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Better CON polls will likely send this betting in the opposite direction – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited March 2023 in General
imageBetter CON polls will likely send this betting in the opposite direction – politicalbetting.com

What is becoming clear over the past couple of days is that Sunak appears to be doing very well.

Read the full story here

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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    We've seen a modest improvement in consumer sentiment too, which will likely drive some narrowing in the polls.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,184
    2nd like CON will be
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    I'd favour the Lab v Con majority v hung parliament market for greater volatility. A few more positive Con polls could drop the Lab majority betting quite sharply.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    Andy_JS said:

    New article by Jonathan Sumption.

    "The death of historical truth
    The New Roundheads can't see beyond race"

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/the-death-of-historical-truth/

    Whoa, that was a long read. Tldr; Posh white bloke says it's wrong to blame posh white blokes for everything and absurd to wonder if non posh non white non blokes have been unfairly treated by traditional historical scholarship. MRDA.
    I particularly liked the bit where he mansplained Edward Said and Foucault as if he was the first person to have ever read their work and claimed that the Rhodes must Fall crowd had probably never heard of them - which makes me wonder how seriously he has engaged with the other side of the argument as these authors essentially wrote the foundational texts in this area and their work will inevitably come up in any conversation among excitable woke undergraduates on this topic.
    I would recommend reading Orientalism BTW. It's a bit boring and long-winded but compared to this Lord Sumption piece it's the Gettysburg Address. Said was a Palestinian and on a day when the Israeli finance minister has allegedly called for a Palestinian village to be wiped out his attack on colonialism and the colonialist mindset seems as relevant as ever.
    It's the usual Sumption article - he's written the thing so many times, he must have a travesty generator working off one article to create new ones.

    The whole "post truth" thing has been terribly misused, though. I recall an anguished article from some philosophers denying that "there is no such thing as truth" meant what Trump (and some Trumpets) had turned it into. i.e. Straight up lies are valid because "I want them to be true".
    Nothing worse than a historian turned lawyer.
    Much has been gained by people moving from one profession to another and seeing new things. About 0.0001% of the time, though.

    The rest of the time the members of the later profession are holding their heads, screaming "That was proved wrong in 1576"
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    On topic - I would expect that any effect from the good news will take a week or 2 to come through in the polls.

    And depends heavily on how rapidly we get back to scandals and fuckups.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    Selebian said:

    I'd favour the Lab v Con majority v hung parliament market for greater volatility. A few more positive Con polls could drop the Lab majority betting quite sharply.

    Yes, could be a nice peak in Labour majority.
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    Gas bills going up in April though.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    What will resonate more - some nonsense that just impacts Northern Ireland or the government killing pensioners?

    I don't see a Tory bounce coming any time soon.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    What will resonate more - some nonsense that just impacts Northern Ireland or the government killing pensioners?

    I don't see a Tory bounce coming any time soon.

    I don't expect a bounce. Or much of one, to be exact. Too far gone.

    But decrying the Northern Ireland deal on the basis that it just affects NI is not correct either, I think. This is a genuine win for good government all round, given the constraints of the issue. And it may well have knock on effects in other areas.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    edited March 2023
    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105

    Gas bills going up in April though.

    Probably won't happen. The government isn't completely stupid.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    Sunak is good. Question is whether people are (a) paying attention, (b) care about his successes and (c) are willing to revisit their views of him and the government as a result.

    Personally, I think his PM ratings will notch up a tad but the Conservative brand is shot.

    He's still going for the hundred as the night watchman though, and doing very well at the crease.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,184

    What will resonate more - some nonsense that just impacts Northern Ireland or the government killing pensioners?

    I don't see a Tory bounce coming any time soon.

    I don't expect a bounce. Or much of one, to be exact. Too far gone.

    But decrying the Northern Ireland deal on the basis that it just affects NI is not correct either, I think. This is a genuine win for good government all round, given the constraints of the issue. And it may well have knock on effects in other areas.
    Its also an indicator of much better relationships with out European partners and friends. Got to be a good thing. I think we will see progress with Macron and the boats soon too.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Sunak 'looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors' - that's due to them, happily, being far away?

    ETA: But yes, vaguely competent looks impressive when compared to Truss and Johnson. Starmer has also benefitted from this, of course.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    What will resonate more - some nonsense that just impacts Northern Ireland or the government killing pensioners?

    I don't see a Tory bounce coming any time soon.

    I don't expect a bounce. Or much of one, to be exact. Too far gone.

