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Nikki Haley at 17/1 looks value for the WH2024 GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

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  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited January 2023
    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    edited January 2023
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    It's worth noting that Apple's best selling phones tend to be either the very top end of the range or the bottom. Fewer and fewer are buying the standard phones now.
    I seem to be the only person who thinks the iPhone 14 Plus is the best option from their current range, mainly because it's noticeably lighter than the Pro models.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    It's worth noting that Apple's best selling phones tend to be either the very top end of the range or the bottom. Fewer and fewer are buying the standard phones now.
    Interesting. I have the SE2, and before that had two of the original SE. I still don’t understand why people pay £1,500 for a phone. My phone works as a phone, and as a 4G tether for the iPad - which lets me work a full day from the pub.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
    For hardline Roman Catholics Protestants are just as much heretics as atheists and non Christian religions
    Not quite bro. The RC Catechism - the most recent 'Official' one says this:

    "Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised (BTW this means by anyone at all with water invoking the trinity) are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the (Roman) Catholic Church".

    Imperfect being the key word there.

    Plus that is under the current more liberal Pope Francis.

    Many hardliners and traditionalist supporters of the late Pope Benedict and those who disagree with Vatican II would not even agree with that
    Look at the dates. The new RC Catechism was published in 1994 with the imprimatur of the then pope, a feller called JP II. The post Vatican II church is ecumenically liberal. Obviously there are members of the RC church (I am not a member) who privately disagree, just like they do on loads of things, but the modern teaching of the RC church is clear, under the wholly good influence especially of Karl Rahner, top theologian of the 20th century.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
    It's interesting that he said 'type', singular. I guess it'll be a case of the following criteria fighting each other:
    *) What's available in enough numbers.
    *) What UA pilots and ground crew can be trained on quickly.
    *) What is good enough to make a real difference.
    *) What price the US is willing to pay.

    It'd be 'interesting' for them to get F16, and fly out of Poland (as Poland already has maintenance experience on F16's). After all, Russia attack from Belarussia...
    And what's kicking around in Europe in significant numbers, so there's existing capacity for maintenance, logistics and training.
    All say F16.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
    Yes. Scholz and Germany give every impression of being utterly beholden to the USA for European security, unwilling or unable to do anything without Uncle Sam joining in.
    'Germany needs to send Leopards RIGHT NOW!'

    Germany sends Leopards.

    'They're doing it for all the wrong reasons.'

    As predictable as Tory tax dodgers and BJ getting us to pay for his away days to Kiev..
    I wanted Russian tanks in Kiev. I am getting US tanks in Kiev.

    I remain a master strategist.

    https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1618199099509190657
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    There's a 16th century woodcut called "How Monks are Born", showing the devil, sitting on a gallows, and defecating monks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.
    The LVMH of computing.
    True to an extent - they made their products into a combination of luxury good *and* good technology.

    The M series chips are game changers for instance.
    Yes, I'm getting an 14" M2 Pro today to replace my ageing 13" i7, I'm very excited.
    I was playing around with an M1 Air (the min spec one) - you can do very serious development on that. Video encoding isn't bad, either.

    The difference for apps compiled for the chipset is fairly major.

    I'm running an M1 Max Pro currently.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,816
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    It's worth noting that Apple's best selling phones tend to be either the very top end of the range or the bottom. Fewer and fewer are buying the standard phones now.
    Interesting. I have the SE2, and before that had two of the original SE. I still don’t understand why people pay £1,500 for a phone. My phone works as a phone, and as a 4G tether for the iPad - which lets me work a full day from the pub.
    But that's the point, someone who is willing to spend £400 on an SE won't get the £900 14, and a big chunk of people willing to spend £900 on a 14 are probably willing to spend an extra £200 for the best available. The middle of the market for them is being squeezed and it's turning into an issue because it's pushing more buyers than they'd like into the lower brackets. I think for the 15 we're going to get a proper revamp of the line up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
    It's interesting that he said 'type', singular. I guess it'll be a case of the following criteria fighting each other:
    *) What's available in enough numbers.
    *) What UA pilots and ground crew can be trained on quickly.
    *) What is good enough to make a real difference.
    *) What price the US is willing to pay.

    It'd be 'interesting' for them to get F16, and fly out of Poland (as Poland already has maintenance experience on F16's). After all, Russia attack from Belarussia...
    Given the training time for pilots on advanced military aircraft, the training might well have started a while back on the basis of "We will be prepared to sell these to you at some future date - maybe it will be when the war is over".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Whoever the Republican candidate is US commitment to NATO is likely to become a big issue once more. That means Europe may well have only two years to gets its defence act together. It almost certainly won’t. That means Putin just has to hold on for two years. He almost certainly will. Our complacent dependence on the US is weak, cowardly and entirely self-defeating.

    The Germans are the punchbag and their lack of action over Ukraine has been appalling. But the failure to plan for a GOP president in 2025, with all that implies for Europe’s defence, is a collective one. It’s moral and political cowardice. A total abdication of responsibility. A disaster in the making.

    Based on Woodward's book Trump wasn't that arsed about NATO (although I'm sure he'd like to leave if he could concentrate for long enough to do it). It was US forces in South Korea that he really wanted to bring back.

    The absolute burning imperative of his next presidency will be to impeach Biden and, ideally, Harris. Everything else, including NATO, is a second order issue.

    If Ukraine have any sense they will be fabricating a vast dossier of Biden compromat as insurance against a Trump victory. They won't get as much as a box of 7.62 out of him unless they've got something to offer.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Frozen: Trump's primary challengers balk at jumping into the unknown. Doesn't even mention Hailey...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/25/trump-republican-primary-challengers-2024-00079298
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.

    It's true that Apple makes a lot of profit, but you need to be careful about comparing Apple with device OEMs, who are usually not very profitable, and component suppliers to those OEMs who in some cases make a lot of money.

    So a company slapping a phone together using a Qualcomm reference design will not make much money, but Qualcomm does just fine selling the components to them.

    The same thing happens with PCs, the PC manufacturer struggles, but Intel and Microsoft keep raking it in.

    Beyond those visible suppliers are a lots of profitable companies where maybe one user in a hundred will have heard of them. Companies like SK Hynix, NXP, Analog Devices, Micron, Broadcom, and many more.

    If your business is branding some other companies work and they sell to your competitors you are going to struggle to make money, but that doesn't mean that nobody is earning from selling that gadget.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    Dura_Ace said:

    Whoever the Republican candidate is US commitment to NATO is likely to become a big issue once more. That means Europe may well have only two years to gets its defence act together. It almost certainly won’t. That means Putin just has to hold on for two years. He almost certainly will. Our complacent dependence on the US is weak, cowardly and entirely self-defeating.

