Interesting that the UK's formal accession to the CPTPP looks set to be announced in the next few weeks. So much for the theory that Rishi is backsliding on Brexit somehow. As @Casino_Royale and I have been saying, the WF closes the door on the single market and customs union version of Brexit, pushing ahead with the CPTPP shows that we're not going to be in either of those any time soon.
Closing the book on NI also closes the book on Brexit. It is, IMO, now complete and from this point the relationship with the EU will be defined by the TCA and changes to it to ease trade but there is no longer that hope in the EU that they can crowbar the UK into the single market or dynamic alignment using NI.
Once we join the CPTPP I think within 5 years the nature of the who we do business with will just change and UK PLC will have to adapt to compete with imports from significantly more dynamic and better invested Asian companies than what they're used to. I'm very interested to see which companies are able to compete and which just wither and die because they failed to invest over the last 10 years and instead paid huge dividends to shareholders and bonuses to executives.
You're forgetting something... Keir Starmer is probably going to be PM in less than two years.
But the whole first term is going to be pledged not to change anything wrt Brexit and by 2029 the economy is going to look very different than it does now, our balance of imports and exports will be much less dominated by the EU.
And then what? Think about the politics for a second.
A large chunk of the Brexit vote was from workers unhappy about being undercut by workers in Eastern Europe. You seem to be proposing that they will be undercut by workers in East Asia.
Shock therapy is one thing, but do you really think any politician of any party would dare let that happen on their watch?
I think we also need to bear in mind that a lot of hardcore remainers/rejoiners who are remaining quiet at the moment will be less so when we are mid-term through a Labour government. They'll be wanting some red meat for backing Labour.
Or indeed any Lib Dems, Greens, Plaids or Scot Nats needed to get Labour over the line in a hung parliament.
Conservatives fearful of a radical government might be better off with a solid Labour majority.
There are rumours that the Russians are sending ten T-14 Armatas (their latest tank) to the front. At least, there is video of what is allegedly them on a train somewhere, going somewhere else.
So we might see modern Russian tanks against relatively modern western ones.
They have been saying that for a while. Including videos claiming to be a T14 in action. Very static. Which turned out not to be in Ukraine - hacked out from promo videos.
Is recycling bullshit environmentally friendly?
I presume the uptick in T14 rumours relates to the rumours of the imminent arrival of western tanks.
Given all the rumours that have turned out to be bullshit about this tank, I’d say we still have no data.
Well, I've seen some people claim that Russia only has four or so T-14s. So we know there's probably more than that. And they have enough to afford to put them on a train.
Also note that Russia wants sales, desperately. Their current range of tanks - even the T-90Ms - have suffered embarrassing losses. *If* the T-14 performs well - at least better than their current tanks - then it'll be good for sales.
But I don't hold out much hope for that.
A number of hulls and turrets were produced. How many were made into running tanks is a questions. How many remained running is another. How many were completed to an operational standard is yet another.
All that video tells us is that a number of T14 shaped tanks were on a train.
Interesting that the UK's formal accession to the CPTPP looks set to be announced in the next few weeks. So much for the theory that Rishi is backsliding on Brexit somehow. As @Casino_Royale and I have been saying, the WF closes the door on the single market and customs union version of Brexit, pushing ahead with the CPTPP shows that we're not going to be in either of those any time soon.
Closing the book on NI also closes the book on Brexit. It is, IMO, now complete and from this point the relationship with the EU will be defined by the TCA and changes to it to ease trade but there is no longer that hope in the EU that they can crowbar the UK into the single market or dynamic alignment using NI.
Once we join the CPTPP I think within 5 years the nature of the who we do business with will just change and UK PLC will have to adapt to compete with imports from significantly more dynamic and better invested Asian companies than what they're used to. I'm very interested to see which companies are able to compete and which just wither and die because they failed to invest over the last 10 years and instead paid huge dividends to shareholders and bonuses to executives.
You're forgetting something... Keir Starmer is probably going to be PM in less than two years.
But the whole first term is going to be pledged not to change anything wrt Brexit and by 2029 the economy is going to look very different than it does now, our balance of imports and exports will be much less dominated by the EU.
And then what? Think about the politics for a second.
A large chunk of the Brexit vote was from workers unhappy about being undercut by workers in Eastern Europe. You seem to be proposing that they will be undercut by workers in East Asia.
Shock therapy is one thing, but do you really think any politician of any party would dare let that happen on their watch?
I think we also need to bear in mind that a lot of hardcore remainers/rejoiners who are remaining quiet at the moment will be less so when we are mid-term through a Labour government. They'll be wanting some red meat for backing Labour.
Or indeed any Lib Dems, Greens, Plaids or Scot Nats needed to get Labour over the line in a hung parliament.
Conservatives fearful of a radical government might be better off with a solid Labour majority.
On which ... the SNP leaders' hustings just this minute, fxrom the National.
8:49pm The last question of the night: will Scotland ask for a similar arrangement that Northern Ireland has been granted with regards to membership of the EU single-market? #
Kate Forbes says "if Northern Ireland can do it, why can't Scotland?" [...]
Ash Regan says that while she would ask the UK Government for a similar arrangement she doesn't think it would be forthcoming.
She says that she thinks that the European Free Trade Association could be a good option for Scotland in the short-term because rejoining the EU may take "up to ten years"
Humza Yousaf says that the party should make sure the clip of Rishi Sunak preaching about the benefits of the EU single-market for Northern Ireland should "be in every living room"
"How dare they stop us from having what Northern Ireland has"
That corresponds with my surveyor friend who says his workload went from brisk to tumbleweed overnight following the Truss reign/interest rate rise.
Hopefully a long-overdue price correction is coming.
As someone who bought his home in December, I couldn't give less of a shit if I end up in negative equity and bought at the top of the market. I have a home, that's more than many other people, and if I was renting it'd be dead money anyway so who cares if a theoretical number goes negative.
If people who "invested" in property portfolios end up in negative equity on the other hand, then caveat emptor applies. If they lose everything, they deserve no more sympathy than those who invested in Woolworths or any other failed investment.
The correction in house prices since 2007 has come in fits and starts, but it's certainly there. Wages have risen faster than house prices over the past 15 years.
Do you mind me asking where you're getting your data from please? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't match with the data I've seen.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
Interesting that the UK's formal accession to the CPTPP looks set to be announced in the next few weeks. So much for the theory that Rishi is backsliding on Brexit somehow. As @Casino_Royale and I have been saying, the WF closes the door on the single market and customs union version of Brexit, pushing ahead with the CPTPP shows that we're not going to be in either of those any time soon.
Closing the book on NI also closes the book on Brexit. It is, IMO, now complete and from this point the relationship with the EU will be defined by the TCA and changes to it to ease trade but there is no longer that hope in the EU that they can crowbar the UK into the single market or dynamic alignment using NI.
Once we join the CPTPP I think within 5 years the nature of the who we do business with will just change and UK PLC will have to adapt to compete with imports from significantly more dynamic and better invested Asian companies than what they're used to. I'm very interested to see which companies are able to compete and which just wither and die because they failed to invest over the last 10 years and instead paid huge dividends to shareholders and bonuses to executives.
You're forgetting something... Keir Starmer is probably going to be PM in less than two years.
But the whole first term is going to be pledged not to change anything wrt Brexit and by 2029 the economy is going to look very different than it does now, our balance of imports and exports will be much less dominated by the EU.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Interesting that the UK's formal accession to the CPTPP looks set to be announced in the next few weeks. So much for the theory that Rishi is backsliding on Brexit somehow. As @Casino_Royale and I have been saying, the WF closes the door on the single market and customs union version of Brexit, pushing ahead with the CPTPP shows that we're not going to be in either of those any time soon.
Closing the book on NI also closes the book on Brexit. It is, IMO, now complete and from this point the relationship with the EU will be defined by the TCA and changes to it to ease trade but there is no longer that hope in the EU that they can crowbar the UK into the single market or dynamic alignment using NI.
