Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Anyone got some good data on what is happening with pay in Europe? Are the German nurses getting inflation+ ?
The items I could find were pre the big inflation spike.
Perhaps more to the point: Is there a shortage of nurses in Germany?
Germany's healthcare system is in some disarray, albeit probably not as bad as the NHS. This seems to be due to a dysfunctional insurance arrangement.
So we didn’t set up their healthcare system? After the war? Did we leave it to the Americans? They seem to be the experts in dysfunctional insurance based healthcare systems!
There are better managed insurance based healthcare systems than Germany. (and indeed USA, which hardly counts as a "system")
My takeaway is not to try to change your system to something else. Try to make what you have work.
The forgotten “other option” for the NHS was real “National Insurance” and a mix of state run and private provision.
AIUI Aneurin Bevan’s experience was of the miners system operated over much of South Wales
Enjoying watching @HumzaYousaf on #BBCLauraK setting out the argument that the route to a second referendum is to win the argument and show sustained polling support for independence. Exactly what I've been saying for years.
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Anyone got some good data on what is happening with pay in Europe? Are the German nurses getting inflation+ ?
The items I could find were pre the big inflation spike.
Perhaps more to the point: Is there a shortage of nurses in Germany?
Germany's healthcare system is in some disarray, albeit probably not as bad as the NHS. This seems to be due to a dysfunctional insurance arrangement.
So we didn’t set up their healthcare system? After the war? Did we leave it to the Americans? They seem to be the experts in dysfunctional insurance based healthcare systems!
There are better managed insurance based healthcare systems than Germany. (and indeed USA, which hardly counts as a "system")
My takeaway is not to try to change your system to something else. Try to make what you have work.
The forgotten “other option” for the NHS was real “National Insurance” and a mix of state run and private provision.
AIUI Aneurin Bevan’s experience was of the miners system operated over much of South Wales
Highlands and Islands Medical Service was another model AIUI, albeit on the capped/means tested fee model.
Note to those watching @bbclaurak Humza’s #HateCrimeBill is still not in force more than 18 months after it was passed & significant aspects of it would not survive a #HumanRights challenge. Facts matter #SNPLeadershipElection
I find the LD figures a bit depressing. Traditionally people did not seem to view them unfavourable and were quite favourable to them, even if they did not intend to vote for them. In fact it was quite rare (and notable) to find people who disliked them so those figures are not good.
The Conservative figure for the favourable rating of 25% does not surprise me, but one wonders what they have to do to lose that 25%. Literally eat babies?
The coalition years have not been forgotten. As one who really wants to vote LibDem, I wish they’d been tougher on the Conservatives. Clegg has a lot to answer for!
Enjoying watching @HumzaYousaf on #BBCLauraK setting out the argument that the route to a second referendum is to win the argument and show sustained polling support for independence. Exactly what I've been saying for years.
If we are to believe Malcolm, then the SNP are in almost as much trouble as the Tories South of the border. However, the polling results don’t seem to suggest that.
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
This story could derail the #SNPLeadershipElection. Douglas resigned because he wasn’t given access to the information to do his job as Treasurer. Those who know the whereabouts of the ring fenced funds should speak up now to avoid further damage to the party https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
Someone complains about lists of things to ban, makes a list of things to ban.
FPT - the point of the NI protocol deal isn't just to sort out intra UK trade & relations and restore power sharing in the province, important though both those things are, it's also to normalise relations with the EU and the USA as well.
From that, lots of things follow - including more help to sort out small boats, and lifting the threat of a trade dispute, which should help investment and the economy.
This is a big barnacle off Sunak's boat.
This is spot on:
Indeed, the last 12 months has been - in an a low key way - very good for EU-UK relations.
Firstly, the UK's stalwart support for Ukraine has not gone unnoticed across the continent. Our ready willingness to share intelligence, and to be the first to commit to weapons has been enormously appreciated, especially from those who wished to act but who were constrained by history.
Secondly, there's been an awful lot of positive behind the scenes energy stuff. In particular, incoming LNG cargoes have often been diverted in a surprisingly selfless way to try and ensure supplies remained ample across Europe. Indeed: I'd say there's probably been better coordination than when we were in the EU - and all thanks to the fact that Putin forced the EU, the UK and Norway to work together.
Thirdly, Sunak is a *much* less divisive character across Europe. He doesn't raise hackles. While a Leaver, he's not spent his time demonising the EU. And that's meant that when he's gone in asking for things, people genuinely believe he's sincere in looking for a deal.
My suspicion is that Sunak will be quite well regarded by history, but not by voters.
Yes, us Sunak fans get regularly lampooned on here for praising him, but he's good. Best PM since Cameron.
One day many more will see this.
Best PM since Cameron. You mean better than Truss, Johnson and May? 🤯
Most voters, even those fed up with the Conservatives, would accept that. Part of the problem the Conservatives have is that their current voters don't necessarily agree.
This is why Sunak is a bigger danger to Starmer than Bozo. Sunak is less divisive and there will be less anti him come the GE .
I expect him to poll better than the party which should help add a few percent to the results . I still expect Labour to win the GE but I don’t see a big majority .
I find the LD figures a bit depressing. Traditionally people did not seem to view them unfavourable and were quite favourable to them, even if they did not intend to vote for them. In fact it was quite rare (and notable) to find people who disliked them so those figures are not good.
The Conservative figure for the favourable rating of 25% does not surprise me, but one wonders what they have to do to lose that 25%. Literally eat babies?
The coalition years have not been forgotten. As one who really wants to vote LibDem, I wish they’d been tougher on the Conservatives. Clegg has a lot to answer for!
yep I was waiting for that post OKC. I imagine there are a lot of people who were previously indifferent and may be would never vote for them but who now will never forgive them.
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
Great that you've recanted from your previous spasms of Ban the Nits.
Enjoying watching @HumzaYousaf on #BBCLauraK setting out the argument that the route to a second referendum is to win the argument and show sustained polling support for independence. Exactly what I've been saying for years.
It will be revealing to see what the members make of the argument
That great labour unionist Hothersall, great bedmates.
Always a tricky job trying to ride two horses - the selectorate and the electorate…..
