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Can Sunak carry over his rating recovery into a new week? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,164
edited April 2023 in General
imageCan Sunak carry over his rating recovery into a new week? – politicalbetting.com

However you look at it Sunak has had a very good couple of weeks which includes of course getting his Northern Ireland deal through and agreed with all the parties in Dublin Belfast and of course Brussels.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,034
    edited March 2023
    Ominously for Starmer the 34% rating he has relative to Sunak as best PM is the same as the voteshare Kinnock's Labour got in 1992 in a general election almost everybody expected him to win. Sunak will very much hope John Major's victory after 13 years of his party in power is repeated for him, though still a big ask
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Depends. Johnson/Truss have done not inconsiderable damage to brand Tory - and the daft Tory MPs falling for the “cash for access” sting (didn’t they do even the most basic homework?) will have put Tory sleaze back in the news. Sunak’s brand may improve but improving brand Tory in the short term is truly Sisyphean.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    A woman in the Iranian Parliament will be suspended from her position in a political party for 9 months for speaking in public about women’s rights.

    Oh wait sorry, small typo. In the Victorian Parliament, in Australia.

    Oh and a member of the “conservative” Liberal Party.


    https://twitter.com/therealrukshan/status/1640170562000687105?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,042
    Statistically leader ratings are a worse guide to the result of the next general election than voting intention, though neither is much use till 3-6 months before the poll. I set this out in a thread years ago.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/18/leader-and-government-approval-ratings-and-voting-intention-as-a-guide-to-general-election-results/#vanilla-comments
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Steve Barclay has written to the heads of NHS quangos insisting they review membership of charities, including Stonewall, and consider removing diversity officers.

    The Health Secretary said bodies including NHS England should report on whether inclusion schemes were value for money, and stop employing full-time diversity and inclusion officers.

    Mr Barclay recommended conferring their duties on existing managers


    https://www.msn.com/en-GB/news/other/health-secretary-wants-nhs-quangos-to-consider-removing-diversity-officers/ar-AA1964nC?ocid=sprinklr_sch

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,042
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Ominously for Starmer the 34% rating he has relative to Sunak as best PM is the same as the voteshare Kinnock's Labour got in 1992 in a general election almost everybody expected him to win. Sunak will very much hope John Major's victory after 13 years of his party in power is repeated for him, though still a big ask

    The thing missing with Sunak is the Vision thing. He has yet to present a clear vision of where he wants to take the country, and to convince enough people that tomorrow will be better than today.

    It's not that he has presented one, and it hasn't convinced as with Major in 97 (remember "Back to Basics"?), it's that he hasn't bothered to try.

    What may save him is that Starmer doesn't really have the Vision thing either.

    The nerds on this site, of whom I am one, may prefer competence to Vision, but most evidence is that the electorate don't agree.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842

    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/

    They think she has achieved something in education? Wow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ominously for Starmer the 34% rating he has relative to Sunak as best PM is the same as the voteshare Kinnock's Labour got in 1992 in a general election almost everybody expected him to win. Sunak will very much hope John Major's victory after 13 years of his party in power is repeated for him, though still a big ask

    The thing missing with Sunak is the Vision thing. He has yet to present a clear vision of where he wants to take the country, and to convince enough people that tomorrow will be better than today.

    It's not that he has presented one, and it hasn't convinced as with Major in 97 (remember "Back to Basics"?), it's that he hasn't bothered to try.

    What may save him is that Starmer doesn't really have the Vision thing either.

    The nerds on this site, of whom I am one, may prefer competence to Vision, but most evidence is that the electorate don't agree.
    I agree that it is missing. I am not clear what kind of country he wants to build. But it is nice to see some competence after the chaos of the last few years and the polling would indicate that people are appreciating it. I wonder if it is the other way around and that it is the nerds who worry about such things whilst the electorate are just looking for someone to get on with it and leave them alone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    "getting his Northern Ireland deal through and agreed with all the parties in Dublin Belfast and of course Brussels."

    Has the DUP relocated to the Land of Oz, perhaps?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Sunak is doing a decent job of staunching the wound. But that's all it is.

    His personal ratings may recover. The Conservatives won't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    DavidL said:

    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/

    They think she has achieved something in education? Wow.
    An expansion of private education, as more parents chose to opt out of the state indoctrination?
  • Not if Cruella Braverman gets her away. Sunak really needs to fire the disgraced national security risk.

    Suella Braverman is accused of secretly backing a backbench rebellion against her own Illegal Migration Bill to push Downing Street into toughening up measures to tackle the small boats crisis.

    Senior government sources said the home secretary was a “sock puppet” under the influence of Tory hardliners who believe that Rishi Sunak has not gone far enough to clamp down on Channel crossings.

    They said Braverman was trying to use Tory rebels to force No 10 into hardening up the bill, which arrives back in the Commons on Monday.

    The rebels, believed to number about 50, have tabled a series of amendments. These would allow ministers to ignore initial rulings from European human rights judges, bar migrants from using any aspect of Britain’s domestic human rights laws to avoid deportation and further restrict their power to lodge legal appeals.

    The Times understands that after talks with Braverman at the weekend the rebels have agreed not to push the amendments to a vote this week in return for a promise that the government will consider their concerns before the bill becomes law.

    Some figures in government believe Braverman supports the amendments and is using the rebels to put pressure on Downing Street.

    “She wants to use it to spook us to offer concessions to get them to drop their amendments because a big rebellion would be embarrassing,” a source said. “She has basically become a sock puppet for the right.”

    Several sources confirmed that Braverman had tried to persuade Downing Street to toughen up the bill before it was published this month.

    She was overruled by the prime minister, who feared that her plans would prompt an immediate and unnecessary confrontation with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and make it harder to get the bill through the House of Lords.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suella-braverman-fuelling-rebellion-against-her-own-migrant-bill-s8bgrzb7b
  • Well, turns out Project Fear downplayed the reality of Brexit.

    Brexit has damaged UK economic growth by as much as Covid or the energy crisis caused by President Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the head of the government’s economic watchdog has warned.

    Richard Hughes, the chairman of the Office for Budget Responsibility, said Britain’s departure from the European Union had reduced economic output by around 4 per cent compared to if the UK had remained in the bloc.

