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Nikki Haley at 17/1 looks value for the WH2024 GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    AlistairM said:

    Hopefully with this and other commitments Ukraine will get a couple of hundred decent MBTs.

    El Mundo reports that 🇪🇸Spain may send 53 Leopard 2 tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618274856168226816

    speaks volumes about Britain's military capability that while London can only spare 14 (and that'll be an effort) Spain could offer almost quadruple that...
    We did it first which has, I believe, set off a chain reaction with Ukraine getting the Leopard. The issue with the C2 is not its capabilities but the fact it uses non-standard ammo. The Leopard was the best tank because there are thousands of them across Europe and logistically it would be much easier.

    Having said that I think we might as well send far more C2s as I'm not sure what else we are going to be doing with them.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    AlistairM said:

    Hopefully with this and other commitments Ukraine will get a couple of hundred decent MBTs.

    El Mundo reports that 🇪🇸Spain may send 53 Leopard 2 tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618274856168226816

    speaks volumes about Britain's military capability that while London can only spare 14 (and that'll be an effort) Spain could offer almost quadruple that...
    Im sure that Ukraine values Spain's contribution to helping Ukraine defend itself over the past 8 years far higher than the UK's contribution.
  • I do have to laugh at the Zahawi affair. Its open and shut. He has been fined - heavily - by HMRC for something he has repeatedly denied happened. He's then denied that HMRC were investigating him and threatened to sue people reporting these truths.

    So the "wait for the investigation" line is guff and normals see it as that. He got slapped with both a big tax bill and a big fine. Those are facts. The endless pitiful denials are facts. The attempt to falsely claim libel to shut journalists up is fact. That as recently as last week he had the PM say "its been accounted for" in an appeal to move the story on is fact.

    This would be very bad if he was a run of the mill politician. But in the midst of all this he was appointed Chancellor. And thus the ultimate boss of the tax authorities investigating the money that was only resting is his account. And he continued to deny it.

    I have to ask our remaining Tory appeasers if there is any behaviour at all that they would condemn.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    AlistairM said:

    Hopefully with this and other commitments Ukraine will get a couple of hundred decent MBTs.

    El Mundo reports that 🇪🇸Spain may send 53 Leopard 2 tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618274856168226816

    speaks volumes about Britain's military capability that while London can only spare 14 (and that'll be an effort) Spain could offer almost quadruple that...
    Im sure that Ukraine values Spain's contribution to helping Ukraine defend itself over the past 8 years far higher than the UK's contribution.
    I'm sure Ukraine is grateful for all the help they are receiving from the UK, the US, Spain, and even the EU.

    I'm also sure that they wish that we all did more.
  • Shamima Begum has turned down an offer to return the UK.



  • Shamima Begum has turned down an offer to return the UK.



    Could be worse. The Scottish Government offer was to take the Aberdeen job...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Has this been done yet? ChatGPT composes an "authentic" Burns night poem about PB.com

    Ah'd like tae write ye a braw verse,
    aboot the online political curse.
    Fou web forums, aye day an' night,
    debates a-ragin, sic a sight!

    Wi words sae hie, an' passions hot,
    thay mak thair case, an' clash a lot.
    But let us a' mind Burns' words true,
    "Man's tocherless, man's tocherless, man's tocherless,
    Let aa thir joys an' aa thir cares be!"

    So let's raise a glass tae guid will,
    an' tak a step back frae the online thrill.

    Nah!

    Still prefer the original. It applies to PB as well.

    "While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things,
    The fate of Empires and the fall of Kings;
    While quacks of State must each produce his plan,
    And even children lisp the Rights of Man;
    Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention,
    The Rights of Woman merit some attention.
    "
    We’ve just got a step closer to PB nirvana and managed to combine Scotland, AI and the trans debate in a single exchange. Just tidal power, woke, doctrinal pronouncements on the Church of England and Brexit to go.
    Interesting that your response to the Rights of Women is to mention the trans debate. As if women only matter in relation to a small sub-set of men......

    Have we covered this?

    Two or three Metropolitan Police officers are facing criminal court appearances every week, the commissioner revealed today, as he warned that lifting the lid on abusive predators would be “necessary and painful”.