    The Germans are the punchbag and their lack of action over Ukraine has been appalling. But the failure to plan for a GOP president in 2025, with all that implies for Europe’s defence, is a collective one. It’s moral and political cowardice. A total abdication of responsibility. A disaster in the making.

    Based on Woodward's book Trump wasn't that arsed about NATO (although I'm sure he'd like to leave if he could concentrate for long enough to do it). It was US forces in South Korea that he really wanted to bring back.

    The absolute burning imperative of his next presidency will be to impeach Biden and, ideally, Harris. Everything else, including NATO, is a second order issue.

    If Ukraine have any sense they will be fabricating a vast dossier of Biden compromat as insurance against a Trump victory. They won't get as much as a box of 7.62 out of him unless they've got something to offer.
    The Republicans would need to win the Senate first to even be able to retrospectively try and impeach Biden. Biden could of course beat Trump and be re elected anyway and then the DoJ press criminal charges against Trump
  • glw said:

    What is unusual about Apple is the their market share is small in each area, but they have captured the vast majority of the high sales, where the big profits are.

    Sure, a zillion non-Apple phones are sold. But iPhone takes most of the profit in that market.

    Same with computers. Tablets.

    It's true that Apple makes a lot of profit, but you need to be careful about comparing Apple with device OEMs, who are usually not very profitable, and component suppliers to those OEMs who in some cases make a lot of money.

    So a company slapping a phone together using a Qualcomm reference design will not make much money, but Qualcomm does just fine selling the components to them.

    The same thing happens with PCs, the PC manufacturer struggles, but Intel and Microsoft keep raking it in.

    Beyond those visible suppliers are a lots of profitable companies where maybe one user in a hundred will have heard of them. Companies like SK Hynix, NXP, Analog Devices, Micron, Broadcom, and many more.

    If your business is branding some other companies work and they sell to your competitors you are going to struggle to make money, but that doesn't mean that nobody is earning from selling that gadget.
    TSMC
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    There's a 16th century woodcut called "How Monks are Born", showing the devil, sitting on a gallows, and defecating monks.
    Thankfully a fair bit has changed and most religious people (at least in the cultures I know) are anxious to extend the boundaries and see the good in others. And the interfaith movement, along with Christian ecumenism has been running for ages.

    There are of course always extremes, because some people need to find identity, at least on part of their journey, by being right when all others are wrong. It is part of immaturity, and maturity comes with time.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Apparently the aim is to rapidly supply two battalions worth of Leopard 2 tanks - I think that's 112 tanks, which is more than I'd expected.
  • https://twitter.com/exstrategist/status/1617890977087385602

    Recall that this is what Labour faced. I was proud to vote against these morons.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    Pope Benedict said protestants can't have churches in 2007!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/11/catholicism.religion
    For hardline Roman Catholics Protestants are just as much heretics as atheists and non Christian religions
    Not quite bro. The RC Catechism - the most recent 'Official' one says this:

    "Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised (BTW this means by anyone at all with water invoking the trinity) are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the (Roman) Catholic Church".

    VM for you.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited January 2023
    148grss said:

    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)

    He needs somebody who is...

    At least MAGA adjacent and ideally Qurious.
    Was never a giaour on the subject of the stolen election.
    A pro-life religious nutcase.
    A beta cuck who won't grab too much attention from DJT.

    Josh Hawley? (Basically the IRL Jonah from Veep)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Nigelb said:

    Here's something more for Leon to worry about.

    ‘Incredibly concerning’: Bird flu outbreak at Spanish mink farm triggers pandemic fears
    Spread among captive mink could give the H5N1 strain opportunities to evolve and adapt to mammals
    https://www.science.org/content/article/incredibly-concerning-bird-flu-outbreak-spanish-mink-farm-triggers-pandemic-fears
    ...But the episode, described in a paper in Eurosurveillance last week, has reignited long-smoldering fears that H5N1 could trigger a human pandemic. The virus is not known to spread well between mammals; people almost always catch it from infected birds, not one another. But now, H5N1 appears to have spread through a densely packed mammalian population and gained at least one mutation that favors mammal-to-mammal spread....

    Forget animal rights; Europe should ban mink farming on public health grounds.
    Mammalian serial passage in a biohazard level zero facility.

    When I was at school I spent a couple of terms as school ferret cage cleaner-outer. I can't remember why the biology dept had ferrets, but I do remember the smell and filth - no wonder the cage had a chicken wire bottom and was raised off the ground. The thought of a whole farm of the things ...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    148grss said:

    Frozen: Trump's primary challengers balk at jumping into the unknown. Doesn't even mention Hailey...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/25/trump-republican-primary-challengers-2024-00079298

    Haley, on the other hand.
    ...The ads have all the hallmarks of a candidate building up to a national campaign: “Stand with Gov. DeSantis against the woke left,” one such ad reads. “Add your name.” But DeSantis is the exception to the rule. No other candidate has cracked $10,000 on Google since the beginning of the year. Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley’s Stand for America PAC came the closest at $9,800. ..
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Dura_Ace said:

    148grss said:

    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)

    He needs somebody who is...

    At least MAGA adjacent and ideally Qurious.
    Was never a giaour on the subject of the stolen election.
    A pro-life religious nutcase.
    A beta cuck who won't grab to much attention from DJT.

    Josh Hawley? (Basically the IRL Jonah from Veep)
    Hawley or Cotton could be VP, I guess, but they might fall on the too boring side for Trump. Mike Pence is dull now but he was once a pseudo shock jock right wing radio guy who did the DeSantis "everything is woke" schtick in the early 00's. Hawley and Cotton are not even that exciting...
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Frozen: Trump's primary challengers balk at jumping into the unknown. Doesn't even mention Hailey...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/25/trump-republican-primary-challengers-2024-00079298

    Haley, on the other hand.
    ...The ads have all the hallmarks of a candidate building up to a national campaign: “Stand with Gov. DeSantis against the woke left,” one such ad reads. “Add your name.” But DeSantis is the exception to the rule. No other candidate has cracked $10,000 on Google since the beginning of the year. Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley’s Stand for America PAC came the closest at $9,800. ..
    Apologies - missed than and misspelled... my mind sometimes. Even so, she is not going to win.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    148grss said:

    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)

    He needs somebody who is...

