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There’s life in the old dog yet – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,297
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    One of the ways to maintain the Union (apart from addressing the corrupted devolution settlements) is the funding of Union-wide institutions to be located (or shifted) in the nations.

    For example, I could imagine Scotland hosting Britain’s Space Centre (albeit the current industry is clustered around Oxford), an Arctic Centre, and a perma-location for Britain’s Scandinavian co-operation.

    Scotland could/should even host the NHS HQ (currently no such thing really exists, because health is split into national entities, but one can imagine a union-wide research and procurement body).

    Northern Ireland, or again Scotland, could host a centre which focus efforts around Sustainable Energy. Ditto Wales for farming and food science.

    You want to place such bodies in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast, or Cardiff.

    Previous efforts to do such things have not been especially successful as (for example) the Statistics body was just dumped in Newport which (a) has no obvious logic behind it, (b) is not going to create any spin-off effects; and (c) is not the sort of place anyone actually wants to work.

    Treasury’s positioning of its northern branch in already-prosperous Darlington was another stupid move, for slightly different reasons.

    Or just accept that obvious logic that London is your capital city.
    OK, but other countries don’t centralise in the way London traditionally has, and they still - shock - have capital cities.
    Much like London then. Last time I checked it was our capital city.
    You appear to have misunderstood my point.
    Britain has grossly over-centralised its institutions in London, in a way unseen most everywhere else, and it is causing a problem for the Union.
    I did rather misread your point.

    France is similarly centralised, and many other nations are of a different structure (US, Germany and Italy clearly). Portugal, China, Korea and Japan may well be much the same, but I lack the knowledge to say.

    I don't agree at all that it creates problems.
    S Korea more so than us; nearly half the population live in the greater Seoul metropolitan area.
    But they understand, and have for decades, the importance of manufacturing for their economy.

    Plenty of other problems, but national identity isn’t one of them.
    Did you manage to get that “How Asia Works” book? I really enjoyed it. The author has something else coming out in 2023.
    Yes, thanks for the suggestion.
    Haven’t yet managed to start it - still reading Ellsberg’s ‘Secrets’.

    Also Covid this week means I can’t really cope with anything more demanding the PB comments…
    Get better!

    Isn’t this your umpteenth bout with Covid?!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Pence announces Social Security will be ‘on the table’.

    Mike Pence on CNBC this morning:

    “While I respect the Speaker's commitment to take Social Security and Medicare off the table for the debt ceiling negotiations, we've gotta put 'em on the table in the long term"

    https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1628402230041759750

    The ‘long term’ being after November 2024.
  • .

    Carnyx said:

    Regan has been gently sliding in without actually saying or doing much. It’s very possible she could turbocharge or self-destruct her campaign as soon as a journalist talks to her

    I was wondering if I was almost the only one who noticed how she'd been ignored. Apart of course for our lunar lagomorph commenting on her fashion and footwear sense. And one of our Tories rather ungentlemanily (?sp) referring to the lady by her now divorced husband's surname.
    I think I saw on twitter that the low profile campaign with no interviews given thus far was her decsion, possibly a wise choice when looking at the so far landmine filled week. No word on whether the Indian Council of Scotland or the Muslim Council of the UK have expressed an opinion on her candidacy.
    A genuine question

    Who do you think will win this contest ?
    Unless someone else chucks their hat in the ring or he blows up*, Yousaf.

    Edit: *sorry, tasteless phrase considering the Islamophobic abuse chucked his way on a regular basis.
    I'm waiting for somebody like Lord Kilcooney calling Humza Yousaf the moniker Abu Hamza.
    I’d completely forgotten about David Coburn! Where is he now, said no one.


  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    Birmingham was actually doing reasonably well up to last year, in a workaday and unexciting sort of way. Like a Houston or Stuttgart. Now suffering on most measures as the auto industry stutters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.

    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?

    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TimS said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    Birmingham was actually doing reasonably well up to last year, in a workaday and unexciting sort of way. Like a Houston or Stuttgart. Now suffering on most measures as the auto industry stutters.
    Really? Not sure I’ve seen very glowing economic data on the West Midlands. But, judging from your posting record, you may be closer to the details.
  • .

