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Biden edges up to become WH2024 betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited February 2023 in General
imageBiden edges up to become WH2024 betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

After his punchy State of the Union address this week the betting money has started to flow back onto Joe Biden to win the 2024 presidential election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jared O Mara sentenced to 4 years in jail

    Bloody hell. I thought he had might get twelve months, but four years? That is a very long time, unless I have much misunderstood the charges.
    After the expenses scandal, the sums were larger but jail sentences were around 1 year.

    Something has made a difference - perhaps the raised expectations and setting up a charity for th purposes of extracting money. Need to see the sentencing remarks.
    McGabble got 6 months I think, and served 4. He was submitting false receipts for £10k's, fake subscriptions and services, falsely claiming his garage was his office.....I don't think he had even had an mitigating factors around being a drug addict with mental health problems.

    There were some very lucky MPs who had rental agreements that looked extremely dodgy to say the least, no contract, no receipts, paid to mates.
  • "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.
  • Don't misunderestimate Joe Biden.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Lay the favourite
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Dark Brandon is awesome.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    “Grandpa” Marsh finds that rather offensive.

    That was possibly the worst SOTU of all time - and Tump did some of them.
  • So all that talk about chatbots and 'the college essay is dead' was a bit previous then.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited February 2023
    kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Did it, he ended up howling at the moon, making very little sense. Something or other about nobody wanting to swap with Winnie the Pooh to be leader of China.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    Don't misunderestimate Joe Biden.

    Here's the deal - he'll beat Trump again in the unlikely event that's the match up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
    Yes. Both Biden and Trump have a non-zero chance of imploding, and DeSantis is sitting this one out.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Did it, he ended up howling at the moon, making very little sense. Something or other about nobody wanting to swap with Winnie the Pooh to be leader of China.
    You're the one with cognitive issues if you think he's senile. Have you had a check?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
    Yes. Both Biden and Trump have a non-zero chance of imploding, and DeSantis is sitting this one out.
    I'm not sure you're right about RDS there. I think he runs but I also think he's vulnerable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited February 2023
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Did it, he ended up howling at the moon, making very little sense. Something or other about nobody wanting to swap with Winnie the Pooh to be leader of China.
    You're the one with cognitive issues if you think he's senile. Have you had a check?
    No senility in evidence at the SOTU.
  • kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Or he had a good half hour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    For @JosiasJessop - looks like today is 33 engine static fire day

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg
  • So all that talk about chatbots and 'the college essay is dead' was a bit previous then.

    Not really, you just write an essay in one chatbot and then tell another one to mark it. Can't get on to chatgpt now but i bet it would pick up the error.
  • Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
    Yes. Both Biden and Trump have a non-zero chance of imploding, and DeSantis is sitting this one out.
    My advice to Ron is

    ‘Chlamydia can be cured but there’s no cure for regret.’
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Or he had a good half hour.
    This is starting to sound like Boris Johnson Is Wholly Owned By Russia - "His actions say he isn't. So he is just hiding it well"

    Is De Santis made of wood? do we have a duck to weigh him against?

    Starmer being middle of the road on policy is evidence that he is both a Hard Right Ultra Tory and A Communist To The Left of Mao?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Very much on topic, there’s supposed to be a discussion about the State of the Union speech between Amercian Conservative Dave Rubin, and Liberal Peter Boghossian, on Rubin’s Youtube channel in the next few minutes.
    https://youtube.com/@RubinReport/featured

    I have to run away for a couple of hours, because I have a wife and dinner!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
    Yes. Both Biden and Trump have a non-zero chance of imploding, and DeSantis is sitting this one out.
    My advice to Ron is

    ‘Chlamydia can be cured but there’s no cure for regret.’
    1800 Edicion del Nuevo Milenio Gran Reserva Tequila Anejo cures regret.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite

    You can do worse than lay all the top 3 imo.
    Yes. Both Biden and Trump have a non-zero chance of imploding, and DeSantis is sitting this one out.
    My advice to Ron is

    ‘Chlamydia can be cured but there’s no cure for regret.’
    But very few get a second chance at the top job.

    Unless both of the other two favourites are clearly out in the next six months, he’ll bide his time..
    (Born 1978, same as your good self).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
  • Biden smashed it at the State of the Union and left various GOPers looking like the fuckwits they are.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937
    The lesson to be learned? Don't **** with Nick Clegg!
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Biden smashed it at the State of the Union and left various GOPers looking like the fuckwits they are.

