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Give us unity – but not just yet – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Leon said:

    A lot of American cities are really fucked. Hard to see a way out in the short-medium term
    Those that accept the financial pain and rebuild better will have a significant advantage over the one who try to tough it out. It will also mean a complete rethink of a great number of zoning laws.
    But you’re right, it’s going to be hard to sort out.
  • The co-convenor of Out for Independence, the SNP's LGBTQ+ wing, has submitted a formal complaint to the party's National Secretary after Kate Forbes said that "a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

    https://twitter.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1628025219280523265?s=20
  • Brexit, obvs…

    Supply of vegetables to Ireland disrupted by poor weather and energy costs

    Shortages reported in broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, aubergines and courgettes


    https://www.irishtimes.com/food/2023/02/21/supply-of-vegetables-to-ireland-disrupted-by-poor-weather-and-energy-costs/

    Brexit, obvs…

    Supply of vegetables to Ireland disrupted by poor weather and energy costs

    Shortages reported in broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, aubergines and courgettes


    https://www.irishtimes.com/food/2023/02/21/supply-of-vegetables-to-ireland-disrupted-by-poor-weather-and-energy-costs/

    A fabulously dumb comment:
    1. Not all shortages of any product anywhere on the globe is Brexit. Or not Brexit.
    2. Ireland has always been expensive / difficult to supply
    3. Ireland was bolted onto the UK supply chain which opened up its supply
    4. That is largely over post-Brexit with EU > UK > Irl or EU > Irl options both of which are expensive and a faff
    5. Irish consumers pay more than their UK counterparts as a result. But you can only flex price so much before volume drops as it is in the UK
    6. So faced with finite produce and some markets being higher cost, producers are diverting what they have to markets with the lowest supply chain costs and highest returns.

    So yes, Brexit. And it really is obvious if you know anything about the industry. Its been an endless story for year after year and the row in Norniron is literally this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    dixiedean said:

    No it isn't.
    It's a different point entirely.
    For a start. There is no membership. Nor conversion, nor expulsion, confirmation or hierarchy.
    So you are a Buddhist while you're being a Buddhist.
    You can drop in and out and everyone does.
    That's literally part of it.
    So no true Buddhist is actually fundamental.
    There clearly is conversion, of a brutal kind, and in which Buddhist monks participate, in Myanmar. That it doesn’t accord at all with Buddhist teachings doesn’t make it ‘not Buddhist’.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    edited February 2023

    Answer the question.

    What do we do when the rights of one group impinge on the rights of another?

    Pretend there is no conflict “no debate” or discuss it?
    (Sighs theatrically)

    By equating the two like that, you are trying to equate trans people and pedophiles. I wonder why you picked 'pedophiles' and not something like 'criminals' ?

    Would you ever say: "What rights do gay or straight people have that black/Asian people don’t? Does the same apply to pedophiles? "

    So I will not answer the question, as it is a false question, asked with bad intent.

    Edit: to make it clear: trans people != pedophiles.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559

    (Sighs theatrically)

    By equating the two like that, you are trying to equate trans people and pedophiles. I wonder why you picked 'pedophiles' and not something like 'criminals' ?

    Would you ever say: "What rights do gay or straight people have that black/Asian people don’t? Does the same apply to pedophiles? "

    So I will not answer the question, as it is a false question, asked with bad intent.

    Edit: to make it clear: trans people != pedophiles.
    You pretty much did answer the question, tbf: you pretend there is no conflict.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited February 2023

    (Sighs theatrically)

    By equating the two like that, you are trying to equate trans people and pedophiles. I wonder why you picked 'pedophiles' and not something like 'criminals' ?

    Would you ever say: "What rights do gay or straight people have that black/Asian people don’t? Does the same apply to pedophiles? "

    So I will not answer the question, as it is a false question, asked with bad intent.

    Edit: to make it clear: trans people != pedophiles.
    As ever ducking the question and casting aspersions. The pedophile point was that their “rights” are quite rightly circumscribed by society to protect the rights of others.

    When the rights of one group affect the rights of others what should we do?

    Shout “No Debate” or discuss it?

    But since you bring up criminals, is double rapist Isla Bryson a woman?
  • Just noticed @JennyGilruth has been quiet on the SNP leadership. Still another three days for MSPs to throw in their hats...

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1628065349487689728?s=20
  • dixiedean said:

    No.
    She's a member of an unusual sect which many Buddhists aren't easy with because they have no lineage whatsoever.
    They certainly aren't "hardline" in terms of one's personal beliefs.
    They are just a bit strange in that they can't come up with a coherent set of beliefs, and seem to operate off the shelf. Even to the extent that they aren't Hinayana or Mahayana. Which is pretty fundamental to the point of it.
    They have also been riven by a great number of sexual misconduct scandals.
    Nice enough folk, but a peculiar atmosphere.
    Myanmar? Imperial Japanese Army WW2?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    Leon said:

    “Growing sentiment among SNP MSPs and MPs that Kate Forbes should "pull out of the leadership race for the good of the party." Source tells me: "There is no realistic prospect of winning and her continued presence is distracting and damaging the independence cause."”

    https://twitter.com/alexofbrown/status/1628023489264332804?s=61&t=Piwa2wTZo9hjbQNUmVEthA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUpav2oWf1I
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The co-convenor of Out for Independence, the SNP's LGBTQ+ wing, has submitted a formal complaint to the party's National Secretary after Kate Forbes said that "a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

    https://twitter.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1628025219280523265?s=20

    That’s the way you do it. You don’t argue with what she has to say, you argue that she doesn’t have a right to say it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    I am channelling my inner @Sunil_Prasannan and riding the railway lines of North Lincolnshire.

    Just leaving Grimsby for the Lincoln line.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,674
    I really expected it would be Labour that would self destructed over blokes in dresses. Well done to the SNP for proving me wrong.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    ydoethur said:

    I am channelling my inner @Sunil_Prasannan and riding the railway lines of North Lincolnshire.

    Just leaving Grimsby for the Lincoln line.