    Carnyx said:

    Regan has been gently sliding in without actually saying or doing much. It’s very possible she could turbocharge or self-destruct her campaign as soon as a journalist talks to her

    I was wondering if I was almost the only one who noticed how she'd been ignored. Apart of course for our lunar lagomorph commenting on her fashion and footwear sense. And one of our Tories rather ungentlemanily (?sp) referring to the lady by her now divorced husband's surname.
    I think I saw on twitter that the low profile campaign with no interviews given thus far was her decsion, possibly a wise choice when looking at the so far landmine filled week. No word on whether the Indian Council of Scotland or the Muslim Council of the UK have expressed an opinion on her candidacy.
    A genuine question

    Who do you think will win this contest ?
    Unless someone else chucks their hat in the ring or he blows up*, Yousaf.

    Edit: *sorry, tasteless phrase considering the Islamophobic abuse chucked his way on a regular basis.
    I'm waiting for somebody like Lord Kilcooney calling Humza Yousaf the moniker Abu Hamza.
    I’d completely forgotten about David Coburn! Where is he now, said no one.


    He's a fine art dealer these days.

    He follows me on Twitter, these days he tweets/retweets about small boats and Nicola Sturgeon looking like one of the Krankies.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,763

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.

    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?

    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.
    So you're disagreeing with your own opinion? That was your quote.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited February 2023
    What I like about the USA is there’s no expectation that cities need to go cap in hand to Washington to tell them what to do.

    And the diversity of the broader ecosystem means that when and if New York and San Francisco stutter, Phoenix and Atlanta are there to pick up the slack.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    TimS said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    Birmingham was actually doing reasonably well up to last year, in a workaday and unexciting sort of way. Like a Houston or Stuttgart. Now suffering on most measures as the auto industry stutters.
    Stutters, or shutters ?

    The failure to do anything of significance about the transition to EV manufacturing is one of the more significant mistakes of government since Brexit. We’re well on the way to becoming a complete backwater as far as mass manufacturing is concerned.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To seal the New Lords deal with Scots, the next Labour government should promise to pull down the Giant Jobbie hotel-turd in Edinburgh, and replace it with a noble beautiful stone building in aesthetic keeping with the Athens of the North

    I imagine that proposal would get 97.8% approval from most people in Edinburgh. Even the Nats

    Of course this is a joke.
    But, it’s actually totally, completely, and utterly true.
    I’m quite serious. And yes it is true

    Everyone loathes that horrible stupid poo building. The one way to slightly endear HMG to Scots would be to pull it down for something handsome and, dare I say it, a tiny bit British
    "tiny bit British"

    Like this newish HMG (London) embassy:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9524197,-3.1829895,3a,90y,31.72h,98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFTFjYoV5b8HriED0rlAmaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
    Another missed opportunity by HMG.

    Given the wealth of British architectural talent, it kind of takes a special sort of stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with the development per se, but there’s nothing right about it either.
    Given it's right opposite the Royal High School, which was slated for the Parliament till Labour decided it would be pandering to the Nationalists [sic] ...

    And just compare it with what HMG used to be able tdo do in the form of St Andrew House just along, the palace of the Satraps of Old ...
    I never really understood why basingthe parliament in the Royal High School building would have been pandering to the nats, nor what political advantage Slab thought they would derive from the Scottish parliament building's construction.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Regan has been gently sliding in without actually saying or doing much. It’s very possible she could turbocharge or self-destruct her campaign as soon as a journalist talks to her

    I was wondering if I was almost the only one who noticed how she'd been ignored. Apart of course for our lunar lagomorph commenting on her fashion and footwear sense. And one of our Tories rather ungentlemanily (?sp) referring to the lady by her now divorced husband's surname.
    I think I saw on twitter that the low profile campaign with no interviews given thus far was her decsion, possibly a wise choice when looking at the so far landmine filled week. No word on whether the Indian Council of Scotland or the Muslim Council of the UK have expressed an opinion on her candidacy.
    A genuine question

    Who do you think will win this contest ?
    Unless someone else chucks their hat in the ring or he blows up*, Yousaf.

    Edit: *sorry, tasteless phrase considering the Islamophobic abuse chucked his way on a regular basis.
    I'm waiting for somebody like Lord Kilcooney calling Humza Yousaf the moniker Abu Hamza.
    I’d completely forgotten about David Coburn! Where is he now, said no one.


    He's a fine art dealer these days.

    He follows me on Twitter, these days he tweets/retweets about small boats and Nicola Sturgeon looking like one of the Krankies.
    Looks a cultured sort of chap.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.