    But decrying the Northern Ireland deal on the basis that it just affects NI is not correct either, I think. This is a genuine win for good government all round, given the constraints of the issue. And it may well have knock on effects in other areas.
    Its also an indicator of much better relationships with out European partners and friends. Got to be a good thing. I think we will see progress with Macron and the boats soon too.
    Not sure on the boats - there is too much pressure locally to let them sail. To stop them is to upset French locals.

    Note that the big crackdown was when immigrants started hindering the operation of the Channel Tunnel. Which the French see as one of the jewels of National Infrastructure. Once that problem was dealt with, it was back to the usual.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737
    Starmer actually being rated positive, not merely doing better than Sunak, is significant IMO.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737
    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Agreed on all counts. Unlike the loons, clowns and twits that proceeded him, he is at least vaguely sensible and professional and polite to our international allies and partners.

    Under him, we at least have the chance to overturn our reputation as a global laughing stock. Faint praise, perhaps, but Not Boris-Not Truss isn't to be sniffed at.

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,719
    edited March 2023
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I rather think standing on something left by the predecessor(s) - namely this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnun8y7r8_U
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    I think a little bounce only (if any). Joe Public has no interest in NI or ongoing banter over Brexit which has happened.

    However, I have a hunch that Sunak's quiet head-down, get-on-with-the-job style will ratchet up admiration gradually. A slow burner.

    The recent edition of of the The Times Red Box Podcast was interesting - the one where they have the monthly voter focus group. This time it was a group of 2019 CP voters who plan to vote Labour next time. A small sample I know but what came through is that their disillusionment goes back to Johnson and Truss and folk do have short memories. And the Labour lead is soft. And they prefer Sunak to Starmer even though that plan to vote Labour.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    Some things are unknowable. Not finding yourself in situations like this like this might help though.

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    The only man convicted over the murder of a British tourist by Somali pirates has been freed after a police watchdog found that a Scotland Yard officer omitted crucial evidence.

    Detective Chief Inspector Neil Hibberd helped investigate the murder of David Tebbutt at a beachside resort on the Kenyan island of Kiwayu in 2011.

    Tebbutt, 58, finance director of the publishing firm Faber and Faber, was shot in the head as he tried to fight off the gang. His wife Judith was kidnapped and held hostage for six months until a ransom of £800,000 was paid.

    Hibberd gave evidence in the 2013 trial of Ali Kololo, a Kenyan woodcutter, who was convicted of kidnap and robbery. His death sentence was later commuted to life imprisonment.

    Judith Tebbutt, 67, from Hertfordshire, supported a campaign by Reprieve, the charity, to overturn the conviction, saying Kololo was made a “scapegoat” by Scotland Yard detectives who failed to track down her true attackers.

    “I know for sure that he wasn’t part of that group that took me that night,” she said last year. “The people that took me are still out there.”

    Kololo was released from jail last month and is expected to have his conviction quashed in April because of concerns about Hibberd’s evidence.

    The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said today it assisted in preparation for his appeal.

    The watchdog found that while the officer was working on the investigation in England, he omitted “significant forensic evidence” relating to footwear worn by Kololo and included statements from the suspect’s account in breach of instructions agreed by the Home Office.

    The IOPC said: “In our view these amounted to potential breaches of the police standards of professional behaviour for honesty and integrity, and duties and responsibilities.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scotland-yard-detective-helped-put-wrong-man-in-jail-finds-police-watchdog-p226qqfb9
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    Gas bills going up in April though.

    Probably won't happen. The government isn't completely stupid.
    They will surely find a way to keep the subsidy going. The handout worked in terms of quieting the public angst over the winter.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,503
    FPT: I have long thought that Sturgeon's Law is generally applicable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law

    But that the percentages varied widely from time to time, and place to place. There is reason to believe, for example, that the percentage is higher for psychology research papers, than for physics research papers.

    (What is the percentage now for science fiction? I have not read enough of the recent stuff to say with any certainty, but would note that Sturgeon said that during science fiction's "Golden Age", so I suspect that he would think it now higher than 90 percent.)
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Who is counting chickens? I think getting a majority will be very hard, even most seats is a push, given the rotten electoral legacy left by JBC and pals.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737
    He's all over the place, and been on a real journey.

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Well, true, Keir might fall just short just as Corbyn did in 2017. And that would be a failure (though Corbynites would presumably disagree, since shortening the gap even though starting from less far back was deemed a victory). But he is not just ahead, he is positively rated - that is not that usual for politicians.

    It isn't simply that it is midterm.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    edited March 2023
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Sunak 'looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors' - that's due to them, happily, being far away?