    Are you doing a tour of the remaining Conservative constituencies after 2024?
    Or is the theme Adventures in Brexitland?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    ydoethur said:

    I am channelling my inner @Sunil_Prasannan and riding the railway lines of North Lincolnshire.

    Just leaving Grimsby for the Lincoln line.

    It's not the same without the semaphore signals at Barnetby.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Those that accept the financial pain and rebuild better will have a significant advantage over the one who try to tough it out. It will also mean a complete rethink of a great number of zoning laws.
    But you’re right, it’s going to be hard to sort out.
    The combo of American worship of cars, its disdain for public transport, its adoration of suburbs, its zoning laws, its tolerance of high crime/guns, the homelessness/drug issue, and so much more - PLUS the adoption of WFH = Death to many American downtowns west of Chicago. Maybe west of NYC

    It’s not obviously fixable

    The dense, urban, car-hostile European city is making a major return

    But it’s not just Europe. Bangkok or Phnom Penh are buzzing again in a way Denver or Frisco can only dream
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839

    Are you doing a tour of the remaining Conservative constituencies after 2024?
    Or is the theme Adventures in Brexitland?
    It’s always good to meet optimists who think there will still be Conservative constituencies after 2024.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    Sandpit said:

    That’s the way you do it. You don’t argue with what she has to say, you argue that she doesn’t have a right to say it.
    Strange. Making a complaint about something someone has said means you aren't arguing with it?

    Perhaps equally fairly one could characterise what you say as "You don't defend the comment that's being complained about, but prefer to portray the complaint against it as an attack on free speech".
  • Dear God!

    Ross is putting an ultimatum to the SNP membership.

    Vote Humza or we’ll not vote for them as FM.
    Embedded video


    https://twitter.com/scotfax/status/1628072041675988992?s=20

    While Ross Greer doesn’t endorse any specific candidate he does say whoever is elected should pursue GRR through the courts - only Humza has said he’d do that.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    Leon said:

    The combo of American worship of cars, its disdain for public transport, its adoration of suburbs, its zoning laws, its tolerance of high crime/guns, the homelessness/drug issue, and so much more - PLUS the adoption of WFH = Death to many American downtowns west of Chicago. Maybe west of NYC

    It’s not obviously fixable

    The dense, urban, car-hostile European city is making a major return

    But it’s not just Europe. Bangkok or Phnom Penh are buzzing again in a way Denver or Frisco can only dream
    Frisco is overshadowed by neighbouring Dallas and Fort Worth, of course :)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    As ever ducking the question and casting aspersions. The pedophile point was that their “rights” are quite rightly circumscribed by society to protect the rights of others.

    When the rights of one group affect the rights of others what should we do?

    Shout “No Debate” or discuss it?

    But since you bring up criminals, is double rapist Isla Bryson a woman?
    Why did you use 'pedophiles' in your question? What did you hope to achieve by using it?

    Pedophiles rights are constrained by society, because they are criminals. Trans people, as a group, are not criminals. Therefore equating the two is odd.

    As for rights being taken away: as far as I'm aware, you and others want to stop them using toilets whilst out in public, as they've done for as long as there have been public toilets. That's a rather fundamental 'right' taken away, again IMO.

    And we are discussing it., if you had not noticed. I am not in favour of "no debate": but if you come on here trying to insinuate that trans people are bad, then I'll 'debate' with you. Even if you laughably accuse me of 'mansplaining'.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    MaxPB said:

    I really expected it would be Labour that would self destructed over blokes in dresses. Well done to the SNP for proving me wrong.


    . .
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,664

    I’m not bullying her, or playing politics, I’m just arguing with her. She has all the same rubbish views that you have 😠

    At his trial, Thomas More accused them as going against a tried and tested religion that had stood for a thousand years. History. Tradition. And you would probably agree with him wouldn’t you? History. Tradition. Religion.

    But religion isn’t that. the true history of Christianity has been protest, politics, splits, violence, executions, torture, certainly every single year of its first thousand years in this world, if not many of the rest too.

    It has nothing at all to do with Forbes being a Christian. There are many Christian’s on this site alone who disagree with her.

    I would ask her, How can the reality of love and commitment only exist between a man and a women not same-sex couples too? How can believing the nonsense only a man and a woman can feel and know and honour that love and commitment, actually be the basis to build anything strong or good in this world?
    Obvs all my views are rubbish, but I am not sure which of them you are homing in on?

    BTW I don't agree with KF about a lot of things.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Sandpit said:

    No Six Nations team announcement from Wales - are they actually going to boycott the match?

    Gatland delayed naming the team because it is still up in the air but he made quite optimistic remarks so make of that what you will.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    Dear God!

    Ross is putting an ultimatum to the SNP membership.

    Vote Humza or we’ll not vote for them as FM.
    Embedded video


    https://twitter.com/scotfax/status/1628072041675988992?s=20

    While Ross Greer doesn’t endorse any specific candidate he does say whoever is elected should pursue GRR through the courts - only Humza has said he’d do that.

    The Greens are in no position to make demands
  • Kate Forbes interview:

    It is a "good question" why SNP cabinet colleagues have been surprised by her perspective on moral issues, Kate Forbes has told Holyrood….

    "People often have said that I'm quite open about my perspective on things, sometimes quite vocal.

    "If people think that I'm not who they thought I was, that's for them to answer. I have worked alongside them for six years."

    as SNP leader and First Minister, she would U-turn on dualling the A9 and review the Scottish Government's deposit return scheme and planned restrictions on alcohol advertising, which have prompted concern from businesses.

    Forbes said: "We need to dual the A9, we need to deliver our broadband objectives, we need to look at connectivity around our islands.


    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-snp-colleagues-should-not-have-been-surprised-by-my-views-on-samesex-marriage
  • As Tim Farron learned when you lead a socially liberal party you need to have socially liberal views.

    I get the feeling Kate Forbes would disapprove of my lifestyle on multiple levels.

    Imagine only having sex with somebody after you married them?