    At least MAGA adjacent and ideally Qurious.
    Was never a giaour on the subject of the stolen election.
    A pro-life religious nutcase.
    A beta cuck who won't grab to much attention from DJT.

    Josh Hawley? (Basically the IRL Jonah from Veep)
    Hawley or Cotton could be VP, I guess, but they might fall on the too boring side for Trump. Mike Pence is dull now but he was once a pseudo shock jock right wing radio guy who did the DeSantis "everything is woke" schtick in the early 00's. Hawley and Cotton are not even that exciting...
    Does a VP need to be born in the US, like the president. If so, this Cotton can't do it... ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Dura_Ace said:

    Whoever the Republican candidate is US commitment to NATO is likely to become a big issue once more. That means Europe may well have only two years to gets its defence act together. It almost certainly won’t. That means Putin just has to hold on for two years. He almost certainly will. Our complacent dependence on the US is weak, cowardly and entirely self-defeating.

    The Germans are the punchbag and their lack of action over Ukraine has been appalling. But the failure to plan for a GOP president in 2025, with all that implies for Europe’s defence, is a collective one. It’s moral and political cowardice. A total abdication of responsibility. A disaster in the making.

    Based on Woodward's book Trump wasn't that arsed about NATO (although I'm sure he'd like to leave if he could concentrate for long enough to do it). It was US forces in South Korea that he really wanted to bring back...
    The President is doing his best in regard to contingency planning.
    ...During US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to South Korea, part of a larger tour of Asia, on 4 August 2022, Yoon snubbed a meeting with her, stating that he wanted to enjoy his vacation...

    On the other hand, he's a former chief prosecutor* who's prosecuted two ex presidents, so that might rub Trump up the wrong way.

    (*Who failed the bar exam nine years running.)
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Unless they can grind it out in the courts, and get a second Trump administration to abandon this anti-trust suit, Google look as though they're facing some very serious penalties.
    The detail in the linked thread is impressive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1618029720599408643
    ok, let's do this. I've now read all 153 pages of United States vs Google filed earlier today. As I've said earlier, Google is royally screwed.

    The suit is super well-written building on prior work investigating Google’s market power abuse leveraging advertising technologies. ...

    Microsoft was only saved from breakup by Apple resurrecting themselves.

    Not sure that Google won't be facing the same thing.
    There’s a lot of anti-trust stuff going on in the US at the moment. Google, Facebook, Ticketmaster and others under scrutiny, with cross-party support for serious action against these monopolistic practices.
    Apple needs to be broken up. They're really bad for the industry, and are bad actors within it.
    The way I look at the hierarchy of tech giants, is to see who’s complaining about them.

    Most of the people complaining about Apple, are large multinational corporations worried that Apple is eating into their profit margins.

    Sure, they’re a big company, but there’s a lot more companies well ahead of them in the evil stakes. First, look at the companies where those complaining are mostly small businesses and individuals.
    In my line of work, Apple’s abuse of the patent system and relentless theft of other people’s IP mean it is truly hated by innovative SMEs and individual inventors, which lack the resources to fight back.

    Ooh okay, that’s a new angle I’ve not heard before. They’re stealing publishing IP?
    They're stealing whatever they can get away with! The reason it is so little known is that those who are suffering the consequences not only lack the legal resources to do anything about it, they also do not have the money for effective comms or lobbying. To be fair, though, it's not just the small guys Apple appropriates from. It's everyone. Sometimes, though, they have to admit defeat. They recently did so with Ericsson, for example. But that's because Ericsson has the cash to go toe-to-toe with them.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Dura_Ace said:

    148grss said:

    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)

    He needs somebody who is...

    At least MAGA adjacent and ideally Qurious.
    Was never a giaour on the subject of the stolen election.
    A pro-life religious nutcase.
    A beta cuck who won't grab too much attention from DJT.

    Josh Hawley? (Basically the IRL Jonah from Veep)
    Running Man is unlikely to be in the running.
    https://www.indy100.com/politics/josh-hawley-memes-trump-jan-6
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    148grss said:

    The GOP race is going to be between DeSantis and Trump, and Trump is the only politician willing to actively attack opponents, and that comes across as "strong" to the base, so he will likely win. Unless he dies between now and then, or something unimaginable happens (like Congress barring him from standing or someone putting him in jail), he will be the next GOP nominee.

    What I find harder to imagine is who his VP will be. He won't have anyone he considers disloyal - which essentially means anyone who was still involved with the Trump WH in 2020 who didn't back his ridiculous attempt to stay in power. No one significant still seems to be sucking up to him - no senators or governors are going out of their way to court him or keep on his good side.

    The kind of people in the house he might want to pick - the MTGs or Matt Gaetz's of the caucus - would hog too much spotlight themselves (and also not help his electoral chances)...

    So, thinking like Trump, the best bet would be a right winger who is loyal to Trump, more of a celebrity than a politician. That makes me think Tucker Carlson or maybe Mike Huckabee type? There have been some rumours that he's looking for a woman for the VP spot to cover his weakness with middle class white suburban women, but none of his choices that could help with that group would be acceptable to his ego. Maybe Palin (although again, she would hog too much spotlight). Or, in an attempt to make in roads with more African American men, a black republican / celebrity like (proven loser) Herschel Walker? With the kind of people Trump is willing to meet (see Ye West and Nick Fuentes) it could also be some more... extreme online entity.

    If it wasn't for his daughter's obvious distain for the Jan 6th stuff, I would have guessed he'd pick her.

    Edit: Oh, also let's not forget the possibility of some techno fascist candidate backed by the likes of Theil or Musk (or even Musk himself)

    He needs somebody who is...

    At least MAGA adjacent and ideally Qurious.
    Was never a giaour on the subject of the stolen election.
    A pro-life religious nutcase.
    A beta cuck who won't grab to much attention from DJT.

    Josh Hawley? (Basically the IRL Jonah from Veep)
    Hawley or Cotton could be VP, I guess, but they might fall on the too boring side for Trump. Mike Pence is dull now but he was once a pseudo shock jock right wing radio guy who did the DeSantis "everything is woke" schtick in the early 00's. Hawley and Cotton are not even that exciting...
    Does a VP need to be born in the US, like the president. If so, this Cotton can't do it... ;)
    Twelfth Amendment: if you're ineligible to be president you can't be VP either.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
    It's interesting that he said 'type', singular. I guess it'll be a case of the following criteria fighting each other:
    *) What's available in enough numbers.
    *) What UA pilots and ground crew can be trained on quickly.
    *) What is good enough to make a real difference.
    *) What price the US is willing to pay.

