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The SNP’s rapid unscheduled disassembly continues – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited April 2023 in General
imageThe SNP’s rapid unscheduled disassembly continues – politicalbetting.com

Our first Holyrood voting intention poll since Humza Yousaf became FM shows the SNP regional vote is the lowest since the 2014 indy referendum, and the constituency vote is the joint-lowestLabour's constituency vote is the highest since the referendumhttps://t.co/slB3cfES2k https://t.co/jNFCtm7dMf

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First like No in Scotland.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    Second like the SNP in Scotland. Oh, hold on, they're still first.
  • FPT
    DavidL said:

    On topic, the Raab report must be a slightly mixed bag and Sunak has to decide whether it justifies dismissal or not. Clearly, the more serious allegations have not been upheld or he would have gone yesterday. On the other hand I suspect that there are some criticisms.

    Sunak's problem is that he does not want a repeat of the Boris/Priti Patel fiasco which seriously undermined the Ministerial Code and cost an ethics advisor. On the other hand he doesn't want to give senior civil servants some sort of veto of who is in his government. And he doesn't need yet another civil service conflict either.

    My guess is that what will be announced is that Raab will undergo some training or bullying awareness course but remain in office. Sunak will be accused of being weak and indecisive but that is a price he will have to pay.

    We know for a fact that a straight up "they are a bully" report doesn't get the bully fired - Priti Patel.

    This Conservative Party has no interest in ethics and morality, so the lack of a firing yesterday says nothing at all about the report. Raab won't quit. Sunak won't fire him. Ministers defend him. Incredulity. Then aggrieved civil servants quit and start talking. Part of the report leaks, directly contradicting ministerial statements. More incredulity. then Raab is fired. Ministers claim they have acted swiftly. Even more incredulity.

    Give it time.
  • FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited April 2023
    More like an abnormal evolution.

    Edit - if ever I get round to writing my book on airships in the 1920s, that's what I'm calling it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    FPT:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Excitingly, my postal voting paper (last one in the period I set up during the pandemic) has arrived, and I've received zero electoral literature whatsoever. Interestingly, there are more candidates than usual for the locals, including the SDP and Reform UK.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    The SNP Westminster vote seems to be holding up pretty well. They'll win a lot of seats on that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    TBF, everyone in this country is saying our leaders are gross.

    Well, grossly incompetent, anyway.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @techneUK
    11m
    NEW POLL: Labour lead down to 13 in Techne tracker

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 31% (+1)
    LibDem 10% (nc)
    Reform 5% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,632 questioned on 19-20 April.

    +/- 12-13 April.

    Data - technetracker.co.uk
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721

    FPT:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Excitingly, my postal voting paper (last one in the period I set up during the pandemic) has arrived, and I've received zero electoral literature whatsoever. Interestingly, there are more candidates than usual for the locals, including the SDP and Reform UK.

    Minor bit of electioneering on the local Facebook page, but otherwise nothing locally. Didn’t matter to me as I’d made up my mind already! And the votes gone in.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    There is no alternative yet, but there could be in future.

    Alba could be that, other forces can emerge too.

    For many years Labour thought there was no alternative to them for the Red Wall so neglected it. They learnt the hard way there was.
  • The SNP story isn't remotely complete. Plenty of calamity which can still befall them - potentially the arrest of Nippie for questioning, charges being levelled against various people, the party failing to audit its accounts and losing £lots of short money.

    The gloss is coming off the SNP paint job. Suggestions of rust beneath. But until we see the rust, we won't know just how bad this gets.

    Three scenarios:
    1. Rust averted. Yousaf claims to be a sadder and wiser engine, and the SNP get back to measured decline through growing incompetence and a lack of ideas. Slow decline.
    2. Bad things happen to the SNP but their ultras insist its all a conspiracy. Voters and potentially some representatives jump ship to the other two nationalist parties, diluting the vote. Infighting. Rapid decline.
    3. The SNP implodes completely. Mega arrests and police charges of Very Bad Things. Major cash crisis. Forbes and the other one announce the formation of a successor party, despite earlier misgivings members and representatives decide propriety outweights concerns about fundamentalism, and SNP2 largely picks up where the SNP was. Yousless and the most hardcore cling to the remains as some SDP or UKIP members did.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    The irony is that cars are always stopped for the Marathon which is far more disruptive to traffic than any sit-down protest.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Given the demographics of Glasgow Polok I would be surprised if Yousaf lost his seat regardless of what happens to the SNP elsewhere.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    The lesson for Unionists here and in other countries is to delay and prevaricate as much as you can. Eventually, the main pro-indy party will succumb to the same diseases that affect all political parties in government.