    ETA: But yes, vaguely competent looks impressive when compared to Truss and Johnson. Starmer has also benefitted from this, of course.
    Ha, yes. Although not far enough as far as I'm concerned. Johnson and Truss. What a sad and sorry episode. Is politics regaining its pre-populist credentials here, I wonder? Would be a good thing imo if so. Yes, it can be boring, and there's a risk of the 2 parties becoming too similar as regards policy, but I've started to hate populism more than just about anything now. I'm almost at the stage where if I know something is incredibly popular with the public I just assume it's either undesirable or undeliverable.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    There are no extreme-leftist eggs left to hatch, just sayin'
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    kle4 said:

    He's all over the place, and been on a real journey.

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Well, true, Keir might fall just short just as Corbyn did in 2017. And that would be a failure (though Corbynites would presumably disagree, since shortening the gap even though starting from less far back was deemed a victory). But he is not just ahead, he is positively rated - that is not that usual for politicians.

    It isn't simply that it is midterm.
    Still love this.


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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    edited March 2023
    I enjoyed Sumption's use of the phrase 'sanctimonious philistinism.' Sums it up quite well. What I find so dismaying is why ignorant fools using weird literary theories are being allowed to desecrate science. Even more troublingly expressing such views as mine are nowadays likely to be labelled 'right wing.' However I still consider myself a progressive as were the scientists who fought against medieval religion and superstition.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,534
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    I think a little bounce only (if any). Joe Public has no interest in NI or ongoing banter over Brexit which has happened.

    However, I have a hunch that Sunak's quiet head-down, get-on-with-the-job style will ratchet up admiration gradually. A slow burner.

    The recent edition of of the The Times Red Box Podcast was interesting - the one where they have the monthly voter focus group. This time it was a group of 2019 CP voters who plan to vote Labour next time. A small sample I know but what came through is that their disillusionment goes back to Johnson and Truss and folk do have short memories. And the Labour lead is soft. And they prefer Sunak to Starmer even though that plan to vote Labour.
    It is pretty obvious that Sunak's job is to lose with grace and dignity, such that he may even keep his job as leader, and enable to Tory party to become once again capable of being a One Nation serious government. The sort that doesn't send its citizenship dirty washing to Bangladesh or its refugees to Rwanda. He needs to work harder on that front.

    I have voted Tory in GEs for nearly 50 years. I am not going to this time on simple moral, competence and sanity grounds. The question is whether I (and a few million others) do so delightedly or with some regret that we have to.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
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    Over the next couple of days we should be getting published polls from PeoplePolling, Techne and Omnisis; whilst an Opinium is due over the weekend. Other polling companies are likely to make an appearence, for example we have not yet had the February Ipsos.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    edited March 2023
    kle4 said:

    He's all over the place, and been on a real journey.

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Well, true, Keir might fall just short just as Corbyn did in 2017. And that would be a failure (though Corbynites would presumably disagree, since shortening the gap even though starting from less far back was deemed a victory). But he is not just ahead, he is positively rated - that is not that usual for politicians.

    It isn't simply that it is midterm.
    Isn't he following in a proud tradition of British leftists, see Michael Foot or George Orwell, who have insisted on confronting evil?
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    It is a relief to have a grown up PM who seems to be liked by those meeting him and you would never have heard UVDL address Johnson in the same terms as 'dear Rishi'

    It is good he has addressed Johnson's NIP and also that he is looking at joining Horizon and cooperation with not only France but Brussels over the boat issue

    His enthusiasm for NI and the single market may hint at his direction of travel once he has sidelined the extreme members of the ERG, indeed a move to joining the single market would be a game changer

    I think any poll improvement will be gradual but important events are coming along very quickly in the calender:

    March budget with hopefully further help on fuel bills

    Early April 10.1% increases in pensions and benefits

    Early April increase in the minimum wage

    May coronation

    And hopefully resolution of the nurses pay dispute

    And finally Labour have to take on someone who does detail
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
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    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    I don't expect a vast increase in the polls but hopefully a few points will be reclaimed from Labour and the LDs for the Tories even if not much movement back from RefUK
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    edited March 2023
    Earlier Sean Fear quoted the introduction to War Of The Worlds. Best spoken of course by Richard Burton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poii8JAbtng
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Gas bills going up in April though.

    Let's see what happens on budget day.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    Off topic, but I see that Kostas Karamanlis, the Greek Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, has taken responsibility and resigned following the tragic train crash.

    I remember the days when our politicians used to (sometimes) take such responsibility.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,503
    Off topic, but important: Lori Lightfoot lost:
    "Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot lost her bid for a second term Tuesday, failing to make a top-two runoff in the latest demonstration of growing concerns about crime in one of the nation’s largest cities.