    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?

    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.
    So you're disagreeing with your own opinion? That was your quote.
    No I was disagreeing with your disagreement.
    Do you read English?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited February 2023

    TimS said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    Birmingham was actually doing reasonably well up to last year, in a workaday and unexciting sort of way. Like a Houston or Stuttgart. Now suffering on most measures as the auto industry stutters.
    Really? Not sure I’ve seen very glowing economic data on the West Midlands. But, judging from your posting record, you may be closer to the details.
    Fastest growing region outside London and the SE pre Covid, but terrible since.

    Useful summary here https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/plan-to-supercharge-west-midlands-economy-announced-as-true-scale-of-covid-impact-becomes-clear/

    Wider W Mids but that’s essentially Birmingham plus the black country and Coventry (which has absolutely boomed).

    I think the growth in the 2010s is probably part of the reason it’s become a Tory stronghold.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening All :)

    Thanks to @Alanbrooke for an interesting piece.

    My view has always been, unlike some, if Scotland voted for independence, I would wish them well and would want Westminster to do everything possible to ensure the new country succeeded. It wouldn't do England and Wales any favours to have an impoverished, resentful independent Scotland on its doorstep so I'd be in favour of a generous financial settlement.

    It would then be up to the Scottish Government and people to make it work and rightly so whether inside or outside the EU for example.

    Where I do think @Alanbrooke has a point is over the integrity of England - I sense from this forum and elsewhere the kind of growing economic, social, political and cultural disconnections we see in America and to an extent Australia. Whether north vs south, city vs country or whatever the divisions (or perceptions of those divisions) are growing more acute.

    I live in London and I'm aware my experience isn't that of someone living in the midlands or the north inasmuch as I don't have to worry too much about the last bus or train home or indeed about many of the trappings of what passes for civilised life. That doesn't make London a nice place or an easy place, just a different place.

    I could certainly envisage some advocating an Independent London outside the UK - the financial arguments applied to Scotland wouldn't apply to London and whether it would be a Singapore-on-Thames I don't know but the ability of workers to commute in from the RUK to London would make the viability and dependency of any new city state obvious.

    Finally, I'm aware treating "the north" and "the midlands" as homogenous entities is foolish, so is thinking of London as one thing or place. Indeed, I'd argue Newham is as far removed from Kensington & Chelsea as possible but geographically we're split by less than 15 miles.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To seal the New Lords deal with Scots, the next Labour government should promise to pull down the Giant Jobbie hotel-turd in Edinburgh, and replace it with a noble beautiful stone building in aesthetic keeping with the Athens of the North

    I imagine that proposal would get 97.8% approval from most people in Edinburgh. Even the Nats

    Of course this is a joke.
    But, it’s actually totally, completely, and utterly true.
    I’m quite serious. And yes it is true

    Everyone loathes that horrible stupid poo building. The one way to slightly endear HMG to Scots would be to pull it down for something handsome and, dare I say it, a tiny bit British
    "tiny bit British"

    Like this newish HMG (London) embassy:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9524197,-3.1829895,3a,90y,31.72h,98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFTFjYoV5b8HriED0rlAmaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
    Another missed opportunity by HMG.

    Given the wealth of British architectural talent, it kind of takes a special sort of stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with the development per se, but there’s nothing right about it either.
    Given it's right opposite the Royal High School, which was slated for the Parliament till Labour decided it would be pandering to the Nationalists [sic] ...

    And just compare it with what HMG used to be able tdo do in the form of St Andrew House just along, the palace of the Satraps of Old ...
    I never really understood why basingthe parliament in the Royal High School building would have been pandering to the nats, nor what political advantage Slab thought they would derive from the Scottish parliament building's construction.
    It's\ because the RHS is (a) lovely (b) had been empty for yonks (C) had been the site for a 24 hr/7 days a week demo for indepndence etc. so of course it was ruled straight off the backj of the envelope.

    Logical syllogism was: Putting it in RHS = pandering to nats = disadvantageous to Labour (not Slab entirely, really Labour as a whole: can't remember if there was any disagreement within Labour vs Slab, was a long time ago).

    Edit: RHS was advocated by the indy folk, whose vigil was very close to it.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5877580312
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,763

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.

    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?

