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Nicola Sturgeon to quit – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Political irrationality is sufficiently subjective someone can probably get away with criticising it.

    But even with subjectivity I think any senior politician or pundit is on very shaky ground.

    They might claim rationality sure, but can any of them claim with a straight face not to engage in hysteria?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    edited February 2023
    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti trans Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    GIN1138 said:

    For the first time, I am predicting a Labour majority.

    It's been obvious since September that Labour would win the next election with a majority?
    In the same way it was obvious on 6th May 2021 that the Tories would win the next election, under Boris.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Can a man not even nip out to the library without something happening in politics? ;)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited February 2023
    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti trans Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    2nd favourite with Hills at 2/1. My instinct; head: avoid. Heart: I hope she gets it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    AlistairM said:

    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?

    Probably flying without meeting regulations. Or maybe they are fitting their aircraft with counterfeit parts now that they can't get the real thing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    algarkirk said:

    ATM there are three big beast parties in the UK: Con, Lab and SNP. This may be a unique moment. As of now (today, up to noon) Labour's reputation is by miles the cleanest and dullest of the three.

    Can this last?

    Which is interesting, because Labour has not been without its own bad apples. Jared O'Mara, the peterborough MP etc. I think its partly what grabs the media attention, more than any inherent 'cleaner' nature. Plus both the Tories and the SNP have been in power, which gives better access to opportunities to commit dodgy stuff...
    But the curious thing is Labour are in power in a part of the UK.

    And it is run like Sicily but with rain.
    Apologies - I should have remembered the Drake and his reign of mediocrity...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti trans Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    2nd favourite with Hills at 2/1. My instinct; head: avoid. Heart: I hope she gets it.
    Is that 'head' part from a betting, SNP or unionist perspective? How about the heart bit - SNP or unionist heart?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,163
    Good news for the Charmer.

    Labour moves out of the EHRC special measures to tackle racism.

    The EHRC said the party had made the necessary changes in an action plan, which meant it could conclude its work. Its October 2020 decision had meant the party had to produce a legally enforceable plan to prevent similar discrimination.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/15/labour-out-of-ehrc-special-measures-after-progress-on-tackling-antisemitism
  • This is seismic for Scottish politics. There is now significant risk of a decrease in SNP popularity and a greater chance of Labour recovery.

    Nicola Sturgeon, whatever you think of her, is an exceptionally talented politician. It will be hard for the SNP to elect someone who can command the same presence as her.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
    The later - plus bodge fixes. There are very limited number of international flights by Russian airlines - which helps the situation externally.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited February 2023
    AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
    If you cut maintenance then the usual outcome is that nothing much goes wrong.

    For a while, at least...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    I've not read the details but the IMF is predicting every country, not just Russia, will grow, except for Britain of course! The Russian economy might gain from increased military production and transfer of export commodities like oil to new markets which have not imposed sanctions. ETA if you poke about on the IMF website you should be able to find the report.
    There's an interesting Joe Bloggs video on this. January's figures are not positive for Russia - even if you believe the figures.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gVKf4v_130
  • Non-SNP politicians talking about Nicola Sturgeon today [VIDEO]

    https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1625835530138034179?s=20

    A little unfair as Sunak has already tweeted “thanks for service”
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Prof John Curtice “Nicola Sturgeon SNP’s most effective communicator by far, no obvious successor.”

    As someone who doesn’t live in Scotland and isn’t a natural SNP voter, I still always thought Angus Robertson was a good speaker when he was at Westminster.
    He did seem to come across well. No idea where he falls on the issues though.
    He was the architect of the internal ‘reforms’ which massively reduced the powers of annual Conference and ordinary branches in favour of special interest groups within the party.

    https://caltonjock.com/2023/02/03/angus-robertson-the-aspiring-machiavelli-wields-the-power-in-the-snp/
  • A huge personal moment for Sturgeon and political moment for Scotland.

    But this speech demonstrates what an extraordinary performer she is, presenting Olympian levels of disingenuousness as modesty, insisting she could win, and asking others to dial down polarisation.


    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1625818887626399745?s=20
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    How does that increase gdp?

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Interesting. I had to fish out the baptism certificate for something (CofE in England). Thought it was marriage, maybe I remembered wrong.

    Or perhaps it wasn't required but simply requested for some reason? I recall because I had to ask my parents for it and it wasn't CofE baptism I had (URC instead).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
    Sanctions busting via Turkey, China, Thailand, Indonesia and the dodgy aircraft components capital of the world, Miami.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Indeed, as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church.

    You only need to be baptised or confirmed in or have regularly attended a Church of England church for 6 months to be married there if it is not your local Parish church
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,163
    geoffw said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    How does that increase gdp?