    Paul Vallas, a long-time public schools chief who ran on a tough-on-crime message, and Brandon Johnson, a Cook County commissioner backed by progressives and the Chicago Teachers Union, will advance to the April runoff, CNN projects.

    Tuesday’s municipal election marked the first time in more than 30 years that Chicago has ditched its mayor. Lightfoot could not overcome years of fights with the police and teachers’ unions, a spike in violent crime during her administration and Chicago’s slow recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic."
    source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/chicago-mayor-election-results/index.html

    (You can find some numbers on crime in Chicago here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago For me, one of the consistently most troubling is the "reported murder clearance rate".)
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    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I would just say that I agree the NIP concentrated minds, but it took a very different leader to Johnson and Truss to gain the trust and even be liked by the EU and their leaders to achieve what Rishi has done this week
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I find many of your posts genuinely interesting. You come at things from a different angle and, more than any almost other contributor, you come up with things I just have not thought of. But you are wrong on this. The Protocol bill was the dying embers of the UK government behaving like a (insert a suitable but still politically correct word, really not sure anymore) child. Pathetic and, more importantly not a reliable partner. Sunak has shown that being an adult is much, much more productive.

    Well done him.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    I wonder if there will be a rush?

    Belarus is offering Polish nationals visa free access from the EU

    The official justification is that there is overwhelming demand in Poland for visa-free access to Belarus


    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1630985574109663232?s=20
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I find many of your posts genuinely interesting. You come at things from a different angle and, more than any almost other contributor, you come up with things I just have not thought of. But you are wrong on this. The Protocol bill was the dying embers of the UK government behaving like a (insert a suitable but still politically correct word, really not sure anymore) child. Pathetic and, more importantly not a reliable partner. Sunak has shown that being an adult is much, much more productive.

    Well done him.
    You genuinely think the EU would have resolved the NI problem in a way so favourable to the UK without the threat of the NIP Bill? I can't see what incentive they would have had for even entering talks without it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    Ok, enough, my sides are hurting.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167

    It is a relief to have a grown up PM who seems to be liked by those meeting him and you would never have heard UVDL address Johnson in the same terms as 'dear Rishi'

    It is good he has addressed Johnson's NIP and also that he is looking at joining Horizon and cooperation with not only France but Brussels over the boat issue

    His enthusiasm for NI and the single market may hint at his direction of travel once he has sidelined the extreme members of the ERG, indeed a move to joining the single market would be a game changer

    I think any poll improvement will be gradual but important events are coming along very quickly in the calender:

    March budget with hopefully further help on fuel bills

    Early April 10.1% increases in pensions and benefits

    Early April increase in the minimum wage

    May coronation

    And hopefully resolution of the nurses pay dispute

    And finally Labour have to take on someone who does detail

    He needs to resolve the public sector strikes as well.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    Earlier Sean Fear quoted the introduction to War Of The Worlds. Best spoken of course by Richard Burton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poii8JAbtng

    Just a genuinely brilliant voice. And the music is not bad either.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I find many of your posts genuinely interesting. You come at things from a different angle and, more than any almost other contributor, you come up with things I just have not thought of. But you are wrong on this. The Protocol bill was the dying embers of the UK government behaving like a (insert a suitable but still politically correct word, really not sure anymore) child. Pathetic and, more importantly not a reliable partner. Sunak has shown that being an adult is much, much more productive.

    Well done him.
    Hmm, even some ardent remainers have admitted today that Rishi taking the NIPB off the table is what helped kick start the talks. If it wasn't on the table it's difficult to see how we would have brought the EU to the table. Again, I refer back to their own statements that there was nothing to negotiate and it was up to the UK to abide by the original deal.

    The WF is partially down to the presence of A16 in the NIP and partially because the UK had the ability to climb down from somewhere. I think the end result is owed to lots of other factors but one can't deny that Frost getting A16 into the NIP was a big factor in getting the EU to talk to us and climbing down from the NIPB gave Rishi a free hit in giving something up to look reasonable.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,432
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I find many of your posts genuinely interesting. You come at things from a different angle and, more than any almost other contributor, you come up with things I just have not thought of. But you are wrong on this. The Protocol bill was the dying embers of the UK government behaving like a (insert a suitable but still politically correct word, really not sure anymore) child. Pathetic and, more importantly not a reliable partner. Sunak has shown that being an adult is much, much more productive.

    Well done him.
    Slightly more tactfully, Johnson and Cummings were like the Fry and Laurie businessmen, who did little more than say DAMN at each other. Their model of winning is the other guy losing.