    And Trump is now tearing into RDS, who seems like a rabbit in the headlights.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512

    For @JosiasJessop - looks like today is 33 engine static fire day

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

    Thanks; already have that open in a tab. :)

    Squeaky bum time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314
    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    You are making the assumption that 2028 won't be a Trump dominated sh!t-show.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,165
    edited February 2023

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    Yes, and that is the strength of Biden. He is a mainstream moderate American. Hard to lay a glove on, except by the most demented Q Anon types.
  • EDIT - I would love to have been a fly on the wall both when he was selected and then when they realised they had elected a ticking bomb. Former constituency of mine so interested.

    They were supposed to have Oliver Coppard - who is now Mayor of Sarf Yorkshire. But he had to drop out and as I understand it O'Mara was a Corbynite parachutee.

    So it sounds like the vetting process was if he pledged fealty to Jezbollah and would wind up the constituency. Which happened a lot. In Stockton South we managed to avoid having Jessie Jessie Jessie Jo Jacobs imposed on us by doing a backroom deal with the regional director. So the "selection" of Dr Paul Williams over JJJ was literally a couple of us on the phone bagging him quicker than Momentum could get JJJJJ imposed over the regional director's head.

    Who did the bagging for O'Mara then...?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    WillG said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    You are making the assumption that 2028 won't be a Trump dominated sh!t-show.
    Yes, I’m making that assumption!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    The lesson to be learned? Don't **** with Nick Clegg!
    That's too meta for me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    If he has any ambition for the presidency, he'll run this time.
    And he does.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849675-desantis-edges-closer-to-2024-decision/

    If he chickens out, his numerous boosters in the GOP will be looking elsewhere in four years time. And there's no guarantee his governorship will look as shiny by then; quite the opposite.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
    'Biden coup' and 'Trump revolution' are something of a giveaway.

    Whether that makes him a Republican or just a loon is another question.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Has previous polling this far out ever really offered much guide as to eventual shake down at all though?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    WillG said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    You are making the assumption that 2028 won't be a Trump dominated sh!t-show.
    You're assuming Trump isn't done already.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669
    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650

    The lesson to be learned? Don't **** with Nick Clegg!
    I will drop a message to the Yorkshire Party to see if we can have him deported and banned from Yorkshire the moment he comes out.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    Because they missed out on Monica?
  • Fire up the Gary Neville....

    New European Super League announced, to replace Champions League

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/09/european-super-league-new-tournament-to-replace-champions-league/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    ydoethur said:

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
    'Biden coup' and 'Trump revolution' are something of a giveaway.

    Whether that makes him a Republican or just a loon is another question.
    Loons have votes too.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955

    Fire up the Gary Neville....

    New European Super League announced, to replace Champions League

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/09/european-super-league-new-tournament-to-replace-champions-league/

    Another one? These are like buses.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jared O Mara sentenced to 4 years in jail

    Bloody hell. I thought he had might get twelve months, but four years? That is a very long time, unless I have much misunderstood the charges.
    After the expenses scandal, the sums were larger but jail sentences were around 1 year.

    Something has made a difference - perhaps the raised expectations and setting up a charity for th purposes of extracting money. Need to see the sentencing remarks.
    McGabble got 6 months I think, and served 4. He was submitting false receipts for £10k's, fake subscriptions and services, falsely claiming his garage was his office.....I don't think he had even had an mitigating factors around being a drug addict with mental health problems.

    There were some very lucky MPs who had rental agreements that looked extremely dodgy to say the least, no contract, no receipts, paid to mates.
    There were a *lot* of very lucky MPs.

    Mortgage flipping, for a start.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited February 2023
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jared O Mara sentenced to 4 years in jail

    Bloody hell. I thought he had might get twelve months, but four years? That is a very long time, unless I have much misunderstood the charges.
    After the expenses scandal, the sums were larger but jail sentences were around 1 year.

    Something has made a difference - perhaps the raised expectations and setting up a charity for th purposes of extracting money. Need to see the sentencing remarks.
    McGabble got 6 months I think, and served 4. He was submitting false receipts for £10k's, fake subscriptions and services, falsely claiming his garage was his office.....I don't think he had even had an mitigating factors around being a drug addict with mental health problems.

