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Biden edges up to become WH2024 betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

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  • Hadn’t seen this before but Rishi’s wife uses her maiden name - with “Mrs”…The Prime Minister and Mrs Murty met parents, children and staff at the St Austell Family Hub in Cornwall today.

    👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 From pregnancy through to perinatal mental health and infant feeding, family hubs provide vital support so every child can get the best start in life.


    https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1623687244484644864
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    On a happier note, it's the second anniversary of this small piece of internet magnificence.

    Happy #LawyerCat day for all who celebrate!! Today is the 2nd anniversary of Lawyercat. To celebrate, here is the full and complete hearing from start to finish, with a few seconds at the end that you haven't seen! For the next year, may you all be here live and #NotaCat.
    https://twitter.com/JudgeFergusonTX/status/1623668045104431106
  • I wonder when Sturgeon is not going to correct the record for this:

    This is just flat out untrue. A GRC does give you extra rights. It gives you any rights that the Equality Act confers on the basis of sex but not on the basis of gender reassignment. A GRC stating you are a woman gives you all rights in the Equality Act reserved for women.

    https://twitter.com/michaelpforan/status/1623697198033641473
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    edited February 2023

    So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

    Quoting Scott Ritter as a source... hmmmm... how shall I put this....

    Seymour Hersh's marbles have left the building.
    Some fact checking of the Hersch pipeline story.
    https://twitter.com/Joey_Galvin/status/1623459664334659585

    It does have a certain plausibility in the alleged detail, but so far the known facts don't quite correspond with yer detail Hersch laid out.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    I suspect the politicians realise, but politically it's impossible to fix, at least for a Tory government. Maybe Sir Keir can be Nixon going to China.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    Sorry to hear you have had such a poor experience - our surgery has been brilliant for both me and my wife with separate issues, both swiftly resolved, and certainly in my case with an in person consult and examination on the day of the initial e-consult form.

    I think primary care is very postcode lottery right now.

    Re your low iron, and if this is personal please ignore, but have you explored the reasons behind it? Are you vegetarian, for instance? Its much more common in women (for obvious reasons) - my wife takes iron tablets fairly frequently when she is feeling more tired than normal.

    I also have some sympathy for GP's, as the symptoms as described ARE typical for depression, even if not for you. GP's do often fall into the trap of not fully listening to patients. I have a friend who is a very fit runner (2h 30 marathon) but who felt he wasn't quite right. Took 7 visits to get listened too, at which point tests revealed an underlying issue.

    Hopefully you will be improving soon!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    I wonder when Sturgeon is not going to correct the record for this:

    This is just flat out untrue. A GRC does give you extra rights. It gives you any rights that the Equality Act confers on the basis of sex but not on the basis of gender reassignment. A GRC stating you are a woman gives you all rights in the Equality Act reserved for women.

    https://twitter.com/michaelpforan/status/1623697198033641473

    What is odd is that the bill that Sturgeon put forward was *explicitly* to do that. Complete, no-dodging, no ifs or buts, change to the preferred gender.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,708

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    That's bad and glad to hear you've got diagnosed now. But I can offer a 'dote in the other direction. I've just had a medical check on the NHS and it's turned up - as I kind of expected with my drinking and smoking - high cholesterol and BP. I was called for a chat about it very promptly and offered medication and/or further monitoring. Really good explanation of the possible causes, the pros and cons of treatment, chance to attend a BP clinic, some more precautionary blood tests to check liver and kidney etc, the relevant drugs to be available straightaway at my nearest chemist, all very efficient and professional and all absolutely free. Whole thing is making me feel appreciative of 'the system' and quite valued by it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    Sorry to hear you have had such a poor experience - our surgery has been brilliant for both me and my wife with separate issues, both swiftly resolved, and certainly in my case with an in person consult and examination on the day of the initial e-consult form.

    I think primary care is very postcode lottery right now.

    Re your low iron, and if this is personal please ignore, but have you explored the reasons behind it? Are you vegetarian, for instance? Its much more common in women (for obvious reasons) - my wife takes iron tablets fairly frequently when she is feeling more tired than normal.