    The Greens and Alba are nowhere, so the decoupling of the main party from the cause is a real problem for indy supporters.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    FPT:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Excitingly, my postal voting paper (last one in the period I set up during the pandemic) has arrived, and I've received zero electoral literature whatsoever. Interestingly, there are more candidates than usual for the locals, including the SDP and Reform UK.

    Oddly enough, the SDP and Reform have just announced a pact;

    https://www.reformparty.uk/reformuk_sdp_general_election_pact

    A sort of SDP-Not Very Liberal Alliance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited April 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    I may be feeling cynical today, but to this outsider the goals of JSO appear to be to reduce everyone else to penury while they continue to enjoy their lifestyle of luxury.

    Their headline goals may be cleaning up the planet but their actions sure as hell don't match their words.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Romford, seems a little counter-intuitive, but interesting to learn of the pact.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    The Lib Dems seem to be staging a mini recovery in Scottish polling after a calamitous few years. I can only idly speculate from South of the border but I wonder if there’s a none-of-the-above (or rather neither Tory nor Lab) vote that was comfortable with the SNP until now but might rehome itself with the Lib Dems for a while.
  • FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    Are you saying this is a fake poll

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    It’s like a non-lethal version of the old IRA tactics. I suppose it worked for them.
  • FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    It reminds me of the depths of the Corbyn crisis in Labour. Open speculation about a mass defection event where the majority of Labour MPs and the pre-2015 membership simply sidestep into a new party and leave the trots and entryists behind. As I understand it such conversations got quite deep into consideration.

    I agree that there is no alternative to the SNP. Green is a very different beast. And the Salmond Ego Bus would make a lot of people gip - and still not win any seats.

    The alternative to the SNP is a new SNP party. Must be some business people in Scotland susceptible to giving launch funding, especially if the SNP does start a rapid collapse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    I like the headline, TSE, but isn't this an implosion, not explosion ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    Mr. Romford, seems a little counter-intuitive, but interesting to learn of the pact.

    The SDP have been a hard Brexit party for a few years now, so it’s not so surprising.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited April 2023

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    Are you saying this is a fake poll

    I'm saying you're sharing incomplete info, a bit like presenting a Scottish subsample as a full Scotland poll.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    There is no alternative yet, but there could be in future.

    Alba could be that, other forces can emerge too.

    For many years Labour thought there was no alternative to them for the Red Wall so neglected it. They learnt the hard way there was.
    The alternative to the SNP is Labour. For an SNP voter this means dropping independence as a political goal which was the reason for supporting the party in the first place. There will be some shif on the margins in the medium term but the SNP will hold onto its core vote unless the party collapses I think.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    Scott_xP said:

    @techneUK
    11m
    NEW POLL: Labour lead down to 13 in Techne tracker

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 31% (+1)
    LibDem 10% (nc)
    Reform 5% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,632 questioned on 19-20 April.

    +/- 12-13 April.

    Data - technetracker.co.uk

    This is the poll I was talking about in the previous thread. Below the bonnet:

    1. More 2019 Tories returning to the Tories
    2. No Labour to Tory movement
    3. Notable 2019 Labour to LibDem movemen

    Could just be noise, but if not that point 3 looks significant ahead of the locals given the nature of the seats being contested.

  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    BTW nice contemporary headline
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    It’s like a non-lethal version of the old IRA tactics. I suppose it worked for them.
    Well, not really. They didn't get a united Ireland which is what they wanted.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    edited April 2023

    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    It reminds me of the depths of the Corbyn crisis in Labour. Open speculation about a mass defection event where the majority of Labour MPs and the pre-2015 membership simply sidestep into a new party and leave the trots and entryists behind. As I understand it such conversations got quite deep into consideration.