    Machine tools and similar.
  • AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
    Well there are lots of places they are no longer allowed to fly to so that must be helping.

    Their oil industry is pretty much on its knees. Immediate production is not affected but as with all oil and gas developments, unless you are drilling the wells to replace usage, you get into trouble pretty fast. And whilst they maybe able to steal/copy some of the tooling they lack the skilled people to actually use it.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Indeed, as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church.

    You only need to be baptised or confirmed in or have regularly attended a Church of England church for 6 months to be married there if it is not your local Parish church
    Ah. Wasn't local church. The church nearest where my wife grew up and was baptised in. Maybe they only wanted hers really.

    Now, as it happens, our local CofE church again, but it wasn't at the time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited February 2023
    AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    Good question. Trying to get an understanding of sanctions evasion would be a useful exercise for the IMF to conduct.

    My suspicion is that most Western goods in Russia are Chinese copies heading over that border. Most of the branded goods factories in China, have had for years an informal night shift running to supply the domestic market at discounted prices.

    The really interesting research would be around capital equipment. For how long can Russia keep Western oil & gas rigs pumping, and planes flying, without formal external support?
    I remember a year ago there was a lot of talk that Russian planes would very shortly be grounded due to lack of parts. A year later and it doesn't seem to have happened. Or are they cannibalising some planes for parts to keep others flying?
    Yes, there’s a lot fewer flights in Russia than before, IIRC about 70-80% down on 2019, with many international destinations now out of bounds, and aircraft that were leased confined to domestic routes to avoid seizure by banks.

    There’s a fair number of grounded aircraft which are presumed cannibalised, including new Airbus 2021 deliveries, there’s likely a few dodgy Chinese fake parts around, and with no external oversight probably a lot of planes flying with multiple unserviceabilities, that would by now have been grounded for repairs by Western airlines.

    As the sanctions continue, the theory goes that fewer and fewer of the Boeing and Airbus types will remain airworthy, even by Russian standards of airworthiness - Russian standards that have traditionally seen multiple accidents, and resignations of people in safety roles, before a type was grounded. How that theory is playing out in practice, would be very useful information.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    MattW said:

    geoffw said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Can anyone explain to me why the IMF are projecting the Russian economy to grow this year? Seems weird since the energy sanctions have only just come in. Most of the government expenditure in January was borrowing. Will they be able to keep indebting themselves in the medium term?

    A number of official reasons to do with energy prices and (implausible) exchange rates - but mostly that the IMF has no mechanism to challenge the Russian government’s own figures that are being reported, as to how wonderful is their economy at the moment.
    Continued influx of Western goods via Georgia?
    How does that increase gdp?

    Machine tools and similar.
    Imports decrease gdp cet par

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Missed this last week:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-64588457

    I hope the policing at Wembley is up to scratch. This has trouble written all over it.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    Yesterday, 8pm: "Nicola Sturgeon told to stop ignoring trans children care scandal:
    "Concerns about puberty blocker referrals at London clinic have not been followed up in Scotland, warns whistleblower"

    This morning, at a "hastily arranged" press conference: she resigns - not because she doesn't think she's great, mind, but because her instinct tells her that resignation is right for Scotland.

    Okayyyyy.

    There's an ongoing police investigation into a £667,000 pro-independence fighting fund donated by supporters too.
  • Which party is going to win the next general election? The latest voting intention poll from Deltapoll has Labour on a 20% lead over the Conservatives. The last time the Conservatives were ahead in any poll published by Deltapoll was in November 2021. Since that time, the Labour lead has been as small as 6% in March 2022 and as large as 32% in October 2023.

    Do polling leads for Labour of this size mean that they will secure a majority in the next election? Certainly, it seems difficult to see how the Conservatives can close or even reverse the 20-25 percentage point gap between now and the next election. Yet, if we look at trends in vote intention polling and the final vote share on election day for Labour and the Conservatives in past elections, it is not unprecedented to see large fluctuations throughout the election cycle that ultimately end up as far smaller gaps come the election. Ahead of the 1997 General Election, mid-term polling gaps were as large as Labour polling at 32.4% in February 1995, when the final election result had Labour 12.5% ahead of the Conservatives on election day in May 1997. It should be said, however, that some – indeed much – of the polling work undertaken before the 1997 election was not, in our view, particularly methodologically rigorous, and comparisons with it made today often forget that, especially when polling averages are the comparative method.


    https://deltapoll.co.uk/why-its-very-hard-to-know-who-will-win-the-next-election-analysing-pre-election-polling-fluctuations-since-1997
  • The Welsh are going to chicken out of their inevitable and deserved beating from England.

