Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.
In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.
He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.
But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
Berlusconi came to power before Netanyahu, 1994, Netanyahu only first came to power in 1996
Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.
Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.
It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.
Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
It is a public accounts committee.
Of course, Llafur never admit fraud. That is why Wales (uniquely in the UK) has no proper inquiry into the handling of Covid by its government. It is also why the Senedd (uniquely in the UK) has no register of lobbyists.
No doubt today will be mainly about Scotland.
The real achievement of Salmond & Sturgeon has -- in my opinion -- been to show the Scottish people that an alternative to corrupt and insular Labour rule in Holyrood was possible.
Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales because of this.
that alternative being corrupt and insular SNP ?
There is some corruption in all parties that attain power. I am not aware of any evidence that the SNP are particularly corrupt.
However, the point of course is that the SNP provided a viable alternative.
In Wales, Llafur have been in power since 1999. And the one-party state shows no sign of ending.
That is bad. Bad for Wales and bad for Llafur and bad for competent Government.
As I will crawl through St Brides Major at 20mph in a few minutes time, most likely to be met by a police motorcyclist with a hand held speed camera hidden in the hedge in the open countryside on Wick Road, so I can only agree, I detest Drakeford and his fellow travellers. Then I visualise the bloviated gammon that is Andrew RT Davies, and tightly policed 20mph zones don't seem so terrible after all.
Very surprised we’re not getting more coverage of events in Israel as the country’s democracy stands on the verge of collapse. Looks like a familiar tale: yet another hard right, populist, nationalist seeking to subvert the rule of law in order to escape scrutiny and thwart opposition. But it seems as if the Israeli people aren’t having it. Good on them.
It’s notable that when Netanyahu was in London last week Suella Braverman was the only minister happy to be seen in public with him. Peas in a pod.
Netanyahu is testing to extremes the concept that populist politicians should be above the law. His proposed debasement of the legal system is laughably transparent, so much so that its seen as a step too far even by the kind of people who have supported him this far.
I suspect that the lack of coverage is because Israel is seen almost as a taboo subject. Where I agreed with the hard left in Labour was that criticism of the Israeli government and its policies isn't anti-semitic. Their harassment of British jews who were Labour members over the actions of a foreign government *was* anti-semitic but never mind.
So the approach is to give the Israelis a free pass no matter how nuts their government is. We should be free to call it out as we can any government. But can't because too many nutters think the proportionate response to Netanyahu is to remove Israel from the map...
I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.
In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.
He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.
But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
hmmm
posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?
there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.
That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'
But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
Imo this was all to do with the so called Third Way when chancers took over the left and left their traditional supporters behind. Eventually they disenfranchised a chunk of their own base. All summed ny Mr Mandelson who didnt mind people getting filthy rich and who thought traditional labour supporters had nowhere else to go.
When they got tired of sucking it up it turned out they did have other places to go.
That's a symptom of it, rather than a cause.
Ultimately, the economic and nationalist forces unleashed in the 1980s and amplified by the development of the internet tended to favour (a) the ones who already had wealth, to the considerable disadvantage of those who didn't and (b) demagogues who mastered catchy soundbites and offered simple solutions to all our ills ahead of detailed, reasoned analysis. A toxic mix in the aftermath of an economic contraction.
What's slightly unusual about Netanyahu is how early he was in the field. And that may be due to the peculiar circumstances of Israel, and it may be due to him being rather more plausible and effective than the rest.
Snag is he's actually worse than most of them as well.
Id say it was changes in the 90s rather than the 80s. The single biggest event was the collapse of communism and all that that unleashed. Suddenly socialism didnt look so inevitable and left in general ditched the economic arguments and went off in a "social change " direction. This suited "progressive" middle class types but meant the lumpen proles got shoved to the back of the class and ignored as a socially conservative embarassment.
Very surprised we’re not getting more coverage of events in Israel as the country’s democracy stands on the verge of collapse. Looks like a familiar tale: yet another hard right, populist, nationalist seeking to subvert the rule of law in order to escape scrutiny and thwart opposition. But it seems as if the Israeli people aren’t having it. Good on them.
It’s notable that when Netanyahu was in London last week Suella Braverman was the only minister happy to be seen in public with him. Peas in a pod.
Netanyahu is testing to extremes the concept that populist politicians should be above the law. His proposed debasement of the legal system is laughably transparent, so much so that its seen as a step too far even by the kind of people who have supported him this far.
I suspect that the lack of coverage is because Israel is seen almost as a taboo subject. Where I agreed with the hard left in Labour was that criticism of the Israeli government and its policies isn't anti-semitic. Their harassment of British jews who were Labour members over the actions of a foreign government *was* anti-semitic but never mind.
So the approach is to give the Israelis a free pass no matter how nuts their government is. We should be free to call it out as we can any government. But can't because too many nutters think the proportionate response to Netanyahu is to remove Israel from the map...
The debasement of the legal system is also a political objective of his extreme right coalition partners.
I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.
In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.
He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.
But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
hmmm
posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?
there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.
That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'
But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
Imo this was all to do with the so called Third Way when chancers took over the left and left their traditional supporters behind. Eventually they disenfranchised a chunk of their own base. All summed ny Mr Mandelson who didnt mind people getting filthy rich and who thought traditional labour supporters had nowhere else to go.
When they got tired of sucking it up it turned out they did have other places to go.
