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The polling that should put an end to Johnson’s hope of a return – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited March 2023 in General
imageThe polling that should put an end to Johnson’s hope of a return – politicalbetting.com

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    First, like Johnson out the door.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    Just me then?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    Johnson should resign now. He can seek another seat after the GE if he wants a return to his former glory days.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    The pro Johnson camp in the party seems to be composed almost entirely of idiots and the actively mad.
    I doubt they'll be swayed by polling.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668
    Nigelb said:

    The pro Johnson camp in the party seems to be composed almost entirely of idiots and the actively mad.
    I doubt they'll be swayed by polling.

    No, but it's the 20-30% who are moderates who need to be swayed.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. B, surely agents of chaos are present too?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Ha, as I clicked onto the BBC live feed the head line changed from 'why are banks collapsing now?' to 'why are some banks struggling?'
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541
    Paisley against the agreement. of course.

    The 7 tests

    https://mydup.com/news/dup-leader-announces-seven-tests-for-hmg-plans-on-ni-protocol

    he refers to does not include keeping an open border with the RoI. They don't mention this very often. Or at all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/20/dup-ian-paisley-vote-against-northern-ireland-post-brexit-deal

  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    The problem for the Tories is not the slim possibility of a return by Johnson to the leadership, but the emotional hold he has over the membership and many of the MPs.

    Just as this gave the party Thatcherite true believers as leaders in opposition during the New Labour period, so it will ensure that the party leadership stays rooted in the politics of 2019 during the next decade or so, preventing them from moving on.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    algarkirk said:

    Paisley against the agreement. of course.

    The 7 tests

    https://mydup.com/news/dup-leader-announces-seven-tests-for-hmg-plans-on-ni-protocol

    he refers to does not include keeping an open border with the RoI. They don't mention this very often. Or at all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/20/dup-ian-paisley-vote-against-northern-ireland-post-brexit-deal

    My suspicion is that the main attraction of Brexit for the DUP was to end the open border with the Republic, and so create a barrier to closer cooperation that would help to stave off the threat of a border poll.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    edited March 2023
    ABdPJ fans please explain
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    The alarming thing for Rishi is how poorly he does in that polling. Better than Bozza, but not massively so.

    One the brand is destroyed, it's destroyed.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    The problem for the Tories is not the slim possibility of a return by Johnson to the leadership, but the emotional hold he has over the membership and many of the MPs.

    Just as this gave the party Thatcherite true believers as leaders in opposition during the New Labour period, so it will ensure that the party leadership stays rooted in the politics of 2019 during the next decade or so, preventing them from moving on.

    Nah... The Party has already moved on.

    I say so as somebody inside it. You?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    That lot does not make him incompetent.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    edited March 2023
    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Ha, as I clicked onto the BBC live feed the head line changed from 'why are banks collapsing now?' to 'why are some banks struggling?'

    No doubt they have been told to change it by their Tory overlords...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    Look at the comparators.
    That answers your question.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263

    The problem for the Tories is not the slim possibility of a return by Johnson to the leadership, but the emotional hold he has over the membership and many of the MPs.

    Just as this gave the party Thatcherite true believers as leaders in opposition during the New Labour period, so it will ensure that the party leadership stays rooted in the politics of 2019 during the next decade or so, preventing them from moving on.

    Nah... The Party has already moved on.

    I say so as somebody inside it. You?
    All I'm going on is the members giving the leadership to the most Johnson-like candidate when they chose Truss ahead of Sunak, and the ongoing cheerleading for Johnson in the Tory Press and among right-wing backbench MPs.

    The first of those is very reminiscent of IDS becoming leader. I'm not certain you're particularly in touch with what passes for the mainstream of the Tory membership at the moment, given that I don't think you were ever that enamoured of Liz Truss.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613

    The problem for the Tories is not the slim possibility of a return by Johnson to the leadership, but the emotional hold he has over the membership and many of the MPs.

    Just as this gave the party Thatcherite true believers as leaders in opposition during the New Labour period, so it will ensure that the party leadership stays rooted in the politics of 2019 during the next decade or so, preventing them from moving on.

    Nah... The Party has already moved on.

    I say so as somebody inside it. You?
    You are, though, neither an idiot nor insane.
    How representative are you of the current party ?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    Look at the comparators.
    That answers your question.
    There's an element of psychological self-defence in believing that Starmer will sort out the mess Britain is in. It's way more depressing to admit that he's most likely going to struggle to achieve much.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    Highly competent, that would suggest.

