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This looks worrying for Number 10 and the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    Whatever way you cut it this Saturday is very important for KCIII.

    He needs to own it and conduct himself with munificence, dignity and confidence on the world stage, because the world will be watching.

    Seal the deal, Charlie.

    I’m going to send him a present for the coronation.

    A fountain pen.
    A thoughtful gift

    Pensive, in fact

    😀

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Imagine Prince Harry as King :lol:
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    You can be a constitutional monarchist without giving a hoot for the royal family
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    Obviously a false flag attack.

    Controlled explosion and man arrested outside Buckingham Palace after throwing suspected shotgun cartridges into palace grounds, say police

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65464885

    Harry's back causing more trouble?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    In rather important but under-appreciated news:

    The other day, an empty oil tanker, the Pablo, exploded off the Malaysian coast. Because it was empty, the risks of pollution are relatively minor (though the damage to the ship was very extensive).The Pablo is part of the dark fleet, and was probably involved with ship-to-ship transfers for oil deliveries to China.

    Whether that oil came from Venezuela, Iran, or Russia, it highlights this trade, the sanctions-busting that is going on, and the generally lawlessness of much international shipping.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrkaCttQ7OE

    Very curious that someone was smoking while refuelling it

    Lucky Strike!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    .

    Obviously a false flag attack.

    Controlled explosion and man arrested outside Buckingham Palace after throwing suspected shotgun cartridges into palace grounds, say police

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65464885

    Seems a very odd thing to do.
    Maybe he got them confused with fountain pen cartridges ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    House of Lords says "hello!" :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Imagine Prince Harry as King :lol:

    Why not? He hasn't really done anything too terrible. He's just pissed off the RedTops.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    If you’re suggesting the situation would be improved were they a constitutional monarchy, I’m not persuaded.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    viewcode said:

    Whatever way you cut it this Saturday is very important for KCIII.

    He needs to own it and conduct himself with munificence, dignity and confidence on the world stage, because the world will be watching.

    Seal the deal, Charlie.

    I’m going to send him a present for the coronation.

    A fountain pen.
    A thoughtful gift

    Pensive, in fact

    😀

    A gift to get Charles a little Cross.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    How have I not read this ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mummy!
    The Mummy! A Tale of the Twenty-Second Century is an 1827 three-volume novel written by Jane Webb (later Jane C. Loudon). It concerns the Egyptian mummy of Cheops, who is brought back to life in the year 2126. The novel describes a future filled with advanced technology,[1] and was the first English-language story to feature a reanimated mummy...

    Will put that right on my fortuitously free Monday.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited May 2023

    Chelsea might be becoming both a verb and a noun. I am having a Chelsea day. I have Chelsea’d that right up etc.

    https://twitter.com/legsidelizzy/status/1653484598263775233?s=46

    I am sick of hearing.about Chelsea success. Let them spend billions and fail. The schadenfreude is and will be almost equal to that of seeing the SNP being brought to.book.
    At last, one of your visceral dislikes I share. We can bond over Chelsphobia.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Willamette Week - Oregon Secretary of State Shemia Fagan Resigns
    “The best thing I can do to support the people of this agency is to resign.”

    https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/05/02/oregon-secretary-of-state-shemia-fagan-resigns/

    SSI - Not the first politico, whose fool head the Willamette Week has put on the chopping block.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Sean_F said:

    Whatever way you cut it this Saturday is very important for KCIII.

    He needs to own it and conduct himself with munificence, dignity and confidence on the world stage, because the world will be watching.

    Seal the deal, Charlie.

    Most of the world are republics.
    In theory. Many are monarchies in fact.
    Only North Korea and Cuba.
    And Equatorial Guinea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    So we reduce our Head of State to a bake-off vote, and someone no-one would even know of remember whilst flushing 1,500 years of history down the drain.

    What a stupid idea.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2023

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    If the monarchists are right then King Charles III would win an election for head of state.

    What are the monarchists are afraid of?
    Ah, now you've reverted again after a good pen gag.

    I for one don't think Charles would win an election for Head of State, nor any of the royals. Once you introduce the element of election to it there'd be no real reason too. I'd not bother at that point. Some do think he or another royal would win, but I think they are wrong on that.

