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Sunnak’s approach to PMQs isn’t working – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,818
edited January 2023 in General
Sunnak’s approach to PMQs isn’t working – politicalbetting.com

Sunak – a PM with a 70+ seat majority, from a party that has been in charge for thirteen years – just blamed the Leader of the Opposition for "depriving people of urgent care" by refusing to support gov't measures that run roughshod over working people's rights. Wow. ~AA #PMQs pic.twitter.com/47F6INcL15

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,268
    I see the tradition of starting a new thread because I make a post on the old one continues!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    New Thread!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    On topic, Starmer really gives Sunak a proper going over there.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,046
    edited January 2023
    These former public schoolboys! Tssk!
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,268

    On topic, Starmer really gives Sunak a proper going over there.

    The problem at PMQs is ultimately a strategic one for the Tories.

    What can they possibly go after, consistently, across all issues, that will undermine Labour and make Tory abstainers turn out 1992 style.

    I predict that "Why don't Labour support our (widely regarded as) tired, ill-considered legislation" is not going to be the strategic underpinning of a polling recovery.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    Two questions arise.

    Are Tory backbenchers bothered?

    Is this a symptom of an exhausted government, sliding to an inevitable crushing defeat, or an example of something that plays badly in the Commons, but might gain some traction in an election campaign?

    I'd say, not bothered and exhausted, which implies Sunak will lead the Tories to a heavy general election defeat, but I'd be interested in any arguments to the contrary.
  • Options

    Two questions arise.

    Are Tory backbenchers bothered?

    Is this a symptom of an exhausted government, sliding to an inevitable crushing defeat, or an example of something that plays badly in the Commons, but might gain some traction in an election campaign?

    I'd say, not bothered and exhausted, which implies Sunak will lead the Tories to a heavy general election defeat, but I'd be interested in any arguments to the contrary.

    The Starmer in Lynch's pocket poster, subject of last header but one, had the stench of a dying tory party like nothing else.
  • Options
    Though having now listened to SKS questions I am not seeing Sunak being monstered there. And RIP Stephanie who died at 26 of cancer, but a bit off point surely? It's heart attacks where a prompt ambulance can ensure you a couple more decades vs immediate death. Cancer is gonna get you if that's the plan.
  • Options
    Flynn's head polishes up nicely. Gotta wear shades.
  • Options
    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    Three tweets from opponents of the government do not necessarily a case make. I thought Starmer started off well but got bogged down - and the Tory back benches (the audience that ultimately matters) seemed very happy with the encounter.

    I think this is a fair analysis:

    The Prime Minister’s political gamble right now is that people want a competent manager, not another Boris Johnson or Liz Truss. The risk with this strategy is that the country is in chaos, and anyone presiding over that is unlikely to win any “best boss of the year awards”.

    All Starmer has to do then is keep telling the story of a Britain unravelling in a way which grabs attention, and we all know the public’s heart is through the health service.


    https://www.cityam.com/pmqs-keir-starmer-goes-for-our-hearts-through-the-nhs/
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,785
    FPT:

    LostPassword said:
    » show previous quotes
    We're four weeks from the winter solstice, so about 15% of the year has shorter days and a lower noon sun than today.

    It's certainly a contribution that's not to be sniffed at, particularly once the grid has more storage to time-shift it to the early evening peak in demand.
    Solar is so dirt cheap now too - cheaper watt for watt than wind even in the UK I think - that it really ought to be getting rolled out on a decentralised basis everywhere possible. One area where government subsidy could pay for itself given the cost of the energy price guarantee.

    Particularly useful in summer when the wind isn't blowing, and as you say doubly useful with increasing EV usage and battery storage.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,464
    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,210

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
  • Options

    Three tweets from opponents of the government do not necessarily a case make. I thought Starmer started off well but got bogged down - and the Tory back benches (the audience that ultimately matters) seemed very happy with the encounter.