    I agree that there is no alternative to the SNP. Green is a very different beast. And the Salmond Ego Bus would make a lot of people gip - and still not win any seats.

    The alternative to the SNP is a new SNP party. Must be some business people in Scotland susceptible to giving launch funding, especially if the SNP does start a rapid collapse.
    The alternative, and the opportunity, must surely be for a devo-max, federalist Scottish party to peel away some of the Labour and Lib Dem vote (and possibly a few softer SNP voters). There hasn’t really been space for that so far. It’s been 3 strongly unionist parties and 2 separatist parties.

    Personally I see an opportunity for the Lib Dems here if we were braver, but we won’t take it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    Mr. Romford, seems a little counter-intuitive, but interesting to learn of the pact.

    The current SDP are a bit of a rum lot; there is a lineage from the Owenite crowd, but they've been on a journey to somewhere socially conservative. From wiki,

    In November 2018 the SDP gained its first and only European parliamentarian when Patrick O'Flynn, Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for East of England, defected from the UK Independence Party. He served in the European Parliament until 1 July 2019. Prominent members include journalists Rod Liddle and Giles Fraser.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    Sounds like Mark, he was never terribly forthcoming on anything.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    It’s like a non-lethal version of the old IRA tactics. I suppose it worked for them.
    At some point, these environmental terrorists are going to come up against some serious opposition, especially if the police and criminal courts continue to treat them with kid gloves.

    Perhaps it will be Barry Hearn and hundreds of civil lawsuits, perhaps it will be the Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up, or perhaps one day the police will be too slow to stop a genuine lynch mob in a public place.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    FPT

    DavidL said:

    On topic, the Raab report must be a slightly mixed bag and Sunak has to decide whether it justifies dismissal or not. Clearly, the more serious allegations have not been upheld or he would have gone yesterday. On the other hand I suspect that there are some criticisms.

    Sunak's problem is that he does not want a repeat of the Boris/Priti Patel fiasco which seriously undermined the Ministerial Code and cost an ethics advisor. On the other hand he doesn't want to give senior civil servants some sort of veto of who is in his government. And he doesn't need yet another civil service conflict either.

    My guess is that what will be announced is that Raab will undergo some training or bullying awareness course but remain in office. Sunak will be accused of being weak and indecisive but that is a price he will have to pay.

    We know for a fact that a straight up "they are a bully" report doesn't get the bully fired - Priti Patel.

    This Conservative Party has no interest in ethics and morality, so the lack of a firing yesterday says nothing at all about the report. Raab won't quit. Sunak won't fire him. Ministers defend him. Incredulity. Then aggrieved civil servants quit and start talking. Part of the report leaks, directly contradicting ministerial statements. More incredulity. then Raab is fired. Ministers claim they have acted swiftly. Even more incredulity.

    Give it time.
    Dangerous Dom or Sir Softie. Who would Putin fear most if they squared up to him?

    So what if the entire First Division of Civil Servants resigned? There are a whole raft of PB loyalists who could take up the slack if they could handle the pay cut.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Is Sunak being bullied into keeping Raab on ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    It’s like a non-lethal version of the old IRA tactics. I suppose it worked for them.
    Well, not really. They didn't get a united Ireland which is what they wanted.
    And we won’t “just stop oil”, but they are very effectively putting the topic on the table and making any new oil licences increasingly difficult to support politically.
  • Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    I listened to his interview on Sky and it was pointless as the presenter was trying to extract Sunak's decision and reasons when Sunak has not made a decision
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Taz said:

    Good Morning

    It is a bizarre turn of events where the organisers of an event that raises a huge amount of money for charity are meeting with a fringe group who are threatening to disrupt it. Said fringe group are setting their terms for not disrupting it.

    Little short of blackmail.

    "Just Stop Oil said they had met with London Marathon representatives on Wednesday and asked them to "issue a statement in support of our demand to end new oil and gas".