    What happens if they are shit at the sex?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,414
    As an SNP member for 48 years, my priorities when choosing a leader will be:
    1. Independence. It will need to be the highest priority of any candidate I choose. I will also expect them to stop pussyfooting around the issue can put maximum pressure on Westminster by all non violent means. We should be reaching out to other Independence parties, not repelling them.
    2. The Scottish economy. The economy needs revitalised. We should be maximising our oil and gas production to take full advantage of the Ukraine war. We should not be considering policies like the flawed bottle deposit scheme that will damage business, particularly small business, and lead to increased consumer prices and reduced choice. We should be ensuring that our energy exports are profitable to Scotland. If the above chases the Greens away, so much the better.
    3. Equality for all, not just for minorities.

    Only after all that will I think about moral views, which I believe should be personal. Such matters should always be a vote of conscience, not a whipped vote.

    I suspect that other SNP members will have similar views.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    The SNP needs to split. That’s it. Not splinter like Alba, but properly split into Forbes-ites and Sturgeon-ites, into right and left, traditional and low tax and progressive and high tax. They can still come together for Indy

    This painful idea that such disparate views of humanity can all be safely contained in the modest tent of Scotland-in-the-EU is now simply absurd

    Indy is a mature political view. It can and should be expressed through different parties who share one goal, at times
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613


    . .
    Whohe?
  • Why did you use 'pedophiles' in your question? What did you hope to achieve by using it?

    Pedophiles rights are constrained by society, because they are criminals. Trans people, as a group, are not criminals. Therefore equating the two is odd.

    As for rights being taken away: as far as I'm aware, you and others want to stop them using toilets whilst out in public, as they've done for as long as there have been public toilets. That's a rather fundamental 'right' taken away, again IMO.

    And we are discussing it., if you had not noticed. I am not in favour of "no debate": but if you come on here trying to insinuate that trans people are bad, then I'll 'debate' with you. Even if you laughably accuse me of 'mansplaining'.
    I’m not “equating the two” I’m trying to get you to understand that when groups rights collide there needs to be a discussion. You’re the one who obsesses about toilets. When have you ever acknowledged that trans rights might infringe on women’s rights?

    How about this for an issue:

    Until recently I would not have believed that the only people speaking up for girls who refuse to be subjected to sexual crimes (voyeurism and flashing) without complaint, and in what are supposed to be their own spaces, would be conservative Christians.…

    Standing up for girls' right to set and enforce their own boundaries is core feminist work. But America's mainstream feminist organisations have abdicated - and worse, colluded in the mass legalisation of sexual crimes against women and girls, in the name of "gender identity"


    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1627984694980538368?s=20

    Oh, and is double rapist Isla Bryson a woman?
  • Dear God!

    Ross is putting an ultimatum to the SNP membership.

    Vote Humza or we’ll not vote for them as FM.
    Embedded video


    https://twitter.com/scotfax/status/1628072041675988992?s=20

    While Ross Greer doesn’t endorse any specific candidate he does say whoever is elected should pursue GRR through the courts - only Humza has said he’d do that.

    Wondered how long it would be until the Greens raised their heads from the muesli. Thought it would be after the election though
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    As Tim Farron learned when you lead a socially liberal party you need to have socially liberal views.

    I get the feeling Kate Forbes would disapprove of my lifestyle on multiple levels.

    Imagine only having sex with somebody after you married them?

    What happens if they are shit at the sex?

    That’s when Spank The Monkey Lends A Hand
  • Leon said:

    The SNP needs to split. That’s it. Not splinter like Alba, but properly split into Forbes-ites and Sturgeon-ites, into right and left, traditional and low tax and progressive and high tax. They can still come together for Indy

    This painful idea that such disparate views of humanity can all be safely contained in the modest tent of Scotland-in-the-EU is now simply absurd

    Indy is a mature political view. It can and should be expressed through different parties who share one goal, at times

    And, as Vote Leave / Leave.EU showed, two movements wanting the same thing for different reasons can be a campaigning benefit.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    As Tim Farron learned when you lead a socially liberal party you need to have socially liberal views.

    I get the feeling Kate Forbes would disapprove of my lifestyle on multiple levels.

    Imagine only having sex with somebody after you married them?

    What happens if they are shit at the sex?

    Admittedly I'm not pretending to be an expert on such things but does sexual incompatibility really exist?

    It isn't a common view nowadays but she's perfectly entitled to it.
  • Sean_F said:

    The Greens are in no position to make demands
    Golly, your regular long-distance triggering by Sinn Féin is being rapidly overtaken by your edicts on what should or shouldn't be happening in Scotland for entertainment value. Big SNP branch round your bit is there?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    And, as Vote Leave / Leave.EU showed, two movements wanting the same thing for different reasons can be a campaigning benefit.
    There are also interesting consequences under the Holyrood electoral system, which was designed precisely to allow two not too far removed parties to cooperate and dominate, i.e. Slab and LDs.
  • Carnyx said:

    Whohe?
    Someone who has seen the latest polling;

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-two points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 28% (-)
    Lab 50% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (+1)
    Other 12% (-4)
    Fieldwork: 17th - 20th February
    Sample: 1,079 GB adults
    (Changes from 10th - 13th February 2023)


    https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1628073405697196032
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    And, as Vote Leave / Leave.EU showed, two movements wanting the same thing for different reasons can be a campaigning benefit.
    Yes, good analogy. A tag team

    Scottish Indy is a cause espoused by people across the political spectrum, who otherwise cordially detest each other’s opinions. That divide can no longer be bridged. It was only the powerful personalities of Salmond and Sturgeon that kept it all together
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838

    Only after all that will I think about moral views, which I believe should be personal. Such matters should always be a vote of conscience, not a whipped vote.

    I never really understand why the "conscience vote" is viewed as such an effective get-out clause for people like Kate Forbes.

    Doesn't a democrat believe precisely the opposite? That they won't vote to regulate other people's lives according to their own personal beliefs, but will vote according to the wishes of the people who elected them (whether on a matter of party policy, or otherwise on a matter about which they had made their opinion clear to the electors before they were elected)?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    And, as Vote Leave / Leave.EU showed, two movements wanting the same thing for different reasons can be a campaigning benefit.