    But seriously though, do you actually think 'Monachists, who don't support electing a head of state, are afraid to have an election for the head of state' is a cutting point? Because it really is not, it doesn't even make any sense - why would supporters of any position be tested to prove that by doing the opposite of what they support?

    It'd make more sense to say why are they afraid of a referendum on the death of a monarch in order to confirm people do indeed still want to continue with the system - it'd be confirmatory, and they'd be confident of winning, but it also would still genuinely test public sentiment and apathy.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    stodge said:

    The swing in the R&W "Red Wall" polling from Conservative to Labour is 13.5% so pretty close to the England-wide 14% suggesting a uniformity across constituencies which we may or may not see played out on Thursday.

    Looking at last night's numbers and taking out London, Wales and Scotland, I get Labour 46%, Conservatives 29%, Liberal Democrats 11%, Reform 8%, Green 5%.

    That will include other areas with no votes such as Cornwall and is only indicative - nothing more.

    We may be a lot wiser on Friday but somehow I doubt it.

    I hope this locals election doesn’t distract too much from the coronation build up.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    So we reduce our Head of State to a bake-off vote, and someone no-one would even know of remember whilst flushing 1,500 years of history down the drain.

    What a stupid idea.
    France has a similar historic longevity. Italy even longer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2023

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    So we reduce our Head of State to a bake-off vote, and someone no-one would even know of remember whilst flushing 1,500 years of history down the drain.

    What a stupid idea.
    France has a similar historic longevity. Italy even longer.
    France I'll grant you, on one way or another. Italy seems highly quesitonable given its fracturing for very long periods.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Imagine Prince Harry as King :lol:

    Why not? He hasn't really done anything too terrible. He's just pissed off the RedTops.
    If we had King Harry, I and SSI have composed the Coronation Ode:

    " I weep for Harry's Penis—it is dead!
    Oh, weep for the frost-bitten penis! though our tears
    Thaw not the frost which binds so dear a head!
    And thou, sad Hour, selected from all years
    To mourn our loss, rouse thy obscure compeers,
    And teach them thine own sorrow, say: "With me
    Died Harry's Penis"; till the Future dares
    Forget the Past, its fate and fame shall be
    An echo and a light unto eternity.

    But, hark! What wonder do these yearning eyes behold
    If only in my own mind's eye! And more reflected in
    The gleaming orbs of a dusky consort from a far-flung
    Sun-kissed strand. Yea, the very squalls and squeals
    Of near-royal brats testify that the Princely knob
    Is fully thawed, newly risen, greatly driven ever forward,
    Onward for Harry, St George and Santa Barbara!”


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Actually LHG has a reasonably nice stately charm to it.

    OTOH, Rule Britannia is the height of pretentiousness.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Nigelb said:

    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376

    Jesus Christ, putting a position ahead of your personal interests is meant to be the whole point of public service.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Nigelb said:

    How have I not read this ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mummy!
    The Mummy! A Tale of the Twenty-Second Century is an 1827 three-volume novel written by Jane Webb (later Jane C. Loudon). It concerns the Egyptian mummy of Cheops, who is brought back to life in the year 2126. The novel describes a future filled with advanced technology,[1] and was the first English-language story to feature a reanimated mummy...

    Will put that right on my fortuitously free Monday.

    The classic Victorian three volume novel!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    It's our equivalent of the Marseiilaise, which you can imagine the legions of Napoloen belting out, as they marched into battle.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    geoffw said:

    You can be a constitutional monarchist without giving a hoot for the royal family

    Yes. Royalist is a better term for the ardent types.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    "these days"? Take it you aren't quite old enough to remember the Warren Court, and accompanying "Impeach Earl Warren" bill-boards? Or the "Impeach Roger Tanney" bonfires?

    OR criticism of John Marshall for legislating from the bench, in overturning Acts of Congress as Marbury v Madison?

    In other words, though this may surprise modern journalists (with attention spans shorter than gnats) nothing new under the Potomoc sun.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    I'm trying to work out something in my head.

    Who is wronger, republicans or Roger?

    It's a tough one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    In rather important but under-appreciated news:

    The other day, an empty oil tanker, the Pablo, exploded off the Malaysian coast. Because it was empty, the risks of pollution are relatively minor (though the damage to the ship was very extensive).The Pablo is part of the dark fleet, and was probably involved with ship-to-ship transfers for oil deliveries to China.

