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Some of front pages after Raab’s exit – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited April 2023 in General
imageSome of front pages after Raab’s exit – politicalbetting.com

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  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited April 2023
    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,945
    Say it like you mean it, Heather.

    :)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,945

    Say it like you mean it, Heather.

    :)

    Sorry , Heathener.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Dominic Raab - a martyr to woke?

    How did the human race become so crazy??
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 720
    Fourth ... like Arsenal
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,945
    Chris said:

    Dominic Raab - a martyr to woke?

    How did the human race become so crazy??

    A martyr to boke more like
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Chris said:

    Dominic Raab - a martyr to woke?

    How did the human race become so crazy??

    A martyr to boke more like
    He has certainly manipulated the dead tree press agenda this morning. Remarkable.

    He's a thoroughly nasty piece of work. I've heard NDA stories about him which would make the blood boil. Mouthing w**ker at Keir Starmer across the floor illustrates the basement level these tories have descended into.

    That Sunak, knowing his character, should have appointed him Deputy PM along with people like Braverman and Williamson, shows how weak he is.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    Not your finest retort.

    I go by the polls, as well as what I'm hearing.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers think, none of the recent polls have shown a rise in tory fortune: by-and-large stranded in the 20's. Chasing the alleged shy tory vote to bolster a preconceived agenda is a chimera. There is no magic pill that will restore their fortunes, no missing legions waiting to place their cross.

    Whilst the Labour level of support remains stubbornly 47% ish, rather than TB's 50's, the LibDem level of support in key constituencies will result in a crushing Lib-Lab double hammer blow to tory fortunes. Add to that Labour's resurgence in Scotland.

    It will be a landslide.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    I’ve never known such anger. It’s all people talk about. Pure venom. They’ll be lucky to get more seats than the Lib Dems.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    The pressure was immense one would have thought. Guilty, not proven or innocent, he had to go.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Kremlin tries to build antiwar coalition in Germany, documents show
    Marrying Germany’s far right and far left is a Kremlin goal, according to a trove of Russian documents reviewed by The Washington Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/21/germany-russia-interference-afd-wagenknecht/

    The two extremes of the political spectrum do tend to have quite a lot in common.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    Bullied into it by the dark Kafkaesque forces of woke by his own account; perhaps there should be another enquiry into bullying?
    The only nod to Kafka I can see is a man turning into a cockroach. Why the hell did the BBC feel obliged to give him a platform for an extended whine?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    Not your finest retort.

    I go by the polls, as well as what I'm hearing.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers think, none of the recent polls have shown a rise in tory fortune: by-and-large stranded in the 20's. Chasing the alleged shy tory vote to bolster a preconceived agenda is a chimera. There is no magic pill that will restore their fortunes, no missing legions waiting to place their cross.

    Whilst the Labour level of support remains stubbornly 47% ish, rather than TB's 50's, the LibDem level of support in key constituencies will result in a crushing Lib-Lab double hammer blow to tory fortunes. Add to that Labour's resurgence in Scotland.

    It will be a landslide.
    You can wake up now. Too many more wet dreams and yiu will have to see the Quack.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    We don’t have long to get a hint of what is really going on. Could it be possible that both point of view could be correct and that the anti Tory CotE is unevenly distributed across the country?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    It’s the creeping Republican-isation of the Conservative Party. Logic no longer matters, it’s all about owning the libs, and the deep state conspiracy theory excuses all your failings.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    Because - thankfully - he's also so stupid that he promised he would if the report found him to be a bully.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    Bullied into it by the dark Kafkaesque forces of woke by his own account; perhaps there should be another enquiry into bullying?
    The only nod to Kafka I can see is a man turning into a cockroach. Why the hell did the BBC feel obliged to give him a platform for an extended whine?
    I think his response to the findings just confirm his lack of insight. He really cannot see anything wrong with bullying his staff. The FDA spokesperson was spot on with this quote:

    Responding to claims from supporters of Raab that some complainants were “snowflakes”, Penman told GB News: “I don’t know how you define a snowflake. Someone who can’t take criticism? Someone who blames everyone else for their mistakes? Someone who goes off in a huff? That’s how Dominic Raab has responded to the criticism levelled against him.”
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920
    edited April 2023
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
    I

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    I’ve never known such anger. It’s all people talk about. Pure venom. They’ll be lucky to get more seats than the Lib Dems.
    It's also boots on the ground, isn't it? The postal votes are arriving, and so far I have received nothing at all from the Conservatives, though I understand an introductory card has been delivered in some roads. In contrast, I have received one communication from Labour and three from the Lib Dem candidate.

