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The Tories have Ratnered their brand – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,146
    edited February 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Another lab leak update: https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

    Thought I'd liven PB up a bit this afternoon ;)

    Oh no! Even Brexit's better than that. In fact Brexit is good as long as we focus on how best to mitigate the mistake rather than why we made it in the first place. The latter just brings out the same old defence lines from Leavers.

    The Remain campaign was too negative. Mrs May's fabulous compromise was torpedoed by Remainer MPs. Or alternatively Mrs May WAS a Remainer hence couldn't do Brexit properly as witnessed by her shit deal. Then somebody - and it's not always Morris - will track further back and start to mutter about the 'Lisbon Treaty'.

    Etc. Common theme - Brexit is the fault of the people who opposed it. The song never changes, neither tune nor lyrics, and it's not a classic - so best to leave it in the sleeve imo.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    If those people average anything less than 75 they’ve really been having poor diets.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Coffey despite appearance being almost certainly the youngest one in the pic is a startling thought.
    Her seat is rural and costal Suffolk, not commuter belt or the suburbs so not that surprising
    I have a house in her constituency and it isn't filled up with old duffers so I had a look at the demographics and you are right. It is pretty normal except for the 20 - 35 year olds which is low and slightly higher on the 65 - 80 year olds.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    Off for a pub lunch on Dartmoor. Fresh but bright.

    On topic, I think it's the SNP brand we have seen "ratnerised". Tories will come back (says somebody who has been out on the doorstep this week....locals aren't looking too bad round here - we'll worry about the general late next year).

    At some point you’ll have to extend your canvassing beyond just party members…
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    I think you’ll have to explain to Leon what The Book of Common Prayer is.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    I know I am in pretty good fettle, but I am 68 and I look younger than nearly everyone in that photo.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    edited February 2023
    Has the Conservatives "brand" ever been particularly popular? Seems to me it just ebbs and flows in degrees of unpopularity...

    Wasn't half the reason Cameron blew a majority at the 2010 election because when we hit January that year and the prospect of a Tory government becoming a reality came into view people started to run a mile?

    People elect Tory governments in two circumstances.

    1. Labour runs out of money

    2. Labour takes itself off into pure Socialist wilderness.

    But very few people actually enjoy having a Conservative government lol.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    The thing I keep coming back to is the illusion of some unstoppable Conservative election winning machine and this is unusual. It’s really not. The electorate didn’t trust them with a majority in 2010 or 2017 and in 2015 it wasn’t a stable one.

    2019 was an outlier. The blue team has achieved a majority twice in 6 general elections, a stable one only once. They have been stamping on eggshells while behaving like they can walk on water. For all his faults Starmer has productively spent his time facing up to the problems in his party and seeking to fix them. The Tories don’t even think they’ve got a problem.

    This is very important point.

    The Conservative "brand" never really recovered from the 1990s and they've only got four election victories (three of them less than convincing) through all sorts of reboots, recuts and relaunches and running against themselves. With a smattering of a lack of confidence in what they really believe in running throughout.

    It's a very interesting psephological phenomenon.

    There's a lot lack of intellectual thinking about this problem on the backbenches and in the party at large.

    An interesting point. However, it rather presupposes that there is compelling alternative vision on the Left. I don’t see it

    If anything the main threat to soft centre-right liberal democratic capitalism - Conservatism as we know it in the UK - now comes from the hard nationalist right.
    I think Britain is a mature enough country in its democracy and its sense of propriety that hard nationalism doesn't work here. At least in the form it has in the US, France, Hungary etc. We are an inherently moderate country.

    If that is to be a major strand in future, it needs to be adjusted to the UK audience. Boldness in terms of UK patriotism, migration control, economic redistribution... but done in a way that seems respectful, nuanced, and properly prepared.
    I would love to think you are right, but Scotland - which has been gripped for Nationalism for a decade - suggests we are far from immune in the UK. And lots of SNP Nationalism is quite “blood and soil” stuff, see the entire works of @StuartDickson

    Also, migration is only going to get “worse”. Ever harder to control, with a concomitant rise in voter desperation
    We have nationalism too, just it looks like Farage and Johnson more than Le Pen, Trump and Meloni and Orban
    It looks that way, for now

    See the various anti-asylum-seeker-in-hotel protests around the country. I get the sense this is not just Tommy Robinson and his normal crew. It is more grassroots. As it is in other countries where the same is happening - Ireland, for one

    Unless and until western governments get a grip on migration and refugees, I only see this growing. And how do they get a grip?

    Sweden is not a hopeful example

    My bet is that Eastern European countries will continue voting Hard Right to avoid becoming Sweden, and Western European countries will become MORE like Sweden, where the Hard Right now shares power
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    If those people average anything less than 75 they’ve really been having poor diets.
    There are only turnips in Suffolk.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831
    edited February 2023
    'It all depends on the DUP.'

    I'm sorry but is the United Kingdom going to be hidebound to a party that got 21% of the vote in the last Northern Ireland election and 244,128 at the last general election. Now you might say there are other unionists voices too who may actually be more hardline than the DUP on the Protocol. Fine, then why aren't they part of the conversation too?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,146

    kinabalu said:

    Do I understand correctly that Steve Baker is expected to resign?