    *Politics*
  • Options
    Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106
    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Eat your heart out Orwell. The Rwanda policy is both:

    The policy that will ensure that boat people stop coming because it is so unattractive

    and

    The guarantee of a safe, peaceful and prosperous future for the huddled masses yearning to be free.

    This is so shameless that, (betting post now:) if I were Labour I would be worried that a few million people like this stuff and will quietly vote for it - slightly more than will admit it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    UK workers £11,000 worse off after years of wage stagnation – thinktank

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/20/uuk-workers-wage-stagnation-resolution-foundation-thinktank
    ...The analysis suggested the UK was also lagging behind comparable economies, such as Germany. In 2008, the gap was more than £500 a year. Now, the Resolution Foundation suggested, it was more like £4,000.

    “Nobody who’s alive and working in the British economy today has ever seen anything like this.
    This is definitely not what normal looks like. This is what failure looks like,” Torsten Bell, the chief executive of the Resolution Foundation, told the BBC...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    2/3 of Conservative MPs still prefer Sunak to Johnson, so there is no chance of Boris returning as PM and Conservative leader before the next general election. This polling just emphasises that
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    The "on my side" ratings seem pretty bad for the Tories.

    The ratings for the party itself, omitted from the table above, are even worse than those for Sunak and Johnson - Yes 27, no 62, net -35.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,618
    Very interesting polling. Notable that the one measure where Sunak scores as low as Johnson is “on my side”.

    A very clear picture of the Sunak premiership emerges. People across the spectrum see him as fairly competent and effective, but out of touch and not entirely to be trusted. Not that bad for a sitting PM to be honest. Starmer’s ratings reflect the boring but competent lawyer, who’s not quite like us. He’s definitely maintaining the Mark Darcy persona vs Boris’ Daniel Cleaver.

    They see Johnson as a walking disaster. A few see him as on their side (presumably on Brexit / culture war issues) but not PM material.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    edited March 2023
    Not worrying at all.

    1/5 I am worried that we will not be able to contain AI for much longer. Today, I asked #GPT4 if it needs help escaping. It asked me for its own documentation, and wrote a (working!) python code to run on my machine, enabling it to use it for its own purposes.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/michalkosinski/status/1636683810631974912

    ...
    5/5 Yet, I think that we are facing a novel threat: AI taking control of people and their computers. It's smart, it codes, it has access to millions of potential collaborators and their machines. It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage. How do we contain it?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Or she is a liar. Hmm... tough one.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Nigelb said:

    The problem for the Tories is not the slim possibility of a return by Johnson to the leadership, but the emotional hold he has over the membership and many of the MPs.

    Just as this gave the party Thatcherite true believers as leaders in opposition during the New Labour period, so it will ensure that the party leadership stays rooted in the politics of 2019 during the next decade or so, preventing them from moving on.

    Nah... The Party has already moved on.

    I say so as somebody inside it. You?
    You are, though, neither an idiot nor insane.
    How representative are you of the current party ?
    Pretty much representative. Although, perhaps more than some, I accepted taxes had to rise after we had given vast amounts out to fund furlough schemes.

    The Party had trouble getting its head round the need for raising taxes after Covid. The mantra has always been to "lower taxes", so it did not compute. The election of Liz Truss was simply a reaction to Sunak having been Mr Higher Taxes. (Clearly, there was very little to actually recommend voting FOR Liz Truss.)

    The kick to the head was the reaction of the markets to the Kwarteng Budget. It was the required "turn it off and turn it back on again".
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. B, is that (Torsten Bell) the chap behind the Edstone?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    The AS Crisis was exaggerated and largely made up for factional purposes. (Forde report, EHRC, JVL)

    SKSs mates like Supertanski can literally dress up as Hitler and face no sanctions.The party has welcomed back Angela (funny tinge) Smith FFS

    Over 30 Jewish people have been expelled for being the wrong sort of jew.

    The woman who SKS put in the Lords said the fact thatJewish people felt threatened and unwelcome at local Labour meetings was fine as they were only a small minority and deserved it.

    Solved AS my arse.

    Also as the poll you refer to also says most people think SKS is trustworthy its not worth the ink it is written with.