    And if they win the result is a shitshow
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    Golly, your regular long-distance triggering by Sinn Féin is being rapidly overtaken by your edicts on what should or shouldn't be happening in Scotland for entertainment value. Big SNP branch round your bit is there?

    SG branch, I rather think ...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Chris said:

    I never really understand why the "conscience vote" is viewed as such an effective get-out clause for people like Kate Forbes.

    Doesn't a democrat believe precisely the opposite? That they won't vote to regulate other people's lives according to their own personal beliefs, but will vote according to the wishes of the people who elected them (whether on a matter of party policy, or otherwise on a matter about which they had made their opinion clear to the electors before they were elected)?
    Presumably the claim is that she does speak for her constituents, many of whom will agree with her prehistoric beliefs
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,764
    Leon said:

    The combo of American worship of cars, its disdain for public transport, its adoration of suburbs, its zoning laws, its tolerance of high crime/guns, the homelessness/drug issue, and so much more - PLUS the adoption of WFH = Death to many American downtowns west of Chicago. Maybe west of NYC

    It’s not obviously fixable

    The dense, urban, car-hostile European city is making a major return

    But it’s not just Europe. Bangkok or Phnom Penh are buzzing again in a way Denver or Frisco can only dream
    Imagine Soho without any cars. It's mad that haven't pedestrianised the whole area. They need to do the same with George Street in Edinburgh (there are long-term plans).

    Weirdly Glasgow and Inverness are ahead on this front.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,080
    edited February 2023
    Maybe Forbes needs to be brutally honest.

    If she does win, I guess people would tend to feel she was honest in taking Indy forward / discussing it

    Someone who has seen the latest polling;

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-two points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 28% (-)
    Lab 50% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (+1)
    Other 12% (-4)
    Fieldwork: 17th - 20th February
    Sample: 1,079 GB adults
    (Changes from 10th - 13th February 2023)


    https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1628073405697196032
    Meanwhile, back in Westminster, the ERG plotting to make things worse

    Seriously. Can that particular grouping head off and join UKIP

    The Tories has got decades of rebuilding after this. If it even exists
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137

    As Tim Farron learned when you lead a socially liberal party you need to have socially liberal views.

    I get the feeling Kate Forbes would disapprove of my lifestyle on multiple levels.

    Imagine only having sex with somebody after you married them?

    What happens if they are shit at the sex?

    The saving grace (if both partners had adhered to the no sex before marriage rule) is that they'd probably never know, given the lack of preivous experience with which to compare.
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64718823

    Asda and Morrisons limiting sales of fruit now. Probably a non story according to the pb Brexiteers though as the photo will probably be as out of date as much of the fruit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Scott_xP said:

    Presumably the claim is that she does speak for her constituents, many of whom will agree with her prehistoric beliefs
    She has a very good majority in the constituency vote. Highest in Holyrood, ISTR.
  • Selebian said:

    The saving grace (if both partners had adhered to the no sex before marriage rule) is that they'd probably never know, given the lack of preivous experience with which to compare.
    Of course they would if they were shit. Might not be able to tell average from good.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914
    Eabhal said:

    Imagine Soho without any cars. It's mad that haven't pedestrianised the whole area. They need to do the same with George Street in Edinburgh (there are long-term plans).

    Weirdly Glasgow and Inverness are ahead on this front.
    I would essentially pedestrianise all of central London. Only allow tiny electric vehicles/taxis, maybe at certain times. Make space for e-bikes and escooters. This is the future. Embrace it

    Camden market is nearly all pedestrian and is enormously popular, ditto most of covent garden
  • Breaking - huge news on nurses strikes. Both govt and RCN “agreed to enter a process of intensive talks. Both sides are committed to finding a fair and reasonable settlement.”
    Talks will discuss “pay, terms and conditions, and productivity enhancing reforms.” Strikes on hold.


    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1628081188861620236?s=20
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929
    Sean_F said:

    The Greens are in no position to make demands
    Why not? They are, sort of, a separate party.

    GGR was a red line condition for them when they agreed to go into Govt with SNP. The fact that Sturgeon agreed to it, is more fool her.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Eabhal said:

    Imagine Soho without any cars. It's mad that haven't pedestrianised the whole area. They need to do the same with George Street in Edinburgh (there are long-term plans).

    Weirdly Glasgow and Inverness are ahead on this front.
    TBF there is Rose Street which acts as a parallel route to George St, and at least one of the cross roads from Princes St. And the gardens to north and south also function as massive pedestrian areas. Though only one block of the High St is pedestrianised.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    Leon said:

    I would essentially pedestrianise all of central London. Only allow tiny electric vehicles/taxis, maybe at certain times. Make space for e-bikes and escooters. This is the future. Embrace it

    Camden market is nearly all pedestrian and is enormously popular, ditto most of covent garden
    And how do you propose that anyone delivers anything anywhere?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559

    Why not? They are, sort of, a separate party.

    GGR was a red line condition for them when they agreed to go into Govt with SNP. The fact that Sturgeon agreed to it, is more fool her.
    Democracy. The election was fought on the basis that a minority would mean that the Greens would prop up the SNP.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929
    Carnyx said:

    She has a very good majority in the constituency vote. Highest in Holyrood, ISTR.
    She is, personally, very popular and that boosts her vote. Even local Tories like her which is saying something.
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64718823

    Asda and Morrisons limiting sales of fruit now. Probably a non story according to the pb Brexiteers though as the photo will probably be as out of date as much of the fruit.

    From your link.

    The shortages - which are affecting Ireland too - are largely the result of extreme weather in Spain and north Africa, where floods, snow and hail have affected harvests....

    Industry sources said Brexit was unlikely to be a factor...
  • Why not? They are, sort of, a separate party.

    GGR was a red line condition for them when they agreed to go into Govt with SNP. The fact that Sturgeon agreed to it, is more fool her.
    GRR is part of both the SNP manifesto and the Bute House agreement with the Greens.