    This is in a Conservative-held ward, and the Parliamentary seat is held by a Cabinet miinister, so the Tory organisation ought to be better than seems to be the case.

    What is happening elsewhere? Has the Tory organisation collapsed everywhere? Are they in for a real trouncing on 4th May?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, I've received zero electoral literature from anyone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, I've received zero electoral literature from anyone.

    I’ve had one leaflet from Labour. That’s it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Parody Rishi Sunak @Parody_PM
    When asked if he wanted to apologise to civil servants, Dominic Raab said that he was sincerely sorry that he didn’t kick the shit out of more of them while he had the chance.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Leaflet count in traditionally very safe Tory seat.

    0 Tory
    2 LD
    3 Lab
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Jonathan said:

    Leaflet count in traditionally very safe Tory seat.

    0 Tory
    2 LD
    3 Lab

    1 LD in a LD held ward for me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    Are you suggesting that she should have taken advice from Coffey?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
    He’s a has bean.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
    He’s a has bean.
    Better latte than never.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
    He’s a has bean.
    Definitely bean ground down.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
    He’s a has bean.
    Better latte than never.
    That flat-ters him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited April 2023

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    Are you OK Hun?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    I think people are overestimating how much people care about local elections, or how much difference a leaflet makes.

    FWIW, I've received 2 Tory and 2 Lib Dem but I don't think anyone cares.

    I expect a fairly low turnout. And, I don't think it will tell us very much meaningfully about next year.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    ClippP said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Raab is typical of the current tories. Tone deaf to the stench of sleaze, corruption, and hatred which surrounds almost all their actions and utterances.

    Whatever Mike and the Wobblers say, the tories are in for a shellacking and Labour will win a landslide.

    20% ahead in the latest opinion poll ...



    Don't be ridiculous. It will be much worse than that.

    Labour will win a landslide so vast the land will end up in the sea and form a new island called LabourLand. Labour will have a 30% lead at least and the Conservatives will be lucky if they need a minibus to fit all their MPs in at the end. The minibus will be daubed with 'criminals' and 'shame' and it will be spat at in the street.

    Whatever people say THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
    I

    A Day of Reckoning is coming.
    I’ve never known such anger. It’s all people talk about. Pure venom. They’ll be lucky to get more seats than the Lib Dems.
    It's also boots on the ground, isn't it? The postal votes are arriving, and so far I have received nothing at all from the Conservatives, though I understand an introductory card has been delivered in some roads. In contrast, I have received one communication from Labour and three from the Lib Dem candidate.

    This is in a Conservative-held ward, and the Parliamentary seat is held by a Cabinet miinister, so the Tory organisation ought to be better than seems to be the case.

    What is happening elsewhere? Has the Tory organisation collapsed everywhere? Are they in for a real trouncing on 4th May?

    You do need a reasonable number of supporters under the age of 65 to get sufficient boots on the ground to do a leafletting and doorstepping campaign.

    (Yes, there are some younger Conservative activists even now, and yes there are some very active OAPs, but they add up to not enough. One has to admire the energy of people like Cllr Palmer.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal
  • The life I have is hard, but I got to choose it, and the road that brought me here I did not.
  • Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course he took his gun shopping. How else do you get the best bargains?

    I know that shitkickers turn to gammony fury insisting that their Second Amendment rights are sacrosanct. But have they ever read it? A "well-regulated" militia. What is regulated about all these lunatics pulling a gun at every opportunity because the local Tesco meat counter is closed?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course he took his gun shopping. How else do you get the best bargains?

    I know that shitkickers turn to gammony fury insisting that their Second Amendment rights are sacrosanct. But have they ever read it? A "well-regulated" militia. What is regulated about all these lunatics pulling a gun at every opportunity because the local Tesco meat counter is closed?
    I’m glad they didn’t allow guns at the post office in the run up to Christmas. Those customs declaration forms were causing serious aggravation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    I think people are overestimating how much people care about local elections, or how much difference a leaflet makes.

    FWIW, I've received 2 Tory and 2 Lib Dem but I don't think anyone cares.

    I expect a fairly low turnout. And, I don't think it will tell us very much meaningfully about next year.

    Local elections usually are half the turnout of a General Election, and tend to be the more committed voters.