    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.
    So you're disagreeing with your own opinion? That was your quote.
    No I was disagreeing with your disagreement.
    Do you read English?
    Baffling.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Ah our daily reference to life in East Ham or Leicester is fulfilled. It was Woking yesterday, which seemed strange and unfamiliar
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To seal the New Lords deal with Scots, the next Labour government should promise to pull down the Giant Jobbie hotel-turd in Edinburgh, and replace it with a noble beautiful stone building in aesthetic keeping with the Athens of the North

    I imagine that proposal would get 97.8% approval from most people in Edinburgh. Even the Nats

    Of course this is a joke.
    But, it’s actually totally, completely, and utterly true.
    I’m quite serious. And yes it is true

    Everyone loathes that horrible stupid poo building. The one way to slightly endear HMG to Scots would be to pull it down for something handsome and, dare I say it, a tiny bit British
    I'm not a fan of the exterior, especially those artistic "bicycle racks", which always seem to be empty of bicycles (based on 14 years of Google Streetview I examined once). I think it was probably a mistake a) To choose an architect from Spain who had not built convincingly in a Scottish-type climate before, and b) To go imo a little OTT for artistic impression.

    Personally, I much prefer the Senedd Building by the Richard Rogers Partnership.

    Though I have not been back to either for a few years.

    On Westminster, I'm not convinced that a renovation budget of up to £22bn, which is much more than the estimated savings of £18bn by crippling HS2, can in any way be justified.

    (Blockquotes may have mangled)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Therese Coffey has ruled out the new reintroduction of lost species into British landscapes, in order to allay concern from farmers.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.



    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?


    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.


    So you're disagreeing with your own opinion? That was your quote.
    No I was disagreeing with your disagreement.
    Do you read English?
    Baffling.
    Not really. But this is becoming a strong challenger to “how much does Boris weigh?” as the dullest PB exchange of all time

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,763

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    This is very true: Madrid was - from a business perspective - always Barcelona's poorer cousin, but in the last couple of years, it's really changed. No one wants to put money into Barcelona any more.
    Poor Hong Kong is suffering a similar fate. Rio and Cape Town always seemed to have this second city problem - pretty but socially toxic. And over in the US, though not for all the same reasons, San Francisco.
    At the end of the day, the world doesn’t owe any particular city a living.

    Hong Kong prospered as an Asian entrepôt, China’s rule is slowly killing that model.

    Rio and Cape Town don’t seem to be able to deliver on some vital social infrastructure.

    San Fransciso is pricing itself out of growth, etc.

    In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world; the Treasury insists that they can’t even take a piss without asking for permission (almost literally).
    This isn't true, and I worry that you living in the US and a Kiwi by origin might not make you the best qualified to comment.
    Sorry, which bit isn’t true?
    Gardenwalker : "In Britain, Birmingham et al is not allowed to even have an opinion on how it is to make its way in the world;"
    I don’t think it really is.



    To have a (proper) opinion you need to commission research and reports, and why would public bodies bother if their remit merely extends to desperately trying to stem the crisis in adult social care?


    Treasury has trained local government into a pathetic, brainless myopia.


    So you're disagreeing with your own opinion? That was your quote.
    No I was disagreeing with your disagreement.
    Do you read English?
    Baffling.
    Not really. But this is becoming a strong challenger to “how much does Boris weigh?” as the dullest PB exchange of all time

    Well then you have my apologies.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited February 2023
    I've been working in Amesbury, right by Boscombe Down, for the last week and a half, and am there until the end of this week, working six days a week. It's quite nice for a change. Though I'm having to start an hour early at 7, I get given a van and paid for the 45 minute each way commute

    The route is easy. On my route in Aldbourne, on a busy day, I walk 11 miles and climb over 100 "flights of stairs" (hills count), according to my phone. In Amesbury, so far, I walk less than seven miles and haven't yet had a day when I've got to 10 flights of stairs

    Yesterday I had to deliver a box of fresh flowers to a lady. They fit these flowers into about A5 width and inch depth boxes that fit through most letterboxes. This lady doesn't have a letterbox, she has a mailbox on the wall which wouldn't adequately hold the box of flowers

    I looked for a "safe place" to leave them. Round the side of her house there was a water butt on two breeze blocks with a space between them. I put the flowers in the space and went back to the front door to write my 739 (the red card we leave if we've hidden/given to your neighbour/taken back to the office, your parcel