    It'd be 'interesting' for them to get F16, and fly out of Poland (as Poland already has maintenance experience on F16's). After all, Russia attack from Belarussia...
    Viper would need a lot infrastructure upgrades inside Ukraine as they need very long and smooth runways due to their lightweight landing gear. Soviet runways are like County Durham B roads in terms of surface.

    Ukraine are outgunned by the Russian Su-35/Adder combo which is a fucking big stick. To get close to parity they need an AIM-120 shooter.

    So, rugged field capable, AIM-120 platform available in quantity = Legacy Hornet

    Of course the unimpeachable source for this pilot rumour is some fucking nobody wanking out hopium on Twitter so who knows...

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Can't see Ted setting the markets, or the primary voters, alight either.

    TED CRUZ: The FBI needs to search the University of Delaware and Hunter Biden's home and business addresses

    LARRY KUDLOW: What about Pence, a friend of both of ours, who found classified documents in his home?

    CRUZ: Oh look, Mike Pence has explained where these came from

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1618000980825591808
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmmmm....

    "Our military pilots traveled to the US. The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to 🇺🇦 and the corresponding terms for pilot training have already been determined," - Yuriy Ignat, speaker of the Ukrainian Air Force.

    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1617868545731465217

    Where are they going?

    Arizona: F-16
    Oregon: F-15C
    North Carolina: F-15E
    California/Virginia: F/A-18
    Arkansas: C-130
    Florida: U-28 (fucking LOL)
    Nevada: Su-27 (wildcard)
    It's interesting that he said 'type', singular. I guess it'll be a case of the following criteria fighting each other:
    *) What's available in enough numbers.
    *) What UA pilots and ground crew can be trained on quickly.
    *) What is good enough to make a real difference.
    *) What price the US is willing to pay.

    It'd be 'interesting' for them to get F16, and fly out of Poland (as Poland already has maintenance experience on F16's). After all, Russia attack from Belarussia...
    Viper would need a lot infrastructure upgrades inside Ukraine as they need very long and smooth runways due to their lightweight landing gear. Soviet runways are like County Durham B roads in terms of surface.

    Ukraine are outgunned by the Russian Su-35/Adder combo which is a fucking big stick. To get close to parity they need an AIM-120 shooter.

    So, rugged field capable, AIM-120 platform available in quantity = Legacy Hornet

    Of course the unimpeachable source for this pilot rumour is some fucking nobody wanking out hopium on Twitter so who knows...
    Who knows indeed. Was not long ago that some people cited the lack of Western tanks supplied to Ukraine as evidence the US didn't want Ukraine to win the war.

    Maybe the people who saw something on twitter and mistakenly thought it was ATACMS will see time at least partially erase that mistake too.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    Britain is completely fucked on almost every metric. We are entering a two decade spiral of inexorable decline - some might argue it is a mere continuation of the previous 15 years

    Maybe AI can save us. Let’s hope so. Because our politicians sure as hell don’t have a clue. We risk becoming a mix of Italy and Argentina but with worse migration problems and less sun. So, worse

    Our politics have certainly become Italian.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
    Yes. Scholz and Germany give every impression of being utterly beholden to the USA for European security, unwilling or unable to do anything without Uncle Sam joining in.
    There's too much facile moaning about the Germans imo. Ukraine is difficult for Scholz. Far more so than for a British PM (or galivanting ex PM). The challenge for them is to support Ukraine but avoid it looking like (or risk it sliding into) a military conflict between Russia and Germany. Therefore it's key the US remains as clear leader of the response. This is understandable and sensible from the German perspective - and in any case simply a recognition of reality.

    Helping Ukraine is a joint undertaking but the US is the most important participant. Talk of "the west" in this conflict largely means America. We might one day see an end to the arrangement of the US defending Europe via NATO, replaced by some sort of Common European Capability, makes sense but it's yonks away, outside the timeframe of the Ukraine war even if it drags on for years.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Whoever the Republican candidate is US commitment to NATO is likely to become a big issue once more. That means Europe may well have only two years to gets its defence act together. It almost certainly won’t. That means Putin just has to hold on for two years. He almost certainly will. Our complacent dependence on the US is weak, cowardly and entirely self-defeating.

    The Germans are the punchbag and their lack of action over Ukraine has been appalling. But the failure to plan for a GOP president in 2025, with all that implies for Europe’s defence, is a collective one. It’s moral and political cowardice. A total abdication of responsibility. A disaster in the making.

    Based on Woodward's book Trump wasn't that arsed about NATO (although I'm sure he'd like to leave if he could concentrate for long enough to do it). It was US forces in South Korea that he really wanted to bring back.

    The absolute burning imperative of his next presidency will be to impeach Biden and, ideally, Harris. Everything else, including NATO, is a second order issue.

    If Ukraine have any sense they will be fabricating a vast dossier of Biden compromat as insurance against a Trump victory. They won't get as much as a box of 7.62 out of him unless they've got something to offer.

    The Republican base seems to be increasingly sceptical of supporting the Ukrainians. I am not sure how you get to be the party's presidential nominee without promising a significant reduction in military and financial backing for them.

  • Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    That's higher than I thought. I thought they and Samsung were comparable now at about a quarter of the market each, with half the market going elsewhere. Apple having a majority is very surprising to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    This Politico article provides fair warning to all who think the nomination contests are already determined.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/25/the-wildly-misleading-2024-speculation-is-about-to-begin-00079104
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Defense forces have withdrawn from Soledar in the Donbas. This decision was made to save the lives of Ukrainian soldiers, the spokesman for the Eastern Group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Serhiy Cherevatyi told Suspilne.
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1618216298609258499
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Nikki Haley is a quarter of a century younger than Biden or Trump and a lot prettier than either. Trump's policies are like Bojo's - variable. Or like Sadiq Khan's - depending on whom he's talking to.

    She's had some political experience without being sacked, she's a bit ethnic, and the next American election could be thin gruel. Afghanistan may not approve, but she must have a chance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    edited January 2023
    Kate Bingham article.
    The arguments are to an extent self-pleading, but I don't disagree with them.

    Britain is losing its chance to become a life sciences superpower
    Short-termism and suspicion in parts of government risk our valuable future in precision medicine
    https://www.ft.com/content/70e1733d-ecd9-4c8e-bd6a-54b31377ede3
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Favourite for the VP slot, I think.

    I agree with Mike; worth a trading bet at 17/1.
    More chance than Pence.

