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Nikki Haley at 17/1 looks value for the WH2024 GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 29 in General
imageNikki Haley at 17/1 looks value for the WH2024 GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

We are getting to that time when possible contenders for next year’s White House race start putting there hats into the ring and indicating that they might be making a formal bid for the nomination of their parties.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    First, unlike Haley.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    2nd, not like Haley either.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    70/1 might be worth a fiver.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    Nikki Haley has about as much chance of being the next Republican Presidential nominee as Jeremy Hunt has of being the next Tory leader.

    She is way too moderate for Trumpite white working class Republicans and evangelicals alike. The 2024 nomination battle will be between Trump and DeSantis with an outside chance for Pence still if he wins the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    Ah, 17/1, I see
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018
    Is it really a mystery why Sunak and some other politicians want it to be seen as an acceptable "mistake" to cheat to the tune of several millions on your taxes?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,850
    I mentioned this yesterday but I remain confounded as to why Lens, 3 points off PSG and backable at 26 (29 with boost), have those title odds.

    I'd still say, from my very vague understanding, that PSG are favourites, but it's 3 points and the halfway mark in the season. Contrast La Liga, Real Madrid are 3 points off Barcelona and 2.87 for the title. Name recognition? Real Sociedad are 3 points further back (but have a game in hand) and 201 for the title... free bet, if you've got one, perhaps.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,933

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    Ah, 17/1, I see
    25/1 Skybet; 20/1 Betfred and a couple of others, according to Oddschecker.

    But (there is always a but) OGH may see this as a trading bet and thus wants to be able to lay off when the price contracts without tying up yet more money (or might just be banned by the books).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,895
    edited January 25

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    Have you got the audio version of this website?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    I mentioned this yesterday but I remain confounded as to why Lens, 3 points off PSG and backable at 26 (29 with boost), have those title odds.

    I'd still say, from my very vague understanding, that PSG are favourites, but it's 3 points and the halfway mark in the season. Contrast La Liga, Real Madrid are 3 points off Barcelona and 2.87 for the title. Name recognition? Real Sociedad are 3 points further back (but have a game in hand) and 201 for the title... free bet, if you've got one, perhaps.

    Were Leicester not still something mad like 60/1 to win the title at Christmas, when they were several points clear of the field?

    25/1, for the team 3 points off the lead in January, seems like a good bet to me. Especially if you can get an each-way.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,850
    Mr. Sandpit, each way is sadly unavailable but I still think it's worth backing (and 28/1 with boost).

    From memory, Ligue 1 had the least competitive title market pre-season (Serie A was perhaps the best, then the EPL, with Bundesliga and Ligue 1 having very clear favourites). Suspect this may have some effect on the current market, perhaps. First season trying to bet fairly seriously (low stakes, but trying to get a decent rate of success) on football, so not sure.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,933

    I mentioned this yesterday but I remain confounded as to why Lens, 3 points off PSG and backable at 26 (29 with boost), have those title odds.

    I'd still say, from my very vague understanding, that PSG are favourites, but it's 3 points and the halfway mark in the season. Contrast La Liga, Real Madrid are 3 points off Barcelona and 2.87 for the title. Name recognition? Real Sociedad are 3 points further back (but have a game in hand) and 201 for the title... free bet, if you've got one, perhaps.

    PSG are 1/50. That is why you can have any price you like about their rivals.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    Off-topic:

    The way even a hat can become part of a PR scheme:

    https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1618172049423495170
  • Sunak has shown that he will come totally unstuck in any GE campaign
  • eekeek Posts: 22,060
    HYUFD said:

    Nikki Haley has about as much chance of being the next Republican Presidential nominee as Jeremy Hunt has of being the next Tory leader.

    She is way too moderate for Trumpite white working class Republicans and evangelicals alike. The 2024 nomination battle will be between Trump and DeSantis with an outside chance for Pence still if he wins the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses

    the only other thing worth pointing out is because both Trump and DeSantis come from Florida Trump can't offer DeSantis the "opportunity" to be his VP.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,850
    Mr. JohnL, hmm, Betfair has PSG at 1.12 for the title.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,194
    I don't see how anyone else becomes Republican nominee when all the other contenders are so scared of Trump's support that they are unable to criticise him.

