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Will Liz Truss ever be able to live this down? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162
    Nigelb said:

    Is Clarence Thomas Trussed ?

    Billionaire Harlan Crow bought property from Clarence Thomas in undisclosed real estate deal.

    Crow netted two vacant lots and the house where Thomas’ elderly mother was living. It’s unclear if he paid fair market value.

    https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/1646579185131855872

    That last sentence is not right for a serious reporter.

    Either you have the evidence or you don’t. A sneaky little insinuation like that is inappropriate
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    Called it.


    He just wanted an easy slogan . No 10 is obsessed with slogans and sound bites that their arse licking right wing press can splash on their front pages .
    Enjoyable too the comments on the Heil article there. Why are we having to answer to European courts??? We left the EU!!! etc

    This is the problem. Take people who don't know anything about this. Pander to their prejudices, keep telling them things that aren't true. Then when you need them to accept something that is true they won't believe you.

    Vote ReFUK, you know it makes sense.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,394
    edited April 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 Apr)

    Con: 27% (+1 from 29-30 Mar)
    Lab: 44% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646513050588160002

    Nearly every poll is putting Lab on 44% or thereabouts.
    Of course nearly every poll could be wrong....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510

    Nigelb said:

    Is Clarence Thomas Trussed ?

    Billionaire Harlan Crow bought property from Clarence Thomas in undisclosed real estate deal.

    Crow netted two vacant lots and the house where Thomas’ elderly mother was living. It’s unclear if he paid fair market value.

    https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/1646579185131855872

    That last sentence is not right for a serious reporter.

    Either you have the evidence or you don’t. A sneaky little insinuation like that is inappropriate
    And anyway, so what? Unless he had a case before the SC what does it matter?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,394
    Plod in San Francisco have arrested a tech consultant in relation to,the fatal stabbing of a Cash App executive, which was discussed here.

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1646605997161566231?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Clarence Thomas Trussed ?

    Billionaire Harlan Crow bought property from Clarence Thomas in undisclosed real estate deal.

    Crow netted two vacant lots and the house where Thomas’ elderly mother was living. It’s unclear if he paid fair market value.

    https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/1646579185131855872

    That last sentence is not right for a serious reporter.

    Either you have the evidence or you don’t. A sneaky little insinuation like that is inappropriate
    And anyway, so what? Unless he had a case before the SC what does it matter?
    On the conflicts point I agree. Although there could be tax implications etc

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097

    Nigelb said:

    Is Clarence Thomas Trussed ?

    Billionaire Harlan Crow bought property from Clarence Thomas in undisclosed real estate deal.

    Crow netted two vacant lots and the house where Thomas’ elderly mother was living. It’s unclear if he paid fair market value.

    https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/1646579185131855872

    That last sentence is not right for a serious reporter.

    Either you have the evidence or you don’t. A sneaky little insinuation like that is inappropriate
    Nonsense.
    It should have been declared by Thomas. It’s a question that needs to be answered.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133
    "Met officers guilty over WhatsApp group mocking Katie Price’s son

    Racist, sexist, homophobic chat mocked disabled including Harvey, 20" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/met-police-officers-mocked-katie-price-s-son-on-whatsapp-9sx696ptq
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    fitalass said:

    The Courier - ANDREW LIDDLE: SNP spin machine has completely collapsed, leaving Humza Yousaf badly exposed
    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/4302943/snp-communications-andrew-liddle-liddle/

    "Instead of following either of these two courses, however, the SNP has instead opted to put Yousaf in front of the media every day, with each appearance yielding a new and more embarrassing tidbit.

    As such, the scandal is growing and evolving organically while Yousaf, far from being shielded from it, is now practically its official spokesperson."

    Ha, that is funny, to be fair.

    Well, as the continuity candidate, it comes with the territory. If he didn't know that was going to be part of it then he's even dafter than expected. Hiding from it isn't going to be any better a look...

    What'll be interesting is at what point he has enough and either quits or throws Sturgeon and Murrell properly under the bus/campervan.
    Humza Yousaf would be well advised to heed the free advice he has been given in this article. He obviously had a well planned media strategy grid laid out in an attempt to hit the ground running in his first weeks as FM, and with the hope it would give him a daily PR boost on the Scottish evening news programmes. Instead he is now popping up on those news programmes every night and having to carefully answer some very awkward questions about what he knew and when about the SNP party finances. Its not a good look.

    "In fairness to Yousaf, he recognises Sturgeon’s departure has led to something of a void in media-handling expertise at the top of the party.

    Whether he can tempt anyone to be his new chief spokesperson – even with the princely offer of £90,000 a year – remains to be seen. But it will be a tough ask.

    Signing up to work for Yousaf must be one of the few jobs in the world where your boss is more likely to get fired than you during your probation."
    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/4302943/snp-communications-andrew-liddle-liddle/
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,964

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 Apr)

    Con: 27% (+1 from 29-30 Mar)
    Lab: 44% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646513050588160002

    Nearly every poll is putting Lab on 44% or thereabouts.
    Of course nearly every poll could be wrong....
    And wrong in either direction...
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,578

    Andy_JS said:

    Not sure why, but the word "cash" appeared 2,229 times on the previous thread.