Once we join the CPTPP I think within 5 years the nature of the who we do business with will just change and UK PLC will have to adapt to compete with imports from significantly more dynamic and better invested Asian companies than what they're used to. I'm very interested to see which companies are able to compete and which just wither and die because they failed to invest over the last 10 years and instead paid huge dividends to shareholders and bonuses to executives.
You're forgetting something... Keir Starmer is probably going to be PM in less than two years.
But the whole first term is going to be pledged not to change anything wrt Brexit and by 2029 the economy is going to look very different than it does now, our balance of imports and exports will be much less dominated by the EU.
I neither believe nor trust Starmer.
So you have something in common with @bigjohnowls ?
Interesting that the UK's formal accession to the CPTPP looks set to be announced in the next few weeks. So much for the theory that Rishi is backsliding on Brexit somehow. As @Casino_Royale and I have been saying, the WF closes the door on the single market and customs union version of Brexit, pushing ahead with the CPTPP shows that we're not going to be in either of those any time soon.
Closing the book on NI also closes the book on Brexit. It is, IMO, now complete and from this point the relationship with the EU will be defined by the TCA and changes to it to ease trade but there is no longer that hope in the EU that they can crowbar the UK into the single market or dynamic alignment using NI.
Once we join the CPTPP I think within 5 years the nature of the who we do business with will just change and UK PLC will have to adapt to compete with imports from significantly more dynamic and better invested Asian companies than what they're used to. I'm very interested to see which companies are able to compete and which just wither and die because they failed to invest over the last 10 years and instead paid huge dividends to shareholders and bonuses to executives.
Very well said.
What is symbolically interesting too is that from the moment we accede to the CPTPP, the CPTPP will be a larger trade zone economically than the European Union itself. Not really important, but its interesting because many people like to say still that the EU is the world's largest trade zone when it isn't, its only the third-largest already but when we join the CPTPP it won't even be in a podium position anymore.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
"unicorn-promising bullshit".
Like the "unicorn" of getting a trade agreement with the EU which means no dynamic alignment on rules, no hard border in Ireland, and no hard border in the Irish Sea? I remember for years demanding that particular "unicorn" and being ridiculed for seeking a unicorn as "obviously" there had to either be alignment or a hard border somewhere.
Yet we have the unicorn now. Turns out, the unicorns were the solution all along. Compromise is possible, and unicorns are real.
So be a bit less bitter and see what other unicorns we can find are real. Its a joyous thing, so turn that frown upside down.
“What has become clear over the past couple of days is that Sunak appears to be doing very well – certainly much better than he was”
🤣
Correct me where wrong - because I’m so gobsmacked why he’s not rowing back on this - Sunak selling his Got Brexit Done deal as Northern Ireland being in the best place on Earth - in UK and EU single market - whilst denying that “best place on earth” to Scotland, England and Wales? Am I the only person who thinks that curious selling point stokes up a whole new kettle of desires, more than any settled?
He’s certainly done the SNP and Scottish Independence homework for them, by defining what happens to their UK border once they are independent. Not only that but by telling separatists this will be the best place on earth, quite an advantage over England to be there, he’s giving them a huge incentive to go there has he not?
Sunak’s deal will not end EU law in Northern Ireland, nor ultimate oversight of EU judges in some circumstances, so Northern Island is still on a different course from mainland UK. This means the “green lane” removing Irish Sea border merely kicks that problem back to increased market surveillance North-South Ireland border, as EU and UK increasingly diverge - exactly where everyone but the DUP fear it being! So is that border problem really resolved, as some claim, or just MOVED to a more worrying place for it to be going forward?
The BRAKE? First, the threshold for the Stormont veto is high, 30 members across two parties just to trigger it. Secondly EU briefing paper on the Commission website says of the new veto: "This mechanism would be triggered under the most exceptional circumstances and as a matter of last resort", making clear there is no expectation it should be used regularly, such as veto every NEW EU LAW to be imposed on Northern Ireland. If anyone tries to use it like that, details set out in the actual text Sunak has agreed, gives EU the ability to take 'appropriate remedial measures' to protect their market. And that’s even after a UK government agrees with DUP and does not overrule them - why should DUP ever trust this UK government and EU favourable mechanism, or ever swallow the ludicrous spin this gives them their own veto? In fact, why should ANY Unionist or Brexiteer swallow this wherever they are, whatever party they are in?
By denying Northern Ireland full UK sovereignty, and no veto over more new EU law being imposed upon Northern Ireland despite DUP rejection of it, Sunak has a zero chance of getting the DUP to sign up to this, hence Stormont remains closed, with this opportunity to open it actually missed. If this doesn’t open it what ever will?
Are we sure Rishi is really handling this as well as all that this week?
PS I’m only reposting my first take from Monday evening, that some of you said was wrong. I’ll accept your apologies because everything in this post now proven 100% correct. 😌
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
Of course, not going to happen.
No, make it two pence.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
Of course, not going to happen.
No, make it two pence.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
Sadly common sense is anything but common and the GFA goes against your common sense.
In an ideal world I'm a big fan of FPTP and having a strong majority government, but the GFA disagrees with that for fairly obvious reasons so we are where we are.
A few years ago the entire country of Belgium went two years without any government.
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
Of course, not going to happen.
No, make it two pence.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
Of course, not going to happen.
No, make it two pence.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
But that the percentages varied widely from time to time, and place to place. There is reason to believe, for example, that the percentage is higher for psychology research papers, than for physics research papers.
(What is the percentage now for science fiction? I have not read enough of the recent stuff to say with any certainty, but would note that Sturgeon said that during science fiction's "Golden Age", so I suspect that he would think it now higher than 90 percent.)
I’ve published over 50 research papers and have confidence in that work. Recent moves in my field(s) have been around better access to data that supports publication (I.e. we make it available to anyone who wants to see it). This is something that has been an issue in the past, as without looking at raw data you cannot always detect fraud.
One of my issues with some climate science has been a reluctance to publish raw data, albeit under intolerable pressure from those who want to find issues in it. But you should always open your data to scrutiny, unless you want people to assume there is something to hide.
There's an issue in epidemiology/medical research in that we usually cna't share the data. Innovations like openSAFELY, where it's feasible to run modified analyses on the same data without seeing the data are one way around this.
It's becoming an issue in social sciences, where the best data come from either government databases or big tech firms, and only select researchers get access.
If people were to get serious about getting Stormont up and running again, I'd like to see them just cut the MLA salary to zero pounds and zero pence for all MLAs belonging to a party that is refusing to take part. Or such-like. They might be able to continue to subvert the democratic process, but at least you're not paying them to do so.
Of course, not going to happen.
No, make it two pence.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
Sadly common sense is anything but common and the GFA goes against your common sense.
In an ideal world I'm a big fan of FPTP and having a strong majority government, but the GFA disagrees with that for fairly obvious reasons so we are where we are.
A few years ago the entire country of Belgium went two years without any government.
Or the GFA could be amended to allow the UUP as second largest Unionist party and the Alliance to join SF in forming the Stormont Executive. Combined they have a majority of Stormont seats
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
Excellent post!
Not sure I agree entirely, though - The 2000’s-2016 major surge in immigration simply did not have popular consent. The backlash was ugly, but in hindsight, seems almost inevitable.
The liberal establishment had contracted American dreams;
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
Ancient history never was my strong point, but didn't DUP campaign AGAINST the GFA in 1998?
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
Ancient history never was my strong point, but didn't DUP campaign AGAINST the GFA in 1998?
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
Ancient history never was my strong point, but didn't DUP campaign AGAINST the GFA in 1998?
Yes they did, but it got ratified despite their disapproval and they since embraced it with the seemingly forgotten now St Andrews Agreement in 2006.
So again, we are where we are. If you wish to turn the clock back to repeal the GFA then we can talk about that, but if not then it needs to be accepted warts and all.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
Ancient history never was my strong point, but didn't DUP campaign AGAINST the GFA in 1998?