    Wales players discuss strike over contracts to leave England Six Nations clash under threat

    Angry players in Wales are discussing a strike having been left in deadlock while negotiating contracts with the Welsh Rugby Union.

    A mutinous mood is growing in Cardiff, in the build-up to Wales’ next Guinness Six Nations match against England, with the issue seriously affecting players in Warren Gatland’s squad and their colleagues across the country.

    The WRU has not agreed next season’s budgets for Wales’s four regional sides, leaving players unable to sign contracts. With only four months left on many deals, huge numbers of Wales-based players face uncertain futures. Many will leave the country if this cannot be solved.

    More immediately it is affecting players’ mental health, as the situation impacts their finances and families. “It’s families. It’s a real dog’s dinner,” a source said. “The players are very stressed and anxious. Unless the WRU invests in the game we are in trouble.” In the most extreme scenario, there could be a threat to the match against England in Cardiff on February 25.

    One unnamed Welsh player told the Daily Mail: “I can’t apply for a mortgage and I’m on antidepressants. I’m also one big injury away from not having a job in July yet I’m starting for Wales every week and the WRU is making tens of millions from international matches.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/welsh-rugby-facing-threat-of-players-strike-amid-deadlock-over-contracts-hzvrm3fvc
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Does “less irrationality and hysteria in politics” mean “shut up and just accept the views of your betters”?
  • VAR and Adam Tomkins decision.



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    DuraAIs

    AI flies F-16-inspired jet for 17 hours in first test with tactical aircraft
    https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3857914-ai-flies-f-16-inspired-jet-for-17-hours-in-first-test-with-tactical-aircraft/
  • HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    You're right but I think you've missed my point. Unless they did something explicit to show that they backed Corbyn's parliamentary campaign, it would be very hard to act against them. But if Momentum itself backs Corbyn and is then proscribed, then if they chose to remain members of Momentum that would be grounds for expelling them.
  • NEW: Police Scotland today refusing to say if Nicola Sturgeon has been interviewed/spoken to by police investigating alleged SNP fundraising fraud

    We asked Police Scotland the Q directly, and they said they wouldn’t confirm who they speak to as part of an ongoing investigation


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1625843103092408320
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    edited February 2023



    HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    You're right but I think you've missed my point. Unless they did something explicit to show that they backed Corbyn's parliamentary campaign, it would be very hard to act against them. But if Momentum itself backs Corbyn and is then proscribed, then if they chose to remain members of Momentum that would be grounds for expelling them.
    Wasn't that part of the endgame against Militant, at the start of New Labour?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    edited February 2023
    biggles said:

    Does “less irrationality and hysteria in politics” mean “shut up and just accept the views of your betters”?

    Yes.

    Now shut up and stop asking questions.

    EDIT: Funniest conversation I had on this was with a friend who loves Rage Against The Machine. He seemed to have a hard time understanding that "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" might be associated with the belief that one should make up ones own mind.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831
    Purely off the top of my head thinking: Has Sunak made the job of SNP Leader a bit more difficult? It's quite hard to see him as the bogeyman that Johnson and Truss could be portrayed as which has always been Sturgeon's great asset.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Jonathan said:

    So who is going to keep the seat warm for Alex Salmond to return?

    Salmond is not as loved in Scotland as he is south of the border. His third return would probably end the SNP as a viable force in politics. Not least because it would emphasize the weak field on offer.

    Keith Brown is not going to set the heather on fire for the progressives... Robertson and Swinney are even more tired looking.

    Kate Forbes looks fresher and is undoubtedly bright, but her Wee Free Church background and expressed views do not make her a comfortable figurehead for the Young Nats. At 32 she can afford to wait, of course, but its a risk that the Nat tide goes out for decades.

    Hamza Yousaf is a back room operator, in the tradition of Sturgeon, but has a few issues (driving offences) which call his judgement into question.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    She has been a highly successful politician in some ways - clearly the SNP has performed well in elections for a long time. However she has also failed to deliver independence - the very reason for the SNP's existence.

    Like BoZo, great at winning elections, and fuck all else...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    biggles said:

    Does “less irrationality and hysteria in politics” mean “shut up and just accept the views of your betters”?

    Yes.

    Now shut up and stop asking questions.
    To be fair I’m all in favour of it so long as my views get to be those of the super-elite. My national priorities (the preservation of Test cricket, the protection of proper beer, and the maintenance of standards in crosswords) seem to rarely come up at elections, so they are useless to me anyway.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    Cicero said:

    Jonathan said:

    So who is going to keep the seat warm for Alex Salmond to return?