    Acting crazy can win in a single encounter. But the second time, the other party knows it's an act and learns to ignore it.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    Ok, enough, my sides are hurting.
    This is all Sunak.

    Like John Major in 1997 if he loses in 2024 Sunak will be remembered with honour because of Northern Ireland.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    Heathener said:

    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.

    I am still sticking to a hung parliament, in 2009 Cameron had almost as big a lead as Starmer does now
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737
    edited March 2023

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    On the contrary, I think it is almost certainly true that the bill played a role in the success of the negotiations. I don't think Boris could have closed this deal, because I don't think he had a political interest in doing so, whereas Sunak did, but he had something to concede that allowed him to achieve it.

    I'm just having fun with the obvious bind Boris finds himself in in deciding to either claim credit for the new deal, or to trash it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    I am puzzled why you seem to be having difficulty understanding the role played by the Protocol Bill in the success of (even in the existence of) the current negotiations. Let me know if you need a clearer explanation.
    I find many of your posts genuinely interesting. You come at things from a different angle and, more than any almost other contributor, you come up with things I just have not thought of. But you are wrong on this. The Protocol bill was the dying embers of the UK government behaving like a (insert a suitable but still politically correct word, really not sure anymore) child. Pathetic and, more importantly not a reliable partner. Sunak has shown that being an adult is much, much more productive.

    Well done him.
    You genuinely think the EU would have resolved the NI problem in a way so favourable to the UK without the threat of the NIP Bill? I can't see what incentive they would have had for even entering talks without it.
    Yes. I genuinely do. Time and changes of personnel has helped. The EU wants a close relationship with the UK again. Ukraine, where Boris genuinely did do well, showed that we need each other and it was time to put away the tantrums and petulance on both sides.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    Off topic, but I see that Kostas Karamanlis, the Greek Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, has taken responsibility and resigned following the tragic train crash.

    I remember the days when our politicians used to (sometimes) take such responsibility.

    That did not always result in the outcomes you are thinking of.

    The Carrington resignation over the Falklands effectively protected those in the Foreign Office who had hidden and denied the signs of the coming war. Including destroying the career of the SIS chap in Argentina who had upset lots of people with his silly reports about Argentine military preparations.

    This was long a pattern - a minister resigns. No need to change anything or ask what went wrong. Didn’t you hear? The minister resigned.
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.

    You may be right but this week the conservative party finally got a grown up, intelligent leader and PM who does detail and in the process ending Johnson's influence in the party

    Starmer faces a very different opponent over the next 18 months, and there is a very real danger that Labour and their supporters become overconfident and hubristic
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Heathener said:

    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.

    4 weeks from now? Has there been a general election called for March 30th? I missed that.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,926
    Sunak has a chance of turning things around for the Tories if he uses his NI deal as a template.

    Surprise on the upside, deal with big issues in a competent and detailed way, don’t talk horseshit but save the talk until delivered.

    If you think about the NI deal he managed to get two ministers who ostensibly had no reason to be so loyal - Baker of the ERG and Not so Cleverly who was a Boris man - to shut up, work hard even if they might have reservations, no leaks.

    If he can turn to his colleagues and say they have a chance if they knuckle down and behave like adults, get big ticket issues done, hold out quietly re tax cuts when economy is strong then they might just do it if they have seen the reception across the board to NI/Windsor.

    It will mean totally pushing aside the idiots on the extreme but core part discipline might just yield results.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Heathener said:

    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.

    You may be right but this week the conservative party finally got a grown up, intelligent leader and PM who does detail and in the process ending Johnson's influence in the party

    Starmer faces a very different opponent over the next 18 months, and there is a very real danger that Labour and their supporters become overconfident and hubristic
    The Baker moment...

  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Heathener said:

    I don't think the polls will shift at all. Certainly not 4 weeks from now.

    The dye is cast. There is no way back for the tories. Labour will win a landslide majority.

    You may be right but this week the conservative party finally got a grown up, intelligent leader and PM who does detail and in the process ending Johnson's influence in the party

    Starmer faces a very different opponent over the next 18 months, and there is a very real danger that Labour and their supporters become overconfident and hubristic
    Become?

    You're talking to Heathener!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417

    kle4 said:

    He's all over the place, and been on a real journey.

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Well, true, Keir might fall just short just as Corbyn did in 2017. And that would be a failure (though Corbynites would presumably disagree, since shortening the gap even though starting from less far back was deemed a victory). But he is not just ahead, he is positively rated - that is not that usual for politicians.

    It isn't simply that it is midterm.
    Isn't he following in a proud tradition of British leftists, see Michael Foot or George Orwell, who have insisted on confronting evil?
    I don't think Starmer deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Foot. And I'm no Michael Foot fan.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046

    kle4 said:

    He's all over the place, and been on a real journey.