Yes they did, but it got ratified despite their disapproval and they since embraced it with the seemingly forgotten now St Andrews Agreement in 2006.
So again, we are where we are. If you wish to turn the clock back to repeal the GFA then we can talk about that, but if not then it needs to be accepted warts and all.
And SF had to be dragged into the agreement by considerable pressure and took many years to accept things such as Northern Ireland having a police force.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
Which is all in the GFA. Cherry picking isn't an option.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
Which is all in the GFA. Cherry picking isn't an option.
Noit saying it is. Quite the opposite. But if the DUP wish to do any governing they have to get on with it, or have it done for them. Vis: abortion bill.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
I'm really tickled pink by northern_monkey using the phrase "unicorn-hunting bullshit" this week of all weeks when the "unicorn" is real. We've had the likes of @Scott_xP posting stupid meme after stupid meme for years about how Brexiteers like myself preferred solution for NI is a unicorn and yet the unicorn is real and has happened.
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating @DaveKeating 19 Oct 2018 So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video] In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
Word is that Iran could be within a fortnight of having enough enriched uranium for its first nuclear bomb.
Probably one of the less dangerous ways this could play out is that Israel destroys Iran's enrichment facilities before they reach that point, and Iran blows up anything that tries to carry hydrocarbons through the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation. Would presumably make the cost of living crisis of the last year look like a time of milk and honey.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
What a sad twisted individual you are. I generally have sympathy for remain voters including those who want us to rejoin but I make the exception for infantile, self obsessed fuckwits like you.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
To some extent. I think HMG (in cahoots with the Irish Government) needs to let there be consequences from nothing happening in Stormont. Generate an incentive to actually want some governing.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Matt Hancock actually employed Isabel Oakshott to be his ghost writer and shared all his Whats App messages with her?
What a *&^%£*"%* idiot!
His due diligence on her views around things like lockdowns does seem to have been suboptimal.
Edit - I have to say, some of the quotes attributed to Boris made me think better of him. Which, given the amount of drivel I imagine he spouted on WhatsApp, tells you everything you need to know about the motives of the leakers.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
The logic makes sense. But the counter-position seems to be just "it's really easy to take the ball and go home when things don't go your way". You've got to have some sort of counter-measure against that, else the whole thing will just always fold at the first sight of conflict.
In this situation there doesn't appear to be a compromise that the DUP will accept - basically they are taking the position of "we get whatever we want from HMG and if we don't then we take the ball home".
Matt Hancock actually employed Isabel Oakshott to be his ghost writer and shared all his Whats App messages with her?
What a *&^%£*"%* idiot!
His due diligence on her views around things like lockdowns does seem to have been suboptimal.
Edit - I have to say, some of the quotes attributed to Boris made me think better of him. Which, given the amount of drivel I imagine he spouted on WhatsApp, tells you everything you need to know about the motives of the leakers.
Very small and selected sample, published in the DT.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
To some extent. I think HMG (in cahoots with the Irish Government) needs to let there be consequences from nothing happening in Stormont. Generate an incentive to actually want some governing.
One consequence that might concentrate Unionist minds would be to involve the Irish government in direct rule arrangements, using the East-West bodies. Simply using the East-West forum to consult with the Irish government on measures that Westminster would take would be interesting.
At the moment having Stormont suspended, and replaced by direct rule from Westminster, is not equally uncomfortable for Unionists and Nationalists.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
I'm really tickled pink by northern_monkey using the phrase "unicorn-hunting bullshit" this week of all weeks when the "unicorn" is real. We've had the likes of @Scott_xP posting stupid meme after stupid meme for years about how Brexiteers like myself preferred solution for NI is a unicorn and yet the unicorn is real and has happened.
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating @DaveKeating 19 Oct 2018 So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video] In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
What solution do we have today to the Trilemma?
I think you're getting rather carried away. While Rishi's deal is to be welcomed, it's ultimately only fixing a problem that Brexit itself caused, and NI is no better off now than when we were in the EU (unless you go with Rishi's analysis that NI's being in the Single Market gives it a competitive edge over the other nations of the UK, which is hardly roll-out-the-barrel stuff for the rest of us). No, Brexit is still dreary and grey.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
I'm really tickled pink by northern_monkey using the phrase "unicorn-hunting bullshit" this week of all weeks when the "unicorn" is real. We've had the likes of @Scott_xP posting stupid meme after stupid meme for years about how Brexiteers like myself preferred solution for NI is a unicorn and yet the unicorn is real and has happened.
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating @DaveKeating 19 Oct 2018 So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video] In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
What solution do we have today to the Trilemma?
Not quite.
“When goods move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, they will now move without customs bureaucracy, they will move without routine customs checks,” he told Radio 4.
But that’s not quite what the Windsor Framework says. The 26-page agreement contains provisions for bureaucracy that would not apply to goods moving between, say, England and Wales.
For example, the Framework says businesses will have to provide “commercial data” to an official body to move goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.
Later, the Framework says that a lorry entering Northern Ireland from England, Wales or Scotland would need a “document confirming that goods are staying in Northern Ireland and are moved in line with the terms of our internal market scheme”...
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Always had a soft spot for Sheffield United. Reason why lost in time. They've got the best club song, too. Good job I most likely have a convenient vacancy for a Premier League team to root for next season.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
That’s the problem.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
Excellent post!
Not sure I agree entirely, though - The 2000’s-2016 major surge in immigration simply did not have popular consent. The backlash was ugly, but in hindsight, seems almost inevitable.
The liberal establishment had contracted American dreams;
Yes. It is hopeless to overlook the failure of the majority of centrists to overlook consent over migration and to ignore issues of sovereignty. Compounded by the egregious and conspicuous avoidance of referendums, and then to cap it all, once it was obvious that there was a serious issue here for the UK the EU then fails to offer the UK anything in the way of derogations which would have killed Brexit stone dead.
At that point the political rather than trading nature of the enterprise, obvious to many for years, could not be concealed from anybody.
There are two separate questions: Did eurocratic politicised nonsense make Brexit very likely and could it have been avoided by a bit of common sense and democracy? Yes.
I'm really tickled pink by northern_monkey using the phrase "unicorn-hunting bullshit" this week of all weeks when the "unicorn" is real. We've had the likes of @Scott_xP posting stupid meme after stupid meme for years about how Brexiteers like myself preferred solution for NI is a unicorn and yet the unicorn is real and has happened.
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating @DaveKeating 19 Oct 2018 So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video] In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
What solution do we have today to the Trilemma?
I think you're getting rather carried away. While Rishi's deal is to be welcomed, it's ultimately only fixing a problem that Brexit itself caused, and NI is no better off now than when we were in the EU (unless you go with Rishi's analysis that NI's being in the Single Market gives it a competitive edge over the other nations of the UK, which is hardly roll-out-the-barrel stuff for the rest of us). No, Brexit is still dreary and grey.
NI is better off now than when we were in the EU, as are England and Wales too, because of all the benefits from Brexit.
Brexit was a vote that it was worth leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, because of all the benefits that taking back control would bring.
NI now is in the utterly remarkable position of having those benefits, without having to pay the price for those benefits. A true win/win and how can you possibly deny that its in a better position now?
Nowhere in the EU, nowhere else in the world, gets all the benefits of being out of the EU, while also getting the benefits of being in, simultaneously.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
That’s the problem.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Strange how any criticism of the DUP leads to assumptions that one is pro-SF, terrorists, etc.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
The logic makes sense. But the counter-position seems to be just "it's really easy to take the ball and go home when things don't go your way". You've got to have some sort of counter-measure against that, else the whole thing will just always fold at the first sight of conflict.
In this situation there doesn't appear to be a compromise that the DUP will accept - basically they are taking the position of "we get whatever we want from HMG and if we don't then we take the ball home".
The main point I would make is that this isn't all about the DUP. It's about the people in Northern Ireland who vote for them.