That's a symptom of it, rather than a cause.
Ultimately, the economic and nationalist forces unleashed in the 1980s and amplified by the development of the internet tended to favour (a) the ones who already had wealth, to the considerable disadvantage of those who didn't and (b) demagogues who mastered catchy soundbites and offered simple solutions to all our ills ahead of detailed, reasoned analysis. A toxic mix in the aftermath of an economic contraction.
What's slightly unusual about Netanyahu is how early he was in the field. And that may be due to the peculiar circumstances of Israel, and it may be due to him being rather more plausible and effective than the rest.
Snag is he's actually worse than most of them as well.
Id say it was changes in the 90s rather than the 80s. The single biggest event was the collapse of communism and all that that unleashed. Suddenly socialism didnt look so inevitable and left in general ditched the economic arguments and went off in a "social change " direction. This suited "progressive" middle class types but meant the lumpen proles got shoved to the back of the class and ignored as a socially conservative embarassment.
Indeed in the 1970s and 1980s the most educated and highest earning and the middle classes mostly voted for centre right parties across the western world and the working classes mostly voted for centre left parties.
Since the mid 1990s and especially in the last decade or so however the white working class in particular voted more for conservative parties while graduates increasingly vote for liberal or left of centre parties
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
It's an issue inasmuch that there are loons out there suggesting there are 64 genders....
I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.
In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.
He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.
But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
hmmm
posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?
there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.
That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'
But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
Imo this was all to do with the so called Third Way when chancers took over the left and left their traditional supporters behind. Eventually they disenfranchised a chunk of their own base. All summed ny Mr Mandelson who didnt mind people getting filthy rich and who thought traditional labour supporters had nowhere else to go.
When they got tired of sucking it up it turned out they did have other places to go.
That's a symptom of it, rather than a cause.
Ultimately, the economic and nationalist forces unleashed in the 1980s and amplified by the development of the internet tended to favour (a) the ones who already had wealth, to the considerable disadvantage of those who didn't and (b) demagogues who mastered catchy soundbites and offered simple solutions to all our ills ahead of detailed, reasoned analysis. A toxic mix in the aftermath of an economic contraction.
What's slightly unusual about Netanyahu is how early he was in the field. And that may be due to the peculiar circumstances of Israel, and it may be due to him being rather more plausible and effective than the rest.
Snag is he's actually worse than most of them as well.
Id say it was changes in the 90s rather than the 80s. The single biggest event was the collapse of communism and all that that unleashed. Suddenly socialism didnt look so inevitable and left in general ditched the economic arguments and went off in a "social change " direction. This suited "progressive" middle class types but meant the lumpen proles got shoved to the back of the class and ignored as a socially conservative embarassment.
Yes, I agree the collapse of Communism was key. That was as a result of changes in the 80s, even if the Soviet Union officially limped on until the end of 1991.
Israelis say they protest "because we don't want to become like Poland," once the country that symbolised democratic transition, now better known for its broken judiciary and growing autocracy... ...Also Hungary. And Turkey. These are also all places where mass protest failed https://mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1640259077316935680
Israelis say they protest "because we don't want to become like Poland," once the country that symbolised democratic transition, now better known for its broken judiciary and growing autocracy... ...Also Hungary. And Turkey. These are also all places where mass protest failed https://mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1640259077316935680
Steve Barclay has written to the heads of NHS quangos insisting they review membership of charities, including Stonewall, and consider removing diversity officers.
The Health Secretary said bodies including NHS England should report on whether inclusion schemes were value for money, and stop employing full-time diversity and inclusion officers.
Mr Barclay recommended conferring their duties on existing managers
Israelis say they protest "because we don't want to become like Poland," once the country that symbolised democratic transition, now better known for its broken judiciary and growing autocracy... ...Also Hungary. And Turkey. These are also all places where mass protest failed https://mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1640259077316935680
odd they didnt mention France
We all know France has been a failed state for centuries.
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
And I wonder if that was what was beginning to happen in Scotland
Israelis say they protest "because we don't want to become like Poland," once the country that symbolised democratic transition, now better known for its broken judiciary and growing autocracy... ...Also Hungary. And Turkey. These are also all places where mass protest failed https://mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1640259077316935680
odd they didnt mention France
We all know France has been a failed state for centuries.
Im currentlly invested in the place.
Brooke junior moved to Paris last week with his francaise girlfirend. I had to lend him my favourite Ulster balaclava so he would blend in with the locals
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
There is loads of illegal drug-taking happening all around you, but you're bothered by nitrous oxide only because you can see the gas canisters.
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
Steve Barclay has written to the heads of NHS quangos insisting they review membership of charities, including Stonewall, and consider removing diversity officers.
The Health Secretary said bodies including NHS England should report on whether inclusion schemes were value for money, and stop employing full-time diversity and inclusion officers.
Mr Barclay recommended conferring their duties on existing managers
It is a fair question whether all the specific roles are needed in order to meet legislative obligations, or if they can be met in other ways.
It has been my universal experience that specific functions for such issues simply result in busy work. As opposed to actually getting the requirement done.
Disability access for websites, for example. You make that the responsibility of every team.
Very surprised we’re not getting more coverage of events in Israel as the country’s democracy stands on the verge of collapse. Looks like a familiar tale: yet another hard right, populist, nationalist seeking to subvert the rule of law in order to escape scrutiny and thwart opposition. But it seems as if the Israeli people aren’t having it. Good on them.