    There were some very lucky MPs who had rental agreements that looked extremely dodgy to say the least, no contract, no receipts, paid to mates.
    There were a *lot* of very lucky MPs.

    Mortgage flipping, for a start.
    Well there is where the difference between immoral and illegal. Paying rent to a friend with no receipts or contract or paying rent to live with somebody who you then hand out public money to, is a slightly different matter from the rules let me keep flipping to different properties.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    edited February 2023
    Interesting insight into the minds of this government?

    “Northern Ireland election delayed until January 2024, as government remains in limbo”

    They think January elections are do able, despite campaigning over Christmas, risk of stay at home weather warnings etc.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    If he has any ambition for the presidency, he'll run this time.
    And he does.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849675-desantis-edges-closer-to-2024-decision/

    If he chickens out, his numerous boosters in the GOP will be looking elsewhere in four years time. And there's no guarantee his governorship will look as shiny by then; quite the opposite.

    In four years time, Trump will be too old and whichever of Trump and Biden wins in 2024 will be term-limited in 2028. DeSantis's main danger (other than events, dear boy, events) will be if some other non-Trump Republican runs and wins this time round so will be incumbent in 2028, but the (current!) polls show that's not going to happen. But if DeSantis runs now and loses, whether to Trump or Biden, it's game over.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
    Not sure about "60% of the speech sounded like Trump" though!

    That's an odd sort of compliment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    MattW said:

    Fire up the Gary Neville....

    New European Super League announced, to replace Champions League

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/09/european-super-league-new-tournament-to-replace-champions-league/

    Another one? These are like buses.
    The English and German clubs won't join so its dead in the water. A super league of Real, Barca, PSG, Juve, Inter and Milan doesn't feel that super.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
    It’s very surprising coming from him - Louis Theroux did a doc on BBC where he spent time with Fuentes and he’s a vile vile piece of shit but not stupid, cynical maybe, so Republicans will be listening.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    If he has any ambition for the presidency, he'll run this time.
    And he does.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849675-desantis-edges-closer-to-2024-decision/

    If he chickens out, his numerous boosters in the GOP will be looking elsewhere in four years time. And there's no guarantee his governorship will look as shiny by then; quite the opposite.

    In four years time, Trump will be too old and whichever of Trump and Biden wins in 2024 will be term-limited in 2028. DeSantis's main danger (other than events, dear boy, events) will be if some other non-Trump Republican runs and wins this time round so will be incumbent in 2028, but the (current!) polls show that's not going to happen. But if DeSantis runs now and loses, whether to Trump or Biden, it's game over.
    I wouldn't plan on an 82 year old Trump not running in 2028.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Harris is too old for the SC.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited February 2023
    boulay said:

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    That’s really sharp and intelligent analysis. Are we really sure he’s a Republican? 🤔
    It’s very surprising coming from him - Louis Theroux did a doc on BBC where he spent time with Fuentes and he’s a vile vile piece of shit but not stupid, cynical maybe, so Republicans will be listening.
    He is the American Tommy Robinson or Nick Griffin. If you remember Nick Griffin BNP "manifesto" once you got past the race element, was actually very left wing...nationalise everything, buy British, stop cheap imports, open the mines, the factories, etc etc etc.

    The biggest take down of Griffin wasn't the QT appearance, it was when interviewed by Iain Dale. Where Dale said ok, we know your views on immigration etc, lets talk about your other ideas, and because it took him away from his stock area of race he totally blew up as he had no idea how any of the Corbynista type policies could be made possible.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419

    Interesting insight into the minds of this government?

    “Northern Ireland election delayed until January 2024, as government remains in limbo”

    They think January elections are do able, despite campaigning over Christmas, risk of stay at home weather warnings etc.

    Hmm. Making the Nirish do it is a lot different from making the British (North Island) do it.
  • Interesting insight into the minds of this government?

    “Northern Ireland election delayed until January 2024, as government remains in limbo”

    They think January elections are do able, despite campaigning over Christmas, risk of stay at home weather warnings etc.

    I think you misunderstood

    Parties now have until 18 January 2024 to form an executive - if they fail, a new election will then be held within 12 weeks of that date.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
    Not fighting back has worked for DeSantis so far - it's rather seen as his ignoring Trump.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    What's he capped the price of insulin at?