    In the Safe Place section I wrote

    UNDER YOUR BUTT WATER BUTT

    I had a parcel for the same lady today. I knocked twice (several knocks, but in two bursts) and waited. After about a minute with no response I went and put the quite slim parcel between the wall and her water butt

    I returned to the front door and was just about to start writing the 739 when the door opened. The lady apologised for taking so long to come to the door and I apologised for my puerile butt message yesterday

    She said, "Oh was that you? Everyone in the house loved that, and my Mum did, and the neighbours"

    The laughs continued as I told her that I was just about to write BEHIND YOUR BUTT (DON'T TURN AROUND) on her next 739

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,636

    What I like about the USA is there’s no expectation that cities need to go cap in hand to Washington to tell them what to do.

    And the diversity of the broader ecosystem means that when and if New York and San Francisco stutter, Phoenix and Atlanta are there to pick up the slack.

    Ironically the way the EU has developed is more centralised than the USA in certain aspects.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    What I like about the USA is there’s no expectation that cities need to go cap in hand to Washington to tell them what to do.

    And the diversity of the broader ecosystem means that when and if New York and San Francisco stutter, Phoenix and Atlanta are there to pick up the slack.

    Ironically the way the EU has developed is more centralised than the USA in certain aspects.
    Certainly in product and financial services regulation, and indirect tax. Obviously not so much in foreign policy, home affairs or other aspects of tax and spend.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    How much of this is population increase differences?
  • stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    Thanks to @Alanbrooke for an interesting piece.

    My view has always been, unlike some, if Scotland voted for independence, I would wish them well and would want Westminster to do everything possible to ensure the new country succeeded. It wouldn't do England and Wales any favours to have an impoverished, resentful independent Scotland on its doorstep so I'd be in favour of a generous financial settlement.

    It would then be up to the Scottish Government and people to make it work and rightly so whether inside or outside the EU for example.

    Where I do think @Alanbrooke has a point is over the integrity of England - I sense from this forum and elsewhere the kind of growing economic, social, political and cultural disconnections we see in America and to an extent Australia. Whether north vs south, city vs country or whatever the divisions (or perceptions of those divisions) are growing more acute.

    I live in London and I'm aware my experience isn't that of someone living in the midlands or the north inasmuch as I don't have to worry too much about the last bus or train home or indeed about many of the trappings of what passes for civilised life. That doesn't make London a nice place or an easy place, just a different place.

    I could certainly envisage some advocating an Independent London outside the UK - the financial arguments applied to Scotland wouldn't apply to London and whether it would be a Singapore-on-Thames I don't know but the ability of workers to commute in from the RUK to London would make the viability and dependency of any new city state obvious.

    Finally, I'm aware treating "the north" and "the midlands" as homogenous entities is foolish, so is thinking of London as one thing or place. Indeed, I'd argue Newham is as far removed from Kensington & Chelsea as possible but geographically we're split by less than 15 miles.

    An independent London would be a terrible idea - huge disparities of wealth with some very rich and some very poor, an undercurrent of race (rich people white, poorer people less-white) and with the Met your national police force. It would be a riot-a-week
  • Therese Coffey has ruled out the new reintroduction of lost species into British landscapes, in order to allay concern from farmers.

    Doing not a bad job with the lesser spotted Libdem..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,655

    Ah our daily reference to life in East Ham or Leicester is fulfilled. It was Woking yesterday, which seemed strange and unfamiliar

    The news from Leicester is that there is no news.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    How much of this is population increase differences?
    Oh, you want to be that guy.
    That’s not what they’re looking at.
    I’ve only skimmed, but apparently the issues go back a loooong way.

    (Centre for Cities is a centrist, perhaps centre-left, think tank, although the report has been welcomed by Trussian eminent gris Robert Colville of the Centre for Policy Studies).
  • New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    For some reason, you seem to absolutely revel in this idea Britain is uniquely doomed.
  • NEW THREAD

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Regan has been gently sliding in without actually saying or doing much. It’s very possible she could turbocharge or self-destruct her campaign as soon as a journalist talks to her

    I was wondering if I was almost the only one who noticed how she'd been ignored. Apart of course for our lunar lagomorph commenting on her fashion and footwear sense. And one of our Tories rather ungentlemanily (?sp) referring to the lady by her now divorced husband's surname.
    I think I saw on twitter that the low profile campaign with no interviews given thus far was her decsion, possibly a wise choice when looking at the so far landmine filled week. No word on whether the Indian Council of Scotland or the Muslim Council of the UK have expressed an opinion on her candidacy.
    A genuine question

    Who do you think will win this contest ?
    Unless someone else chucks their hat in the ring or he blows up*, Yousaf.