    In a statement they said: "The two parties have agreed to continue to discuss arrangements for the London Marathon, the climate crisis and the need to end new oil and gas."

    https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-refuses-to-rule-out-london-marathon-disruption-amid-weekend-of-protests-12861768

    As someone who broadly shares the goals of JSO, I despair at this stuff.
    It’s like a non-lethal version of the old IRA tactics. I suppose it worked for them.
    At some point, these environmental terrorists are going to come up against some serious opposition, especially if the police and criminal courts continue to treat them with kid gloves.

    Perhaps it will be Barry Hearn and hundreds of civil lawsuits, perhaps it will be the Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up, or perhaps one day the police will be too slow to stop a genuine lynch mob in a public place.
    It’s nothing new. Since the dawn of time there have been disruptive lefty agitators causing hoo has about all sorts of things, and they always come accompanied by reactionary lynch mobs too. It’s a tradition much like the bank holiday mods and rockers punch ups in Margate.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Sunak's spreadsheet must be requiring lots of debugging this morning.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    FF43 said:

    Is Sunak being bullied into keeping Raab on ?

    Rishi will deny that just as soon as he can get out of the filing cabinet he's inexplicably been locked in.
  • TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    It reminds me of the depths of the Corbyn crisis in Labour. Open speculation about a mass defection event where the majority of Labour MPs and the pre-2015 membership simply sidestep into a new party and leave the trots and entryists behind. As I understand it such conversations got quite deep into consideration.

    I agree that there is no alternative to the SNP. Green is a very different beast. And the Salmond Ego Bus would make a lot of people gip - and still not win any seats.

    The alternative to the SNP is a new SNP party. Must be some business people in Scotland susceptible to giving launch funding, especially if the SNP does start a rapid collapse.
    The alternative, and the opportunity, must surely be for a devo-max, federalist Scottish party to peel away some of the Labour and Lib Dem vote (and possibly a few softer SNP voters). There hasn’t really been space for that so far. It’s been 3 strongly unionist parties and 2 separatist parties.

    Personally I see an opportunity for the Lib Dems here if we were braver, but we won’t take it.
    Scottish Lib Dems ARE a devo-max Federalist party! The problem is that we don't seem to talk about it.

    The master plan is a federal UK, with each of the 4 home nations largely free to organise themselves as they see fit. Scotland would be master of its own destiny within a much looser UK. As the independence plan is the same but replace UK with EU, I think we could appeal to more moderate nationalists.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    On the subject of the SNP getting new auditors, I wouldn’t be surprised if they can’t find anyone.

    Intensely political, with an audited body having a large and vocal following. If you screw up the audit in either direction your company will get hammered as well. If you do your job well, you may well be hammered.

    To do the audit from zero in 6 weeks would be a big ask in a more normal situation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Tres said:

    Sunak's spreadsheet must be requiring lots of debugging this morning.

    He doesn't Excel at people management.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    It reminds me of the depths of the Corbyn crisis in Labour. Open speculation about a mass defection event where the majority of Labour MPs and the pre-2015 membership simply sidestep into a new party and leave the trots and entryists behind. As I understand it such conversations got quite deep into consideration.

    I agree that there is no alternative to the SNP. Green is a very different beast. And the Salmond Ego Bus would make a lot of people gip - and still not win any seats.

    The alternative to the SNP is a new SNP party. Must be some business people in Scotland susceptible to giving launch funding, especially if the SNP does start a rapid collapse.

    In Catalonia, the independence movement has split between constitutionalists and secessionists. The voting system there has enabled that in way it can't in Scotland (for Westminster, at least). That does not bode well for the internal harmony of the SNP, but it is surely the only game in town for those who do want indie. And a lot of Scots do.

  • All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389
  • Taz said:

    BTW nice contemporary headline

    I love that phrase, it is my new Hirohito moment.
  • Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    What including Turkey and Hungary?

    Putin must be incandescent.

    I wonder if it might actually cause him to have a stroke? That would be the ultimate act of NATO aggression I suppose...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @paulwaugh
    13s
    Mark Harper: Zahawi + Williamson quit "because the Prime Minister has high standards".

    Says "he may well have questions" to ask on the Raab report, hinting that's the reason it's not yet published.

    But to whom would he direct those Qs? Raab? The alleged victims? Tolley?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Is that not something that happens every morning?

