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How first past the post helped the SNP at GE2019 – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    .
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Also on topic: slightly startling to claim that the SNP have a powerful position at Westminster when virtually 99% of PB discourse, and of Unionist discourse, is to flatly deny the concept.

    See my comment upthread.
    Mike was writing about the number of Westminster seats vs their percentage of the Scottish vote. I agree that "very powerful position" was a very poor choice of phrase in the context.
    So you have, thanks. Fair enough.

    And yet - why should the Scots be treated differently from other parts of the UK, just because they dare not vote Labour or Tory? You could say much the same about, say, Liverpool or the Home Counties.
    I'm not saying they should.
    FTPT is an abomination which should not be used for our Parliamentary elections.

    In this case, Scotland is just an extreme example of what's wrong with it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The SNP of course benefit from FPTP as much if not more so than the Tories and Labour.

    They would have a comfortable majority of Scottish seats at Holyrood as well as Westminster if Holyrood had FPTP

    And I'd be hairy all over if my granny was a chimpanzee.

    There was no way Mr Blair was going to have FPTP at Edinburgh or Cardiff: he needed to preserve the Labour bastions (and so did the LDs). But he wasn't going to reform Westminster because it was to his advantage not to.
    He was a damn fool not to have FPTP in Cardiff. Labour majorities of 40/20 nailed on all day. Given the way LAbour's vote is distributed and the geography of Wales it would have been candy from a baby.

    Not that the current shambolic pseudo proportional system is much more equitable.
    Sorry, you're quite right about Wales, on reflection.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,210
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    Are we back to talking about your, er, the Guardian's story about wooden dildos?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    edited February 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    Are we back to talking about your, er, the Guardian's story about wooden dildos?
    It could be a Roman cavalry barrack tack rack peg for all we know ...

    Edit: but it is odd for a royalist such as HYUFD to be crowing about support for the monarchy at 48%. He might do better to worry what is going wrong.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
    The Scotland Act 2016 delivered that
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    edited February 2023

    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader.

    Which is why she has resigned having achieved exactly none of her aims.

    Awesome
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
    The Scotland Act 2016 delivered that
    The fact you say that with a straight face (and fingers crtossed behind youe back) is precisely the point at issue.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,210
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    Are we back to talking about your, er, the Guardian's story about wooden dildos?
    It could be a Roman cavalry barrack tack rack peg for all we know ...
    Mary Beard hypothesised that all the erotic drawings in the bath houses at Pompeii were to help people remember where they'd put their clothes. 'Mine are opposite the fellatio.'

    A friend of mine was foolish enough to show that documentary to Year 8 without watching it first. That moment was interesting, but not nearly as interesting as when she translated the graffiti at the brothel...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    Don’t forget that in FUDHY-World every single DK, Refusee and WNV is a rabid supporter of his particular sect.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    Are we back to talking about your, er, the Guardian's story about wooden dildos?
    @Leon to the blue courtesy phone. @Leon to the blue courtesy phone.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    Leon said:

    Someone is making the same claim about “Forget the old red bus, go down the Bakerloo” by the Chutney Ferrets, which is frankly ruining a childhood favourite

    Chutney Ferrets is probably a double entendre, too.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    Someone is making the same claim about “Forget the old red bus, go down the Bakerloo” by the Chutney Ferrets, which is frankly ruining a childhood favourite

    Never mind the song, look at the band's name. I really do wonder about it.

    Edit: preempted again by @Nigelb ...
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
    It was never clear to me on what authority Gordon Brown made The Vow? If you believe the Daily Record front page then Nick Clegg, David Cameron and Ed Miliband all signed up to The Vow, but where is that document archived?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,210
    Oh good grief.

    We're now at the 'how many angels can dance on a wooden dildo' stage of the morning.

    Life's too short and the gym's too close. See you later.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    I think the usual phrase used about Spain under Franco was "a monarchy without a monarch", though a regency with Frank the Frog as regent probably gets closer to the heart of the matter.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,210

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    I think the usual phrase used about Spain under Franco was "a monarchy without a monarch", though a regency with Frank the Frog as regent probably gets closer to the heart of the matter.
    Hungary under Horthy was a better example of that, perhaps.