When Boris first dropped the DUP in it with his protocol deal I was very amused at how the DUP had been betrayed, and I felt they had deserved their comeuppance. They'd played for high stakes, and they'd lost. But I've come to realise that my delight at their discomfort was misplaced. Because it was ultimately Unionist voters in Northern Ireland who felt betrayed, and that outcome contradicts the basis of the GFA, which is about finding a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept.
So doing an end run around the DUP might be temporarily appealing, but it creates more trouble down the line as the lesson that Unionists would be entitled to take from it is that the GFA is a sham. Brexit has done damage to the Northern Ireland peace process by removing the border-smudging effect of UK and Irish membership of the EU. The DUP and Unionist voters need to be cajoled back into power-sharing, not coerced.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else does something you don't like does not make it ok for you to make utterly misleading comments about someone else. SKS doesn't have a record re Saville and you know it, so why say it?
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
That’s the problem.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
I don't. And it really isn't. Two obnoxious pig headed Parties putting their own shibboleths above the people of NI don't make a right
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
To some extent. I think HMG (in cahoots with the Irish Government) needs to let there be consequences from nothing happening in Stormont. Generate an incentive to actually want some governing.
One consequence that might concentrate Unionist minds would be to involve the Irish government in direct rule arrangements, using the East-West bodies. Simply using the East-West forum to consult with the Irish government on measures that Westminster would take would be interesting.
At the moment having Stormont suspended, and replaced by direct rule from Westminster, is not equally uncomfortable for Unionists and Nationalists.
Sounds like a good way to get the Loyalist paramilitaries all fired up.
"Hancock has reacted furiously to Oakeshott’s decision to provide the Telegraph with messages he originally gave her so she could ghostwrite his Pandemic Diaries memoir, and is said to be considering whether this breached a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) between the pair."
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else does something you don't like does not make it ok for you to make utterly misleading comments about someone else. SKS doesn't have a record re Saville and you know it, so why say it?
The original tweet against the King came from Labour for a Republic. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out, that's politics!!
That corresponds with my surveyor friend who says his workload went from brisk to tumbleweed overnight following the Truss reign/interest rate rise.
Hopefully a long-overdue price correction is coming.
As someone who bought his home in December, I couldn't give less of a shit if I end up in negative equity and bought at the top of the market. I have a home, that's more than many other people, and if I was renting it'd be dead money anyway so who cares if a theoretical number goes negative.
If people who "invested" in property portfolios end up in negative equity on the other hand, then caveat emptor applies. If they lose everything, they deserve no more sympathy than those who invested in Woolworths or any other failed investment.
The correction in house prices since 2007 has come in fits and starts, but it's certainly there. Wages have risen faster than house prices over the past 15 years.
Do you mind me asking where you're getting your data from please? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't match with the data I've seen.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
To some extent. I think HMG (in cahoots with the Irish Government) needs to let there be consequences from nothing happening in Stormont. Generate an incentive to actually want some governing.
One consequence that might concentrate Unionist minds would be to involve the Irish government in direct rule arrangements, using the East-West bodies. Simply using the East-West forum to consult with the Irish government on measures that Westminster would take would be interesting.
At the moment having Stormont suspended, and replaced by direct rule from Westminster, is not equally uncomfortable for Unionists and Nationalists.
That’s a very interesting thought. “Play ball or the Irish Gvt is involved and one day soon that might be the Shinners”.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record. He led the DPP from 2008 to 2013, Savile didn't die until 2011.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
"Hancock has reacted furiously to Oakeshott’s decision to provide the Telegraph with messages he originally gave her so she could ghostwrite his Pandemic Diaries memoir, and is said to be considering whether this breached a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) between the pair."
There was an NDA agreement? Wtf was it for if it couldn't stop Oakshott disclosing the WhatsApp messages?
We were discussing him earlier. Not least his apparent* multiple breach of GDPR, security and government regulations by leaking emails/etc to an outsider. Bit late to worry about a NDA with Ms Oakeshott.
*but perhaps he had permission from all the people in the 10e5 calls, and the Cabinet Office, to be fair.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else does something you don't like does not make it ok for you to make utterly misleading comments about someone else. SKS doesn't have a record re Saville and you know it, so why say it?
The original tweet against the King came from Labour for a Republic. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out, that's politics!!
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
To some extent. I think HMG (in cahoots with the Irish Government) needs to let there be consequences from nothing happening in Stormont. Generate an incentive to actually want some governing.
One consequence that might concentrate Unionist minds would be to involve the Irish government in direct rule arrangements, using the East-West bodies. Simply using the East-West forum to consult with the Irish government on measures that Westminster would take would be interesting.
At the moment having Stormont suspended, and replaced by direct rule from Westminster, is not equally uncomfortable for Unionists and Nationalists.
Sounds like a good way to get the Loyalist paramilitaries all fired up.
You don’t like the Peace Process, do you?
The East-West bodies are part of the GFA. A much neglected part of it. I favour much more effort being put into the East-West and North-South bodies. The peace process should be about more than Stormont.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
"unicorn-promising bullshit".
Like the "unicorn" of getting a trade agreement with the EU which means no dynamic alignment on rules, no hard border in Ireland, and no hard border in the Irish Sea? I remember for years demanding that particular "unicorn" and being ridiculed for seeking a unicorn as "obviously" there had to either be alignment or a hard border somewhere.
Yet we have the unicorn now. Turns out, the unicorns were the solution all along. Compromise is possible, and unicorns are real.
So be a bit less bitter and see what other unicorns we can find are real. Its a joyous thing, so turn that frown upside down.
I think there's going to be a few months of remainers having these kinds of rants as they realise they were completely taken in by the whole "no unicorns" stuff the EU was coming out with over the last five years. They all bought into the narrative that the UK wouldn't be able to get what it wanted and gleefully copy and posted blue tick wankers revelling in the EU's refusal to negotiate for the past four of five years. Now it's all come crashing down and the solution the EU has agreed to was one of those very same unicorn solutions that was proposed from the start, not what they wanted which was to push the whole UK into dynamic alignment to resolve the NI situation as a precursor to rejoining.
Rejoin has died with the WF, they are beginning to realise it and now the rants are starting. It won't be long until they attempt to nitpick the WF apart as not really what was asked for or that the EU didn't give up very much or that this deal is somehow going to lead to rejoining. You can see it here already but that will pass and all they'll be left with is the anger with no ability to move on.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
Not bitter.
More, drooling, raving lunatic, for whom feeding and dressing himself must be a constant struggle.
"Hancock has reacted furiously to Oakeshott’s decision to provide the Telegraph with messages he originally gave her so she could ghostwrite his Pandemic Diaries memoir, and is said to be considering whether this breached a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) between the pair."
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
That’s the problem.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Strange how any criticism of the DUP leads to assumptions that one is pro-SF, terrorists, etc.
Did I say that? No.
I’ve been horrified, personally, by quite how quickly we’ve allowed the DUP to be legitimised. I’m old enough to remember when me saying I held them in almost as much contempt as Sinn Fein/IRA, was not at all controversial.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
"They" being exactly who?
The police are the folk who detect and investigate crimes. Not the DPP.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
"Hancock has reacted furiously to Oakeshott’s decision to provide the Telegraph with messages he originally gave her so she could ghostwrite his Pandemic Diaries memoir, and is said to be considering whether this breached a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) between the pair."
There was an NDA agreement? Wtf was it for if it couldn't stop Oakshott disclosing the WhatsApp messages?
The story implies she published them in breach of the NDA. I mean a peace of paper can't stop anything if the other party is willing to accept the consequences of breaking it.
I'm really tickled pink by northern_monkey using the phrase "unicorn-hunting bullshit" this week of all weeks when the "unicorn" is real. We've had the likes of @Scott_xP posting stupid meme after stupid meme for years about how Brexiteers like myself preferred solution for NI is a unicorn and yet the unicorn is real and has happened.