    Sir Mark Rowley said that officers were routinely in court over offences ranging from dishonesty to violence against women and girls, domestic abuse and sex offences.

    He warned that the public should be prepared for more misconduct revelations in the coming months and that rooting out police predators would be long and painful.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-carrick-met-police-mark-rowley-commissioner-statement-w0bbzq3k9


    As predicted by me on here a year ago.
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The consensus including from the Guardian seems to be that Sunak came out of PMQs better than he could have hoped

    Sunak's argument that Labour demanded he appointed an ethics advisor and he has now referred Zahawi to him for due process is a good argument and for Starmer as a former head of the CPS to demand resignation before due process is completed is a contradiction of his former role at the CPS
    If you’re going to have a process for such things, then the process needs to be followed.

    There’s been nothing new in this story for about five days now, this is the Opposition and the media hoping that keeping it on the front pages forces the PM’s hand and gives them a scalp.

    In due course, the independent enquiry will deliver a report to Downing St, and the PM will either support the minister or accept his resignation at that time.

    Personal tax affairs of MPs have always been a private matter. In fact, there’s a special unit at HMRC that deals with MPs’ tax returns, presumably to stop them leaking out and to ensure that everything is done ‘correctly’.
    Given his behaviour over sending legal letters to anyone who reported what turned out to be facts tells you all about Zahawi and Sunak.
    Oh definitely. Lawyers are all scumbags, and the world would be a much better place without them.
    Don't be silly.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    BREAKING: Polls show the Tories are heading for their WORST RESULT since 1906.

    🚨 | Vote%:

    LAB: 47% (+15)
    CON: 26% (-18)
    LDM: 9% (-2)
    REFORM: 5% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (+3)
    SNP: 4% (=)
    UKIP: 3% (+3)

    Seats:
    LAB: 390 (+188)
    CON: 150 (-215)
    SNP: 53 (+5)
    LDM: 31 (+20)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Changes w/GE2019

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1617969926538493961

    Point of order.
    As the Tories got 156 seats in 1906, a result of 150 seats would be worse than 1906. It would be their worst result since [checks elections]...

    It would be their worst result.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    AlistairM said:

    AlistairM said:

    Hopefully with this and other commitments Ukraine will get a couple of hundred decent MBTs.

    El Mundo reports that 🇪🇸Spain may send 53 Leopard 2 tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618274856168226816

    speaks volumes about Britain's military capability that while London can only spare 14 (and that'll be an effort) Spain could offer almost quadruple that...
    We did it first which has, I believe, set off a chain reaction with Ukraine getting the Leopard. The issue with the C2 is not its capabilities but the fact it uses non-standard ammo. The Leopard was the best tank because there are thousands of them across Europe and logistically it would be much easier.

    Having said that I think we might as well send far more C2s as I'm not sure what else we are going to be doing with them.
    The problem was that the UK military went down the airmobile rabbit hole. Tanks were out. Also artillery.

    The fact that you can't actually deploy, by air, more than some tin cans that might stop a 23mm on a good day by air - ignore that. The fact that you can't resupply a force of any size by air, without asking the Americans to send a ludicrous percentage of their transport capability - ignore.

    Add in some "Unique requirements" bullshit and stir.

    We then end up with AJAX - a design that weighs more than Russian tanks - as a fighting vehicle. Not a a tank. Apart from not working, it is definitely not airmobile.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,962

    BREAKING: Polls show the Tories are heading for their WORST RESULT since 1906.

    🚨 | Vote%:

    LAB: 47% (+15)
    CON: 26% (-18)
    LDM: 9% (-2)
    REFORM: 5% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (+3)
    SNP: 4% (=)
    UKIP: 3% (+3)

    Seats:
    LAB: 390 (+188)
    CON: 150 (-215)
    SNP: 53 (+5)
    LDM: 31 (+20)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Changes w/GE2019

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1617969926538493961

    Tories alone on just 26% but Conservatives plus RefUK plus UKIP on 34%.

    Do you really think RefUK and UKIP will get 8% combined?
  • AlistairM said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov: Latest Westminster voting intention (18-19 Jan)

    Con: 26% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Lab: 48% (+1)
    Lib Dem: 8% (-1)
    Reform… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618270115820339202

    Does anyone talk about swingback these days or is that very 8 years ago?
    All very Rod Crosby indeed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    AlistairM said:

    Abrams coming.