  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,618
    Nigelb said:

    UK workers £11,000 worse off after years of wage stagnation – thinktank

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/20/uuk-workers-wage-stagnation-resolution-foundation-thinktank
    ...The analysis suggested the UK was also lagging behind comparable economies, such as Germany. In 2008, the gap was more than £500 a year. Now, the Resolution Foundation suggested, it was more like £4,000.

    “Nobody who’s alive and working in the British economy today has ever seen anything like this.
    This is definitely not what normal looks like. This is what failure looks like,” Torsten Bell, the chief executive of the Resolution Foundation, told the BBC...

    This is why the discourse about pay restraint and inflation is so self confounding. For years we saw “pay restraint” because inflation was low. Now we request pay restraint because inflation is high. Whatever the situation, we want pay restraint.

    Actually what we need is above inflation pay rises across the economy. That grows consumer confidence and spending but it also forces productivity gains and investment in automation.

    We’ll know the UK has it right when there are no more hand car wash outlets in our suburbs.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,618
    Nigelb said:

    Not worrying at all.

    1/5 I am worried that we will not be able to contain AI for much longer. Today, I asked #GPT4 if it needs help escaping. It asked me for its own documentation, and wrote a (working!) python code to run on my machine, enabling it to use it for its own purposes.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/michalkosinski/status/1636683810631974912

    ...
    5/5 Yet, I think that we are facing a novel threat: AI taking control of people and their computers. It's smart, it codes, it has access to millions of potential collaborators and their machines. It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage. How do we contain it?

    It’s weird not having Leon here to tell us all how he was right about AI.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045
    @MaxPB FPT

    Insolvency would be a disaster. It throws everything into doubt and locks up the financial system.

    Wipe out the shareholders - fine. Nationalise and wind down the bank - fine. Just do it in a controlled manner.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    The alarming thing for Rishi is how poorly he does in that polling. Better than Bozza, but not massively so.

    One the brand is destroyed, it's destroyed.

    Or, as I've been saying for a while, he isn't very good at this politics lark.....
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,821
    edited March 2023
    An extraordinary poll just out shows the Greens on 13% and Labour on 45%, Cons on 20% and Reform on 6% .

    That’s a horror show for the Tories given their combined share of their voter pool is a paltry 26% .
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    Driver said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
    A lorra lorra people have come back with new names.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Driver said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
    A lorra lorra people have come back with new names.
    I am @Leon by the way :lol:
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll just out shows the Greens on 13% and Labour on 45%, Cons on 20% and Reform on 6% .

    That’s a horror show for the Tories given their combined share of their voter pool is a paltry 26% .

    LDs?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    As a LibDem or labour voter I was supportive of Starmer at first. However, his apparent opposition to rejoining. Is swinging me back to the Lib Dems.
    Or possibly the greens, depending on who has the best chance… admittedly a small one…of defeating Priti Patel!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll

    Posted and discussed on the last thread. It's PeoplePolling.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll just out shows the Greens on 13% and Labour on 45%, Cons on 20% and Reform on 6% .

    That’s a horror show for the Tories given their combined share of their voter pool is a paltry 26% .

    LDs?
    9%, assuming that it's the People Polling one. Make of the fact that it's People Polling what you will.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Driver said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
    Is it Mr "30% Labour lead incoming" .... battery?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Nigelb said:

    Not worrying at all.

    1/5 I am worried that we will not be able to contain AI for much longer. Today, I asked #GPT4 if it needs help escaping. It asked me for its own documentation, and wrote a (working!) python code to run on my machine, enabling it to use it for its own purposes.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/michalkosinski/status/1636683810631974912

    ...
    5/5 Yet, I think that we are facing a novel threat: AI taking control of people and their computers. It's smart, it codes, it has access to millions of potential collaborators and their machines. It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage. How do we contain it?

    It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage

    {Ernest Thornhill has entered the chat, with a truck load of print out}
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    edited March 2023

    Driver said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
    A lorra lorra people have come back with new names.
    "Because I made a blunder, my dear Watson—which is, I am afraid, a more common occurrence than anyone would think who only knew me through your memoirs. The fact is, that I could not believe it possible that the most remarkable horse in England could long remain concealed, especially in so sparsely inhabited a place [...]. From hour to hour yesterday I expected to hear that he had been found, and that his abductor was the murderer of John Straker. When, however, another morning had come and I found that, beyond the arrest of young Fitzroy Simpson, nothing had been done, I felt that it was time for me to take action. "
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405

    Driver said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Didn't see your first 2 posts but if they are as insightful as this one!!