    Shows the value, really, doesn't it?
    Money isn't worth what it used to be worth. Inflation reduced the value of £1 by a factor of 22 during the reign of QEII.

    A pound at the end of her reign was worth less than eleven old pence at the beginning of it.
    You can rebaseline the currency at any time.
    Change of Monarch would have been the perfect time - have the new KCIII pounds worth ten of the old QEII pounds - but we'll have to wait for KWV now.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,394
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 Apr)

    Con: 27% (+1 from 29-30 Mar)
    Lab: 44% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646513050588160002

    Nearly every poll is putting Lab on 44% or thereabouts.
    Of course nearly every poll could be wrong....
    And wrong in either direction...
    Yes I don't trust polls. How many times have they had to change their methodologies because their results were worse than sub optimal. No doubt Labour is in the lead though.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,810

    Johnny Cash.

    Jimmy Cashless?

    "I hear that train a'comin'
    Wish that I could ride it home
    But I ain't got a ticket
    'Cause I can't charge my phone

    So I'm stuck in Euston Station
    On my way to Marylebone
    Cause I cannot get a signal
    So time just keeps draggin' on . . ."
    Very good!
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,710
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Clarence Thomas Trussed ?

    Billionaire Harlan Crow bought property from Clarence Thomas in undisclosed real estate deal.

    Crow netted two vacant lots and the house where Thomas’ elderly mother was living. It’s unclear if he paid fair market value.

    https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/1646579185131855872

    That last sentence is not right for a serious reporter.

    Either you have the evidence or you don’t. A sneaky little insinuation like that is inappropriate
    And anyway, so what? Unless he had a case before the SC what does it matter?
    Possible violations of federal ethics laws?

    As for potential interest of Harlan Crow in specific cases before the court - or rather, cases that the court decides FOR ITSELF to review - no clue.

    However, do note the following, in particular Crow's significant role with Club for Growth and American Enterprise Institute, which have interest in virtually every SCOTUS decision (and non-decision) pertaining to US economy. Which covers a LOT of ground.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_Crow
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,267
    fitalass said:

    Signing up to work for Yousaf must be one of the few jobs in the world where your boss is more likely to get fired than you during your probation."

    Signing up to work for Liz Truss is a recent example...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,964
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Forget cash - go into a bank branch (if you can find one still open), ask to do a BACS payment to another account, say no thanks I don't actually want to do it through your mobile app, and revel in the feeling of what it's like to be treated like something you scrape off the sole of your shoe.

    Australia? I assume you are Chinese.

    No - just good ol' Blighty
    Glad to hear it. Can't have us being scraped off a jackboot.
    Australia has been described as “gum stuck to the bottom of China’s shoe,” by a Chinese state media editor as Beijing criticised calls for an inquiry into the coronavirus origin as “political manoeuvring,” further straining ties.
    - Guardian, 28/4/2020

    It's from TikTok, but Australian Defence Policy summarised:

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYtxAXNy/
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,810
    Rishi says that no women have a penis but I think Jill Biden does:


  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,964
    Sandpit said:

    Called it.


    The PM does seem awfully surprised, that the voters actually expect him to stop boats crossing the Channel, rather than simply talking about stopping them, or legislating to stop them.
    None on the last 2 days.

    Not surprised with the storms around the IoW.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,810
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Called it.


    The PM does seem awfully surprised, that the voters actually expect him to stop boats crossing the Channel, rather than simply talking about stopping them, or legislating to stop them.
    None on the last 2 days.

    Not surprised with the storms around the IoW.
    Maybe Rishi should just install a giant wave machine?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 Apr)

    Con: 27% (+1 from 29-30 Mar)
    Lab: 44% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646513050588160002

    Nearly every poll is putting Lab on 44% or thereabouts.
    Of course nearly every poll could be wrong....
    And wrong in either direction...
    Yes I don't trust polls. How many times have they had to change their methodologies because their results were worse than sub optimal. No doubt Labour is in the lead though.
    They sorted most of their problems out about 10 years ago AFAIK.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510

    In case we haven't done this, a Happy 70th birthday to @Casino_Royale!

    Is that the david Niven version (as opposed to ours)?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,964

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Called it.


    The PM does seem awfully surprised, that the voters actually expect him to stop boats crossing the Channel, rather than simply talking about stopping them, or legislating to stop them.
    None on the last 2 days.

    Not surprised with the storms around the IoW.
    Maybe Rishi should just install a giant wave machine?
    Priti did look at that:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/english-channel-crossings-wave-machine-island-b1765077.html
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,394
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 Apr)

    Con: 27% (+1 from 29-30 Mar)
    Lab: 44% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    SNP: 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646513050588160002

    Nearly every poll is putting Lab on 44% or thereabouts.
    Of course nearly every poll could be wrong....
    And wrong in either direction...
    Yes I don't trust polls. How many times have they had to change their methodologies because their results were worse than sub optimal. No doubt Labour is in the lead though.
    They sorted most of their problems out about 10 years ago AFAIK.
    Until the next debacle....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What a great story that was.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616
    DavidL said:

    In case we haven't done this, a Happy 70th birthday to @Casino_Royale!