    I think this is a fair analysis:

    The Prime Minister’s political gamble right now is that people want a competent manager, not another Boris Johnson or Liz Truss. The risk with this strategy is that the country is in chaos, and anyone presiding over that is unlikely to win any “best boss of the year awards”.

    All Starmer has to do then is keep telling the story of a Britain unravelling in a way which grabs attention, and we all know the public’s heart is through the health service.


    https://www.cityam.com/pmqs-keir-starmer-goes-for-our-hearts-through-the-nhs/

    I'm sure the Tory backbenchers are happy! Here is the problem - their view continues to narrow so that from their tight perspective they believe they are right and their arguments are resonating. But the field of view outside their perspective widens and the majority of people there increasingly detest what the Tories are doing and saying.

    None of it stands up to sanity or reasoning. The minimum service requirement that Sunak was banging the drum for does nothing to address the outrageous wait times for the vast majority of days when there isn't a strike.

    This denial of people's lived experience will absolutely destroy them. Especially as so many of those Tory backbenchers - especially the 2019 intake - are fucking morons. You want to antagonise your electorate? Ignore them, belittle them, patronise them.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    And the Tories have been in power for 13 years. Good enough for Labour to fix this country and the Tories going back to being normal and moderate.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,065
    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    A Jenga-style podium used by Liz Truss in her short-lived stint as prime minister cost taxpayers £4,175, it has emerged.

    The lectern was compared to a Jenga tower, from the board game that results in total collapse, as it featured pieces of wood that resembled Jenga blocks ready to topple. It was specially made for the former prime minister who lasted 45 days in No 10.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/liz-truss-jenga-style-podium-cost-taxpayers-4175

    About £93/day….

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Yes, I'm rather hoping he's Major not Brown.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    Really? In what sense?
  • Options
    mwadams said:

    I see the tradition of starting a new thread because I make a post on the old one continues!

    Gave you a pity like.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,268

    mwadams said:

    I see the tradition of starting a new thread because I make a post on the old one continues!

    Gave you a pity like.
    Pity and the magic words "by default" are the backbone of my existence.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,935
    I watched PMQs - an increasingly lonely activity, it would appear. Anyway, here it is in a nutshell:

    Starmer: Ambulance waiting times are awful. What are you going to do about it?

    Sunak: We're fixing it, but it's all your fault anyway because you won't support our minimum service level legislation and you're in the pocket of your union paymasters.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    He's more competent than Johnson or Truss, but that says more about them than him.

    But he's fundamentally not very good at talking persuasively; has he ever really had to before?

    And the whole government seems to be cutting itself off from information about the outside world. The vibe is planning imaginary armies of tax cuts to win on 2024, which is why they can't pay people more now. Which would be fine if things were rolling along nicely of their own accord, which they aren't.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,785
    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    Labour could do worse for attack lines than talking about the electorate being on a waiting list for the government to do anything meaningful to improve their lives. The symptoms keep worsening, and the waiting list just gets longer.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,210
    edited January 2023
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Yes, I'm rather hoping he's Major not Brown.
    Brown got a hung parliament on just 29% of the vote in 2010, Major suffered a landslide defeat in 1997 on 30% of the vote.

    Bit unfair on Major (albeit most Scottish seats were Labour still in 1997 and 2010)
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,785

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    He's more competent than Johnson or Truss, but that says more about them than him.

    But he's fundamentally not very good at talking persuasively; has he ever really had to before?

    And the whole government seems to be cutting itself off from information about the outside world. The vibe is planning imaginary armies of tax cuts to win on 2024, which is why they can't pay people more now. Which would be fine if things were rolling along nicely of their own accord, which they aren't.
    I mean, he didn't even manage to persuade his own party last summer that Liz Truss's tax plans didn't add up.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,268

    Three tweets from opponents of the government do not necessarily a case make. I thought Starmer started off well but got bogged down - and the Tory back benches (the audience that ultimately matters) seemed very happy with the encounter.

    I think this is a fair analysis:

    The Prime Minister’s political gamble right now is that people want a competent manager, not another Boris Johnson or Liz Truss. The risk with this strategy is that the country is in chaos, and anyone presiding over that is unlikely to win any “best boss of the year awards”.