    Edit: *sorry, tasteless phrase considering the Islamophobic abuse chucked his way on a regular basis.
    I'm waiting for somebody like Lord Kilcooney calling Humza Yousaf the moniker Abu Hamza.
    I’d completely forgotten about David Coburn! Where is he now, said no one.


    He's a fine art dealer these days.

    He follows me on Twitter, these days he tweets/retweets about small boats and Nicola Sturgeon looking like one of the Krankies.
    Looks a cultured sort of chap.
    Like a fine yoghurt.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    How much of this is population increase differences?
    Oh, you want to be that guy.
    That’s not what they’re looking at.
    I’ve only skimmed, but apparently the issues go back a loooong way.

    (Centre for Cities is a centrist, perhaps centre-left, think tank, although the report has been welcomed by Trussian eminent gris Robert Colville of the Centre for Policy Studies).
    Not being ‘that’ guy, but it is a sensible question to ask, as is has our proportion of singles increased (divorces, never married etc). It’s always good to ask about data, unless you just want to push a narrative.
    I suspect we haven’t built as many homes as we should have for a long, long time. Our planning rules and nimby behaviour are a big issue.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    For some reason, you seem to absolutely revel in this idea Britain is uniquely doomed.
    The problem is that you mistake criticism of the government, or perhaps of various long term policies, as some kind delight in doom.

    Not at all.
    I am British, my kids are British, and my wealth is in the UK.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    If anyone who owns a house in Edinburgh or the Lothians votes yes the next time around they are either extraordinarily selfless or they have not been paying attention.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To seal the New Lords deal with Scots, the next Labour government should promise to pull down the Giant Jobbie hotel-turd in Edinburgh, and replace it with a noble beautiful stone building in aesthetic keeping with the Athens of the North

    I imagine that proposal would get 97.8% approval from most people in Edinburgh. Even the Nats

    Of course this is a joke.
    But, it’s actually totally, completely, and utterly true.
    I’m quite serious. And yes it is true

    Everyone loathes that horrible stupid poo building. The one way to slightly endear HMG to Scots would be to pull it down for something handsome and, dare I say it, a tiny bit British
    "tiny bit British"

    Like this newish HMG (London) embassy:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9524197,-3.1829895,3a,90y,31.72h,98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFTFjYoV5b8HriED0rlAmaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
    Another missed opportunity by HMG.

    Given the wealth of British architectural talent, it kind of takes a special sort of stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with the development per se, but there’s nothing right about it either.
    Given it's right opposite the Royal High School, which was slated for the Parliament till Labour decided it would be pandering to the Nationalists [sic] ...

    And just compare it with what HMG used to be able tdo do in the form of St Andrew House just along, the palace of the Satraps of Old ...
    I never really understood why basingthe parliament in the Royal High School building would have been pandering to the nats, nor what political advantage Slab thought they would derive from the Scottish parliament building's construction.
    It's\ because the RHS is (a) lovely (b) had been empty for yonks (C) had been the site for a 24 hr/7 days a week demo for indepndence etc. so of course it was ruled straight off the backj of the envelope.

    Logical syllogism was: Putting it in RHS = pandering to nats = disadvantageous to Labour (not Slab entirely, really Labour as a whole: can't remember if there was any disagreement within Labour vs Slab, was a long time ago).

    Edit: RHS was advocated by the indy folk, whose vigil was very close to it.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5877580312
    Now it’s set to become a national centre for music, harmony will presumably reign…

    https://www.smia.org.uk/news/new-national-centre-for-music-to-be-created-at-edinburghs-old-royal-high-school/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,655
    sarissa said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To seal the New Lords deal with Scots, the next Labour government should promise to pull down the Giant Jobbie hotel-turd in Edinburgh, and replace it with a noble beautiful stone building in aesthetic keeping with the Athens of the North

    I imagine that proposal would get 97.8% approval from most people in Edinburgh. Even the Nats

    Of course this is a joke.
    But, it’s actually totally, completely, and utterly true.
    I’m quite serious. And yes it is true

    Everyone loathes that horrible stupid poo building. The one way to slightly endear HMG to Scots would be to pull it down for something handsome and, dare I say it, a tiny bit British
    "tiny bit British"

    Like this newish HMG (London) embassy:

    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9524197,-3.1829895,3a,90y,31.72h,98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFTFjYoV5b8HriED0rlAmaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
    Another missed opportunity by HMG.