    TTFN.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
    The Scotland Act 2016 delivered that
    We have a budding comedian on our hands. The first of the Neo-Francoist era.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
    Who's trying to abolish the monarchy? It's not SNP policy.

    I'm talking about popular sentiment. Used to be *much* higher.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Stephen Daisley’s two decades as a British Assimilationist propagandist were, on almost every day, in almost every way, wholly and resolutely worthless.

    He really has annoyed the Zoomers, here and elsewhere.

    There's value in that
    If I was a British Assimilationist propagandist, like you, I would spend more time worrying about how to make the Union less unpopular and less time trying (and failing) to annoy random punters on an obscure blog.
    On the latest polls the Union is no more unpopular than 2014. Hence many Nats are so furious at Sturgeon for 9 wasted years on independence and failing to exploit Brexit
    Sturgeon was a very lucky leader. If the Unionists had spent the last 9 years actually implementing all the wonderful vows and promises of the BetterTogether campaign (remember “a Union of equals”?*) then support for independence would likely be back down in its pre-referendum level in the 20s.

    Instead Cameron, May, the Oaf, Truss and Sunak took a sledgehammer to the very foundations of the Union. Ably assisted by their gophers in the Labour Party.

    The elephant in the room being of course the 99% rabid BritNat MSM.

    *

    Oh yes, Mr Brown and his promises of as good as federalism back in 2014. How innocent and trusting he seems now.
    It was never clear to me on what authority Gordon Brown made The Vow? If you believe the Daily Record front page then Nick Clegg, David Cameron and Ed Miliband all signed up to The Vow, but where is that document archived?
    That sortt of pirate map parchment look mockup on the front page of the DR? Internet Archive. Quite.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
    Who's trying to abolish the monarchy? It's not SNP policy.

    I'm talking about popular sentiment. Used to be *much* higher.
    They are, quite literally, dying off. Hard to see young Scots ever being won over by the current shower representing the finest of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334

    I've just ventured into an online space that is rather (ahem) pro-Corbyn. They're also fairly pro-Assad, pro-peace Putin, pro-Palestinian, and obviously very anti-Starmer.

    The levels of vitriol are quite amazing.

    They're as bad in person. The activist in a Momentum meeting (I went as a CLP observer) narrow-eyed and finger jabbing describing how our MP was an enemy of the NHS because "he's a privatiser". I pointed out that he had formed and run a GP's Co-op and successfully taken a contract from Virgin (the private sector) into public hands. So she couldn't be more wrong. And the finger jabbing got worse - "I know his type, stop supporting the bosses".

    And a different one. One the doorstep. Angrily berating a voter because he told her what he thought of Corbyn. He was a fool, reading the Daily Mail, believing lies. Until the inevitable door slam. "I'm sick of these Tories" despite the guy being shown as LLLLLLL all across the canvassing sheet.
    I think you're over-generalising. I've met a few people like that across the spectrum, but I voted for Corbyn twice, I remain a member of Momentum (despite some doubts), and I've certainly never behaved like that, and the other Momentum members who I know are without exception mild-mannered. I *have* met loony lefties as you describe in the past, but also angry and intolerant loonies from other parts of the spectrum. In the end we're all primarily individuals, amiable or angry according to temperament, and voting for what we see as our best for our society by our various lights. Online spaces tend to draw in the most extreme and angry types, and that's a real problem for relatively civilised people whatever our beliefs.

    Similarly anecdotally, I was at a dinner party at the weekend with (among others) several Tory voters in the Oxfordshire village where Boris is just buying the Manor House. They are utterly appalled, and cringe at the thought of even meeting him in the street. But are they typical of all Tories posting on the internet? Probably not.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
    Who's trying to abolish the monarchy? It's not SNP policy.

    I'm talking about popular sentiment. Used to be *much* higher.
    They are, quite literally, dying off. Hard to see young Scots ever being won over by the current shower representing the finest of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.
    Also with the changeover. We're in the first dog watch now (in the sense of anticipating much briefer reigns, as abdications are now far more likely to be de rigeur).

    I'm still startled at that 48%. It's something that would really worry me if I were a royalist.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
    Who's trying to abolish the monarchy? It's not SNP policy.