    Salmond is not as loved in Scotland as he is south of the border. His third return would probably end the SNP as a viable force in politics. Not least because it would emphasize the weak field on offer.

    Keith Brown is not going to set the heather on fire for the progressives... Robertson and Swinney are even more tired looking.

    Kate Forbes looks fresher and is undoubtedly bright, but her Wee Free Church background and expressed views do not make her a comfortable figurehead for the Young Nats. At 32 she can afford to wait, of course, but its a risk that the Nat tide goes out for decades.

    Hamza Yousaf is a back room operator, in the tradition of Sturgeon, but has a few issues (driving offences) which call his judgement into question.
    Wasn't there a recent Poll that had Salmond on -57% in Scotland?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831
    Cicero said:

    Jonathan said:

    So who is going to keep the seat warm for Alex Salmond to return?

    Salmond is not as loved in Scotland as he is south of the border. His third return would probably end the SNP as a viable force in politics. Not least because it would emphasize the weak field on offer.
    Hmmm. I would say begrudgingly respected rather than genuinely loved though I can't speak for everyone.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,305

    VAR and Adam Tomkins decision.



    Who gives a fuck, the clam-jousting old witch has gone. Huzzah

    I am mourning her sad departure with “the best gin and tonic in Cambodia”


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    Cicero said:

    Jonathan said:

    So who is going to keep the seat warm for Alex Salmond to return?

    Salmond is not as loved in Scotland as he is south of the border. His third return would probably end the SNP as a viable force in politics. Not least because it would emphasize the weak field on offer.

    Keith Brown is not going to set the heather on fire for the progressives... Robertson and Swinney are even more tired looking.

    Kate Forbes looks fresher and is undoubtedly bright, but her Wee Free Church background and expressed views do not make her a comfortable figurehead for the Young Nats. At 32 she can afford to wait, of course, but its a risk that the Nat tide goes out for decades.

    Hamza Yousaf is a back room operator, in the tradition of Sturgeon, but has a few issues (driving offences) which call his judgement into question.
    Wasn't there a recent Poll that had Salmond on -57% in Scotland?
    157% with all the Russian bots.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Indeed, as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church.

    You only need to be baptised or confirmed in or have regularly attended a Church of England church for 6 months to be married there if it is not your local Parish church
    "as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church."

    What a whacking fib. Unapproved couples are not allowed, as you've been telling us for months, even when it is the law of England that they can be married.

    Or are gay people not "anyone"?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    Oh, so rural independents who are really Tories don't count?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    biggles said:

    Cicero said:

    Jonathan said:

    So who is going to keep the seat warm for Alex Salmond to return?

    Salmond is not as loved in Scotland as he is south of the border. His third return would probably end the SNP as a viable force in politics. Not least because it would emphasize the weak field on offer.

    Keith Brown is not going to set the heather on fire for the progressives... Robertson and Swinney are even more tired looking.

    Kate Forbes looks fresher and is undoubtedly bright, but her Wee Free Church background and expressed views do not make her a comfortable figurehead for the Young Nats. At 32 she can afford to wait, of course, but its a risk that the Nat tide goes out for decades.

    Hamza Yousaf is a back room operator, in the tradition of Sturgeon, but has a few issues (driving offences) which call his judgement into question.
    Wasn't there a recent Poll that had Salmond on -57% in Scotland?
    157% with all the Russian bots.
    https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/scottish-election-poll/

    Alex Slamond, Net rating: -64
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    VAR and Adam Tomkins decision.



    Who gives a fuck, the clam-jousting old witch has gone. Huzzah

    I am mourning her sad departure with “the best gin and tonic in Cambodia”


    Looks rather an exhausting beverage, but we have every faith in you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited February 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    I’ve just learned that Kate Forbes read History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.

    She’s going to be awesome as First Minister.

    Unionists should be afraid.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    No doubt lots of individuals will help him but Momentum won't express an opinion on Islington North IMO.

    His brand in Islington North is hugely personal (I used to live there and I remember even Tories who were voting for him as he'd done something for the family), and wouldn't in the least benefit from Momentum or any prominent left-wing figure endorsing him - his left-wing credentials are not in doubt, after all. But he'll undoubtedly have all the money and canvassing assistance that he wants.

    The Greens have an awkward decision - they do well in local elections there (better than the Tories or LibDems IRRC) so normally they'd be keen to stand, but I suspect they'll see more electoral benefit in endorsing him.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    This must surely be the impact of "free" healthcare models. Kids think they don't have to look after their parents when they get old, presumably because they expect the state to step in. Maybe the only thing that Russia has right!

    I don’t think this speaks well of Northern Europe.