I remember thinking when that poll came out showing Labour members preferred Starmer - they are interested in power again….and when the Tories chose Truss…..the reverse….
I find the LD figures a bit depressing. Traditionally people did not seem to view them unfavourable and were quite favourable to them, even if they did not intend to vote for them. In fact it was quite rare (and notable) to find people who disliked them so those figures are not good.
The Conservative figure for the favourable rating of 25% does not surprise me, but one wonders what they have to do to lose that 25%. Literally eat babies?
The coalition years have not been forgotten. As one who really wants to vote LibDem, I wish they’d been tougher on the Conservatives. Clegg has a lot to answer for!
yep I was waiting for that post OKC. I imagine there are a lot of people who were previously indifferent and may be would never vote for them but who now will never forgive them.
They lost a generation of students. And that covers an age range from 17 to 25.
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
Someone complains about lists of things to ban, makes a list of things to ban.
Physician, heal thyself.
This comment has destroyed itself due to a self-referential paradox.
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
I find the LD figures a bit depressing. Traditionally people did not seem to view them unfavourable and were quite favourable to them, even if they did not intend to vote for them. In fact it was quite rare (and notable) to find people who disliked them so those figures are not good.
The Conservative figure for the favourable rating of 25% does not surprise me, but one wonders what they have to do to lose that 25%. Literally eat babies?
The coalition years have not been forgotten. As one who really wants to vote LibDem, I wish they’d been tougher on the Conservatives. Clegg has a lot to answer for!
yep I was waiting for that post OKC. I imagine there are a lot of people who were previously indifferent and may be would never vote for them but who now will never forgive them.
They lost a generation of students. And that covers an age range from 17 to 25.
Not just that but anyone who has been a student since (unless qualifying for Scottish exemption as resident there). Every single time they see the SLC deduction on their bills.
Must have hit [edit] the LDs in the goolies in the university towns above all.
This story could derail the #SNPLeadershipElection. Douglas resigned because he wasn’t given access to the information to do his job as Treasurer. Those who know the whereabouts of the ring fenced funds should speak up now to avoid further damage to the party https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
You have to wonder why it has taken more than 18 months to get this far on who pocketed the cash.
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
Great that you've recanted from your previous spasms of Ban the Nits.
@AshReganSNP confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
Enjoying watching @HumzaYousaf on #BBCLauraK setting out the argument that the route to a second referendum is to win the argument and show sustained polling support for independence. Exactly what I've been saying for years.
It will be revealing to see what the members make of the argument
The attitude of the members seems a real unknown in this contest. Personally, I can see them caring less about Forbes' views than the population at large and SNP supporters (the bulk of which I would suggest are more progressive due to Sturgeon's courting of those votes). In a ranking of who Forbes may have damaged herself with, I would rank: 1. SNP voters 2. The Electorate 3. SNP members
My feeling, and it is just a feeling, is that the members will go for who they best think will provide the best path to independence. I know some pretty progressive SNP members, who will be massively turned off by Kate Forbes but even for them there must be a point where they would vote for a candidate antithetical to their values if they thought it would bring about independence. Throw in the fact that Regan supporters are likely to transfer largely into Forbes votes I think she has a real chance. In my view, it's all to play for. If Kate Forbes can pivot to emphasise the compassionate side of her faith (which does exist) then she could start to gain votes.
If I was on her campaign, that would be my strategy going forward. Respond to any questions about gay rights as already answered and refuse to repeat those answers while simultaneously focussing on bread and butter cost of living, sound finances and how to move independence forward.
However, at the end of the day this is all a bit speculative and, without a good poll of members, essentially guess work.
Quite interested by the idea that we will end up with 4 parties of similar size in Scotland, with the Greens picking up lots of former SNP voters.
Was speaking with some SNP councillors yesterday and they brought up that graphic that shows Tory members and MPs relative to the average Tory voter, and they suggested the SNP were the same but inverted.
This story could derail the #SNPLeadershipElection. Douglas resigned because he wasn’t given access to the information to do his job as Treasurer. Those who know the whereabouts of the ring fenced funds should speak up now to avoid further damage to the party https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
You have to wonder why it has taken more than 18 months to get this far on who pocketed the cash.
Can’t have anything to do with who the CEO is married to, can it?
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
According to Electoral Calculus - presumably on the current boundaries - Southport is a seat in Merseyside pretty close to the boundary between a minority and majority Labour government.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
Quite interested by the idea that we will end up with 4 parties of similar size in Scotland, with the Greens picking up lots of former SNP voters.
Was speaking with some SNP councillors yesterday and they brought up that graphic that shows Tory members and MPs relative to the average Tory voter, and they suggested the SNP were the same but inverted.
This is more plausible than an equivalent situation down south given the electoral system here.
The thing I keep coming back to is the illusion of some unstoppable Conservative election winning machine and this is unusual. It’s really not. The electorate didn’t trust them with a majority in 2010 or 2017 and in 2015 it wasn’t a stable one.
2019 was an outlier. The blue team has achieved a majority twice in 6 general elections, a stable one only once. They have been stamping on eggshells while behaving like they can walk on water. For all his faults Starmer has productively spent his time facing up to the problems in his party and seeking to fix them. The Tories don’t even think they’ve got a problem.
@AshReganSNP confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
If you've been wondering why Ash Regan hasn't been giving many interviews during her SNP leadership campaign, this morning's Sunday Show interview, in which she appeared to cite the American Declaration of Independence as a blueprint for Scottish independence, may be instructive.
(I've posted it on the right one this time, but truthfully it makes sense on the last thread too.)
I appreciate the header is commentbait, but I'll bite. It seems bizarrely tin-eared how Brexit has arisen as the sole or even primary cause of poor Government polling, when we're facing a huge cost of living crisis that is making people poor, cold, and sometimes even hungry. I appreciate that most PBers aren't feeling it too keenly, but you'd think there might be a smidgen of emotional intelligence on display. You may be obsessed with Brexit - others are trying to work out how to heat their homes.