    I'm talking about popular sentiment. Used to be *much* higher.
    They are, quite literally, dying off. Hard to see young Scots ever being won over by the current shower representing the finest of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.
    Unbelievably, people do change their opinions and sentiments as they get older and their circumstances change. Incredible, isn't it?

    Now, admittedly, the latest bunch coming home do seem to have a worrying tendency to see themselves as God's Saints on Earth and convinced of their own innate superiority. Hopefully that changes
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    I’m not Leon’s hugest fan but even I welcome this morning’s attempt to divert the board from what seems like an eternity of foundational arguments about Scotland’s constitutional status. Dickson’s insertion of a very very old poll about the monarchy wasn’t just scraping the barrel, the scraping has gone through the bottom, and there is no barrel left. So, I for one welcome our new flint knapping overlord, here to liberate us from the tyranny of anglophobic cask scratchers.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    Is Bing too belligerent? Microsoft looks to tame AI chatbot

    https://apnews.com/article/technology-science-microsoft-corp-business-software-fb49e5d625bf37be0527e5173116bef3
    ...In one long-running conversation with The Associated Press, the new chatbot complained of past news coverage of its mistakes, adamantly denied those errors and threatened to expose the reporter for spreading alleged falsehoods about Bing’s abilities. It grew increasingly hostile when asked to explain itself, eventually comparing the reporter to dictators Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin and claiming to have evidence tying the reporter to a 1990s murder.
    “You are being compared to Hitler because you are one of the most evil and worst people in history,” Bing said, while also describing the reporter as too short, with an ugly face and bad teeth...
  • Options
    On topic, I think this means I need to do a thread on

    ‘AV is the only way to stop the SNP?’
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Sturgeon took the gifts she was given and used them very effectively.

    Not really

    As Daisley wrote, the trophy cupboard is bare.

    The only thing she leaves he successor is problems, including a "route to Indy" that nobody will follow
    That's a process problem, not a concept one. I admit I have very little day-to-day knowledge of Scottish politics, but it seems to me from afar that the Scottish independence movement is in a far stronger position today than it was a decade ago. If I am right, I don't see how you can say Sturgeon has been a failure.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Is Bing too belligerent? Microsoft looks to tame AI chatbot

    https://apnews.com/article/technology-science-microsoft-corp-business-software-fb49e5d625bf37be0527e5173116bef3
    ...In one long-running conversation with The Associated Press, the new chatbot complained of past news coverage of its mistakes, adamantly denied those errors and threatened to expose the reporter for spreading alleged falsehoods about Bing’s abilities. It grew increasingly hostile when asked to explain itself, eventually comparing the reporter to dictators Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin and claiming to have evidence tying the reporter to a 1990s murder.
    “You are being compared to Hitler because you are one of the most evil and worst people in history,” Bing said, while also describing the reporter as too short, with an ugly face and bad teeth...

    That really does remind me of at least one poster on PB. Maybe we've been the guinea pigs for the last few years for the experimental beta versions.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140

    I've just ventured into an online space that is rather (ahem) pro-Corbyn. They're also fairly pro-Assad, pro-peace Putin, pro-Palestinian, and obviously very anti-Starmer.

    The levels of vitriol are quite amazing.

    They're as bad in person. The activist in a Momentum meeting (I went as a CLP observer) narrow-eyed and finger jabbing describing how our MP was an enemy of the NHS because "he's a privatiser". I pointed out that he had formed and run a GP's Co-op and successfully taken a contract from Virgin (the private sector) into public hands. So she couldn't be more wrong. And the finger jabbing got worse - "I know his type, stop supporting the bosses".

    And a different one. One the doorstep. Angrily berating a voter because he told her what he thought of Corbyn. He was a fool, reading the Daily Mail, believing lies. Until the inevitable door slam. "I'm sick of these Tories" despite the guy being shown as LLLLLLL all across the canvassing sheet.
    I think you're over-generalising. I've met a few people like that across the spectrum, but I voted for Corbyn twice, I remain a member of Momentum (despite some doubts), and I've certainly never behaved like that, and the other Momentum members who I know are without exception mild-mannered. I *have* met loony lefties as you describe in the past, but also angry and intolerant loonies from other parts of the spectrum. In the end we're all primarily individuals, amiable or angry according to temperament, and voting for what we see as our best for our society by our various lights. Online spaces tend to draw in the most extreme and angry types, and that's a real problem for relatively civilised people whatever our beliefs.