    On 'resignation watch' is what I heard. Could be just raising hopes. You know how they like to mess with us.
    The text has been set for a week and according to the Telegraph, nobody has bothered to share it with Baker yet.

    As I said above, the whole strategy is very odd. Presumably they just think there’s no way he’ll support it, so what’s the point of engaging with him?

    Or perhaps they’re just hoping to marginalise him.
    I wonder. Baker is quite sensitive so unless they want him gone you'd have thought they'd stroke him a little. He's an interesting politician. I rate his integrity - a rare quality in this Brexit poisoned Tory party - yet at the same time he disturbs me. He seems slightly disconnected from reality. Or to be more PC he seems to have his own reality that's at a slight angle to the one I have.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Completely OT but I hope C4’s g

    'It all depends on the DUP.'

    I'm sorry but is the United Kingdom going to be hidebound to a party that got 21% of the vote in the last Northern Ireland election and 244,128 at the last general election. Now you might say there are other unionists voices too who may actually be more hardline than the DUP on the Protocol. Fine, then why aren't they part of the conversation too?

    Yes we are because…reasons…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    But that proves my point

    Which is more elegant:

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”

    OR

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills; whence cometh my help”

    The second is much more sonorous and fluid. Simply better. The FROM slows everything down and is grammatically unnecessary

    Leon: more literate than Thomas Cranmer since 1589

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    GIN1138 said:

    Has the Conservatives "brand" ever been particularly popular? Seems to me it just ebbs and flows in degrees of unpopularity...

    Wasn't half the reason Cameron blew a majority at the 2010 election because when we hit January that year and the prospect of a Tory government becoming a reality came into view people started to run a mile?

    People elect Tory governments in two circumstances.

    1. Labour runs out of money

    2. Labour takes itself off into pure Socialist wilderness.

    But very few people actually enjoy having a Conservative government lol.

    As a serious point, the ‘shy Tory’ problem for pollsters is likely to return as a significant issue for the next GE.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831
    Scott_xP said:

    WillG said:

    I think Britain is a mature enough country in its democracy and its sense of propriety that hard nationalism doesn't work here. At least in the form it has in the US, France, Hungary etc. We are an inherently moderate country.

    Wishful thinking.

    The Nationalists were never strong enough in any one constituency to win Parliamentary seats, but when offered the opportunity to vote for an explicitly nationalist agenda, 52% of voters signed up...
    So they can't get enough votes in any one constituency but can get 52% nationwide. Logic fail there I think. The proof of the pudding of course is in the eating. Has the UK become drunk on nationalism since leaving the EU? Not that I can see.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    You reckon?

    It's not gallant, I admit, but who in that photo is clearly under 54?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    But that proves my point

    Which is more elegant:

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”

    OR

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills; whence cometh my help”

    The second is much more sonorous and fluid. Simply better. The FROM slows everything down and is grammatically unnecessary

    Leon: more literate than Thomas Cranmer since 1589

    You have been taking lessons on proofs from hyufd again haven't you?
  • NEW THREAD

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    I wonder how accurate that sampling is. Giving out the party list would be a gross breach of GDPR.

    Edit: An earlier tweet says "This was an online survey of all members who’d supplied the party with e-mail addresses (the large majority but not all) and the response rate was 21%. Newer members were less likely to respond, as presumably were the less active."

    And I see he is an academic chap so this is an acadsemic study, fair enough.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    But that proves my point

    Which is more elegant:

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”

    OR

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills; whence cometh my help”

    The second is much more sonorous and fluid. Simply better. The FROM slows everything down and is grammatically unnecessary

    Leon: more literate than Thomas Cranmer since 1589

    “The Ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom; only there can it be unmade. It must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came.”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,146
    HYUFD said:

    Do I understand correctly that Steve Baker is expected to resign?

    It does look like about 100-150 Conservative MPs, the bulk of them ERG, could vote against any deal which extends ECJ jurisdiction to Great Britain and Steve Baker would leave the Government, maybe Braverman and Raab too
    He should just sign it. No need to trouble the Commons tellers.

    In fact I hold the rather fruity view that the Brexit Deal itself should not have required a Commons vote. The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. That and only that is what they voted for. Not soft Brexit or hard Brexit or patriotic Brexit or vassal Brexit or anything Brexit. Just Brexit. In this sense 'Brexit means Brexit' was not vacuous it was - literally - the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

    The UK Government then use their judgment and best efforts to secure the best possible terms for executing that instruction. They're a government after all. The executive. It's their job.

    So much better than all the nonsense we got.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    DougSeal said:

    Completely OT but I hope C4’s g

    'It all depends on the DUP.'

    I'm sorry but is the United Kingdom going to be hidebound to a party that got 21% of the vote in the last Northern Ireland election and 244,128 at the last general election. Now you might say there are other unionists voices too who may actually be more hardline than the DUP on the Protocol. Fine, then why aren't they part of the conversation too?