    Whether that oil came from Venezuela, Iran, or Russia, it highlights this trade, the sanctions-busting that is going on, and the generally lawlessness of much international shipping.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrkaCttQ7OE

    Very curious that someone was smoking while refuelling it

    Lucky Strike!
    If you look at some of the pics, it's made a real mess of the ship. I'm surprised it didn't sink.

    https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/2023/05/02/footage-captures-moment-oil-tanker-explodes-off-coast-of-malaysia/
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    It's our equivalent of the Marseiilaise, which you can imagine the legions of Napoloen belting out, as they marched into battle.
    "Terre d'espoir et de gloire!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Indeed, even Labour voters want to retain the monarchy 42% to 38%, as do 65% of LDs. It is not just Tories (even if an overwhelming 81% of Tory voters want to keep the monarchy according to Ashcroft's new poll).

    Indeed the only main party voters who want a republic are SNP voters but even their supporters are only 51% in favour of a republic
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-12034755/Majority-British-republicans-motivated-principle-new-poll-finds.html
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    A

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Actually LHG has a reasonably nice stately charm to it.

    OTOH, Rule Britannia is the height of pretentiousness.
    Nothing better to sing out loud when you plant your flag though 🎶
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    How long will you be doing this? Will it stop after Saturday?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Sean_F said:

    Imagine Prince Harry as King :lol:

    Why not? He hasn't really done anything too terrible. He's just pissed off the RedTops.
    If we had King Harry, I and SSI have composed the Coronation Ode:

    " I weep for Harry's Penis—it is dead!
    Oh, weep for the frost-bitten penis! though our tears
    Thaw not the frost which binds so dear a head!
    And thou, sad Hour, selected from all years
    To mourn our loss, rouse thy obscure compeers,
    And teach them thine own sorrow, say: "With me
    Died Harry's Penis"; till the Future dares
    Forget the Past, its fate and fame shall be
    An echo and a light unto eternity.

    But, hark! What wonder do these yearning eyes behold
    If only in my own mind's eye! And more reflected in
    The gleaming orbs of a dusky consort from a far-flung
    Sun-kissed strand. Yea, the very squalls and squeals
    Of near-royal brats testify that the Princely knob
    Is fully thawed, newly risen, greatly driven ever forward,
    Onward for Harry, St George and Santa Barbara!”


    Nothing will beat Matt Berry:

    https://twitter.com/BenKearns6/status/1613609451063214085/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1613609451063214085&currentTweetUser=BenKearns6
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376

    Jesus Christ, putting a position ahead of your personal interests is meant to be the whole point of public service.
    Please note, that Democrats in Oregon, have just forced Democratic Secretary of State out of office for abject failure to put public service before private gain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    How have I not read this ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mummy!
    The Mummy! A Tale of the Twenty-Second Century is an 1827 three-volume novel written by Jane Webb (later Jane C. Loudon). It concerns the Egyptian mummy of Cheops, who is brought back to life in the year 2126. The novel describes a future filled with advanced technology,[1] and was the first English-language story to feature a reanimated mummy...

    Will put that right on my fortuitously free Monday.

    The classic Victorian three volume novel!
    Sadly the late queen was not crowned until ten years after it was published.
    But yes, an early version of that.

    "Anybody can write a three-volume novel, it merely requires a complete ignorance of both life and literature"
    (Wilde)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Could be political smart, to drag the whole thing out as long as possible?

    Seeing as how it's a load of caterpillar poop anyway, and ultimate ruling likely to reflect that?
    Its amazing. They want to block the SueGray appointment to spite Starmer, and in Case's sake spite Gray.

    Except that if as they now suggest Gray is compromised and therefore the Johnson enquiry (which cleared him...) was a political smear job, then surely Johnson should still be PM?

    And the thing that really upsets civil servants who aren't Simon Case - a one year moratorium on their next job would rather screw up the career prospects of senior civil servants.