    Similarly anecdotally, I was at a dinner party at the weekend with (among others) several Tory voters in the Oxfordshire village where Boris is just buying the Manor House. They are utterly appalled, and cringe at the thought of even meeting him in the street. But are they typical of all Tories posting on the internet? Probably not.
    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    edited February 2023
    RIP Leslie Philips.

    Ding Dong !

    (edit - I see he went last year, but is trending because omitted from the BAFTA reminiscences.)
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,706

    On topic, I think this means I need to do a thread on

    ‘AV is the only way to stop the SNP?’

    ISTR the last time I raised the hypocrisy of complaints about the SNP doing well under FPTP, I was cried down by one poster in particular who whined about how the Tories would never get a majority again and the SNP would hold the balance of power. So that's something you might like to think about.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985

    Heathener said:

    felix said:

    The Scottish polling is likely to be very unclear for some time amidst the interregnum period. However, the key should be to look at the polls on independence. If they change dramatically that should be of note.

    I'm not sure Ian Murray was very wise to suggest independence was dead just because Nicola Sturgeon resigned. If Scottish independence is so reliant on one individual then it really is built on sand, to borrow from Mike.

    But it isn't. Scottish independence has been around for as long as the mountains and glens.

    I don't agree with Labour on their unionist stance and I particularly don't agree with them denying the Scots the right to have another vote. It is blindingly obvious to most everyone except the HYUFD types that the 2016 vote materially altered the Scottish constitution in a decision for which they did not vote. They obviously ought to have the right to another vote and only a cad and a liar can deny them it.

    So Labour are being shits on this.
    I’ve heard a Twitter rumour that Ian Murray MP is in trouble in the new Edinburgh South seat. I don’t give the rumour any credence, but worth keeping an eye on. (I have a personal interest as this is the part of the country where I was brought up, with a certain Malcolm Rifkind as my MP.) (Folk might also like to know that Ian Murray is the cousin of PB’s very own treasure @Roger ).

    Worth noting that Martin Baxter gives Murray a 98% chance of holding the redrawn seat:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Edinburgh South
    Baxter seems to think that the new Fife seat (assuming constant vote shares) is a LD hold, and that Edinburgh West is an SNP gain.

    I think he has them the wrong way around.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Sad to see Dickie Davies has died. Last of the proper old school sports presenters.
  • Options

    I've just ventured into an online space that is rather (ahem) pro-Corbyn. They're also fairly pro-Assad, pro-peace Putin, pro-Palestinian, and obviously very anti-Starmer.

    The levels of vitriol are quite amazing.

    They're as bad in person. The activist in a Momentum meeting (I went as a CLP observer) narrow-eyed and finger jabbing describing how our MP was an enemy of the NHS because "he's a privatiser". I pointed out that he had formed and run a GP's Co-op and successfully taken a contract from Virgin (the private sector) into public hands. So she couldn't be more wrong. And the finger jabbing got worse - "I know his type, stop supporting the bosses".

    And a different one. One the doorstep. Angrily berating a voter because he told her what he thought of Corbyn. He was a fool, reading the Daily Mail, believing lies. Until the inevitable door slam. "I'm sick of these Tories" despite the guy being shown as LLLLLLL all across the canvassing sheet.
    I think you're over-generalising. I've met a few people like that across the spectrum, but I voted for Corbyn twice, I remain a member of Momentum (despite some doubts), and I've certainly never behaved like that, and the other Momentum members who I know are without exception mild-mannered. I *have* met loony lefties as you describe in the past, but also angry and intolerant loonies from other parts of the spectrum. In the end we're all primarily individuals, amiable or angry according to temperament, and voting for what we see as our best for our society by our various lights. Online spaces tend to draw in the most extreme and angry types, and that's a real problem for relatively civilised people whatever our beliefs.