    Pence has a chance in the evangelical dominated Iowa caucuses at least, being an evangelical himself unlike Trump and Roman Catholic DeSantis. If he won that then that would make him a contender as it did Cruz in 2016, Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008 and Bush in 2000.

    Haley has no chance in Iowa or NH and probably not even her home state of South Carolina
    I note your views.
    Pence has very little widespread support - he was considered a bit of dunce, even by the evangelicals. He's hated by the Trumpets, the anti-Trumpets don't want his brand of ultra-religious right stuff.

    American political religion is a strange one - plenty of evangelicals will happily vote for a hard core Catholic, these days.
    During my brief dalliance with evangelical Christianity many, many years ago, I was told that Roman Catholics were not Christians. One of the reasons the dalliance was brief!
    That's rather common in religions - Religion X : variant A states the variant B isn't of religion X

    During the Wars of Religion, quite a few Catholics said that Protestants weren't Christians, IIRC. Some Protestants claimed that the Catholic Church was so corrupt, that it was really devil worship.

    Same thing in Islam.

    In American Religious politics, the who "culture war" + abortion thing has become a meeting ground. The litmus test is how hard core on those issues the politician is, not so much their denomination.

    Much of the remaining support for Trump is because he delivered all the judges (and more) that he promised. Overturning Roe vs Wade was *the* victory these people wanted.
    There's a 16th century woodcut called "How Monks are Born", showing the devil, sitting on a gallows, and defecating monks.
    Thankfully a fair bit has changed and most religious people (at least in the cultures I know) are anxious to extend the boundaries and see the good in others. And the interfaith movement, along with Christian ecumenism has been running for ages.

    There are of course always extremes, because some people need to find identity, at least on part of their journey, by being right when all others are wrong. It is part of immaturity, and maturity comes with time.
    Actually, I rather enjoy good old-fashioned theological invective.

    Sir Thomas More claiming that Martin Luther sucked worms from the very anus of the devil. or John Calvin branding his opponents as lecherous epicurean pigs, cesspits bubbling with hellfire.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apple moreso than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon has essentially created a modern day cult religion. Their share of the phone market in the USA is astonishing.

    50% or thereabouts of smartphone sales, not as high as often thought.
    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
    That's higher than I thought. I thought they and Samsung were comparable now at about a quarter of the market each, with half the market going elsewhere. Apple having a majority is very surprising to me.
    IIRC, Apple has around a 20-25% share of worldwide smartphone sales, but it’s 50% in the US and UK. Their market share is much lower in Asia.
  • Watching my first PMQs of the year. Sunak looks deeply uncomfortable and has Raaaaaab whispering things in his ear. 3 questions about the gratuitous failings of the Probation Service gets answered with "look at all the money being spent on the service isn't it marvellous".

    And now onto Zahawi where amazingly enough Sunak says "new information has come to light". Which is bollocks as we knew all this last week.

    I can hear tinges of John Major in his answers. Whiny and mealy-mouthed whilst trying to defend a wafer-thin defensive position.

    "We all know why he didn't want to ask his party chairman about family tax avoidance" - oooooh matron. "Is he starting to wonder if this job is too big for him"

    Finally, the new SNP leader heard in silence as he calmly asks a sucker-punch question about dodgy personal finance. Very different to his predecessor who would be shouted down whatever he said.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    CD13 said:

    Nikki Haley is a quarter of a century younger than Biden or Trump and a lot prettier than either. Trump's policies are like Bojo's - variable. Or like Sadiq Khan's - depending on whom he's talking to.

    She's had some political experience without being sacked, she's a bit ethnic, and the next American election could be thin gruel. Afghanistan may not approve, but she must have a chance.

    She's a former governor, and almost uniquely, managed to serve loyally in the Trump administration without getting any serious dirt attached, or destroying her reputation (accepting the UN post was smart).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited January 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Has this been done yet? ChatGPT composes an "authentic" Burns night poem about PB.com

    Ah'd like tae write ye a braw verse,
    aboot the online political curse.
    Fou web forums, aye day an' night,
    debates a-ragin, sic a sight!

    Wi words sae hie, an' passions hot,
    thay mak thair case, an' clash a lot.
    But let us a' mind Burns' words true,
    "Man's tocherless, man's tocherless, man's tocherless,
    Let aa thir joys an' aa thir cares be!"

    So let's raise a glass tae guid will,
    an' tak a step back frae the online thrill.

    Nah!

    Still prefer the original. It applies to PB as well.

    "While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things,
    The fate of Empires and the fall of Kings;
    While quacks of State must each produce his plan,
    And even children lisp the Rights of Man;
    Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention,
    The Rights of Woman merit some attention.
    "
    We’ve just got a step closer to PB nirvana and managed to combine Scotland, AI and the trans debate in a single exchange. Just tidal power, woke, doctrinal pronouncements on the Church of England and Brexit to go.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    TimS said:

    Has this been done yet? ChatGPT composes an "authentic" Burns night poem about PB.com

    Ah'd like tae write ye a braw verse,
    aboot the online political curse.
    Fou web forums, aye day an' night,
    debates a-ragin, sic a sight!

    Wi words sae hie, an' passions hot,
    thay mak thair case, an' clash a lot.
    But let us a' mind Burns' words true,
    "Man's tocherless, man's tocherless, man's tocherless,
    Let aa thir joys an' aa thir cares be!"

    So let's raise a glass tae guid will,
    an' tak a step back frae the online thrill.

    I gave that a like but it reads more like something out of the Broons than the immortal bard!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    That would put at risk one of Britains great creative industries - estate agents working out what dining room/second lounge, downstairs cupboard they could possibly label as a bedroom for the purpose of selling!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    It’s always seemed an odd one. Like analysing cars fuel economy using shopping trips per gallon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    You'd think he'd have better prepared one-liners.

    Rishi Sunak, holding an entire folder's worth of pre-prepared responses, accuses Keir Starmer of reading from a list of pre-prepared questions
    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1618220518037164033
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    That would put at risk one of Britains great creative industries - estate agents working out what dining room/second lounge, downstairs cupboard they could possibly label as a bedroom for the purpose of selling!
    Yes, estate agents seem to dislike discussing square footage. If you insist on talking that way there'll be an 'atmosphere'.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited January 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
  • Watching my first PMQs of the year. Sunak looks deeply uncomfortable and has Raaaaaab whispering things in his ear. 3 questions about the gratuitous failings of the Probation Service gets answered with "look at all the money being spent on the service isn't it marvellous".

    And now onto Zahawi where amazingly enough Sunak says "new information has come to light". Which is bollocks as we knew all this last week.