    Who among them can make the case that Trump lost the 2020 election and that's why they need a new candidate, and win that argument with Republican primary voters?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,326

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    17/1.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,933

    Mr. JohnL, hmm, Betfair has PSG at 1.12 for the title.

    Please use the quote button so that others can easily see the whole exchange.

    Given the differences of opinion as to whether PSG should be 1/10 or 1/100 for the title, perhaps that is where the value lies. Since few take Ligue 1 seriously as a betting proposition (look how far down it is buried on most sites) it is quite possible someone has got it wrong about a team whose forward line is Mbappe, Neymar and Messi. I shan't be playing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,194
    edited January 25
    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.
  • eekeek Posts: 22,060

    Sunak has shown that he will come totally unstuck in any GE campaign

    but who else does the Tory party have as a suitable candidate who doesn't have a nasty smell hidden in their wardrobe and wouldn't be an embarrassment on the campaign trail.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,675
    geoffw said:

    Is she 70/1 or 17/1?

    Have you got the audio version of this website?
    Very good. 😀
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    edited January 25
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nikki Haley has about as much chance of being the next Republican Presidential nominee as Jeremy Hunt has of being the next Tory leader.

    She is way too moderate for Trumpite white working class Republicans and evangelicals alike. The 2024 nomination battle will be between Trump and DeSantis with an outside chance for Pence still if he wins the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses

    the only other thing worth pointing out is because both Trump and DeSantis come from Florida Trump can't offer DeSantis the "opportunity" to be his VP.
    Haley has a chance of being the nominee's running mate, she has nearly zero chance of actually being the nominee
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280
    What I consider 'the part' and what Republican members consider 'the part' probably aren't very similar so I'll stay out of guessing on this one. I don't doubt OGH's track record on this sort of thing though. I assume everything went well with the op yesterday?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,933
    Microsoft investigating Teams and Outlook outages as thousands of users report issues
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/microsoft-investigating-teams-and-outlook-outage-as-users-report-issues.html

    Happy WFH on Burns Night Day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    Microsoft systems down across the world, including both Teams and Outlook
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64397643
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Microsoft investigating Teams and Outlook outages as thousands of users report issues
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/microsoft-investigating-teams-and-outlook-outage-as-users-report-issues.html

    Happy WFH on Burns Night Day.

    O365 networking issue. An overnight (DNS/loadbalance?) change is in the process of being rolled back by Microsoft.

    https://twitter.com/MSFT365Status/status/1618178407316987905
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    edited January 25
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    64% of Republican Iowa Caucus goers in 2016 were evangelical Christians and Iowa is still the first Republican state to vote for their nominee. In 2016 they voted for Baptist Cruz not Trump

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2016/0202/The-two-numbers-that-explain-Iowa-caucus-vote
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,290

    Sandpit said:

    Off-topic:


    The way even a hat can become part of a PR scheme:

    https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1618172049423495170

    That’s awesome.

    I’ll take a bet that the London Underground hat is going to go on a long tour of Ukraine, and be photographed next to every station and landmark they can find.

    Well done Boris! A fun story, making lives of people in a sh!tty situation, that little bit better.
    And actually, to credit Boris: not only was he very strong on Ukraine before and after the war began, but he's continued that interest after he stopped being PM. He did not need to go to Ukraine this week, and you can be sure as heck that he'll be carrying messages from the government. He won't gain a great deal of domestic credit for doing it, either.
    I suspect he’s exhausted, virtually all his public credit in UK, and wonder if he’s running out of that “at home “?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984

    Sandpit said:

    Off-topic:


    The way even a hat can become part of a PR scheme:

    https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1618172049423495170

    That’s awesome.

    I’ll take a bet that the London Underground hat is going to go on a long tour of Ukraine, and be photographed next to every station and landmark they can find.

    Well done Boris! A fun story, making lives of people in a sh!tty situation, that little bit better.
    And actually, to credit Boris: not only was he very strong on Ukraine before and after the war began, but he's continued that interest after he stopped being PM. He did not need to go to Ukraine this week, and you can be sure as heck that he'll be carrying messages from the government. He won't gain a great deal of domestic credit for doing it, either.
    I suspect he’s exhausted, virtually all his public credit in UK, and wonder if he’s running out of that “at home “?

    Reinforcing success - if the Ukraine war ends well for Ukraine, It will be a big part of what is considered his legacy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    edited January 25
    Have Haley neither laid nor backed for POTUS.