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating @DaveKeating 19 Oct 2018 So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video] In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
What solution do we have today to the Trilemma?
I think you're getting rather carried away. While Rishi's deal is to be welcomed, it's ultimately only fixing a problem that Brexit itself caused, and NI is no better off now than when we were in the EU (unless you go with Rishi's analysis that NI's being in the Single Market gives it a competitive edge over the other nations of the UK, which is hardly roll-out-the-barrel stuff for the rest of us). No, Brexit is still dreary and grey.
The real cause is political. As a whole the UK majority wanted a deep trading arrangement and not a deep political union. We were not allowed, due to 30 years of UKs political folly, to have that. As long as this, rational, UK choice of ordinary voters can't be met we will have a problem. As we would discover if or when we rejoin. Brexit is a symptom not a cause.
For a parallel think how Canadians would feel about ever closer political union with the USA.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
The logic makes sense. But the counter-position seems to be just "it's really easy to take the ball and go home when things don't go your way". You've got to have some sort of counter-measure against that, else the whole thing will just always fold at the first sight of conflict.
In this situation there doesn't appear to be a compromise that the DUP will accept - basically they are taking the position of "we get whatever we want from HMG and if we don't then we take the ball home".
The main point I would make is that this isn't all about the DUP. It's about the people in Northern Ireland who vote for them.
When Boris first dropped the DUP in it with his protocol deal I was very amused at how the DUP had been betrayed, and I felt they had deserved their comeuppance. They'd played for high stakes, and they'd lost. But I've come to realise that my delight at their discomfort was misplaced. Because it was ultimately Unionist voters in Northern Ireland who felt betrayed, and that outcome contradicts the basis of the GFA, which is about finding a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept.
So doing an end run around the DUP might be temporarily appealing, but it creates more trouble down the line as the lesson that Unionists would be entitled to take from it is that the GFA is a sham. Brexit has done damage to the Northern Ireland peace process by removing the border-smudging effect of UK and Irish membership of the EU. The DUP and Unionist voters need to be cajoled back into power-sharing, not coerced.
If a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept exists, great. It seems in some instances there will always have to be an absolute somewhere that can't be sliced up in a way that achieves compromise.
To be honest in this case I'd have been happy with what had been talked about just before Christmas (I think it was) - re-running the election. If you do that, and you still have the same outcome, ok, fair enough. But those same people you mentioned seem to have at least the right to be asked again if they still want to stick with their same choices even if it means ultimate stalemate continues to be possible or likely.
PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...
"The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS
What a tosser
What would you have him say?
No brainer today
"Hancock killing Granny's".
It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.
Tosser with a capital T
I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.
So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.
That feels better.
SKS is BJ but worse
Equal in the liar Department
Equal in the only in it for himself department
Equal in the warmonger Department
Worse in the Democracy Department
Any evidence to back any of that up..
I really do wonder if @bigjohnowls is just enjoying rubbing up Labour supporters for the sake of it
He definitely does, but that doesn’t stop me worrying about him. There is an obsessive level of bitterness that’s not healthy.
To be fair you can see that in other posters including @Scott_xP who is embittered by Brexit
Embittered is precisely the right word. The past few years have left me with my mouth agog, watching my country inflict massive damage on itself, damage that will last years, decades.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
"unicorn-promising bullshit".
Like the "unicorn" of getting a trade agreement with the EU which means no dynamic alignment on rules, no hard border in Ireland, and no hard border in the Irish Sea? I remember for years demanding that particular "unicorn" and being ridiculed for seeking a unicorn as "obviously" there had to either be alignment or a hard border somewhere.
Yet we have the unicorn now. Turns out, the unicorns were the solution all along. Compromise is possible, and unicorns are real.
So be a bit less bitter and see what other unicorns we can find are real. Its a joyous thing, so turn that frown upside down.
I think there's going to be a few months of remainers having these kinds of rants as they realise they were completely taken in by the whole "no unicorns" stuff the EU was coming out with over the last five years. They all bought into the narrative that the UK wouldn't be able to get what it wanted and gleefully copy and posted blue tick wankers revelling in the EU's refusal to negotiate for the past four of five years. Now it's all come crashing down and the solution the EU has agreed to was one of those very same unicorn solutions that was proposed from the start, not what they wanted which was to push the whole UK into dynamic alignment to resolve the NI situation as a precursor to rejoining.
Rejoin has died with the WF, they are beginning to realise it and now the rants are starting. It won't be long until they attempt to nitpick the WF apart as not really what was asked for or that the EU didn't give up very much or that this deal is somehow going to lead to rejoining. You can see it here already but that will pass and all they'll be left with is the anger with no ability to move on.
Trying to Rejoin via coercion was never going to be a successful strategy. If it has died with this deal then the pro-EU side can finally move on and start making a case for EU membership that has a chance of changing minds and convincing people.
It won't be easy, and it won't be quick, but it's the only way that has a chance of ending up with a Britain that is comfortable as an EU member.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record. He led the DPP from 2008 to 2013, Savile didn't die until 2011.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
Of course the CPS collate evidence. Otherwise how on earth is any criminal case ever prosecuted in England and Wales? We also know the police interviewed Savile several times
That corresponds with my surveyor friend who says his workload went from brisk to tumbleweed overnight following the Truss reign/interest rate rise.
Hopefully a long-overdue price correction is coming.
As someone who bought his home in December, I couldn't give less of a shit if I end up in negative equity and bought at the top of the market. I have a home, that's more than many other people, and if I was renting it'd be dead money anyway so who cares if a theoretical number goes negative.
If people who "invested" in property portfolios end up in negative equity on the other hand, then caveat emptor applies. If they lose everything, they deserve no more sympathy than those who invested in Woolworths or any other failed investment.
The correction in house prices since 2007 has come in fits and starts, but it's certainly there. Wages have risen faster than house prices over the past 15 years.
Do you mind me asking where you're getting your data from please? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't match with the data I've seen.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
That’s the problem.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Strange how any criticism of the DUP leads to assumptions that one is pro-SF, terrorists, etc.
Did I say that? No.
I’ve been horrified, personally, by quite how quickly we’ve allowed the DUP to be legitimised. I’m old enough to remember when me saying I held them in almost as much contempt as Sinn Fein/IRA, was not at all controversial.
Lots of us who wish NI well agree. Once they decided that SF and DUP would be the ones who get the votes and not SDLP and UUP then the message is, sadly clear.
I'm not wholly convinced this week's events will help the Prime Minister that much. John Major, among others, did marvellous work in Northern Ireland but gained little from it electorally in the rest of the UK. The truth is, however much it's boosted by Conservative supporters and pro-Conservative media, most people don't care that much about Northern Ireland.
I don't imagine in 2016 many contemplating a LEAVE vote considered the impact of such a vote on Northern Ireland and its politics - I could be wrong.
Sunak, to his credit, has delivered a deal and perhaps it's a sign unlike on here the emotions of the past seven years are being replaced by a pragmatic reality. It takes two to tango - arguably both the UK and the EU have "won" simply by removing the issue from the board. Naturally, some on here emphasise the positives for Britain but let's not forget it's probably a good deal for the EU inasmuch as it provides a sound economic and political relationship with the UK going forward.
Nobody will be talking about re-joining but the adversarial nature of the post-2016 relationship on both sides is finally being replaced by the necessity to make this work. Those who still want the fight will deny the deal but the truth is more now want to move on and in that regard Sunak was pushing at a door far more easy to open than was the case a few years go.
The Tories have infamously been pandering to the DUP for many years now -and allowing them to wreck Stormont's business as the NI parliament while keeping most of their salaries. So knowing a bit about NI isn't going to cause most folk to feel more positive. Mr Sunak is still very much in clearing up his lot's mess mode, I think.
There’s not much that can be done if either side wants to suspend Stormont.
When SF shut it down, were you upset?