    He added that this was a contributing factor to the “biggest squeeze on living standards” that the country had ever faced with household incomes unlikely to return to pre-pandemic levels until the late 2020s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-hughes-brexit-has-hit-the-economy-as-hard-as-covid-or-energy-crisis-xg678m30f
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/

    They think she has achieved something in education? Wow.
    An expansion of private education, as more parents chose to opt out of the state indoctrination?
    That would fit the pattern. The number of people in pain who are no longer willing to wait for hip and knee replacements, cataract removal and a range of other treatments is another triumph as is the almost total collapse of NHS dentistry which now amounts to pulling teeth out when someone is in actual pain and not much else.

    More and more services provided by the State are of such poor quality and scarcity that people are opting out. I don't think that this is by any means just a Scottish phenomenon but it is a very strong trend. We spend more and more on these services but they simply do not deliver.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Fishing said:

    Statistically leader ratings are a worse guide to the result of the next general election than voting intention, though neither is much use till 3-6 months before the poll. I set this out in a thread years ago.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/18/leader-and-government-approval-ratings-and-voting-intention-as-a-guide-to-general-election-results/#vanilla-comments

    Thanks this is really useful and it might be good if folks on here referred to it when making wild predictions. Not that I could ever be accused of such a thing.

    We are now a maximum of 19 months from the next General Election. End of October 2024 is the practical cut-off.*




    * December '19 was a one-off election under exceptional circumstances and will not be repeated. Those thinking this can run until January '25 are, as @TSE has stated, deluded.



  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2023

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited March 2023
    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/

    They think she has achieved something in education? Wow.
    The full section on education:

    Her main achievement is the Scottish Child Payment, now £25 per week for each child in low-income homes.

    Relieving poverty can improve school attainment.

    But the impact on family income is like the tax credits from the last Labour Government.

    The policy is powerful, but not specific to Sturgeon.

    There have also been failures. She aimed to close the gap in school attainment caused by poverty.

    tudies, comparing schools across the world.

    They show that Scottish attainment has slipped. The attainment gap has narrowed only because the standards of affluent pupils have fallen.

    Equality through dumbing-down is nothing to be proud of.

    This decline is due in part to the new school curriculum.

    It’s narrower. It’s less challenging. Class sizes have crept up despite SNP promises to reduce them.

    Sturgeon can boast entry to university by students from the poorest areas has grown. But they still have worse chances than in the rest of the UK.

    Local colleges are better at widening access than the universities. Yet Sturgeon’s Government has starved them of funds.

    It was also unimpressive on Covid’s effect on education. Schools were closed without proper attention to supporting home learning.

    So attainment declined and inequality widened. Other countries, including England, handled the impact on education much better.


  • Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    The “she brought it on herself” argument. Where have we heard that before? I suggest you watch some of the videos.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
    @holyroodmandy
    “While having good intentions is laudable, it’s not enough and is hardly the ringing epitaph that any first minister wants etched on their political gravestone.”

    https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1639884953205735424
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618
    edited March 2023

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?

    (Snip img)

    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/
    I've seen the videos, and read other reports. You know, getting both sides of the story. I'd recommend it. It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst.

    Is violence against women by trans people a significant problem in New Zealand? If so, why are trans people seen as the biggest threat, and worthy of this much hatred?

    As for the cartoon: I had no idea who 'Georgina Beyer' is/was, until you posted it. As such, I have no real idea if it denotes a 'good' or 'bad' look, or indeed the point the cartoon is trying to make, as I'm unsure what the 'spirit' of Georgina Beyer was. It seems she was trans; but I have no idea what her 'spirit' would be in relation to the TERF movement.
  • Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    The “she brought it on herself” argument. Where have we heard that before? I suggest you watch some of the videos.
    I have watched the videos but nice smear.

    So what first attracted you to the Tommy Robinson fan?
  • Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
    Ugh.

    Sadly her plans to stand in Sheffield Central do not fill me with joy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    The “she brought it on herself” argument. Where have we heard that before? I suggest you watch some of the videos.
    I have watched the videos but nice smear.

    So what first attracted you to the Tommy Robinson fan?
    Incidentally, why do people use Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon’s pseudonym. Given that he uses it to hide his past entanglements with the law?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    The framing of a women’s rights activist as “anti trans activist” is a bit of a give away - and Auckland Prides attempt to airbrush the violence shows the difficulty some have with dealing with reality.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    As an example:

    "An earlier appearance in Australia had been attended and supported by white supremacist groups"

    "The Green party co-leader Marama Davidson, who was demonstrating in support of trans rights, was hit by a motorcycle at a pedestrian crossing. A convoy of motorcyclists had appeared at the protest in support of Keen-Minshull."

    etc.

    It's one of the reasons I don't particularly like protests or counter-protests (as I literally ran into on Saturday). *Your* motives and beliefs may be honourable and good, but the same may not be said for too many of the people on 'your' side of the barriers. But that's my personal choice: if others wish to protest legally and civilly so be it.
  • Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,416
    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    More importantly will the Tories still be "shellacked" !!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    "Some of the people she knows" - that's pretty smeary; she's gone on the record to say she abhors such beliefs.

    She might simply be of the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend which, whilst politically inadvisable, doesn't make her a white supremacist nor a nazi.

    Meanwhile, some of the antifa lot at her rally seemed to have far more in common with the actual fascists that they claim to oppose.

    Some men just enjoy violence and hating - they think this gives them an excuse to freely indulge in their basest instincts.
  • Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    The “she brought it on herself” argument. Where have we heard that before? I suggest you watch some of the videos.
    I have watched the videos but nice smear.

    So what first attracted you to the Tommy Robinson fan?
    Incidentally, why do people use Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon’s pseudonym. Given that he uses it to hide his past entanglements with the law?
    Maybe the same reason Posie Parker fans don’t use her real name ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    As an example:

    "An earlier appearance in Australia had been attended and supported by white supremacist groups"

    "The Green party co-leader Marama Davidson, who was demonstrating in support of trans rights, was hit by a motorcycle at a pedestrian crossing. A convoy of motorcyclists had appeared at the protest in support of Keen-Minshull."

    etc.