    Is that the david Niven version (as opposed to ours)?
    Actually, it's the original Ian Fleming novel!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    Senior Conservatives hit out at Suella Braverman’s ‘racist rhetoric’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/senior-conservatives-hit-out-at-suella-bravermans-racist-rhetoric
    More senior Conservatives have hit out at Suella Braverman’s “racist rhetoric”, accusing her of undermining the party for the sake of her own leadership ambitions.

    Pressure was mounting on Rishi Sunak on Thursday to intervene to protect the party’s reputation after the home secretary stoked renewed anger by criticising police for confiscating a set of racist dolls displayed in an Essex pub.

    Tory MPs, peers and activists have accused Braverman of inflaming racial tensions on a number of occasions over the past few months, saying they are worried that she is now at risk of repelling the kinds of swing voters the party is desperate to retain.

    A former senior minister from Boris Johnson’s government told the Guardian they believed Braverman was a “real racist bigot”.

    The person said “the country is not as grotesque as she makes it out to be”, warning that the “Conservative reputation on discrimination has dropped to a new low” under her watch – “which also gives the country a bad name”.…
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    O/T @Richard_Tyndall @Morris_Dancer I'm enjoying Harry Sidebottom's book on Heliogalabus, the mad emperor.

    I can see why it has proved contentious in some quarters, as he takes quite a few pot shots at politically correct pseudo historical fantasies about Rome.

    1. Rome was definitely not a gay paradise. No one thought about gay or straight. The essential distinction was active/passive. Men were active, women were passive. A man who submitted to buggery, or who performed oral sex was a disgrace, because he was acting like a woman.

    2. Racism most definitely existed in Rome. Colour prejudice did not, but only because there were very few black people in the Roman Empire. Racial hatred can exist quite independently of colour prejudice.

    3. Elite Roman pagans truly believed in their religion. They were not tolerant sceptics, who privately thought it was all nonsense as Gibbon claimed. Gibbon, like so many, projected his own fantasies on to the Roman Empire.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044
    edited April 2023
    Reports on Henley Group Children's Homes makes horrific reading.
    The kind of stuff that a LA care home or school would be castigated for for decades.
    But hey. They're a private, profit making company so they'll still be automatically accepted as the lowest bid for 'caring for' vulnerable kids and adults.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133
    edited April 2023
    Newsnight leading on diabetes, and the fact it seems to be increasing.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Nigelb said:

    Senior Conservatives hit out at Suella Braverman’s ‘racist rhetoric’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/senior-conservatives-hit-out-at-suella-bravermans-racist-rhetoric
    More senior Conservatives have hit out at Suella Braverman’s “racist rhetoric”, accusing her of undermining the party for the sake of her own leadership ambitions.

    Pressure was mounting on Rishi Sunak on Thursday to intervene to protect the party’s reputation after the home secretary stoked renewed anger by criticising police for confiscating a set of racist dolls displayed in an Essex pub.

    Tory MPs, peers and activists have accused Braverman of inflaming racial tensions on a number of occasions over the past few months, saying they are worried that she is now at risk of repelling the kinds of swing voters the party is desperate to retain.

    A former senior minister from Boris Johnson’s government told the Guardian they believed Braverman was a “real racist bigot”.

    The person said “the country is not as grotesque as she makes it out to be”, warning that the “Conservative reputation on discrimination has dropped to a new low” under her watch – “which also gives the country a bad name”.…

    Based upon the time I spent living and socialising there, I would say that Suella Braverman's views are entirely uncontentious amongst the voters of Kenton, and Queensbury, where she grew up. Rather like Red Wall voters, they've suddenly realised that they have nothing in common with Labour.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,081

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    edited April 2023
    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,023
    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight leading on diabetes, and the fact it seems to be increasing.

    The most important story of the day.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Senior Conservatives hit out at Suella Braverman’s ‘racist rhetoric’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/senior-conservatives-hit-out-at-suella-bravermans-racist-rhetoric
    More senior Conservatives have hit out at Suella Braverman’s “racist rhetoric”, accusing her of undermining the party for the sake of her own leadership ambitions.

    Pressure was mounting on Rishi Sunak on Thursday to intervene to protect the party’s reputation after the home secretary stoked renewed anger by criticising police for confiscating a set of racist dolls displayed in an Essex pub.

    Tory MPs, peers and activists have accused Braverman of inflaming racial tensions on a number of occasions over the past few months, saying they are worried that she is now at risk of repelling the kinds of swing voters the party is desperate to retain.

    A former senior minister from Boris Johnson’s government told the Guardian they believed Braverman was a “real racist bigot”.