    I also have some sympathy for GP's, as the symptoms as described ARE typical for depression, even if not for you. GP's do often fall into the trap of not fully listening to patients. I have a friend who is a very fit runner (2h 30 marathon) but who felt he wasn't quite right. Took 7 visits to get listened too, at which point tests revealed an underlying issue.

    Hopefully you will be improving soon!
    I've noticed that younger GPs are more up for ordering a battery of tests "while we are taking blood, might ask well check lots of things". The older doctors seem to regard testing as something to be rationed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Hadn’t seen this before but Rishi’s wife uses her maiden name - with “Mrs”…The Prime Minister and Mrs Murty met parents, children and staff at the St Austell Family Hub in Cornwall today.

    👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 From pregnancy through to perinatal mental health and infant feeding, family hubs provide vital support so every child can get the best start in life.


    https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1623687244484644864

    I thought that was usual for women who marry but keep their maiden names? My wife did not take my surname and calls herself Mrs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
    Not fighting back has worked for DeSantis so far - it's rather seen as his ignoring Trump.
    Because the general public is not tuned in yet, as they will be in a primary campaign. If RDS tries to ignore an attack in a debate, he will look weak as hell.
    Of course.
    Though so far his direct riposte to Trump over owing his governorship to him was a pretty good one.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3837615-desantis-responds-to-trump-attacks-by-pointing-to-his-reelection/

    I am by no means a fan of DeSantis - I think he's potentially more dangerous than Trump - but he'll look far weaker if he doesn't run.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    edited February 2023
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2023
    Funny thread (except Anderson isn’t in the Cabinet…and usual “poke fun at Northern men tropes”….which no one would dare against an Irish woman, for example)

    (in Cabinet)

    RISHI: Okay gang. Tomorrow, a former Labour MP is likely going to be convicted of serious crimes
    ANDERSON: Dey should av 'ung him
    RISHI: Yes thank you Lee. Now if-
    CRAIG WILLIAMS: Sorry... but should that be 'hanged'?
    RISHI: What are you doing?
    WILLIAMS: The minutes


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    That you see it like that, while MoonRabbit is claiming the Democrats have nothing left once Biden is gone, is a good illustration of the folly of predicting a full electoral cycle ahead.

    It's unlikely all that many of us will be right about what happens next year. Predicting the winner for 2028 is a mug's game.
  • Hadn’t seen this before but Rishi’s wife uses her maiden name - with “Mrs”…The Prime Minister and Mrs Murty met parents, children and staff at the St Austell Family Hub in Cornwall today.

    👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 From pregnancy through to perinatal mental health and infant feeding, family hubs provide vital support so every child can get the best start in life.


    https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1623687244484644864

    I thought that was usual for women who marry but keep their maiden names? My wife did not take my surname and calls herself Mrs.
    My wife stuck with her surname and with Ms, no doubt to facilitate the anticipated divorce...
  • Bonnie & Clyde, Wallace & Gromit, Burke & Hare…..Sunak & Zelensky

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1623699088213434369
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
    Not fighting back has worked for DeSantis so far - it's rather seen as his ignoring Trump.
    Because the general public is not tuned in yet, as they will be in a primary campaign. If RDS tries to ignore an attack in a debate, he will look weak as hell.
    Of course.
    Though so far his direct riposte to Trump over owing his governorship to him was a pretty good one.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3837615-desantis-responds-to-trump-attacks-by-pointing-to-his-reelection/

    I am by no means a fan of DeSantis - I think he's potentially more dangerous than Trump - but he'll look far weaker if he doesn't run.
    This is perhaps suboptimal...

    DeSantis Responds to Trump Pervert Accusations From Between Towers of Diapers
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/02/trump-desantis-groomer-diapers-2024.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23310703.scottish-tory-cctv-taking-snp-leaflets-amid-stirling-by-election/?ref=ebbn

    Interesting point re electoral law. Does sabotage invalidate a candidacy if proven?