    So I think we will get some information on how well motivated the core vote is for each party, though it is the less committed voters and DKs that are probably key to the next GE.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    The life I have is hard, but I got to choose it, and the road that brought me here I did not.

    i hope you didn't actually buy the book
  • Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    Because - thankfully - he's also so stupid that he promised he would if the report found him to be a bully.
    If course he did. Because he isn't a bully. And he will smash your fucking face in if you say he is. To prove he isn't.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,671
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andreajenkyns
    Sad to see @DominicRaab leave gov. PM should have backed him. I was Dom's PPS when he was Housing Minister & saw his commitment, grasp of the brief, was always curtious & honest. This has set a dangerous precident. I previously backed him for leader as he is a true Thacherite.

    @andreajenkyns
    In the leadership hustings he stood out against woke nonsense, whilst other male candidates said they were feminists, he quite rightly said he wasn't. A true brexiteer, we were on the Brexit committee together. Im sure this wouldn't have happened to someone who is left of centre.

    The mis-spellings in the tweet are direct quotes.
    She should have hired that barrister who went up against Jeremy Clarkson…
    She tried to, but she ended up with a barista instead.
    And I bet it didn’t even save her money, what with the Costa living crisis.
    No two ways about it. Raab has bean roasted.
    He’s a has bean.
    Better latte than never.
    That flat-ters him.
    He's been iced.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Foxy said:

    I think people are overestimating how much people care about local elections, or how much difference a leaflet makes.

    FWIW, I've received 2 Tory and 2 Lib Dem but I don't think anyone cares.

    I expect a fairly low turnout. And, I don't think it will tell us very much meaningfully about next year.

    Local elections usually are half the turnout of a General Election, and tend to be the more committed voters.

    So I think we will get some information on how well motivated the core vote is for each party, though it is the less committed voters and DKs that are probably key to the next GE.
    Yes, I think that is fair.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Foxy said:

    I think people are overestimating how much people care about local elections, or how much difference a leaflet makes.

    FWIW, I've received 2 Tory and 2 Lib Dem but I don't think anyone cares.

    I expect a fairly low turnout. And, I don't think it will tell us very much meaningfully about next year.

    Local elections usually are half the turnout of a General Election, and tend to be the more committed voters.

    So I think we will get some information on how well motivated the core vote is for each party, though it is the less committed voters and DKs that are probably key to the next GE.
    Real votes are more interesting than wild mid term opinion polls. I am curious about the Curtis national vote share projection.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Jonathan said:

    Leaflet count in traditionally very safe Tory seat.

    0 Tory
    2 LD
    3 Lab

    2 green signs f all else
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course it's normal. He wants steak, not tofu. One small victory against woke.
  • Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Raab is so aggrieved, why did the **** resign ?

    Bullied into it by the dark Kafkaesque forces of woke by his own account; perhaps there should be another enquiry into bullying?
    The only nod to Kafka I can see is a man turning into a cockroach. Why the hell did the BBC feel obliged to give him a platform for an extended whine?
    I think his response to the findings just confirm his lack of insight. He really cannot see anything wrong with bullying his staff. The FDA spokesperson was spot on with this quote:

    Responding to claims from supporters of Raab that some complainants were “snowflakes”, Penman told GB News: “I don’t know how you define a snowflake. Someone who can’t take criticism? Someone who blames everyone else for their mistakes? Someone who goes off in a huff? That’s how Dominic Raab has responded to the criticism levelled against him.”
    Read the front pages of the Daily Heil and the Daily Maddie in the header. Snowflakery at its very best. They foam on about the left and the woke, but the Blackshirt whines about how the country is now ungovernable because the civil servants refused to give in to the Might of this Big Man.

    No wonder they want to create a trans war against transgender people. They are the real threat. Not the leading men who are bullies or rapists in their organisations. Raab just wanted what was best for Britain. As I assume the CBI people did.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Typical carnivore.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    I think people are overestimating how much people care about local elections, or how much difference a leaflet makes.

    FWIW, I've received 2 Tory and 2 Lib Dem but I don't think anyone cares.

    I expect a fairly low turnout. And, I don't think it will tell us very much meaningfully about next year.

    Local elections usually are half the turnout of a General Election, and tend to be the more committed voters.