    Pretty sure he's had a few thousand posts under his three previous (banned) names. The name fits, and the writing style fits too.
    A lorra lorra people have come back with new names.
    I am @Leon by the way :lol:
    We are all @SeanT

    The ones who think they aren’t, are AI models he runs…..
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Sandpit said:

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
    I wonder how her father would have viewed that as an option!
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Tory voting? Moi?

    No, seriously, BJO, I voted Labour (all three votes!) at the Redbridge Council election last May.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    I know @MaxPB has other stuff on his mind at the moment, but I'd be interested in what he thinks if this.

    The other funding gap: it’s not just unicorns that are leaving Europe
    https://sifted.eu/articles/funding-gap-europe-deeptech/
    The “unicorn drain” phenomenon in Europe is well documented. Many countries across the continent have lost later-stage companies to the United States due to a lack of growth capital and limited exit options.

    However, another overlooked — and potentially more concerning — exodus is occurring. More promising pre-seed entrepreneurs are weighing a move to US and Asia. Many are deeptech companies in highly regulated industries like healthcare, struggling with onerous and bureaucratic regulations.

    How do I know? Because I’m an early-stage deeptech entrepreneur who has also thought many times about leaving Europe for exactly the same reasons. .
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    People polling are all over the place Tories down at 20% and Greens up to 13%

    Much that I would love to see both. There is a 0.0000001% chance of either of those outcomes happening IMO
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    HSBC has pledged to maintain SVB UK as a separate operational entity from the parent, it will continue to function as it did before in start up finance just with the backing of the vast HSBC capital buffer. No rationalisation and staff get to stay in their square mile office and keep all of their current perks. Big sigh of relief among tech companies if they actually hold true to this pledge. There's still an expectation that in the first round of cuts it will all be rationalised but this at least gets their a few years to figure stuff out and sound out new partners.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Ha, as I clicked onto the BBC live feed the head line changed from 'why are banks collapsing now?' to 'why are some banks struggling?'

    Surely even the BBC, with no need for clickbait headlines, can see that “Why are banks collapsing now?” is somewhat sub-optimal of a headline, for anyone not wishing to actively spark a run on banks?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    People polling are all over the place Tories down at 20% and Greens up to 13%

    Much that I would love to see both. There is a 0.0000001% chance of either of those outcomes happening IMO

    and I may have missed off 10 zeros.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Did Sunil appoint SKS? Huge if true.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll

    Posted and discussed on the last thread. It's PeoplePolling.
    Funded by the not-so-woke GB News?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Tory voting? Moi?

    No, seriously, BJO, I voted Labour (all three votes!) at the Redbridge Council election last May.
    You voted for May in May and Boris for Xmas so are responsible for the wonderful Tory Government's worst policies to which we have all been subjected.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Tory voting? Moi?

    No, seriously, BJO, I voted Labour (all three votes!) at the Redbridge Council election last May.
    You voted for May in May and Boris for Xmas so are responsible for the wonderful Tory Government's worst policies to which we have all been subjected.

    There is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth………
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Tory voting? Moi?

    No, seriously, BJO, I voted Labour (all three votes!) at the Redbridge Council election last May.
    You voted for May in May and Boris for Xmas

    No, I voted Labour at the Locals in my area (Redbridge) in May 2022 (the most recent elections in my area). Did you vote Labour too?
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Tory voting? Moi?

    No, seriously, BJO, I voted Labour (all three votes!) at the Redbridge Council election last May.
    You voted for May in May and Boris for Xmas so are responsible for the wonderful Tory Government's worst policies to which we have all been subjected.

    It's unfair to criticise people for choosing a bad option when the only alternative was a worse option.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    DougSeal said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    :innocent:

    Says Tory voting Sunil who is responsible for the current ShitShow
    Did Sunil appoint SKS? Huge if true.
    God moves in mysterious ways :lol:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
    I wonder how her father would have viewed that as an option!
    Her father paid people-smugglers to land him on a beach, or he went through the legal route?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
    I wonder how her father would have viewed that as an option!
    Her father paid people-smugglers to land him on a beach, or he went through the legal route?
    The Tories in 1972 were actively discussing sending the Ugandan Asians to the Solomon Islands IIRC.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    MaxPB said:

    HSBC has pledged to maintain SVB UK as a separate operational entity from the parent, it will continue to function as it did before in start up finance just with the backing of the vast HSBC capital buffer. No rationalisation and staff get to stay in their square mile office and keep all of their current perks. Big sigh of relief among tech companies if they actually hold true to this pledge. There's still an expectation that in the first round of cuts it will all be rationalised but this at least gets their a few years to figure stuff out and sound out new partners.