    All Starmer has to do then is keep telling the story of a Britain unravelling in a way which grabs attention, and we all know the public’s heart is through the health service.


    https://www.cityam.com/pmqs-keir-starmer-goes-for-our-hearts-through-the-nhs/

    I think that is pretty much bang on. The big political inflection point always comes when the Government has to *do something* to stay in power, rather than sitting out the Opposition's attempts to dislodge them.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    Yep. Focus and priorities. Unfortunately I think they are to shore up the core vote to minimize the GE defeat rather than to solve problems.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,935
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    Labour could do worse for attack lines than talking about the electorate being on a waiting list for the government to do anything meaningful to improve their lives. The symptoms keep worsening, and the waiting list just gets longer.
    Fed up with waiting? Vote Labour!
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Yes, I'm rather hoping he's Major not Brown.
    Brown got a hung parliament on just 29% of the vote in 2010, Major suffered a landslide defeat in 1997 on 30% of the vote.

    Bit unfair on Major (albeit most Scottish seats were Labour still in 1997 and 2010)
    Cameron 2010 36.1%
    Blair 1997 43.2%

    Pretty clear difference.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Yes, I'm rather hoping he's Major not Brown.
    Brown got a hung parliament on just 29% of the vote in 2010, Major suffered a landslide defeat in 1997 on 30% of the vote.

    Bit unfair on Major (albeit most Scottish seats were Labour still in 1997 and 2010)
    The loveable quirkiness of FPTP.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Yes, I'm rather hoping he's Major not Brown.
    Brown got a hung parliament on just 29% of the vote in 2010, Major suffered a landslide defeat in 1997 on 30% of the vote.

    Bit unfair on Major (albeit most Scottish seats were Labour still in 1997 and 2010)
    Cameron 2010 36.1%
    Blair 1997 43.2%

    Pretty clear difference.
    Cameron 2010 only received 1.1 million more votes than Major 1997.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited January 2023

    A Jenga-style podium used by Liz Truss in her short-lived stint as prime minister cost taxpayers £4,175, it has emerged.

    The lectern was compared to a Jenga tower, from the board game that results in total collapse, as it featured pieces of wood that resembled Jenga blocks ready to topple. It was specially made for the former prime minister who lasted 45 days in No 10.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/liz-truss-jenga-style-podium-cost-taxpayers-4175

    About £93/day….

    Haven't any journalists sussed what that lectern was all about yet?

    Aletha Adu at the Guardian copied the story from John Stevens at the Mirror.

    The lectern was of the same style, although supposedly it wasn't the same actual lectern, as the one that was used at the Tory leadership announcement.

    Liz Truss must really have liked that unusual style of lectern.

    But I am sceptical about them being two different lecterns. Two questions: 1. where is the first one? 2. Did anyone spot any differences between them?

    Angela Rayner, who uses w********t for good purposes (bless her), may know more than she lets on when she says "(Liz Truss's) choice of a Jenga design should have been a warning sign of the chaos she was about to unleash."

    It was, Angela. I read the sign at the time.

    The word "Jenga" comes from Swahili, but Jenga is a complete red herring.

    Think of something closer to home:

    image
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,464
    Top Michigan Republicans move to draft DeSantis for 2024
    A quarter of the Republicans in the Michigan state House signed a letter to Ron DeSantis asking him to run for president.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/18/michigan-republicans-draft-desantis-2024-00078244
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,464
    What is this interest in the Truss lecturn ?
    It is as nothing, against the enduring magnificence of the legendary Edstone.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    What is best for our children is:
    That teachers are on as low a wage as possible
    That non-teaching staff costs are removed as much as possible
    That school building maintenance be cut if its public sector or contracted out
    That as many schools as possible get farmed out to trusts and free school organisations where education money can be spent properly on CEO salaries
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,888

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Sunak's strategy in full is:
    1. Use inflation to cut public sector pay and increase taxation.
    2. Use money thereby raised to reduce the deficit, thereby avoiding a run on the pound, and to fund pre-election tax cuts.
    3. Blame Labour.