It’s notable that when Netanyahu was in London last week Suella Braverman was the only minister happy to be seen in public with him. Peas in a pod.
Netanyahu is testing to extremes the concept that populist politicians should be above the law. His proposed debasement of the legal system is laughably transparent, so much so that its seen as a step too far even by the kind of people who have supported him this far.
I suspect that the lack of coverage is because Israel is seen almost as a taboo subject. Where I agreed with the hard left in Labour was that criticism of the Israeli government and its policies isn't anti-semitic. Their harassment of British jews who were Labour members over the actions of a foreign government *was* anti-semitic but never mind.
So the approach is to give the Israelis a free pass no matter how nuts their government is. We should be free to call it out as we can any government. But can't because too many nutters think the proportionate response to Netanyahu is to remove Israel from the map...
I don't think people find it difficult to call out Israeli government actions. Its just unfortunate that it's best to disassociate from the nutters whilst doing so because we all know anti semitic tropes or worse will you are right inevitably follow on its heels.
Senate’s new budget boss has a way with words... https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/26/sheldon-whitehouse-budget-climate-00088574 ...“They’re relying on a new magic budget word. That word is ‘woke,’” Whitehouse said at a press conference earlier this month. “Call everything ‘woke’ and then try to cut its funding seems to be the strategy … The woke screen is a smoke screen.”..
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
There is loads of illegal drug-taking happening all around you, but you're bothered by nitrous oxide only because you can see the gas canisters.
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
There is some merit in making anti-social behaviour less visible though, in that visible signs of anti-social behaviour normalise that behaviour.
Senate’s new budget boss has a way with words... https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/26/sheldon-whitehouse-budget-climate-00088574 ...“They’re relying on a new magic budget word. That word is ‘woke,’” Whitehouse said at a press conference earlier this month. “Call everything ‘woke’ and then try to cut its funding seems to be the strategy … The woke screen is a smoke screen.”..
Ironic, considering "the hundreds of “Time to Wake Up” speeches he’s given".
Senate’s new budget boss has a way with words... https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/26/sheldon-whitehouse-budget-climate-00088574 ...“They’re relying on a new magic budget word. That word is ‘woke,’” Whitehouse said at a press conference earlier this month. “Call everything ‘woke’ and then try to cut its funding seems to be the strategy … The woke screen is a smoke screen.”..
Ironic, considering "the hundreds of “Time to Wake Up” speeches he’s given".
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
There is loads of illegal drug-taking happening all around you, but you're bothered by nitrous oxide only because you can see the gas canisters.
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
There is some merit in making anti-social behaviour less visible though, in that visible signs of anti-social behaviour normalise that behaviour.
It’s another example of the Conservative government failed drugs policy. Nanny just says stop! No suggestions of re-education, or any modes of harm reduction.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
I see we were right to suspect our most recent new and now banned contributor but were looking in the wrong direction. We had thought it might be you-know-who whereas it turned out to be one-of-them.
I think it fitting that their last post was "much of the west is starting to disintegrate".
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Let me uncomplicate it for you:
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
...
It's effectively an attempt to change the Constitution with the votes of a bare majority in Parliament.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/04/israel-unveils-controversial-plans-to-overhaul-judicial-system ...Levin laid out a law that would empower the country’s 120-seat Knesset to override supreme court decisions with a simple majority of 61 votes. Levin also proposed that politicians play a greater role in the appointment of supreme court judges and that ministers appoint their own legal advisers instead of using independent professionals...
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
...
It's effectively an attempt to change the Constitution with the votes of a bare majority in Parliament.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/04/israel-unveils-controversial-plans-to-overhaul-judicial-system ...Levin laid out a law that would empower the country’s 120-seat Knesset to override supreme court decisions with a simple majority of 61 votes. Levin also proposed that politicians play a greater role in the appointment of supreme court judges and that ministers appoint their own legal advisers instead of using independent professionals...
How does it work there? To override a court decision here we would presumably have to pass a law (in parliament) to do so. Is the protest that they want the courts always to be able to block legislation?
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Let me uncomplicate it for you:
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
"Let me uncomplicate it for you:"
If I said that, you'd be accusing me of 'mansplaining' .
I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.
In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.
He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.
But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
hmmm
posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?
there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.
The populist right are excellent at telling people they are going to solve all their problems, it's relatively easy to get elected when you make those promises to disgruntled voters. Problem is that once elected they rarely deliver on what they promised which is why the likes of Trump, Johnson and Bolsonaro get ejected when the first opportunity arises.
Same goes for Brexit. Whatever the Remain side did it was always likely to lose to Farage & Johnson telling people that leaving the EU was going to solve their problems.
The problems of the towns and cities of the north and midlands are not going to be solved by Brexit nor will they be solved by Johnson's "levelling up" guff. (I doubt Johnson has given more than 5 minutes thought to how we was going to deliver on his slogan). Perhaps they are essentially insoluble but it won't stop unscrupulous politicians from promising to do so for their own ends.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
...
It's effectively an attempt to change the Constitution with the votes of a bare majority in Parliament.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/04/israel-unveils-controversial-plans-to-overhaul-judicial-system ...Levin laid out a law that would empower the country’s 120-seat Knesset to override supreme court decisions with a simple majority of 61 votes. Levin also proposed that politicians play a greater role in the appointment of supreme court judges and that ministers appoint their own legal advisers instead of using independent professionals...