    Ron DeSantis
    -£446.22
    Joe Biden
    £959.21
    Kamala Harris
    £152.96
    Gavin Newsom
    -£868.34
    Mike Pence
    -£963.20
    Michelle Obama
    -£482.64
    Hillary Clinton
    -£457.84
    Tulsi Gabbard
    -£927.44
    Dwayne Johnson
    -£956.84
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    -£767.84
    Liz Cheney
    -£948.54
    Nikki Haley & everyone else including the Donald.
    £139.32



    Betfair tells me this is worth -£6.71 to cash out at the moment.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,290

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    64% of Republican Iowa Caucus goers in 2016 were evangelical Christians and Iowa is still the first Republican state to vote for their nominee. In 2016 they voted for Baptist Cruz not Trump

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2016/0202/The-two-numbers-that-explain-Iowa-caucus-vote
    Haley converted.
    She's also not a charisma free weirdo.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    edited January 25

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Pulpstar said:

    Have Haley neither laid nor backed for POTUS.

    Ron DeSantis
    -£446.22
    Joe Biden
    £959.21
    Kamala Harris
    £152.96
    Gavin Newsom
    -£868.34
    Mike Pence
    -£963.20
    Michelle Obama
    -£482.64
    Hillary Clinton
    -£457.84
    Tulsi Gabbard
    -£927.44
    Dwayne Johnson
    -£956.84
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    -£767.84
    Liz Cheney
    -£948.54
    Nikki Haley & everyone else including the Donald.
    £139.32



    Betfair tells me this is worth -£6.71 to cash out at the moment.

    That Tulsi exposure is worrying. 😁
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,912
    Pulpstar said:

    Have Haley neither laid nor backed for POTUS.

    Ron DeSantis
    -£446.22
    Joe Biden
    £959.21
    Kamala Harris
    £152.96
    Gavin Newsom
    -£868.34
    Mike Pence
    -£963.20
    Michelle Obama
    -£482.64
    Hillary Clinton
    -£457.84
    Tulsi Gabbard
    -£927.44
    Dwayne Johnson
    -£956.84
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    -£767.84
    Liz Cheney
    -£948.54
    Nikki Haley & everyone else including the Donald.
    £139.32



    Betfair tells me this is worth -£6.71 to cash out at the moment.

    I'd pay you much more than that for it. Nice book, only real risk is DeSantis (maybe Newsom if Biden steps down but it could just as easily be 10 other Dems in that scenario) and your implied odds are tasty.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have Haley neither laid nor backed for POTUS.

    Ron DeSantis
    -£446.22
    Joe Biden
    £959.21
    Kamala Harris
    £152.96
    Gavin Newsom
    -£868.34
    Mike Pence
    -£963.20
    Michelle Obama
    -£482.64
    Hillary Clinton
    -£457.84
    Tulsi Gabbard
    -£927.44
    Dwayne Johnson
    -£956.84
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    -£767.84
    Liz Cheney
    -£948.54
    Nikki Haley & everyone else including the Donald.
    £139.32



    Betfair tells me this is worth -£6.71 to cash out at the moment.

    I'd pay you much more than that for it. Nice book, only real risk is DeSantis (maybe Newsom if Biden steps down but it could just as easily be 10 other Dems in that scenario) and your implied odds are tasty.
    Yeah a small negative on the cashout generally means it's in the black due to liquidity.

    I've also got Biden for the nom at Smarkets at around 2-1. Those docs are a bigger worry than his age! but with Pence story coming out it could end up like MP's expenses.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pence is even more hardline on abortion than Trump though
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    edited January 25
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    64% of Republican Iowa Caucus goers in 2016 were evangelical Christians and Iowa is still the first Republican state to vote for their nominee. In 2016 they voted for Baptist Cruz not Trump

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2016/0202/The-two-numbers-that-explain-Iowa-caucus-vote
    Haley converted.
    She's also not a charisma free weirdo.
    Haley backs a 20 week abortion limit, which is softer than DeSantis and Trump let alone Pence who essentially wants to end abortion completely as most evangelicals do

    https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/06/24/pence-we-must-not-rest-until-abortion-is-outlawed-in-every-state-00042315
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    edited January 25

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    At least Google hasn't had a global go down like Microsoft has this morning or Meta has, whatever form it takes it has a very strong brand
  • Sandpit said:

    Off-topic:


    The way even a hat can become part of a PR scheme:

    https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1618172049423495170

    That’s awesome.