    Given the wealth of British architectural talent, it kind of takes a special sort of stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with the development per se, but there’s nothing right about it either.
    Given it's right opposite the Royal High School, which was slated for the Parliament till Labour decided it would be pandering to the Nationalists [sic] ...

    And just compare it with what HMG used to be able tdo do in the form of St Andrew House just along, the palace of the Satraps of Old ...
    I never really understood why basingthe parliament in the Royal High School building would have been pandering to the nats, nor what political advantage Slab thought they would derive from the Scottish parliament building's construction.
    It's\ because the RHS is (a) lovely (b) had been empty for yonks (C) had been the site for a 24 hr/7 days a week demo for indepndence etc. so of course it was ruled straight off the backj of the envelope.

    Logical syllogism was: Putting it in RHS = pandering to nats = disadvantageous to Labour (not Slab entirely, really Labour as a whole: can't remember if there was any disagreement within Labour vs Slab, was a long time ago).

    Edit: RHS was advocated by the indy folk, whose vigil was very close to it.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5877580312
    Now it’s set to become a national centre for music, harmony will presumably reign…

    https://www.smia.org.uk/news/new-national-centre-for-music-to-be-created-at-edinburghs-old-royal-high-school/
    I anticipate a chorus of objections.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz , the Scottish NI last year was much higher than pensions

    You want to be careful, malky - irritability and forgetfulness are symptoms of dementia.
    another nasty arsehole , what kind of a creep comes out with stuff like that , GIRUY
    I must say your reasoned assessments of the relative merits of the candidates have been pithy and consistent and entirely logical. Nothing wrong with the old brain.

    I don't think any of the Scots on here rates Mr Yousaf. Not one?

    But maybe we are all old farts on PB.
    I have to say the relentless downer on him from PB types who hate the SNP and indy, and have neither a vote in Scotland or in the leadership election is making me warm to him.
    I think he would be an excellent choice from the Scons point of view
    Yeah, they might break back into the low 20s in polling.
    The thought of SCons & SLab bickering over who gets to be distant second fair breaks my heart.
    The Scons would be the only party supporting the 100,000 plus North Sea jobs and duelling the A9 plus of course they are pro the union
    That's a Harry Potter sequel I wasn't expecting.

    Makes sense I suppose - Rowling lives just off the A9 in Aberfeldy.
    And of course if Kate Forbes won she would be very much on the same page as the Scons apart from on independence
    Parties with one huge and overwhelming constitutional policy, such as the SNP are in a sort of dilemma.

    If you drill down on what they want, they want two constitutional things (I hope).
    1) Scottish independence in
    2) A multi party democracy.

    The second means of course that the first aim intends that all shades of democratically accountable opinion, from Jezza to Lee Anderson to JRM will be held and get elected in the new country.

    And the more the SNP has views other than independence, especially slightly off the wall ones, the more they look like a faction not a national movement.

    Which is why you need the Scotland Liberation Front as well as the Front for the Liberation of Scotland - and possibly The Liberation of Scotland Front too.
    This is just Spiking Separatist Movements 101.

    Canada has a clever one.

    By ensuring that all Government documents must be bilingual in French & English, they created a large number of Francophones whose livelihoods depend on translating documents from English into French (or vice versa). Much (if not all) of the translation is redundant.

    An independent Quebec would be Francophone and have no need of an army of translators. Nor would Anglophone rump Canada need so many translators.

    Hence, the Canadian Government created French speakers with a vested interest in saying 'Non' to an independent Quebec.

    Certainly enough to have changed the result of the last referendum.
    Not entirely sure this specific theory holds water, although the broader point is surely right.

    The UK has made no attempt I can see to persuade the Scottish (or Welsh) bureaucratic elite to maintain the Union.