    The role of family responsibility was notably absent from commentary when UK debated social care funding models in 2021.


    https://twitter.com/samuelcoates/status/1625847059134795776?s=20&t=23X99vLP2hOoeSjdQE_c2Q
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anti-independentists previously: Sturgeon is an idiot, a complete imbecile, damaging her cause by her simple presence.

    Anti-independentists now: she was a titan, a powerful and effective politician, independence will be set back by her absence.

    She was very effective at turning Scotland into a one party state, but no nearer her "dream" than she was in 2014.

    The SNP are damaged by her going.

    Less sure about Indy, but it's still not going to happen
    "one party state"

    It is a minority administration with some SG help, for heaven's sake.
  • Purely off the top of my head thinking: Has Sunak made the job of SNP Leader a bit more difficult? It's quite hard to see him as the bogeyman that Johnson and Truss could be portrayed as which has always been Sturgeon's great asset.

    I think Sturgeon could quite easily have continued to run the attack lines against Sunak.

    Her great political skill is being able to blame everyone else but herself, but appear to be acting wholly reasonably when doing so. I dislike her politics but I have to say she is easily one of the most rhetorically impressive politicians in the UK since Blair.

    She will be a hard act to follow.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anti-independentists previously: Sturgeon is an idiot, a complete imbecile, damaging her cause by her simple presence.

    Anti-independentists now: she was a titan, a powerful and effective politician, independence will be set back by her absence.

    She was very effective at turning Scotland into a one party state, but no nearer her "dream" than she was in 2014.

    The SNP are damaged by her going.

    Less sure about Indy, but it's still not going to happen
    "one party state"

    It is a minority administration with some SG help, for heaven's sake.
    The State is more than the administration, for heaven's sake.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Her great political skill is being able to blame everyone else but herself, but appear to be acting wholly reasonably when doing so. I dislike her politics but I have to say she is easily one of the most rhetorically impressive politicians in the UK since Blair.

    I can do without the heid wobble though
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,143

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    No doubt lots of individuals will help him but Momentum won't express an opinion on Islington North IMO.

    His brand in Islington North is hugely personal (I used to live there and I remember even Tories who were voting for him as he'd done something for the family), and wouldn't in the least benefit from Momentum or any prominent left-wing figure endorsing him - his left-wing credentials are not in doubt, after all. But he'll undoubtedly have all the money and canvassing assistance that he wants.

    The Greens have an awkward decision - they do well in local elections there (better than the Tories or LibDems IRRC) so normally they'd be keen to stand, but I suspect they'll see more electoral benefit in endorsing him.
    Won't Jeremy take poll soundings and then stand if they look good for him and not if they don't?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    Who gives a fuck what twitter says.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,305
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    VAR and Adam Tomkins decision.



    Who gives a fuck, the clam-jousting old witch has gone. Huzzah

    I am mourning her sad departure with “the best gin and tonic in Cambodia”


    Looks rather an exhausting beverage, but we have every faith in you.
    I’m gone give it my British best. Nicola deserves nothing less

    BTW also thanks (IIRC it was you) for recommending “Kill Anything That Moves”

    I’ve been reading it out here in indochina. Jesus F Christ, as they say in the 101st Airborne
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    I’ve just learned that Kate Forbes read History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.

    She’s going to be awesome as First Minister.

    Unionists should be afraid.
    Wasn't Cambridge full of spies who were traitors to the Nation....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    I see that they don't plan to call an Election, which is the exact opposite of what Ms Sturgeon was demanding for the UK Government when the Tories changed leader.

    Rank hypocrites.
    Wrong parliament. Wrong procedures.

    The way it happens, is for the SNP to pick a leader and then Holyrood votes, including SGs, to nominate the FM. Only then ratified by HMtK. And SNP is a minority party.

    This did not happen in Westminster ...

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Carnyx said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    I see that they don't plan to call an Election, which is the exact opposite of what Ms Sturgeon was demanding for the UK Government when the Tories changed leader.

    Rank hypocrites.
    Wrong parliament. Wrong procedures.

    The way it happens, is for the SNP to pick a leader and then Holyrood votes, including SGs, to nominate the FM. Only then ratified by HMtK. And SNP is a minority party.

    This did not happen in Westminster ...

    The PM has to command the confidence of the house in order to be appointed by the monarch in the first place.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663

    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    Who gives a fuck what twitter says.
    I'd usually agree, but consider:

    - SNP has a huge membership who are high politically engaged, especially on social media

    - The trans debate has caused issues for the SNP and has been a social media melee for months
  • Nicola Surgeon was as articulate, persuasive, and passionate as we have come to expect from such an effective politician.