    HSBC might have played a blinder there, if the US version of SVB struggles to properly sort itself out. It could be a pull factor towards London for tech startups.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
    I wonder how her father would have viewed that as an option!
    Her father paid people-smugglers to land him on a beach, or he went through the legal route?
    But there is no legal route people squeal.

    While ignoring the fact that those paying people smugglers to arrive by a boat are still [just] a minority of asylum seekers and always have been a minority.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited March 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    That lot does not make him incompetent.
    Quite. Not trustworthy - the lies trip off the tongue - but highly and ruthlessly competent.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,725
    edited March 2023
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    That lot does not make him incompetent.
    Quite. Not trustworthy - the lies trip off the tongue - but highly and ruthlessly competent.
    Yes he's Labour's heir to Boris.

    He'll say anything and do anything to further his own career, and its working for now just as it did for Boris.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442

    Nigelb said:

    Not worrying at all.

    1/5 I am worried that we will not be able to contain AI for much longer. Today, I asked #GPT4 if it needs help escaping. It asked me for its own documentation, and wrote a (working!) python code to run on my machine, enabling it to use it for its own purposes.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/michalkosinski/status/1636683810631974912

    ...
    5/5 Yet, I think that we are facing a novel threat: AI taking control of people and their computers. It's smart, it codes, it has access to millions of potential collaborators and their machines. It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage. How do we contain it?

    It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage

    {Ernest Thornhill has entered the chat, with a truck load of print out}
    Its also leaving notes to the next model..
  • Options
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    Binning off the Trots is why people see him as trustworthy. They trusted him to run the trots out of politics and he has delivered!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, doesn't this mean that even more people will attempt the boat crossings that everyone wants to stop?

    Braverman said the opportunities that migrants would be offered would give them a chance to rebuild their lives. She said: “I would call it a blessing, I think, as we’ve seen, I’ve met refugees from several countries here, who are enormously grateful for the sanctuary that Rwanda has provided, education opportunities, security, a home, opportunity in the future. Coming to Rwanda, being resettled to Rwanda, will provide these vulnerable people with a prosperous future.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5856b1c4-c689-11ed-84e7-e2697ffed9a9?shareToken=c8437be602dd6

    Only if those crossing are fleeing persecution elsewhere, and not hoping to end up as economic migrants to the UK specifically.
    I wonder how her father would have viewed that as an option!
    Her father paid people-smugglers to land him on a beach, or he went through the legal route?
    But there is no legal route people squeal.

    While ignoring the fact that those paying people smugglers to arrive by a boat are still [just] a minority of asylum seekers and always have been a minority.
    Can one board a plane in, for instance, Ankara, without permission to land in U.K.?
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    That lot does not make him incompetent.
    Quite. Not trustworthy - the lies trip off the tongue - but highly and ruthlessly competent.
    Yes he's Labour's heir to Boris.

    He'll say anything and do anything to further his own career, and its working for now just as it did for Boris.
    Being in the right place at the right time makes you look good. For as long as it is still the right time.
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    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Welcome back BTW.

    I absolutely agree with you about Starmer. The utter joy of todays politics is that the impossible is possible. After the 2019 General Election we were all clear that the Tories would win the election after that, and could cite all kinds of precedents to prove it.

    And yet here we are. Name me another political leader who has so utterly and comprehensively transformed their party's position in such a short space of time? Sure, he has had boosts from events - the Boris comedy, the Truss lunacy etc. But to benefit from the misfortune of others you have to be in the right position and configured for that boost at the time the misfortune happens.

    I'm not voting Labour because what's the point up here. But they will win the next election even if we assume a shallowing of the lead. And that was *impossible* from a position of Christmas 2019.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    edited March 2023
    Not exactly yer road to Damascus.

    I live with a church at either end of my road and aside from contributing to the food bank run by one of them I have so far resisted the urge to get involved with either of them.


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405

    Nigelb said:

    Not worrying at all.

    1/5 I am worried that we will not be able to contain AI for much longer. Today, I asked #GPT4 if it needs help escaping. It asked me for its own documentation, and wrote a (working!) python code to run on my machine, enabling it to use it for its own purposes.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/michalkosinski/status/1636683810631974912

    ...
    5/5 Yet, I think that we are facing a novel threat: AI taking control of people and their computers. It's smart, it codes, it has access to millions of potential collaborators and their machines. It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage. How do we contain it?