    Currently USA insulin price is around 8-15 times higher than Europe.

    https://aspe.hhs.gov/reports/comparing-insulin-prices-us-other-countries
  • Anyway, its Starship day. 33 Raptors to burn together making previous super heavy rockets look like kids toys.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    kinabalu said:

    "punchy State of the Union address" - that's one way of putting it, it more reminded me of the "Grandpa" Marsh out of South Park.

    But what it did do was show that all the 'senile' talk is way off beam.
    Or he had a good half hour.
    He did. But he's very much in this world rather than one of his own - that's what I really mean. My mum sadly is senile now. It's not about frailty and gaffes it's about losing grip on what's what.

    She was ok (ish) just say 3 months ago but now - no. Which illustrates what I think the real risk with Biden is and why he kind of is too old to run again in an ideal world. He's fine now but could be struggling at some point in a 2nd term.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    If he has any ambition for the presidency, he'll run this time.
    And he does.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849675-desantis-edges-closer-to-2024-decision/

    If he chickens out, his numerous boosters in the GOP will be looking elsewhere in four years time. And there's no guarantee his governorship will look as shiny by then; quite the opposite.

    In four years time, Trump will be too old and whichever of Trump and Biden wins in 2024 will be term-limited in 2028. DeSantis's main danger (other than events, dear boy, events) will be if some other non-Trump Republican runs and wins this time round so will be incumbent in 2028, but the (current!) polls show that's not going to happen. But if DeSantis runs now and loses, whether to Trump or Biden, it's game over.
    And even if that all happens, DeSantis will only be aged 53 in 2032. Still young by Presidential standards.
  • So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If Biden is re elected and as rumoured moves Harris to the SC and replaces her with Buttigieg as his VP, the Democrats could be in the White House for 16 years.

    Beating Biden in 2024 may be the only chance Republicans get to become President for a generation
    Really? Why so pessimistic for the GOP over that timeframe?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    Biden adds a bit of needle to DeSantis's deliberations.

    Biden's potential lifeline for Florida Democrats
    “They have not given up. To the contrary, they are going to fight," said Rep. Kathy Castor.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/09/bidens-potential-lifeline-for-florida-democrats-00081954
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it? On that basis, the future of the Whitehouse is in GOP hands isn’t it, Democrats locked out for several decades due to dearth of presidential material waiting in the wings?

    This thread is very close to being one topic! Have we exhausted all there is to say about lavatory hygiene?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    "Turkey and Syria earthquake: Bodies found in search for volleyball team"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64579269

    Fuckit. Shitting hell fuckit basteward.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913

    Anyway, its Starship day. 33 Raptors to burn together making previous super heavy rockets look like kids toys.

    Wheer did you find this?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited February 2023
    Jo Gideon (Stoke Central) stepping down at the next GE
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650

    Interesting insight into the minds of this government?

    “Northern Ireland election delayed until January 2024, as government remains in limbo”

    They think January elections are do able, despite campaigning over Christmas, risk of stay at home weather warnings etc.

    I think you misunderstood

    Parties now have until 18 January 2024 to form an executive - if they fail, a new election will then be held within 12 weeks of that date.
    Yes I misunderstood. 🫡
  • Omnium said:

    Anyway, its Starship day. 33 Raptors to burn together making previous super heavy rockets look like kids toys.

    Wheer did you find this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    If he has any ambition for the presidency, he'll run this time.
    And he does.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849675-desantis-edges-closer-to-2024-decision/

    If he chickens out, his numerous boosters in the GOP will be looking elsewhere in four years time. And there's no guarantee his governorship will look as shiny by then; quite the opposite.

    In four years time, Trump will be too old and whichever of Trump and Biden wins in 2024 will be term-limited in 2028. DeSantis's main danger (other than events, dear boy, events) will be if some other non-Trump Republican runs and wins this time round so will be incumbent in 2028, but the (current!) polls show that's not going to happen. But if DeSantis runs now and loses, whether to Trump or Biden, it's game over.
    "Other than events" is not a bad example of what begging the question means.
    You've laid out an argument, and elided the most significant bit of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it?
    No.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited February 2023
    Omnium said:

    Anyway, its Starship day. 33 Raptors to burn together making previous super heavy rockets look like kids toys.