    This elite tend not be especially business savvy, and have not yet realised, in Scotland’s case, that independence means the end of the its Financial Services industry (just as Brexit obviously implied the slow collapse, or continued collapse if you like, of British manufacturing).
    Yes. See this fascinating FT article (££) on the sad decline of Barcelona. The city not the club

    Much of it is the usual. Crime, grime, Airbnb, illegal immigration, WFH, covid - but there’s an added element. Loads of major firms - even Catalan banks - have shifted HQs, offices and jobs to relatively booming Madrid

    Why? Just the threat of Catalan independence. Too destabilising. Edinburgh would be destroyed by
    Indy


    The Catalans haven't had a proper try at independence. The Scots have - they had to come cap in hand, and we English allowed them to put their cap back on and said that they'd be full partners. (Rather than a French enclave)
    Not that old chesnut yet again , how boring. Next it will eb how do you have a pension , what is your currency. FFS get a grip.
    What is the scottish currency going to be....big clue it wont be the pound unless you are going to just peg your currency to it frankly. I am a big fan of scottish indepedence but fuck off if you think we are going to be your central bank
  • New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    For some reason, you seem to absolutely revel in this idea Britain is uniquely doomed.
    The problem is that you mistake criticism of the government, or perhaps of various long term policies, as some kind delight in doom.

    Not at all.
    I am British, my kids are British, and my wealth is in the UK.
    I do not. I think you wallow in it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    New Centre for Cities research piece just dropped. Compared to the average European country, Britain has a backlog of 4.3 million homes.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/the-housebuilding-crisis.pdf

    For some reason, you seem to absolutely revel in this idea Britain is uniquely doomed.
    The problem is that you mistake criticism of the government, or perhaps of various long term policies, as some kind delight in doom.

    Not at all.
    I am British, my kids are British, and my wealth is in the UK.
    I do not. I think you wallow in it.
    You are entitled to you opinion, however wrongheaded.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Therese Coffey has ruled out the new reintroduction of lost species into British landscapes, in order to allay concern from farmers.

    No wolves or bears 🫢
  • malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    oniscoid said:

    This is the first article I've read on PB which for me has no redeeming features.

    New here?
    Assume all new posters are either
    a) a russian troll or b) a new pseudonym for our favourite flint knapper
    until proved otherwise :)
    If they are new then that really is a pretty rude first post. Actually even if they’re not new it’s a rude post. I think it’s great people give up their time to write headers, whether or not I agree with them (and I’m not sure I agree with this latest one).
    panties in a bunch luv
    That's a great expression, Malc. So much more expressive than 'knickers in a twist', which I take to be the tamer version that I'm used to. It's the local vernacular?

    No probs if I borrow it?
    A reminder to those who don't know how PB works - clicking on a poster's name gives details of their posting activity and when they joined.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,391
    oniscoid said:

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    oniscoid said:

    This is the first article I've read on PB which for me has no redeeming features.

    New here?
    Assume all new posters are either
    a) a russian troll or b) a new pseudonym for our favourite flint knapper
    until proved otherwise :)
    If they are new then that really is a pretty rude first post. Actually even if they’re not new it’s a rude post. I think it’s great people give up their time to write headers, whether or not I agree with them (and I’m not sure I agree with this latest one).
    panties in a bunch luv
    That's a great expression, Malc. So much more expressive than 'knickers in a twist', which I take to be the tamer version that I'm used to. It's the local vernacular?

    No probs if I borrow it?
    A reminder to those who don't know how PB works - clicking on a poster's name gives details of their posting activity and when they joined.
    Unless they've set their profile to 'private,' in which case it doesn't.
  • oniscoid said:

    This is the first article I've read on PB which for me has no redeeming features.

    New here?
    Sarcasm? Or too lazy to view my profile?
  • TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    oniscoid said:

    This is the first article I've read on PB which for me has no redeeming features.

    New here?
    Assume all new posters are either
    a) a russian troll or b) a new pseudonym for our favourite flint knapper
    until proved otherwise :)
    If they are new then that really is a pretty rude first post. Actually even if they’re not new it’s a rude post. I think it’s great people give up their time to write headers, whether or not I agree with them (and I’m not sure I agree with this latest one).
    Apologies if my post came over as 'rude'. It was meant to be factual, with the words 'for me' intended to mean that I was talking about my own feelings of surprise, rather than be meant as a criticism of the article, which I'm sure many posters here found of merit. PS It takes less time to click on my profile to see my posting history and when I joined, than to indulge in speculation as to whether I'm new here or not. :)
This discussion has been closed.