    Self-ID appears in neither.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    Scott_xP said:

    Presumably the claim is that she does speak for her constituents, many of whom will agree with her prehistoric beliefs
    If she had stood on that platform, fair enough. But today's news coverage has treated her statement that she would have voted against same-sex marriage as a revelation that has alienated some of her closest political supporters, which suggests that not even her allies among professional politicians were aware of her views, let alone the general public!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Is Ash Regan VALUE??

    Has to be , Forbes is in kamikaze mode and Humza Useless is just that. Only thing to worry is who counts the votes, if Murrell and pet NEC running it then I would not be betting on it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Yousaf said at his own launch that "I don't legislate on the basis of my faith", arguing that as a member of a minority group he knows his rights "don't exist in some kind of vacuum... My rights are interdependent on other people's rights... I'll always fight for the equal rights of others regardless of who they are."
    This seems to me exactly the right answer to the question that Forbes was asked, and I'm not sure that Yousaf really needs to say anything else on the subject.
    The same one who took a nursery to court as racist because they did not have a vacancy for his children and recently quietly dropped it as it was just garbage. Pull the other one it plays jingle bells.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,456
    Carnyx said:

    There are also interesting consequences under the Holyrood electoral system, which was designed precisely to allow two not too far removed parties to cooperate and dominate, i.e. Slab and LDs.
    Obviously Westminster FPTP strongly discourages an SNP split along those lines as they would lose loads of seats, but I wonder if something akin to the SDP/Liberal alliance for Westminster and separate parties for Holyrood might work.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    So what is so bad about Hamza? Any examples?

    Wrecked Justice , destroyed Health , has ruined every department he has been in,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsD7mKHlDM
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    Leon said:

    I would essentially pedestrianise all of central London. Only allow tiny electric vehicles/taxis, maybe at certain times. Make space for e-bikes and escooters. This is the future. Embrace it

    Camden market is nearly all pedestrian and is enormously popular, ditto most of covent garden
    I went to Zermatt last September. It's sold as this idealised place without cars, but actually, the bikes and electric utility vehicles are a menace and you have to be really careful not to get run over.
  • malcolmg said:

    Wrecked Justice , destroyed Health , has ruined every department he has been in,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsD7mKHlDM
    It was cos of racism / Scotland being too white or something.....
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378
    edited February 2023
    YouGov
    @YouGov
    Latest Scottish Westminster voting intention (17-20 February)

    SNP: 38% (-4 since 23-26 Jan*)
    Labour: 29% (=)
    Conservative: 19% (+4)
    Lib Dem: 6% (=)
    Green: 4% (+1)
    Reform UK: 2% (-1)
    Other: 2% (=)

    SNP vote share drops below 40%, but SLAB vote share remains unchanged. It should be mentioned, however, the fieldwork was conducted BEFORE Forbes' social conservative views came to light.

    Furthermore, there is a new R&W Red Wall poll.

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads by 28% in the Red Wall, enough to win ALL 40 of these seats in the next GE.

    Red Wall VI (19 Feb):

    Labour 55% (+3)
    Conservative 27% (-2)
    Reform UK 10% (+2)
    Lib Dem 4% (-1)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 5 Feb
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    malcolmg said:

    The same one who took a nursery to court as racist because they did not have a vacancy for his children and recently quietly dropped it as it was just garbage. Pull the other one it plays jingle bells.
    If you don't understand the difference between legislating and litigating, perhaps you need to go away and do a bit of research.
  • YouGov
    @YouGov
    Latest Scottish Westminster voting intention (17-20 February)

    SNP: 38% (-4 since 23-26 Jan*)
    Labour: 29% (=)
    Conservative: 19% (+4)
    Lib Dem: 6% (=)
    Green: 4% (+1)
    Reform UK: 2% (-1)
    Other: 2% (=)

    SNP vote share drops below 40%, but SLAB vote share remains unchanged. It should be mentioned, however, the fieldwork was conducted BEFORE Forbes' social conservative views came to light.

    Furthermore, there is a new R&W Red Wall poll.

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads by 28% in the Red Wall, enough to win ALL 40 of these seats in the next GE.

    Red Wall VI (19 Feb):

    Labour 55% (+3)
    Conservative 27% (-2)
    Reform UK 10% (+2)
    Lib Dem 4% (-1)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 5 Feb

    Well, there's a turn up for the books.
    The Starmer & Sarwar show not yet setting the heather ablaze.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,456
    tlg86 said:

    I went to Zermatt last September. It's sold as this idealised place without cars, but actually, the bikes and electric utility vehicles are a menace and you have to be really careful not to get run over.
    That’s where street design is helpful - ensures everything has to slow down including scooters.

    I think the residents-only rules in a lot of European city centres work fine. You need to keep a lookout for the odd scooter or old Clio but most of the time the space is open for pedestrians and cyclists. Cyclists also behave better in those environments than on roads.

    Then nice secure underground car parks entered via a little ramp on the edge of the market square at the edge of the centre for those who want to drive from the sticks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Sean_F said:



    She has surely fucked her campaign, as her very own campaign aide says (never a good sign in a campaign). However in the interests of diversity and equality I REALLY hope some journalist is going to ask the same questions of Humza Yousaf. He may well have some interesting answers, and it would never do to encourage the perception that Muslims are given an easier ride than Wee Free white Hebrideans

    Yousaf said at his own launch that "I don't legislate on the basis of my faith", arguing that as a member of a minority group he knows his rights "don't exist in some kind of vacuum... My rights are interdependent on other people's rights... I'll always fight for the equal rights of others regardless of who they are."
    This seems to me exactly the right answer to the question that Forbes was asked, and I'm not sure that Yousaf really needs to say anything else on the subject.

    Unfortunately, Yousaf is an arsehole.

    Not having followed any of it, why so?

    He drafted a hate crimes bill so badly that it was criticised by both religious organisations and the National Secular Society. He also wanted to make it illegal to express "hateful" views in one's own home.

    He and his wife first brought, than dropped, a legal actions against a nursery, alleging racial discrimination against their child.

    He also dodged the gay marriage vote after his community criticised him for intending to vote the wrong way.
  • malcolmg said:


    He also dodged the gay marriage vote after his community criticised him for intending to vote the wrong way.