    The person said “the country is not as grotesque as she makes it out to be”, warning that the “Conservative reputation on discrimination has dropped to a new low” under her watch – “which also gives the country a bad name”.…

    Based upon the time I spent living and socialising there, I would say that Suella Braverman's views are entirely uncontentious amongst the voters of Kenton, and Queensbury, where she grew up. Rather like Red Wall voters, they've suddenly realised that they have nothing in common with Labour.
    I’m just waiting for Tory PBers to explain to me, in the near future, why Sunak was right to sack her.

    We’ll see.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,661
    Dura_Ace said:

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
    Because it's what his audience wanted to hear.

    Cosplay Johnson. With better personal ethics, thank goodness, but less elegance or chutzpah and the same underlying process
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,035
    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Senior Conservatives hit out at Suella Braverman’s ‘racist rhetoric’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/senior-conservatives-hit-out-at-suella-bravermans-racist-rhetoric
    More senior Conservatives have hit out at Suella Braverman’s “racist rhetoric”, accusing her of undermining the party for the sake of her own leadership ambitions.

    Pressure was mounting on Rishi Sunak on Thursday to intervene to protect the party’s reputation after the home secretary stoked renewed anger by criticising police for confiscating a set of racist dolls displayed in an Essex pub.

    Tory MPs, peers and activists have accused Braverman of inflaming racial tensions on a number of occasions over the past few months, saying they are worried that she is now at risk of repelling the kinds of swing voters the party is desperate to retain.

    A former senior minister from Boris Johnson’s government told the Guardian they believed Braverman was a “real racist bigot”.

    The person said “the country is not as grotesque as she makes it out to be”, warning that the “Conservative reputation on discrimination has dropped to a new low” under her watch – “which also gives the country a bad name”.…

    Based upon the time I spent living and socialising there, I would say that Suella Braverman's views are entirely uncontentious amongst the voters of Kenton, and Queensbury, where she grew up. Rather like Red Wall voters, they've suddenly realised that they have nothing in common with Labour.
    I’m just waiting for Tory PBers to explain to me, in the near future, why Sunak was right to sack her.

    We’ll see.
    I couldn't care less if he does or not. But, she's not an outlier.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Dura_Ace said:

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
    It is bizarre. He's not dumb (tho I did hear some surprising gossip about him, today)

    My only guess is that they find it impossible to say "actually there's very little we can do, the boats will keep coming", so they reckon a ridiculous over-promise followed by a sotto voce retraction several weeks later is less politically damaging
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    Reports on Henley Group Children's Homes makes horrific reading.
    The kind of stuff that a LA care home or school would be castigated for for decades.
    But hey. They're a private, profit making company so they'll still be automatically accepted as the lowest bid for 'caring for' vulnerable kids and adults.

    Agreed. Whether someone is LA or private is not the point. It's their actions that count.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight leading on diabetes, and the fact it seems to be increasing.

    The most important story of the day.
    And apparently can be sent into remission by seriously adhered to dieting.
    https://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2021/06/dietreversesdiabetesandlowersbloodpressure/
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    Clarence Thomas is a crook and you are a troll.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
  • Options
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Dura_Ace said:

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
    Can't really understand it at all. Leon's point that they cannot say there is little they can do is true, but in the past they've always talked tough, and eventually that has been enough when things quiten down on their own. Even if they were worried that would no longer work, a specific promise that obviously would not happen was the wrong move.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Senior Conservatives hit out at Suella Braverman’s ‘racist rhetoric’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/senior-conservatives-hit-out-at-suella-bravermans-racist-rhetoric
    More senior Conservatives have hit out at Suella Braverman’s “racist rhetoric”, accusing her of undermining the party for the sake of her own leadership ambitions.

    Pressure was mounting on Rishi Sunak on Thursday to intervene to protect the party’s reputation after the home secretary stoked renewed anger by criticising police for confiscating a set of racist dolls displayed in an Essex pub.

    Tory MPs, peers and activists have accused Braverman of inflaming racial tensions on a number of occasions over the past few months, saying they are worried that she is now at risk of repelling the kinds of swing voters the party is desperate to retain.

    A former senior minister from Boris Johnson’s government told the Guardian they believed Braverman was a “real racist bigot”.

    The person said “the country is not as grotesque as she makes it out to be”, warning that the “Conservative reputation on discrimination has dropped to a new low” under her watch – “which also gives the country a bad name”.…

    Based upon the time I spent living and socialising there, I would say that Suella Braverman's views are entirely uncontentious amongst the voters of Kenton, and Queensbury, where she grew up. Rather like Red Wall voters, they've suddenly realised that they have nothing in common with Labour.
    I’m just waiting for Tory PBers to explain to me, in the near future, why Sunak was right to sack her.

    We’ll see.
    I couldn't care less if he does or not. But, she's not an outlier.
    She’s an outlier on what has hitherto been acceptable public discourse from a politician, whatever voters in Kenton apparently think.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    edited April 2023

    Dura_Ace said:

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
    Because it's what his audience wanted to hear.