How does it work there? To override a court decision here we would presumably have to pass a law (in parliament) to do so. Is the protest that they want the courts always to be able to block legislation?
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Some of us are old enough to remember all the polling about how the EU was a non-issue - indded many threads on here said the same. I forget how it panned out in the end....
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Some of us are old enough to remember all the polling about how the EU was a non-issue - indded many threads on here said the same. I forget how it panned out in the end....
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Let me uncomplicate it for you:
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
"Let me uncomplicate it for you:"
If I said that, you'd be accusing me of 'mansplaining' .
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Let me uncomplicate it for you:
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
"Let me uncomplicate it for you:"
If I said that, you'd be accusing me of 'mansplaining' .
Nigel was being rather coy over the results - which in some aspects are pretty clear cut - I’m not explaining anything - simply quoting the poll write up.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
...
It's effectively an attempt to change the Constitution with the votes of a bare majority in Parliament.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/04/israel-unveils-controversial-plans-to-overhaul-judicial-system ...Levin laid out a law that would empower the country’s 120-seat Knesset to override supreme court decisions with a simple majority of 61 votes. Levin also proposed that politicians play a greater role in the appointment of supreme court judges and that ministers appoint their own legal advisers instead of using independent professionals...
How does it work there? To override a court decision here we would presumably have to pass a law (in parliament) to do so. Is the protest that they want the courts always to be able to block legislation?
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.
However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.
Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).
As you were.
Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.
And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.
For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.
Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.
Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though
Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
Let me uncomplicate it for you:
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
"Let me uncomplicate it for you:"
If I said that, you'd be accusing me of 'mansplaining' .
Gosh you seem to be obsessed with Carlotta...
??? I'd love to know the basis on which you think I am 'obsessed' with her. or is this just another attempt to shut down debate?
to be clear, I quite like Carlotta, and I note that we often 'like' each others posts. It's just I think she'd really, really wrong on this particular issue. And as she often posts about it unprompted, I feel no problem with debating it with her.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
The demographics suggest the state becomes more religious/authoritarian. But those required for its functioning as an advanced society (and by extension its security) tend to be opposed to that.
Move along, nothing to see here. I'm sure all the examples without an appropriate adult present involved serious risk.
Children as young as eight are being strip-searched by the police, according to a report showing "deeply concerning" and "widespread" failures...
More than half (52%) of the searches took place without an appropriate adult confirmed to be present - a legal requirement, except when there is serious risk to a child's life or welfare.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel? What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief? I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
Move along, nothing to see here. I'm sure all the examples without an appropriate adult present involved serious risk.
Children as young as eight are being strip-searched by the police, according to a report showing "deeply concerning" and "widespread" failures...
More than half (52%) of the searches took place without an appropriate adult confirmed to be present - a legal requirement, except when there is serious risk to a child's life or welfare.
How much do people want to bet that there is a department in the Met concerned with child safe guarding and community out reach?
I’ll bet they have a glossy website. Spent some millions on events that no one from any effected community was invited to. Generated enough paperwork to cause building subsidence…..
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
Drugs policy is a mess. Scientists can help us come up with a more rational policy by providing evidence on the relative harm of various substances - which is surely the appropriate metric against which to judge how and when government regulation in this area should be employed. Instead we have a government that seems to operate solely on the basis of banning anything that it's elderly client voters don't like.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
No one's arguing they shouldn't be able to. Just that in this case they are quite wrong to do so.
The demographics suggest the state becomes more religious/authoritarian. But those required for its functioning as an advanced society (and by extension its security) tend to be opposed to that.
I think as a state they have one important hope, which is that when push comes to shove, some parts of the Orthodox community pull back from public life a bit, seeing themselves as involved in the "spiritual" rather than day-to-day aspects, of the political functioning of the state. This applies to the ultra-orthodox who don't serve in the military, though, rather than groups like the settlers, who also tend to have more children than the secular, and more liberal-minded types of Israeli, and are a worry for their future as a democratic and non-populist / authoritarian state.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel? What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief? I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
A lot of the use is for "catering", I understand.
Annoying though finding the cartridges lying around everywhere is, it isn't quite as antisocial as the skunk smokers that mean you can't walk the streets without being toxified.
Adding another thing to the list of illegal activities that are tolerated in practice won't really help the Law, if nothing else.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
There is loads of illegal drug-taking happening all around you, but you're bothered by nitrous oxide only because you can see the gas canisters.
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
There is some merit in making anti-social behaviour less visible though, in that visible signs of anti-social behaviour normalise that behaviour.
But there are other better ways of doing that. Boring stuff like sweeping streets and cleaning parks better, or using littering laws to deal with the mess.
But we can't do that, because it requires ongoing care, attention and spending everywhere.
Much simpler and cheaper to just shout "we will make X illegal". It's unlikely to work, but in our strange postmodern world it's just the headlines that matter.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
I genuinely never thought Starmer would hold the line on Corbyn this much. If Corbyn were not so stubborn Starmer would never have had the opportunity.
Move along, nothing to see here. I'm sure all the examples without an appropriate adult present involved serious risk.
Children as young as eight are being strip-searched by the police, according to a report showing "deeply concerning" and "widespread" failures...