    Keir Starmer February Report Card:

    In the last month in our polls, Keir Starmer has

    – Extended LAB's lead in GB to 27%
    – Gained 4% in approval in GB, 6% in Red Wall
    – Increased lead over Sunak for best PM to 9%
    – Grown LAB’s lead as most trusted on economy, NHS & immigration







    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1630978705651539968?s=20

    Decent numbers for SKS.

    JBC fans please explain.
    GE is 22 months away.

    No time for counting Centrist Chickens just yet.
    Well, true, Keir might fall just short just as Corbyn did in 2017. And that would be a failure (though Corbynites would presumably disagree, since shortening the gap even though starting from less far back was deemed a victory). But he is not just ahead, he is positively rated - that is not that usual for politicians.

    It isn't simply that it is midterm.
    Isn't he following in a proud tradition of British leftists, see Michael Foot or George Orwell, who have insisted on confronting evil?
    I don't think Starmer deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Foot. And I'm no Michael Foot fan.
    I meant Paul Mason.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737

    Earlier Sean Fear quoted the introduction to War Of The Worlds. Best spoken of course by Richard Burton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poii8JAbtng

    A work of genius.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417

    Off topic, but I see that Kostas Karamanlis, the Greek Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, has taken responsibility and resigned following the tragic train crash.

    I remember the days when our politicians used to (sometimes) take such responsibility.

    That did not always result in the outcomes you are thinking of.

    The Carrington resignation over the Falklands effectively protected those in the Foreign Office who had hidden and denied the signs of the coming war. Including destroying the career of the SIS chap in Argentina who had upset lots of people with his silly reports about Argentine military preparations.

    This was long a pattern - a minister resigns. No need to change anything or ask what went wrong. Didn’t you hear? The minister resigned.
    Yes, worth remembering that today's lack of accountability in the CS and quangos isn't new.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    It’s supposed to be good cop / bad cop - not mad cop.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    Off topic, but I see that Kostas Karamanlis, the Greek Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, has taken responsibility and resigned following the tragic train crash.

    I remember the days when our politicians used to (sometimes) take such responsibility.

    I'm okay-ish with the relevant minister resigning.

    I am less okay with the local stationmaster being charged with "manslaughter by negligence and grievous bodily harm by negligence" at this stage.

    I don't know about the Greek signalling system, but no modernish signalling system - heck, post-Victorian signalling system - should allow two trains into a section at a time. The chances are that, whilst he might have done something wrong, there were also other more systematic failures that allowed him to do something wrong.

    Charging him at this stage provides authorities with an 'easy' answer and makes it less likely to find any systematic causal factors. Worse, he may understandably be reticent to tell them what actually went on.

    Sad to say, in this sort of case it is more important to work out *what* went wrong to stop it happening again, than to allocate blame amongst people who would never have wanted it to happen.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    boulay said:

    Sunak has a chance of turning things around for the Tories if he uses his NI deal as a template.

    Surprise on the upside, deal with big issues in a competent and detailed way, don’t talk horseshit but save the talk until delivered.

    If you think about the NI deal he managed to get two ministers who ostensibly had no reason to be so loyal - Baker of the ERG and Not so Cleverly who was a Boris man - to shut up, work hard even if they might have reservations, no leaks.

    If nothing else the very few leaks and limited off-the-record briefing was impressive, we could do with this behaviour becoming the norm.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,737

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    Ok, enough, my sides are hurting.
    This is all Sunak.

    Like John Major in 1997 if he loses in 2024 Sunak will be remembered with honour because of Northern Ireland.
    After about 10 years have passed maybe.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Taz said:

    It is a relief to have a grown up PM who seems to be liked by those meeting him and you would never have heard UVDL address Johnson in the same terms as 'dear Rishi'

    It is good he has addressed Johnson's NIP and also that he is looking at joining Horizon and cooperation with not only France but Brussels over the boat issue

    His enthusiasm for NI and the single market may hint at his direction of travel once he has sidelined the extreme members of the ERG, indeed a move to joining the single market would be a game changer

    I think any poll improvement will be gradual but important events are coming along very quickly in the calender:

    March budget with hopefully further help on fuel bills

    Early April 10.1% increases in pensions and benefits

    Early April increase in the minimum wage

    May coronation

    And hopefully resolution of the nurses pay dispute

    And finally Labour have to take on someone who does detail

    He needs to resolve the public sector strikes as well.
    Yes. And from the front. No more nonsense with pay boards and the like. He needs to lead.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    I would applaud him going on col if he had a solution. He doesn't, a fact highlighted to me by SKS fans last week linking to his solution. His plan is to have a plan.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    What would you have him say?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    edited March 2023

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    I would applaud him going on col if he had a solution. He doesn't, a fact highlighted to me by SKS fans last week linking to his solution. His plan is to have a plan.
    That he reneges on in months as with all his other oven ready plans/ pledges/missions
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    edited March 2023
    My prediction, for what it's worth, is that the polls will narrow quite significantly during this year and up until the next GE is called, although Labour will retain a lead throughout.

