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Sunnak’s approach to PMQs isn’t working – politicalbetting.com

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  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited January 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?

    What has accountancy got to do with it? Are Rosslyn-style lecterns cheaper?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Not to throw petrol on an already-smouldering fire, but isn't pudding a subset of the possible options to have for dessert?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    There’s something quite un-British about this customised lectern thing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    There’s something quite un-British about this customised lectern thing.

    Yes, well, don't ask the MoD to commission an adjustable one, to fit Prime Ministers of every height, if you want to start using it this decade.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    nico679 said:

    How ridiculous to start comparing bringing in a cake to the office to celebrate someone’s birthday to passive smoking . These health fascists need to STFU .

    Handily we solved most of that problem by hugely slashing the amount of people going to an office anyway.
  • Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    Not to throw petrol on an already-smouldering fire, but isn't pudding a subset of the possible options to have for dessert?

    Different meanings, I think. A pudding can be a subset of the set "pudding". But some puddings are not puddings. Steak and kidney pud is not pudding. And to take a Scots example, clootie dumpling is a pudding which can be a pudding the next day when fried in butter and served with custard, or an unpudding when fried with bacon, black pud, egg, sausage etc,. for breakfast.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    The word dessert is odiously non-U.
    Like the words “couch” and “toilet”, it belongs in the…er….toilet.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    nico679 said:

    How ridiculous to start comparing bringing in a cake to the office to celebrate someone’s birthday to passive smoking . These health fascists need to STFU .

    Handily we solved most of that problem by hugely slashing the amount of people going to an office anyway.
    Well, yes, but then, when I baked brownies to share with colleagues on my birthday I ended up having to take a photo of them so they could see what they looked like, and then eat them all myself.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
    Mm, an echo of Stevenson there?

    Under the wide and starry sky,
    Dig the grave and let me lie.
    Glad did I live and gladly die,
    And I laid me down with a will

    This be the verse you grave for me:
    Here he lies where he longed to be;
    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    nico679 said:

    How ridiculous to start comparing bringing in a cake to the office to celebrate someone’s birthday to passive smoking . These health fascists need to STFU .

    Handily we solved most of that problem by hugely slashing the amount of people going to an office anyway.
    Well, yes, but then, when I baked brownies to share with colleagues on my birthday I ended up having to take a photo of them so they could see what they looked like, and then eat them all myself.
    Known as having your cake and eating it, no?
  • There’s something quite un-British about this customised lectern thing.

    Anyone know when it started?

    OK- who can we blame for this?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Carnyx said:

    Not to throw petrol on an already-smouldering fire, but isn't pudding a subset of the possible options to have for dessert?

    Different meanings, I think. A pudding can be a subset of the set "pudding". But some puddings are not puddings. Steak and kidney pud is not pudding. And to take a Scots example, clootie dumpling is a pudding which can be a pudding the next day when fried in butter and served with custard, or an unpudding when fried with bacon, black pud, egg, sausage etc,. for breakfast.
    Well, that's what I mean. If I'm having something after the main course and it's a sweet pudding, then calling that course "pudding" makes sense, but only in that context. If I'm just having ice-cream or tiramisu or whatever then calling it pudding's a bit weird.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    nico679 said:

    How ridiculous to start comparing bringing in a cake to the office to celebrate someone’s birthday to passive smoking . These health fascists need to STFU .

    Handily we solved most of that problem by hugely slashing the amount of people going to an office anyway.
    Well, yes, but then, when I baked brownies to share with colleagues on my birthday I ended up having to take a photo of them so they could see what they looked like, and then eat them all myself.
    Wait till they realise WFH is the home office, and watch as they BAN CAKES IN YOUR OWN HOUSE. Probably.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    There’s something quite un-British about this customised lectern thing.

    Anyone know when it started?

    OK- who can we blame for this?
    LECTERNS-R-US.COM? Maybe.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056

    The word dessert is odiously non-U.
    Like the words “couch” and “toilet”, it belongs in the…er….toilet.

    Anyone who either cares or knows what is U or Non U, is pretty certainly non U.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    nico679 said:

    How ridiculous to start comparing bringing in a cake to the office to celebrate someone’s birthday to passive smoking . These health fascists need to STFU .