More than half (52%) of the searches took place without an appropriate adult confirmed to be present - a legal requirement, except when there is serious risk to a child's life or welfare.
How much do people want to bet that there is a department in the Met concerned with child safe guarding and community out reach?
I’ll bet they have a glossy website. Spent some millions on events that no one from any effected community was invited to. Generated enough paperwork to cause building subsidence…..
The issue isn't the searches, the 'find rate' was 60% for 'intimate cavity' searches for drugs/weapons etc when performed on children. Of course the police do need to follow the rulebook to the letter when children are concerned - slightly unexpected agreement between Nick Ferrari and a campaigning caller this morning on the issue.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
In the sense that most people don't use or try any of the above it is. Car parks littered with laughing gas canisters round here, this was well overdue
There is loads of illegal drug-taking happening all around you, but you're bothered by nitrous oxide only because you can see the gas canisters.
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
There is some merit in making anti-social behaviour less visible though, in that visible signs of anti-social behaviour normalise that behaviour.
But there are other better ways of doing that. Boring stuff like sweeping streets and cleaning parks better, or using littering laws to deal with the mess.
But we can't do that, because it requires ongoing care, attention and spending everywhere.
Much simpler and cheaper to just shout "we will make X illegal". It's unlikely to work, but in our strange postmodern world it's just the headlines that matter.
2 years later...
"Illegal thing X still a problem: New harsher sentences announced!"
Murrayfield? Are they expecting all the members to turn up in person?
Perhaps they think the result will cause a media scrum.
Depending on who wins there could be an almighty ruck-us
Murrayfield/the Scottish Rugby team is a metaphor for the SNP. The occasional victory v the old enemy that changed nothing and inevitably led to dis appointment
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Yup
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
A bit complex on the nationality/religion bit, because the star of david is a symbol of a religion as a well as a state. So for some they might be stars of david, and others simultaneously an Israeli flag.
Through my wife's family I've met several Jews who don't identify at all with Israel, and several that do. My wife, for instance, is an ex-Corbynite with very mixed feelings, to put it mildly, about the state, and certainly no big love or identification with it. An older relative is an outspoken supporter, and her brother never even wants to hear about it and is an outspoken critic of the place.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel? What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief? I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
I have had 2 attempts at trying Nitrous Oxide. It was offered to me to try when my wife was giving birth. I think the tank was empty as I got nothing. Then I was offered it when I had my broken legs by the ambulance men. I turned it down at first as I wasn't in a lot of pain, then I thought why not, give it a go. It just made me feel sick. Like motion sickness so I stopped pretty quickly.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
"Success" in government is measured by column inches in newspapers, not by the actual results of the policy, which won't show up till past the next election and are complex and probably ambiguous anyway.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Yup
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
Are all Russian people responsible for all the actions of Russia?
I suspect I can uncomplicate the politics of the trans issue.
It affects most men only very peripherally. I've only come across it when some middle-aged man decides she'd like to be Old Mother Riley. I try not to laugh because I know I should be sympathetic, but when people make it their aim in life to campaign for this, I smell virtual-signalling with a vengeance.
Children are dying for clean water, food and vaccines in certain parts of the world. That I feel genuine sympathy for. I can understand women feeling narked at their safe spaces being invaded. As a man, I walk happily at night without worrying about being sexually assaulted. If a man wants to live as a woman, go ahead, it's unlikely to affect me.
However, when a politician decides it's his/her destiny to push the issue of trans rights, going so far as to insult or physically attack those that don't share their views, or don't care as deeply, they make it an issue. Sometimes sleeping dogs are best left in peace. Something the Labour party, unlike the SNP, understand.
But I may be wrong, perhaps it's a genuine non-issue.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
No one's arguing they shouldn't be able to.
OLB seems to be.
As, indeed, did most of the country in 2020-1.
Not really. You've simply extrapolated what I have said with respect to one issue, applied it to a different issue, and in addition made out that I've said something I haven't. I didn't say government shouldn't be able to overrule scientific advice, and indeed this isn't my position. I said that in this case they've gone against the advice of their scientists in order to chase tabloid headlines. It's stupid policymaking and will cost the taxpayer more money, further waste police time and gum up the legal system, strengthen criminal gangs and quite possibly kill people. I've offered no opinion on lockdown policy but I would say that while scientific advice should be absolutely front and centre during a global pandemic ultimately it is for our political leaders to decide how to proceed. So I don't think I hold the views you're trying to ascribe to me.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Yup
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
Are all Russian people responsible for all the actions of Russia?
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel? What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief? I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
I have had 2 attempts at trying Nitrous Oxide. It was offered to me to try when my wife was giving birth. I think the tank was empty as I got nothing. Then I was offered it when I had my broken legs by the ambulance men. I turned it down at first as I wasn't in a lot of pain, then I thought why not, give it a go. It just made me feel sick. Like motion sickness so I stopped pretty quickly.
My wife didn't bother with it, she pushed out three kids with no pain relief at all. She is hard as nails.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Yup
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
Are all Russian people responsible for all the actions of Russia?
No - though the majority appear to be supportive of its current actions. And the state, of course, is certainly responsible for its actions, and its populace will therefore experience some of the consequences.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
Drugs policy is a mess. Scientists can help us come up with a more rational policy by providing evidence on the relative harm of various substances - which is surely the appropriate metric against which to judge how and when government regulation in this area should be employed. Instead we have a government that seems to operate solely on the basis of banning
anything that it's elderly client voters don't like.