    However, I expect the polls to widen again (in Labour's favour) once the GE campaign is under way. I base this on Labour's/Starmer's ruthless determination to win. I think they'll run a more professional, consistent and united GE campaign than the Tories, focusing on the right balance of emphasising Tory failure in government and promoting a Labour offer that provides enough optimism and sound policies to satisfy enough voters.

    But, like everybody else, I'm just guessing really. Voter volatility is the name of the game.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,534

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    Ok, enough, my sides are hurting.
    This is all Sunak.

    Like John Major in 1997 if he loses in 2024 Sunak will be remembered with honour because of Northern Ireland.
    Maybe. But we don't know yet in what form exactly the DUP will reject the deal.

    If that happens we are still into a prolonged stalemate in NI. And if, in fact, the real DUP position is that they have no intention of helping form an NI government in current circumstances then this will soon be forgotten.

    I wonder what Westminster's plan B is for NI politically in that case.

    Perhaps it's time they were all told that an independent NI with UN peacekeepers is the only next option.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,032
    @kjh FPT

    When I were a lad… we used to play a game of coming up with book titles and authors (my dad was a publisher)

    Easy Money by Robin Banks
    Long Walk by Miss D Bus

    And just for @TOPPING : Modern Warfare by R Tillery

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    @kjh FPT

    When I were a lad… we used to play a game of coming up with book titles and authors (my dad was a publisher)

    Easy Money by Robin Banks
    Long Walk by Miss D Bus

    And just for @TOPPING : Modern Warfare by R Tillery

    The Haunted House by Hugo First
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,926

    @kjh FPT

    When I were a lad… we used to play a game of coming up with book titles and authors (my dad was a publisher)

    Easy Money by Robin Banks
    Long Walk by Miss D Bus

    And just for @TOPPING : Modern Warfare by R Tillery

    The Haunted House by Hugo First
    With a forward by Paul Tergeist.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    I would applaud him going on col if he had a solution. He doesn't, a fact highlighted to me by SKS fans last week linking to his solution. His plan is to have a plan.
    The plan seems to be "get rich due to the green energy boom". The trouble is governments all over the world are saying the same thing, and we can't all be the winner. It's a good sound bite, but Britain's economic issues are much broader and deeper than can be solved by even winning that race.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    There are rumours that the Russians are sending ten T-14 Armatas (their latest tank) to the front. At least, there is video of what is allegedly them on a train somewhere, going somewhere else.

    So we might see modern Russian tanks against relatively modern western ones.

    That'll be interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    What would you have him say?
    No brainer today

    "Hancock killing Granny's".

    It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.

    Tosser with a capital T
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    What would you have him say?
    No brainer today

    "Hancock killing Granny's".

    It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.

    Tosser with a capital T
    Well, your preferred leader would want a Russian family to be superior to a British family.

    Traitor with a capital T. ;)
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    The Polish economy seems to have done very well. Predicting the future isn't always wise though.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    There are rumours that the Russians are sending ten T-14 Armatas (their latest tank) to the front. At least, there is video of what is allegedly them on a train somewhere, going somewhere else.

    So we might see modern Russian tanks against relatively modern western ones.

    That'll be interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata

    The thing with a nice new tank though is that the last thing you want to do is go in to a tank-on-tank action. British tanks seem slightly at odds to this admittedly.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    Nah, he's only achieved it because he was standing on the shoulders of his giant predecessor. Also its still terrible (but don't blame the predecessor for that). Or something.
    Yep, the view from Capri is Big Dog did the heavy lifting. Played Bad Cop, softened up the EU with his antics, then Sunak's Good Cop saunters in, sweet as pie, offers a cup of tea and a cigarette, gets the confession.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,,, sorry something in my eye, oh yes, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Ridiculous.
    Apparently it is the reason why Suella Braverman hasn't resigned, it was her hard work as AG on the NIP Bill which got this awesome deal.
    Ok, enough, my sides are hurting.
    This is all Sunak.

    Like John Major in 1997 if he loses in 2024 Sunak will be remembered with honour because of Northern Ireland.
    Maybe. But we don't know yet in what form exactly the DUP will reject the deal.