    Handily we solved most of that problem by hugely slashing the amount of people going to an office anyway.
    Well, yes, but then, when I baked brownies to share with colleagues on my birthday I ended up having to take a photo of them so they could see what they looked like, and then eat them all myself.
    Wait till they realise WFH is the home office, and watch as they BAN CAKES IN YOUR OWN HOUSE. Probably.
    Anyone who wants to ban cake in my house is welcome to do so, as long as they come round to enforce it in person and bring with them five rounds of cheese.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    ydoethur said:

    All this conversation about puddings, cakes, sweets, desserts and afters is merely showing people's obsession with sugary things. It's positively un-savoury.

    Now, now, don't be bitter about it.
  • Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    ydoethur said:

    All this conversation about puddings, cakes, sweets, desserts and afters is merely showing people's obsession with sugary things. It's positively un-savoury.

    Now, now, don't be bitter about it.
    Talking about final courses was bad enough, stop wining about drinks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    Not to throw petrol on an already-smouldering fire, but isn't pudding a subset of the possible options to have for dessert?

    Sort of, although I'd say 'pudding' these days has both the umbrella and specific meaning.

    "Should we have a pudding?"

    This can mean should we have a smaller sweeter dish now we've finished our main course?

    Or it can mean should we have a pudding FOR pudding? - as opposed to say just ice cream.

    That's how I see it anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Why was Starmer leaving below the line comments in the Plymouth Herald?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    ydoethur said:

    All this conversation about puddings, cakes, sweets, desserts and afters is merely showing people's obsession with sugary things. It's positively un-savoury.

    On the subject of puns, someone showed me this yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/pbackwriter/status/1602781202657775616

    Scottish gritter lorries with appropriate names.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?

    What has accountancy got to do with it? Are Rosslyn-style lecterns cheaper?
    The pillars in the Rosslyn Chapel image you showed are fluted, with a garland engraved over the top - they are nothing like the squares placed over each other that form Truss's lectern. I believe that some conspiracies are real, and that some powerful people have odd rituals, but I don't really buy this potboiler version that it all relates back to Rosslyn Chapel - the building looks heavily Victorian to me (I have no idea if it is or not); I am sure it is all deeply symbolical but it is very self-consciously so.

    I am suggesting that Truss had nothing at all to do with the lectern - she had just won a leadership election; I highly doubt that either she or Sunak spent any time during that contest reviewing carpentry. In any case these things, however ugly, take longer to knock up than a few days.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Why was Starmer leaving below the line comments in the Plymouth Herald?
    ...when he could be doing that here instead?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    If you wish to be identified as plebeian, you could refer to that particular course as "afters".
    Sweet.
    I have no objection to 'afters', whuch is at least enjoyably vague.
    A ''sweet" sounds a bit poncy to my ears.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Why was Starmer leaving below the line comments in the Plymouth Herald?
    ...when he could be doing that here instead?
    At least he'd be able to read some awesome puns on his name if he did.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    kinabalu said:

    Not to throw petrol on an already-smouldering fire, but isn't pudding a subset of the possible options to have for dessert?

    Sort of, although I'd say 'pudding' these days has both the umbrella and specific meaning.

    "Should we have a pudding?"

    This can mean should we have a smaller sweeter dish now we've finished our main course?

    Or it can mean should we have a pudding FOR pudding? - as opposed to say just ice cream.

    That's how I see it anyway.
    Ice cream? Or "pudding sauce" as it's known in some quarters.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited January 2023
    The Chinese for creme brulee (in Taiwan at least) is "pu ding". A legacy of Vietnam War R and R.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    There’s something quite un-British about this customised lectern thing.

    By happy coincidence Rishi and Liz can share one
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    Some people call it "sweet" which sounds silly to me.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Foxy said:

    The word dessert is odiously non-U.
    Like the words “couch” and “toilet”, it belongs in the…er….toilet.

    Anyone who either cares or knows what is U or Non U, is pretty certainly non U.
    Oh come on. These petty shibboleths are half the fun of living in England.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    Diversifying clientele.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043

    Foxy said:

    The word dessert is odiously non-U.
    Like the words “couch” and “toilet”, it belongs in the…er….toilet.