    On 14 January 2014, the Equal Marriage Vote was entered into Humza Yousaf's ministerial diary for 4 February , by the Minister for Parliamentary Business.

    16 January 2014, Yousaf scheduled his "urgent" meeting with the Pakistani Consul General for 19 DAYS LATER to miss the vote.


    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1627977144314757122?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    FF43 said:

    The correct answer for Kate Forbes as a church-going aspiring leader of the SNP and Scottish government to the question, "Do you support gay marriage?" is, Yes. Unequivocally, yes. "Do you support gender recognition by self-identification?" Yes. In this case there may be some technical issues to resolve around implementation but the principle's accepted.

    These are SNP policies implemented by her government and passed in parliament. If she can't defend them she can't be leader. It's a necessary part of her job.
    Bollocks , gender recognition by self-identification is total and utter bollox.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    Myanmar? Imperial Japanese Army WW2?
    Yes. I agree.
    My point is that Braverman may have her personal views but she isn't a member of a hardline sect.
    If anything they are the most wishy-washy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited February 2023
    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks , gender recognition by self-identification is total and utter bollox.
    I think the bollocks is the issue for some....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Heathener said:

    So it turns out that Kate Forbes is an unreconstructed evangelical Christian with some particularly nasty views.

    Thinks it's wrong for children to be born out of wedlock (wtf?), opposes virtually all abortion, thinks no one can be trans, and opposes gay marriage.

    What a horrible woman. Hope to god, or even God, that the SNP aren't stupid enough to select her.

    https://news.sky.com/story/kate-forbes-says-her-faith-means-children-outside-of-marriage-is-wrong-12816429

    Away and bile your flask
  • ErlyErly Posts: 11
    Sean_F said:

    The Greens are in no position to make demands
    I thought they were. Presumably Greer is confident Humza will win.

    Greer seems very quick to say what's in his head. Hardly a desideratum in government or any other position of responsibility except maybe shock jock.

    Perhaps he's a cinch to wind up into a tizzy?

    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/ross-greer-put-place-after-29073436

    28 Jan 2023

    "The Scottish Green MSP vented his fury after a paper reported on bizarre and false reports that children at a primary school were identifying as cats.

    The Press and Journal featured a story with a council response to the bizarre claims about Banff Academy students meowing and defecting in feline litter boxes, but the MSP was quick to slate it."

    He accused the journalists of spreading "Qanon" style moral panic amidst heated debate about the presence of identity politics and gender ideology in Scotlands schools.

    A video appearing to show human waste on a toilet floor was shared alongside claims children were protesting over not having litter trays. The claims hit social media and 'spread like wild fire'.

    However, Aberdeenshire Council has branded the rumours as misinformation, stating: 'We are aware of false rumours circulating online suggesting that Banff Academy has pupils identifying as cats requesting litter trays in the Academy’s toilets.'
    "

    The P&J got the story from the National:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23276574.aberdeenshire-school-forced-deny-children-identifying-cats/

    The funny thing is that Greer is actually right! The furries in schools thing has been pushed by QAnoner Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/texas-gop-candidate-furries-schools/


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751

    Well, there's a turn up for the books.
    The Starmer & Sarwar show not yet setting the heather ablaze.
    My expectation would be that the change will have been driven by women unimpressed with Nicola's GRR Bill and its implications for their rights and freedoms. As the Tories have been the only party to oppose these (with minimal exceptions) and have blocked the bill by s35 they have got the credit. Or it might just be a somewhat louder than usual noise.

    If it isn't it has implications for the leadership race. Yousaf seems fully on board the Sturgeon express with this one explaining how outrageous the s35 order is and would clearly support a judicial review of the decision. Forbes, equally clearly, wouldn't and would be delighted to park this issue somewhere quiet. If Forbes prevails the Tory gain may prove very short lived but I suspect that is only the start of their problems.

    Forbes is the Scottish Tories' worst nightmare: she will attract a lot of tartan Tories who were fed up of Nicolas eccentric combination of socialism and statism. If Forbes wins I think no Scottish Tory seats becomes a real possibility. Which might, of course, prove to be a highly Pyrrhic victory if SLAB recovers and takes back a chunk of seats in the central belt.

    Useless Yousaf, in contrast, might well allow a serious Scottish Tory recovery back to the giddy heights of Ruth Davidson's peak but might make things a little more difficult for SLAB.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Carnyx said:

    You're missing out another election. That for FM of the MSPs in the Holyrood Parliament. Just because she or anyone becomes SNP leader doesn't make them FM, as I have said before but bears repeating. It's not Westminster where the opposition has to actively move against the new PM.
    Yes the weirdo greens could stiff them , they will want paid in gold for sure.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited February 2023
    Erly said:

    I thought they were. Presumably Greer is confident Humza will win.

    Greer seems very quick to say what's in his head. Hardly a desideratum in government or any other position of responsibility except maybe shock jock.

    Perhaps he's a cinch to wind up into a tizzy?

    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/ross-greer-put-place-after-29073436

    28 Jan 2023

    "The Scottish Green MSP vented his fury after a paper reported on bizarre and false reports that children at a primary school were identifying as cats.

    The Press and Journal featured a story with a council response to the bizarre claims about Banff Academy students meowing and defecting in feline litter boxes, but the MSP was quick to slate it."

    He accused the journalists of spreading "Qanon" style moral panic amidst heated debate about the presence of identity politics and gender ideology in Scotlands schools.

    A video appearing to show human waste on a toilet floor was shared alongside claims children were protesting over not having litter trays. The claims hit social media and 'spread like wild fire'.

    However, Aberdeenshire Council has branded the rumours as misinformation, stating: 'We are aware of false rumours circulating online suggesting that Banff Academy has pupils identifying as cats requesting litter trays in the Academy’s toilets.'
    "

    The P&J got the story from the National:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23276574.aberdeenshire-school-forced-deny-children-identifying-cats/

    The funny thing is that Greer is actually right! The furries in schools thing has been pushed by QAnoner Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/texas-gop-candidate-furries-schools/


    Central Belt Lefties and furries: instant mental image of Mr Galloway.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Either candidate for the SNP looks a big step down.