    I’ll take a bet that the London Underground hat is going to go on a long tour of Ukraine, and be photographed next to every station and landmark they can find.

    Well done Boris! A fun story, making lives of people in a sh!tty situation, that little bit better.
    And actually, to credit Boris: not only was he very strong on Ukraine before and after the war began, but he's continued that interest after he stopped being PM. He did not need to go to Ukraine this week, and you can be sure as heck that he'll be carrying messages from the government. He won't gain a great deal of domestic credit for doing it, either.
    I suspect he’s exhausted, virtually all his public credit in UK, and wonder if he’s running out of that “at home “?

    Reinforcing success - if the Ukraine war ends well for Ukraine, It will be a big part of what is considered his legacy.
    And if the war ends in nuclear Armageddon, none of the survivors will care about his legacy. Win-win.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,510
    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 308
    Haley, like Krisit Noem, is auditioning for the VP slot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    AI potentially leads to mass unemployment
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have Haley neither laid nor backed for POTUS.

    Ron DeSantis
    -£446.22
    Joe Biden
    £959.21
    Kamala Harris
    £152.96
    Gavin Newsom
    -£868.34
    Mike Pence
    -£963.20
    Michelle Obama
    -£482.64
    Hillary Clinton
    -£457.84
    Tulsi Gabbard
    -£927.44
    Dwayne Johnson
    -£956.84
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    -£767.84
    Liz Cheney
    -£948.54
    Nikki Haley & everyone else including the Donald.
    £139.32



    Betfair tells me this is worth -£6.71 to cash out at the moment.

    I'd pay you much more than that for it. Nice book, only real risk is DeSantis (maybe Newsom if Biden steps down but it could just as easily be 10 other Dems in that scenario) and your implied odds are tasty.
    Yeah a small negative on the cashout generally means it's in the black due to liquidity.

    I've also got Biden for the nom at Smarkets at around 2-1. Those docs are a bigger worry than his age! but with Pence story coming out it could end up like MP's expenses.
    Given the unlimited proliferation of classified documents, it's a fair bet that most presidents and VPs have carelessly hung on to a few without necessarily realising.
    The Trump case is very different - the deliberate removal of thousands of documents, some highly classified, from the WH, and a subsequent saga of deliberate lies and obstruction lasting years.

    The Biden and Pence cases seriously muddy the water, but perhaps insufficiently to save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Indeed, which is why the OneWeb and other launches for competitors are partly clever politics for SpaceX.

    SpaceX has repeatedly launched, now, competitors in the LEO data provision space to Starlink. At prices that are equal to those they've charged for other launches.

    Which shuts down charges of monopoly abuse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    AI could probably come up with the solutions to Britain's woes within about 5 minutes, but politicians wouldn't dare implement the required measures.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    AI potentially leads to mass unemployment
    Wouldn't it just cancel out the acute labour shortages? And let us retire at 60?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    64% of Republican Iowa Caucus goers in 2016 were evangelical Christians and Iowa is still the first Republican state to vote for their nominee. In 2016 they voted for Baptist Cruz not Trump

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2016/0202/The-two-numbers-that-explain-Iowa-caucus-vote
    Haley converted.
    She's also not a charisma free weirdo.
    Haley backs a 20 week abortion limit, which is softer than DeSantis and Trump let alone Pence who essentially wants to end abortion completely as most evangelicals do

    https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/06/24/pence-we-must-not-rest-until-abortion-is-outlawed-in-every-state-00042315
    Abortion is a large part of the Republicans losing the midterms.
    As we saw with Trump, the religious right are quite capable of voting for the candidate they think will win, rather than the fellow evangelical.
    Pence is certainly not the former; Haley is at the very least a 5% chance to be so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,510
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    It doesn't sound like the trammies experiment is going well.
    Lol! I haven’t started yet

    Might take 9 tonight
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,976
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pence is even more hardline on abortion than Trump though
    God carries out His own abortions - He just calls them "miscarriage".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    AI potentially leads to mass unemployment
    Wouldn't it just cancel out the acute labour shortages? And let us retire at 60?
    No, not without a robot tax funding a UBI
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,550
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    Oh good. I was getting worried we my be in some trouble. Applying the law of Leonadamus looks like things will be fine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline ...