    Anyone who either cares or knows what is U or Non U, is pretty certainly non U.
    Oh come on. These petty shibboleths are half the fun of living in England.
    I also don't think it's true. I think it's quite an idealised version of posh people that they like nothing better than tucking into egg and chips with the working man. If PB is anything to go by, our posh people (I have no reason to doubt that they are what say they are) seem to remind us of the fact every two or three posts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    Surely it will be something like this -
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/economy-wooden-podium.html
    - with a Union flag hanging on the front of it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Or there's an option to add your custom logo - Union flag - to this design:
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/shelved-lectern.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    That would be nice wouldn't it?
  • DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    Surely it will be something like this -
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/economy-wooden-podium.html
    - with a Union flag hanging on the front of it.
    It will have to go some way to beat this in the "functional without a hint of luxury" stakes;


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    She'd do anything for a few upvotes I understand.
  • Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
    Mm, an echo of Stevenson there?

    Under the wide and starry sky,
    Dig the grave and let me lie.
    Glad did I live and gladly die,
    And I laid me down with a will

    This be the verse you grave for me:
    Here he lies where he longed to be;
    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
    Interesting.

    The Waste Land is packed with allusions and cross-references but I never heard of an echo of Stevenson before.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    Surely it will be something like this -
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/economy-wooden-podium.html
    - with a Union flag hanging on the front of it.
    It will have to go some way to beat this in the "functional without a hint of luxury" stakes;


    Good to know Brown wasn't hiding his legs, at least.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    Carnyx said:

    "Holyrood has made good on Theresa May’s pledge, as Conservative prime minister in 2017 [...]". Not a phrase one often sees.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/the-guardian-view-on-scotlands-gender-reform-bill-understand-more-condemn-less

    'People's sense of identity is not as fixed as it once was.'

    Firstly I would question this. Secondly didn't a clear sense of one's identity used to be regarded by psychologists as a core attribute of positive mental health?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    edited January 2023

    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    Surely it will be something like this -
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/economy-wooden-podium.html
    - with a Union flag hanging on the front of it.
    It will have to go some way to beat this in the "functional without a hint of luxury" stakes;


    Good to know Brown wasn't hiding his legs, at least.
    Except under trousers thankfully.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    Roger said:

    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.

    Really? Streeting seems a nasty piece of work to me. I wouldn't trust him an inch.
  • dixiedean said:

    The Chinese for creme brulee (in Taiwan at least) is "pu ding". A legacy of Vietnam War R and R.

    Yeah, like the French for 'cut the grass' is Moet de lorne'.

    Relic of Agincourt no doubt.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    @MarisaKabas: NEW: I just spoke by phone with Eula Rochard, a Brazilian drag queen who was friends with George Santos when he liv… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615808517176234020
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
  • He is right. 26 year olds dying of cancer die of cancer, not of the ambulance being late. And surely she could have conducted a simple home test on herself?

    Sunak n Starms are exactly equally inadequate.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Did he and is she?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    @rafaelbehr: End-of-day plug for this morning's column. On bridges burning and a PM who stands by, afraid to call it arson. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/brexit-eu-law-democracy-rishi-sunak
  • ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
    Not if the red flag is flying.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.

    Really? Streeting seems a nasty piece of work to me. I wouldn't trust him an inch.
    I predict Starmer will last a term as PM if he wins the next election, end up a UK Hollande and be replaced by Streeting as Macron replaced Hollande
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    edited January 2023
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    If a candidate claims to be an "Independent" "Local Resident" "Ratepayer" or similar, it is safest to assume that they are a closet Tory and vote against the bugger.

    In Loughton RA candidates range from borderline Marxists to hardline Tories so not really true
    Agree. Ratepayers were often more conservative than conservatives, but that often isn't true now. In Guildford the Indy's are a real mixture. They are anti the local Tories and went into alliance with the LDs, however this was all on local issues. Some are ex Tories and not necessarily on the left of the Tories, some ex LDs and some of no obvious persuasion.
    Same in next-door SW Surrey, where they're in coalition with LibDems, Labour and Green. Their leader, an upright no-nonsense oil executive, was told what to do by the Tories on a planning issue, rightly refused and ended up running a residents' party which swept the Tories out of nearly every ward in Farnham. Quite possibly he still votes Tory nationally, who knows.

    I chair the council's all-party Community Infrastructure Levy board, which is genuinely interesting - we allocate around £7m/year ton local projects, choosing between schools, health centre, roads, cyclepaths, and much more. We've always managed to reach agreement and it really doesn't have NIMBY overtones (perhaps because it's not about housing) - I find it really interesting and non-trivial. Party politics is pretty irrelevant for most of this.
  • DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
    Exactly. It had nothing to do with Truss, and if anyone should be criticised for this it's the Civil Service. As if she even had anything to do with the hideous thing.
    When she was asked what one she wanted, she said "The Rosslyn-style one", not "Use the same one as before, you f***ing idiot", but that was somebody else's fault and not hers?