    It's one of the reasons I don't particularly like protests or counter-protests (as I literally ran into on Saturday). *Your* motives and beliefs may be honourable and good, but the same may not be said for too many of the people on 'your' side of the barriers. But that's my personal choice: if others wish to protest legally and civilly so be it.
    So, some other very unsavoury types seeking publicity for themselves turned up at her rally?

    I agree on your final point. It's unfair to say that's the fault of the speaker though or you'd never speak on anything vaguely contentious that might attract them.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    On Topic, I'll be more impressed if Sunak's improvement survives the April Direct Debits working through the system.

    The energy cap is about £210 month, but the government discount has cut that to about £140 for the last six months. The cap is continuing, but the flat rate discount isn't.

    Council Tax (£100-£200 a month or so) is going up £5 to £10 a month. Because of the bonkers way payments are structured, most people don't pay it at all in February or March. I do wonder if that's a bit of why people feel cheerier about Cost of Living right now.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ominously for Starmer the 34% rating he has relative to Sunak as best PM is the same as the voteshare Kinnock's Labour got in 1992 in a general election almost everybody expected him to win. Sunak will very much hope John Major's victory after 13 years of his party in power is repeated for him, though still a big ask

    The thing missing with Sunak is the Vision thing. He has yet to present a clear vision of where he wants to take the country, and to convince enough people that tomorrow will be better than today.

    It's not that he has presented one, and it hasn't convinced as with Major in 97 (remember "Back to Basics"?), it's that he hasn't bothered to try.

    What may save him is that Starmer doesn't really have the Vision thing either.

    The nerds on this site, of whom I am one, may prefer competence to Vision, but most evidence is that the electorate don't agree.
    TBF he’s been firefighting since he arrived
  • On Topic, I'll be more impressed if Sunak's improvement survives the April Direct Debits working through the system.

    The energy cap is about £210 month, but the government discount has cut that to about £140 for the last six months. The cap is continuing, but the flat rate discount isn't.

    Council Tax (£100-£200 a month or so) is going up £5 to £10 a month. Because of the bonkers way payments are structured, most people don't pay it at all in February or March. I do wonder if that's a bit of why people feel cheerier about Cost of Living right now.

    Will be. No CTax and discounted energy bills. And next month they get hit by a hefty tax increase and their bills go up - not just energy of course, so many other things also see an April hike.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    edited March 2023

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    "Some of the people she knows" - that's pretty smeary; she's gone on the record to say she abhors such beliefs.

    She might simply be of the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend which, whilst politically inadvisable, doesn't make her a white supremacist nor a nazi.

    Meanwhile, some of the antifa lot at her rally seemed to have far more in common with the actual fascists that they claim to oppose.

    Some men just enjoy violence and hating - they think this gives them an excuse to freely indulge in their basest instincts.
    Chris Williamson say he isn’t an anti-semite.

    Judge people by their actions not their words.

    She always ends up getting interviewed with some interesting views on white genocide.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    It was enough an issue to throw the SNP into turmoil, end Nicola Sturgeon’s career, and provide a boost to the Scottish Conservatives.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408

    On Topic, I'll be more impressed if Sunak's improvement survives the April Direct Debits working through the system.

    The energy cap is about £210 month, but the government discount has cut that to about £140 for the last six months. The cap is continuing, but the flat rate discount isn't.

    Council Tax (£100-£200 a month or so) is going up £5 to £10 a month. Because of the bonkers way payments are structured, most people don't pay it at all in February or March. I do wonder if that's a bit of why people feel cheerier about Cost of Living right now.

    Very much my theory.
    There's been an extra hundreds of quids not deducted each month.
    Mines £110 pcm on a Band A with single person discount.
    No one in Northumberland is paying less.
    Council tax benefit has been frozen yet again. You don't qualify on minimum wage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    I don't think it will. It's the cost of living and public services that will be decisive.

    It's those that are already relatively affluent/comfortable that engage in culture war issues *except* to the extent that it directly affects their lives locally- heavy immigration, teaching policy in schools etc.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?

    (Snip img)

    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/
    I've seen the videos, and read other reports. You know, getting both sides of the story. I'd recommend it. It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst.

    Is violence against women by trans people a significant problem in New Zealand? If so, why are trans people seen as the biggest threat, and worthy of this much hatred?

    As for the cartoon: I had no idea who 'Georgina Beyer' is/was, until you posted it. As such, I have no real idea if it denotes a 'good' or 'bad' look, or indeed the point the cartoon is trying to make, as I'm unsure what the 'spirit' of Georgina Beyer was. It seems she was trans; but I have no idea what her 'spirit' would be in relation to the TERF movement.
    Men who identify as trans aren’t specifically the problem. Male violence against women is the problem - as was demonstrated in Auckland. This isn’t a “trans” issue, it’s a “women’s rights” issue, and if you think that’s going away you’ll be disappointed. Meanwhile SKS appears to be back pedalling on GRR, acknowledging the need to take the public with you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    The framing of a women’s rights activist as “anti trans activist” is a bit of a give away - and Auckland Prides attempt to airbrush the violence shows the difficulty some have with dealing with reality.
    I'm not sure this is airbrushing ?
    It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst...
    Is there video, for example, of the Green Party leader being knocked down ?

    As for the 'framing', is that inaccurate ?
    I understand your point about women's rights, but her public positions on trans rights seem to go well beyond issues that might directly affect women.

    I'd never heard of her before, but she appears to be an unpleasant provocateur. That doesn't excuse violence at rallies, but neither does the violence make her in any way an admirable person.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    As an example:

    "An earlier appearance in Australia had been attended and supported by white supremacist groups"

    "The Green party co-leader Marama Davidson, who was demonstrating in support of trans rights, was hit by a motorcycle at a pedestrian crossing. A convoy of motorcyclists had appeared at the protest in support of Keen-Minshull."

    etc.

    It's one of the reasons I don't particularly like protests or counter-protests (as I literally ran into on Saturday). *Your* motives and beliefs may be honourable and good, but the same may not be said for too many of the people on 'your' side of the barriers. But that's my personal choice: if others wish to protest legally and civilly so be it.
    So, some other very unsavoury types seeking publicity for themselves turned up at her rally?