Cost of living was highlighted as the number 1 concern in that Scottish poll the other day, and it's something that we see none of the main parties addressing - it's not so much the elephant in the room, it's the elephant standing on our feet. Sunak's pathetic Government is still wedded to the worst self-harming green policies, even when they have been utterly found out - seemingly governing on behalf of Joe Biden these days if Robert Buckland is any indication. The Autumn statement has harmed North Sea Oil production and the energy secretary prefers selfies with Bill Gates to actually increasing the energy supply.
All Starmer promises is more of the same, with a 'green industrial revolution', the silly prick. That leaves a vast open goal there for either Reform/Farage, or the Tory party to come to its senses and dump the dismal decline manager. Virtually on day one, VAT on domestic fuel could be suspended, assuring the public that the Government actually is on their side - a just, fair policy and a Brexit benefit to boot. Then it would actually be game on for GE2024.
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
According to Electoral Calculus - presumably on the current boundaries - Southport is a seat in Merseyside pretty close to the boundary between a minority and majority Labour government.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
A much better idea and far enough away from the toxicity of Liverpool Labour. An old Lib Dem seat too but LDs now in a clear third place, so ideal for an informal pact.
@AshReganSNP confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
The SNP were in a complete mess for ages. It's just that the power of Sturgeon's personality (with a huge side-salad of lies) meant that the questions that needed to be asked weren't being.
For the next few decades, Scotland will end up with devo-max to the max, but no independence.
@AshReganSNP confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
According to Electoral Calculus - presumably on the current boundaries - Southport is a seat in Merseyside pretty close to the boundary between a minority and majority Labour government.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
A pragmatic compromise eliminating the worst defects of the operation of the protocol is available. Sources in Brussels say a deal is essentially done. Cabinet ministers were led to expect that they would get sight of a draft agreement last week, only then to be disappointed.
As so often with the sorry saga of Brexit, the obstacle to an agreement is not the EU, but closer to home. Many are sceptical that the DUP are keen on resuming power-sharing at Stormont, because it would mean serving in a government with a first minister from Sinn Fein. As for the Brexiters in the Tory party, the more practical of them are making positive noises, but the ultras are already frothing that Mr Sunak is going to “sell out” the “true principles” of Brexit.
If anyone has betrayed the national interest, it is these Brextremists. Those trying to sabotage an agreement are the very same people who told us that leaving the EU would be a piece of cake and that Britain would hold all the cards in withdrawal negotiations, the very same people who promised that we would live happily ever after in a land of milk and honey while exulting over the rock-hard Brexit produced by Mr Johnson.
You might be tempted to feel a twinge of sympathy for the prime minister. Don’t. These dilemmas are consequences of the Brexit that he backed. And they are a legacy of Mr Johnson, who got to Number 10 in the first place with the endorsement of Mr Sunak. You reap what you sow.
It is incredible how Remainers want to make everything about Brexit. The Tories romped home on a Brexit mandate in the last election. Their support cratered very obviously because of two things: (1) Boris breaking rules the rest of the country suffered under and (2) the disastrous Truss deficit budget. In addition, any party in power for 13 years is going to struggle. It is Tories dragging down the Brexit brand, not vice versa. The public reaction to migrant boats shows migration is still a latent inflammatory issue. I suspect it will be what ultimately undoes Starmer.
Suck it up Buttercup... You won, get over it.
Unless Leavers (who are now almost entirely Tories) stop attacking the straw man of "Remainers" for the inevitable failures of Brexit, and start trying to create a new national consensus they will serve no future purpose except to be a terrible warning of the dangers of hubris and about as relevant to the future of this country as gas lighting and the poor house.
Leavers have still not been able to create a national consensus, mostly because there is still no Leave consensus on what Brexit should be. Fantasies about "Singapore-on-Thames" run pretty hollow in Stoke-on-Trent. The hard yards on creating a viable, unifying national vision are not going to be put in by Rees Mogg´s butler either.
The ERG and ancillary nutters still refuse any compromises with anything EU (like the NI protocol), even though that is self-evidently the right way forward, at least in the short-medium term and is becoming increasingly critical if we are going to save significant parts of of our economy from the wreck. It has been the abject failure of the nutters to offer any compromises that has shown the voters that a large number of Brexiters are fanatics pure and simple who have been prepared to destroy orderly government and large chunks of our constitution for their own narrow political ends. The failure to be straight about the economic costs and the chicanery about getting legislation through Parliament are also profoundly corrosive of public trust. Such obvious cheating offends the British sense of fair play very deeply.
So, yeah, the Tories have Ratnered their brand. Thing is, that even if Sunak can do a few moderate and stabilizing things in the remainder of his time in office, all we will remember of the Tories is the absolute fiasco of the past three years. Overweening arrogance, invincible ignorance and abject incompetence, the result of Brexit fanatics refusing to engage with the British spirit of compromise and instead hectoring us about it being "for our own good".
This country will chuck the Turnip Taliban and their BDSM Brexit onto the scrapheap of history at the first chance its gets. Whether the Tories ever recover is an open question. No one can now believe that Conservatives are moderates who defend us against extremists, when every day for the last few years extremist and divisive drivel has been their stock-in-trade.
I know it got a huge number of likes and I don't disagree with the majority of what you wrote, but I will say:
1. As a Leaver, I'm not a Conservative. I'm a Lib Dem. Probably always have been. 2. Whilst there I completely agree with your comments about the Conservatives completely messing up Brexit, there were obviously better ways to deal with Brexit. The most obvious being either EEA or EFTA+, but I suppose people completely read the vote wrong.
Rather than stepping back and going, "52:48 - that's pretty close. Taking it in the round, we clearly need to leave the EU but we don't need to leave everything within the EU. Hey look, ready made solutions can be found in the EEA or perhaps negotiated in an EFTA+ arrangement.", the Conservatives went (and this was the 'Remainer' Theresa May), "Nukes on standby, target Paris and Berlin."
3. I suppose my final point to make is that things might not have been any better with a Remain vote. Either we'd have ended up with a constant UKIP (like the SNP) vote doing very very well in an alt 2020 election (or 2021) or we'd end up with running sores as the EU took the Remain vote to drive harder and faster integration across Europe and suddenly we'd end up with Remainers regret just as much as we now have Leavers regret.