    Cosplay Johnson. With better personal ethics, thank goodness, but less elegance or chutzpah and the same underlying process
    He also said a surprising amount of guff during his failed leadership campaign.

    We’ve normalised it, because, you know, Tories these days, but personally I have not forgotten.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What an incredible story, and to wait so long to tell it.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    On topic, Liz Truss will never be allowed to get over the fact that she had a bunch of folk on here lose a 250/1 payout. Petty, vindictive people who are bad losers. Expect many more such threads for years to come.

    (Actually, I suspect the bookies signed up lots of new "Conservative members" to vote for her - and prevent the payout on Rishi. It's a scandal. There should be a thread on it....)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Nothing will happen to Thomas, of course, but it has been slightly amusing to see a judge - and one of the most senior in the land - attempt a politician's "I'm just really stupid" defence about not understanding the rules, which you'd think would be a bit more difficult for those of ostensibly fine legal minds, used to wrangling complex issues of rules and ethics.

    Roberts seems to be living in a different world to the rest of us I think.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    Clarence Thomas is a crook and you are a troll.
    So is Joe Biden in all probability but you can't accept that fact because he's on your side.

    Thomas may be a crook. Happy to accept that. Unlike you who can't accept that anyone on your side is probably on the take as well.

    You are a partisan hack. Simple as that.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Dura_Ace said:

    Called it.


    Why the fuck did he say it? Even his cringiest fans on here knew it wasn't going to happen
    Because it's what his audience wanted to hear.
    Not really. The audience want to hear very tough talk, and ideally they would like concrete action to follow it up. But they'll take the former when they cannot get the latter, and time and again the public show vague overpromises work. Specific pledges the public gets mad about not being achieved.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044
    Well. I see Peng Shuai isn't as important as $12 million in prize money.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    It's a very bad sign when people so hate their country, they'll side with its enemies against the other faction.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    I can be worried about more than one thing. If Biden did bad stuff he should face consequences for that. It's still funny that a man of undoubted intellectual rigour apparently had no clue about basic rules of declarations and a curious lack of curiosity about it to boot.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    Clarence Thomas is a crook and you are a troll.
    So is Joe Biden in all probability but you can't accept that fact because he's on your side.

    Thomas may be a crook. Happy to accept that. Unlike you who can't accept that anyone on your side is probably on the take as well.

    You are a partisan hack. Simple as that.
    In what way is Joe Biden a crook?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    Clarence Thomas is a crook and you are a troll.
    So is Joe Biden in all probability but you can't accept that fact because he's on your side.

    Thomas may be a crook. Happy to accept that. Unlike you who can't accept that anyone on your side is probably on the take as well.

    You are a partisan hack. Simple as that.
    To the extent I have a side, it’s liberal in the British sense.

    I haven’t seen anything to suggest Biden is personally on the take. Provide some evidence or troll off.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,943
    On topic: Liz will never be Con leader/PM again but she could be a player in the future for example in a shadow Con cabinet or a future Con government (preferably behind the scenes rather than in the public eye)
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    I can be worried about more than one thing. If Biden did bad stuff he should face consequences for that. It's still funny that a man of undoubted intellectual rigour apparently had no clue about basic rules of declarations and a curious lack of curiosity about it to boot.
    Oh, I think Thomas has questions to answer, no doubt about that.

    But if he did step down, the Democrats wouldn't do the same if one of their members conducted themselves in the same way. They would come up with all sorts of excuses as to why it was different.

    And there in lies the problem. I think Thomas needs to answer for his actions. But quite frankly, why should he when the other side takes the piss and then claims the moral high ground?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    It's a very bad sign when people so hate their country, they'll side with its enemies against the other faction.
    Totally agree but that is what has happened with the States - and if you go back in history, it was the Democrats who set the ball rolling.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    Sean_F said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    It's a very bad sign when people so hate their country, they'll side with its enemies against the other faction.
    Totally agree but that is what has happened with the States - and if you go back in history, it was the Democrats who set the ball rolling.
    What a juvenile post. Not worthy of PB. Stick to below the line at the Daily Mail.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Look, we know you don't like Thomas. That's fine but, quite frankly, he's going nowhere. And if you get excised about this sort of stuff, it's looking more and more like the Prez was taking some extra-curricula cash when he was VP. I'd be more worried about that.
    Clarence Thomas is a crook and you are a troll.
    So is Joe Biden in all probability but you can't accept that fact because he's on your side.

    Thomas may be a crook. Happy to accept that. Unlike you who can't accept that anyone on your side is probably on the take as well.

    You are a partisan hack. Simple as that.
    To the extent I have a side, it’s liberal in the British sense.

    I haven’t seen anything to suggest Biden is personally on the take. Provide some evidence or troll off.
    Stop trying to present yourself as some sort of neutral party. You are not, you are biased, you are partisan and indeed you are a troll yourself.

    It's increasingly evident Biden lied about what he knew about his son's activities. We heard the bollocks about it wasn't his son's laptop, it was a Russian smear campaign, Joe is such a good guy - all BS spread my people like you.