When 70 odd party members of SF in good standing were all in the same 6 foot square toilet, when a man was slowly beaten to death in the bar… were you worried? When SF threatened to suspend the assembly, again, if the police enquiry wasn’t handled more “sensitively”…
Well, it turns out that people listened. And learned.
That’s the Peace Process.
Unless you are anti-agreement Man Of Violence?
Not impressed to see Stormont shut down full stop.
Them’s the rules.
Too late to say “This Peace Process isn’t the one I wanted, do you have one like it but in lilac?”
Given that the torturers and murderers are in politics, rather than in jail, I can’t get worked up about some people not turning up for their day jobs.
Nevertheless, the day job does need to be done.
According to the Good Friday Agreement actually no it does not.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
The GFA may not say that. But common sense says that. For instance, the budget needs ot be passed and the business of administration done. In recent years the UKG has had to do that or leave it to the NICS.
But the point of power-sharing is that it is up to the voters in both communities - one can't override the wishes of the other. So if Unionist voters are sufficiently pissed off about something that they'd rather vote for the DUP to suspend Stormont then that's what they will get. You either need to persuade those voters to vote for the UUP to participate in Stormont, or find a compromise that will convince those voters to tell their DUP representatives that now is the time to return to power-sharing.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
The logic makes sense. But the counter-position seems to be just "it's really easy to take the ball and go home when things don't go your way". You've got to have some sort of counter-measure against that, else the whole thing will just always fold at the first sight of conflict.
In this situation there doesn't appear to be a compromise that the DUP will accept - basically they are taking the position of "we get whatever we want from HMG and if we don't then we take the ball home".
The main point I would make is that this isn't all about the DUP. It's about the people in Northern Ireland who vote for them.
When Boris first dropped the DUP in it with his protocol deal I was very amused at how the DUP had been betrayed, and I felt they had deserved their comeuppance. They'd played for high stakes, and they'd lost. But I've come to realise that my delight at their discomfort was misplaced. Because it was ultimately Unionist voters in Northern Ireland who felt betrayed, and that outcome contradicts the basis of the GFA, which is about finding a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept.
So doing an end run around the DUP might be temporarily appealing, but it creates more trouble down the line as the lesson that Unionists would be entitled to take from it is that the GFA is a sham. Brexit has done damage to the Northern Ireland peace process by removing the border-smudging effect of UK and Irish membership of the EU. The DUP and Unionist voters need to be cajoled back into power-sharing, not coerced.
If a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept exists, great. It seems in some instances there will always have to be an absolute somewhere that can't be sliced up in a way that achieves compromise.
To be honest in this case I'd have been happy with what had been talked about just before Christmas (I think it was) - re-running the election. If you do that, and you still have the same outcome, ok, fair enough. But those same people you mentioned seem to have at least the right to be asked again if they still want to stick with their same choices even if it means ultimate stalemate continues to be possible or likely.
Yes. I too would have preferred the election to be repeated.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
Of course the DPP collate evidence. Otherwise how on earth is any criminal case ever prosecuted in England and Wales?
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
It might be American but try watching an episode of Law & Order.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
Of course the CPS collate evidence. Otherwise how on earth is any criminal case ever prosecuted in England and Wales?
Collate and collect are actually different words, mind.
Edit: Not sure they "collate" either? Isn't "a file has been sent to the DPP" the standard phrase? Far more experts than me on that on here.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else does something you don't like does not make it ok for you to make utterly misleading comments about someone else. SKS doesn't have a record re Saville and you know it, so why say it?
The original tweet against the King came from Labour for a Republic. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out, that's politics!!
What? Your not attacking them though are you? You are libeling Starmer instead. So it has nothing to do with dishing it out and not taking it has it? How would you like it if someone unjustifiably accused you of negligence which resulted in you protecting a sex offender?
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
Of course the DPP collate evidence. Otherwise how on earth is any criminal case ever prosecuted in England and Wales?
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
It might be American but try watching an episode of Law & Order.
I see HYUFD has been sneakily trying to distort the meaning. He has changed 'collect' to 'collate' and in a post or two it will be 'assess' and he'll be crowing it's all about Mr Starmer (as was then) after all.
Reportedly the king wants to move his brother Andrew into Frogmore, which he is kicking Harry and family out of, but Andrew wants to stay put in the Windsor Royal Lodge. This begs the question of who, if anybody, the king is planning to insert into the WRL. If I had to guess, I would guess somebody who is not a member of the royal family.
If I were the King I would move the Prince and Princess of Wales into WRL once Andrew is evicted and the Wessexes into Adelaide Cottage as their Windsor base
Bagshot Park is pretty much on the Windsor estate anyway so the Wessexes are already fine. I expect that the Crown could be looking to let the Royal Lodge for revenue. The King is said not to like Windsor so much, so possibly the Prince of Wales may be based more in the Castle.
If the king were to do it how HYUFD would do it, there would then be a question of who to move in to Bagshot Park. As well as the question of whether shuffling so many members of his family between residences as if they were Playmobil figures just because he's had a falling out with his second son might not be storing up trouble for the future.
If he were to let the WRL, how would the rent be set? Cheap to a friend wouldn't look good. Market rate to whichever Gulf oil sheikh slaps enough money on the table (money that's doubtless as clean as a whistle) and who perhaps keeps a fleet of gold-plated Rollers? Is that really the look the king wants? How much tax would he pay on the rental income? It would be far better not to change so much so fast. Win some respect, y'know? The monarchy's position is more precarious than he seems to think.
Similarly with telling the BBC to delay the Jimmy Savile documentary - if he did, and it sounds as though he did. Just accept that during his life this 74 year old has known a wrongun or two and nobody expects a man who was almost a lifelong Prince of Wales to have shown 100% good judgement across all those decades. Play it a bit Scandinavian. Abolish curtseying and making men wearing Nureyev-style tights grovel out of audience rooms backwards looking like actors playing Richard III. Scale the coronation down. Methinks his comms won't be run like that, though. He's a disaster waiting to happen.
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
The DPP don't collect evidence. They aren't capable of, and shouldn't be doing any such thing.
Of course the DPP collate evidence. Otherwise how on earth is any criminal case ever prosecuted in England and Wales?
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
It might be American but try watching an episode of Law & Order.
I see HYUFD has been sneakily trying to distort the meaning. He has changed 'collect' to 'collate' and in a post or two it will be 'assess' and he'll be crowing it's all about Mr Starmer (as was then) after all.
What's more. If Mr. Starmer was so blatantly, howlingly incompetent and corrupt*, how come the incoming Tory government kept him in post?
*The more cynical might suggest that made him ideally qualified.
Reportedly the king wants to move his brother Andrew into Frogmore, which he is kicking Harry and family out of, but Andrew wants to stay put in the Windsor Royal Lodge. This begs the question of who, if anybody, the king is planning to insert into the WRL. If I had to guess, I would guess somebody who is not a member of the royal family.
If I were the King I would move the Prince and Princess of Wales into WRL once Andrew is evicted and the Wessexes into Adelaide Cottage as their Windsor base
Bagshot Park is pretty much on the Windsor estate anyway so the Wessexes are already fine. I expect that the Crown could be looking to let the Royal Lodge for revenue. The King is said not to like Windsor so much, so possibly the Prince of Wales may be based more in the Castle.
If the king were to do it how HYUFD would do it, there would then be a question of who to move in to Bagshot Park. As well as the question of whether shuffling so many members of his family between residences as if they were Playmobil figures just because he's had a falling out with his second son might not be storing up trouble for the future.
If he were to let the WRL, how would the rent be set? Cheap to a friend wouldn't look good. Market rate to whichever Gulf oil sheikh slaps enough money on the table (money that's doubtless as clean as a whistle) and who perhaps keeps a fleet of gold-plated Rollers? Is that really the look the king wants? How much tax would he pay on the rental income? It would be far better not to change so much so fast. Win some respect, y'know? The monarchy's position is more precarious than he seems to think.