Merely having the vote was going to cause huge problems, whatever the outcome. Step forward one David Cameron for that great idea.
I don't really get the use of 'Ratnered' to describe what the Tories' have done to their brand. Ratner's mistake was not to sell crappy silver-plated candlesticks, it was to give a public speech chuckling about how crap his crappy silver-plated candlesticks were. So far as I can see, the only Tories going public with statements about how crap the Tories are have been the anonymous Sunakite backstabbers during the Truss era, and I can't think that's what the users of 'Ratnered' have in mind.
(I've posted it on the right one this time, but truthfully it makes sense on the last thread too.)
I appreciate the header is commentbait, but I'll bite. It seems bizarrely tin-eared how Brexit has arisen as the sole or even primary cause of poor Government polling, when we're facing a huge cost of living crisis that is making people poor, cold, and sometimes even hungry. I appreciate that most PBers aren't feeling it too keenly, but you'd think there might be a smidgen of emotional intelligence on display. You may be obsessed with Brexit - others are trying to work out how to heat their homes.
Cost of living was highlighted as the number 1 concern in that Scottish poll the other day, and it's something that we see none of the main parties addressing - it's not so much the elephant in the room, it's the elephant standing on our feet. Sunak's pathetic Government is still wedded to the worst self-harming green policies, even when they have been utterly found out - seemingly governing on behalf of Joe Biden these days if Robert Buckland is any indication. The Autumn statement has harmed North Sea Oil production and the energy secretary prefers selfies with Bill Gates to actually increasing the energy supply.
All Starmer promises is more of the same, with a 'green industrial revolution', the silly prick. That leaves a vast open goal there for either Reform/Farage, or the Tory party to come to its senses and dump the dismal decline manager. Virtually on day one, VAT on domestic fuel could be suspended, assuring the public that the Government actually is on their side - a just, fair policy and a Brexit benefit to boot. Then it would actually be game on for GE2024.
You are swimming against the overwhelming tide of public opinion
This story could derail the #SNPLeadershipElection. Douglas resigned because he wasn’t given access to the information to do his job as Treasurer. Those who know the whereabouts of the ring fenced funds should speak up now to avoid further damage to the party https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
You have to wonder why it has taken more than 18 months to get this far on who pocketed the cash.
Can’t have anything to do with who the CEO is married to, can it?
(I've posted it on the right one this time, but truthfully it makes sense on the last thread too.)
I appreciate the header is commentbait, but I'll bite. It seems bizarrely tin-eared how Brexit has arisen as the sole or even primary cause of poor Government polling, when we're facing a huge cost of living crisis that is making people poor, cold, and sometimes even hungry. I appreciate that most PBers aren't feeling it too keenly, but you'd think there might be a smidgen of emotional intelligence on display. You may be obsessed with Brexit - others are trying to work out how to heat their homes.
Cost of living was highlighted as the number 1 concern in that Scottish poll the other day, and it's something that we see none of the main parties addressing - it's not so much the elephant in the room, it's the elephant standing on our feet. Sunak's pathetic Government is still wedded to the worst self-harming green policies, even when they have been utterly found out - seemingly governing on behalf of Joe Biden these days if Robert Buckland is any indication. The Autumn statement has harmed North Sea Oil production and the energy secretary prefers selfies with Bill Gates to actually increasing the energy supply.
All Starmer promises is more of the same, with a 'green industrial revolution', the silly prick. That leaves a vast open goal there for either Reform/Farage, or the Tory party to come to its senses and dump the dismal decline manager. Virtually on day one, VAT on domestic fuel could be suspended, assuring the public that the Government actually is on their side - a just, fair policy and a Brexit benefit to boot. Then it would actually be game on for GE2024.
You are swimming against the overwhelming tide of public opinion
No, I am swimming against the overwhelming tide of flabby-bottomed feartie PB opinion. Believe me, there's a vast difference.
If you've been wondering why Ash Regan hasn't been giving many interviews during her SNP leadership campaign, this morning's Sunday Show interview, in which she appeared to cite the American Declaration of Independence as a blueprint for Scottish independence, may be instructive.
Usual BBC disaster, don't let her answer and line keeps dropping due to their shit gear , though only seems to happen to independence topics , their interviewers are blatantly biased and useless. Mediocre does not begin to describe BBC Scotland.
All three candidates for FM have now said they will either delay or revise Deposit Return Scheme. Surely now is the time for @NicolaSturgeon to press pause on this farcical chaos rather than wait until end of March for new FM to do the same thing.
It is incredible how Remainers want to make everything about Brexit. The Tories romped home on a Brexit mandate in the last election. Their support cratered very obviously because of two things: (1) Boris breaking rules the rest of the country suffered under and (2) the disastrous Truss deficit budget. In addition, any party in power for 13 years is going to struggle. It is Tories dragging down the Brexit brand, not vice versa. The public reaction to migrant boats shows migration is still a latent inflammatory issue. I suspect it will be what ultimately undoes Starmer.
Suck it up Buttercup... You won, get over it.
Unless Leavers (who are now almost entirely Tories) stop attacking the straw man of "Remainers" for the inevitable failures of Brexit, and start trying to create a new national consensus they will serve no future purpose except to be a terrible warning of the dangers of hubris and about as relevant to the future of this country as gas lighting and the poor house.
Leavers have still not been able to create a national consensus, mostly because there is still no Leave consensus on what Brexit should be. Fantasies about "Singapore-on-Thames" run pretty hollow in Stoke-on-Trent. The hard yards on creating a viable, unifying national vision are not going to be put in by Rees Mogg´s butler either.
The ERG and ancillary nutters still refuse any compromises with anything EU (like the NI protocol), even though that is self-evidently the right way forward, at least in the short-medium term and is becoming increasingly critical if we are going to save significant parts of of our economy from the wreck. It has been the abject failure of the nutters to offer any compromises that has shown the voters that a large number of Brexiters are fanatics pure and simple who have been prepared to destroy orderly government and large chunks of our constitution for their own narrow political ends. The failure to be straight about the economic costs and the chicanery about getting legislation through Parliament are also profoundly corrosive of public trust. Such obvious cheating offends the British sense of fair play very deeply.