    This smells of the BBC trying to make the news, rather than report it.
    One wonders if any of the Civil Servants who complained are friendly or ahem, friendly with somebody at BBC News.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    Latest YouGov in Times Red Box sees Labour lead by 15, so some tightening.
    Lab+LD+Green on 59. Looks like lowest SNP number for a very long time.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1649318101882642438
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    I listened to his interview on Sky and it was pointless as the presenter was trying to extract Sunak's decision and reasons when Sunak has not made a decision
    The 24 hour news round is what it is, and is bound by reality. You have to cover speculation without data, making bricks without straw.

    This is because there is no other news. There is no war in Ukraine; Sudan is at peace; millions have not died in Congo; the USA has no fascist tendency; hunger has been abolished; very dull liberal democracy prevails throughout Africa, China and Russia. Burma and North Korea are holding multi party elections.

    BTW the BBC domestic radio is covering Sudan from Johannesburg, which is further from Khartoum than London is. Is that truly the best they can do?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    So much for Putin not wanting a border with NATO. Well, the border just got a whole lot longer, and it’s going to get a lot longer again when his army gets out of Ukraine. It’s going to look like a 2,000 mile long Berlin Wall, with half of Europe’s armed forces waiting on the other side of it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up

    Yep, they are absolute nails. Killing machines.



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    .
    ydoethur said:

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    What including Turkey and Hungary?

    Putin must be incandescent.

    I wonder if it might actually cause him to have a stroke? That would be the ultimate act of NATO aggression I suppose...
    Turkey is perhaps plausible; Hungary seems unlikely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    "Now live to our political correspondent to speculate on what this non comment means. Jim?"

    "Thanks Tom. It means I'm barely a journalist."

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
    This sounds like the murky business of regeneration in areas of low land value. It is how the land is cleaned up and the economic development facilitated whilst de-risking it for the public sector. There will be great risks and potentially great rewards for the developer. There are always these associated political fireworks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up

    Yep, they are absolute nails. Killing machines.



    I never knew Boris Johnson moonlighted as a track marshal!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    In the next 20 years?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    edited April 2023
    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    ETA scooped by sandpit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    ydoethur said:

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    What including Turkey and Hungary?

    Putin must be incandescent.

    I wonder if it might actually cause him to have a stroke? That would be the ultimate act of NATO aggression I suppose...
    If, as he almost certainly does, Putin regards NATO as a threat, then bringing more of his Western boundaries up against a NATO fence might incite him to take even more drastic action.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    ydoethur said:

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    What including Turkey and Hungary?
    .
    It's not really a new development as Ukraine have been at the 'Intensified Dialog' stage of NATO accession since 2005.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    Yebbut today Rishi might actually make a decision. That's not just any other day...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    I listened to his interview on Sky and it was pointless as the presenter was trying to extract Sunak's decision and reasons when Sunak has not made a decision
    The 24 hour news round is what it is, and is bound by reality. You have to cover speculation without data, making bricks without straw.

    This is because there is no other news. There is no war in Ukraine; Sudan is at peace; millions have not died in Congo; the USA has no fascist tendency; hunger has been abolished; very dull liberal democracy prevails throughout Africa, China and Russia. Burma and North Korea are holding multi party elections.

    BTW the BBC domestic radio is covering Sudan from Johannesburg, which is further from Khartoum than London is. Is that truly the best they can do?
    Bloody home hybrid working at play.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Russia has their own version of “rapid unscheduled disassembly” today.

    Describing a bomb that fell off an Su-34 plane and exploded in the Russian town of Belegrod, the military spokesman said that “an abnormal descent of an aircraft munition” took place.

    They bombed their own city!
    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-bomb-belgorod-explosion-blast-fighter-jet-1795794
  • darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
    This sounds like the murky business of regeneration in areas of low land value. It is how the land is cleaned up and the economic development facilitated whilst de-risking it for the public sector. There will be great risks and potentially great rewards for the developer. There are always these associated political fireworks.
    The risk is being born by the taxpayer. South Tees Development Corp is doing the regeneration. Then selling the land for £1 to these blokes. Who take all the profits.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    This is not a story unless it has a clear timescale and process. At the moment it is perfectly possible that in due time Ukraine will have a 'government' which does not intend to apply to join NATO. So at the moment the question is NATO's unambiguous commitment to making sure that does not occur. This is not in place. This is called displacement or substitution activity, not news.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    A misleading practice that I have been railing against for some time.
  • Driver said:

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    A misleading practice that I have been railing against for some time.
    Sir John Curtice disagrees with you.