    If he increases public sector pay then that's two-thirds of his strategy wrecked. He will resist a u-turn for as long as possible.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    As well as being generally crap at PMQs, he also needs a better answer on Zahawi
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    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    DJ41 said:

    A Jenga-style podium used by Liz Truss in her short-lived stint as prime minister cost taxpayers £4,175, it has emerged.

    The lectern was compared to a Jenga tower, from the board game that results in total collapse, as it featured pieces of wood that resembled Jenga blocks ready to topple. It was specially made for the former prime minister who lasted 45 days in No 10.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/liz-truss-jenga-style-podium-cost-taxpayers-4175

    About £93/day….

    Haven't any journalists sussed what that lectern was all about yet?

    Aletha Adu at the Guardian copied the story from John Stevens at the Mirror.

    The lectern was of the same style, although supposedly it wasn't the same actual lectern, as the one that was used at the Tory leadership announcement.

    Liz Truss must really have liked that unusual style of lectern.

    But I am sceptical about them being two different lecterns. Two questions: 1. where is the first one? 2. Did anyone spot any differences between them?

    Angela Rayner, who uses w********t for good purposes (bless her), may know more than she lets on when she says "(Liz Truss's) choice of a Jenga design should have been a warning sign of the chaos she was about to unleash."

    It was, Angela. I read the sign at the time.

    The word "Jenga" comes from Swahili, but Jenga is a complete red herring.

    Think of something closer to home:

    image
    The Torygraph has also published material about the Truss lectern:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/25/liz-truss-downing-street-lectern-retired/

    "Conservative prime ministers are each allowed to help design the lecterns for their time in office. They are custom-built for Conservative Campaign Headquarters (CCHQ), which usually orders two and loans one to Downing Street."

    "Theresa May's lectern was designed by Fiona Hill, her joint chief of staff, and was designed to look 'feminine', according to a source."

    "David Cameron's was designed by Baroness Sugg, his head of operations, and was designed to look 'statesmanlike,' while Mr Johnson's blockier design was intended to withstand him thumping it as he delivered speeches."

    Truss...oh she just likes twisty pillars... Never heard of Rosslyn...

    Was it a loan or a duplicate? If it was a duplicate, why break with the tradition of loaning?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Sunak's strategy in full is:
    1. Use inflation to cut public sector pay and increase taxation.
    2. Use money thereby raised to reduce the deficit, thereby avoiding a run on the pound, and to fund pre-election tax cuts.
    3. Blame Labour.

    If he increases public sector pay then that's two-thirds of his strategy wrecked. He will resist a u-turn for as long as possible.
    I'm sure that's right, but he seems completely unaware of how bad the situation is with respect to public services now. Utterly out of touch.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
    It's not as if the government doesn't like borrowing money.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,888
    DJ41 said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
    It's not as if the government doesn't like borrowing money.
    I hear you; but right this minute it is arguably borrowed out. I think that is a reasonable position to take (there's no more money left, certainly that we can borrow).

    I haven't checked but did the Conservative Party make any spending pledges about education in their manifesto, and have they fulfilled them if they did.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,206
    edited January 2023
    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Very much feeling like Brown 2009-2010 for Sunak right now

    That Brown got a hung parliament, Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 and beat him outright
    Who became PM?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,919

    I watched PMQs - an increasingly lonely activity, it would appear. Anyway, here it is in a nutshell:

    Starmer: Ambulance waiting times are awful. What are you going to do about it?