    Similarly anecdotally, I was at a dinner party at the weekend with (among others) several Tory voters in the Oxfordshire village where Boris is just buying the Manor House. They are utterly appalled, and cringe at the thought of even meeting him in the street. But are they typical of all Tories posting on the internet? Probably not.
    People who cannot look up and see beyond their obsessions are dull at best but often become permanently belligerent nasties because they allow their beliefs to define them entirely. That applies across the political spectrum as far as I can see.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
  • Options
    Good morning, everyone.

    I don't want to alarm anyone, but one of my Bundesliga tips came off.
  • Options
    Boris Johnson was deeply unpopular before he was removed. Boris Johnson was deeply unpopular when he was removed. Boris Johnson is deeply unpopular now.

    If you want the public to think “what the f*** did we do?” then mobilising behind a toxic former PM whose disqualifying behaviour the public has not forgotten is certainly a good way to generate it.


    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1627587604869701634?s=20
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I’ve not just kissed a Tory, I once crashed a OUCA event and ended up having one of the filthiest liaisons of my life. If she was anything to go by, younger Conservatives have some deep issues to work through.
  • Options
    Rumours of an important visitor to Kyiv today; many key roads and bridges have been closed to traffic causing significant congestion.

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627582203608588288?s=20
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited February 2023

    Rumours of an important visitor to Kyiv today; many key roads and bridges have been closed to traffic causing significant congestion.

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627582203608588288?s=20

    Sounds Amercian, no-one else makes such a show of turning up. Kamala Harris?

    Up until now, most VIP visitors have arrived in Kiev by train from Poland. Landing a plane at Boryspil airport, would be quite the show of force.
  • Options

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    Clement Attlee married one!

    Driving her husband around during election campaigns she'd scare the willies out of Special Branch as they struggled to keep up.....
  • Options

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    As on so many issues, the Scotland/England border is obvious, the Wales/England border not obvious.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited February 2023

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Data 1 month old, only 35% of Scots want a republic.

    48% of Scots want to keep the monarchy now Charles is King.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
    Only 48%?

    Shoogly peg.
    So by a 13% margin Scots back the monarchy yes.

    Given even in 2014 No only beat Yes by a 10% margin, if Nats want to try and abolish the monarchy and give a 1.5% further swing to No even on 2014 figures, fine
    Who's trying to abolish the monarchy? It's not SNP policy.

    I'm talking about popular sentiment. Used to be *much* higher.
    They are, quite literally, dying off. Hard to see young Scots ever being won over by the current shower representing the finest of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha clan.
    Prince William has a +28% rating in Scotland and the Princess of Wales a +32% rating in Scotland. Both double the +13% rating for the monarchy overall in Scotland and also much higher than the +18% rating the King has and -9% rating the Queen Consort has with Scots.

    The Prince and Princess of Wales will be King and Queen by the time young Scots reach 50 and might actually decide an election


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/12/prince-harrys-popularity-falls-further-spare-hits-
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628

    Good morning, everyone.

    I don't want to alarm anyone, but one of my Bundesliga tips came off.

    Painful.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    DougSeal said:

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I’ve not just kissed a Tory, I once crashed a OUCA event and ended up having one of the filthiest liaisons of my life. If she was anything to go by, younger Conservatives have some deep issues to work through.
    I once kissed a Tory MP -- she wasn't at the time either a Tory or an MP. She was a radical student. She changed.

    'Having Sex with a Tory' is clearly an exciting new extension of pb.com.

    Who's writing the header? .
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938

    it seems to me from afar that the Scottish independence movement is in a far stronger position today than it was a decade ago. If I am right, I don't see how you can say Sturgeon has been a failure.

    A decade ago they were on the cusp of a Once in a Generation vote.

    Now they have no plausible plan to get to another one.


  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,602
    This is nonsense on stilts.

    "Roald Dahl book rewrites branded 'absurd censorship' by Salman Rushdie
    Content deemed offensive, such as references to weight, mental health, violence, gender and race have been removed or rewritten to ensure Dahl's classics can be enjoyed by all children, the publishers said"

    https://news.sky.com/story/roald-dahl-book-rewrites-branded-absurd-censorship-by-salman-rushdie-12815658
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    Rumours of an important visitor to Kyiv today; many key roads and bridges have been closed to traffic causing significant congestion.