    ‼️The 🇺🇸USA will send 31 Abrams tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine for $400 million, reports Bloomberg.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618273669868064775

    The mind is a funny thing. When I saw "US to send Abrams" on Breaking my first thought (seriously) was Yeah, Stacey'll sort it out.
  • Calls to suspend covid 19 vaccines in South Africa because of safety concerns hits mainstream news

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1618204753271611394?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Awaiting a ban from rcs in 3..2...1 for shedding dangerous misinformation.....we cannot expose the weak minds on here to dangerous misinformation lol
  • ok look heres Matt Hancock being harrassed on the london underground

    https://twitter.com/OlooneyJohn/status/1617926654369890304?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    streets wont be safe for matty boy soon
  • extraordinary scenes from the antivax protest outside the bbc on saturday

    https://twitter.com/beverleyturner/status/1617579929776062468?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Vivpeters said:

    extraordinary scenes from the antivax protest outside the bbc on saturday

    https://twitter.com/beverleyturner/status/1617579929776062468?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Fail. 0/10
  • rcs1000 said:

    AlistairM said:

    Hopefully with this and other commitments Ukraine will get a couple of hundred decent MBTs.

    El Mundo reports that 🇪🇸Spain may send 53 Leopard 2 tanks to 🇺🇦Ukraine.
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1618274856168226816

    speaks volumes about Britain's military capability that while London can only spare 14 (and that'll be an effort) Spain could offer almost quadruple that...
    Im sure that Ukraine values Spain's contribution to helping Ukraine defend itself over the past 8 years far higher than the UK's contribution.
    I'm sure Ukraine is grateful for all the help they are receiving from the UK, the US, Spain, and even the EU.

    I'm also sure that they wish that we all did more.
    CASUALTIES — The BBC estimates that at most 20,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in the last 11 months.

    Col. Douglas Macgregor says 157,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in the last 11 months, presumably from US intelligence sources.

    This is an 8 to 1 ratio.

    if this what you want rcs

    https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/status/1617962250949791745?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Only one local by-election tomorrow. It's in Rotherham and is a free for all. The seat is held by the Rotherham Democratic Party - but they are not defending. So take your pick of Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem, Green, Yorkshire Party, and Independent.
  • Vivpeters said:

    extraordinary scenes from the antivax protest outside the bbc on saturday

    https://twitter.com/beverleyturner/status/1617579929776062468?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Fail. 0/10
    lol i love jousting with you mate
  • Incredibly worrying for Sunak that as PM of the country most voters think he stands for nothing, after 13 years of government that is hopeless
  • Vivpeters said:

    extraordinary scenes from the antivax protest outside the bbc on saturday

    https://twitter.com/beverleyturner/status/1617579929776062468?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Fail. 0/10
    Not again !!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @whatukthinks: Latest @YouGov @thetimes poll. In hindsight #Brexit right 34 (-1); wrong 54 (n/c). Fwork 18-19.1.23 (ch since 4-5.2… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618284040553107462
  • the year is 2030
    5 million have died in the ukraine war
    zelensky comes to the usa demanding more weapons saying this time ukraine will achieve victory
    lol
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Vivpeters said:

    extraordinary scenes from the antivax protest outside the bbc on saturday

    https://twitter.com/beverleyturner/status/1617579929776062468?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow


    Fail. 0/10
    I'm wondering whether this is just Scott's antivax alter ego...

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?
  • BREAKING: Polls show the Tories are heading for their WORST RESULT since 1906.

    🚨 | Vote%:

    LAB: 47% (+15)
    CON: 26% (-18)
    LDM: 9% (-2)
    REFORM: 5% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (+3)
    SNP: 4% (=)
    UKIP: 3% (+3)

    Seats:
    LAB: 390 (+188)
    CON: 150 (-215)
    SNP: 53 (+5)
    LDM: 31 (+20)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Changes w/GE2019

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1617969926538493961

    Point of order.
    As the Tories got 156 seats in 1906, a result of 150 seats would be worse than 1906. It would be their worst result since [checks elections]...