So, yeah, the Tories have Ratnered their brand. Thing is, that even if Sunak can do a few moderate and stabilizing things in the remainder of his time in office, all we will remember of the Tories is the absolute fiasco of the past three years. Overweening arrogance, invincible ignorance and abject incompetence, the result of Brexit fanatics refusing to engage with the British spirit of compromise and instead hectoring us about it being "for our own good".
This country will chuck the Turnip Taliban and their BDSM Brexit onto the scrapheap of history at the first chance its gets. Whether the Tories ever recover is an open question. No one can now believe that Conservatives are moderates who defend us against extremists, when every day for the last few years extremist and divisive drivel has been their stock-in-trade.
I know it got a huge number of likes and I don't disagree with the majority of what you wrote, but I will say:
1. As a Leaver, I'm not a Conservative. I'm a Lib Dem. Probably always have been. 2. Whilst there I completely agree with your comments about the Conservatives completely messing up Brexit, there were obviously better ways to deal with Brexit. The most obvious being either EEA or EFTA+, but I suppose people completely read the vote wrong.
Rather than stepping back and going, "52:48 - that's pretty close. Taking it in the round, we clearly need to leave the EU but we don't need to leave everything within the EU. Hey look, ready made solutions can be found in the EEA or perhaps negotiated in an EFTA+ arrangement.", the Conservatives went (and this was the 'Remainer' Theresa May), "Nukes on standby, target Paris and Berlin."
3. I suppose my final point to make is that things might not have been any better with a Remain vote. Either we'd have ended up with a constant UKIP (like the SNP) vote doing very very well in an alt 2020 election (or 2021) or we'd end up with running sores as the EU took the Remain vote to drive harder and faster integration across Europe and suddenly we'd end up with Remainers regret just as much as we now have Leavers regret.
Merely having the vote was going to cause huge problems, whatever the outcome. Step forward one David Cameron for that great idea.
Didn't see @Cicero post, so thanks for giving me a chance to go and find it and adding to the likes to take it up to an impressive 19. Appreciated.
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
According to Electoral Calculus - presumably on the current boundaries - Southport is a seat in Merseyside pretty close to the boundary between a minority and majority Labour government.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
Parachuting non-local candidates into marginals and annoying the membership what could go wrong?
I wouldn't force her onto a local party, but as someone who has lived in several different places over my life, I don't share the same obsession with local candidates that some people have.
@AshReganSNP confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
Someone I bumped into who worked with her described her as 'hard of thinking'.
Probably (harshly) true, but much more heinous for a pol is that she seems incapable of thinking on her feet. Hustings/debates will be interesting.
If true it does not say much about Sturgeon's intelligence in that she put her in Government, what am I saying she has more dummies in their than at a ventriliquist's convention. However she managed to be the only one that called out the wicked witch ever.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
(I've posted it on the right one this time, but truthfully it makes sense on the last thread too.)
I appreciate the header is commentbait, but I'll bite. It seems bizarrely tin-eared how Brexit has arisen as the sole or even primary cause of poor Government polling, when we're facing a huge cost of living crisis that is making people poor, cold, and sometimes even hungry. I appreciate that most PBers aren't feeling it too keenly, but you'd think there might be a smidgen of emotional intelligence on display. You may be obsessed with Brexit - others are trying to work out how to heat their homes.
Cost of living was highlighted as the number 1 concern in that Scottish poll the other day, and it's something that we see none of the main parties addressing - it's not so much the elephant in the room, it's the elephant standing on our feet. Sunak's pathetic Government is still wedded to the worst self-harming green policies, even when they have been utterly found out - seemingly governing on behalf of Joe Biden these days if Robert Buckland is any indication. The Autumn statement has harmed North Sea Oil production and the energy secretary prefers selfies with Bill Gates to actually increasing the energy supply.
All Starmer promises is more of the same, with a 'green industrial revolution', the silly prick. That leaves a vast open goal there for either Reform/Farage, or the Tory party to come to its senses and dump the dismal decline manager. Virtually on day one, VAT on domestic fuel could be suspended, assuring the public that the Government actually is on their side - a just, fair policy and a Brexit benefit to boot. Then it would actually be game on for GE2024.
You are swimming against the overwhelming tide of public opinion
No, I am swimming against the overwhelming tide of flabby-bottomed feartie PB opinion. Believe me, there's a vast difference.
In your mindset but not in the publics, hence how toxic Johnson and Truss are viewed by the vast majority of the electorate
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
I think he's being pessimistic, I think going overtly racist can be a lucrative path for some people.
Fair play to the story for actually detailing what he said, and putting it in its context (which doesn't help him still) for once.
Many US newspapers including the Washington Post have dropped the long-running Dilbert cartoon strip after its creator made racist comments.
In a video on YouTube, Scott Adams, who is white, said black Americans were part of a "hate group" and that white people should "get the hell away" from them.
Mr Adams, 65, later acknowledged that his career was destroyed.
He said most of his income would be gone by next week.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
Seems pretty plausible as a scenario. It's easy to get support for being stricter on elections, its one reason they propose disproportionate measures like, but people rarely think it will hit them.
"Italy shipwreck: Dozens of migrants killed off Calabria coast
More than 40 migrants, including a baby, have died and dozens more have survived after their overloaded boat sank in rough seas off southern Italy.
The vessel reportedly broke apart while trying to land with more than 100 people aboard near the coastal town of Crotone in the Calabria region.
Many bodies have been recovered from the beach at a nearby seaside resort. "
The stain on humanity Braverman will probably be breaking out the bubbly . Shes more than likely looking forward to seeing such scenes off the Kent coast to prove how dangerous those crossings are . She’s off course still counting the days when she can ship even genuine asylum seekers off to Rwanda and will rejoice in that human misery .
I don't really get the use of 'Ratnered' to describe what the Tories' have done to their brand. Ratner's mistake was not to sell crappy silver-plated candlesticks, it was to give a public speech chuckling about how crap his crappy silver-plated candlesticks were. So far as I can see, the only Tories going public with statements about how crap the Tories are have been the anonymous Sunakite backstabbers during the Truss era, and I can't think that's what the users of 'Ratnered' have in mind.