    Or an accountant chose the Rosslyn-style one without asking her?
    So your theory is what, that Liz is some kind of lizard freemason? She was quite bad enough already.
    Since it is quite clearly the Cabinet Office that is responsible for this vulgar and spendthrift lectern policy, a more plausible theory is that the elite powers that be always intended the Truss era to be one of chaos and assorted failure for the UK, and that was reflected in their choice of a jenga lectern.
    By that theory, is Starmer's lectern going to be the blandest, most unmemorable but more-or-less functionally competent lectern no-one can ever remember?
    Surely it will be something like this -
    https://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/economy-wooden-podium.html
    - with a Union flag hanging on the front of it.
    It will have to go some way to beat this in the "functional without a hint of luxury" stakes;


    For a son of the manse that is sybaritic luxury!
    I mean, it's got wheels and everything.
  • ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
    Pennycomequick is an actual place in actual Plymouth. A fact best enjoyed on its own - constructing a pun around it would be too much Efford.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    He is right. 26 year olds dying of cancer die of cancer, not of the ambulance being late. And surely she could have conducted a simple home test on herself?

    Sunak n Starms are exactly equally inadequate.
    At least they're visibly inadequate, whereas poor old Ed Davey appears invisibly inadequate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    He is right. 26 year olds dying of cancer die of cancer, not of the ambulance being late. And surely she could have conducted a simple home test on herself?

    Sunak n Starms are exactly equally inadequate.
    Oh that's very harsh. On whom varies from day to day.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
    Pennycomequick is an actual place in actual Plymouth. A fact best enjoyed on its own - constructing a pun around it would be too much Efford.
    Please tell me there's a Johnnycomelately in Plymouth too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056

    He is right. 26 year olds dying of cancer die of cancer, not of the ambulance being late. And surely she could have conducted a simple home test on herself?

    Sunak n Starms are exactly equally inadequate.
    Cancer kills by different means, and it could be that she was bleeding heavily, or having sepsis as a result of weakened immune system and an ambulance arriving in the 18 minutes category 2 target could have stopped it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
    Pennycomequick is an actual place in actual Plymouth. A fact best enjoyed on its own - constructing a pun around it would be too much Efford.
    Please tell me there's a Johnnycomelately in Plymouth too.
    I'd imagine that Plymouth at one time had more prostitutes per capita than any town in the UK then or since.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Many scribblers have repeated the line that the reason Rishi Sunak didn't get "his own" lectern was that they take up to 3 weeks to make and there was insufficient time because he ascended to office so fast rather than after a lengthy leadership election.

    Surely some mistake?

    Or is a new one that takes so long to make only ordered for the candidate already known in advance to be the future winner?

    Truss was the same PM who constantly wore a visible talisman around her neck.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
    Lucilla Teatime is a fictional detective, IIRC admired by Iain Sinclair.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
    Mm, an echo of Stevenson there?

    Under the wide and starry sky,
    Dig the grave and let me lie.
    Glad did I live and gladly die,
    And I laid me down with a will

    This be the verse you grave for me:
    Here he lies where he longed to be;
    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
    Eliot was indeed quite the magpie.
    The ChatGPT of his day.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    The midday meal is lunch

    The evening meal is tea

    Dinner is the opening bar of Batman...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Vigilant as always, a spokesman for the prime minister has weighed in on the public debate about whether people should take cakes into work or not.

    "As to the government's official position, the prime minister's official spokesman said Rishi Sunak believed "personal choice should be baked into our approach".
    [blah]
    Mr Sunak's spokesman added that the prime minister was "very partial to a piece of cake" and most enjoyed carrot and red velvet cake."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64315384

    If Mr Sunak enjoys a piece of cake, I for one will vote to keep him in Downing Street. Hurrah!