    So I think we will get some information on how well motivated the core vote is for each party, though it is the less committed voters and DKs that are probably key to the next GE.
    Real votes are more interesting than wild mid term opinion polls. I am curious about the Curtis national vote share projection.
    I agree. Pity Scotland isn't voting as that could be crucial.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    As Nanny jerked
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Chris said:

    As Nanny jerked

    Er...TMI.
  • Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course he took his gun shopping. How else do you get the best bargains?

    I know that shitkickers turn to gammony fury insisting that their Second Amendment rights are sacrosanct. But have they ever read it? A "well-regulated" militia. What is regulated about all these lunatics pulling a gun at every opportunity because the local Tesco meat counter is closed?
    I’m glad they didn’t allow guns at the post office in the run up to Christmas. Those customs declaration forms were causing serious aggravation.
    Snowflake. If you are having difficulty with a customs form - from the Gubbermint!!! - then using your gun will make it go away.

    A well-regulated militia would be ensuring that lunatics and crazies and alpha-males like Raab didn't have a gun. Instead they think every lunatic should have one and deploy it when the traffic lights turn red.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Perhaps we should combine the two stories on this thread.

    Raab can return to the DoJ, but every time a civil servant feels intimidated they can pull a gun on him.

    What could possibly go wrong?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course he took his gun shopping. How else do you get the best bargains?

    I know that shitkickers turn to gammony fury insisting that their Second Amendment rights are sacrosanct. But have they ever read it? A "well-regulated" militia. What is regulated about all these lunatics pulling a gun at every opportunity because the local Tesco meat counter is closed?
    I’m glad they didn’t allow guns at the post office in the run up to Christmas. Those customs declaration forms were causing serious aggravation.
    Snowflake. If you are having difficulty with a customs form - from the Gubbermint!!! - then using your gun will make it go away.

    A well-regulated militia would be ensuring that lunatics and crazies and alpha-males like Raab didn't have a gun. Instead they think every lunatic should have one and deploy it when the traffic lights turn red.
    Speaking of Post Offices, any update on that missing form?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
  • Scott_xP said:

    The life I have is hard, but I got to choose it, and the road that brought me here I did not.

    i hope you didn't actually buy the book
    God no! Imagine having actually spent hard earned cash on it, and reading that opening line..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    It’s 38C in Bangkok. Cosy
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting that the Telegraph account is that the big bust up was over the Foreign Office (once again) selling a UK negotiating position down the river.......anyroad up, a very poor manager has been relegated to the back benches, so at last some good has come of it.
  • ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perfectly normal.

    https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1649549998260879360
    A Missouri man threatened a grocery store worker with his gun because the meat department was closed and he wanted steak. He claims the gun use was meant to communicate: “I need you to help me to get a couple of these steaks. I’m not going to hurt you.”

    Of course he took his gun shopping. How else do you get the best bargains?

    I know that shitkickers turn to gammony fury insisting that their Second Amendment rights are sacrosanct. But have they ever read it? A "well-regulated" militia. What is regulated about all these lunatics pulling a gun at every opportunity because the local Tesco meat counter is closed?
    I’m glad they didn’t allow guns at the post office in the run up to Christmas. Those customs declaration forms were causing serious aggravation.
    Snowflake. If you are having difficulty with a customs form - from the Gubbermint!!! - then using your gun will make it go away.

    A well-regulated militia would be ensuring that lunatics and crazies and alpha-males like Raab didn't have a gun. Instead they think every lunatic should have one and deploy it when the traffic lights turn red.
    Speaking of Post Offices, any update on that missing form?
    Yeah. I'm sending the 2nd copy of the certificate via DHL on Monday...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Air National Guardsman accused of leaking classified documents to a small group of gamers had been posting sensitive information months earlier than previously known and to a much larger chat group, according to online postings reviewed by The New York Times.

    In February 2022, soon after the invasion of Ukraine, a user profile matching that of Airman Jack Teixeira began posting secret intelligence on the Russian war effort on a previously undisclosed chat group on Discord, a social media platform popular among gamers. The chat group contained about 600 members.

    The case against Airman Teixeira, 21, who was arrested on April 13, pertains to the leaking of classified documents on another Discord group of about 50 members....


    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/us/politics/jack-teixeira-leaks-russia-ukraine.html
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    The claim that Raab was forced out by subversive civil servants because "he wanted the best for Britain" is ludicrous. Don't other people want the best for Britain? Does that immediately trigger a campaign to get rid of them?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,945

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, I've received zero electoral literature from anyone.