The big problem with laughing gas is the litter associated with it. A better policy would have been to fine the manufacturers for the clean up (polluter pays principle) - with revenues going directly to local authority street cleaning departments. The manufacturers would soon design a more sustainable (recycle?) model.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
It’s remarkably easy to separate out “Israel” and “Jews”
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
What if it was an excellent policy and you had British Jews out on the streets waving the Israeli flag saying "Go Israel"?
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
Plenty of people with multiple nationalities/origins in London. I’m one of them.
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
Yep I hear you but we are talking about people conflating Israel and Jews. A nationality and a religion. There are British Jews waving Israeli flags. People then say British Jews and Israel should never be conflated. You see the problem.
Not really. They should not be automatically conflated, eg if someone were to demand a view from a British Jew on the whole situation, as if they are required to have a view and are responsible in some way as someone presumes they are supportive. If they've chosen to have express an opinion then people would discuss in any normal way.
Yup
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
Are all Russian people responsible for all the actions of Russia?
No - though the majority appear to be supportive of its current actions. And the state, of course, is certainly responsible for its actions, and its populace will therefore experience some of the consequences.
The majority of those who live in Russia, and have been subjected to a decade of media brainwashing, perhaps.
Those Russians who have got the Hell out of Dodge, and follow Western media, on the other hand…
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
Drugs policy is a mess. Scientists can help us come up with a more rational policy by providing evidence on the relative harm of various substances - which is surely the appropriate metric against which to judge how and when government regulation in this area should be employed. Instead we have a government that seems to operate solely on the basis of banning
anything that it's elderly client voters don't like.
The big problem with laughing gas is the litter associated with it. A better policy would have been to fine the manufacturers for the clean up (polluter pays principle) - with revenues going directly to local authority street cleaning departments. The manufacturers would soon design a more sustainable (recycle?) model.
If the issue is litter then a ban on dogs, cigarettes and fast food would be a better place to start.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
No one's arguing they shouldn't be able to.
OLB seems to be.
As, indeed, did most of the country in 2020-1.
Not really. You've simply extrapolated what I have said with respect to one issue, applied it to a different issue, and in addition made out that I've said something I haven't. I didn't say government shouldn't be able to overrule scientific advice, and indeed this isn't my position. I said that in this case they've gone against the advice of their scientists in order to chase tabloid headlines. It's stupid policymaking and will cost the taxpayer more money, further waste police time and gum up the legal system, strengthen criminal gangs and quite possibly kill people. I've offered no opinion on lockdown policy but I would say that while scientific advice should be absolutely front and centre during a global pandemic ultimately it is for our political leaders to decide how to proceed. So I don't think I hold the views you're trying to ascribe to me.
Essentially you're criticising them for weighing up expert advice against what they think will be popular and pluimping for the latter option.
Of course they've done that - they're politicians!
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel?
Automotive grade N2O has sulfur dioxide and other shit added to it so nobody is huffing that to get high.
Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?
What a waste of fecking time.
What about people who drag race cars, and use nitrous oxide as fuel? What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief? I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
I have had 2 attempts at trying Nitrous Oxide. It was offered to me to try when my wife was giving birth. I think the tank was empty as I got nothing. Then I was offered it when I had my broken legs by the ambulance men. I turned it down at first as I wasn't in a lot of pain, then I thought why not, give it a go. It just made me feel sick. Like motion sickness so I stopped pretty quickly.
My wife didn't bother with it, she pushed out three kids with no pain relief at all. She is hard as nails.
Going from my experience I don't think mine did either, although she probably thought she did. I'm sure the tank was empty.
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
Drugs policy is a mess. Scientists can help us come up with a more rational policy by providing evidence on the relative harm of various substances - which is surely the appropriate metric against which to judge how and when government regulation in this area should be employed. Instead we have a government that seems to operate solely on the basis of banning
anything that it's elderly client voters don't like.
The big problem with laughing gas is the litter associated with it. A better policy would have been to fine the manufacturers for the clean up (polluter pays principle) - with revenues going directly to local authority street cleaning departments. The manufacturers would soon design a more sustainable (recycle?) model.
If the issue is litter then a ban on dogs, cigarettes
and fast food would be a better place to start.
We don’t need to ban them, but apply polluter pays principle there too (not sure what you’d do about dog shit though!)
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
No one's arguing they shouldn't be able to.
OLB seems to be.
As, indeed, did most of the country in 2020-1.
Not really. You've simply extrapolated what I have said with respect to one issue, applied it to a different issue, and in addition made out that I've said something I haven't. I didn't say government shouldn't be able to overrule scientific advice, and indeed this isn't my position. I said that in this case they've gone against the advice of their scientists in order to chase tabloid headlines. It's stupid policymaking and will cost the taxpayer more money, further waste police time and gum up the legal system, strengthen criminal gangs and quite possibly kill people. I've offered no opinion on lockdown policy but I would say that while scientific advice should be absolutely front and centre during a global pandemic ultimately it is for our political leaders to decide how to proceed. So I don't think I hold the views you're trying to ascribe to me.
Essentially you're criticising them for weighing up expert advice against what they think will be popular and pluimping for the latter option.
Of course they've done that - they're politicians!