    Wheer did you find this?
    Livestream from Texas at - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

    EDIT: If you want to keep up with space stuff, read nasaspaceflight.com. Despite the name, it covers rocketry worldwide. The contributors include a lot of people in the industry.
  • WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
    That's astute analysis. The other thing that works for Trump in my view is that your 45% middle group align more naturally with the 40% group, especially in the privacy of the polling station where nobody is watching. And I reckon the 15% is declining in size each year as the Republican brand becomes debased and smart younger voters find it harder to align with the intellectual case for conservatism.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913
    edited February 2023

    Omnium said:

    Anyway, its Starship day. 33 Raptors to burn together making previous super heavy rockets look like kids toys.

    Wheer did you find this?
    Livestream from Texas at - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

    EDIT: If you want to keep up with space stuff, read nasaspaceflight.com. Despite the name, it covers rocketry worldwide. The contributors include a lot of people in the industry.
    Thanks very much M.

    And thanks too to RP, who I see provided the link as well.
  • Burt Bacharach nae moor.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    MattW said:

    WillG said:

    Dark Brandon is awesome.

    Even some MAGA types are impressed.

    image
    What's he capped the price of insulin at?

    Currently USA insulin price is around 8-15 times higher than Europe.

    https://aspe.hhs.gov/reports/comparing-insulin-prices-us-other-countries
    The proposal is to cap Medicaid Copay (ie patient contribution) to $35 per month.

    Which sounds expensive for the US Government if they don't get at the supply side.

    No impact on medical insurance companies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited February 2023

    So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

    Quoting Scott Ritter as a source... hmmmm... how shall I put this....

    Seymour Hersh's marbles have left the building.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it? ...
    Though it's a fair point that the Democratic bench is likely to be significantly stronger in four years time.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden's speech went down well and offered a key wedge issue for him and the Democrats with the GOP in terms of preserving Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

    Trump meanwhile leads DeSantis 42% to 32% in new Yougov of GOP voters

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    The basic problem for Republicans is the breakdown of their primary electorate after decades of Fox News and talk radio. I would describe it as follows:

    40% - the "F*ck You Republicans". Typically rural whites or blue collar whites that actively delight in their politicians being active assholes to those outside their group.

    45% - the "Strength and Decorum Republicans". Higher income folks that want their tax cuts and hate being imposed on. They want someone strong to fight back against Democrats but want it done in a way that doesn't make them embarrassed in polite company.

    15% - the "Civil and Intellectual Republicans". People that have studies conservative theory, believe in liberal democracy and are intellectually consistent.

    Trump obviously scoops up the 40% very quickly because he is the most unrestrained asshole out there. Now in theory the second two groups can join forces to defeat Trump, and polling sometimes suggests this.

    But as soon as the primary starts, Trump tears down his rivals and it doesn't hurt him with his 40%, because they like him being an asshole. The victim is now screwed. If they don't fight back and remain above the fray, they seem weak and lose support among the second group. If they do fight back, the Trumpians hate him for attacking their guy, while the Strength and Decorum guys feel he is no better than Trump so he doesn't consolidate them. And the Civil ones go right off him.

    And of course, if there are more than two opponents to Trump, Trump romps home in a divided field.
    Not fighting back has worked for DeSantis so far - it's rather seen as his ignoring Trump.
    Because the general public is not tuned in yet, as they will be in a primary campaign. If RDS tries to ignore an attack in a debate, he will look weak as hell.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    RIP Burt Bacharach.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it?
    No.
    You say no (I can’t give you a like for replying for just one word reply)
    I still convinced Biden the last Democratic President for quite a long while.
    In fact the response to Buttelgeig, Harris, Sanders, Newsome, Klubacher, is more than no, it’s good grief!
    What are you going to say, only recently elected Pritzker, flaky weirdo Shapiro, or the even more deeply untrustworthy libertarian Polis? Absolutely none of these names will ever get remotely near the presidency in a battle with a Republican candidate (we all saw how Hilary was turned into mincemeat). Except perhaps the anti lockdown chancer Polis. And even then as an outside bet.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it? ...
    Though it's a fair point that the Democratic bench is likely to be significantly stronger in four years time.
    The US has the same problem we have. The politicians of the future are 'issue' politicians. What we and they need are politicians that can embrace the big and diverse. We're not going to get that though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314
    Nigelb said:

    RIP Burt Bacharach.