    Now whose judgment am I going to trust on this? You or him?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    FPT:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Excitingly, my postal voting paper (last one in the period I set up during the pandemic) has arrived, and I've received zero electoral literature whatsoever. Interestingly, there are more candidates than usual for the locals, including the SDP and Reform UK.

    We only have the four anti-resident parties, and I've only seen a leaflet from one of them. It was a pretty safe ward in 2019 though so I'm sure they're all focusing their efforts elsewhere.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    edited April 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    @techneUK
    11m
    NEW POLL: Labour lead down to 13 in Techne tracker

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 31% (+1)
    LibDem 10% (nc)
    Reform 5% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,632 questioned on 19-20 April.

    +/- 12-13 April.

    Data - technetracker.co.uk

    This is the poll I was talking about in the previous thread. Below the bonnet:

    1. More 2019 Tories returning to the Tories
    2. No Labour to Tory movement
    3. Notable 2019 Labour to LibDem movemen

    Could just be noise, but if not that point 3 looks significant ahead of the locals given the nature of the seats being contested.

    The locals are reminding voters in the Blue Wall that the LibDems are still alive and kicking, with the usual piles of LD leaflets pouring in. It may be an indication of tactical voting potential at the GE. [Edit: Apols to Southam, who I see made the point on the last thread]

    I actually think the Scottish polls are less awful for the SNP than expected. What do they have to do to fall into second place?? Presumably they have a high floor of voters who are very keen on independence and aren't interested in the Greens for one reason or another. Those voters have nowhere else to go, unless they fancy the cranky-looking Alba.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited April 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up

    Yep, they are absolute nails. Killing machines.

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/ji/no1wxvxk55x6.png" alt="" />

    If you were a nine stone wet lettuce gender studies student, would you want to be up against a dozen of these, armed with crowbars and fire extinguishers?

    Watching the video of last year’s incident, they were a damn sight more effective at clearing the idiots out of the way, than the police have been in the recent past.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0g9ck6aEU&pp
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    I listened to his interview on Sky and it was pointless as the presenter was trying to extract Sunak's decision and reasons when Sunak has not made a decision
    Whatever Sunak's decision, back or sack, it will be awesome.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    edited April 2023
    algarkirk said:

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    This is not a story unless it has a clear timescale and process. At the moment it is perfectly possible that in due time Ukraine will have a 'government' which does not intend to apply to join NATO. So at the moment the question is NATO's unambiguous commitment to making sure that does not occur. This is not in place. This is called displacement or substitution activity, not news.
    Hmmmm

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/record-83-ukrainians-want-nato-membership-poll-2022-10-03/

    When you get 83% of the country behind something that is usually the government, the opposition, the opposition to the opposition…..

    Basically everyone, apart from Piers Corbyn.

    That suggests rather strongly that no conceivable Ukrainian government would be against joining NATO.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
    This sounds like the murky business of regeneration in areas of low land value. It is how the land is cleaned up and the economic development facilitated whilst de-risking it for the public sector. There will be great risks and potentially great rewards for the developer. There are always these associated political fireworks.
    I think the point is there are great rewards and no risk for associates of Houchen. The risks are mostly held by the taxpayer, as decided by Houchen's party.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    ETA scooped by sandpit.
    Well, at least it's sparking discussion here.

    And in another major development, the BBC reports that a Labour spokesman has described Sunak as "weak".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up

    Yep, they are absolute nails. Killing machines.

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/ji/no1wxvxk55x6.png" alt="" />

    If you were a nine stone wet lettuce gender studies student, would you want to be up against a dozen of these, armed with crowbars and fire extinguishers?