    I agree on your final point. It's unfair to say that's the fault of the speaker though or you'd never speak on anything vaguely contentious that might attract them.
    Well, to be fair she's an unsavory type seeking publicity for herself, so they were in good company. ;)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372
    Right of centre parties won 47% in 2019. The large majority of that 47% will vote for right of centre parties in 2024, unless Boris/Truss are deliberately alienating them.

    The idea that the Conservatives would win fewer seats than in 1997 was always fanciful.
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Yes, my feeling is it comes back to the fundamentals and probably the realisation amongst voters that for all the hype and noise, nothing is actually getting better or fixed. Core inflation feels quite sticky. Lots of bills going up in April (council tax, water, mobile phones, standing charges on gas / electric) and so on. If Sunak wants to cut NHS waiting lists, suggest he sorts the doctor's strike. I think sewerage and water /river pollution is a ticking time bomb for the Tories too.

    The boats won't actually get stopped unless you massively increase the bureaucracy to speed up decisions and find returns agreements to send back those who claims fail. The biggest blocker is travel documentation - no state wants it migrants back so they drag their heels when it comes to issuing a passport for a migrant we want to return. Ultimately, it's supply / demand: there's a massive demand for migration / asylum; but a lack of supply of safe routes. The people smugglers and traffickers are filling that gap and the pull factors once you get here (English speaking country, black economy etc) far outweigh things like Rwanda schemes.

    So the Tories actually need to deliver - not seen any evidence yet of that.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,090
    edited March 2023

    Not if Cruella Braverman gets her away. Sunak really needs to fire the disgraced national security risk.

    Suella Braverman is accused of secretly backing a backbench rebellion against her own Illegal Migration Bill to push Downing Street into toughening up measures to tackle the small boats crisis.

    Senior government sources said the home secretary was a “sock puppet” under the influence of Tory hardliners who believe that Rishi Sunak has not gone far enough to clamp down on Channel crossings.

    They said Braverman was trying to use Tory rebels to force No 10 into hardening up the bill, which arrives back in the Commons on Monday.

    The rebels, believed to number about 50, have tabled a series of amendments. These would allow ministers to ignore initial rulings from European human rights judges, bar migrants from using any aspect of Britain’s domestic human rights laws to avoid deportation and further restrict their power to lodge legal appeals.

    The Times understands that after talks with Braverman at the weekend the rebels have agreed not to push the amendments to a vote this week in return for a promise that the government will consider their concerns before the bill becomes law.

    Some figures in government believe Braverman supports the amendments and is using the rebels to put pressure on Downing Street.

    “She wants to use it to spook us to offer concessions to get them to drop their amendments because a big rebellion would be embarrassing,” a source said. “She has basically become a sock puppet for the right.”

    Several sources confirmed that Braverman had tried to persuade Downing Street to toughen up the bill before it was published this month.

    She was overruled by the prime minister, who feared that her plans would prompt an immediate and unnecessary confrontation with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and make it harder to get the bill through the House of Lords.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suella-braverman-fuelling-rebellion-against-her-own-migrant-bill-s8bgrzb7b

    Good morning

    Your last sentence affirms Sunak has the right priority on this issue

    Indeed Sky have confirmed the rebels have agreed to drop their rebellion

    The ERG are finally being marginalised
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
    Ugh.

    Sadly her plans to stand in Sheffield Central do not fill me with joy.
    They should. You get a chance to actively campaign against here
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?

    (Snip img)

    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/
    I've seen the videos, and read other reports. You know, getting both sides of the story. I'd recommend it. It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst.

    Is violence against women by trans people a significant problem in New Zealand? If so, why are trans people seen as the biggest threat, and worthy of this much hatred?

    As for the cartoon: I had no idea who 'Georgina Beyer' is/was, until you posted it. As such, I have no real idea if it denotes a 'good' or 'bad' look, or indeed the point the cartoon is trying to make, as I'm unsure what the 'spirit' of Georgina Beyer was. It seems she was trans; but I have no idea what her 'spirit' would be in relation to the TERF movement.
    Men who identify as trans aren’t specifically the problem. Male violence against women is the problem - as was demonstrated in Auckland. This isn’t a “trans” issue, it’s a “women’s rights” issue, and if you think that’s going away you’ll be disappointed. Meanwhile SKS appears to be back pedalling on GRR, acknowledging the need to take the public with you.
    (dons flameproof coat)

    No, it is a trans issue, because you only ever go on about trans people wrt it. That's a clear indicator that you're not actually interested in safety of women, only in bashing trans. Hence why you drag up a story from New Zealand.

    I'd also argue the problem is violence in general, not just against women. There is too much violence in society, and too much acceptance of violence. Quite how we get away from that, I don't know...
  • Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
    Ugh.

    Sadly her plans to stand in Sheffield Central do not fill me with joy.
    They should. You get a chance to actively campaign against here
    True, when will I get a better opportunity to lob a bottle of piss at her?

    (That’s a joke btw.)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    "Some of the people she knows" - that's pretty smeary; she's gone on the record to say she abhors such beliefs.

    She might simply be of the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend which, whilst politically inadvisable, doesn't make her a white supremacist nor a nazi.

    Meanwhile, some of the antifa lot at her rally seemed to have far more in common with the actual fascists that they claim to oppose.

    Some men just enjoy violence and hating - they think this gives them an excuse to freely indulge in their basest instincts.
    New Zealand media was a shocker - one TV station blurred her hand because it said she was giving a “white power” signal. Play the unblurred version and it’s clear she’s adjusting the zip on her jumper.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    for a slightly different angle:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/anti-trans-activist-posie-parker-ends-new-zealand-tour-after-violent-protests-erupt
    Thanks - read it.

    Not sure how that's a different take?
    As an example:

    "An earlier appearance in Australia had been attended and supported by white supremacist groups"

    "The Green party co-leader Marama Davidson, who was demonstrating in support of trans rights, was hit by a motorcycle at a pedestrian crossing. A convoy of motorcyclists had appeared at the protest in support of Keen-Minshull."

    etc.