    Same here, but here is Pembrokeshire...

    :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Interesting that the Telegraph account is that the big bust up was over the Foreign Office (once again) selling a UK negotiating position down the river.......anyroad up, a very poor manager has been relegated to the back benches, so at last some good has come of it.

    Now for the DfE...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    FF43 said:

    The claim that Raab was forced out by subversive civil servants because "he wanted the best for Britain" is ludicrous. Don't other people want the best for Britain? Does that immediately trigger a campaign to get rid of them?

    No they don't.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    I suspect the polling isn't picking up that level of subtlety. But for the national psychology, I'm not sure that matters. After all, elections are much more about feels and less about details than we all like to admit.

    And the feels intrigue me. I can see the UK landing in a place where it doesn't like any of the ways forward. The current model of Brexit makes life a bit worse all round. Full fat rejoin has consequences the UK hasn't begun to consider the costs of. Halfway houses will be worse than the ones negotiated by Maggie (rebate), Major (opt outs) and Dave. The UK is too big and proud to put up with Norwegian arrangements.

    What happens when a country doesn't like any of the choices on the table? Often nothing, hence the hysteresis. But what does that do to the national spirit?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Just noticed that the lanyard worn by the guard on my TransPennine express to Sheffield bears, appropriately enough, the stripes of the Trans pride flag, standing up for all those brave souls daring to cross the boundary of the Pennines and sticking it to all those CisPennine types staying on whichever side of the hills they were born on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Cookie said:

    Just noticed that the lanyard worn by the guard on my TransPennine express to Sheffield bears, appropriately enough, the stripes of the Trans pride flag, standing up for all those brave souls daring to cross the boundary of the Pennines and sticking it to all those CisPennine types staying on whichever side of the hills they were born on.

    I think anyone who travels on TPE deserves a medal for bravery. A true voyage into the unknown.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 703
    Canvassing report here on South Coast:
    1 letter from Conservative candidate
    1 flyer from Labour candidate
    Letter plus visit to introduce herself from Green candidate
  • FF43 said:

    The claim that Raab was forced out by subversive civil servants because "he wanted the best for Britain" is ludicrous. Don't other people want the best for Britain? Does that immediately trigger a campaign to get rid of them?

    Best for Britain is whatever these alpha men say or want. Raab bullied civil servants at various government departments over a number of years. Is that Best fit Britain? How about the rapey culture in the CBI where these leaders not only prey on staff but then have the organisation cover it up. Best for Britain?

    If we listen to the right - the people who whine on about woke and snowflakes - we would just let these true patriots do whatever they want to do and thank them for it. Unless we appoint Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men to the very top and let them Code Red as they choose, we lose the country.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    These leads have only really existed for about a year, and under Boris 2 years ago (after the successful early UK vaccine roll-out) Stay Out had a clear lead. I'm not sure it's resilient or stable and I suspect that a good amount of it is dynamically-linked to the popularity of the incumbent administration.

    It's probably measuring a "can we all make it all go away, go back to how things were, and pretend it never happened?" sentiment but that's not on offer. So it would probably be subject to heavy swings during any campaign and, were Rejoin successful, would dominate politics for years and simply land us with a different set of political problems thereafter, similar to pre-2016, or worse.

    As always, what people are after is a compromise they can life with, which probably means a closer relationship with the EU than we currently have. Given I've heard from university-educated friends how Rishi has "reversed Brexit" in Northern Ireland, despite having actually extended the scope of sovereignty of HMG, anything that eases everyday life for passage of goods, people and services will probably do the trick.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Seems to me the key part of the Raab report is that the permanent secretary at the Justice Department twice spoke to him about his behaviour and asked him to raise issues with her. Raab denied she had done this. Tolley made clear he did not believe him. In and of itself, that is surely a resignation issue.

    Is there are written record of this, or is it a 'he said she said' situation ?. It would be different if there was a written record. There are few formal procedures etc, to manage this type of situation, in a way that there are in companies.

    Think about it this way... if it was the other way around, and it was a senior civil servant who was accused of being 'intimidating' how would it work? I think that there would have been a meeting with HR, and that is about it.

    The reaction to this situation is dangerously polarising. Sure a lot of people who don't like the government are celebrating. But I think the 'activist civil servant' narrative, and Raab's own take on the situation, is also very damaging - in that it is really damaging for public trust in the civil service, as evidenced in a lot of reporting.