    I can hear tinges of John Major in his answers. Whiny and mealy-mouthed whilst trying to defend a wafer-thin defensive position.

    "We all know why he didn't want to ask his party chairman about family tax avoidance" - oooooh matron. "Is he starting to wonder if this job is too big for him"

    Finally, the new SNP leader heard in silence as he calmly asks a sucker-punch question about dodgy personal finance. Very different to his predecessor who would be shouted down whatever he said.

    Flynn much better than Starmer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    It’s always seemed an odd one. Like analysing cars fuel economy using shopping trips per gallon.
    Yes, I think focusing on ppsqft is discouraged because they are selling the dream.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited January 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    It’s a really weird one that. Everywhere else in the world seems to have the total sq ft (or sqm) front and centre in property advertising.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not just the NHS:

    …. health-care systems in much of the rich world are closer to collapse than at any point since the disease started to spread. Unlike for unemployment or gdp, there are few comparable, up-to-date figures on health-care performance across countries. So The Economist has trawled statistics produced by countries, regions and even individual hospitals to paint a picture of what is going on. The results suggest patients, doctors and nurses are experiencing the brutal after-effects of the pandemic.

    https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/01/15/why-health-care-services-are-in-chaos-everywhere

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    It’s a really weird one that. Everywhere else in the world seems to have the total sq ft (or sqm) front and centre in property advertising.
    I love the rural French property ads (apart from the fact they always keep the location a secret because most list with multiple agents). They quote the “habitable” sq m. So you’ll get an ad for a sprawling farmhouse with outbuildings, massive loft and walk in cellar and it’ll be “150m2 habitable”.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited January 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    To an extent, but not entirely, especially in the WFH era - I'd happily have a smaller master bedroom and living room to get a second bedroom that I can use as an office space. I don't want to have my work desk in either of those other rooms.

    (Edit: and that's speaking as someone without children - for families the number of bedrooms is surely critical?)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Yes but England has over 10 times the population density of the US and a third more population density than even Japan.

    We could do with more emigrants and less immigrants ironically given our relatively small landmass and then we wouldn't have to build so small new houses to fit the population all in! The overcrowded London and the Home counties properties wouldn't be as expensive either
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    Yes. Also it takes the romance away. They want buyers favouring heart over head. That's how to achieve a 'sellers price'.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Watching my first PMQs of the year. Sunak looks deeply uncomfortable and has Raaaaaab whispering things in his ear. 3 questions about the gratuitous failings of the Probation Service gets answered with "look at all the money being spent on the service isn't it marvellous".

    And now onto Zahawi where amazingly enough Sunak says "new information has come to light". Which is bollocks as we knew all this last week.

    I can hear tinges of John Major in his answers. Whiny and mealy-mouthed whilst trying to defend a wafer-thin defensive position.

    "We all know why he didn't want to ask his party chairman about family tax avoidance" - oooooh matron. "Is he starting to wonder if this job is too big for him"

    Finally, the new SNP leader heard in silence as he calmly asks a sucker-punch question about dodgy personal finance. Very different to his predecessor who would be shouted down whatever he said.

    Flynn much better than Starmer.
    I thought it interesting that he went on a general (and very effective) attack on finances rather than raising S.25 again. I wonder if they’ve worked out that it’s not the vote winner they thought it was? A huge improvement on the Fat Crofter.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,833
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Spain and Norway now joining the growing list of countries thought to be about to announce they are sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

    If the announcements come today it will only be 11 days since the British announcement on sending Challenger 2 tanks.

    And credit to @kamski , who took a fair amount of flak, but was correct in predicting Scholz would finally agree.

    I note it's reported the US tanks (30 plus) will not be from military stocks, but ordered from the manufacturer.
    So Germany gets its political cover, and Ukraine won't have to deal with two sets of very complicated logistics this year.
    Yes I guess it's a certainty that there will be Leopard tanks in Ukraine long before there are Abrams tanks. Which is why I suggested last week that the German government stating there was no requirement for US and German tanks to be "delivered" simultaneously, was a slightly ambiguous way of keeping their options open, rather than a complete contradiction of all the earlier indications that Germany wouldn't send tanks without a commitment from the US to send tanks too.

    Scholz will probably now argue (at least to his coalition partners and critics within government) that his approach was the right one, if he has ensured a US commitment to tanks, and avoided what he would say was a potentially dangerous uncoupling of US and German/European support for Ukraine.
    Yes. Scholz and Germany give every impression of being utterly beholden to the USA for European security, unwilling or unable to do anything without Uncle Sam joining in.
    There's too much facile moaning about the Germans imo. Ukraine is difficult for Scholz. Far more so than for a British PM (or galivanting ex PM). The challenge for them is to support Ukraine but avoid it looking like (or risk it sliding into) a military conflict between Russia and Germany. Therefore it's key the US remains as clear leader of the response. This is understandable and sensible from the German perspective - and in any case simply a recognition of reality.

    Helping Ukraine is a joint undertaking but the US is the most important participant. Talk of "the west" in this conflict largely means America. We might one day see an end to the arrangement of the US defending Europe via NATO, replaced by some sort of Common European Capability, makes sense but it's yonks away, outside the timeframe of the Ukraine war even if it drags on for years.
    Other countries were happy to take the lead but Germany stopped them. Here's the take of Germanophile Timothy Garton-Ash.

    https://twitter.com/fromTGA/status/1617131957594329088?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

    They've undoubtedly done a good job on energy.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited January 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    Yes. Also it takes the romance away. They want buyers favouring heart over head. That's how to achieve a 'sellers price'.
    A good point. The UK is traditionally a sellers market and the exclusivity in most agent contracts means they really chase sellers, not buyers. Buyers are the product.

    In France it’s usually a buyers market and listings are rarely exclusive. So the agents are always hunting for buyers and the sellers are generally just price takers. The house is the product.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    To an extent, but not entirely, especially in the WFH era - I'd happily have a smaller master bedroom and living room to get a second bedroom that I can use as an office space. I don't want to have my work desk in either of those other rooms.

    (Edit: and that's speaking as someone without children - for families the number of bedrooms is surely critical?)
    That's number of rooms not bedrooms specifically. But, yes, so there you're into the 'open plan v divided up' question. Matter of taste and/or how you plan to live. Plus you can change that stuff. Knock walls down, put them in. It's still space that you're really buying.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,833
    The thing is he may not be very good at it but one of the reasons I like Sunak is that he doesn't seem to take PMQs too seriously.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited January 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    I'd hate, now, to be without a large garden. It's an excellent place to relax in when scorching hot.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    To an extent, but not entirely, especially in the WFH era - I'd happily have a smaller master bedroom and living room to get a second bedroom that I can use as an office space. I don't want to have my work desk in either of those other rooms.