    It's very simple re the evidence. Let's take the same accusations levelled at Biden and HB, and switch the names round to Donald Trump Jr and DJT. You'd be screaming on here about corruption, impeachment etc etc

    As I said, you are a partisan hack. Nothing more and nothing less.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending


    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    It's a very bad sign when people so hate their country, they'll side with its enemies against the other faction.
    Totally agree but that is what has happened with the States - and if you go back in history, it was the Democrats who set the ball rolling.
    What a juvenile post. Not worthy of PB. Stick to below the line at the Daily Mail.
    "Not worthy of PB."

    Look at this. We have the supreme censor himself who is so stuck his own arse. Quite hilarious.




  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    I can't help thinking the problem with the United States is their ingrained puritanical attitude to everything, and that applies just as much to the left as the right. They seem to find it incredibly difficult to ever admit that someone on the other side might be right.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    edited April 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time


    ++++++

    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    "American IQ Scores Have Rapidly Dropped, Proving the 'Reverse Flynn Effect'"

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a43469569/american-iq-scores-decline-reverse-flynn-effect/


    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us

    If there is a new American Civil War, I reckon it will be close. Whoever is in charge of the AI will perhaps emerge victorious. That might, of course, be the AI itself, overtaking stupid humans
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time

    Mmmmm, not sure that is as positive as you think. It's not just whether people are young or not, it's what they think.

    I hate to break this to you but some young people are conservative. And they are more likely to join the military and / or have guns.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    I think it is clear there is only one real neutral here.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,044
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time

    ++++++

    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    "American IQ Scores Have Rapidly Dropped, Proving the 'Reverse Flynn Effect'"

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a43469569/american-iq-scores-decline-reverse-flynn-effect/


    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us

    If there is a new American Civil War, I reckon it will be close. Whoever is in charge of the AI will perhaps emerge victorious. That might, of course, be the AI itself, overtaking stupid humans


    Not convinced by that somewhat flimsy retort.
    However. The idea that releasing shedloads of classified documents to your gamer mates would awaken them to an alt-rigjt paradise rather than decades in maximum security does tend to add some weight to your view.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,398
    No. Nor should the Tory Party ever be able to live Liz Truss down.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    I can't help thinking the problem with the United States is their ingrained puritanical attitude to everything, and that applies just as much to the left as the right. They seem to find it incredibly difficult to ever admit that someone on the other side might be right.
    It cannot be that ingrained if the situation has gotten appreciably worse, rather than be the norm.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time

    ++++++

    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    "American IQ Scores Have Rapidly Dropped, Proving the 'Reverse Flynn Effect'"

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a43469569/american-iq-scores-decline-reverse-flynn-effect/


    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us

    If there is a new American Civil War, I reckon it will be close. Whoever is in charge of the AI will perhaps emerge victorious. That might, of course, be the AI itself, overtaking stupid humans
    Not convinced by that somewhat flimsy retort.
    However. The idea that releasing shedloads of classified documents to your gamer mates would awaken them to an alt-rigjt paradise rather than decades in maximum security does tend to add some weight to your view.

    ++++


    It's one of the biggest ever investigations into the Reverse Flynn Effect (ie falling IQs). Anywhere in the world

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/03/230320102056.htm

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11841169/IQ-scores-dropped-time-nearly-100-years.html

    IQ Scores In The US Have Recently Dropped For First Time This Century
    The biggest drop was found among younger people aged 18 to 22.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190

    I just farted.

    Breaking news....
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,217
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But let's not kid ourselves, the opposite side of the coin applies. If he was a transgender-supporting, CRT believer, he'd sell out his country too. Each side believes they have the monopoly on truth and that therefore justifies their actions
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    But the American Left is just as bad, constantly telling white Americans that they are intrinsically evil, soaked in racism, must pay $3 trillion a year in reparations for slavery, and, oh, by the way we are going to bring up your kids so they are deeply sexually confused weirdos who think they might be stuffed toys, and who will hate you - because you're racist, etc etc

    Why should a Republican swear loyalty to a country that does and says that?
    Because it's their country?
    If they disagree so radically become a dissident and go to jail.
    Don't take a cushy military job for the regime you detest.
    Because whoever is in charge of the military will win the inevitable civil war, into which America is descending
    False thinking. Whoever is in charge of the military is irrelevant in a Civil War.
    The military voted for Biden. They are young. Whenever it comes to a shooting fight young beat old every time

    ++++++

    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    "American IQ Scores Have Rapidly Dropped, Proving the 'Reverse Flynn Effect'"

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a43469569/american-iq-scores-decline-reverse-flynn-effect/


    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us

    If there is a new American Civil War, I reckon it will be close. Whoever is in charge of the AI will perhaps emerge victorious. That might, of course, be the AI itself, overtaking stupid humans
    Not convinced by that somewhat flimsy retort.
    However. The idea that releasing shedloads of classified documents to your gamer mates would awaken them to an alt-rigjt paradise rather than decades in maximum security does tend to add some weight to your view.