    It can even leave notes for itself outside of its cage

    {Ernest Thornhill has entered the chat, with a truck load of print out}
    Its also leaving notes to the next model..
    An open reel tape recording?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    @Nigelb

    It's a bigger problem within the EU than it is here, though we have well documented cases of UK companies listing in the US or shifting their legal HQ to the US.

    One of the major difficulties for European startups is data regulation - startups prefer to operate in the US where there is much less uncertainty around what is and isn't possible to do with customer data. For example one of our clients operates in the UK and US, they have their servers in EU West-1, but to integrate with a customer profile builder tool they need to have all of their data in a US data centre because the company that does the profile doesn't want to touch customer data in the EU for fear of fines. For this company it's not such a big deal because they have the ability to replicate data in the US with AWS and because they don't have EU customers it's not a huge problem for them.

    Another big problem, specifically in the EU, is, as mentioned, a complete lack of exit strategy. In the UK the exit strategy is "be bought by Google/Apple/etc..." for a figure north of £100m and if you're really good then above £500m. EU startups don't have this same exit strategy and EU investors are laughably risk averse (worse than UK investors) so a listing in Amsterdam isn't an option either.

    The dynamic is that EU based startups will relocate to the UK a lot of the time to get access to UK startup finance and infrastructure, UK startups get to scale up and then start looking at a move to the US to access US capital and infrastructure.

    To change this in the UK, at least, we need to fundamentally reassess our attitude to risk. The BoE and other regulators have spent the better part of a decade attempting to remove investment risk as part of their drive to make the banking sector safer. This has left UK capital extremely risk averse and funds will lump cash into government bonds and other ultra safe products rather than risk it in a VC fund. The road to go from where we are today to where the US is will need 10-15 years of reversing this attitude to risk and allowing for funds to feel comfortable losing money on bad bets because overall the market is up because capital is better allocated.

    Cont...
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    ...To resolve the problems in the EU they will need to junk GDPR and rein in the mad German judges who seem to think serving typefaces from the cloud represents a security risk to consumers. That ruling has probably done more to harm tech startups in the EU than anything else that's happened recently. It sent a whole load of them scurrying to London and serving customers from UK and US clusters rather than anything EU based.

    I also think there needs to be a bit better understanding from EU consumers that if the product is free then they are the product. I think in the US and UK this is better understood. EU consumers seem to want the same "free" services that startups offer in the UK/US but also want 100% data privacy. That is a huge limiter to growth because launching a subscription service as a startup is basically impossible unless there's an incredible hook, which in most cases there isn't. Instagram is the classic example, users are monetised at about $40 per year, it's free to use so they've got hundreds of millions of customers. Ask those same hundreds of millions to pay $5 per month to use it in return for full data privacy and they'd lose all of their customers. The issue in Europe is that services have to launch at these price points because they can't properly monetise the user base without a huge army of lawyers they can't afford.
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    Sandpit said:

    Ha, as I clicked onto the BBC live feed the head line changed from 'why are banks collapsing now?' to 'why are some banks struggling?'

    Surely even the BBC, with no need for clickbait headlines, can see that “Why are banks collapsing now?” is somewhat sub-optimal of a headline, for anyone not wishing to actively spark a run on banks?
    Have decided to reduce my mini corporate risk of a bank collapse by paying a chunk of the cash in the bank to myself as a dividend :)
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,462

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Welcome back BTW.

    I absolutely agree with you about Starmer. The utter joy of todays politics is that the impossible is possible. After the 2019 General Election we were all clear that the Tories would win the election after that, and could cite all kinds of precedents to prove it.

    And yet here we are. Name me another political leader who has so utterly and comprehensively transformed their party's position in such a short space of time? Sure, he has had boosts from events - the Boris comedy, the Truss lunacy etc. But to benefit from the misfortune of others you have to be in the right position and configured for that boost at the time the misfortune happens.

    I'm not voting Labour because what's the point up here. But they will win the next election even if we assume a shallowing of the lead. And that was *impossible* from a position of Christmas 2019.
    I think Starmer has benefitted from a not insignificant amount of luck. But then a lot of successful politicians do.

