.
    I would have bet cash money that Midge Ure had left Visage for Ultravox when "Fade to Gray" came out in 1980. But according to Wiki you are right. Well done you.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    Gotta love the Pedro.


    He appears to be well equipped to cope in the event of an errant bull entering the square.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
    It was his mum’s donkeys according to the ‘story’ I read. I guess the truth might never come out…
    I am sure you are right Anabob, on basis I made mine up. Though my made up one was still a more credible line of attack than the real one 😆
    Ah!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited May 2023

    Selebian said:

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    It's alleged that starmer left a gate open on a walk in the countryside? :openmouth:
    Was it not the dodgy dealing on buying land for his wife’s donkey collection? He had some sort of parliamentary instrument that allowed him to purchase the land for 1p.
    It was his mum’s donkeys according to the ‘story’ I read. I guess the truth might never come out…
    I am sure you are right Anabob, on basis I made mine up. Though my made up one was still a more credible line of attack than the real one 😆
    Ah!
    This is the Daily Mails take on the same thing.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11550035/Sir-Keir-Starmer-rakes-selling-green-belt-land-400k.html
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    I'm trying to work out something in my head.

    Who is wronger, republicans or Roger?

    It's a tough one.

    Welease Woger!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
    No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%, especially as RefUK aren't standing in most council wards.

    The latest Yougov has the LDs losing 37% of their 2019 voters to Starmer Labour and 9% of their 2019 voters to Sunak's Tories.

    Only 4% of 2019 Labour voters and 4% of 2019 Tory voters are voting LD now though
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/xgvcs0jjcc/TheTimes_VI_AdHoc_230419_W_.pdf
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Makes sense, I heard a US President say essentially the same thing once. Well, a million times really.

    There you have it. Interior Minister, who apparently speaks very often these days to fill Erdoğan's absence, says May 14 Elections ''is a coup attempt by the West''
    *
    if Erdoğan loses the elections you know it is the coup.

    https://twitter.com/WashingtonPoint/status/1651897102509694976?cxt=HHwWgICzibTq2-wtAAAA
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2023
    2024 National Republican Primary (Shift since 4/17):

    Trump 57% (+4)
    DeSantis 22% (-6)
    Pence 6% (+1)
    Haley 4% (-1)
    Cruz 3% (+1)
    Cheney 2%
    Ramaswamy 1% (+1)
    T. Scott 1% (-1)
    Christie 0%
    Pompeo 0% (-1)
    .
    Head-2-Head:
    Trump 60% (+3)
    DeSantis 31% (-4)

    .
    @premisedata
    , 583 RV
    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1653538926752145414?s=20
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    WTF was Donkeygate? I don’t remember that one.
    Didn’t Starmer inherit a field or something? I believe there was a donkey sanctuary involved somehow!

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
    No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%, especially as RefUK aren't standing in most council wards.

    The latest Yougov has the LDs losing 37% of their 2019 voters to Starmer Labour and 9% of their 2019 voters to Sunak's Tories.

    Only 4% of 2019 Labour voters and 4% of 2019 Tory voters are voting LD now though
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/xgvcs0jjcc/TheTimes_VI_AdHoc_230419_W_.pdf
    “No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%” Why not? Unprecedented cost of living crisis, unprecedented 3rd PM in same parliament, why not unprecedented outcome in local polls due to hard to get your vote out? Maybe you are counting on too many reform voters to make the effort to vote Tory this week? My prediction is 23% Tory PNE not on great switching to other parties, but unenthusiastic Tory voters this week.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
    No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%, especially as RefUK aren't standing in most council wards.

    The latest Yougov has the LDs losing 37% of their 2019 voters to Starmer Labour and 9% of their 2019 voters to Sunak's Tories.

    Only 4% of 2019 Labour voters and 4% of 2019 Tory voters are voting LD now though
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/xgvcs0jjcc/TheTimes_VI_AdHoc_230419_W_.pdf
    “No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%” Why not? Unprecedented cost of living crisis, unprecedented 3rd PM in same parliament, why not unprecedented outcome in local polls due to hard to get your vote out? Maybe you are counting on too many reform voters to make the effort to vote Tory this week? My prediction is 23% Tory PNE not on great switching to other parties, but unenthusiastic Tory voters this week.
    On the latest Yougov the Tory voteshare alone is 28%, the Tory + RefUK voteshare is 35%
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
    I'm encountering a few LD voters who mutter that the party "isn't doing much" and Labour might be better in principle, but the tactical argument masks that. Overall I expect them to broadly stand still, but to make some blue wall gains.

    They do need a compelling theme, though. Starmer gets by with "We'll replace the Tories in Government", but as a third party they need to stand out. Embracing Rejoin is the obvious one - support for it on paper is three times their size, and nobody else is going anywhere near it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    This Spectator article is probably going to cause some annoyance.

    "Joanna Williams
    Where was Stella Creasy when other mums were being harassed?" (£)

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/where-was-stella-creasy-when-other-mums-were-being-harassed-for-their-views/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    In terms of the council elections I expect the big story to be Lib Dem gains in the so called Blue Wall . Greens to do well and the Tories regardless of their desperate spin to do poorly . Labour to do okay but nothing earth shattering.