    It's one of the reasons I don't particularly like protests or counter-protests (as I literally ran into on Saturday). *Your* motives and beliefs may be honourable and good, but the same may not be said for too many of the people on 'your' side of the barriers. But that's my personal choice: if others wish to protest legally and civilly so be it.
    I’ve not looked into this as I’m not taking sides

    But “hit by A motorcycle” is interesting. It sounds bad.

    But was the motorcycle really going at speed in a crowd? Or was it nudged forward because she was refusing to get out of the way? Was it deliberate or just a glancing knock with, say, the handlebar in a confirmed space?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
    Ugh.

    Sadly her plans to stand in Sheffield Central do not fill me with joy.
    They should. You get a chance to actively campaign against here
    Nah. Campaigning against the New Right Populists is like the old adage of wrestling with a muddy pig.

    You end up covered in mud yourself and the pig enjoys the attention.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    "Some of the people she knows" - that's pretty smeary; she's gone on the record to say she abhors such beliefs.

    She might simply be of the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend which, whilst politically inadvisable, doesn't make her a white supremacist nor a nazi.

    Meanwhile, some of the antifa lot at her rally seemed to have far more in common with the actual fascists that they claim to oppose.

    Some men just enjoy violence and hating - they think this gives them an excuse to freely indulge in their basest instincts.
    Chris Williamson say he isn’t an anti-semite.

    Judge people by their actions not their words.

    She always ends up getting interviewed with some interesting views on white genocide.
    The moment Chris Williamson said he wasn't an anti-Semite, and people who said that he was were agents of an international Israeli conspiracy to discredit him, was the moment Labour lost what little credibility they had left on the issue.

    To misquote Jeremy Corbyn, Williamson doesn't understand English irony.
  • Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?

    (Snip img)

    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/
    I've seen the videos, and read other reports. You know, getting both sides of the story. I'd recommend it. It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst.

    Is violence against women by trans people a significant problem in New Zealand? If so, why are trans people seen as the biggest threat, and worthy of this much hatred?

    As for the cartoon: I had no idea who 'Georgina Beyer' is/was, until you posted it. As such, I have no real idea if it denotes a 'good' or 'bad' look, or indeed the point the cartoon is trying to make, as I'm unsure what the 'spirit' of Georgina Beyer was. It seems she was trans; but I have no idea what her 'spirit' would be in relation to the TERF movement.
    Men who identify as trans aren’t specifically the problem. Male violence against women is the problem - as was demonstrated in Auckland. This isn’t a “trans” issue, it’s a “women’s rights” issue, and if you think that’s going away you’ll be disappointed. Meanwhile SKS appears to be back pedalling on GRR, acknowledging the need to take the public with you.
    (dons flameproof coat)

    No, it is a trans issue, because you only ever go on about trans people wrt it. That's a clear indicator that you're not actually interested in safety of women, only in bashing trans. Hence why you drag up a story from New Zealand.

    I'd also argue the problem is violence in general, not just against women. There is too much violence in society, and too much acceptance of violence. Quite how we get away from that, I don't know...
    Why is a story in the news about a violent assault (mainly by men) against a women’s rights speaker “dragging it up”. You appear to want “no debate”. Those days are over. This is about male privilege and the erosion of women’s rights to single sex spaces and single sex sports categories. Though with recent decisions some of that at least may be on the turn. Do you agree with World Athletics position?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    It’s only a non issue if politicians don’t make it one - as the SNP did. Ironically voters while in general support making change of gender easier, they oppose most of the changes that would make it so.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618
    As I said yesterday, I happened to run past through Honor Oak on Saturday, just when there was a protest going on about a drag storytime event at a pub. (*) I chatted to a couple of the *many* policemen in the area, and he said a group was protesting the Storytime event (I wonder if they also protest pantomimes?), and a larger number of groups were counter-protesting the protestors.

    One of the groups there was apparently Extinction Rebellion (I guess as counter-protestors). Quite why XR feel the need to turn up at this sort of event indicates (to me, at least), that it is more about protesting than a cause.

    As an aside, the number of police vans about, and police, must have had a significant cost.

    (*) Yes, it was a coincidence. I had no idea it was going to be on; it is part of my series of marathon runs from Cambridge to Brighton.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    edited March 2023
    The real significance of this week isn’t so much popularity as political capital - Sunak is putting the Johnson era to bed and starting to build the capital and credibility to be able to act at some point during the year, marginalise the nutters and swing the party back towards a more moderate positioning akin to the Cameron era.

    Of course being able to act and being brave and willing enough to act are very different things, and Sunak has the problem that behind the nutters still stand many of the members.

    Major after Thatcher is a valid comparison - the other two questions are whether the economy will be visibly past the worst by 2024 (actually looking more likely than it did last year IMO) and whether the other side of the comparison holds - in ‘92 many generally but vaguely admired Kinnock for having taken on his own nutters, but the election was the first time people really looked at him as a possible national leader, and the judgement of the campaign, helped along by Kinnock’s own hubris, was ‘no thanks’ and people went for the safer choice. I’d guess Starmer is very well aware of the risks - Rawnsley just recently reported that the Labour top team are still haunted by 1992.

    One thing we can be certain of: Labour won’t be re-enacting the Nuremberg Rally on eve of poll 2024!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    DavidL said:

    Verdict on Sturgeon:

    NICOLA Sturgeon had good intentions and some worthwhile achievements in education. But the verdict is mostly that she failed.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s interest in policing started with her telling Chief Constable Sir Steve House in 2015 to fetch his coat.

    Then came the probe into Alex Salmond and pressure to downplay the pandemic lawbreaking of her Chief Medical Officer, Catherine Calderwood.

    Other than that, policing was a stone in her shoe — she knew it was there but couldn’t quite be bothered to do anything about it….

    THERE are really only two words to describe Nicola Sturgeon’s legacy on the economy: dismal failure.….

    NICOLA Sturgeon’s legacy can be summed up as winning elections but ultimately failing to win more of the public over to the independence cause.…

    NICOLA Sturgeon has the right, progressive vision for the NHS.

    She’s committed to universal free care — and knows the importance of good public health, particularly in dealing with health inequalities.

    But where she has not performed as well is in delivery.….