    So having got very excited and lined up their client Officially-Not-News channels to provide news entertainment reporting about it, they have to pack up their tents. As going through with it would be far worse than the quick knee-trembler in the lift they were all excited about.
    But I do get the vibe the government haven’t found much probing Suegate, and are backing off a bit. Nothing there for the papers to make a meal of to distract from the big coronation build up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    stodge said:

    The swing in the R&W "Red Wall" polling from Conservative to Labour is 13.5% so pretty close to the England-wide 14% suggesting a uniformity across constituencies which we may or may not see played out on Thursday.

    Looking at last night's numbers and taking out London, Wales and Scotland, I get Labour 46%, Conservatives 29%, Liberal Democrats 11%, Reform 8%, Green 5%.

    That will include other areas with no votes such as Cornwall and is only indicative - nothing more.

    We may be a lot wiser on Friday but somehow I doubt it.

    I hope this locals election doesn’t distract too much from the coronation build up.
    To be honest I have seen more union jacks, Crosses of Saint George and pictures of the King outside houses driving around campaigning than local election posters. Even if the yellow peril are trying their hardest to get their 'demand better!' diamonds up
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange", "Land of Hope and Glory" is never the same after you've seen Ken Russell's "Elgar".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Nigelb said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    If you’re suggesting the situation would be improved were they a constitutional monarchy, I’m not persuaded.
    They are probably harder to get rid of than an annoying King.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Could be political smart, to drag the whole thing out as long as possible?

    Seeing as how it's a load of caterpillar poop anyway, and ultimate ruling likely to reflect that?
    Its amazing. They want to block the SueGray appointment to spite Starmer, and in Case's sake spite Gray.

    Except that if as they now suggest Gray is compromised and therefore the Johnson enquiry (which cleared him...) was a political smear job, then surely Johnson should still be PM?

    And the thing that really upsets civil servants who aren't Simon Case - a one year moratorium on their next job would rather screw up the career prospects of senior civil servants.

    So having got very excited and lined up their client Officially-Not-News channels to provide news entertainment reporting about it, they have to pack up their tents. As going through with it would be far worse than the quick knee-trembler in the lift they were all excited about.
    When I was working with a civil service body, we couldn’t publish something with zero political or policy element because of purdah. Who on Earth thought they could publish something like this during purdah?
    This government are committing murder in purdah.

    Who enforces purdah? Just down to manners and respect of sitting government to rules for fairness and protect our democracy?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    A

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Actually LHG has a reasonably nice stately charm to it.

    OTOH, Rule Britannia is the height of pretentiousness.
    Nothing better to sing out loud when you plant your flag though 🎶
    Rule Shitannia!
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790

    Nigelb said:

    How have I not read this ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mummy!
    The Mummy! A Tale of the Twenty-Second Century is an 1827 three-volume novel written by Jane Webb (later Jane C. Loudon). It concerns the Egyptian mummy of Cheops, who is brought back to life in the year 2126. The novel describes a future filled with advanced technology,[1] and was the first English-language story to feature a reanimated mummy...

    Will put that right on my fortuitously free Monday.

    The classic Victorian three volume novel!
    Three decker, I think?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    So we reduce our Head of State to a bake-off vote, and someone no-one would even know of remember whilst flushing 1,500 years of history down the drain.

    What a stupid idea.
    France has a similar historic longevity. Italy even longer.
    France I'll grant you, on one way or another. Italy seems highly quesitonable given its fracturing for very long periods.
    Yes, many of the apparent "oldest" countries and traditions are very questionable. Royal Britain is 300 years old, a recapitulation of a Brythonic concept that hadn't existed for 1000 years. France was a Viking-Med-Gaulish stew at first over-run by English aristocrats, even if many of them were still at least partially French by ancestry ; plus more than one form of royalist, or at least imperialist restoration - Napoleon, Louis Philippe, Louis Napoleon. Italy was a French-Spanish-Austrian-run patchwork for centuries. Greece lost control of its culture for almost five centuries, and the ancient Byzantine monarchy disappeared.

    Interestingly, I think Germany and Japan had various shades of longer unbroken monarchical history than most, and look how that worked out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Chris said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange".
    Beethoven's 9th!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376

    Jesus Christ, putting a position ahead of your personal interests is meant to be the whole point of public service.
    The idea that one might endanger a friendship by declining an annual bung of around half a million dollars travel benefits is an exceedingly odd one. Or the friendship is.