    Sunak needs to fundamentally sort out the Ministerial code to a) set out clearer expectations of ministerial conduct but also b) set out processes to resolve complaints about Ministers without a KC report, 4 month long investigation etc, and with the idea that they should only be sacked for something approaching gross misconduct, not vague allegations.

  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    I suspect the polling isn't picking up that level of subtlety. But for the national psychology, I'm not sure that matters. After all, elections are much more about feels and less about details than we all like to admit.

    And the feels intrigue me. I can see the UK landing in a place where it doesn't like any of the ways forward. The current model of Brexit makes life a bit worse all round. Full fat rejoin has consequences the UK hasn't begun to consider the costs of. Halfway houses will be worse than the ones negotiated by Maggie (rebate), Major (opt outs) and Dave. The UK is too big and proud to put up with Norwegian arrangements.

    What happens when a country doesn't like any of the choices on the table? Often nothing, hence the hysteresis. But what does that do to the national spirit?
    Good morning

    I believe there will be a much closer relationship with the EU as time passes, and to be fair Sunak has commenced the healing with the WF and his recent warm words to UVDL at the Good Friday Agreement celebrations

    Furthermore, he has much improved relationships with Macron and France and it is in everyone's interest to continue this process, whether it is Sunak or Starmer until we arrive at a settled status

    I would just say I do not see settled status as full hard Brexit or rejoin
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    I prefer to think it's not eveidnce of Britain being ungovernable, but of the government being unBritish. But perhaps I have a rose-tinted idea of what being British means or should mean.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Picard. So much joy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Cookie said:

    Just noticed that the lanyard worn by the guard on my TransPennine express to Sheffield bears, appropriately enough, the stripes of the Trans pride flag, standing up for all those brave souls daring to cross the boundary of the Pennines and sticking it to all those CisPennine types staying on whichever side of the hills they were born on.

    Odd really. TPE are often very good at making people stay on the side of the Pennines where they currently are.
    Sleeper agents for Terfs?

    Or just railing against restrictions?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    These leads have only really existed for about a year, and under Boris 2 years ago (after the successful early UK vaccine roll-out) Stay Out had a clear lead. I'm not sure it's resilient or stable and I suspect that a good amount of it is dynamically-linked to the popularity of the incumbent administration.

    It's probably measuring a "can we all make it all go away, go back to how things were, and pretend it never happened?" sentiment but that's not on offer. So it would probably be subject to heavy swings during any campaign and, were Rejoin successful, would dominate politics for years and simply land us with a different set of political problems thereafter, similar to pre-2016, or worse.

    As always, what people are after is a compromise they can life with, which probably means a closer relationship with the EU than we currently have. Given I've heard from university-educated friends how Rishi has "reversed Brexit" in Northern Ireland, despite having actually extended the scope of sovereignty of HMG, anything that eases everyday life for passage of goods, people and services will probably do the trick.
    In short, Brexit didn’t settle the UK’s relationship with the rest of Europe. It continues to be debated and a mystical compromise is elusive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    I suspect the polling isn't picking up that level of subtlety. But for the national psychology, I'm not sure that matters. After all, elections are much more about feels and less about details than we all like to admit.

    And the feels intrigue me. I can see the UK landing in a place where it doesn't like any of the ways forward. The current model of Brexit makes life a bit worse all round. Full fat rejoin has consequences the UK hasn't begun to consider the costs of. Halfway houses will be worse than the ones negotiated by Maggie (rebate), Major (opt outs) and Dave. The UK is too big and proud to put up with Norwegian arrangements.

    What happens when a country doesn't like any of the choices on the table? Often nothing, hence the hysteresis. But what does that do to the national spirit?
    Oh, I agree, the practicality of Rejoin has not yet been considered, so we are stuck with a menu of choices that are unpalatable to large parts of the country.

    My point is mainly that there is no sign that the country is falling in line behind a Brexit consensus, rather the opposite.

    I would say that the "Brexit in Peril" vote is 31% rather than 40% in this poll, as not likely to motivate the Don't Know/Don't Care vote. This is pretty similar to the Tory core vote.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    FF43 said:

    The claim that Raab was forced out by subversive civil servants because "he wanted the best for Britain" is ludicrous. Don't other people want the best for Britain? Does that immediately trigger a campaign to get rid of them?

    Best for Britain is whatever these alpha men say or want. Raab bullied civil servants at various government departments over a number of years. Is that Best fit Britain? How about the rapey culture in the CBI where these leaders not only prey on staff but then have the organisation cover it up. Best for Britain?