    A protestor getting injured (or probably killed if a crowbar is involved) by the orange Teletubbies would be great for the cause.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    Driver said:

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    A misleading practice that I have been railing against for some time.
    Sir John Curtice disagrees with you.

    Now whose judgment am I going to trust on this? You or him?
    You complained that only giving the gross approval figure is misleading information because it's incomplete.

    I agree.

    But so is only giving the net figure. You need both to get a full picture.

    A net rating of zero at 20-20 with 60% DK is not the same as a net rating of zero at 50-50 with 0% DK.

    And if John Curtice disagrees with that, then with the greatest of respect, he's wrong.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @KuperSimon
    Even many senior Brexiteers now understand, quietly, that Brexit failed. Lots of them will probably exit government next year and never return. One day Brexit will be the first line in their obits. So how do the guilty men and women live with that? Me @FT

    https://twitter.com/KuperSimon/status/1649066544096333826
  • Chris said:

    The BBC reports that Mark Harper has refused to speculate on when something will happen.

    I listened to his interview on Sky and it was pointless as the presenter was trying to extract Sunak's decision and reasons when Sunak has not made a decision
    Whatever Sunak's decision, back or sack, it will be awesome.
    It carries risk whatever his decision is but he will have to justify it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited April 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Silverstone track marshals properly roughing them up

    Yep, they are absolute nails. Killing machines.

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/ji/no1wxvxk55x6.png" alt="" />

    Would you want one to sit on you ?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    ETA scooped by sandpit.
    on a friday? Post covid?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    Driver said:

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    A misleading practice that I have been railing against for some time.
    Sir John Curtice disagrees with you.

    Now whose judgment am I going to trust on this? You or him?
    Put it this way.

    If you only consider gross positives for a leader and ignore the netting off of their negatives, Johnson and Corbyn come out as reasonably effective leaders. Naming no names, there are people who still claim that now.

    If your model leads to a conclusion that wrong, there's something wrong with your model.

    (And maybe it would be better if everyone was honest and just voted for the candidates they liked most. But that isn't what happens- they also consider who they really don't want and how best to stop them. The problem the Conservatives have is that even if they improve their ratings to 35-40%, that still leaves 60-65% of voters, many open to voting for the best placed anti-Conservative this time round.)
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    ETA scooped by sandpit.
    Well, at least it's sparking discussion here.

    And in another major development, the BBC reports that a Labour spokesman has described Sunak as "weak".
    hearing Raab has locked Rishi in his own filing cabinet,
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited April 2023
    FF43 said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
    This sounds like the murky business of regeneration in areas of low land value. It is how the land is cleaned up and the economic development facilitated whilst de-risking it for the public sector. There will be great risks and potentially great rewards for the developer. There are always these associated political fireworks.
    I think the point is there are great rewards and no risk for associates of Houchen. The risks are mostly held by the taxpayer, as decided by Houchen's party.
    Just assessing through the vague facts as outlined above, they would presumably incur significant costs in building whatever it is they are expecting to get rent out of. This is still not going to be easy. Lots of commercial development is unviable outside of certain specific high demand locations. I would guess that building anything involves some form of de-facto subsidy.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    FPT

    Good morning

    Sunak more popular in Scotland than Yousaf !!!!!


    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1649151205371703304?t=ADa4_-H3vBdhYlKoDYP_Cg&s=19


    This is fake news, leader ratings are always reported net, not gross.

    By that metric Yousaf leads.
    Are you saying this is a fake poll

    All polls are out of date ....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    darkage said:

    FF43 said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Was it @RochdalePioneers who flagged this up ?
    Raised in the Commons.
    Teessiders are being taken for a ride.

    Public land worth £100 million was sold off for just £100.

    We need a full investigation now.

    https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/status/1649058643914940416

    Yes, I've been talking about this for a while. Local press are in bed with Houchen and not pushing him at all. But Private Eye has done enough FOI requests to uncover almost unbelievable facts:
    £450m of public money spent decontaminating the land (STDC)
    Developers hand-picked by Houchen given 90% of new Development company for £0 a share (Teesworks Ltd)
    Teesworks Ltd buys decontaminated land for £1 an acre, with right to buy more for the same.
    Teesworks thus takes all the rent from the new tenants- c. £140m
    Teesworks awards ground works contracts to companies newly set-up by their sons.