    It would be their worst result.
    That's the strange thing.

    Put the numbers down like that, they look crazy. And Starmer isn't Blair, and the RefUK block of votes should be squeezable - though it may be another bucket for voters who just can't bring themselves to vote blue.

    But there is a big polling gap that doesn't look like swingback can close it. Sunak has less voter appeal than Major, Sleaze the Sequel looks worse than the 90's original, and the economy isn't booming.

    Maybe the government is in for an absolute shellacking, and something is stopping us see the elephant in the room.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited January 2023

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    You need to reverse the Starmer and Sunak scores, then add Not Sure to the new Sunak number, then overanalyse why Sunak's impressive approvals are due to events that could hypothetically occur in an indeterminate place at some undefined point in the future. Then you need to "roll a marble" down the newly unskewed Labour score and reveal that it is trending towards minus 50.

    Duh. I thought it would be obvious!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Why do I fear Vivpeters isn't long for this world?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    I do have to laugh at the Zahawi affair. Its open and shut. He has been fined - heavily - by HMRC for something he has repeatedly denied happened. He's then denied that HMRC were investigating him and threatened to sue people reporting these truths.

    So the "wait for the investigation" line is guff and normals see it as that. He got slapped with both a big tax bill and a big fine. Those are facts. The endless pitiful denials are facts. The attempt to falsely claim libel to shut journalists up is fact. That as recently as last week he had the PM say "its been accounted for" in an appeal to move the story on is fact.

    This would be very bad if he was a run of the mill politician. But in the midst of all this he was appointed Chancellor. And thus the ultimate boss of the tax authorities investigating the money that was only resting is his account. And he continued to deny it.

    I have to ask our remaining Tory appeasers if there is any behaviour at all that they would condemn.

    I don't know why he's clinging on. Is being Tory Party Chairman for a general election drubbing too enticing a prospect to let go?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited January 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The consensus including from the Guardian seems to be that Sunak came out of PMQs better than he could have hoped

    Sunak's argument that Labour demanded he appointed an ethics advisor and he has now referred Zahawi to him for due process is a good argument and for Starmer as a former head of the CPS to demand resignation before due process is completed is a contradiction of his former role at the CPS
    If you’re going to have a process for such things, then the process needs to be followed.

    There’s been nothing new in this story for about five days now, this is the Opposition and the media hoping that keeping it on the front pages forces the PM’s hand and gives them a scalp.

    In due course, the independent enquiry will deliver a report to Downing St, and the PM will either support the minister or accept his resignation at that time.

    Personal tax affairs of MPs have always been a private matter. In fact, there’s a special unit at HMRC that deals with MPs’ tax returns, presumably to stop them leaking out and to ensure that everything is done ‘correctly’.
    Given his behaviour over sending legal letters to anyone who reported what turned out to be facts tells you all about Zahawi and Sunak.
    Oh definitely. Lawyers are all scumbags, and the world would be a much better place without them.
    Don't be silly.
    That was a flippant response to a trolling Mr Eagles, not intended to offend your good self ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,962

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    With many consumers of this sort of disinformation my sense is it feeds a self-image of 'free thinking' and 'anti authority'.

    Different story for the producers.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Do you remember when you said Sunak was doing well when they were tied with only one pollster? The gap has widened, how on earth can this be good for Sunak
  • dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    I read some articles on this.

    Basically it boils down to Russia being able to say on the news and social media that 'Brits are openly discussing the vaccine being a killer, no popular support for the Nazi Ukrainians, and they've had gayness foisted on them.'
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    "Not sure" means "they're both crap". It's not unreasonable, especially in midterm, for those to be breaking heavily for the opposition.
  • kinabalu said:

    I do have to laugh at the Zahawi affair. Its open and shut. He has been fined - heavily - by HMRC for something he has repeatedly denied happened. He's then denied that HMRC were investigating him and threatened to sue people reporting these truths.

    So the "wait for the investigation" line is guff and normals see it as that. He got slapped with both a big tax bill and a big fine. Those are facts. The endless pitiful denials are facts. The attempt to falsely claim libel to shut journalists up is fact. That as recently as last week he had the PM say "its been accounted for" in an appeal to move the story on is fact.