    But I have to say, bemoaning the divisiveness and tribalism in politics when you have been a key partisan player in the very same division felt a bit rich.


    https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1625828827623485440?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,305
    Scott_xP said:

    Her great political skill is being able to blame everyone else but herself, but appear to be acting wholly reasonably when doing so. I dislike her politics but I have to say she is easily one of the most rhetorically impressive politicians in the UK since Blair.

    I can do without the heid wobble though
    Sturgeon has a weirdly big head, rather out of proportion to her body

    Entirely unrelated, but it has been my observation in life that kinky women either have weirdly big or small heads. Make of that what you will
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    I’ve just learned that Kate Forbes read History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.

    She’s going to be awesome as First Minister.

    Unionists should be afraid.
    She also speaks Gaelic, BUT like very many very bright people, she isn´t good at hiding her feelings if she thinks someone is an idiot and there are quite a few idiots around her.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,143
    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anti-independentists previously: Sturgeon is an idiot, a complete imbecile, damaging her cause by her simple presence.

    Anti-independentists now: she was a titan, a powerful and effective politician, independence will be set back by her absence.

    She was very effective at turning Scotland into a one party state, but no nearer her "dream" than she was in 2014.

    The SNP are damaged by her going.

    Less sure about Indy, but it's still not going to happen
    Independence is no nearer than it was in 2014? It depends what we mean. It's undeniably further away than it was the day before the Referendum but it's probably closer than it was the day after. Sturgeon took over after the Referendum therefore I'd say she can truthfully claim the cause of independence has been advanced during her tenure.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    I see that they don't plan to call an Election, which is the exact opposite of what Ms Sturgeon was demanding for the UK Government when the Tories changed leader.

    Rank hypocrites.
    Wrong parliament. Wrong procedures.

    The way it happens, is for the SNP to pick a leader and then Holyrood votes, including SGs, to nominate the FM. Only then ratified by HMtK. And SNP is a minority party.

    This did not happen in Westminster ...

    The PM has to command the confidence of the house in order to be appointed by the monarch in the first place.
    But that isn't formally determined in any sense. it's all nods and winks and backroom stuff.

    Also, fixed term parliament. Can't call an election unless things really are deadlocked, as determined by actual vote.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268

    Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    I’ve just learned that Kate Forbes read History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.

    She’s going to be awesome as First Minister.

    Unionists should be afraid.
    Wasn't Cambridge full of spies who were traitors to the Nation....
    Patrice Lumumba Fenland Poly, I think you mean…
  • Theresa May's resigntion speech took less than 7 minutes.
    Boris Johnson's resignation announcement was less than 8 minutes.
    Liz Truss took less than 2 minutes.
    Sturgeon's lasted almost 40 minutes. That tells you all you need to know.


    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1625847629266718720?s=20

  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Indeed, as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church.

    You only need to be baptised or confirmed in or have regularly attended a Church of England church for 6 months to be married there if it is not your local Parish church
    "as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church."

    What a whacking fib. Unapproved couples are not allowed, as you've been telling us for months, even when it is the law of England that they can be married.

    Or are gay people not "anyone"?
    Also many straight couples have to take classes for several months to get married at some of the cathedrals.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anti-independentists previously: Sturgeon is an idiot, a complete imbecile, damaging her cause by her simple presence.

    Anti-independentists now: she was a titan, a powerful and effective politician, independence will be set back by her absence.

    She was very effective at turning Scotland into a one party state, but no nearer her "dream" than she was in 2014.

    The SNP are damaged by her going.

    Less sure about Indy, but it's still not going to happen
    "one party state"

    It is a minority administration with some SG help, for heaven's sake.
    The State is more than the administration, for heaven's sake.
    Have a look at Scottish local government.

    And have a look at how much is reserved by HMG(London).

    And look at the media. And so on.

    "One party state" is a popular unionist chant - but it is nonsense, and particularly unhelpful and mendacious nonsense in any serious discussion of politics in Scotland.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,380
    Anas Sarwar has just paid quite a glowing tribute to Sturgeon on R4. Both he, and Sturgeon herself through her parting words, are somewhat more dignified about her departure than her small-minded critics on here and elsewhere.
  • Eabhal said:

    Yousaf v Forbes: who has the worst religion?

    Already kicking off on twitter.

    I’ve just learned that Kate Forbes read History at Selwyn College, Cambridge.

    She’s going to be awesome as First Minister.

    Unionists should be afraid.
    Wasn't Cambridge full of spies who were traitors to the Nation....
    That was the other place.

    https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/dreaming-spies-inside-story-kgb-oxford
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    WillG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kate Forbes, a member of the evangelical, hardline anti homosexual marriage, anti gender fluidity marriage Free Church of Scotland is
    early favourite to succeed Sturgeon as leader of the SNP

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/who-replace-nicola-sturgeon-next-snp-leader-kate-forbes/

    "anti gender fluidity marriage"? What's that?