    Politicians are obsessed with their legacies. Nicola Sturgeon is no different.

    The Scottish Child Payment and more-generous spending on services than England are worth boasting about.

    Ms Sturgeon aimed to persuade Scots this showed she could be trusted with independence.

    Yet, arguably, such spending can only be afforded due to us, as part of the UK, getting more money per head than down south.…


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10424471/inside-nicola-sturgeon-legacy-experts-run-rule/

    They think she has achieved something in education? Wow.
    The full section on education:

    Her main achievement is the Scottish Child Payment, now £25 per week for each child in low-income homes.

    Relieving poverty can improve school attainment.

    But the impact on family income is like the tax credits from the last Labour Government.

    The policy is powerful, but not specific to Sturgeon.

    There have also been failures. She aimed to close the gap in school attainment caused by poverty.

    tudies, comparing schools across the world.

    They show that Scottish attainment has slipped. The attainment gap has narrowed only because the standards of affluent pupils have fallen.

    Equality through dumbing-down is nothing to be proud of.

    This decline is due in part to the new school curriculum.

    It’s narrower. It’s less challenging. Class sizes have crept up despite SNP promises to reduce them.

    Sturgeon can boast entry to university by students from the poorest areas has grown. But they still have worse chances than in the rest of the UK.

    Local colleges are better at widening access than the universities. Yet Sturgeon’s Government has starved them of funds.

    It was also unimpressive on Covid’s effect on education. Schools were closed without proper attention to supporting home learning.

    So attainment declined and inequality widened. Other countries, including England, handled the impact on education much better.


    They did worse than England? Fucking hell, that's bad.

    It would be a resigning matter if the SNP did resignations.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,618

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?

    (Snip img)

    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    In a country where violence against women is a significant problem:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-has-high-female-murder-rate/
    I've seen the videos, and read other reports. You know, getting both sides of the story. I'd recommend it. It seems habitual protestors and complainers on both sides were doing what they do worst.

    Is violence against women by trans people a significant problem in New Zealand? If so, why are trans people seen as the biggest threat, and worthy of this much hatred?

    As for the cartoon: I had no idea who 'Georgina Beyer' is/was, until you posted it. As such, I have no real idea if it denotes a 'good' or 'bad' look, or indeed the point the cartoon is trying to make, as I'm unsure what the 'spirit' of Georgina Beyer was. It seems she was trans; but I have no idea what her 'spirit' would be in relation to the TERF movement.
    Men who identify as trans aren’t specifically the problem. Male violence against women is the problem - as was demonstrated in Auckland. This isn’t a “trans” issue, it’s a “women’s rights” issue, and if you think that’s going away you’ll be disappointed. Meanwhile SKS appears to be back pedalling on GRR, acknowledging the need to take the public with you.
    (dons flameproof coat)

    No, it is a trans issue, because you only ever go on about trans people wrt it. That's a clear indicator that you're not actually interested in safety of women, only in bashing trans. Hence why you drag up a story from New Zealand.

    I'd also argue the problem is violence in general, not just against women. There is too much violence in society, and too much acceptance of violence. Quite how we get away from that, I don't know...
    Why is a story in the news about a violent assault (mainly by men) against a women’s rights speaker “dragging it up”. You appear to want “no debate”. Those days are over. This is about male privilege and the erosion of women’s rights to single sex spaces and single sex sports categories. Though with recent decisions some of that at least may be on the turn. Do you agree with World Athletics position?
    Lordy, when have I ever said that I don't want a debate? What do you think we're doing now? (And I might remind you that you've played the 'mansplaining' card in the past to shut down debate).

    "This is about male privilege"

    Oddly, I think it's about removing rights from trans people.

    I don't agree with World Athletic's position - if, as I believe is the case, it is a blanket ban. All sports are different, and it should be up to individual sporting bodies to decide, with the default being for inclusion, not exclusion.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited March 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    edited March 2023
    Very surprised we’re not getting more coverage of events in Israel as the country’s democracy stands on the verge of collapse. Looks like a familiar tale: yet another hard right, populist, nationalist seeking to subvert the rule of law in order to escape scrutiny and thwart opposition. But it seems as if the Israeli people aren’t having it. Good on them.

    It’s notable that when Netanyahu was in London last week Suella Braverman was the only minister happy to be seen in public with him. Peas in a pod.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited March 2023


    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.

    Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    Indeed.

    The trans issue as an issue isn't that important to voters. However, what Sturgeon showed - and Sir Keir has noticed - is that if you let it become perceived as an important part of your political programme, you risk losing credibility quickly, because "you can't even define what a woman is".
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:


    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.

    Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
    It is a public accounts committee.

    Of course, Llafur never admit fraud. That is why Wales (uniquely in the UK) has no proper inquiry into the handling of Covid by its government. It is also why the Senedd (uniquely in the UK) has no register of lobbyists.

    No doubt today will be mainly about Scotland.

    The real achievement of Salmond & Sturgeon has -- in my opinion -- been to show the Scottish people that an alternative to corrupt and insular Labour rule in Holyrood was possible.

    Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales because of this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    It’s only a non issue if politicians don’t make it one - as the SNP did. Ironically voters while in general support making change of gender easier, they oppose most of the changes that would make it so.
    Self ID is backed by a majority, IIRC.

    Sturgeon refused to accept anything other than the absolute position. The amendments dealt with the genuine safeguarding issues. She then claimed that anyone would had any concerns was basically a Nazi, then turned around and limited the rights of a trans person by arbitrary fiat.

    Everyone has their rights are limited by law.

    The limitations of such rights should be in law, rather than the arbitrary whim of a politician.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Sean_F said:

    Right of centre parties won 47% in 2019. The large majority of that 47% will vote for right of centre parties in 2024, unless Boris/Truss are deliberately alienating them.

    The idea that the Conservatives would win fewer seats than in 1997 was always fanciful.

    Insert obvious comment about whether Starmer’s Labour is right of centre here.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    hmmm

    posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?

    there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405

    ydoethur said:


    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.

    Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
    It is a public accounts committee.

    Of course, Llafur never admit fraud. That is why Wales (uniquely in the UK) has no proper inquiry into the handling of Covid by its government. It is also why the Senedd (uniquely in the UK) has no register of lobbyists.