    If that happens we are still into a prolonged stalemate in NI. And if, in fact, the real DUP position is that they have no intention of helping form an NI government in current circumstances then this will soon be forgotten.

    I wonder what Westminster's plan B is for NI politically in that case.

    Perhaps it's time they were all told that an independent NI with UN peacekeepers is the only next option.
    The obvious fallback would be for the Alliance and UUP to take the DUP place in the Stormont Executive by amending the GFA.

    Combined SF, the UUP and Alliance got well over 50% of the Northern Irish vote at the last Stormont and Westminster elections. The UUP can also represent Unionists and Doug Beattie looks certain to back the new Deal even if Donaldson doesn't because Wilson and Paisley bind his hands
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Labour for a Republic:

    The BBC has reportedly delayed a documentary on Jimmy Saville due this year until 2024 because of 'sensitivities'.

    One can't help but wonder what might be sensitive about publishing it this year...





    https://twitter.com/labour4republic/status/1630677034530746369?s=46
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    Well that would quickly resolve the free movement problem and get us back into the EEA
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    What would you have him say?
    No brainer today

    "Hancock killing Granny's".

    It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.

    Tosser with a capital T
    I am going to try to ignore your perpetual, petty sniping at Starmer going forward. He's a long way from perfect but compared to anyone in the Tory leadership, and particularly compared to the fuckwit Johnson (who you were prepared to vote for let us remember), Starmer is just fine.

    So, I'm going to try to ignore you, but it's hard because your focus on undermining Labour instead of attacking the true culprits is really bloody intensely irritating.

    That feels better.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,032
    algarkirk said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sunak deserves a little bounce for his NI efforts. I wouldn't begrudge it him. The big picture hasn't changed - Lab majority coming - but he's looking like a giant compared to his recent predecessors.

    I think a little bounce only (if any). Joe Public has no interest in NI or ongoing banter over Brexit which has happened.

    However, I have a hunch that Sunak's quiet head-down, get-on-with-the-job style will ratchet up admiration gradually. A slow burner.

    The recent edition of of the The Times Red Box Podcast was interesting - the one where they have the monthly voter focus group. This time it was a group of 2019 CP voters who plan to vote Labour next time. A small sample I know but what came through is that their disillusionment goes back to Johnson and Truss and folk do have short memories. And the Labour lead is soft. And they prefer Sunak to Starmer even though that plan to vote Labour.
    It is pretty obvious that Sunak's job is to lose with grace and dignity, such that he may even keep his job as leader, and enable to Tory party to become once again capable of being a One Nation serious government. The sort that doesn't send its citizenship dirty washing to Bangladesh or its refugees to Rwanda. He needs to work harder on that front.

    I have voted Tory in GEs for nearly 50 years. I am not going to this time on simple moral, competence and sanity grounds. The question is whether I (and a few million others) do so delightedly or with some regret that we have to.
    So you punish Sunak despite him being sane, competent and (at least relatively) moral
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    PMQs: SKS draws on the impact of the cost of living...

    "The average family in Britain will be poorer than the average family in Poland. We're going to see a generation of young people learning to say 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' in Polish", says SKS

    What a tosser

    What would you have him say?
    No brainer today

    "Hancock killing Granny's".

    It is a shocking state of affairs, a leader of the supposed Labour Party arrogantly implying the average (pebbledashed house, toolmaker dad & nurse mum) British family should somehow be far superior to a Polish family.

    Tosser with a capital T
    Well, your preferred leader would want a Russian family to be superior to a British family.

    Traitor with a capital T. ;)
    Not so. Jezza wants the many in Britain to be better off by the few paying their fair share. None of this Superior bollocks

    As for Russia he was the first to call out Putin when Centrists were cuddling up, and on day 1 of the war called on an unconditional withdrawal of the invaders.

    SKS is a Sneering Tosser capital S Capital T

    SKSSTWNBPM (Hopefully)!!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Omnium said:

    There are rumours that the Russians are sending ten T-14 Armatas (their latest tank) to the front. At least, there is video of what is allegedly them on a train somewhere, going somewhere else.

    So we might see modern Russian tanks against relatively modern western ones.

    That'll be interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata

    The thing with a nice new tank though is that the last thing you want to do is go in to a tank-on-tank action. British tanks seem slightly at odds to this admittedly.
    There are rumours that Russia used the T-14 a few years back in Syria. And also rumours that they lost one in Syria as well. Then again, Turkey lost several (>6) Leopard 2's in Syria as well, though mostly to Russian anti-tank weapons.
This discussion has been closed.