    Nice dog or dogs btw.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,708
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Bonnie & Clyde, Wallace & Gromit, Burke & Hare…..Sunak & Zelensky

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1623699088213434369

    The absolute state of the comments beneath that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    "Not long after Russia's invasion, Ukraine was given thousands of SpaceX Starlink dishes, which connect to satellites and help people stay connected to the internet.

    But now the company, founded by Elon Musk, has limited Ukraine's ability to use the service for military purposes following reports Kyiv used it to control drones."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-64580204
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23310703.scottish-tory-cctv-taking-snp-leaflets-amid-stirling-by-election/?ref=ebbn

    Interesting point re electoral law. Does sabotage invalidate a candidacy if proven?
    (Snip)

    I've no idea about the legality; but if proven, she deserves to not stand as a result of sheer stupidity. Doing something like that in the modern age, with private and public cameras everywhere, is stoopid.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Nigelb said:

    So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

    Quoting Scott Ritter as a source... hmmmm... how shall I put this....

    Seymour Hersh's marbles have left the building.
    Some fact checking of the Hersch pipeline story.
    https://twitter.com/Joey_Galvin/status/1623459664334659585

    It does have a certain plausibility in the alleged detail, but so far the known facts don't quite correspond with yer detail Hersch laid out.
    I hadn't read the paywalled Times article but... Norway participated? Really?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23310703.scottish-tory-cctv-taking-snp-leaflets-amid-stirling-by-election/?ref=ebbn

    Interesting point re electoral law. Does sabotage invalidate a candidacy if proven?

    Nice dog or dogs btw.

    Alistair Carmichael says no.

    In any case, as it wasn't the candidate himself, I don't imagine it would be possible to prove *he* had sabotaged it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    I fear this is probably not an example that Ireland is better than the UK (or Scotland...); just that the postcode lottery is working as usual. If you lived in a different place in Scotland, or had moved to a different place in Ireland, your experience may have been very different.

    But most of all: I'm glad you've discovered an issue that is controllable and fixable. Good luck with that and the depression.
    It isn't just regional. There are wonderful, and awful staff working in the same wards, and the same GP surgeries. It's pot luck who you interact with when.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23310703.scottish-tory-cctv-taking-snp-leaflets-amid-stirling-by-election/?ref=ebbn

    Interesting point re electoral law. Does sabotage invalidate a candidacy if proven?

    Nice dog or dogs btw.

    Alistair Carmichael says no.

    In any case, as it wasn't the candidate himself, I don't imagine it would be possible to prove *he* had sabotaged it.
    You may well be right on point 2. But IIRC the Carmichael case turned on a point of electoral law whereby telling whopping porkies to try to damage your electoral opponent, in an election, and against electoral law, was OK because reasons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    How many presidents really were though before they ran ?
  • The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    +1

    But is it not just because Ireland is much wealthier these days and therefore invests properly in public services?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    +1

    But is it not just because Ireland is much wealthier these days and therefore invests properly in public services?
    The amount of money spent on any of the NHSes is not the problem.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23310703.scottish-tory-cctv-taking-snp-leaflets-amid-stirling-by-election/?ref=ebbn

    Interesting point re electoral law. Does sabotage invalidate a candidacy if proven?

    Nice dog or dogs btw.

    Alistair Carmichael says no.

    In any case, as it wasn't the candidate himself, I don't imagine it would be possible to prove *he* had sabotaged it.
    You may well be right on point 2. But IIRC the Carmichael case turned on a point of electoral law whereby telling whopping porkies to try to damage your electoral opponent, in an election, and against electoral law, was OK because reasons.
    Edit:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14142167.carmichael-liar-hasnt-suffered-reputational-damage-suffered-reputational-obliteration/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/582985-buttigieg-has-high-name-recognition-favorability-rating-among-biden/
  • The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    +1

    But is it not just because Ireland is much wealthier these days and therefore invests properly in public services?
    Ireland isn’t “much wealthier” these days - it’s national GDP is distorted by tax dodging multinationals

    Irish GDP data is increasingly driven by the island's status as a global tax haven, especially for tech companies.