    No doubt today will be mainly about Scotland.

    The real achievement of Salmond & Sturgeon has -- in my opinion -- been to show the Scottish people that an alternative to corrupt and insular Labour rule in Holyrood was possible.

    Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales because of this.
    that alternative being corrupt and insular SNP ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:


    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.

    Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
    It is a public accounts committee.

    Of course, Llafur never admit fraud. That is why Wales (uniquely in the UK) has no proper inquiry into the handling of Covid by its government. It is also why the Senedd (uniquely in the UK) has no register of lobbyists.

    No doubt today will be mainly about Scotland.

    The real achievement of Salmond & Sturgeon has -- in my opinion -- been to show the Scottish people that an alternative to corrupt and insular Labour rule in Holyrood was possible.

    Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales because of this.
    I have often thought it was a tragedy on all levels that the Welsh Liberal Democrats flunked the rainbow coalition back in 2007.

    Not only would it have given Welsh Labour much needed time in the wilderness to get rid of dead wood (*shudder* Leighton Andrews *shudder*) but it would have established that Wales could have a transfer of government.

    Moreover, it would have made the Liberal Democrats more careful about their behaviour in coalition in London to be seen to be standing up for their values. If they hadn't decided on confidence and supply only.

    Finally, no party has ever really replaced Ieuan Wyn Jones as a plausible alternative first minister to the hacks that have succeeded Morgan.

    If that coalition had gone ahead it would have helped a lot. Even if it had only last 12-18 months.

    As it is Wales is still fecked.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited March 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    hmmm

    posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?

    there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.

    That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'

    But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    hmmm

    posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?

    there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.

    Long, but worth it…

    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8425

    Hagiographic to Caesar - yes. But often explains Late Roman Republic politics better than many other accounts.

    The system was broken. Those in charge claimed that The Way Of The Fathers meant that nothing could be changed. They systematically killed (literally) all attempts at reform within the system….
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:


    News from Corruption Bay (Bae Caerdydd, historically Tiger Bay)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65064256

    Mismanagement of public accounts cost Wales £155.5m at the height of Covid, according to a Senedd committee. The Welsh government failed to spend the extra cash by March 2021 and had to give it back to the UK government.

    Meanwhile, Welsh government estimates put the amount of fraud and error in a Covid business grant scheme between £700,000 and £37m in 2020-21.

    It is the fact that the fraud estimate is so uncertain that is astonishing.

    Is it? My experience of Welsh Labour suggests the really surprising thing is they've admitted there was fraud.
    It is a public accounts committee.

    Of course, Llafur never admit fraud. That is why Wales (uniquely in the UK) has no proper inquiry into the handling of Covid by its government. It is also why the Senedd (uniquely in the UK) has no register of lobbyists.

    No doubt today will be mainly about Scotland.

    The real achievement of Salmond & Sturgeon has -- in my opinion -- been to show the Scottish people that an alternative to corrupt and insular Labour rule in Holyrood was possible.

    Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales because of this.
    that alternative being corrupt and insular SNP ?
    There is some corruption in all parties that attain power. I am not aware of any evidence that the SNP are particularly corrupt.

    However, the point of course is that the SNP provided a viable alternative.

    In Wales, Llafur have been in power since 1999. And the one-party state shows no sign of ending.

    That is bad. Bad for Wales and bad for Llafur and bad for competent Government.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Andrew Doyle on the Auckland fiasco:

    Protesters at @ThePosieParker’s Let Women Speak event in New Zealand turned violent - and the police were nowhere to be seen.

    My thoughts from tonight’s episode of Free Speech Nation…
    [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1640082435806310401

    That's a pretty disturbing clip.
    It’s ironic that a LET WOMEN SPEAK rally about women’s fears of male violence was shut down by….male violence - yet the NZ commentariate are patting themselves on the back thinking they had a great day and the seventy year old woman punched in the face “had it coming”.
    Perhaps the "NZ commentariate" have a clearer view of what went on than you do?
    I’ve seen the videos, not denying their content. Have you?

    Do you think this is a good look?



    https://twitter.com/rodemmerson/status/1639721176560975873?s=20

    Are we sure 'Posie Parker' hasn't organised this herself?

    She's aligned herself with pretty extreme people, people who want the UK and the West to be a white ethno state, she's also praised Tommy Robinson.

    Some of the people she knows have a history of launching false flag riots.

    Lucky for me, she's planning on standing in Sheffield at the next general election, she's already brought her poison to my part of the world.
    It’s just like the NI peace process. The most extreme knuckle draggers are the winners.

    But don’t worry. They will be displaced. By some more extreme people.
    Ugh.

    Sadly her plans to stand in Sheffield Central do not fill me with joy.
    They should. You get a chance to actively campaign against here
    True, when will I get a better opportunity to lob a bottle of piss at her?

    (That’s a joke btw.)
    Oh of course - even funnier if you'd said acid - then you'd be up for a job on the beeb.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    hmmm

    posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?

    there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.

    That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'

    But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
    Imo this was all to do with the so called Third Way when chancers took over the left and left their traditional supporters behind. Eventually they disenfranchised a chunk of their own base. All summed ny Mr Mandelson who didnt mind people getting filthy rich and who thought traditional labour supporters had nowhere else to go.

    When they got tired of sucking it up it turned out they did have other places to go.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Malmesbury, not my period but not so long ago read something on the Late Republic which was of interest.

    https://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2021/07/review-concise-history-of-republican.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Mr. Password, they probably want the headline that comes with banning laughing gas possession.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited March 2023

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    hmmm

    posts like that always make me wonder why posters never ask why are people voting that way ?

    there were enough warnings out there to say things are going awry but the politicians and their supporters who were doing well out if the system didnt want to listen or change anything. Then when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.

    That is a good question. And I think that's one reason why people assumed Netanyahu's poison wouldn't apply elsewhere. 'It's due to paranoia after the Holocaust and the occupation,' they all said. 'Those are unique to Israel.'