Ratner sold crap as gold.
The Tories sold Brexit as Nirvana.
It's true they haven't yet stood up in public and admitted it, but the voters have already noticed.
In that sense the brand is well and truly Ratnered.
Even this morning Conhome survey 41% do not back Sunak's NI proposals even though they have not been published
There are people who want a deal no matter the concessions that might be made, and people who do not want a deal no matter what concessions might be given. There are a lot of others who are inclined to accept a deal, but at least are waiting for detail.
It is useful to have it be made clear how many actually have no interest in any deal whatsoever, given they are unlikely to he honest on that point.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
U.K. government data showed that those least likely to have photo-ID were:
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
More than three years ago one of the main messages from the electorate was that they were sick of hearing about Brexit, they wanted it done and then to forget about it.
One of the ways in which Starmer can still lose the next election would be to start talking about Brexit.
I think he's being pessimistic, I think going overtly racist can be a lucrative path for some people.
Fair play to the story for actually detailing what he said, and putting it in its context (which doesn't help him still) for once.
Many US newspapers including the Washington Post have dropped the long-running Dilbert cartoon strip after its creator made racist comments.
In a video on YouTube, Scott Adams, who is white, said black Americans were part of a "hate group" and that white people should "get the hell away" from them.
Mr Adams, 65, later acknowledged that his career was destroyed.
He said most of his income would be gone by next week.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
Can't imagine being sent home to find ID will enamour those who return to vote for the very folk who inconvenienced them.
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Slight air of ‘Ok I shit myself but can we all move on’
I must say a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror piques my interest in a grisly way. On a connected note Paris Police 1905 starts next Saturday!
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
More than three years ago one of the main messages from the electorate was that they were sick of hearing about Brexit, they wanted it done and then to forget about it.
One of the ways in which Starmer can still lose the next election would be to start talking about Brexit.
He's been for ages. And sorting it out while the Tories yelp about Brexit being betrayed will do him no damage.
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
The trouble is we have no government in Stormont, the Protocol bill acing as a sword of Damocles over the economy deterring investment and whilst this is all going on it is very difficult to improve on the very thin deal we negotiated with the EU in 2020. And no that doesn't mean GB rejoining the single market or customs union.
6/ UK source says: “The ERG team meeting last week on the protocol had only 22 people who showed up, 18 months ago, you would have had 80 people there. The ERG simply don't have the numbers. So Sunak is going to face them down on Monday”
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Slight air of ‘Ok I shit myself but can we all move on’
I must say a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror piques my interest in a grisly way. On a connected note Paris Police 1905 starts next Saturday!
Leon is becoming a Brexter expatriate fervently discussing the Terror of Starmer?
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Tell it to ERG who want everything to be about squabbles with the EU forever.
David Cameron, 17 years ago:
“While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life, we were banging on about Europe.”
And now whilst people are desperately worried about the fact that all their money seems to have been removed from them, you're banging on about Europe.
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
You are a knob sometimes. “Brexit” is mentioned in the front page headlines of the Sunday Telegraph, the Sunday Times and the Mail on Sunday this morning. The word is prominent in the leading stories of the BBC and Sky News websites. If you want a French Revolution metaphor it looks like Robespierre is gone, the Directory is teetering and we’re about to get the mother of all reactions.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
Although a great deal of the ID acceptable for socialising mysteriously isn't acceptable for voting. I do wonder how many will be confident about waving their passport in a public area with absolutely no security?
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
Can't imagine being sent home to find ID will enamour those who return to vote for the very folk who inconvenienced them.
Ironically I won’t have any difficulty voting because I have a postal vote.
Yet postal voting is where all the abuse occurs but that wasn’t the bit that was attacked.
Andre ember that the law doesn’t reflect what was suggested by the electoral commission who said that a providing the voting card that was sent was really all that was really necessary
I think he's being pessimistic, I think going overtly racist can be a lucrative path for some people.
Fair play to the story for actually detailing what he said, and putting it in its context (which doesn't help him still) for once.
Many US newspapers including the Washington Post have dropped the long-running Dilbert cartoon strip after its creator made racist comments.
In a video on YouTube, Scott Adams, who is white, said black Americans were part of a "hate group" and that white people should "get the hell away" from them.
Mr Adams, 65, later acknowledged that his career was destroyed.
He said most of his income would be gone by next week.
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Tell it to ERG who want everything to be about squabbles with the EU forever.
David Cameron, 17 years ago:
“While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life, we were banging on about Europe.”
And now whilst people are desperately worried about the fact that all their money seems to have been removed from them, you're banging on about Europe.
Not a problem, they'll soon have nothing to spend it on in the food shops anyway becvause Brexit really has done in the food network whose problems the same governments ignored while obsessed with Brexiting.
Lots of people suggesting Luciana Berger should stand in Islington North. I’d say that’s probably the worst and most insensitive thing Labour could do to her. Throw her straight into the nest of vipers and probably the nastiest constituency battle of the next election.
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
According to Electoral Calculus - presumably on the current boundaries - Southport is a seat in Merseyside pretty close to the boundary between a minority and majority Labour government.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
Parachuting non-local candidates into marginals and annoying the membership what could go wrong?
I wouldn't force her onto a local party, but as someone who has lived in several different places over my life, I don't share the same obsession with local candidates that some people have.
I dont think the local Liverpool Party were ever that enamoured with her in the first place - long before JC's ascent and the allegations of anti-semitism she had been accused of being dropped in from London. Liverpool's CLPs are notoriously tribal and theres still a lot of bitterness about how that all panned out. I believe the City Council elections are likely to be very messy this May (thats if they are able to vote with the right ID)
Mr. Boy, two things: the decision was made on political rather than economic grounds. And that economic argument was the strength of the EU case but it was made incredibly poorly during a campaign that was remarkable for having two terrible sides.
They weren't trying to understand why it happened but how it could make sense from an economic POV, hence their confusion. The Americans think we're nuts.