    Since the 2008 recession, GDP has doubled while household consumption has barely increased.


    https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1619733712752766979


  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    I won't be voting in the local elections this year as a protest against the ID law. Maybe others will do the same.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    MRD applies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    Graun: At the current rate it would take eight years to issue the documents to all those who could need them.

    10K issued, nigh on 2m need them.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,708
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/582985-buttigieg-has-high-name-recognition-favorability-rating-among-biden/
    Ok thanks. So 38% of people have a favourable opinion of him. At first sight doesn't sound so great cf the unpopular Harris at 36%. Although I'm guessing she also has a big UNfavourable score that he doesn't.

    Where are we getting this 'KH to the SC to make way for PB' intel from btw?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    MRD applies.
    Not really, the EC has always been happy to criticise the government.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    Graun: At the current rate it would take eight years to issue the documents to all those who could need them.

    10K issued, nigh on 2m need them.

    Ooh, do I believe the EC or the Guardian? Tough choice!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    I won't be voting in the local elections this year as a protest against the ID law. Maybe others will do the same.
    No elections in Dorset this May. If the GE is held in May 2024, our first experience of this will be the GE.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    +1

    But is it not just because Ireland is much wealthier these days and therefore invests properly in public services?
    Ireland much wealthier than in the 2000s? Are you actually mad?

    Granted, 2009 itself was something of a nadir, but really...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    Graun: At the current rate it would take eight years to issue the documents to all those who could need them.

    10K issued, nigh on 2m need them.

    Ooh, do I believe the EC or the Guardian? Tough choice!
    You're right. Nobody will ever believe the Electoral Commission.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,708
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    How many presidents really were though before they ran ?
    VP can be a launch pad but it doesn't seem to have worked for Harris. When Biden won she was my fav for next time but I'm glad I didn't bet that view.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    .

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the initial statistics showed it was “encouraging that people are already aware of the voter authority certificate and are applying early”.
    Graun: At the current rate it would take eight years to issue the documents to all those who could need them.

    10K issued, nigh on 2m need them.

    Ooh, do I believe the EC or the Guardian? Tough choice!
    It was the EC and the HoCL who provided the numbers. Basic arithmetic is hardly the preserve of the Grauniad.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Funny thread (except Anderson isn’t in the Cabinet…and usual “poke fun at Northern men tropes”….which no one would dare against an Irish woman, for example)

    (in Cabinet)

    RISHI: Okay gang. Tomorrow, a former Labour MP is likely going to be convicted of serious crimes
    ANDERSON: Dey should av 'ung him
    RISHI: Yes thank you Lee. Now if-
    CRAIG WILLIAMS: Sorry... but should that be 'hanged'?
    RISHI: What are you doing?
    WILLIAMS: The minutes


    30p Lee is s getting a great deal attention today. I doubt he believes any of his old nonsense, but his profile is going through the roof, particularly the hanging and the fruit picking flogging, so why not?

    Lee Anderson may have his jolly old North East Midlands accent heard by Tory cheerleaders, and he drops his "Hs" like a good 'un. I suspect Penny Mordaunt and her ilk who are busy calling 30p Lee authentic working class heroes whilst most likely, quietly hoping they never find themselves cornered at a social function by such an embarrassing oik.

    I too have a thick Midlands accent, a really nasty South Birmingham one which has hung millstone like, around my neck since childhood and would cast me as an ill-educated peasant in most gentile company.

    Lee Anderson's faux authenticity doesn't represent or speak for this working class scum.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    How many presidents really were though before they ran ?
    VP can be a launch pad but it doesn't seem to have worked for Harris. When Biden won she was my fav for next time but I'm glad I didn't bet that view.
    Before Biden only one former Vice President had been elected president in the previous fifty years - Bush Sr in 1988.