    This would be very bad if he was a run of the mill politician. But in the midst of all this he was appointed Chancellor. And thus the ultimate boss of the tax authorities investigating the money that was only resting is his account. And he continued to deny it.

    I have to ask our remaining Tory appeasers if there is any behaviour at all that they would condemn.

    I don't know why he's clinging on. Is being Tory Party Chairman for a general election drubbing too enticing a prospect to let go?
    I cannot understand why he thinks he is serving the party by remaining in post

    He should have stood down pending the result of the enquiry
  • Vivpeters said:

    Calls to suspend covid 19 vaccines in South Africa because of safety concerns hits mainstream news

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1618204753271611394?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Awaiting a ban from rcs in 3..2...1 for shedding dangerous misinformation.....we cannot expose the weak minds on here to dangerous misinformation lol

    FYI - An absolute certain way to get the ban hammer on PB is to be rude/insulting towards OGH and RCS.

    They spend a lot of time and money so people can post on here, might be wise not to abuse that privilege.
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
  • Vivpeters said:

    Calls to suspend covid 19 vaccines in South Africa because of safety concerns hits mainstream news

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1618204753271611394?s=20&t=ac6T__elj3p8IlC5cAkYow

    Awaiting a ban from rcs in 3..2...1 for shedding dangerous misinformation.....we cannot expose the weak minds on here to dangerous misinformation lol

    FYI - An absolute certain way to get the ban hammer on PB is to be rude/insulting towards OGH and RCS.

    They spend a lot of time and money so people can post on here, might be wise not to abuse that privilege.
    Their posting did not last long
  • kinabalu said:

    I do have to laugh at the Zahawi affair. Its open and shut. He has been fined - heavily - by HMRC for something he has repeatedly denied happened. He's then denied that HMRC were investigating him and threatened to sue people reporting these truths.

    So the "wait for the investigation" line is guff and normals see it as that. He got slapped with both a big tax bill and a big fine. Those are facts. The endless pitiful denials are facts. The attempt to falsely claim libel to shut journalists up is fact. That as recently as last week he had the PM say "its been accounted for" in an appeal to move the story on is fact.

    This would be very bad if he was a run of the mill politician. But in the midst of all this he was appointed Chancellor. And thus the ultimate boss of the tax authorities investigating the money that was only resting is his account. And he continued to deny it.

    I have to ask our remaining Tory appeasers if there is any behaviour at all that they would condemn.

    I don't know why he's clinging on. Is being Tory Party Chairman for a general election drubbing too enticing a prospect to let go?
    I cannot understand why he thinks he is serving the party by remaining in post

    He should have stood down pending the result of the enquiry
    Has anyone standing down to clear their name ever returned in vindicated glory? (Excluding the winning a general election in your constituency wiping the slate clean thing.) I mean, it feels like it must have happened, but who and when?
  • Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    The thing that perplexes me is that whilst PBers might disagree about lockdowns we're uniformly pro vaccine.
  • kinabalu said:

    I do have to laugh at the Zahawi affair. Its open and shut. He has been fined - heavily - by HMRC for something he has repeatedly denied happened. He's then denied that HMRC were investigating him and threatened to sue people reporting these truths.

    So the "wait for the investigation" line is guff and normals see it as that. He got slapped with both a big tax bill and a big fine. Those are facts. The endless pitiful denials are facts. The attempt to falsely claim libel to shut journalists up is fact. That as recently as last week he had the PM say "its been accounted for" in an appeal to move the story on is fact.

    This would be very bad if he was a run of the mill politician. But in the midst of all this he was appointed Chancellor. And thus the ultimate boss of the tax authorities investigating the money that was only resting is his account. And he continued to deny it.

    I have to ask our remaining Tory appeasers if there is any behaviour at all that they would condemn.