Good politicians get out in front of public opinion, do what they think will be best for the whole country and try to shape opinion through action and argument. The fact that this government operates as you suggest is why this country is becoming more of a shithole every day.
A bit complex on the nationality/religion bit, because the star of david is a symbol of a religion as a well as a state. So for some they might be stars of david, and others simultaneously an Israeli flag.
Through my wife's family I've met several Jews who don't identify at all with Israel, and several that do. My wife, for instance, is an ex-Corbynite with very mixed feelings, to put it mildly, about the state, and certainly no big love or identification with it. An older relative is an outspoken supporter, and her brother never even wants to hear about it and is an outspoken critic of the place.
The point about Israel is it is the only majority Jewish nation in the world. For Jews around the world it therefore offers an escape route if anti Semitism grows in their nation of residence which they didn't have during the Holocaust.
That applies to secular liberal Jews as much as Orthodox religious Jews, even when the 2 are at loggerheads over the direction of Israel like now
Given all the drug taking around and about I'd have thought that laughing gas is just a deckchair move by the govt.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
The laughing gas move is a joke, appropriately. Yet again the government overrules the scientists in a populist authoritarian knee-jerk response. For a government that is supposedly so anti cancel culture, they certainly seem to like banning things and telling people what they can and can't do.
The politicians absolutely should be able to "overrule" scientists. We've just seen what happens when they give into the Cult of the Expert.
No one's arguing they shouldn't be able to.
OLB seems to be.
As, indeed, did most of the country in 2020-1.
Not really. You've simply extrapolated what I have said with respect to one issue, applied it to a different issue, and in addition made out that I've said something I haven't. I didn't say government shouldn't be able to overrule scientific advice, and indeed this isn't my position. I said that in this case they've gone against the advice of their scientists in order to chase tabloid headlines. It's stupid policymaking and will cost the taxpayer more money, further waste police time and gum up the legal system, strengthen criminal gangs and quite possibly kill people. I've offered no opinion on lockdown policy but I would say that while scientific advice should be absolutely front and centre during a global pandemic ultimately it is for our political leaders to decide how to proceed. So I don't think I hold the views you're trying to ascribe to me.
Essentially you're criticising them for weighing up expert advice against what they think will be popular and pluimping for the latter option.
Of course they've done that - they're politicians!
Good politicians get out in front of public opinion, do what they think will be best for the whole country and try to shape opinion through action and argument. The fact that this government operates as you suggest is why this country is becoming more of a shithole every day.
Well, never let it be said that you're not an optimist.
By your standards, we have no good politicians. Sir Keir has had, for at least the last year, the perfect opportunity to act as you say a good politician does. Instead, cheered on by his party's supporters, he has deliberately done and said as little as possible, focusing on trying to win the next election by default.
Comments
I suspect that the lack of coverage is because Israel is seen almost as a taboo subject. Where I agreed with the hard left in Labour was that criticism of the Israeli government and its policies isn't anti-semitic. Their harassment of British jews who were Labour members over the actions of a foreign government *was* anti-semitic but never mind.
So the approach is to give the Israelis a free pass no matter how nuts their government is. We should be free to call it out as we can any government. But can't because too many nutters think the proportionate response to Netanyahu is to remove Israel from the map...
voted for centre right parties across the western world and the working classes mostly voted for centre left parties.
Since the mid 1990s and especially in the last decade or so however the white working class in particular voted more for conservative parties while graduates increasingly vote for liberal or left of centre parties
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23407877.snp-insiders-suggest-timing-leadership-contest-winner-announcement/
...Also Hungary. And Turkey. These are also all places where mass protest failed
https://mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1640259077316935680
Brooke junior moved to Paris last week with his francaise girlfirend. I had to lend him my favourite Ulster balaclava so he would blend in with the locals
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights
...Most Britons have paid little to no attention to the trans rights debate..
The support or otherwise on various issues is quite complicated. (And Carlotta appears to be wrong about her views being supported more by women than men.)
I imagine the government will be happy if they can make use of nitrous oxide less visible, and don't give a damn about its actual use. As long as you stop seeing the empty canisters in the car park you will believe the problem is being tackled.
Disability access for websites, for example. You make that the responsibility of every team.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/26/sheldon-whitehouse-budget-climate-00088574
...“They’re relying on a new magic budget word. That word is ‘woke,’” Whitehouse said at a press conference earlier this month. “Call everything ‘woke’ and then try to cut its funding seems to be the strategy … The woke screen is a smoke screen.”..
Not really, but given how much parliamentary support she has it would certainly amuse.
It’s a much brighter morning here.
In Israel I've not been following save to see that there are demonstrations in London about it. What has Netanyahu done? Is he saying that the courts can't strike down government legislation? In which case is this something we have touched on previously whereby a democratically-elected government is trying to abolish elections?
As for the demonstrations in London about it it's interesting that these are presumably British Jews vociferously protesting about Israel and hence it is easy to see the complications of trying to separate out Israel and the Jews.
I think it fitting that their last post was "much of the west is starting to disintegrate".
Or perhaps it was Michael Gove.
By 50% to 26%, Britons say that it should not be made easier for transgender people to change their legal gender
Britons are strongly opposed to transgender women being allowed to take part in women's sporting events
Access to facilities: Britons are more worried about granting trans women access to women’s spaces than trans men to men’s spaces
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/04/israel-unveils-controversial-plans-to-overhaul-judicial-system
...Levin laid out a law that would empower the country’s 120-seat Knesset to override supreme court decisions with a simple majority of 61 votes. Levin also proposed that politicians play a greater role in the appointment of supreme court judges and that ministers appoint their own legal advisers instead of using independent professionals...