    (Discounting Ford, who was not elected, and interestingly, replaced the second consecutive former Vice President to be elected in his own right.)
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    Many people are frankly 'too stupid' as you put it to sort this out for themselves. Are they more likely to vote Labour or Tory? I don't know, but many are in social housing, have long-term health issues, and are living on benefits.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    No. It’s not a level playing field and that’s the issue . Do you seriously think no 10 would have put this through if they didn’t think it would help them .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    Quite so.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    Many people are frankly 'too stupid' as you put it to sort this out for themselves. Are they more likely to vote Labour or Tory? I don't know, but many are in social housing, have long-term health issues, and are living on benefits.
    How do they claim benefits without ID?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    No. It’s not a level playing field and that’s the issue . Do you seriously think no 10 would have put this through if they didn’t think it would help them .
    It was recommended by the Electoral Commission...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    .
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    This takes less time than actually going to vote. The biggest risk is people talking up how difficult it is for partisan reasons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195
    edited February 2023

    The NHS is shit.

    I've mentioned on here before that I've been receiving treatment for depression for a while, and during that period, about a year of which was spent in Scotland, I wasn't seen by a single doctor in person - all my consultations were over the phone.

    In one of these consultations I mentioned that I'd been uncharacteristically tired, sleeping during the day, and I thought it might be a post-Covid symptom, but it was brushed off as a typical symptom of depression, though my depression had never presented in that way before.

    I've recently moved to Ireland, which I'd always thought had an even worse health system than Britain, and had an appointment with a GP, in person, recently for a repeat prescription. They decided to order some blood tests, and the result of these tests is that I am severely iron-deficient, and the resulting anaemia would explain my extreme tiredness and lethargy, which hasn't helped to deal with my depression.

    With iron supplements I should start to feel more energetic relatively quickly, but under the care of the NHS this would have remained undiagnosed.

    My wife moved from Ireland to live with me in 2009, and her experience was the main reason I thought the Irish health system was worse than the NHS, but she says it is clear that it has deteriorated severely since then.

    It's obvious to a lot of people in Britain that the NHS is struggling, but you don't know the half of it until you experience health care in another modern European country. It is so much worse then you realise. You deserve better.

    Iron supplementation should help, but Iron deficiency is often caused by bleeding somewhere. If it isn't obvious where it is from it needs checking out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    This takes less time than actually going to vote. The biggest risk is people talking up how difficult it is for partisan reasons.
    You're downplaying it for partisan reasons.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
    Deleted - rules have changed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
    Because there was an organised scheme to do that for everyone.

    Here, this is jusr to throw a few tokens in the way of the poorest and leastd capable in society.
    No more than is being done here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,708
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    How many presidents really were though before they ran ?
    VP can be a launch pad but it doesn't seem to have worked for Harris. When Biden won she was my fav for next time but I'm glad I didn't bet that view.
    Before Biden only one former Vice President had been elected president in the previous fifty years - Bush Sr in 1988.

    (Discounting Ford, who was not elected, and interestingly, replaced the second consecutive former Vice President to be elected in his own right.)
    That's true. Although - you'll like this - we maybe shouldn't count LBJ as an elected former VP because by the time he was elected it was as an incumbent President.

    Also, both Biden and Nixon were elected as former VPs - yes - but in neither case were they a current VP trying to upgrade via election to P.

    So, what Bush 88 did - which intuitively feels like a common occurrence - is actually v rare in modern times.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    PB has a long and distinguished history of being middle-class. Or for some of the leftists, upper working-class, aspiring middle. For us, the addition of a burden of an extra check when going to France is intolerable, compared to the cost of the journey. we cannot imagine people for whom the idea of a foreign holiday is unattainable for cost reasons.

    But requiring an ID at an election is no imposition. We drive. We travel. We read PB, and therefore know the new requirements. How can anyone not have a suitable ID, and know they need to produce it?

    Anyone who doesn't have the ID, or know it's required: it's *their* fault. Bah. They don't deserve the vote...

    (Witness the millions of silent voices)
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    This takes less time than actually going to vote. The biggest risk is people talking up how difficult it is for partisan reasons.
    You're downplaying it for partisan reasons.
    No, I'm not - I've always supported voter ID for the same reasons that the EC does.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
    Was responding to "when people come in to get Id".
  • Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
    22 years ago? Yes, there are other issues that need to be tackled - but that does not mean necessarily that this shouldn’t be done.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
    Was responding to "when people come in to get Id".
    I would imagine if someone visited a council office to get ID an employee with a smartphone or PC/webcam would be prepared to go through the form with them - certainly if an ERO I'd get the team set up to expect that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
    Because there was an organised scheme to do that for everyone.