It did make economic sense for the people who voted for it:
Wages for British workers will rise in the event of a Brexit, head of 'in' campaign, Lord Rose says
Lord Rose, the head of the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, suggests that wages of low skilled workers could rise in the event of a Brexit
So why are those workers, many in areas full of vacancies, on strike because of real terms pay cuts?
The problem of shrinking the economy is that there is less for everyone.
And if we had stayed in the EU we would still have the inflation we have as we can see by looking at the inflation rates in EU countries, however those min wage workers would still be on min wage rather than having had pay rises to attract workers.
It is pretty much public sector workers on strike not hospitality workers etc and the pay rises for the public sector have never really had any connection with market forces
Um we wouldn’t. 2 years ago the warehouse workers round here were on £10 or so an hour. Now they are on £12+ because unless you pay that your workforce has moved to the warehouse paying more.
That isn’t the case in the public sector so the strikes are going on because there isn’t wage completion for workers so wages are rising at well below the wages in other markets.
Now long term the issue will be fixed as public sector workers move to the private sector but because the work still needs to be done it just results in the public sector paying agencies to find workers while paying them a shed load more money.
Which is why I said it’s economically neutral
to pay nhs nurses 20% more because that is less than is currently being spent paying agencies to
fill the shift to minimum staffing levels.
You disagreed then typed out exactly the same thing I had said in different words as proof of your disagreement? Colour me puzzled
Ugh. 35 bonus points on PB Cliche Bingo.
I have a list of ‘things’ that should be banned from PB. It only has one item
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
Someone complains about lists of things to ban, makes a list of things to ban.
Physician, heal thyself.
This comment has destroyed itself due to a self-referential paradox.
…leading to destruction of the entire multiverse. @TSE wasn’t editing PB, either…
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Tell it to ERG who want everything to be about squabbles with the EU forever.
David Cameron, 17 years ago:
“While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life, we were banging on about Europe.”
And now whilst people are desperately worried about the fact that all their money seems to have been removed from them, you're banging on about Europe.
That whooshing noise you can hear is 'the point' flying over your head...
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
Oh the irony. You bored us to tears about it for months and months and months when we all wanted to move on and now you are bored. Suck it up.
That was before the referendum. Which we Leavers won
It is now done
And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants
As I am basically an expatriate now, let me offer the perspective of an outsider
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
It's like having a baby though. Strangely, most parents are anxious to talk about how wonderful their kids are. Despite them being annoying, expensive and inconvenient. Shut the fuck up about my child is only heard when it's become a delinquent brat.
Sort of agree with Fruity. There's a settled consensus that Brexit was a mistake and it's getting stale as a topic. Best to look forward. On which point, Sunak sorting out a deal on NI is rocking good news. I applaud him for it whilst noting he has no choice really. If he wimped on this to appease the loons his PMship would become a farce and he may as well jack it in.
Comments
Enjoying watching @HumzaYousaf on #BBCLauraK setting out the argument that the route to a second referendum is to win the argument and show sustained polling support for independence. Exactly what I've been saying for years.
https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1629782432231636994?s=20
It will be revealing to see what the members make of the argument
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highlands_and_Islands_Medical_Service
Note to those watching @bbclaurak Humza’s #HateCrimeBill is still not in force more than 18 months after it was passed & significant aspects of it would not survive a #HumanRights challenge. Facts matter #SNPLeadershipElection
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
Only MP to declare support for Regan so far.
Clegg has a lot to answer for!
Just accept it’s not gone very well, it’s not that hard. I accept we made a mistake electing Corbyn
Former treasurer Douglas Chapman spoke to detectives and other key figures were contacted in connection with the probe.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-quizzed-senior-snp-members-29314477
Give it time !!!!
Pressure is growing on the health minister to explain if he was excused voting on the issue due to pressure from religious leaders.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/more-ex-government-ministers-claim-29314669
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM PB:
1. People who make pompous lists of things, words, phrases that should be banned, like they are some fucking titan of the English language, the twats
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629781734916014080?s=20
Physician, heal thyself.
I expect him to poll better than the party which should help add a few percent to the results . I still expect Labour to win the GE but I don’t see a big majority .
I remember thinking when that poll came out showing Labour members preferred Starmer - they are interested in power again….and when the Tories chose Truss…..the reverse….
She should be found a relatively tranquil seat with not too many antisemites or trots in the local Labour Party.
Must have hit [edit] the LDs in the goolies in the university towns above all.
@AshReganSNP
confirms on #BBCSundayShow she doesn’t support using next General Election as a de facto referendum. On a risk/benefit analysis it’s not the way to advance the cause of #independence. There’s no shortcut to increasing support. Work needs done.
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1629786797919162368?s=20
https://twitter.com/AshReganSNP/status/1629081412161744896?s=20
1. SNP voters
2. The Electorate
3. SNP members
My feeling, and it is just a feeling, is that the members will go for who they best think will provide the best path to independence. I know some pretty progressive SNP members, who will be massively turned off by Kate Forbes but even for them there must be a point where they would vote for a candidate antithetical to their values if they thought it would bring about independence. Throw in the fact that Regan supporters are likely to transfer largely into Forbes votes I think she has a real chance. In my view, it's all to play for. If Kate Forbes can pivot to emphasise the compassionate side of her faith (which does exist) then she could start to gain votes.
If I was on her campaign, that would be my strategy going forward. Respond to any questions about gay rights as already answered and refuse to repeat those answers while simultaneously focussing on bread and butter cost of living, sound finances and how to move independence forward.
However, at the end of the day this is all a bit speculative and, without a good poll of members, essentially guess work.
Was speaking with some SNP councillors yesterday and they brought up that graphic that shows Tory members and MPs relative to the average Tory voter, and they suggested the SNP were the same but inverted.
You'd hope that the local Labour party in a marginal would be more focused on defeating the Tories than on fighting internal battles.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
2019 was an outlier. The blue team has achieved a majority twice in 6 general elections, a stable one only once. They have been stamping on eggshells while behaving like they can walk on water. For all his faults Starmer has productively spent his time facing up to the problems in his party and seeking to fix them. The Tories don’t even think they’ve got a problem.