    I say a little prayer.
  • So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

    Quoting Scott Ritter as a source... hmmmm... how shall I put this....

    Seymour Hersh's marbles have left the building.
    I’m sure it’s a coincidence that his “investigations” tend to exonerate Russia or it’s Proxies and implicate their opponents…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    So a few reasons why I don't trust Seymour Hersh's thinly sourced journalism. I've had to deal with his terribly sourced investigations since the August 2013 Sarin attacks, which @DanKaszeta and I picked apart in the Guardian

    https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1623693699224829952

    Quoting Scott Ritter as a source... hmmmm... how shall I put this....

    Seymour Hersh's marbles have left the building.
    I’m sure it’s a coincidence that his “investigations” tend to exonerate Russia or it’s Proxies and implicate their opponents…
    I always like the reverse Kevin Bacon.

    Something happens somewhere in the world. Your task is to blame it on US/NATO. If it takes 28 steps, so be it. A 29th that takes the blame beyond US/NATO - that's WRONG.

    When the Rwandan Genocide kicked off, the number of twats, who hadn't heard of Rwanda, but were utterly certain that the genocide was US run....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    RIP Burt Bacharach.

    Ah that's sad news. Much solo swishing around the house over the years to his great tunes.

    "My hands are shaking, don't let my heart keep breaking cos ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhwH_bYeNiE
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Nigelb said:

    RIP Burt Bacharach.

    I say a little prayer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3RlIjj8l-Q
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    No more Burt!

    I can’t really play any instrument, but I did learn how to play “Don’t Make Me Over” on the piano.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,040
    Off topic, but I think a success this big deserves some notice:

    "WASHINGTON, D.C.— 66th U.S. Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice and Former President of the United Republic of Tanzania Dr. Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete will join President George W. Bush for a conversation during PEPFAR at 20, an event marking 20 years of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) hosted by the George W. Bush Institute at the United States Institute of Peace on Feb. 24 starting at 9:00 a.m. ET. The trio will discuss the inception of PEPFAR, its enormous impact, and how the program is a win for both partner countries and for U.S. foreign policy."
    source: https://www.bushcenter.org/newsroom/pepfar-at-20

    This will annoy some people, but I think it nearly certain that Bush's Christian beliefs were why he proposed this program.

    I hope there are no fights at the Guardian over who gets to attend this event.

    (Bill Gates recently claimed -- in a Washington Post opinion piece -- that the program has saved 25 million lives, so far. Amazingly, neither Obama nor Trump screwed up the program, though Obama was thinking of doing so. He was, as I recall, discouaged from doing so by Bishop Tutu, among others.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still think DeSantis is a non-runner in 2024.

    He’s keeping his nose clean for 2028 or 2032, knows that 2024 is going to be dominated by the Trump sh!t-show.

    Lots of smart Democrats decided to sit out 1992 and to wait for a better opportunity in 1996.

    That turned out to be a mistake.
    If you don't run off a 19% governor win, when you've got national recognition before you even announce, and the GOP leaning press are on your side, when do you run ?

    Not to run would almost certainly be seen as chickening out, rather than playing the long game. Perceived cowardice is a fatal flaw in a politician.
    Not just Trump to think of beating though, he also has to consider his chances of beating Biden after first saying what he needs to to beat Trump?

    I was going to ask RCS for a citation of great Democrat politicians who chickened out challenging Bush 92, but I have thought of a better question. If Biden didn’t run, the list of good Democrat presidential talent would be wafer thin wouldn’t it?
    No.
    You say no (I can’t give you a like for replying for just one word reply)
    I still convinced Biden the last Democratic President for quite a long while.
    In fact the response to Buttelgeig, Harris, Sanders, Newsome, Klubacher, is more than no, it’s good grief!
    What are you going to say, only recently elected Pritzker, flaky weirdo Shapiro, or the even more deeply untrustworthy libertarian Polis? Absolutely none of these names will ever get remotely near the presidency in a battle with a Republican candidate (we all saw how Hilary was turned into mincemeat). Except perhaps the anti lockdown chancer Polis. And even then as an outside bet.
    Hillary was quite close to an easy win.
This discussion has been closed.