    Sounds a fairly unpleasant American creation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_velvet_cake

    On a culinary note, Lindsay Hoyle and chocolate teapot are trending on Twitter.
    I must admit I didn't bother to look for further details about the prime minister's favourite cake, beyond mentally noting that it sounded comfortably within the Western tradition of desserts.
    In the santanic mills of western Pennsylvania back in the day, the Slavs & Italians who dominated the workforce at turn of 19th>20th-cen., called the English/Scots-Irish "native stock" workers and foremen "cake-eaters" because their wives would typically include a piece of cake in their lunch-boxes. Rich and rare behavior from perspective of eastern & southern European recent immigrants.

    My take is, Rishi Sunak is placing himself comfortably within the British tradition of desserts?

    With red velvet carrot cake being a modernizing twist?

    BTW, intensive research (two minutes googling) revels that the KEY difference between red velvet versus devils food cakes, is . . . wait for it . . . cocoa versus chocolate.
    There is a class (and consequently VAT) consequence to this.

    Cakes are considered a necessary foodstuff, as part of a genteel afternoon tea, and are therefore exempt from VAT. Chocolate-covered biscuits are a wanton luxury, indulged in by the working class, and so consequently face the full rate of VAT at 20% to ensure that the workers are dissuaded from falling prey to their gluttonous instincts.
    TBF many cakes are desserts and vv - pineapple upside down cake, Bakewell tart, etc. The demartcation might be whether one can have them with custards.

    Though we often have shortbread with our rhubarb and cream for afters - yet that remains a biscuit.
    'Dessert' is one of my most disliked words (along with 'horrid' and 'movie'). It always sounds a


    bit Hyacinth Bucket to me. I think it's because the stress is on the second syllable. Never trust a two-syllable word with the stress on the second syllable. I use 'pudding'.
    Interestingly, an Irish friend of mine finds it hilarious that I use the word 'pudding', thinking it tremendously posh, and finds 'dessert' very much the everyman option.
    Dessert is decidedly non-U.

    It’s pudding.
    We always called it 'afters'.
    That's odd, Richard. So did we. I always thought it was a bit of an East End thing but I don't believe you are of that tribe. I'm intrigued.

    Btw, we also called the midday meal dinner. Tea was the meal you had when you came home from work in the evening. This usage is reflected in the Waste Land, no less, so maybe it was more common once:

    'At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives
    Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea,
    The typist home at teatime,....'
    Mm, an echo of Stevenson there?

    Under the wide and starry sky,
    Dig the grave and let me lie.
    Glad did I live and gladly die,
    And I laid me down with a will

    This be the verse you grave for me:
    Here he lies where he longed to be;
    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
    Interesting.

    The Waste Land is packed with allusions and cross-references but I never heard of an echo of Stevenson before.
    Lots of them in Matthew Hollis's new book on the Waste Land.

    'This be the verse' of course gives the title to Larkin's mum and dad poem. And it's quoted in Graham Greene's 'The power and the glory' (now there's a great book).

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    @tnewtondunn: RT @FirstEdition: Thursday's Guardian - Nurses and ambulance staff to stage unprecedented joint strike.

    @guardian |… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615819574665961479
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.

    Really? Streeting seems a nasty piece of work to me. I wouldn't trust him an inch.
    What makes you think that of Streeting?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.



    Why was Starmer leaving below the line comments in the Plymouth Herald?
    A vendetta against the poor guy, obviously.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    DJ41 said:

    Many scribblers have repeated the line that the reason Rishi Sunak didn't get "his own" lectern was that they take up to 3 weeks to make and there was insufficient time because he ascended to office so fast rather than after a lengthy leadership election.

    Surely some mistake?

    Or is a new one that takes so long to make only ordered for the candidate already known in advance to be the future winner?

    Truss was the same PM who constantly wore a visible talisman around her neck.

    It could be that Sunak was considered the inevitable winner, having manipulated the process as he and his team did. So that was always his lectern.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    You never heard of the Plymouth Hoe?
    Is that what you get when the Penny drops?
    Pennycomequick is an actual place in actual Plymouth. A fact best enjoyed on its own - constructing a pun around it would be too much Efford.
    Please tell me there's a Johnnycomelately in Plymouth too.
    I'd imagine that Plymouth at one time had more prostitutes per capita than any town in the UK then or since.
    Devonport and Stonehouse, rather? I wonder. Plymouth, Portsmouth and Chatham all had major dockyards which diluted, so to speak, the pure servicemen - though they all had various Marines and/or Army barracks as well. Though Aldershot wasn't really a thing till the mid-C19. And of course the attempts to root our prostitutes in the late C19 boosted the 'official' figures in the naval and army base towns.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited January 2023

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.