    Load of horlicks.
    The next few years will certainly be pretty grim, but what happens then isn't yet written.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110

    Haley, like Krisit Noem, is auditioning for the VP slot.

    And apparently with better name recognition...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,531
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    In my line of work, Apple’s abuse of the patent system and relentless theft of other people’s IP mean it is truly hated by innovative SMEs and individual inventors, which lack the resources to fight back.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    In my line of work, Apple’s abuse of the patent system and relentless theft of other people’s IP mean it is truly hated by innovative SMEs and individual inventors, which lack the resources to fight back.

    Ooh okay, that’s a new angle I’ve not heard before. They’re stealing publishing IP?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110
    Here's something more for Leon to worry about.

    ‘Incredibly concerning’: Bird flu outbreak at Spanish mink farm triggers pandemic fears
    Spread among captive mink could give the H5N1 strain opportunities to evolve and adapt to mammals
    https://www.science.org/content/article/incredibly-concerning-bird-flu-outbreak-spanish-mink-farm-triggers-pandemic-fears
    ...But the episode, described in a paper in Eurosurveillance last week, has reignited long-smoldering fears that H5N1 could trigger a human pandemic. The virus is not known to spread well between mammals; people almost always catch it from infected birds, not one another. But now, H5N1 appears to have spread through a densely packed mammalian population and gained at least one mutation that favors mammal-to-mammal spread....

    Forget animal rights; Europe should ban mink farming on public health grounds.
    Mammalian serial passage in a biohazard level zero facility.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,919
    Nigelb said:

    Haley, like Krisit Noem, is auditioning for the VP slot.

    And apparently with better name recognition...
    Well, it helps when you've got a comet named* after you :wink:

    *well, within an easy typo, anyway
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,969
    Nigelb said:

    Here's something more for Leon to worry about.

    ‘Incredibly concerning’: Bird flu outbreak at Spanish mink farm triggers pandemic fears
    Spread among captive mink could give the H5N1 strain opportunities to evolve and adapt to mammals
    https://www.science.org/content/article/incredibly-concerning-bird-flu-outbreak-spanish-mink-farm-triggers-pandemic-fears
    ...But the episode, described in a paper in Eurosurveillance last week, has reignited long-smoldering fears that H5N1 could trigger a human pandemic. The virus is not known to spread well between mammals; people almost always catch it from infected birds, not one another. But now, H5N1 appears to have spread through a densely packed mammalian population and gained at least one mutation that favors mammal-to-mammal spread....

    Forget animal rights; Europe should ban mink farming on public health grounds.
    Mammalian serial passage in a biohazard level zero facility.

    Gaia is really upping its immunoresponse to the human virus right now.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,531
    Whoever the Republican candidate is US commitment to NATO is likely to become a big issue once more. That means Europe may well have only two years to gets its defence act together. It almost certainly won’t. That means Putin just has to hold on for two years. He almost certainly will. Our complacent dependence on the US is weak, cowardly and entirely self-defeating.

    The Germans are the punchbag and their lack of action over Ukraine has been appalling. But the failure to plan for a GOP president in 2025, with all that implies for Europe’s defence, is a collective one. It’s moral and political cowardice. A total abdication of responsibility. A disaster in the making.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    Why do you say that? The era of near zero interest rates appears to be over. There may have been a commodity price shock after the start of the war but prices have come down again. We might even get a reasonable correction in the housing market.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    edited January 25
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    In my line of work, Apple’s abuse of the patent system and relentless theft of other people’s IP mean it is truly hated by innovative SMEs and individual inventors, which lack the resources to fight back.

    Ooh okay, that’s a new angle I’ve not heard before. They’re stealing publishing IP?
    Patent theft (of tech) happened in the case I'm thinking of, which I cannot talk about.

    But as a CEO said to me: "How can we win? Apple have more lawyers than we have engineers."