Similarly with telling the BBC to delay the Jimmy Savile documentary - if he did, and it sounds as though he did. Just accept that during his life this 74 year old has known a wrongun or two and nobody expects a man who was almost a lifelong Prince of Wales to have shown 100% good judgement across all those decades. Play it a bit Scandinavian too. Abolish curtseying and having men in tights grovel out of audience rooms backwards dressed like actors playing Richard III. Methinks his comms won't be run like that, though. He's a disaster waiting to happen.
Bagshot Park is in Surrey partly. Adelaide cottage is far closer to Windsor Castle itself for the Wessexes to also use if the Prince and Princess of Wales moved to Royal Lodge. Prince Anne could share Adelaide Cottage with the Wessexes as her main home is in Gloucestershire at Gatcombe Park
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
What record?
His record of being DPP when absolutely not a shred of evidence about Savile came anywhere close to crossing his desk.
SO HYUFD is saying up front that Mr Starmer did not prosecute Savile, in a discussion of politicians and the great and the good sucking up to Savile? As I recall, fellow Tory MPs were horrified - and said so - when Mr Johnson came up with that sort of stuff in the HoC. Where statements are not actionable. Here, on the other hand ...
Starmer didn't prosecute Savile when Director of the DPP, that is a matter of public record.
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
Is that how the DPP works? I always thought the police investigated crimes and then brought their evidence to the DPP to ascertain whether there was a strong enough case to prosecute. I didn't imagine that the DPP would go to the police and say "Look here chaps, that Saville chap seems a bit of a paedo, something not quite right about the cut of his jib - yes I know he spends Christmas with the Thatchers and is a prominent supporter of the Conservative party, but even so I sense he's a bad egg - bring me some evidence and I'll throw the book at him." I'm not a legal expert so I don't know how the whole thing works, but I imagine that HYUFD probably understands the whole thing perfectly and can tell us how it works. On the subject of Saville - taking down his statue - good call or bad call?
"It's OK to give the hospital keys to the national pervert because Tony Blair had him round for dinner once" is a great electoral slogan for the Tories?
I haven't noticed Edwina Currie on the Tory candidates list again?
I believe the former DPP who never prosecuted Savile might have something to do with the top of today's Labour Party though!
I’m surprised at you, that’s a little cheap.
Agree. What with the constant comments on Starmer being privately educated and this it is really a bit below HYUFD to make these misleading comments. It is not like they are errors. He knows they are misleading. I know he might come back with they are true statements, but they are incredibly disingenuous. I'm not a Starmer fan, but it wouldn't cross my mind to make these statements.
Though apparently earlier in the thread it is fine to trash the King or Thatcher government for having links with Savile. However mention Blair's links to Savile or SKS' record on Savile and that is a huge no no!
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone else does something you don't like does not make it ok for you to make utterly misleading comments about someone else. SKS doesn't have a record re Saville and you know it, so why say it?
The original tweet against the King came from Labour for a Republic. If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it out, that's politics!!
What? Your not attacking them though are you? You are libeling Starmer instead. So it has nothing to do with dishing it out and not taking it has it? How would you like it if someone unjustifiably accused you of negligence which resulted in you protecting a sex offender?
Nothing libellous about it. It is unarguable Starmer was head of the DPP from 2008 to 2011 when Savile was still alive and the CPS did not prosecute him.
If leftists like Labour for a Republic can't take what they dish out, tough!
Comments
Conservatives fearful of a radical government might be better off with a solid Labour majority.
All that video tells us is that a number of T14 shaped tanks were on a train.
Could be the M-4 thing, all over again.
8:49pm
The last question of the night: will Scotland ask for a similar arrangement that Northern Ireland has been granted with regards to membership of the EU single-market? #
Kate Forbes says "if Northern Ireland can do it, why can't Scotland?" [...]
Ash Regan says that while she would ask the UK Government for a similar arrangement she doesn't think it would be forthcoming.
She says that she thinks that the European Free Trade Association could be a good option for Scotland in the short-term because rejoining the EU may take "up to ten years"
Humza Yousaf says that the party should make sure the clip of Rishi Sunak preaching about the benefits of the EU single-market for Northern Ireland should "be in every living room"
"How dare they stop us from having what Northern Ireland has"
According to this ONS dataset, section 1c, the median house price to median earnings ratio in England and Wales peaked at a 7.16x multiplier in 2007. It then improved for a few years until 2013 before it started getting worse again, passing 2007's peak in 2015 and getting worse annually until 2021 was an 8.92x multiplier. 2019 was 7.73x if you want to look at pre-pandemic data.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ratioofhousepricetoresidencebasedearningslowerquartileandmedian
I'm not seeing a correction in house prices there. One is long overdue now.
I have sympathy with people in Germany in 1933, watching on astonished as people then, too, fell for cynical, right-wing, unicorn-promising bullshit. Let’s be honest, if born in a different time and place, the lunatics who brought us Brexit would have been burning books and firebombing synagogues, collarbones shattering as they flung their right arms high into the air.
It’s been nauseating to see the Brexit Borg on here frotting themselves silly over Sunak’s newly discovered genius in slightly damping down one corner of the raging bin fire the right-wing of this country has cheerfully dragged us into. Sunak, the moron who has the temerity to tell us how fortunate NI is to be in the single market. And the Borg frot away, trotting out the same tired lies.
And supposedly intelligent, dispassionate, coolly analytical types gaze upon the Tory-delivered bin fire, as prices rise, the rivers fill with shit, the shelves empty, food rots in the fields, industries wither, we have to devise the atrocity that is warm spaces, and smugly tell us that we’re better off.
Cameron trying to control his ERG nutters, putting party before country and accidentally taking us out of the EU, is like Hindenberg and von Papen thinking they were smart in taking Hitler into the fold.
In 25 years time, once the next generation have delivered their own stunde null and cast off the poisonous legacy bequeathed on them by the Boomers and the misty-eyed nostalgics, the deluded swivel-eyed nationalists weeping at the death of the Queen whilst carelessly screwing the country, we’ll look back on the past few years with horror.
Yes, I am very bitter.
If you want the British government to repeal and abolish the GFA then say so, but if not, well we are where we are.
What is symbolically interesting too is that from the moment we accede to the CPTPP, the CPTPP will be a larger trade zone economically than the European Union itself. Not really important, but its interesting because many people like to say still that the EU is the world's largest trade zone when it isn't, its only the third-largest already but when we join the CPTPP it won't even be in a podium position anymore.
Of course, not going to happen.
Like the "unicorn" of getting a trade agreement with the EU which means no dynamic alignment on rules, no hard border in Ireland, and no hard border in the Irish Sea? I remember for years demanding that particular "unicorn" and being ridiculed for seeking a unicorn as "obviously" there had to either be alignment or a hard border somewhere.
Yet we have the unicorn now. Turns out, the unicorns were the solution all along. Compromise is possible, and unicorns are real.
So be a bit less bitter and see what other unicorns we can find are real. Its a joyous thing, so turn that frown upside down.
Then if they refuse again, we say 'your salary's 2p off.'
In an ideal world I'm a big fan of FPTP and having a strong majority government, but the GFA disagrees with that for fairly obvious reasons so we are where we are.
A few years ago the entire country of Belgium went two years without any government.
Not sure I agree entirely, though - The 2000’s-2016 major surge in immigration simply did not have popular consent. The backlash was ugly, but in hindsight, seems almost inevitable.
The liberal establishment had contracted American dreams;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRCsO2kJwXw
So again, we are where we are. If you wish to turn the clock back to repeal the GFA then we can talk about that, but if not then it needs to be accepted warts and all.
@CountBinface
This photo is now on my mantelpiece.
Compromise is hard, and the power-sharing structure of Stormont forces Unionists and Nationalists to make compromises with each other. If you simply allow a majority to override one community or the other then there's no longer any incentive to find a compromise - you only need to get to a majority. Add a bit of gerrymandering in and that's exactly the mess Northern Ireland was in during the 60s when the civil rights movement started.