    Harlan Crow is certainly a very odd man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Chris said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange", "Land of Hope and Glory" is never the same after you've seen Ken Russell's "Elgar".
    And Stuck In The Middle With You after 'Dogs'.

    I can't watch that scene.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    @Heathener you normally post at 6am

    Get some rest.

    Go to bed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    How long will you be doing this? Will it stop after Saturday?
    As long as it annoys you.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    The Conservative Party is a barrier towards right wing policies, rather than an implementer of them. You should be careful what you wish for.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Nigelb said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    If you’re suggesting the situation would be improved were they a constitutional monarchy, I’m not persuaded.
    They are probably harder to get rid of than an annoying King.
    The House of Lords is the ONLY Upper House anywhere in the world that's bigger in membership than its respective Lower House.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Just seen the Deltapoll numbers:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 29% (-1)
    LDEM: 11% (+2)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    REF: 4% (-1)

    Back to a 15-point lead for Labour and the LDs sweeping all before them (to a couple of points).
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    @Heathener you normally post at 6am

    Get some rest.

    Go to bed.
    Really? That’s the best you can come up with?

    Try harder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    The US is governed, in substantial part, by the Supreme Court. Which is, these days, an unelected legislative chamber.
    If you’re suggesting the situation would be improved were they a constitutional monarchy, I’m not persuaded.
    They are probably harder to get rid of than an annoying King.
    Their progeny don’t inherit the seats, though.

    And in the case of Thomas, I think you might be surprised.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,048
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange", "Land of Hope and Glory" is never the same after you've seen Ken Russell's "Elgar".
    And Stuck In The Middle With You after 'Dogs'.

    I can't watch that scene.
    The 'Cats' version isn't too bad:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-nRObY1uFs&ab_channel=QuentinTarantinoFanClub


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    stodge said:

    Just seen the Deltapoll numbers:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 29% (-1)
    LDEM: 11% (+2)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    REF: 4% (-1)

    Back to a 15-point lead for Labour and the LDs sweeping all before them (to a couple of points).

    Broken, sleazy, monarchist Tories on the slide!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Always? Were you around last time? I was and sang it in a choir.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2023
    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    The Conservative Party is a barrier towards right wing policies, rather than an implementer of them. You should be careful what you wish for.
    Yes, the only real replacement for the Tories would be a Farage led rightwing populist party like RefUK.

    Though it would have less reach to the centre than the Tories do so would likely still need the rump Tories to form a government (remember in 2015 Tories and UKIP and DUP combined had 50% of the UK vote, 50.4% with the UUP)
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    The Conservative Party is a barrier towards right wing policies, rather than an implementer of them. You should be careful what you wish for.
    I used to think that. Now I’m not so sure.

    I think it’s bullshit.

    True right wing believers are <25% of voters. They can be safely ignored, under fptp.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Chris said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange".
    Beethoven's 9th!
    Yes, actually quite of a lot of things are not the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange". The William Tell Overture is another.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited May 2023
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    The swing in the R&W "Red Wall" polling from Conservative to Labour is 13.5% so pretty close to the England-wide 14% suggesting a uniformity across constituencies which we may or may not see played out on Thursday.

    Looking at last night's numbers and taking out London, Wales and Scotland, I get Labour 46%, Conservatives 29%, Liberal Democrats 11%, Reform 8%, Green 5%.

    That will include other areas with no votes such as Cornwall and is only indicative - nothing more.

    We may be a lot wiser on Friday but somehow I doubt it.

    I hope this locals election doesn’t distract too much from the coronation build up.
    To be honest I have seen more union jacks, Crosses of Saint George and pictures of the King outside houses driving around campaigning than local election posters. Even if the yellow peril are trying their hardest to get their 'demand better!' diamonds up
    Just consider every Union flag flyer a Conservative voter. Consider all the flag wavers of St George, voters lost to Reform.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    edited May 2023
    I wonder if any surreptitiously republican organists will dare play the arrangement of God Save The King from Common Praise (the 2000 edition of Hymns Ancient & Modern) this weekend.

    It's Elgar. An Elgar arrangement of the National Anthem. What could be more English. Who could possibly object to this?