    I don't know why he's clinging on. Is being Tory Party Chairman for a general election drubbing too enticing a prospect to let go?
    I cannot understand why he thinks he is serving the party by remaining in post

    He should have stood down pending the result of the enquiry
    Has anyone standing down to clear their name ever returned in vindicated glory? (Excluding the winning a general election in your constituency wiping the slate clean thing.) I mean, it feels like it must have happened, but who and when?
    I agree and I expect he will resign and frankly he is letting himself and his party down
  • Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    The thing that perplexes me is that whilst PBers might disagree about lockdowns we're uniformly pro vaccine.
    Not me
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    Yes but it is widening.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    edited January 2023
    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment.
  • dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Their own premature demise? Perhaps there should be a collective Darwin award for the poor intellectually challenged nitwits?
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    Yes but it is widening.
    It can close again. Events, dear boy, events.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    Ooohh, really? Which one? That sounds like it's worth a read.
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    At the present time it seems near impossible but who knows, politics can confound the expected
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    It feels like a moving number moving the wrong way though. When Rishi started, he was roughly even with Boring Old Starmer. Now he isn't.

    It was always likely that the ratings of the PM and the party would converge, at least a bit. And it was always easier to see the Conservatives dragging Sunak down than Rishi dragging his party up.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    The thing that perplexes me is that whilst PBers might disagree about lockdowns we're uniformly pro vaccine.
    Not me
    You are anti vax now? I know you seem to have changed your mind over lockdowns, are you against vaccination in general, or mRNA in particular?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    I read some articles on this.

    Basically it boils down to Russia being able to say on the news and social media that 'Brits are openly discussing the vaccine being a killer, no popular support for the Nazi Ukrainians, and they've had gayness foisted on them.'
    Can't they just say that anyways?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    It'll take more than that to sow division on this particular ocean of calm, contented agreement.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment. (See @YBarddCwsc)
    The Bardd isn't antivax, is he?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    The thing that perplexes me is that whilst PBers might disagree about lockdowns we're uniformly pro vaccine.
    Differences of opinion on such matters, are generally a lot more nuanced and polite in the UK, compared to what’s seen in the US. The disruptive posters assume that the US-level discourse works on a UK site, and it doesn’t.
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    At the present time it seems near impossible but who knows, politics can confound the expected
    It seems unlikely to me too. The best I think the Tories can hope for is to deny Starmer a majority which would be an achievement and a platform to rebuild. I think there is also a possibility that thanks to the trashing of the brand that has taken place under the recent Tory leadership that they will get absolutely hammered and we will be stuck with the Public Sector Party for the next couple of decades.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    The thing is he may not be very good at it but one of the reasons I like Sunak is that he doesn't seem to take PMQs too seriously.

    Have you considered that this might be him taking it seriously?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment. (See @YBarddCwsc)
    The Bardd isn't antivax, is he?
    Yep.

    And pro-ivermectin too.
    I'm pro-ivermectin, to be fair. Very useful substance.

    No good for treating Covid, but very useful as an antiparasitic.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @NatashaBertrand: The US will be sending 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, POTUS announces, and will begin to train the Ukrainians on them… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618293704485384192
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment. (See @YBarddCwsc)
    The Bardd isn't antivax, is he?
    Yep.

    And pro-ivermectin too.
    No I am 100 per cent not anti-vax. I am vehemently pro-vax.

    I am not pro-ivermectin. I have never posted anything on the subject of ivermectin

    Please withdraw & apologize immediately.

    This is an ugly and vicious slur.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    HYUFD said:

    BREAKING: Polls show the Tories are heading for their WORST RESULT since 1906.

    🚨 | Vote%:

    LAB: 47% (+15)
    CON: 26% (-18)
    LDM: 9% (-2)
    REFORM: 5% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (+3)
    SNP: 4% (=)
    UKIP: 3% (+3)

    Seats:
    LAB: 390 (+188)
    CON: 150 (-215)
    SNP: 53 (+5)
    LDM: 31 (+20)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Changes w/GE2019

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1617969926538493961

    Tories alone on just 26% but Conservatives plus RefUK plus UKIP on 34%.

    Do you really think RefUK and UKIP will get 8% combined?
    That's very much the silver lining for the Conservatives right now: their voters (mostly) haven't gone to Labour or the LibDems, they've gone to Don't Know / Reform / UKIP / Won't Vote.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    Ooohh, really? Which one? That sounds like it's worth a read.
    Conservativehome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment. (See @YBarddCwsc)
    The Bardd isn't antivax, is he?
    Yep.

    And pro-ivermectin too.
    No I am 100 per cent not anti-vax. I am vehemently pro-vax.