    Here, this is jusr to throw a few tokens in the way of the poorest and leastd capable in society.
    No more than is being done here.
    I'm not at all sure of that - it was a much more salient issue at the time. At a time when the media where much more centralised and TV and radio ads got to people much more.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    PB has a long and distinguished history of being middle-class. Or for some of the leftists, upper working-class, aspiring middle. For us, the addition of a burden of an extra check when going to France is intolerable, compared to the cost of the journey. we cannot imagine people for whom the idea of a foreign holiday is unattainable for cost reasons.

    But requiring an ID at an election is no imposition. We drive. We travel. We read PB, and therefore know the new requirements. How can anyone not have a suitable ID, and know they need to produce it?

    Anyone who doesn't have the ID, or know it's required: it's *their* fault. Bah. They don't deserve the vote...

    (Witness the millions of silent voices)
    Yep, it's always the "why don't they eat brioche" or "why don't they have an iphone?"

    Every barrier, every little hassle, helps increase the Tory vote.
  • Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
    Was responding to "when people come in to get Id".
    I would imagine if someone visited a council office to get ID an employee with a smartphone or PC/webcam would be prepared to go through the form with them - certainly if an ERO I'd get the team set up to expect that.
    "visited a council office..." LOL have you had any interactions with local government since Osborne gutted their budgets?
  • Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    Why not ask Northern Ireland? - this is simply matching what they did.
    Because there was an organised scheme to do that for everyone.

    Here, this is jusr to throw a few tokens in the way of the poorest and leastd capable in society.
    No more than is being done here.
    I'm not at all sure of that - it was a much more salient issue at the time. At a time when the media where much more centralised and TV and radio ads got to people much more.
    Even the devolved specimens who vote PUP managed to vote. That makes it a pretty low bar.

    The only complaint I recall, were certain parties complaining that their voters were being disenfranchised by removing all the dead people from the electoral roll.

    Thanatophobia bunch, the Northern Irish electoral commission.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
    Was responding to "when people come in to get Id".
    I would imagine if someone visited a council office to get ID an employee with a smartphone or PC/webcam would be prepared to go through the form with them - certainly if an ERO I'd get the team set up to expect that.
    "visited a council office..." LOL have you had any interactions with local government since Osborne gutted their budgets?
    Um, where else would one "come in to get Id"?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

    Was discussing paper forms if one can't use a camera.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    Many people are frankly 'too stupid' as you put it to sort this out for themselves. Are they more likely to vote Labour or Tory? I don't know, but many are in social housing, have long-term health issues, and are living on benefits.
    How do they claim benefits without ID?
    They have to visit a Jobcentre Plus
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    edited February 2023

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    Many people are frankly 'too stupid' as you put it to sort this out for themselves. Are they more likely to vote Labour or Tory? I don't know, but many are in social housing, have long-term health issues, and are living on benefits.
    How do they claim benefits without ID?
    They have to visit a Jobcentre Plus
    Indeed so. I'm familiar with the process as it was a few years ago, and I doubt it's changed - it involves going to a JCP with ID.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Driver said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    But they do need help. Don't you have an elderly or disabled relative? And can't you see that they have to prioritise things like sorting out the electricity board first?
    This takes less time than actually going to vote. The biggest risk is people talking up how difficult it is for partisan reasons.
    With the Tories getting so many votes from low information voters post Brexit it's not even clear to me that this will help them. But I actually don't care. What bothers me is that we are disenfranchising a load of vulnerable and marginalised people from the democratic process, people whose voices are already barely heard in the corridors of power. And all to fix a "problem" whose magnitude barely registers. For anyone who cares about the health of our democracy this has to be deeply troubling.
    You have to remember the Tories alrteady benefit disproportionately from the postal vote.