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376

    Jesus Christ, putting a position ahead of your personal interests is meant to be the whole point of public service.
    The idea that one might endanger a friendship by declining an annual bung of around half a million dollars travel benefits is an exceedingly odd one. Or the friendship is.

    Harlan Crow is certainly a very odd man.
    He's also a very powerful man. Not everyone owns one-ninth of the Supreme Court of the United States.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Garryowen would be a good anthem. “The best military tune in the world”, as Teddy Roosevelt put it.

    Association with US 7th Cavalry and George Armstrong Custer makes it problematic as anthem, in these wokish times.

    Of course, that's what the Rough Rider liked about it - musical accompaniment for empire and genocide. (TR had his good points, but this was NOT one of 'em).
    That was sort of why I was recommending it.

    The same way people want to replace God Save The King with Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

    Plenty of modern regiments have Garryowen, though.
    I'd consider Land of Hope and Glory an upgrade.

    But, if that were ever likely, the Wokies would have a meltdown.

    I can't think of anything more tub-thumping and ball-bustingly patriotic than it on earth.
    Just as "Singing in the Rain" is never the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange".
    Beethoven's 9th!
    Yes, actually quite of a lot of things are not the same after you've seen "A Clockwork Orange". The William Tell Overture is another.
    "No time for the old Monarchism, luv! I've just come to read the meter!"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141


    The Conservative Party is a barrier towards right wing policies, rather than an implementer of them. You should be careful what you wish for.

    I used to think that. Now I’m not so sure.

    I think it’s bullshit.

    True right wing believers are <25% of voters. They can be safely ignored, under fptp.</p>

    I think you're kidding yourself that the 75% are Republicans who loathe Brexit. That is a common delusion on here.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    Fuck the police, fuck the monarchy.

    Anti-monarchists receive ‘intimidatory’ Home Office letter on new protest laws

    Home Office claims timing of new powers, taking effect days before king’s coronation, is coincidental


    Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning peaceful protests at King Charles III’s coronation saying that new criminal offences to prevent disruption have been rushed into law.

    Using tactics described by lawyers as “intimidatory”, the Home Office’s Police Powers Unit wrote to the campaign group Republic saying new powers had been brought forward to prevent “disruption at major sporting and cultural events”.

    The new law, given royal assent by Charles on Tuesday, means that from Wednesday:


    Protesters who block roads, airports and railways could face 12 months behind bars.

    Anyone locking on to others, objects or buildings could go to prison for six months and face an unlimited fine.

    Police will be able to head off disruption by stopping and searching protesters if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos.


    “I would be grateful if you could publicise and forward this letter to your members who are likely to be affected by these legislative changes,” says the Home Office letter, which lists the creation of a number of new criminal offences under the government’s much criticised public order bill.

    The Home Office claims that the timing of the laws is coincidental. But lawyers have told Republic that the letter could be viewed as intimidatory, days before planned demonstrations in central London around the coronation.

    Graham Smith, the campaign group’s chief executive, described the letter as “very odd” and said the group was seeking assurances from the police that nothing had changed in relation to its plans to protest on coronation day.

    “We have been in direct contact with liaison officers and have met with senior commanders, who we have been very clear with about what we intend to do. Their response is that they are happy for us to proceed. But this letter has come out of the blue,” Smith said.

    “Lawyers who we have been in touch with agree it sounds like intimidation and we are currently waiting for assurances from police nothing has changed.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/anti-monarchists-receive-intimidatory-home-office-letter-on-new-protest-laws-coronation

    “Shut up and bow to the king” seems to be the message.

    On the day, I’m tempted to lay flowers at Althorp estate. But tbh, i’m old enough to be beyond such passive aggressive virtue signalling. It would also be somewhat insincere on my part.

    I’ll just tune out and hope this is the tories last hurrah.

    I think it is.

    The country is crying out for new direction. Why do Tory administrations always end this way? I did my best to nudge them in the right direction, back in 2019. It worked to an extent. And then they go and spoil it all by doing stupid shit like a) Boris Johnson b) Liz Truss and c) repressive shit like this.
    If you think the Archbishop of Canterbury and KCIII are Tories I'm sure it'd come as big news to them.
    Projection, on your part.

    This is Tory onanism. The party deserves to die.