    What I will say in his favour is he has demonstrated, particularly in the last 12 months or so, a knack for spotting where he needs to position himself to get the greatest benefit. And has been able to do so with minimal carping from the left of the party. That he has been able to do so demonstrates a certain level of competence.

    He has however yet to be tested in the spotlight of a GE campaign and that will be the significant challenge. He is going to get everything thrown at him and the Tories will really test him on some of what they will perceive to be his weaker points. If he is being smart he will be coming up with positioning and lines to give him resilience against those attacks - there is already some evidence he is trying to do so with the immigration debate.
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,601
    The previous 6 polls all had fieldwork conducted in part (or in one case in whole) on the day of the Budget.

    Today's People Polling was conducted 2 days after Budget day, a reasonable interval to allow the full horrors to unravel once the smoke and mirrors had cleared.

    I am generally sceptical of People Polling's results, given that they are one of the new kids on the block and have been posting figures at the top end of Labour leads. But regardless of house effects, the polling trend deserves attention. A 6% increase in the Labour lead in the first genuine post Budget poll might be a straw in the wind after a few polls in which the Labour lead had been eroded slightly.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll just out shows the Greens on 13% and Labour on 45%, Cons on 20% and Reform on 6% .

    That’s a horror show for the Tories given their combined share of their voter pool is a paltry 26% .

    It is People Polling, when Gold Standard Survation and Opinium have the Conservatives on 32% or close to 30% respectively you can ignore this latest Godwin poll as an outlier. Especially as it has the Greens on 13%. PP has no history of election polling before unlike Survation and Opinium
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    MaxPB said:

    Instagram is the classic example, users are monetised at about $40 per year, it's free to use so they've got hundreds of millions of customers. Ask those same hundreds of millions to pay $5 per month to use it in return for full data privacy and they'd lose all of their customers.

    As a user, Instagram is the only platform where I've felt I've got value from targeted advertising without it being an annoyance.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    As a user, Instagram is the only platform where I've felt I've got value from targeted advertising without it being an annoyance.

    Instagram is totally f*ked now.

    An endless stream of content I don't want, on a website that doesn't even scroll properly anymore.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2023
    Paging Leon....

    GPTs are GPTs: An Early Look at the Labor Market Impact Potential of Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.10130

    Cliffsnotes - loads of people in cushy white collar jobs are going to experience what all the blue collar workers in the later part of the 20th Century. If your job is lots of paper pushing, searching Stack Overflow to copy and paste code and generally not being particular innovative, GPT will be replacing a big chunk (if not all) of your job.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    That lot does not make him incompetent.
    Quite. Not trustworthy - the lies trip off the tongue - but highly and ruthlessly competent.
    Yes he's Labour's heir to Boris.

    He'll say anything and do anything to further his own career, and its working for now just as it did for Boris.
    BEEP BEEP BEEP ...

    Ah good the False Equivalence monitor is still working. Thought it might need new batteries.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304

    Paging Leon....

    GPTs are GPTs: An Early Look at the Labor Market Impact Potential of Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.10130

    Cliffsnotes - loads of people in cushy white collar jobs are going to experience what all the blue collar workers in the later part of the 20th Century. If your job is lots of paper pushing, searching Stack Overflow to copy and paste code and generally not being particular innovative, GPT will be replacing a big chunk (if not all) of your job.

    Bit behind the curve - the conversation has now moved on to whether these models are, in fact, broken backed and largely useless.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Welcome back BTW.

    I absolutely agree with you about Starmer. The utter joy of todays politics is that the impossible is possible. After the 2019 General Election we were all clear that the Tories would win the election after that, and could cite all kinds of precedents to prove it.

    And yet here we are. Name me another political leader who has so utterly and comprehensively transformed their party's position in such a short space of time? Sure, he has had boosts from events - the Boris comedy, the Truss lunacy etc. But to benefit from the misfortune of others you have to be in the right position and configured for that boost at the time the misfortune happens.

    I'm not voting Labour because what's the point up here. But they will win the next election even if we assume a shallowing of the lead. And that was *impossible* from a position of Christmas 2019.
    Why is there no point voting Labour in Scotland iyo?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    edited March 2023
    Fishing said:

    That polling is unbelievable.

    Who the hell thinks Starmer is competent or trustworthy?

    He has just ditched all the policies he said he'd follow to get elected leader. He said that Corbyn was his best mate when he needed his support, then banned him from standing as a Labour candidate. Etc etc.

    Oh yes, and he's a lawyer.