    As predicted by Idiocracy.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    .
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Nothing will happen to Thomas, of course,..
    I don’t know about that.
    In this case he has very clearly broken the law which requires disclosure of financial transactions, without even the threadbare excuses he earlier offered for not reporting the lavish hospitality of his “dear friend” Crow.

    The Supreme Court is suffering a crisis of credibility as it is. They can’t ignore one of their fellow justices breaking the law.

    I think there is now at least a reasonable chance he will be forced to resign.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    Leon said:



    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us…

    Says the guy who can’t even handle blockquotes.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133
    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:



    Yeah but they are Woke idiots with literally lower IQs

    If people aged 15-30 seem remarkably dim, then this is why. It is TRUE. The young are thicker than us…

    Says the guy who can’t even handle blockquotes.
    I think you will find it is @dixiedean who is fucking up the blockquotes
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    Andy_JS said:

    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record

    Today the US accounts for 58% of the G7’s GDP, compared with 40% in 1990.

    That is fairly remarkable.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Nigelb said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Nothing will happen to Thomas, of course,..
    I don’t know about that.
    In this case he has very clearly broken the law which requires disclosure of financial transactions, without even the threadbare excuses he earlier offered for not reporting the lavish hospitality of his “dear friend” Crow.

    The Supreme Court is suffering a crisis of credibility as it is. They can’t ignore one of their fellow justices breaking the law.

    I think there is now at least a reasonable chance he will be forced to resign.

    That would be fun to see the parties switch positions again about appointing in the latter part of a President's term.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Andy_JS said:

    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record

    The big get bigger.

    Too late for us to join as the 51st state?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,097
    The Tennessee GOP are remarkably stupid.
    Had they not expelled a couple of powerless Democrats from the Republican dominated state house, thereby drawing national attention to their state politics, they could probably have continued their grift unnoticed, almost indefinitely.

    Tennessee House Speaker @CSexton25 secretly bought a 600K home in Nashville

    He went to extensive efforts to shield the purchase from the public

    It raises serious Qs about whether Sexton legally represents his district and whether he is misusing taxpayer funds…

    https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1646631466023960582
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,545
    After his time as vice president, Penn paid Joe Biden almost a million dollars for not very much work:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-professor-university-pennsylvania/

    After he became president, Biden named Penn president Amy Gutmann ambassador to Germany:
    http://www.thedp.com/article/2022/02/gutmann-confirmed-ambassador-germany-penn

    Were either of these illegal? Probably not. Does the combination pose ethical problems? You can decide that for yourself.

    (While teaching at Princeton, Gutmann founded an "ethics" center, which will reassure some people, and make others more suspicious.)

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Eh, I'm sure it'll work out fine. It's not as though if you talk to most people they will say they don't want local house building targets either.

    Rishi Sunak says having spoken to loads of Tory members, councillors and activists it's clear no one wants national house building targets. Ok but what about the millions of people who aren't Tory members and want to own a home one day....

    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1646486923785957376?cxt=HHwWgMCzucfIv9ktAAAA
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record

    Today the US accounts for 58% of the G7’s GDP, compared with 40% in 1990.

    That is fairly remarkable.
    It's a stunningly stupid statistic, because America is so much bigger than its G7 peers, and because the G7 no longer remotely represents global economic power (and since 1990 much of the G7 has coalesced into the EU anyway)

    The true measure of America's strength is its proportion of GLOBAL GDP. In 1945 it was probably around 50%. Tho that was a unique moment. As late as the Clinton era it was around 30-35%, still highly impressive

    Now, on PPP, the USA is just 15.2% and this will slowly decline in coming years and decades

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/270267/united-states-share-of-global-gross-domestic-product-gdp/#:~:text=United States share of global gross domestic product (GDP) 2027&text=In 2021, the United States,seventh of the global total.

    It is no longer a hyperpower, it is at best first among equals (China is already bigger in GDP by PPP and China is a much bigger trading power than the USA)

    And then when you look at life expectancy, or, say, infant mortality:


    "The United States has the highest infant and maternal mortality rates out of any other high-income country and simultaneously spends the most on health care, according to a report released Tuesday by the Commonwealth Fund."

    https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mortality-rates-despite-the-most-health-care-spending
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,775
    A
    Nigelb said:

    .

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Details of the latest Thomas revelation.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus

    Note he was legally obliged to declare the property transaction, and didn’t.
    And the purchase price was significantly greater than Crow paid for similar properties on the same street a year later.

    Note that the two only became “dearest friends” after Thomas’s appointment to the Supreme Court.

    This is a judge, remember, not a politician.
    A distinction of which the senior Justice is fond of reminding us.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122205320/chief-justice-john-roberts-defends-the-supreme-court-as-peoples-confidence-waver
    …When asked to reflect on the last year at the court in his first public appearance since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Roberts said Friday he was concerned that lately some critics of the court's controversial decisions have questioned the legitimacy of the court, which he said was a mistake. He did not mention any specific cases or critics by name.