    But the real causes ran much deeper and people didn't want to look. Not until the GFC stripped them bare, by which time it was rather too late.
    Imo this was all to do with the so called Third Way when chancers took over the left and left their traditional supporters behind. Eventually they disenfranchised a chunk of their own base. All summed ny Mr Mandelson who didnt mind people getting filthy rich and who thought traditional labour supporters had nowhere else to go.

    When they got tired of sucking it up it turned out they did have other places to go.
    That's a symptom of it, rather than a cause.

    Ultimately, the economic and nationalist forces unleashed in the 1980s and amplified by the development of the internet tended to favour (a) the ones who already had wealth, to the considerable disadvantage of those who didn't and (b) demagogues who mastered catchy soundbites and offered simple solutions to all our ills ahead of detailed, reasoned analysis. A toxic mix in the aftermath of an economic contraction.

    What's slightly unusual about Netanyahu is how early he was in the field. And that may be due to the peculiar circumstances of Israel, and it may be due to him being rather more plausible and effective than the rest.

    Snag is he's actually worse than most of them as well.
  • Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    It’s only a non issue if politicians don’t make it one - as the SNP did. Ironically voters while in general support making change of gender easier, they oppose most of the changes that would make it so.
    Do you understand how politics works? A party could go out and Make A Stand on an issue. Save the Pound! said William Hague, you MUST be worried about this because I say you are so you must Vote Conservative to Save the Pound!

    Nobody cared. Non-issue, didn't move the polls at all. Politicians can make anything they like into an issue, but if it doesn't motivate people to vote, politically its a non-issue. Voters say what they are concerned about and politicians act accordingly, not the other way round.

    No matter how many times a politician might ask "Are you thinking what we're thinking" when the answer is "no" they are sunk. Almost nobody in Scotland is thinking as the SNP were on this issue. They just don't care about it, and wish the government would focus on actual issues.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Why does the government think that its attempt to criminalise possession of nitrous oxide is going to be any more successful than existing bans on possession of cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, cannabis, etc?

    What a waste of fecking time.

    You are suggesting that a hundred years of total failure is a reason not to apply the same policy?

    This is polticalbetting.com

    rationalsolutionbetting.com is over there - take a right, then a left, then about 3000 miles….
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Israel's medical association announces a "full strike in the health system" - Channel 12
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1640250460081737730

    I do hope Netanyahu is finally removed and locked up in prison where he belongs.

    In many ways worse than Trump, because he's both smoother and more plausible but also far more radical.

    He really was the canary in the coal mine for the populist right in the 1990s, that we see coming to fruition in America, India, Russia, the Philippines, Venezuela, Brazil, Mexico, Britain, Italy...it's a long old list.

    But unfortunately his manner and political skill meant most of us didn't see what was coming.
    Israel appears to be a society even more polarised than the US, so perhaps Netenyahu us as much symptom as he is cause.
  • Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though

    Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2023

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    It’s only a non issue if politicians don’t make it one - as the SNP did. Ironically voters while in general support making change of gender easier, they oppose most of the changes that would make it so.
    Do you understand how politics works? A party could go out and Make A Stand on an issue. Save the Pound! said William Hague, you MUST be worried about this because I say you are so you must Vote Conservative to Save the Pound!

    Nobody cared. Non-issue, didn't move the polls at all. Politicians can make anything they like into an issue, but if it doesn't motivate people to vote, politically its a non-issue. Voters say what they are concerned about and politicians act accordingly, not the other way round.

    No matter how many times a politician might ask "Are you thinking what we're thinking" when the answer is "no" they are sunk. Almost nobody in Scotland is thinking as the SNP were on this issue. They just don't care about it, and wish the government would focus on actual issues.
    How they laughed!

    5th February 2023

    "Writing in The Sunday Times, the former SNP deputy leader Jill Sillars says: “It may infuriate Nicola Sturgeon, but it seems that JK Rowling’s political judgment is superior: the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill will be Sturgeon’s poll tax."

    Oooh!


    https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1621949934181253120?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    One of Europe’s largest ammo makers can’t expand to meet rise in demand due to Russia’s war in Ukraine because a TikTok data center’s using all spare power in the area, @rmilneNordic writes. “[O]ur future growth is challenged by the storage of cat videos.”
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1640255236840226816
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Heathener said:

    I do have a fear, which is all-too-depressing, that the anti-woke culture wars will stir up a sufficient number of the indignant right to stop a colossal Labour victory. The fact that people endlessly bang on about a pointless sideshow narrative (trans rights), as evidenced on here by carlotta and his stuck needle, is depressing.

    However, I suspect that come the General Election proper, the trans issue will burn brightly for a couple of days as the Daily Malicious vents its spleen and then will pass.

    Most people will realise that we had all of this nonsense, and exactly the same arguments, with gay rights 40 years ago and that there are FAR more pressing and important matters that we face than whether Steve in the neighbouring town wishes to self-identify as Susan. (I didn't put 'Steve next door' because most people don't have a trans neighbour and never will).

    As you were.

    Scotland is a good tester for this theory. I kept pointing out that the row over the GRR bill was largely irrelevant as nobody who wasn't shouting cared about it. IRRELEVANT??? they screamed.

    And then came the polling. Putting GRR third bottom on the list of voters' concerns. Not an issue for an electorate who (shockingly) care about jobs services and prosperity, not gender ID issues.

    For the handful of mouthfoamers who are obsessed by fear it is THE issue. For almost everyone else it is a non-issue politically.
    Except voters saw it as the SNP ‘s second top priority second only to independence. Who were the mouth foamers?
    You have made the point for me. The polls showed that voters thought it was the SNP's 2nd top priority. For *the voters* it was their 3rd bottom priority.

    Voters do not care about this issue. As demonstrated by the polls The SNP went way off piste and if they elect Forbes today the issue gets quickly dropped. Or if they elect Yousaf it gets slowly dropped.

    Either way, voters do not care. It is a non-issue for them.
    The voters do care about a perceived disconnect between their priorities and those of the governing party though

    Sure - they want politicians to focus on the issues. GRR is a non-issue, a distraction from the issues. If they carried on with it then it could turn into a polling issue. But not because anyone cares about it, because they don't.
    The fact that you keep saying it suggests it's more of an issue than you quite like...
This discussion has been closed.