If you've been wondering why Ash Regan hasn't been giving many interviews during her SNP leadership campaign, this morning's Sunday Show interview, in which she appeared to cite the American Declaration of Independence as a blueprint for Scottish independence, may be instructive.
https://twitter.com/MartynMcL/status/1629788192156024832?s=20
Cost of living was highlighted as the number 1 concern in that Scottish poll the other day, and it's something that we see none of the main parties addressing - it's not so much the elephant in the room, it's the elephant standing on our feet. Sunak's pathetic Government is still wedded to the worst self-harming green policies, even when they have been utterly found out - seemingly governing on behalf of Joe Biden these days if Robert Buckland is any indication. The Autumn statement has harmed North Sea Oil production and the energy secretary prefers selfies with Bill Gates to actually increasing the energy supply.
All Starmer promises is more of the same, with a 'green industrial revolution', the silly prick. That leaves a vast open goal there for either Reform/Farage, or the Tory party to come to its senses and dump the dismal decline manager. Virtually on day one, VAT on domestic fuel could be suspended, assuring the public that the Government actually is on their side - a just, fair policy and a Brexit benefit to boot. Then it would actually be game on for GE2024.
For the next few decades, Scotland will end up with devo-max to the max, but no independence.
A pragmatic compromise eliminating the worst defects of the operation of the protocol is available. Sources in Brussels say a deal is essentially done. Cabinet ministers were led to expect that they would get sight of a draft agreement last week, only then to be disappointed.
As so often with the sorry saga of Brexit, the obstacle to an agreement is not the EU, but closer to home. Many are sceptical that the DUP are keen on resuming power-sharing at Stormont, because it would mean serving in a government with a first minister from Sinn Fein. As for the Brexiters in the Tory party, the more practical of them are making positive noises, but the ultras are already frothing that Mr Sunak is going to “sell out” the “true principles” of Brexit.
If anyone has betrayed the national interest, it is these Brextremists. Those trying to sabotage an agreement are the very same people who told us that leaving the EU would be a piece of cake and that Britain would hold all the cards in withdrawal negotiations, the very same people who promised that we would live happily ever after in a land of milk and honey while exulting over the rock-hard Brexit produced by Mr Johnson.
You might be tempted to feel a twinge of sympathy for the prime minister. Don’t. These dilemmas are consequences of the Brexit that he backed. And they are a legacy of Mr Johnson, who got to Number 10 in the first place with the endorsement of Mr Sunak. You reap what you sow.
1. As a Leaver, I'm not a Conservative. I'm a Lib Dem. Probably always have been.
2. Whilst there I completely agree with your comments about the Conservatives completely messing up Brexit, there were obviously better ways to deal with Brexit. The most obvious being either EEA or EFTA+, but I suppose people completely read the vote wrong.
Rather than stepping back and going, "52:48 - that's pretty close. Taking it in the round, we clearly need to leave the EU but we don't need to leave everything within the EU. Hey look, ready made solutions can be found in the EEA or perhaps negotiated in an EFTA+ arrangement.", the Conservatives went (and this was the 'Remainer' Theresa May), "Nukes on standby, target Paris and Berlin."
3. I suppose my final point to make is that things might not have been any better with a Remain vote. Either we'd have ended up with a constant UKIP (like the SNP) vote doing very very well in an alt 2020 election (or 2021) or we'd end up with running sores as the EU took the Remain vote to drive harder and faster integration across Europe and suddenly we'd end up with Remainers regret just as much as we now have Leavers regret.
Merely having the vote was going to cause huge problems, whatever the outcome. Step forward one David Cameron for that great idea.
Helps that I've got all the Bond books in their original form.
"Italy shipwreck: Dozens of migrants killed off Calabria coast
More than 40 migrants, including a baby, have died and dozens more have survived after their overloaded boat sank in rough seas off southern Italy.
The vessel reportedly broke apart while trying to land with more than 100 people aboard near the coastal town of Crotone in the Calabria region.
Many bodies have been recovered from the beach at a nearby seaside resort. "
https://twitter.com/mrblairbowman/status/1629810194510143488?s=20
I do wonder if the Tufton St gerrymanderers have misplayed this. Plenty of elders will be turned away for doing what they've done for 50+ years and they might not come back. Where I've noticed younger people are more likely to have a photo ID to hand than their parents by virtue of having needed it for recreation.
Fair play to the story for actually detailing what he said, and putting it in its context (which doesn't help him still) for once.
Many US newspapers including the Washington Post have dropped the long-running Dilbert cartoon strip after its creator made racist comments.
In a video on YouTube, Scott Adams, who is white, said black Americans were part of a "hate group" and that white people should "get the hell away" from them.
Mr Adams, 65, later acknowledged that his career was destroyed.
He said most of his income would be gone by next week.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64775250
https://twitter.com/scotfax/status/1629797393951588352?s=20
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT BREXIT
Honestly. It’s beyond boring it is bewildering. It’s like finding a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror
The Tories sold Brexit as Nirvana.
It's true they haven't yet stood up in public and admitted it, but the voters have already noticed.
In that sense the brand is well and truly Ratnered.
It is useful to have it be made clear how many actually have no interest in any deal whatsoever, given they are unlikely to he honest on that point.
- older
- Lower educational achievement
That’s probably quite a lot of pensioners…..
To be reminded of the shitshow you brought forth, every day, for the rest of time...
One of the ways in which Starmer can still lose the next election would be to start talking about Brexit.
I must say a nest of French Royalists fervently discussing the Terror piques my interest in a grisly way. On a connected note Paris Police 1905 starts next Saturday!
“While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life, we were banging on about Europe.”
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1629618106569048067?s=20
I do wonder how many will be confident about waving their passport in a public area with absolutely no security?
Yet postal voting is where all the abuse occurs but that wasn’t the bit that was attacked.
Andre ember that the law doesn’t reflect what was suggested by the electoral commission who said that a providing the voting card that was sent was really all that was really necessary
It is now done
And, honestly, it is extremely boring. Like some mad family arguing over a long dead great great great aunt who left an antique Turkish commode to one of the servants
Strangely, most parents are anxious to talk about how wonderful their kids are.
Despite them being annoying, expensive and inconvenient.
Shut the fuck up about my child is only heard when it's become a delinquent brat.