    If we listen to the right - the people who whine on about woke and snowflakes - we would just let these true patriots do whatever they want to do and thank them for it. Unless we appoint Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men to the very top and let them Code Red as they choose, we lose the country.
    One of the things that old fashioned Conservatives used to say was "The trouble with Socialists is that they think their opponents are evil. Conservatives don't think Socialists are evil, just sadly mistaken."

    It was always a bit smug and condescending, but there was a large kernel of truth in it. I'm not sure there is so much any more.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Locals here are complaining about the 38C heat

    I laugh them to scorn and tell them I’m from London where it hits 40C. Gaylords
  • Chris said:

    As Nanny jerked

    Using What3words again I see
  • Cookie said:

    Just noticed that the lanyard worn by the guard on my TransPennine express to Sheffield bears, appropriately enough, the stripes of the Trans pride flag, standing up for all those brave souls daring to cross the boundary of the Pennines and sticking it to all those CisPennine types staying on whichever side of the hills they were born on.

    Odd really. TPE are often very good at making people stay on the side of the Pennines where they currently are.
    Currently much debate about the future of the operation. Now that the DfT have succeeded in scaring away passengers by randomly cancelling a substantial number of services every day, they can justify taking half the fleet away and redeploying it elsewhere.

    If Transpennine no longer have enough seats on offer the DfT can impose heavy fare rises and make people drive. Which is the whole idea. Better still, redeploying the fleet over the heads of operators means no new trains are needed. Order books have been closed for a while now (DfT controls all train purchases) and if they keep them closed a bit longer they can succeed in finally closing the remaining factories. Which is the whole idea.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    darkage said:

    Seems to me the key part of the Raab report is that the permanent secretary at the Justice Department twice spoke to him about his behaviour and asked him to raise issues with her. Raab denied she had done this. Tolley made clear he did not believe him. In and of itself, that is surely a resignation issue.

    Is there are written record of this, or is it a 'he said she said' situation ?. It would be different if there was a written record. There are few formal procedures etc, to manage this type of situation, in a way that there are in companies.

    Think about it this way... if it was the other way around, and it was a senior civil servant who was accused of being 'intimidating' how would it work? I think that there would have been a meeting with HR, and that is about it.

    The reaction to this situation is dangerously polarising. Sure a lot of people who don't like the government are celebrating. But I think the 'activist civil servant' narrative, and Raab's own take on the situation, is also very damaging - in that it is really damaging for public trust in the civil service, as evidenced in a lot of reporting.

    Sunak needs to fundamentally sort out the Ministerial code to a) set out clearer expectations of ministerial conduct but also b) set out processes to resolve complaints about Ministers without a KC report, 4 month long investigation etc, and with the idea that they should only be sacked for something approaching gross misconduct, not vague allegations.

    The PS kept a contemporaneous, written record of the exchanges and handed them over to Tolley.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    darkage said:

    Seems to me the key part of the Raab report is that the permanent secretary at the Justice Department twice spoke to him about his behaviour and asked him to raise issues with her. Raab denied she had done this. Tolley made clear he did not believe him. In and of itself, that is surely a resignation issue.

    Is there are written record of this, or is it a 'he said she said' situation ?. It would be different if there was a written record.
    I think the fact that you say "Is there a written record ... It would be different if there was ..." says something about the level of preconceptions about this.

    As already discussed, there was a written record made by the civil servant, which Tolley examined and evidently accepted as genuine.



  • Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    These leads have only really existed for about a year, and under Boris 2 years ago (after the successful early UK vaccine roll-out) Stay Out had a clear lead. I'm not sure it's resilient or stable and I suspect that a good amount of it is dynamically-linked to the popularity of the incumbent administration.

    It's probably measuring a "can we all make it all go away, go back to how things were, and pretend it never happened?" sentiment but that's not on offer. So it would probably be subject to heavy swings during any campaign and, were Rejoin successful, would dominate politics for years and simply land us with a different set of political problems thereafter, similar to pre-2016, or worse.