    Sunak: We're fixing it, but it's all your fault anyway because you won't support our minimum service level legislation and you're in the pocket of your union paymasters.

    taking that to it's logical conclusion - who is going to force the last ambulance paramedic / nurse to work 24/7 until their keel over and die on the job.
  • Options

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    Grey hair-dye = John Major!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    Shell suit? Baggy jeans, t shirt and bucket hat? That's the kind of thing people wear to 90s nights I've been to recently.
  • Options

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    I remember at one point doing triple denim if that helps...
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,888

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    Is "bongos bingo" appropriate?
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,371
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Sunak's strategy in full is:
    1. Use inflation to cut public sector pay and increase taxation.
    2. Use money thereby raised to reduce the deficit, thereby avoiding a run on the pound, and to fund pre-election tax cuts.
    3. Blame Labour.

    If he increases public sector pay then that's two-thirds of his strategy wrecked. He will resist a u-turn for as long as possible.
    I'm sure that's right, but he seems completely unaware of how bad the situation is with respect to public services now. Utterly out of touch.
    I don't know about that. If he is aware of how bad the situation is then he can't admit to it, because he'd then have to do something about it.

    He's made his call on the basis of the politician's hierarchy of needs - he wants to be re-elected, so he needs pre-election tax cuts.

    If he's lucky next winter won't be as bad for the NHS, as the post-Covid effects work their way through the system. And Starmer will self destruct somehow.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,221
    Like PBers generally I'm a bit of a politics person, but except when something dramatic is happening it would never ever cross my mind to watch or pay any attention to PMQs.

    That goes, only more so, for nearly everyone. So it makes little or no difference.

    Having said that, in the real world Sunak will do as a PM for now who isn't Boris, Truss, Jezza, Attila the Hun, Baker, JRM or Laura Pidcock and who will lose the next election with a degree of basic decency, handing over to the nearest thing available to the One Nation Tories, ie SKS, preferably in a LD coalition.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Sunak's strategy in full is:
    1. Use inflation to cut public sector pay and increase taxation.
    2. Use money thereby raised to reduce the deficit, thereby avoiding a run on the pound, and to fund pre-election tax cuts.
    3. Blame Labour.

    If he increases public sector pay then that's two-thirds of his strategy wrecked. He will resist a u-turn for as long as possible.
    I'm sure that's right, but he seems completely unaware of how bad the situation is with respect to public services now. Utterly out of touch.
    I don't know about that. If he is aware of how bad the situation is then he can't admit to it, because he'd then have to do something about it.

    He's made his call on the basis of the politician's hierarchy of needs - he wants to be re-elected, so he needs pre-election tax cuts.

    If he's lucky next winter won't be as bad for the NHS, as the post-Covid effects work their way through the system. And Starmer will self destruct somehow.
    And who knows, the horse might learn to talk.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,418

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Sunak's strategy in full is:
    1. Use inflation to cut public sector pay and increase taxation.
    2. Use money thereby raised to reduce the deficit, thereby avoiding a run on the pound, and to fund pre-election tax cuts.
    3. Blame Labour.

    If he increases public sector pay then that's two-thirds of his strategy wrecked. He will resist a u-turn for as long as possible.
    I'm sure that's right, but he seems completely unaware of how bad the situation is with respect to public services now. Utterly out of touch.
    Why should that be, I wonder? Surely he has to use public services, just like everybody else.

    Oh, wait ...
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    edited January 2023
    @DanNeidle: Here's what happened when @alexsobel raised Zahawi's mysterious £m tax payment at PMQs: https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1615693687261888512/photo/1
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    @TheNewsAgents: Former Conservative leader William Hague lays the collapse of Britishvolt at Brexit’s door while talking with… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615713117069008897
  • Options

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    You could wear blackface, as Trudeau was in the 90s.

    Or decline an invitation which sounds so lame that on balance I would refuse it in favour of a Burns Night.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    edited January 2023
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    If four countries with Leopards each match the UK's tank contribution (say, Poland, Finland, Germany and Netherlands) and the French also do so for their Leclercs, and the Americans match the collective European contribution with Abrams, then you'd have 168 Western tanks (of four different types) being sent to Ukraine, more than half of the 300 Ukraine have asked for.