    Shoulda happened in 2017/19, but they limp on, ever more desperate, ever more repressive. The only thing left that united them was tax cuts, until truss destroyed that.

    Now they’re left scraping the barrel, trying to whip the nation into a nationalist fervour.

    Pathetic.

    Only the most credulous, buy it.
    @Heathener you normally post at 6am

    Get some rest.

    Go to bed.
    Really? That’s the best you can come up with?

    Try harder.
    Go to bed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    geoffw said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Always? Were you around last time? I was and sang it in a choir.

    I sung it in my school choir as a boy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    He claimed to be an anarchist and the anti-Christ too. He's as reliable as Boris Johnson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    So should suit everyone then. It's a done deal.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    He claimed to be an anarchist and the anti-Christ too. He's as reliable as Boris Johnson.
    Boris can be relied on to induce apoplexy in pinkos.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar thing with our Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Sure, but for me a ceremonial president is also pretentious - I don't see the need for such ceremony if you are just electing another politician, even one who will generally not stoop (at least in theory).

    So elect a president with a deeper purpose, and lower the pretention that way.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    He claimed to be an anarchist and the anti-Christ too. He's as reliable as Boris Johnson.
    Charles and the Hag are also adulterers :lol:
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.

    I actually think our monarchy, or rather our culture which will determine how the monarchy changes, is a bit more adaptible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2023

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republican former attorney general defending the indefensible.

    Mukasey: If I were a district judge and somebody wanted to fly me on his private plane on a vacation with his family, I were friendly with that person, would I have refused and endangered the friendship? I’m not sure that I would’ve
    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1653449028326117376

    Jesus Christ, putting a position ahead of your personal interests is meant to be the whole point of public service.
    The idea that one might endanger a friendship by declining an annual bung of around half a million dollars travel benefits is an exceedingly odd one. Or the friendship is.

    Harlan Crow is certainly a very odd man.
    He's also a very powerful man. Not everyone owns one-ninth of the Supreme Court of the United States.
    The quote honestly gets worse the more I think about it. I mean, it's basically 'You wouldn't want to upset a man offering you such huge financial goodies would you?'

    Well, no, and that's the point!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    geoffw said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Always? Were you around last time? I was and sang it in a choir.

    The Scottish Chamber Orchestra and chorus performed it at the Edinburgh Festival Fireworks Concert in 2008.

    It was incredible, but sadly the rehearsal was better than the show
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    For new UK anthem, and in nod to the diversity of the Union, allow me to suggest . . .

    "Lloyd George Knew My Father, Father Knew Lloyd George!"

    My other, more serious nominations:

    "Ferry Cross the Mersey" and "To Sir, With Love"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Well as leftwingers like you are generally embarassed about being British anyway, except in terms of the NHS, why should we care that you feel the same about our monarchy?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. Beautiful ,but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but different world.
    I recall Bill Bryson's description essentially being it's the most grand and imperial city possible. Sounds nice for a visit, though I can see the point it might see a little out of place now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Well as leftwingers like you are generally embarassed about being British anyway, except in terms of the NHS, why should we care that you feel the same about our monarchy?
    The USA is a left-wing country?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Always? Were you around last time? I was and sang it in a choir.

    The Scottish Chamber Orchestra and chorus performed it at the Edinburgh Festival Fireworks Concert in 2008.

    It was incredible, but sadly the rehearsal was better than the show
    Because of the weather?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2023
    Sean_F said:



    'The Conservative Party is a barrier towards right wing policies, rather than an implementer of them. You should be careful what you wish for.

    I used to think that. Now I’m not so sure.

    I think it’s bullshit.

    True right wing believers are <25% of voters. They can be safely ignored, under fptp.</p>

    I think you're kidding yourself that the 75% are Republicans who loathe Brexit. That is a common delusion on here.'

    The Republicans who loathe Brexit are also <25%, even most Remainers back the monarchy
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Foxy said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Or we could just swap to the Sex Pistols version of GSTQ.