    (Edit: and that's speaking as someone without children - for families the number of bedrooms is surely critical?)
    That's number of rooms not bedrooms specifically. But, yes, so there you're into the 'open plan v divided up' question. Matter of taste and/or how you plan to live. Plus you can change that stuff. Knock walls down, put them in. It's still space that you're really buying.
    I'd say that number of bedrooms and total size are both important. If it's a period house you're probably not going to want to mess with the interior layout too much. It's not like the total m2 is hidden away, it'll be shown in the floor plan that eg Rightmove will always have.
  • The thing is he may not be very good at it but one of the reasons I like Sunak is that he doesn't seem to take PMQs too seriously.

    You don't win or lose elections based on performance at PMQs - ask William Hague about that! So I see what you mean, with the large caveat that the stench of death of this government permeates beyond the commons chamber at noon on a Wednesday...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    That’s insanely small. I live in a 2 bed apartment of 1,200 sq ft, about 110 sqm.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    Christ that's horrific. A 4 bed house should be twice that size. 89m2 is a good size for a 3 bed flat.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Space Standards for Studio Flats
    By definition, studio flats must be set on a single storey. Their minimum gross internal area is either 39 sqm with a bathroom, or 37 sqm with a shower room.

    This must include provision for at least 1 sqm of built-in storage.

    Space Standards for One-bedroom Flats
    One-bedroom two-person (1b2p) flats over a single storey must be at least 50 sqm, or 58 sqm over two storeys. They must be able to accommodate at least 1.5 sqm of built-in storage.

    Space Standards for Two-bedroom Flats
    As for two-bedroom flats over a single storey, they either need to have a footprint of 61 sqm to accommodate three bedspaces, or of 70 sqm to accommodate four bedspaces.

    And so on for the rest of the possible flat configurations listed.



    https://urbanistarchitecture.co.uk/minimum-space-standards/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
  • Housing in this country should have floorspace (sq m) as a standard, and prominent, part of this listing information.
    IIRC, this was mooted under Labour in the 00s, but fell by the wayside due to - surprise, surprise - resistance from housebuilders.
  • Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    That’s insanely small. I live in a 2 bed apartment of 1,200 sq ft, about 110 sqm.
    This is the problem with the housing sector in the UK. Some just say "build more homes" but the homes being built are largely stuck where the developers want to a design the developers create and done at the lowest possible cost.

    We are building the wrong houses in the wrong places, and with shitbox construction standards. No wonder people get up in arms about outfits like Keepmoat proposing yet another development of "executive" homes crushed into a very small space with zero capacity added to schools, roads, service infrastructure etc etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    Christ that's horrific. A 4 bed house should be twice that size. 89m2 is a good size for a 3 bed flat.
    It'll be a bit more than that with the halls and landings, but this is pretty standard for new housing. Half tempted to buy a laser measurement device and see what my house is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited January 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    That’s insanely small. I live in a 2 bed apartment of 1,200 sq ft, about 110 sqm.
    This is the problem with the housing sector in the UK. Some just say "build more homes" but the homes being built are largely stuck where the developers want to a design the developers create and done at the lowest possible cost.

    We are building the wrong houses in the wrong places, and with shitbox construction standards. No wonder people get up in arms about outfits like Keepmoat proposing yet another development of "executive" homes crushed into a very small space with zero capacity added to schools, roads, service infrastructure etc etc.
    When I become UnDictator, the rules on housing will be changed.

    One change is that the minimum dimension on any room in any new property is 5m.

    Yes, even the Throne Room(s).

    In my UK, every man will be a King.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    Christ that's horrific. A 4 bed house should be twice that size. 89m2 is a good size for a 3 bed flat.
    It'll be a bit more than that with the halls and landings, but this is pretty standard for new housing. Half tempted to buy a laser measurement device and see what my house is.
    It’s 112sqm which is the minimum for a 4 bedroom 6 bed 3 storey build.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    Bassetlaw is quite rural. Not a massive amount of migrants either.

    The issue is the standard "house" that builders chuck up these days is tiny, because they all do it and can get away with it with the big housing shortage everywhere.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    That’s insanely small. I live in a 2 bed apartment of 1,200 sq ft, about 110 sqm.
    This is the problem with the housing sector in the UK. Some just say "build more homes" but the homes being built are largely stuck where the developers want to a design the developers create and done at the lowest possible cost.

    We are building the wrong houses in the wrong places, and with shitbox construction standards. No wonder people get up in arms about outfits like Keepmoat proposing yet another development of "executive" homes crushed into a very small space with zero capacity added to schools, roads, service infrastructure etc etc.
    The genius of the politicians, architects, engineers and developers of the UK can be summed up thus.

    "A man who has a specified employee to put the toothpaste on his toothbrush is more in touch with what ordinary people want, for housing, than the you."
  • Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    Bassetlaw is quite rural. Not a massive amount of migrants either.

    The issue is the standard "house" that builders chuck up these days is tiny, because they all do it and can get away with it with the big housing shortage everywhere.
    And then prannocks pop up and say "they are selling, so they must be what people want".

    That's all that is being built...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    You want to compare the South of England with the whole of Japan?
    Why not compare Greater Tokyo Area (population 38 million, density 2600 people/sq km) with the whole of the UK (density 281 people/ sq km)?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    Christ that's horrific. A 4 bed house should be twice that size. 89m2 is a good size for a 3 bed flat.
    It'll be a bit more than that with the halls and landings, but this is pretty standard for new housing. Half tempted to buy a laser measurement device and see what my house is.
    It’s 112sqm which is the minimum for a 4 bedroom 6 bed 3 storey build.
    Give a housebuilder a minimum...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    To an extent, but not entirely, especially in the WFH era - I'd happily have a smaller master bedroom and living room to get a second bedroom that I can use as an office space. I don't want to have my work desk in either of those other rooms.

    (Edit: and that's speaking as someone without children - for families the number of bedrooms is surely critical?)
    That's number of rooms not bedrooms specifically. But, yes, so there you're into the 'open plan v divided up' question. Matter of taste and/or how you plan to live. Plus you can change that stuff. Knock walls down, put them in. It's still space that you're really buying.
    I'd say that number of bedrooms and total size are both important. If it's a period house you're probably not going to want to mess with the interior layout too much. It's not like the total m2 is hidden away, it'll be shown in the floor plan that eg Rightmove will always have.
    Yes you can get it. Plus I'd check it too as a buyer. What I've noticed - and this isn't a massive surprise - is square footage tends to be highlighted if it's bigger than you'd think from the 'bedrooms' metric.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    Bassetlaw is quite rural. Not a massive amount of migrants either.