So, no shortcuts. Personally I reckon it's worth making an appeal to Unionist voters to vote for the UUP to restore power-sharing, but if the Unionist voters decide to vote for the DUP instead you have to find a way to deal with that, not ignore it.
What a *&^%£*"%* idiot!
A throwback to everyone's favourite European Twitter commentator during Covid19 and FBPE Favourite Dave Keating, from when I was opposing Theresa May's deal, is well worth looking back at today: https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1053224418653159425
Dave Keating
@DaveKeating
19 Oct 2018
So what exactly is the Irish border backstop problem in the #Brexit talks? I break it down on France 24. [video]
In other words, the #Brexit trilemma:
What solution do we have today to the Trilemma?
Probably one of the less dangerous ways this could play out is that Israel destroys Iran's enrichment facilities before they reach that point, and Iran blows up anything that tries to carry hydrocarbons through the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation. Would presumably make the cost of living crisis of the last year look like a time of milk and honey.
I'll let Leon handle the worst-case scenarios.
Edit - I have to say, some of the quotes attributed to Boris made me think better of him. Which, given the amount of drivel I imagine he spouted on WhatsApp, tells you everything you need to know about the motives of the leakers.
In this situation there doesn't appear to be a compromise that the DUP will accept - basically they are taking the position of "we get whatever we want from HMG and if we don't then we take the ball home".
At the moment having Stormont suspended, and replaced by direct rule from Westminster, is not equally uncomfortable for Unionists and Nationalists.
So I'm not sure why this is revelatory...
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/10/vicky-pryce-and-isabel-oakeshott-friends
If you are choosing someone to confide in, then Isabel Oakshott must be right at the bottom, below even Rebekah Vardy.
However, hiring & paying Isabel Oakshott for the privilege of being shopped ... that is a whole new level of fuckwittery.
“When goods move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, they will now move without customs bureaucracy, they will move without routine customs checks,” he told Radio 4.
But that’s not quite what the Windsor Framework says. The 26-page agreement contains provisions for bureaucracy that would not apply to goods moving between, say, England and Wales.
For example, the Framework says businesses will have to provide “commercial data” to an official body to move goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.
Later, the Framework says that a lorry entering Northern Ireland from England, Wales or Scotland would need a “document confirming that goods are staying in Northern Ireland and are moved in line with the terms of our internal market scheme”...
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-does-new-northern-ireland-brexit-deal-remove-any-sense-of-an-irish-sea-border
A very light touch border, sure. But more of a border than between, say Portsmouth and the Isle of WIght.
Rishi has done very well. But when you overclaim, you risk creating trouble down the line.
Good job I most likely have a convenient vacancy for a Premier League team to root for next season.
Most critics of the DUP think it entirely fair and reasonable for Sinn Fein to shut down the Assembly, if they can’t get their way.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
At that point the political rather than trading nature of the enterprise, obvious to many for years, could not be concealed from anybody.
There are two separate questions: Did eurocratic politicised nonsense make Brexit very likely and could it have been avoided by a bit of common sense and democracy? Yes.
Has the UK handled post 2016 well? No.
Brexit was a vote that it was worth leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, because of all the benefits that taking back control would bring.
NI now is in the utterly remarkable position of having those benefits, without having to pay the price for those benefits. A true win/win and how can you possibly deny that its in a better position now?
Nowhere in the EU, nowhere else in the world, gets all the benefits of being out of the EU, while also getting the benefits of being in, simultaneously.
Did I say that? No.
When Boris first dropped the DUP in it with his protocol deal I was very amused at how the DUP had been betrayed, and I felt they had deserved their comeuppance. They'd played for high stakes, and they'd lost. But I've come to realise that my delight at their discomfort was misplaced. Because it was ultimately Unionist voters in Northern Ireland who felt betrayed, and that outcome contradicts the basis of the GFA, which is about finding a compromise that both sides can grudgingly accept.
So doing an end run around the DUP might be temporarily appealing, but it creates more trouble down the line as the lesson that Unionists would be entitled to take from it is that the GFA is a sham. Brexit has done damage to the Northern Ireland peace process by removing the border-smudging effect of UK and Irish membership of the EU. The DUP and Unionist voters need to be cajoled back into power-sharing, not coerced.
And it really isn't.
Two obnoxious pig headed Parties putting their own shibboleths above the people of NI don't make a right
You don’t like the Peace Process, do you?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/01/ministers-rally-behind-covid-inquiry-after-hancock-whatsapp-revelations
There was an NDA agreement? Wtf was it for if it couldn't stop Oakshott disclosing the WhatsApp messages?
Now he may argue he didn't have sufficient evidence at the time to do so but one could also ask why had they not obtained that evidence given what we now know?
*but perhaps he had permission from all the people in the 10e5 calls, and the Cabinet Office, to be fair.
Man United v Fulham.
Brighton v Grimsby.
Sheff Utd v Blackburn.
Bit disappointing considering what it could have been.
United v City
Grimsby v Sheff Utd
Brighton v Fulham
Blackburn v Burnley.
Imagine that
Rejoin has died with the WF, they are beginning to realise it and now the rants are starting. It won't be long until they attempt to nitpick the WF apart as not really what was asked for or that the EU didn't give up very much or that this deal is somehow going to lead to rejoining. You can see it here already but that will pass and all they'll be left with is the anger with no ability to move on.
More, drooling, raving lunatic, for whom feeding and dressing himself must be a constant struggle.
Edit: Unless he leaves her high and dry like he did his wife...
The police are the folk who detect and investigate crimes. Not the DPP.
For a parallel think how Canadians would feel about ever closer political union with the USA.
To be honest in this case I'd have been happy with what had been talked about just before Christmas (I think it was) - re-running the election. If you do that, and you still have the same outcome, ok, fair enough. But those same people you mentioned seem to have at least the right to be asked again if they still want to stick with their same choices even if it means ultimate stalemate continues to be possible or likely.
It won't be easy, and it won't be quick, but it's the only way that has a chance of ending up with a Britain that is comfortable as an EU member.
“The iPhone 15 series will only support USB-C accessories certified by Apple through the Made for iPhone (MFi) program”
https://twitter.com/theapplehub/status/1630800278336446464
Absolutely the largest part of the rise was from 1997 to 2007, but it has according to the ONS continued to rise rather than fall back since.
It might be American but try watching an episode of Law & Order.
Edit: Not sure they "collate" either?
Isn't "a file has been sent to the DPP" the standard phrase?
Far more experts than me on that on here.
If he were to let the WRL, how would the rent be set? Cheap to a friend wouldn't look good. Market rate to whichever Gulf oil sheikh slaps enough money on the table (money that's doubtless as clean as a whistle) and who perhaps keeps a fleet of gold-plated Rollers? Is that really the look the king wants? How much tax would he pay on the rental income? It would be far better not to change so much so fast. Win some respect, y'know? The monarchy's position is more precarious than he seems to think.
Similarly with telling the BBC to delay the Jimmy Savile documentary - if he did, and it sounds as though he did. Just accept that during his life this 74 year old has known a wrongun or two and nobody expects a man who was almost a lifelong Prince of Wales to have shown 100% good judgement across all those decades. Play it a bit Scandinavian. Abolish curtseying and making men wearing Nureyev-style tights grovel out of audience rooms backwards looking like actors playing Richard III. Scale the coronation down. Methinks his comms won't be run like that, though. He's a disaster waiting to happen.
If Mr. Starmer was so blatantly, howlingly incompetent and corrupt*, how come the incoming Tory government kept him in post?
*The more cynical might suggest that made him ideally qualified.
Gloucestershire at Gatcombe Park
I'm not a legal expert so I don't know how the whole thing works, but I imagine that HYUFD probably understands the whole thing perfectly and can tell us how it works.
On the subject of Saville - taking down his statue - good call or bad call?
If leftists like Labour for a Republic can't take what they dish out, tough!