    Really? Streeting seems a nasty piece of work to me. I wouldn't trust him an inch.
    What makes you think that of Streeting?
    I knew him personally for some years; ‘nasty piece of work’ seems over the top, but he is a career politician through and through, and quite willing to break promises and pledges he’s made, and to make promises he knows he probably can’t keep, if it suits him. He’s capable, but has been rapidly promoted, and likely still on the learning curve. Moderate, but not liberal, and not popular with the left, at all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    IanB2 said:

    Sadiq Khan to permanently end free morning peak travel for pensioners - Freedom Pass restrictions brought in on short-term basis as money-saving step during pandemic to be made permanent

    Good they don't deserve a handout I don't get one

    Odd, because the cost of the scheme falls to the Boroughs, yet he thinks he can nab the saving?
    Isn't the 60+ pass paid out of the TFL budget, local authority funding kicks in at the retirement age. If anything it's time to just get rid of the 60+ pass entirely and only have the freedom pass from retirement age. It's a luxury London can no longer afford and people aged 60-66 are of working age, they can pay for their own travel.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sadiq Khan to permanently end free morning peak travel for pensioners - Freedom Pass restrictions brought in on short-term basis as money-saving step during pandemic to be made permanent

    Good they don't deserve a handout I don't get one

    Odd, because the cost of the scheme falls to the Boroughs, yet he thinks he can nab the saving?
    Isn't the 60+ pass paid out of the TFL budget, local authority funding kicks in at the retirement age. If anything it's time to just get rid of the 60+ pass entirely and only have the freedom pass from retirement age. It's a luxury London can no longer afford and people aged 60-66 are of working age, they can pay for their own travel.
    I now have a railcard that entitles me to roughly a1/3rd off fares which would make the railways attractive if their service was not so awful. Why people like me, 6 years at least from retirement and in full time employment need a railcard is frankly beyond me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    @AllieHBNews: Thursday’s CITY A.M.- “Let Them Eat Cake” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1615823512752558080/photo/1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting discussion about the NHS on Ch4. Wes Streeting a revelation. Surely a potential Labour leader? The Tories were represented by Helen Whately (?). She seemed pleasant enough but you were left asking yourself how someone with those limitations could become an MP let alone a minister.

    Really? Streeting seems a nasty piece of work to me. I wouldn't trust him an inch.
    What makes you think that of Streeting?
    He is two faced, he complains that the Tories won't negotiate over nurses pay, yet won't support them getting more pay. He is a snake.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    Somewhat disturbing.

    Boston Dynamics shows of their robots latest skills
    https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1615738852731392000
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Nigelb said:

    Somewhat disturbing.

    Boston Dynamics shows of their robots latest skills
    https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1615738852731392000

    Put an LLM into it and you're looking at the future. Or Westworld.

    One of the things that's been bugging me a lot is, are humans really much more than LLMs themselves? Is consciousness just something you develop through language skills and is language a key component of memory? Why do we remember so little of our early lives, before we've formed language skills?

    ChatGPT remembers the last 14 or so interactions you've had with it, it effectively has the memory of a goldfish. Would what evolves out of an LLM with a long term memory and a body with sensory inputs (like the robot in the video) really differ from a human being in any discernible way?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    The Santos stories keep on coming.

    “Why did he say he had two names then?”
    “Well, he used zebrosky for his gofundme. He would say oh, well the Jews will give more if you're a Jew. So that is the name he used for his gofundmes”

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1615526197126959105
  • Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    "Dear Sir, I wish to express my displeasure at the failure of local government to deal with debasement of the English language, by official usage of "dessert" which is both low-class and of foreign origin.

    "I would also like to let your more astute readers know, that if they are looking for a very good time, please contact me at Box 69, Lower Stupping PO, Middlesex."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741

    Poor Johnny is forever demanding apologies and retractions.




    Seems a strange place to be a prostitute.
    "Dear Sir, I wish to express my displeasure at the failure of local government to deal with debasement of the English language, by official usage of "dessert" which is both low-class and of foreign origin.

    "I would also like to let your more astute readers know, that if they are looking for a very good time, please contact me at Box 69, Lower Stupping PO, Middlesex."
    I thought you lived in Seattle?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741
    This thread has

    finished pudding

This discussion has been closed.