    Yes we are because…reasons…
    We are, because everyone involved (Ireland, north, south, U.K. gov, Irish gov) signed up to the Good Friday deal.

    This explicitly and carefully gave a veto to the largest part on each side of The Divide in Northern Ireland.

    This apparently was AOK when SF wanted to halt the peace process because some officious police officer was investigating murders too enthusiastically or whatever.

    The Unionist leaders were supposed, it seems , to deliver their parties consent to whatever SF needed. And get not much for it.

    Now the DUP have wised up and are playing the same game as SF - Give us what we want, fuck over the others and if you don’t, there may be accidents.

    Lord Trimble warned about this a decade back. He was told to shut up for his trouble.

    1) advertise for face-eating leopards.
    2) hire some face-eating leopards.
    3) reward the most enthusiastically face-eating leopards.
    4) congratulate them on their face eating
    5) give the leopards who don’t eat faces nothing.
    6) wonder why you are up to your nuts in face-eating leopards.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    But that proves my point

    Which is more elegant:

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”

    OR

    “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills; whence cometh my help”

    The second is much more sonorous and fluid. Simply better. The FROM slows everything down and is grammatically unnecessary

    Leon: more literate than Thomas Cranmer since 1589

    The Psalms in the BCP are Miles Coverdale's translation, not Cranmer.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Weird thing is round my way there are loads of young Tory activists and councillors to be found, they actually outdo the local LDs on the score, and has caused ructions with some of the older, less fiery Tories.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited February 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    While it’s

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider

    SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT

    Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror

    Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
    That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won

    It is now done

    And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a
    You won the referendum and now you’ve fucked off forcing us (and the national press) to discuss how to clear up the mess that you and your fellow travellers disastrous win created. Is it just PB who should stop discussing the fiasco resulting from your victory or the entire U.K. media, which largely leads on it today? Would you like the national conversation to shift from the Brexit created mess that is the NI Protocol and talk about more pressing issues like What 3 Words, Chat GPT and fucking aliens? You know, the ones that interest you? I’m sure you’re a hoot at parties.

    Like Johnson, your skill at a pithy turn of phrase disguises that your intellectual depth is that of of a paddling pool, your ego is the size of a mountain and you’ve not two morals to rub together.
    Heh
    Why the 'heh'? Doug does seem to have hit the nail on the head.
    Because his laboured, angry and deliciously splenetic reaction was exactly what I wanted, to liven up the day. As would be fucking obvious, if you weren’t so dim

    I mean “you’ve not got two morals to rub together” must be one of the most cringeworthy insults ever hurled on PB, and I bet he spent about ten minutes thinking it up
    Perhaps I should simply have gone to the sub-Wodehouse bullshit generator somewhere on the web from whence you pulled the utterly flat “… long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants…”.
    It’s “whence”, not “from whence”. You don’t need the “from”, that’s the point. You’re welcome

    "I WILL lift up mine eyes unto the hills: from whence cometh my help.
    My help cometh even from the Lord: who hath made heaven and earth."

    The Book of Common Prayer 1662, using a translation of 1535.
    Another of those bullshit 'rules' that literary or grammatical snobs insist upon then.

    And no it doesn't prove Leon's point even if it was felt one use was more elegant than the other, since the put down was obviously about incorrect useage.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    HYUFD said:

    The only “solution” I can th

    HYUFD said:

    Do I understand correctly that Steve Baker is expected to resign?

    It does look like about 100-150 Conservative MPs, the bulk of them ERG, could vote against any deal which extends ECJ jurisdiction to Great Britain and Steve Baker would leave the Government, maybe Braverman and Raab too
    Big prediction.
    That would end the Rishi premiership.
    It wouldn't provided 200 Tory MPs still voted for the deal and backed Rishi.

    For Starmer has said Labour will vote with the Government to pass the NI deal and 200 Tory MPs behind him is sufficient for Rishi to defeat the likely VONC that would follow in his leadership
    He should make a vote for his deal a vote of confidence.
    "If you don't support the government you lose the whip and any chance of standing as a Tory MP at the next election."
    Would that work?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Do I understand correctly that Steve Baker is expected to resign?

    one bonus at least then
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    The influx of labour supporters, many looking for new ways to make money and embraced by Sturgeon given the years experience they had diddling the public.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    If those people average anything less than 75 they’ve really been having poor diets.
    Turnips are one hell of a drug.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:


    Everything you need to know about why the Tory party is dying in a single photo.

    Average age of voters in Coffey's seat is 54, so not far off the average in that photo actually
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Suffolk Coastal
    If those people average anything less than 75 they’ve really been having poor diets.
    Turnips are one hell of a drug.
    Oh the humanity... an evil combo of Turnip gas and elderly sphincters... no wonder they´ve all got their coats on.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    IanB2 said:

    Off for a pub lunch on Dartmoor. Fresh but bright.

    On topic, I think it's the SNP brand we have seen "ratnerised". Tories will come back (says somebody who has been out on the doorstep this week....locals aren't looking too bad round here - we'll worry about the general late next year).

    At some point you’ll have to extend your canvassing beyond just party members…
    Oh how very droll.

    Prat.
This discussion has been closed.