    Offtopic, can the church refuse to marry two people born the same sex, where one has a GRC, so they are officially opposite gender? In principle, they're not even allowed to ask about that, are they?

    Although I think I had to produce a baptism certificate before I got married, to prove my Christian faith, which could be a stumbling block (no requirement, as far as I know, to produce an updated baptism certificate after a GRC)
    As always it will depend which church, in which jurisdiction. Churches are not all the same. England and Scotland not all the same either.
    NB you do not have to be baptised to be married in CoE in England.

    Indeed, as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church.

    You only need to be baptised or confirmed in or have regularly attended a Church of England church for 6 months to be married there if it is not your local Parish church
    "as the established church anyone can be married or buried in their local Parish Church of England church."

    What a whacking fib. Unapproved couples are not allowed, as you've been telling us for months, even when it is the law of England that they can be married.

    Or are gay people not "anyone"?
    Also many straight couples have to take classes for several months to get married at some of the cathedrals.
    Technically I suppose those aren't parish churches tbf (except in Scotland where the old ones have been de-bishoped and converted to parish kirks).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    I see that they don't plan to call an Election, which is the exact opposite of what Ms Sturgeon was demanding for the UK Government when the Tories changed leader.

    Rank hypocrites.
    Wrong parliament. Wrong procedures.

    The way it happens, is for the SNP to pick a leader and then Holyrood votes, including SGs, to nominate the FM. Only then ratified by HMtK. And SNP is a minority party.

    This did not happen in Westminster ...

    The PM has to command the confidence of the house in order to be appointed by the monarch in the first place.
    But that isn't formally determined in any sense. it's all nods and winks and backroom stuff.

    Also, fixed term parliament. Can't call an election unless things really are deadlocked, as determined by actual vote.
    But the effect is the same. If there was a doubt of the PM’s confidence, the opposition would table a no confidence vote.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,143

    Theresa May's resigntion speech took less than 7 minutes.
    Boris Johnson's resignation announcement was less than 8 minutes.
    Liz Truss took less than 2 minutes.
    Sturgeon's lasted almost 40 minutes. That tells you all you need to know.


    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1625847629266718720?s=20

    About their relative substance and stature? ... Yep.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    Oh, so rural independents who are really Tories don't count?
    If the Tories don't put up candidates against them no.

    If the Tories do put up candidates in a ward and you stand as or back Independent candidates against them, then that is grounds for expulsion from the party
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    Oh, so rural independents who are really Tories don't count?
    If the Tories don't put up candidates against them no.

    If the Tories do put up candidates in a ward and you stand as or back Independent candidates against them, then that is grounds for expulsion from the party
    We've discussed this before - examples of this not happening in Scotland, people moving between the two categories at will. It's certainly not a rule that they take seriously.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    edited February 2023
    AlistairM said:

    This must surely be the impact of "free" healthcare models. Kids think they don't have to look after their parents when they get old, presumably because they expect the state to step in. Maybe the only thing that Russia has right!

    I don’t think this speaks well of Northern Europe.

    The role of family responsibility was notably absent from commentary when UK debated social care funding models in 2021.


    https://twitter.com/samuelcoates/status/1625847059134795776?s=20&t=23X99vLP2hOoeSjdQE_c2Q

    Some correlation between religion and willingess to care for parents there. Most of Eastern Europe and Italy are more religious than the UK and Nordic nations for example and more willing to care for sick parents.

    France an exception also not being very religious but still more family oriented than we are
  • Mandy Rhodes on R4 - Sturgeon left no succession plan, unlike her predecessor.
  • kinabalu said:

    Theresa May's resigntion speech took less than 7 minutes.
    Boris Johnson's resignation announcement was less than 8 minutes.
    Liz Truss took less than 2 minutes.
    Sturgeon's lasted almost 40 minutes. That tells you all you need to know.


    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1625847629266718720?s=20

    About their relative substance and stature? ... Yep.
    Which of Sturgeon’s achievements of substance would you like to highlight?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited February 2023

    Anas Sarwar has just paid quite a glowing tribute to Sturgeon on R4. Both he, and Sturgeon herself through her parting words, are somewhat more dignified about her departure than her small-minded critics on here and elsewhere.