    The issue is the standard "house" that builders chuck up these days is tiny, because they all do it and can get away with it with the big housing shortage everywhere.
    Planning is part of it - density is required. So jamming more tiny properties on a given space is rewarded.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    You want to compare the South of England with the whole of Japan?
    Why not compare Greater Tokyo Area (population 38 million, density 2600 people/sq km) with the whole of the UK (density 281 people/ sq km)?
    England's population density is 434 people/sq km.

    Japan’s population density is only 338.2 people/sq km.

    Tokyo builds up more than London and uses more skyscrapers and towerblocks for apartments than our capital admittedly

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Soon to be a regular sight prowling the fields of Ukraine.

    📸 A Challenger 2 and a Leopard 2 on exercise in Poland.

    🔜 🐆

    #WeStandWithUkraine


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1618231382144163840
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    Bassetlaw is quite rural. Not a massive amount of migrants either.

    The issue is the standard "house" that builders chuck up these days is tiny, because they all do it and can get away with it with the big housing shortage everywhere.
    Planning is part of it - density is required. So jamming more tiny properties on a given space is rewarded.
    There's really no need to have such pokey requirements in rural areas - cities are another matter I grant you. Plenty of room here around Worksop. Very sad that quality of life doesn't seem to be on whoever makes these decisions radar
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    You want to compare the South of England with the whole of Japan?
    Why not compare Greater Tokyo Area (population 38 million, density 2600 people/sq km) with the whole of the UK (density 281 people/ sq km)?
    England's population density is 434 people/sq km.

    Japan’s population density is only 338.2 people/sq km.

    Tokyo builds up more than London and uses more skyscrapers and towerblocks for apartments than our capital admittedly

    Unless you've done an about-turn on Scottish (etc) independence, if you want to talk about whole countries then Japan (despite being three quarters mountains) is more densely populated than the UK.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    Bassetlaw is quite rural. Not a massive amount of migrants either.

    The issue is the standard "house" that builders chuck up these days is tiny, because they all do it and can get away with it with the big housing shortage everywhere.
    Planning is part of it - density is required. So jamming more tiny properties on a given space is rewarded.
    But also the houses that are built - semis and detached houses - look at Regency housing density - 4 or 5 storey terraces.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Yes but England has over 10 times the population density of the US and a third more population density than even Japan.

    We could do with more emigrants and less immigrants ironically given our relatively small landmass and then we wouldn't have to build so small new houses to fit the population all in! The overcrowded London and the Home counties properties wouldn't be as expensive either
    Mathematically, and considering three issue of housing alone, that makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately it seems to be really difficult to combine a healthy economy with a shrinking population. A problem approaching for the world as a whole, of course
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Here's one near me

    https://www.keepmoat.com/osprey-view-worksop/hardwick

    Rooms sum through to 88.8 sq metres + halls, landings & stairs. 4 bed.
    And this is Workshop, rather than London (which is not dense by the standards of New York, Paris or Tokyo).

    Tiny British houses are a result of planning dysfunction. It’s what happens when you run a soviet-style housing market.
    London's problem is it doesn't build up enough like New York City or Tokyo.

    Outside London however England is far denser than the US or even Japan, especially in the South and only reducing immigration or encouraging emigration will resolve that
    You want to compare the South of England with the whole of Japan?
    Why not compare Greater Tokyo Area (population 38 million, density 2600 people/sq km) with the whole of the UK (density 281 people/ sq km)?
    England's population density is 434 people/sq km.

    Japan’s population density is only 338.2 people/sq km.

    Tokyo builds up more than London and uses more skyscrapers and towerblocks for apartments than our capital admittedly

    Unless you've done an about-turn on Scottish (etc) independence, if you want to talk about whole countries then Japan (despite being three quarters mountains) is more densely populated than the UK.
    Scotland doesn't have the housing costs problem England does. Properties in Scotland are cheaper than in England on average and far cheaper than in London and the South. Plenty of big houses in rural Scotland too
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/Aberdeenshire/detached.html
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Yes but England has over 10 times the population density of the US and a third more population density than even Japan.

    We could do with more emigrants and less immigrants ironically given our relatively small landmass and then we wouldn't have to build so small new houses to fit the population all in! The overcrowded London and the Home counties properties wouldn't be as expensive either
    Mathematically, and considering three issue of housing alone, that makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately it seems to be really difficult to combine a healthy economy with a shrinking population. A problem approaching for the world as a whole, of course
    I doubt there’s much relationship between raw population density and housing size at all.

    Or Scottish houses would be mahoosive.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited January 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Review of house prices across the U.K.:

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/average-house-prices-great-britain-jan23

    3 Bed end of Terrace - Scotland £140,000
    3 Bed Semi - North East £170,000
    2 bed flat - London, £660,000

    Odd this convention of analysing property via how many bedrooms. It's price per square foot that counts.
    Yep, head to Zillow (USA rightmove equivalent) and the square footage is neatly displayed in the sale.

    I assume UK sellers & estate agents don't want sq footage listed because so much of our property stock is incredulously tiny.
    The average new UK house is tiny now; smaller than Japan’s even, and less than half of the average US one.

    Another example of grotesque housing dysfunction.
    Yes but England has over 10 times the population density of the US and a third more population density than even Japan.

    We could do with more emigrants and less immigrants ironically given our relatively small landmass and then we wouldn't have to build so small new houses to fit the population all in! The overcrowded London and the Home counties properties wouldn't be as expensive either
    Mathematically, and considering three issue of housing alone, that makes a lot of sense, but unfortunately it seems to be really difficult to combine a healthy economy with a shrinking population. A problem approaching for the world as a whole, of course
    I doubt there’s much relationship between raw population density and housing size at all.

    Or Scottish houses would be mahoosive.
    You can get a big 4 bed detached house in Scotland for the price of a small 2 bed semi or terraced property in London and the Home counties
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    There are several metaphors here, I think ?

    At the end of last year, Sergei Ivanov, a local politician in the Russian city of Syzran, reportedly used a state grant worth the equivalent of around £25,000 to stage a reenactment of the WW2 Battle of Kursk in a university sports hall
    https://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1618192698959360001
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