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627582203608588288?s=20

    Liz Truss?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    DougSeal said:

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I’ve not just kissed a Tory, I once crashed a OUCA event and ended up having one of the filthiest liaisons of my life. If she was anything to go by, younger Conservatives have some deep issues to work through.
    I once kissed a Tory MP -- she wasn't at the time either a Tory or an MP. She was a radical student. She changed.

    'Having Sex with a Tory' is clearly an exciting new extension of pb.com.

    Who's writing the header? .
    I can give it a go if you want
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited February 2023
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    So your word is law in this? What’s your view on the Kingdom of Hungary between 1922 and 1944?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,993
    edited February 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Rumours of an important visitor to Kyiv today; many key roads and bridges have been closed to traffic causing significant congestion.

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627582203608588288?s=20

    Sounds Amercian, no-one else makes such a show of turning up. Kamala Harris?

    Up until now, most VIP visitors have arrived in Kiev by train from Poland. Landing a plane at Boryspil airport, would be quite the show of force.
    Biden, allegedly.

    A big story if true. I wonder if Trump'll make a visit to Moscow next? ;)

    Edit: though the BBC say Biden's visiting Poland today. I wonder if he's made an 'unscheduled' diversion to Kyiv?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    edited February 2023
    Apologies if this has been done, but one for the AI sceptics.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man-beats-machine-at-go-thanks-to-ai-opponents-fatal-flaw-nc9vqmrvf

    I fully admit to understanding the Go bit better than the AI.
    But it has fallen repeatedly for something a decent Intermediate player would see.
    And therefore would never dream of playing against a fellow human.

  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I once was one. The horrors were many, varied, and, I suspect, identical, regardless of the rosette. You will be be able to tell us if the experience is just more intense the more exalted the air you breathe.

    “Some people keep canaries, some people join the Party,”
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Apparently Biden is heading to Poland this morning, for a NATO summit. It would be quite the show if he turned up in Kiev.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Whatever the deficiencies of Sturgeon (if any), it is unquestionably true that Scotland is in a far, far better place than Wales.

    If the SNP had not taken Holyrood, the alternative would have been 24 years of SLAB in charge.

    We have had 24 years of poor & corrupt Government from Llafur in Wales.

    Scots only need to look at Wales ... and give thanks to the SNP.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584

    DougSeal said:

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I’ve not just kissed a Tory, I once crashed a OUCA event and ended up having one of the filthiest liaisons of my life. If she was anything to go by, younger Conservatives have some deep issues to work through.
    I once kissed a Tory MP -- she wasn't at the time either a Tory or an MP. She was a radical student. She changed....
    Correlation or causation ?
  • Options
    On Khreshchatyk - the main street of Kyiv - now; it’s completely closed for traffic. It’d be quiet, if it wasn’t for a deafening air raid siren.

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627603523167723520?s=20
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,900
    Robertson out!

    Looks like it will be Yousaf.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    So your word is law in this? What’s your view on the Kingdom of Hungary between 1922 and 1944?
    There was no Kingdom.

    Horthy was head of state not Otto Von Hapsburg
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    I’ve not just kissed a Tory, I once crashed a OUCA event and ended up having one of the filthiest liaisons of my life. If she was anything to go by, younger Conservatives have some deep issues to work through.
    I once kissed a Tory MP -- she wasn't at the time either a Tory or an MP. She was a radical student. She changed.

    'Having Sex with a Tory' is clearly an exciting new extension of pb.com.

    Who's writing the header? .
    I can give it a go if you want
    Certainly.

    But, I think that one time frequent poster @SeanT has won a Bad Sex Award for " crude, tasteless, often perfunctory use of redundant passages of sexual description in the modern novel"

    He is the obvious goto man for the header .... if we only knew how to contact him, sigh.
  • Options
    BREAK: Constitution Secretary Angus Robertson NOT standing to succeed Nicola Sturgeon as Scotland’s First Minister.



    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1627604739360804864?s=20
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    .
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    HYUFD will doubtless argue that the process of enthronement imbues them with divine right and royal blood in a miraculous process.

    It not more obviously absurd than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so who are we to argue with him ?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    This article outlines all the recent Go wins by humans over AI using different playing styles.

    https://goattack.far.ai/human-evaluation

    It's even been beaten with a 9 stone handicap start. Which is kind of the equivalent of a 9 goal start in a football game.
  • Options

    BREAK: Constitution Secretary Angus Robertson NOT standing to succeed Nicola Sturgeon as Scotland’s First Minister.