    We spend all the money. We hand the thing over to the right people for nothing. They make all the money for £0 investment or risk. We have no scrutiny or say.
    This sounds like the murky business of regeneration in areas of low land value. It is how the land is cleaned up and the economic development facilitated whilst de-risking it for the public sector. There will be great risks and potentially great rewards for the developer. There are always these associated political fireworks.
    I think the point is there are great rewards and no risk for associates of Houchen. The risks are mostly held by the taxpayer, as decided by Houchen's party.
    Just assessing through the vague facts as outlined above, they would presumably incur significant costs in building whatever it is they are expecting to get rent out of. This is still not going to be easy. Lots of commercial development is unviable outside of certain specific high demand locations. I would guess that building anything involves some form of de-facto subsidy.

    Is this in any way comparable to houses being sold for £1 with an expectation that the purchasers renovate at their own cost?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    edited April 2023
    FF43 said:

    Not close to the SNP, but think it's more likely they will sort themselves out than collapse. These are issues of governance, which are fixable. There's no real alternative to the SNP for a constituency that makes up about half of Scots.

    These are issues of party finance, which are not fixable.

    Not without anther lottery winner anyway.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    algarkirk said:

    All NATO allies have agreed that Ukraine will become a member, says secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

    https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

    This is not a story unless it has a clear timescale and process. At the moment it is perfectly possible that in due time Ukraine will have a 'government' which does not intend to apply to join NATO. So at the moment the question is NATO's unambiguous commitment to making sure that does not occur. This is not in place. This is called displacement or substitution activity, not news.
    Hmmmm

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/record-83-ukrainians-want-nato-membership-poll-2022-10-03/

    When you get 83% of the country behind something that is usually the government, the opposition, the opposition to the opposition…..

    Basically everyone, apart from Piers Corbyn.

    That suggests rather strongly that no conceivable Ukrainian government would be against joining NATO.
    This is absolutely correct except that there is a war of invasion going on, which a state hostile to NATO intends to win. So the issue right now is not whether Ukraine would join NATO when the need is no longer immediate, but how committed NATO right now is committed to the defeat of the Russians. The actual question is cloudier than the speculative one.

  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994

    Scott_xP said:

    @techneUK
    11m
    NEW POLL: Labour lead down to 13 in Techne tracker

    Lab 44% (-1)
    Con 31% (+1)
    LibDem 10% (nc)
    Reform 5% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 3% (nc)

    1,632 questioned on 19-20 April.

    +/- 12-13 April.

    Data - technetracker.co.uk

    This is the poll I was talking about in the previous thread. Below the bonnet:

    1. More 2019 Tories returning to the Tories
    2. No Labour to Tory movement
    3. Notable 2019 Labour to LibDem movemen

    Could just be noise, but if not that point 3 looks significant ahead of the locals given the nature of the seats being contested.

    The locals are reminding voters in the Blue Wall that the LibDems are still alive and kicking, with the usual piles of LD leaflets pouring in. It may be an indication of tactical voting potential at the GE. [Edit: Apols to Southam, who I see made the point on the last thread]

    I actually think the Scottish polls are less awful for the SNP than expected. What do they have to do to fall into second place?? Presumably they have a high floor of voters who are very keen on independence and aren't interested in the Greens for one reason or another. Those voters have nowhere else to go, unless they fancy the cranky-looking Alba.
    Actually did some canvassing yesterday (Misterton ward, Harborough District Council) - people pleased I had come round and a lot of "Well I'm not voting Conservative". Last time result was 432 Tory, 323 Lib Dem (me) and 70 Labour. Spent time trying to convince Labour voters to support me tactically - my "sorry I missed you" leaflet has the inevitable dodgy bar chart.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Tres said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC is now reporting that some of Sunak's aides and advisers have been gradually going into 10 Downing Street this morning.

    Where would they normally go? Is this not just people turning up for work as normal?
    ETA scooped by sandpit.
    on a friday? Post covid?
    I think by now we're all aware that Downing Street staff worked in the office even at the height of the madness.
This discussion has been closed.