    As always, what people are after is a compromise they can life with, which probably means a closer relationship with the EU than we currently have. Given I've heard from university-educated friends how Rishi has "reversed Brexit" in Northern Ireland, despite having actually extended the scope of sovereignty of HMG, anything that eases everyday life for passage of goods, people and services will probably do the trick.
    In short, Brexit didn’t settle the UK’s relationship with the rest of Europe. It continues to be debated and a mystical compromise is elusive.
    It is a process that will take time but in the meantime an improved dialogue with the EU is a start which has begun under Sunak
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited April 2023

    darkage said:

    Seems to me the key part of the Raab report is that the permanent secretary at the Justice Department twice spoke to him about his behaviour and asked him to raise issues with her. Raab denied she had done this. Tolley made clear he did not believe him. In and of itself, that is surely a resignation issue.

    Is there are written record of this, or is it a 'he said she said' situation ?. It would be different if there was a written record. There are few formal procedures etc, to manage this type of situation, in a way that there are in companies.

    Think about it this way... if it was the other way around, and it was a senior civil servant who was accused of being 'intimidating' how would it work? I think that there would have been a meeting with HR, and that is about it.

    The reaction to this situation is dangerously polarising. Sure a lot of people who don't like the government are celebrating. But I think the 'activist civil servant' narrative, and Raab's own take on the situation, is also very damaging - in that it is really damaging for public trust in the civil service, as evidenced in a lot of reporting.

    Sunak needs to fundamentally sort out the Ministerial code to a) set out clearer expectations of ministerial conduct but also b) set out processes to resolve complaints about Ministers without a KC report, 4 month long investigation etc, and with the idea that they should only be sacked for something approaching gross misconduct, not vague allegations.

    The PS kept a contemporaneous, written record of the exchanges and handed them over to Tolley.

    It could of course have been written later and predated. I've known that happen in HR situations.

    But the question is - why would she? It doesn't seem she was one of the complainants.

    Which is presumably why it was accepted as genuine and Raab's 'never spoke to me' was not.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speaking of the bizarre double standards of expectation that have been at play throughout this unedifying case, it was Raab who – after he succeeded Davis at DExEU – announced in public: “We are, and I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this … but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Imagine saying that out loud as a secretary of state, then beetling off to insult some underling for failing to pander to one of your Microsoft Word idiosyncrasies. Ditto Raab’s failure to read the 32-page Good Friday agreement. Raab eventually resigned as Brexit secretary because he couldn’t support a deal he himself had negotiated. But honestly, mate, tell me again how all you demand from people are the same high professional standards to which you hold yourself.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal

    On the subject of Brexit had this Omnis yesterday:



    It was 49% vs 31% including the DK/WNV
    There's definitely a hysteresis effect here- Rejoin (or even Revisit the type of Brexit) is going to need a big lead to make politicians want to open the can of worms. After all 40% is still a temptingly large "Brexit is in peril" vote.

    But equally, if the polling doesn't drift back towards "Stay out", I don't see how the status quo can persist indefinitely.
    Are they asking for rejoin as the status quo ante, or rejoin as it would be in practice?

    I think signing up to the Euro and Schengen would see a much closer result...
    I suspect the polling isn't picking up that level of subtlety. But for the national psychology, I'm not sure that matters. After all, elections are much more about feels and less about details than we all like to admit.

    And the feels intrigue me. I can see the UK landing in a place where it doesn't like any of the ways forward. The current model of Brexit makes life a bit worse all round. Full fat rejoin has consequences the UK hasn't begun to consider the costs of. Halfway houses will be worse than the ones negotiated by Maggie (rebate), Major (opt outs) and Dave. The UK is too big and proud to put up with Norwegian arrangements.

    What happens when a country doesn't like any of the choices on the table? Often nothing, hence the hysteresis. But what does that do to the national spirit?
    Maybe it's just me, but I'm perfectly happy with the current arrangements and participation in the EPU.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited April 2023
    On holiday but today's must read.

    ‘I’m the Führer, the king’: inside Boris Johnson’s chaotic world

    In July 2019, Boris Johnson, our new prime minister, caused the first of many stirs when he appointed Dominic Cummings as his special adviser. Cummings came to be seen as the power behind the throne. But there was another pretender to that title: Carrie Symonds. By Anthony Seldon and Raymond Newell


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/103012f0-df61-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=fa576b61edd849ef4fe01cd8f7aff7c4
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    There are extracts from a new book about the chaos and catastrophe of BoZo in Downing Street published in The Times this weekend.

    His reputation will only get worse over time, as will that of his pet project.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Anyway, having poked the hornet's nest I'm off for my son's first swimming lesson.

    Have a good day, everyone.
This discussion has been closed.