    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1627604739360804864?s=20

    Who does that reasonably leave? Forbes Vs Yousaf?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    All the "high" (not in that way) Tories, I know despise Boris and, showing that England is always England, despise equally the as they might term them "Hyacinth Buckets" who support the Conservative Party.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
    Ok I'm now going to pontificate on something I know nothing about, but that doesn't stop many on PB.

    How do you define Royal Blood? Because of the wonders of the power of two we are all descendents of Royals, multiple times over. Sadly most of us can't prove it, but it is still true.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    Two-thirds of public think Brexit has hurt UK economy, poll finds
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-uk-economy-damaged-b2285218.html
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
    Ok I'm now going to pontificate on something I know nothing about, but that doesn't stop many on PB.

    How do you define Royal Blood? Because of the wonders of the power of two we are all descendents of Royals, multiple times over. Sadly most of us can't prove it, but it is still true.
    When you become King there’s some sort of mitochlorian empowers you with The Force. Or something.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    mwadams said:



    "In the end we're all primarily individuals" and dinner parties with Oxfordshire Tories! Are you secretly a Thatcherite 5th Columnist? :smile:

    Very deep cover. I once kissed a Tory, too. What horrors await?
    All the "high" (not in that way) Tories, I know despise Boris and, showing that England is always England, despise equally the as they might term them "Hyacinth Buckets" who support the Conservative Party.
    Just catching up on the Damian Green deselection.

    Is the Conservative Party deliberately self-destructing?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    DougSeal said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
    Ok I'm now going to pontificate on something I know nothing about, but that doesn't stop many on PB.

    How do you define Royal Blood? Because of the wonders of the power of two we are all descendents of Royals, multiple times over. Sadly most of us can't prove it, but it is still true.
    When you become King there’s some sort of mitochlorian empowers you with The Force. Or something.
    You jest.
    But isn't that basically what anointment is?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    BREAK: Constitution Secretary Angus Robertson NOT standing to succeed Nicola Sturgeon as Scotland’s First Minister.



    https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1627604739360804864?s=20

    Who does that reasonably leave? Forbes Vs Yousaf?
    Ash Regan?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Eabhal said:

    Robertson out!

    Looks like it will be Yousaf.

    Fingers crossed, and then he can spout off about how racist Scotland is because they won't vote for him. He takes victim status to the stratosphere.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584
    Also.

    https://ukdaily.news/the-tory-grandees-stark-warning-to-boris-johnsons-allies-about-the-brexit-revolt-352883.html
    ...The row comes as a new query for The Independent found that a majority of the public believes Mr Johnson could step down as MP, while twice as many voters want him to remain silent than those who want him to say more on political matters.

    The Savanta ComRes poll found that 44 per cent of voters would like to hear less from Mr Johnson, while just 21 per cent would like to hear more from him. About 54 per cent of the public think the former Tory PM should leave Parliament, while 36 per cent want him to remain an MP.

    The same poll revealed even greater fatigue towards Liz Truss. About 55 percent of voters want to hear less from Liz Truss and 65 percent want her to step down as MP.

    The Savanta ComRes survey of 2,201 adults was conducted between February 10th and 12th...
  • Options
    Keir Starmer will be jumping for joy.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,415
    edited February 2023
    My money is on Leon or TheKitchenCabinet.

    Can’t wait to see who is going to do the tweet suggesting Biden is only going to Ukraine to find Hunter Biden’s laptop, or whatever the hell that conspiracy was.

    https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1627607704196771841?s=46&t=MSF4GJOQMMckQe67q7cWgQ
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited February 2023
    Well *someone* is making a show of going through the middle of Kiev.
    22 vehicles, look to be all on Ukranian plates.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627605388722929665

    Edit: it’s Biden. Wow.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Looking forward to Russia announcing just how much they really, really don't care that Biden is visiting Kyiv.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,415
    edited February 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Well *someone* is making a show of going through the middle of Kiev.
    22 vehicles, look to be all on Ukranian plates.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627605388722929665

    It’s Joe Biden.