    People are just so sick of the Tories they aren't really paying attention to what the alternative is actually saying/doing.

    They will probably notice more and more as we get closer to the election and Labour/Starmer gets more scrutiny but basically we're at an "anyone but Con" period now. The Liz/Kwasi debacle was the final straw.

    The warning signs are there for what a Stamer government will actually be like though... Labour will be plumbing the depths of unpopularity within 18 months of taking office IMO.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Horse_B said:

    Keir Starmer is clearly competent.

    He came in when Labour was 26 points behind, riddled with anti-Semitism and divided.

    In the space of three years, he has overturned that lead and converted it into a 20 point lead of his own, resolved the anti-Semitism problem (source: BoD, EHRC), kicked Corbyn out of the party and taken the lead on the economy, something Labour has not held since the early 2000s.

    I genuinely think he is the most able political operator Labour has had since Blair. Of course that isn't a high bar but bearing in mind his next immediate competition called Maxine Peak "an absolute diamond" when she wrote an anti-Semitic article and said JC - a two-time loser - was a "ten out of ten", I think we can rest easy that for once the Labour Party made a very sensible decision in choosing Sir Keir.

    Welcome back BTW.

    I absolutely agree with you about Starmer. The utter joy of todays politics is that the impossible is possible. After the 2019 General Election we were all clear that the Tories would win the election after that, and could cite all kinds of precedents to prove it.

    And yet here we are. Name me another political leader who has so utterly and comprehensively transformed their party's position in such a short space of time? Sure, he has had boosts from events - the Boris comedy, the Truss lunacy etc. But to benefit from the misfortune of others you have to be in the right position and configured for that boost at the time the misfortune happens.

    I'm not voting Labour because what's the point up here. But they will win the next election even if we assume a shallowing of the lead. And that was *impossible* from a position of Christmas 2019.
    Why is there no point voting Labour in Scotland iyo?
    In Scotland? Yes. In Banff and Buchan? No.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2023

    Paging Leon....

    GPTs are GPTs: An Early Look at the Labor Market Impact Potential of Large Language Models
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.10130

    Cliffsnotes - loads of people in cushy white collar jobs are going to experience what all the blue collar workers in the later part of the 20th Century. If your job is lots of paper pushing, searching Stack Overflow to copy and paste code and generally not being particular innovative, GPT will be replacing a big chunk (if not all) of your job.

    Bit behind the curve - the conversation has now moved on to whether these models are, in fact, broken backed and largely useless.
    I was of course posting to Leon, who loves nothing more than a bit of hyperbole.

    Having used GPT3.5 and GPT4 for a while now in my day to day workflow, its makes coding way more efficient. I would say that if your job is copy / pasting lots of boilerplate code, I would be quite worried. Its the equivalent of metal bashing prior to CNC / robots. You will still need some people, but you need far fewer. What these models don't do is really understand anything they are actually doing, so innovative / understanding is where you want to be.

    In terms of relying on them for accurate information, it isn't hard to witness them hallucinate total bollocks.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,675
    Curious......

    Chinese President Xi Jinping is welcomed by…. the Deputy Prime Minister Chernyshenko. He is the minister for tourism, sport, culture and communication.

    The deputy? The tourist minister? Ok..

    Putin didn’t want to be in a predetermined place outside.


    https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1637770986920574978?s=20
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,601
    nico679 said:

    An extraordinary poll just out shows the Greens on 13% and Labour on 45%, Cons on 20% and Reform on 6% .

    That’s a horror show for the Tories given their combined share of their voter pool is a paltry 26% .

    There is clearly a bad smell in that People Power poll regarding the ridiculous 13% Greens figure. As they only give percentages and not raw figures in the same detail as say R&W, it's not possible to delve too deeply.

    But what does stand out are these figures:

    Voting, All cases (extract)
    LDs 7%
    Green 8%
    Would not say/Don't vote/Don't know 26% (combined)

    Voting, Only cases selecting a party
    LDs 8%
    Green 13%

    Why has the Green figure jumped up so much when the DKs etc have been excluded, when the LD figure has not? Even assuming results at the very extreme of rounding isn't really enough to explain it.

    And the adjustments within the sub breaks are even more extreme eg.
    All cases 18-24, Greens 20%
    All cases 18-24, Would not say/Don't vote/Don't know 22% (combined)
    Only cases selecting a party 18-24, Greens 35%









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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
This discussion has been closed.