    Starmer majority seems to be growing by the day. And I wonder if Labour will now reclaim its 2010 levels in Scotland. Starmer would be the first PM of GB for many years

    Only if you are a thick southern clueless twat
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    malcolmg said:

    Yes the weirdo greens could stiff them , they will want paid in gold for sure.
    Indeed. I|f I were betting, I'd want to check the details. FM or SNP Leader? Not the same thing at all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    DavidL said:

    My expectation would be that the change will have been driven by women unimpressed with Nicola's GRR Bill and its implications for their rights and freedoms. As the Tories have been the only party to oppose these (with minimal exceptions) and have blocked the bill by s35 they have got the credit. Or it might just be a somewhat louder than usual noise.

    If it isn't it has implications for the leadership race. Yousaf seems fully on board the Sturgeon express with this one explaining how outrageous the s35 order is and would clearly support a judicial review of the decision. Forbes, equally clearly, wouldn't and would be delighted to park this issue somewhere quiet. If Forbes prevails the Tory gain may prove very short lived but I suspect that is only the start of their problems.

    Forbes is the Scottish Tories' worst nightmare: she will attract a lot of tartan Tories who were fed up of Nicolas eccentric combination of socialism and statism. If Forbes wins I think no Scottish Tory seats becomes a real possibility. Which might, of course, prove to be a highly Pyrrhic victory if SLAB recovers and takes back a chunk of seats in the central belt.

    Useless Yousaf, in contrast, might well allow a serious Scottish Tory recovery back to the giddy heights of Ruth Davidson's peak but might make things a little more difficult for SLAB.
    Mm, interesting.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    Erly said:

    I thought they were. Presumably Greer is confident Humza will win.

    Greer seems very quick to say what's in his head. Hardly a desideratum in government or any other position of responsibility except maybe shock jock.

    Perhaps he's a cinch to wind up into a tizzy?

    https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/ross-greer-put-place-after-29073436

    28 Jan 2023

    "The Scottish Green MSP vented his fury after a paper reported on bizarre and false reports that children at a primary school were identifying as cats.

    The Press and Journal featured a story with a council response to the bizarre claims about Banff Academy students meowing and defecting in feline litter boxes, but the MSP was quick to slate it."

    He accused the journalists of spreading "Qanon" style moral panic amidst heated debate about the presence of identity politics and gender ideology in Scotlands schools.

    A video appearing to show human waste on a toilet floor was shared alongside claims children were protesting over not having litter trays. The claims hit social media and 'spread like wild fire'.

    However, Aberdeenshire Council has branded the rumours as misinformation, stating: 'We are aware of false rumours circulating online suggesting that Banff Academy has pupils identifying as cats requesting litter trays in the Academy’s toilets.'
    "

    The P&J got the story from the National:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23276574.aberdeenshire-school-forced-deny-children-identifying-cats/

    The funny thing is that Greer is actually right! The furries in schools thing has been pushed by QAnoner Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/texas-gop-candidate-furries-schools/


    When my son was in Primary school he, and several of his friends, self identified as space rockets. The scamps.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Heathener said:

    Yeah but this has actually helped trans rights.

    It's shown the vitriol against trans people for what it is: the same bigotry against gays, blacks, unmarried etc which has been the hallmark of such nastiness for decades.

    In 20, 30, and 40 years time trans people will be enjoying the same rights as many gays do now and the last remaining rump of bigoted old white men will be searching around for another victim on whom to pour out their bile as they rail against the dying of the light.

    Totally barking as ever , pass the sick buckets
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    The co-convenor of Out for Independence, the SNP's LGBTQ+ wing, has submitted a formal complaint to the party's National Secretary after Kate Forbes said that "a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

    https://twitter.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1628025219280523265?s=20

    The witch's coven have it in for her big time, the clowns don't even know what a woman is either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281

    YouGov
    @YouGov
    Latest Scottish Westminster voting intention (17-20 February)

    SNP: 38% (-4 since 23-26 Jan*)
    Labour: 29% (=)
    Conservative: 19% (+4)
    Lib Dem: 6% (=)
    Green: 4% (+1)
    Reform UK: 2% (-1)
    Other: 2% (=)

    SNP vote share drops below 40%, but SLAB vote share remains unchanged. It should be mentioned, however, the fieldwork was conducted BEFORE Forbes' social conservative views came to light.

    Furthermore, there is a new R&W Red Wall poll.

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour leads by 28% in the Red Wall, enough to win ALL 40 of these seats in the next GE.

    Red Wall VI (19 Feb):

    Labour 55% (+3)
    Conservative 27% (-2)
    Reform UK 10% (+2)
    Lib Dem 4% (-1)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 5 Feb

    Swing 0.5% SNP to SCon there and 8.5% SNP to SLab
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Driver said:

    You pretty much did answer the question, tbf: you pretend there is no conflict.
    knock out in round 2 to Carlotta, towel has been thrown in
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUpav2oWf1I
    Only the weirdo Sturgeon coven there though and given they don't want independence who cares a jot what the losers say.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,199
    edited February 2023

    Maybe Forbes needs to be brutally honest.

    If she does win, I guess people would tend to feel she was honest in taking Indy forward / discussing it

    Meanwhile, back in Westminster, the ERG plotting to make things worse

    Seriously. Can that particular grouping head off and join UKIP

    The Tories has got decades of rebuilding after this. If it even exists
    Oh look, more utterly hilarious blaming of Tory back bench groups (add them to Tory members, Liz Truss writing articles, and Boris) for the Tories' current woes. If only people weren't so taken up with these loathsome specimens, they'd no doubt realise what a great job Rishi Sunak is doing on... on... well, but he's doing OK on... Oh.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Dear God!

    Ross is putting an ultimatum to the SNP membership.

    Vote Humza or we’ll not vote for them as FM.
    Embedded video


    https://twitter.com/scotfax/status/1628072041675988992?s=20

    While Ross Greer doesn’t endorse any specific candidate he does say whoever is elected should pursue GRR through the courts - only Humza has said he’d do that.