    Which, by a roundabout route, led to this:
    http://www.fosspatents.com/2018/12/qualcomm-wins-envelope-tracker-patent_78.html
    and I believe this:
    https://9to5mac.com/2022/06/27/apple-vs-qualcomm-battle-over/

    But it's a long story.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    64% of Republican Iowa Caucus goers in 2016 were evangelical Christians and Iowa is still the first Republican state to vote for their nominee. In 2016 they voted for Baptist Cruz not Trump

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2016/0202/The-two-numbers-that-explain-Iowa-caucus-vote
    Haley converted.
    She's also not a charisma free weirdo.
    Haley backs a 20 week abortion limit, which is softer than DeSantis and Trump let alone Pence who essentially wants to end abortion completely as most evangelicals do

    https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/06/24/pence-we-must-not-rest-until-abortion-is-outlawed-in-every-state-00042315
    Abortion is a large part of the Republicans losing the midterms.
    As we saw with Trump, the religious right are quite capable of voting for the candidate they think will win, rather than the fellow evangelical.
    Pence is certainly not the former; Haley is at the very least a 5% chance to be so.
    Not really, it was Trumpite and anti abortion candidates winning key Senate and Governorship primaries that cost the GOP the Senate and key governors' races
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
    For hardline Roman Catholics Protestants are just as much heretics as atheists and non Christian religions
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,110

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    The LVMH of computing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    Oh indeed, but that in itself doesn’t give them a seat at the evil top table.

    Throwing lawyers at small, innovative, companies, is a different matter though. That’s heading towards evil.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018
    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    "Germany confirms it will send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine
    The German government has just confirmed that the decision to send 14 Leopard tanks to Ukraine was announced by Chancellor Scholz at a cabinet meeting this morning.

    Germany will also approve the export of Leopards by third countries."

    Huzzah!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-64396659
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,916
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    I would argue it's a mere continuation of the previous 15 years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited January 25
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
    Yes. Scholz and Germany give every impression of being utterly beholden to the USA for European security, unwilling or unable to do anything without Uncle Sam joining in.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,746
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
    For hardline Roman Catholics Protestants are just as much heretics as atheists and non Christian religions
    Not quite bro. The RC Catechism - the most recent 'Official' one says this:

    "Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised (BTW this means by anyone at all with water invoking the trinity) are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the (Roman) Catholic Church".

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,773
    edited January 25

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    edited January 25
    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,984
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    The LVMH of computing.
    True to an extent - they made their products into a combination of luxury good *and* good technology.

    The M series chips are game changers for instance.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,605

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    The LVMH of computing.
    True to an extent - they made their products into a combination of luxury good *and* good technology.

    The M series chips are game changers for instance.
    Yes, I'm getting an 14" M2 Pro today to replace my ageing 13" i7, I'm very excited.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,188
    edited January 25
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
    For hardline Roman Catholics Protestants are just as much heretics as atheists and non Christian religions
    Not quite bro. The RC Catechism - the most recent 'Official' one says this:

    "Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised (BTW this means by anyone at all with water invoking the trinity) are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the (Roman) Catholic Church".

    Imperfect being the key word there.

    Plus that is under the current more liberal Pope Francis.

    Many hardliners and traditionalist supporters of the late Pope Benedict and those who disagree with Vatican II would not even agree with that
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    The LVMH of computing.
    True to an extent - they made their products into a combination of luxury good *and* good technology.

    The M series chips are game changers for instance.
    I'd argue (with some vehemence) that the M series chips are the *first* time Apple have knocked tech out of the park. They're brilliantly good, and far better than rivals, or even ARM's reference jobbies (which to be fair, are for other purposes).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,829
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
    Yes. Scholz and Germany give every impression of being utterly beholden to the USA for European security, unwilling or unable to do anything without Uncle Sam joining in.
    'Germany needs to send Leopards RIGHT NOW!'

    Germany sends Leopards.

    'They're doing it for all the wrong reasons.'

    As predictable as Tory tax dodgers and BJ getting us to pay for his away days to Kiev..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,605
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    It's worth noting that Apple's best selling phones tend to be either the very top end of the range or the bottom. Fewer and fewer are buying the standard phones now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,739
    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
    It's interesting that he said 'type', singular. I guess it'll be a case of the following criteria fighting each other:
    *) What's available in enough numbers.
    *) What UA pilots and ground crew can be trained on quickly.
    *) What is good enough to make a real difference.
    *) What price the US is willing to pay.

    It'd be 'interesting' for them to get F16, and fly out of Poland (as Poland already has maintenance experience on F16's). After all, Russia attack from Belarussia...
This discussion has been closed.