    The Sex Pistols and Punk Rock being another example of radicalism in Britain, and something to be proud of.
    Johnny Rotten is very patriotic.
    See, Foxy and CR are both Rotten with patriotism!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Well as leftwingers like you are generally embarassed about being British anyway, except in terms of the NHS, why should we care that you feel the same about our monarchy?
    The USA is a left-wing country?
    The only thing most leftwingers like about the USA is it is a republic
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar thing with our Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Sure, but for me a ceremonial president is also pretentious - I don't see the need for such ceremony if you are just electing another politician, even one who will generally not stoop (at least in theory).

    So elect a president with a deeper purpose, and lower the pretention that way.
    Not so dated and embarrassing and inappropriate if it's scaled down and head of state only for the UK not for umpteen former colonies.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. Beautiful ,but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but different world.
    I recall Bill Bryson's description essentially being it's the most grand and imperial city possible. Sounds nice for a visit, though I can see the point it might see a little out of place now.
    Budapest cheaper, and nicer. Even infested by Viktor Orban.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    geoffw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    geoffw said:

    I vow to thee my country, needs to make an appearance too.

    Zadok is a given, but will be sublime - as it always is.

    Always? Were you around last time? I was and sang it in a choir.

    The Scottish Chamber Orchestra and chorus performed it at the Edinburgh Festival Fireworks Concert in 2008.

    It was incredible, but sadly the rehearsal was better than the show
    Because of the weather?

    No, the performance. Maybe it was just the expectation, but at the rehearsal when the chorus joined in the effect was awesome (literally) but during the show it was merely great
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar thing with our Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Sure, but for me a ceremonial president is also pretentious - I don't see the need for such ceremony if you are just electing another politician, even one who will generally not stoop (at least in theory).

    So elect a president with a deeper purpose, and lower the pretention that way.
    Not so dated and embarrassing and inappropriate if it's scaled down and head of state only for the UK not for umpteen former colonies.
    To be honest I would rather have an executive President Johnson or President Blair than some nonentity ex politician who only becomes a ceremonial President as a consolation prize after losing a general election, like Steinmeier in Germany after Merkel beat him in 2009. Keeping our constitutional monarchy best of all however
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.

    I actually think our monarchy, or rather our culture which will determine how the monarchy changes, is a bit more adaptible.
    It is. Great to visit but to live in as a foreigner ... challenging.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Thanks Prince Harry (you fucking dick).

    Support for the Monarchy needs to be up at 75-80% not 60-65%:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/05/the-monarchy-has-to-change-but-the-king-has-time-and-goodwill-on-his-side/#more-17007

    Hurrah, I’m a modern republican according to Lord Ashcroft.

    PS - I think it is Prince Andrew who has damaged the Royals more than Harry.
    Write off the monarchy at your peril. The devil you know and all that....
    I have become a Brexiteer and I want to get rid of our unelected rulers.
    My previous comment refers. Just look what a shithouse the USA has become with its presidency. The Monarchy has a lot going for it.
    Still undemocratic and anti-meritocratic.
    It's what works that matters. Imagine Tony Blair as President and weep.
    Why would Tony Blair be president? Imagine Prince Andrew as King.
    If we became a republic I’m pretty sure it would be of the Irish / German variety: a ceremonial presidency. So we’d be looking at president Mary Berry, David Attenborough or Judy Dench.
    I'd rather a president with powers than without. I know there are places it works, as you list, but if the president is ceremonial I don't see why the need to shift as we've got a ceremonial arrangement already, which comes with silly rituals we can laugh about and has some unique characteristics. If I elect someone I want them to be expected to at least try to do things.

    If there's a change it should be meaningful, not some 21st century style Lord Protector replicating what was there before (only without the power this time).
    It's the scale and tone of it though. I lived in Vienna for a while and I remember being struck by how disproportionately grand and pretentious it seemed as the capital of what was now a small central European country rather than the seat of the Habsburgs. Similar with our OTT Monarchy. A bloated hangover from Empire. Embarrassing now. And inappropriate. That's how I feel anyway.
    Yes, Vienna is strange, isn't it. To me it felt beautiful, but incredibly self-important. Almost as if it lives in a quite cultured, but slightly different world, or timezone.
    But it was a major European capital until 1918, when it became the oversized capital of a rump state. Indeed by this process and not getting bombed in WW2 it is remarkably well preserved.

    There is a melancholy of post imperial decline about its palaces and churches, beautifully described by Stefan Zweig in his "The World of Yesterday".
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