    Another weirdo
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    As an SNP member for 48 years, my priorities when choosing a leader will be:
    1. Independence. It will need to be the highest priority of any candidate I choose. I will also expect them to stop pussyfooting around the issue can put maximum pressure on Westminster by all non violent means. We should be reaching out to other Independence parties, not repelling them.
    2. The Scottish economy. The economy needs revitalised. We should be maximising our oil and gas production to take full advantage of the Ukraine war. We should not be considering policies like the flawed bottle deposit scheme that will damage business, particularly small business, and lead to increased consumer prices and reduced choice. We should be ensuring that our energy exports are profitable to Scotland. If the above chases the Greens away, so much the better.
    3. Equality for all, not just for minorities.

    Only after all that will I think about moral views, which I believe should be personal. Such matters should always be a vote of conscience, not a whipped vote.

    I suspect that other SNP members will have similar views.

    You have only one choice then Fairlie, very simple.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929
    DavidL said:

    My expectation would be that the change will have been driven by women unimpressed with Nicola's GRR Bill and its implications for their rights and freedoms. As the Tories have been the only party to oppose these (with minimal exceptions) and have blocked the bill by s35 they have got the credit. Or it might just be a somewhat louder than usual noise.

    If it isn't it has implications for the leadership race. Yousaf seems fully on board the Sturgeon express with this one explaining how outrageous the s35 order is and would clearly support a judicial review of the decision. Forbes, equally clearly, wouldn't and would be delighted to park this issue somewhere quiet. If Forbes prevails the Tory gain may prove very short lived but I suspect that is only the start of their problems.

    Forbes is the Scottish Tories' worst nightmare: she will attract a lot of tartan Tories who were fed up of Nicolas eccentric combination of socialism and statism. If Forbes wins I think no Scottish Tory seats becomes a real possibility. Which might, of course, prove to be a highly Pyrrhic victory if SLAB recovers and takes back a chunk of seats in the central belt.

    Useless Yousaf, in contrast, might well allow a serious Scottish Tory recovery back to the giddy heights of Ruth Davidson's peak but might make things a little more difficult for SLAB.
    While I imagine the Tories will be praying for a Yousaf victory I find it hard to believe that a significant number of Scots Tory voters would defect to an SNP led by Forbes. The one thing that distinguishes Tory voters in Scotland is attachment to the Union.

    BTW - 19% for the Tories seems v high in the circs. They'll be pleased with that if its anywhere near accurate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,299
    Well I'm back visiting the folks and I've just scored a half of bitter for £1.23. Red Wall rules ok!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,157
    malcolmg said:

    Bollocks , gender recognition by self-identification is total and utter bollox.
    Is Kate Forbes the only man in Scottish politics?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,199
    FF43 said:

    The correct answer for Kate Forbes as a church-going aspiring leader of the SNP and Scottish government to the question, "Do you support gay marriage?" is, Yes. Unequivocally, yes. "Do you support gender recognition by self-identification?" Yes. In this case there may be some technical issues to resolve around implementation but the principle's accepted.

    These are SNP policies implemented by her government and passed in parliament. If she can't defend them she can't be leader. It's a necessary part of her job.

    What a silly post. That suggests that Churchill should have been aligned fully with Chamberlain's appeasement policy when he took office. Different leader, different opinions.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Chris said:

    If you don't understand the difference between legislating and litigating, perhaps you need to go away and do a bit of research.
    What are you talking about you half witted dullard. I pointed out teh arsehole tried to ruin a nursery , run by muslims, by claiming they were racist because they did not allow his children in, then had to climb down as it was a ludicruous attempt and had no merit.
    Why in your thick pea brained skull you get that as legislation god knows.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751

    While I imagine the Tories will be praying for a Yousaf victory I find it hard to believe that a significant number of Scots Tory voters would defect to an SNP led by Forbes. The one thing that distinguishes Tory voters in Scotland is attachment to the Union.

    BTW - 19% for the Tories seems v high in the circs. They'll be pleased with that if its anywhere near accurate.
    It would certainly keep people like me on board, as the Union is the most important thing to me. But it wouldn't take many Conservative voters in the remaining seats to change for those seats to fall. I think she would get more than enough.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,199
    malcolmg said:

    You have only one choice then Fairlie, very simple.
    Minus indy, I would vote for the Fairlie party.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    edited February 2023

    I’m not “equating the two” I’m trying to get you to understand that when groups rights collide there needs to be a discussion. You’re the one who obsesses about toilets. When have you ever acknowledged that trans rights might infringe on women’s rights?

    How about this for an issue:

    Until recently I would not have believed that the only people speaking up for girls who refuse to be subjected to sexual crimes (voyeurism and flashing) without complaint, and in what are supposed to be their own spaces, would be conservative Christians.…

    Standing up for girls' right to set and enforce their own boundaries is core feminist work. But America's mainstream feminist organisations have abdicated - and worse, colluded in the mass legalisation of sexual crimes against women and girls, in the name of "gender identity"


    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1627984694980538368?s=20

    Oh, and is double rapist Isla Bryson a woman?
    Oh, come off it. Sadly, you equate trans people with pedophiles. In a similar manner, one might equate TERFs with murderers. But I think that might annoy you.

    I am not 'obsessing about toilets'. It's a clear and simple example of where your viewpoint falls into dangerous ground: as sadly shown by Ms Free of this parish. It is unworkable, which is why anti-trans people get into such trouble with it.

    Trans rights may infringe on women's rights; but women's rights might infringe on trans rights. That's the whole point. It's a balance. And speaking for my own views, I'm not wholly on one side. In sports, for example, I'm happy for transwomen to be banned from women's competition, but only with good reason, and the default should be inclusion. That's probably not a million miles away from your view.

    Mrs J is a feminist. She comes from a country where women's rights were, and still are, much more restricted than over here. She even lived in Iran for a while when young, post-revolution. Yet her views are more pro-trans than mine, and I fear a million miles away from yours.

    I know you're well meaning with this; it's just that your one-eyed views spells real danger for a small segment of society.
This discussion has been closed.