    I am not pro-ivermectin. I have never posted anything on the subject of ivermectin

    Please withdraw & apologize immediately.

    This is an ugly and vicious slur.
    I apologize, I thought you had written approvingly of ivermectin and against vaccines.

    I will delete my original comment. And I'm sorry I was wrong.
  • HYUFD said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best Prime Minister? (18-19 Jan)

    Keir Starmer: 33% (+1 from 10-11 Jan)
    Rishi Sunak: 24% (=)
    Not sure: 38% (-2)

    Does @MoonRabbit want to have a go at explaining how this means Keir Starmer must resign?

    So Sunak just 9% behind Starmer as preferred PM but the Tories supposedly 21% behind Labour?
    Not sure I see your point especially as most polls affirm a Labour lead near to 20%
    Possibly the point is that according to OGH the party with the PM with most favourable "preferred PM" indicator normally wins at GE.

    9 points doesn't look that impossible to close.
    At the present time it seems near impossible but who knows, politics can confound the expected
    It seems unlikely to me too. The best I think the Tories can hope for is to deny Starmer a majority which would be an achievement and a platform to rebuild. I think there is also a possibility that thanks to the trashing of the brand that has taken place under the recent Tory leadership that they will get absolutely hammered and we will be stuck with the Public Sector Party for the next couple of decades.
    Following the December borrowing figures and that income tax is maxed out I just do not see how anyone, Starmer included, is going to be able to take the unpalatable decisions needed both in the short and long term

    The one consolation from the Truss experiment is the swift verdict of the markets and immediate corrective action that Sunak and Hunt had to take to protect the economy and a warning to future governments
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    GMX email address - check
    Blacklisted IP - check

    VivPeters hit all the "Russian bot" check marks.

    Normally, though, they're a bit more subtle. They talk about something else first for a few messages before diving in with the antivax and anti-Ukraine stuff.

    And the answer, by the way, is to sow division. They want to amplify the voices of falsehood.

    FWIW, I suspect there will be a remarkable degree of correlation between antivax and anti-Ukraine sentiment. (See @YBarddCwsc)
    The Bardd isn't antivax, is he?
    Yep.

    And pro-ivermectin too.
    No I am 100 per cent not anti-vax. I am vehemently pro-vax.

    I am not pro-ivermectin. I have never posted anything on the subject of ivermectin

    Please withdraw & apologize immediately.

    This is an ugly and vicious slur.
    You've woken up!

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Cyclefree said:
    You're like my sister. She lives in a house in Scotland from which you see nothing but landscape. You get a silence there that in the city never falls. Same with the intense darkness at night. She loves it. I love it for a couple of days.
  • Biden press conference confirming the 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine together with Germany and now other NATO countries this has to be a huge moment and Sky is saying WW2 tank battles are likely to occur
  • Bad timing

    RAF grounds its entire fast jet trainer aircraft due to a problem with its engines
  • NEW THREAD

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    Division. The subject is irrelevant, so long as it’s something that polarises opinion.

    They haven’t yet worked out, that a well-informed British political blog can see straight through their tactics.
    Ooohh, really? Which one? That sounds like it's worth a read.
    Lol. But seriously this site is relatively excellent. Eg I used to mix it BTL on the Speccy. God the sort of blokes you come across there. They make even the more reactionary PBers look like Centrist Dads.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    I read some articles on this.

    Basically it boils down to Russia being able to say on the news and social media that 'Brits are openly discussing the vaccine being a killer, no popular support for the Nazi Ukrainians, and they've had gayness foisted on them.'
    I saw a good line recently.

    The standard pronoun for Russian soldiers is was/were

    (Yes, I know those aren't pronouns, but I still chuckled)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    What are antivaxxers trying to achieve?

    I read some articles on this.

    Basically it boils down to Russia being able to say on the news and social media that 'Brits are openly discussing the vaccine being a killer, no popular support for the Nazi Ukrainians, and they've had gayness foisted on them.'
    Can't they just say that anyways?
    I thought we were trying to impose TransGayNATOWokeness on Russia to reduce the size of their Mighty! Weapons! Using the vaccines as a vector.

    Or am I getting confused about which conspiracy I am taking part in, again?
This discussion has been closed.