    The reverse, I expect the LD advance to fall flat in the blue wall, indeed on current polls the Tories under Rishi are making net gains from the LDs relative to 2019 and the LDs are also leaking heavily to Labour. Labour however I expect to make significant gains from the Tories, especially in the redwall and Leave areas relative to 2019
    I expect a PNE of Labour 40% Con 23% Lib Dem 17% and Tory losses of 814.

    The Lib Dem’s are not leaking heavily to Labour, in National polls they are going up, almost a surge, and this is at Labours expense, and in the locals the Lib Dem share and seats will be boosted by Labour votes.

    I’ve got a busy couple of days, but will be back Thursday and Friday for the result and how my prediction is holding up.
    No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%, especially as RefUK aren't standing in most council wards.

    The latest Yougov has the LDs losing 37% of their 2019 voters to Starmer Labour and 9% of their 2019 voters to Sunak's Tories.

    Only 4% of 2019 Labour voters and 4% of 2019 Tory voters are voting LD now though
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/xgvcs0jjcc/TheTimes_VI_AdHoc_230419_W_.pdf
    “No way will the Tories fall as low as 23%” Why not? Unprecedented cost of living crisis, unprecedented 3rd PM in same parliament, why not unprecedented outcome in local polls due to hard to get your vote out? Maybe you are counting on too many reform voters to make the effort to vote Tory this week? My prediction is 23% Tory PNE not on great switching to other parties, but unenthusiastic Tory voters this week.
    If a Tory supporter was predicting 23% I might take it seriously, but it's too convenient for non-Tories to be forecasting such a low number for them. But I'll acknowledge my mistake if they do get 23% on Friday.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
    The Telegraph has banged Starmer to rights. Appointing Gray they claim is proof of Sir Softie's poor judgement. Poor judgement? Is this the same Daily Telegraph that used to be the Boris Johnson fanzine?
    The last couple of months has seen the Telegraph revert to full Tory fanboy mode. Not sure why: same old editor sfaict; same old proprietors.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited May 2023
    37-second video of GB News, Jacob Rees-Mogg and a controlled explosion at the Palace.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIA4ogChCcA
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
    The Telegraph has banged Starmer to rights. Appointing Gray they claim is proof of Sir Softie's poor judgement. Poor judgement? Is this the same Daily Telegraph that used to be the Boris Johnson fanzine?
    The last couple of months has seen the Telegraph revert to full Tory fanboy mode. Not sure why: same old editor sfaict; same old proprietors.
    Blue fear of Keir is rampant there as here.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited May 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    This Spectator article is probably going to cause some annoyance.

    "Joanna Williams
    Where was Stella Creasy when other mums were being harassed?" (£)

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/where-was-stella-creasy-when-other-mums-were-being-harassed-for-their-views/

    From that article it looks as if it was Stella Creasy who went to the police complaining about the trolls, rather than vice versa. There are important questions about campaigning, free speech and hate speech but it's not clear the Spectator raises them. The article reads as if it was written, or at least planned, some time back and kept till Creasy provided the hook on which to hang it, but I'm not sure it really fits.

    Nor do I see the video as "toe-curling" like some of Matt Hancock's, as the article suggests. It is witty and, to my amateur eye at least, well edited. Stella Creasy might once have been a contender for Labour leadership but she apparently chose a different course and sits on the back benches despite being more engaging than some of Labour's shadow ministers.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited May 2023

    On SueGrayGate, despite Dan Hodges' and others' tumescence about the imminent publication of the government inquiry into Starmer poaching her, it's been pulled - as we know. It looks to me, though, as if they've backed off due to the formidable Gray refusing to respond to the inquiry and, I suspect, threatening Case and whoever else with lawyers. Whatever else Gray may be, she's pretty smart. The inquiry had no formal status and was outside the normal process for civil servants getting new jobs.

    Just a hunch. But why else would they back off when they'd trailed the dynamite findings to their media friends as another nail in Starmer's coffin (along with currygate, donkeygate and Savilegate)? It's all a bit embarrassing for the government/Tory Party.

    Just a hunch as you said.

    It looks like, from the front of tomorrows papers, the Conservative Party wanted to go further but Simon Case has blocked them. A decision has been made of the report findings, but not released.

    nothing has been released today to prove “Gray in PartyGate team as Starmer Talks Began” headline in yesterdays telegraph which now looks exaggerated even libellous and leaves the paper open to being sued - would that be what both the Tories and the telegraph want, or leave the paper angry the Tories let them down with a poor briefing?

    If there is nothing that can support that newspaper headline, there’s no grounds for an unusually long period of gardening leave. Sue will be working for Starmer before the end of the year, having been seen to have won this tussle.

    Simon Case battle with the politicians about what they could and couldn’t say today, does seem to be the only interesting focus left.

    IMO Case has been packing for weeks anyway, his departure isn’t particularly because he took hard civil service line against Tories on Graygate.
    The Telegraph has banged Starmer to rights. Appointing Gray they claim is proof of Sir Softie's poor judgement. Poor judgement? Is this the same Daily Telegraph that used to be the Boris Johnson fanzine?
    The last couple of months has seen the Telegraph revert to full Tory fanboy mode. Not sure why: same old editor sfaict; same old proprietors.
    Blue fear of Keir is rampant there as here.
    I salute your ability to maintain a clear-eyed view of British politics from several time zones away.

    An inspiration to the rest of us!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    New thread.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    New thread.

    Already?
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