    Yes, I fear days of sour-graped attacks from Carlotta the Transpotter will be served up in the week ahead
  • kinabalu said:

    Theresa May's resigntion speech took less than 7 minutes.
    Boris Johnson's resignation announcement was less than 8 minutes.
    Liz Truss took less than 2 minutes.
    Sturgeon's lasted almost 40 minutes. That tells you all you need to know.


    https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1625847629266718720?s=20

    About their relative substance and stature? ... Yep.
    Not sure that Sturgeon isn't May, Johnson or Truss is really quite the sick burn from *checks notes* the Scottish Tory activist who was supended from her own party after joking about Nicola Sturgeon's miscarriage on Twitter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    WillG said:

    MattW said:

    I see that they don't plan to call an Election, which is the exact opposite of what Ms Sturgeon was demanding for the UK Government when the Tories changed leader.

    Rank hypocrites.
    Wrong parliament. Wrong procedures.

    The way it happens, is for the SNP to pick a leader and then Holyrood votes, including SGs, to nominate the FM. Only then ratified by HMtK. And SNP is a minority party.

    This did not happen in Westminster ...

    The PM has to command the confidence of the house in order to be appointed by the monarch in the first place.
    But that isn't formally determined in any sense. it's all nods and winks and backroom stuff.

    Also, fixed term parliament. Can't call an election unless things really are deadlocked, as determined by actual vote.
    But the effect is the same. If there was a doubt of the PM’s confidence, the opposition would table a no confidence vote.

    Still I would argue it is formally and psychologically different to have a vote BEFORE it goes to HMtK. It has to be tested - no daring HMLO in a game of constitutional chicken.

    And the fixed term issue means that elections can't be deployed tactically in the Westminster sense.
  • Anas Sarwar has just paid quite a glowing tribute to Sturgeon on R4. Both he, and Sturgeon herself through her parting words, are somewhat more dignified about her departure than her small-minded critics on here and elsewhere.

    Yes, I fear days of sour-graped attacks from Carlotta the Transpotter will be served up in the week ahead
    How’s your non issue nobody cares about turning out?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023

    Anas Sarwar has just paid quite a glowing tribute to Sturgeon on R4. Both he, and Sturgeon herself through her parting words, are somewhat more dignified about her departure than her small-minded critics on here and elsewhere.

    Yes, I fear days of sour-graped attacks from Carlotta the Transpotter will be served up in the week ahead
    That made me wonder for a moment how much time Carlotta had spent in Leith Central Station in her youth!

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/feb/05/choose-leith-trainspotting-locations-changing-edinburgh-irvine-welsh
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    AlistairM said:

    This must surely be the impact of "free" healthcare models. Kids think they don't have to look after their parents when they get old, presumably because they expect the state to step in. Maybe the only thing that Russia has right!

    I don’t think this speaks well of Northern Europe.

    The role of family responsibility was notably absent from commentary when UK debated social care funding models in 2021.


    https://twitter.com/samuelcoates/status/1625847059134795776?s=20&t=23X99vLP2hOoeSjdQE_c2Q

    Some correlation between religion and willingess to care for parents there. Most of Eastern Europe and Italy are more religious than the UK and Nordic nations for example and more willing to care for sick parents.

    France an exception also not being very religious but still more family oriented than we are
    Czechia is the most atheistic country in Europe I believe, yet still more responsible than us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,936
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Regarding Corbyn, todays announcement by Starmer only confirms what for has a long while now been an outcome that had already been universally assumed.

    Corbyn's reaction will eventually be to announce that he will stand as an independent. The only question is whether he will announce that soon, or only after waiting until his attempts to contest Starmer's decision are dismissed.

    At which point, the interesting thing will be the official reaction of Momentum. They could hardly fail to give Corbyn their support. Most likely they won't do so by an explicit official announcement, but I can't imagine that they'll be able to help themselves in making it blindingly obvious that that is where they stand. And if/when they do so, effectively backing a candidate standing against an official Labour Party candidate, does that not leave the door open to Momentum being treated as a proscribed organisation by the Labour Party? Once that happens, there will be all sorts of consequences for the rump of their "supporters" within the party, those who have not by that stage already left.

    Anyone who backs putting up candidates against official Labour or Conservative candidates would be expelled from the party
    Oh, so rural independents who are really Tories don't count?
    If the Tories don't put up candidates against them no.

    If the Tories do put up candidates in a ward and you stand as or back Independent candidates against them, then that is grounds for expulsion from the party
    We've discussed this before - examples of this not happening in Scotland, people moving between the two categories at will. It's certainly not a rule that they take seriously.
    It certainly is round here, anyone who is a party member or councillor who stands as an Independent against official Conservative candidates is automatically expelled from the party.

    Even the cases you showed still meant the members concerned left the party, even if eventually let back in at a later stage if they managed to get elected as Independents
This discussion has been closed.