    Ofx course, changing to a postal vote resolves the ID electoral pass issue.

    Eh? To sort out the small problem with attending in person, they are making the big problem of the postal vite even bigger?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
    But previously they would bother to vote? That doesn't seem at all logical.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
    But previously they would bother to vote? That doesn't seem at all logical.
    It's one thing to vote just down the road with the card that comes in the post. It's quite another when ytou need to sort out the ID first.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
    But previously they would bother to vote? That doesn't seem at all logical.
    It's one thing to vote just down the road with the card that comes in the post. It's quite another when ytou need to sort out the ID first.
    But the card doesn't just "come in the post", you need to bother to register first.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
    But previously they would bother to vote? That doesn't seem at all logical.
    It's one thing to vote just down the road with the card that comes in the post. It's quite another when ytou need to sort out the ID first.
    But the card doesn't just "come in the post", you need to bother to register first.
    On the documents that come [edit] automatically to every house in the UK in the post with reply paid envelopes. (I'm talking abotut he postcard that every elector gets when an election is due.)

  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    edited February 2023
    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    What is to stop the next labour government from introducing restrictions in postal voting?

    Say you have to sign up to a website or app and upload a image of your ID with a specific resolution/format in order to be eligible.

    Are oldies too stupid to use the internet?
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

    Was discussing paper forms if one can't use a camera.
    As of 2021, 88% of all adults in the UK had a smartphone. When broken down by age, 96% of those aged 16-24 owned a smartphone device compared to 78% aged 55 and above.

    These figures have increased dramatically since 2008, when only 17% of adults had a smartphone. In 2008, only 4% of people in the 55+ age bracket owned a phone, compared to 29% of 16-24-year-olds.


    https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/studies/mobile-statistics/

    So 22% of the over 55s don’t own a smart phone - but we don’t know how many of them don’t have access to one - friends, family etc. Northern Ireland introduced this 22 years ago before smart phones existed.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    No, you don't. You can do that, but you can also do it entirely online.
    Was responding to "when people come in to get Id".
    I would imagine if someone visited a council office to get ID an employee with a smartphone or PC/webcam would be prepared to go through the form with them - certainly if an ERO I'd get the team set up to expect that.
    "visited a council office..." LOL have you had any interactions with local government since Osborne gutted their budgets?
    Um, where else would one "come in to get Id"?
    Lot of them seem to be working from home at the moment. That caused a bit of an issue for one person I saw in Gloucester trying to sort out their council tax with Gloucester City Council whose phone and internet hadn't yet been connected and who had no phone signal where they lived due to a broken mast. In desperation, they went to Shire Hall, who told them they couldn't help.

    I thought they had it even tougher than I did and I was there to register my father's death!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    The voter ID requirements are nothing but a blatant attempt by the Tories to reduce those voting for opposition parties .

    There has never been an issue with voter fraud in the UK. In European countries where ID is required they already have ID cards which legally all adults must have so it’s a level playing field .

    Why do you think left-wing voters are too stupid to get a free ID?
    Whets to stop the next labour government from introducing restrictions in postal voting?
    I wouldn't necessarily object to that, I'm not sure postal voting on demand is necessary or secure.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.



    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    I can see a lot of councils needing to have a digital camera ready to go in reception when people come in to get Id.

    Heck I don't need a photo id as I'm a postal voter (where fraud is way more rampant) and have both a passport and driving licence but I would be tempted to waste an hour to get a voter id card on principle of giving them work to do for being stupid.
    You can't do that. You have to *post* a form, with a physical photo, to your local elevctoral registration office. Where does the photo come from? Either a photo booth or a decent printer.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

    Was discussing paper forms if one can't use a camera.
    As of 2021, 88% of all adults in the UK had a smartphone. When broken down by age, 96% of those aged 16-24 owned a smartphone device compared to 78% aged 55 and above.