    "If the court doesn't retain its legitimate function of interpreting the constitution, I'm not sure who would take up that mantle. You don't want the political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide about what the appropriate decision is," Roberts said
    while being interviewed by two judges from the Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at its conference in Colorado Springs...

    Nothing will happen to Thomas, of course,..
    I don’t know about that.
    In this case he has very clearly broken the law which requires disclosure of financial transactions, without even the threadbare excuses he earlier offered for not reporting the lavish hospitality of his “dear friend” Crow.

    The Supreme Court is suffering a crisis of credibility as it is. They can’t ignore one of their fellow justices breaking the law.

    I think there is now at least a reasonable chance he will be forced to resign.

    Nope - he will hang on. Because the Supreme Court is now the unelected third chamber of the Legislature.

    Which means keeping as many judges as possible is priority 1 for Republicans and Democrats alike.

    How will he be forced to resign?
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,262
    MJW said:

    No. Nor should the Tory Party ever be able to live Liz Truss down.

    Bigger fuck-up: Truss or Corbyn?

    She was actually PM, which must be the biggest single factor. But if you add up all the Corbyn craziness does it, taken together, top Truss?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,211
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record

    The big get bigger.

    Too late for us to join as the 51st state?
    To think we were assured on here by @seanT that America is in terminal decline and the future is entirely Chinese.

    I had long debates with him about it.

    If only he was around these days to concede the point, he’d do so with elan.

    Forever the gentleman, always the scholar.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    I see that Anas Sarwar spent the last fews days in the Western Isles with the Scottish Labour candidate Torquil Crichton, I think that Labour will gain this seat from the SNP at the next GE.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,545
    kle4 said: "The big get bigger.

    Too late for us to join as the 51st state?"

    (If you choose to go that route, I would suggest at least 4 states. At least.

    Less difficult might be joining NAFTA, though that would require a name change.

    Historical note: Your idea has at least one historical precedent:
    https://www.amazon.com/Union-Now-Britain-Clarence-Streit/dp/B0006D7F9A )
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,211
    carnforth said:

    MJW said:

    No. Nor should the Tory Party ever be able to live Liz Truss down.

    Bigger fuck-up: Truss or Corbyn?

    She was actually PM, which must be the biggest single factor. But if you add up all the Corbyn craziness does it, taken together, top Truss?
    It’s THE Truss to you.

    Mother.

    Lover.

    Messiah.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,268
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    errm a 21 year old is arrested for leaking very sensitive documents about a live war- Does the US really allow 21 year olds access to stuff they dont want the russians to know ?

    During the Second World War we allowed teenagers at Bletchley Park to handle sensitive documents.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50840818
    What I guess is interesting/disturbing with this is the death of true patriotism in the US. This guy’s loyalty is to a brand of conservatism. He is not interested in the idea of a USA as the home of multiple ideologies and viewpoints to which all can be loyal and of which all can hope to be proud. In fact, he’ll happily sell that out in service of his qAnon derived worldview.

    Fact is, a lot of this has been stoked by Trump’s absolutism, supplemented by the atomisation of media, creating an ideological norm of (basically) fascism which a huge minority Americans will brook no deviation from.

    I kind of hope we’re in a better place than that as a country.

    he'll be pardoned by whoever is the next republican president
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,133
    fitalass said:

    I see that Anas Sarwar spent the last fews days in the Western Isles with the Scottish Labour candidate Torquil Crichton, I think that Labour will gain this seat from the SNP at the next GE.

    It's one of the most socially conservative seats in the UK, so you'd think the SNP's current policies wouldn't go down particularly well there.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

    The world’s biggest economy is leaving its peers ever further in the dust"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/04/13/the-lessons-from-americas-astonishing-economic-record

    The big get bigger.

    Too late for us to join as the 51st state?
    To think we were assured on here by @seanT that America is in terminal decline and the future is entirely Chinese.

    I had long debates with him about it.

    If only he was around these days to concede the point, he’d do so with elan.

    Forever the gentleman, always the scholar.
    It's just bullshit

    By PPP, according to the IMF, China represents 18.92% of the global economy. The USA represents 15.39%. It is already SMALLER


    https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPSH@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD

    Nominal GDP is more flattering to the USA but the trend is the same:


    "The U.S. share of the global economy has nearly halved since 1960
    America’s nominal GDP in current U.S. dollars is $21.4 trillion, or about 24% of the share of the global economy"

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-share-of-global-economy-over-time/


    But yes, America is doing better if you compare it to Italy
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    kle4 said: "The big get bigger.

    Too late for us to join as the 51st state?"

    (If you choose to go that route, I would suggest at least 4 states. At least.

    Less difficult might be joining NAFTA, though that would require a name change.

    Historical note: Your idea has at least one historical precedent:
    https://www.amazon.com/Union-Now-Britain-Clarence-Streit/dp/B0006D7F9A )

    I assumed the formal process began once the UK finally gets its own NFL team.
This discussion has been closed.