If I said that, you'd be accusing me of 'mansplaining' .
Same goes for Brexit. Whatever the Remain side did it was always likely to lose to Farage & Johnson telling people that leaving the EU was going to solve their problems.
The problems of the towns and cities of the north and midlands are not going to be solved by Brexit nor will they be solved by Johnson's "levelling up" guff. (I doubt Johnson has given more than 5 minutes thought to how we was going to deliver on his slogan). Perhaps they are essentially insoluble but it won't stop unscrupulous politicians from promising to do so for their own ends.
Netentahu wants the change because he's facing criminal charges; the right because they want to abandon the constitutional protections.
“Netanyahu is a corrupt, racist, arsehole. Because he does x, y, z” - legitimate opinion
“All Jews are {insert bizarre conspiracy theory} “ - racist shit
It only seems to be tricky for some people. Personally I count such people as 3/5 of a real person.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/world-population-bomb-may-never-go-off-as-feared-finds-study
Why on earth would this group of British people be waving flags of a different country and care a fig about the machinations of the politics there?
https://mobile.twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1640272630241542144
to be clear, I quite like Carlotta, and I note that we often 'like' each others posts. It's just I think she'd really, really wrong on this particular issue. And as she often posts about it unprompted, I feel no problem with debating it with her.
The demographics suggest the state becomes more religious/authoritarian.
But those required for its functioning as an advanced society (and by extension its security) tend to be opposed to that.
Children as young as eight are being strip-searched by the police, according to a report showing "deeply concerning" and "widespread" failures...
More than half (52%) of the searches took place without an appropriate adult confirmed to be present - a legal requirement, except when there is serious risk to a child's life or welfare.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65081765
If I get bent out of shape every time I see Turkish people having a march about Turkish politics…
What about hospitals, who use nitrous oxide for pain relief?
I’m pretty sure there’s a number of other industrial uses of the stuff too.
Governments should have learned about prohibition from 1920s America.
I’ll bet they have a glossy website. Spent some millions on events that no one from any effected community was invited to. Generated enough paperwork to cause building subsidence…..
To be fair, this is not a new thing. It remains a stupid thing, however.
Just that in this case they are quite wrong to do so.
Annoying though finding the cartridges lying around everywhere is, it isn't quite as antisocial as the skunk smokers that mean you can't walk the streets without being toxified.
Adding another thing to the list of illegal activities that are tolerated in practice won't really help the Law, if nothing else.
https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1640283146728898560?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
As, indeed, did most of the country in 2020-1.
Russia is China's trading partner #12
https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1640272282613424128
But we can't do that, because it requires ongoing care, attention and spending everywhere.
Much simpler and cheaper to just shout "we will make X illegal". It's unlikely to work, but in our strange postmodern world it's just the headlines that matter.
"Illegal thing X still a problem: New harsher sentences announced!"
victory v the old enemy that changed nothing and inevitably led to dis appointment
Are all Turkish people responsible for all the actions of Turkey?
Through my wife's family I've met several Jews who don't identify at all with Israel, and several that do. My wife, for instance, is an ex-Corbynite with very mixed feelings, to put it mildly, about the state, and certainly no big love or identification with it. An older relative is an outspoken supporter, and her brother never even wants to hear about it and is an outspoken critic of the place.
Have you never seen Yes Minister?
It affects most men only very peripherally. I've only come across it when some middle-aged man decides she'd like to be Old Mother Riley. I try not to laugh because I know I should be sympathetic, but when people make it their aim in life to campaign for this, I smell virtual-signalling with a vengeance.
Children are dying for clean water, food and vaccines in certain parts of the world. That I feel genuine sympathy for. I can understand women feeling narked at their safe spaces being invaded. As a man, I walk happily at night without worrying about being sexually assaulted. If a man wants to live as a woman, go ahead, it's unlikely to affect me.
However, when a politician decides it's his/her destiny to push the issue of trans rights, going so far as to insult or physically attack those that don't share their views, or don't care as deeply, they make it an issue. Sometimes sleeping dogs are best left in peace. Something the Labour party, unlike the SNP, understand.
But I may be wrong, perhaps it's a genuine non-issue.
I've offered no opinion on lockdown policy but I would say that while scientific advice should be absolutely front and centre during a global pandemic ultimately it is for our political leaders to decide how to proceed. So I don't think I hold the views you're trying to ascribe to me.
And the state, of course, is certainly responsible for its actions, and its populace will therefore experience some of the consequences.
Those Russians who have got the Hell out of Dodge, and follow Western media, on the other hand…
Of course they've done that - they're politicians!
Or she had so much she emptied it.
Has anyone tried using waste heat from power stations for this? Literally half the energy in such stations lost as heat anyway….
That applies to secular liberal Jews as much as Orthodox religious Jews, even when the 2 are at loggerheads over the direction of Israel like now
By your standards, we have no good politicians. Sir Keir has had, for at least the last year, the perfect opportunity to act as you say a good politician does. Instead, cheered on by his party's supporters, he has deliberately done and said as little as possible, focusing on trying to win the next election by default.