    These figures have increased dramatically since 2008, when only 17% of adults had a smartphone. In 2008, only 4% of people in the 55+ age bracket owned a phone, compared to 29% of 16-24-year-olds.


    https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/studies/mobile-statistics/

    So 22% of the over 55s don’t own a smart phone - but we don’t know how many of them don’t have access to one - friends, family etc. Northern Ireland introduced this 22 years ago before smart phones existed.

    Quite - and they would have been aware of that and not said "no smartphone, piss off",.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
    If Biden is re elected after replacing Harris with Buttigieg then VP Buttigieg could certainly win 2 further terms for the Democrats.

    If the GOP don't win in 2024 they could be out of the White House for their longest period since FDR and Truman
    Ah so you think Pete B has the Right Stuff. That's interesting. He's impressive but I didn't think he was that popular.
    How many presidents really were though before they ran ?
    VP can be a launch pad but it doesn't seem to have worked for Harris. When Biden won she was my fav for next time but I'm glad I didn't bet that view.
    Before Biden only one former Vice President had been elected president in the previous fifty years - Bush Sr in 1988.

    (Discounting Ford, who was not elected, and interestingly, replaced the second consecutive former Vice President to be elected in his own right.)
    That's true. Although - you'll like this - we maybe shouldn't count LBJ as an elected former VP because by the time he was elected it was as an incumbent President.

    Also, both Biden and Nixon were elected as former VPs - yes - but in neither case were they a current VP trying to upgrade via election to P.

    So, what Bush 88 did - which intuitively feels like a common occurrence - is actually v rare in modern times.
    And the winner for today's PedanticBetting.com arcane knowledge award is *drumroll* KINABALU by the proverbial distance :smile:
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/31/only-10000-people-in-uk-have-applied-for-government-issued-voter-id

    May's local elections could turn into a disastrous exercise in disenfranchisement. The unemployed and the disabled especially likely to not have the required ID.

    Any old mobey snap won't do. Probably need to go to a photo booth. Too far? Too expensive? Too hard to get your wheelchair in? THis digital stuff all incomprehensible to you? Tough, you're not wanted.

    HMG:

    " Photo guidelines

    Your digital photo must be:

    clear and in focus
    in colour
    against a plain, light-coloured background
    your true likeness, with no photoshop or filters
    at least 600×750 pixels
    JPG, PNG or GIF format — min 50KB, max 20MB

    In your photo you must:

    face forwards, looking straight at the camera
    be alone, with no other objects or people
    have a plain expression
    have eyes open and visible, with no hair in front of them
    not wear sunglasses, but normal glasses are fine if you typically wear them
    not have a head covering (apart from religious or medical reasons)
    not have ‘red-eye’, glare or shadows over your face"

    https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/apply
    The technical requirements in the first part are easily met by any phone camera of the last 10 years.

    The requirements of the second part are trivially easy to meet.
    I see a lot of people at Citizens Advice for whom this will be too complicated without help. Most will probably just not be bothered.
    If this is too complicated, how do they get through ordinary normal life? If they need help for that then they can use the same help for this, surely?
    Driver, many of them struggle to get through ordinary life. Since this isn't going to put food on the table or heat their homes, many will simply not bother.
    But previously they would bother to vote? That doesn't seem at all logical.
    It's one thing to vote just down the road with the card that comes in the post. It's quite another when ytou need to sort out the ID first.
    But the card doesn't just "come in the post", you need to bother to register first.
    On the documents that come [edit] automatically to every house in the UK in the post with reply paid envelopes. (I'm talking abotut he postcard that every elector gets when an election is due.)

    I assumed you meant the poll card. You can't get one of those without bothering to register first.

    One improvement definitely does need to be made, though - at present the online registration form doesn't mention ID, and it absolutely should.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Northern Ireland has a history of people thinking there was electoral fraud going on, but there is basically no evidence that plural voting was a big problem. Intimidation of electors for sure, but that was a lot simpler than voting early and often. That perception is probably why they have stricter voter ID rules than its neighbouring jurisdictions. The costs are similar, but the perceived benefits are greater. A cynic might also say that the early-2000s UUP and SDLP thought it was overall in their interest to exclude the poorer and younger socio-economic groups.
This discussion has been closed.