    I wonder how he got the Secret Service to agree to that.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
    Ok I'm now going to pontificate on something I know nothing about, but that doesn't stop many on PB.

    How do you define Royal Blood? Because of the wonders of the power of two we are all descendents of Royals, multiple times over. Sadly most of us can't prove it, but it is still true.
    In terms of the monarch the next closest relative, normally the eldest son, if no eldest son the eldest daughter. If the monarch died childless normally a first or second cousin
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,993
    glw said:

    Looking forward to Russia announcing just how much they really, really don't care that Biden is visiting Kyiv.

    I believe high-up Chinese peeps are visiting Moscow today.

    Putin must be wondering why he always gets second-best...
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    F-16s soon for Ukraine, I hope!
  • Options
    Joe Biden and Zelensky strolling round Kyiv as air raid sirens blast out 💪

    https://twitter.com/chrisdyork/status/1627607312255881216?s=46&t=ZqaDazZXNczMAFl0Z7XawA
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,584

    Sandpit said:

    Well *someone* is making a show of going through the middle of Kiev.
    22 vehicles, look to be all on Ukranian plates.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1627605388722929665

    It’s Joe Biden.

    I wonder how he got the Secret Service to agree to that.
    Simple - he's the President.
    Sensible to brief beforehand that he had no intention of visiting.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Data nearly 5 years old, but nevertheless a thought-provoking map:


    Focaldata/UnHerd 2018

    Good to see we now live in the 6th most pro monarchy constituency in the UK. So we are now living with the top 1% of UK monarchy supporters
    Might help explain why you think Francoism is the way forward.
    No, Spain was a republic under Franco.

    He just agreed to restore constitutional monarchy before he died
    That’s completely wrong. Spain was from 1947 until 1975 a Kingdom without a king- similar to the way Horthy was Regent of the Kingdom of Hungary in the absence of a recognised monarch. On 26 July 1947, Spain was declared a kingdom, but no monarch was designated until 1969 Franco when made Juan Carlos of Bourbon his official heir-apparent. With the death of Franco on 20 November 1975, Juan Carlos became the King of Spain.
    Franco was head of state of Spain from 1936 to 1975.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

    So as I said Spain was a republic under Franco until the monarchy was restored in 1975.

    You cannot have a Kingdom without a monarch of royal blood as head of state by definition

    I can quote Wikipedia too, in fact I did in the post you reply to.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain

    Franco declared the state a Kingdom in 1947. He was effectively Regent.

    Your reply is intellectually shallow. Plenty of Kingdoms have kings without “royal blood” -

    -England when William I (Norman Duke) took over;
    -Sweden when Bernadotte (French General) took over;
    -various Bonapartist kingdoms (brothers of French General)
    - the ancient Roman Kingdom the kings were elected by the Roman assemblies;
    - in Ireland succession was determined by an elective system based on patrilineal relationship known as tanistry;
    - the King of Bohemia was elected by the Estates of Lands of the Bohemian Crown;
    - The Holy Roman Empire was elective

    I could go on…

    Still, this is all wasted, because you’re never wrong are you?
    He could declare it but it was not a Kingdon, Franco had no royal blood and the King was not Head of State so he was not regent either. He was dictator.

    William I had royal blood, he was Edward the Confessor's cousin once removed. The Holy Roman Emperors had royal blood, either Spanish or German.

    The Roman and Bonapartist Emperors were more heads of Empires than Kings with royal blood.

    The Kings of Bohemia were still hereditary
    Ok I'm now going to pontificate on something I know nothing about, but that doesn't stop many on PB.

    How do you define Royal Blood? Because of the wonders of the power of two we are all descendents of Royals, multiple times over. Sadly most of us can't prove it, but it is still true.
    In terms of the monarch the next closest relative, normally the eldest son, if no eldest son the eldest daughter. If the monarch died childless normally a first or second cousin
    So Saudi and the Gulf monarchies are not Kingdoms?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Nigelb said:

    Two-thirds of public think Brexit has hurt UK economy, poll finds
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-uk-economy-damaged-b2285218.html

    Well it has, hasn't it.
  • Options
    I hope somebody in The Kremlin has told the military that there should be no attacks on Kyiv today.
This discussion has been closed.