    I think this is the general choreography being aimed at this week. Told to expect another step forward today. I guess we'll see if they can make it happen.
  • Options

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    Go as Jimmy Savile, absolute 90s legend, he received his knighthood in the 90s.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,919
    Scott_xP said:

    @DanNeidle: Here's what happened when @alexsobel raised Zahawi's mysterious £m tax payment at PMQs: https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1615693687261888512/photo/1

    I saw a lot of chatter yesterday between the tax advisors I follow that went - it's almost like HMRC have a separate priority lists for MPs because there so is zero chance this would have been solved in 10 years let alone 3 months if you were a member of the general public.

    2 tax advisors then highlighted other examples where such a priority system (potentially with very light doublechecking of calculations) seemed to exist.
  • Options
    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
    Which is because any tax increases that actually increase government spending in a realistic way involve raising taxes on lots of people.

    People become quite upset to discover they are rich barstewards.

    I remember when I pointed out to some young IT developers that being on 50K a year in FinTech made The Man they were all talking about.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,464

    Going to a 90s themed bongos bingo next week. Need an outfit.

    Does anyone have any ideas of a classic male 90s number?

    I was going to wear a gimp mask and go as a 90s tory but i’ve been told that it isn’t appropriate x

    Men in Black suit and shades ?
    Matrix trench coat ?
    Scream mask ?

    Or if you have the six pack, dress for Fight Club.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    If four countries with Leopards each match the UK's tank contribution (say, Poland, Finland, Germany and Netherlands) and the French also do so for their Leclercs, and the Americans match the collective European contribution with Abrams, then you'd have 168 Western tanks (of four different types) being sent to Ukraine, more than half of the 300 Ukraine have asked for.

    I think this is the general choreography being aimed at this week. Told to expect another step forward today. I guess we'll see if they can make it happen.
    Note that no formal request for handing x tanks from country y to Ukraine has been made. Yet.

    So the German government can say that no such request has been made.

    The formal request will only occur when the people asking know that it will be granted. Asking and then being actually told no would be embarrassing for the German government, the government in question and Ukraine.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,018
    edited January 2023

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
    Which is because any tax increases that actually increase government spending in a realistic way involve raising taxes on lots of people.

    People become quite upset to discover they are rich barstewards.

    I remember when I pointed out to some young IT developers that being on 50K a year in FinTech made The Man they were all talking about.
    Agree absolutely. I want the government to put up taxes for everybody, but especially for people like me, to fund a properly functioning public realm. The electorate needs to ditch the something for nothing mindset, or simply accept that if they have a heart attack they will be dead before they get to hospital. The choice is theirs.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DanNeidle: Here's what happened when @alexsobel raised Zahawi's mysterious £m tax payment at PMQs: https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1615693687261888512/photo/1

    I saw a lot of chatter yesterday between the tax advisors I follow that went - it's almost like HMRC have a separate priority lists for MPs because there so is zero chance this would have been solved in 10 years let alone 3 months if you were a member of the general public.

    2 tax advisors then highlighted other examples where such a priority system (potentially with very light doublechecking of calculations) seemed to exist.
    HMC do, IIRC, have a special unit for "sensitive" cases - high net worth, politics etc.
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,047
    edited January 2023

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    If four countries with Leopards each match the UK's tank contribution (say, Poland, Finland, Germany and Netherlands) and the French also do so for their Leclercs, and the Americans match the collective European contribution with Abrams, then you'd have 168 Western tanks (of four different types) being sent to Ukraine, more than half of the 300 Ukraine have asked for.

    I think this is the general choreography being aimed at this week. Told to expect another step forward today. I guess we'll see if they can make it happen.
    Looking at the German news, there seems to be almost universal political agreement that Germany should send Leopard 2 tanks as soon as possible and should most definitely not stand in the way of other countries who wish to do so. Scholz cuts rather a lonely figure in his apparent determination not to be rushed into a decision, so much so that you do have to wonder if things are being choreographed elsewhere.

    P.S. Yes, Scholz is speaking at Davos this afternoon, and it's expected that he'll say something about Leopard 2 deliveries.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,210
    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    The Tories only got 28% last time the council seats up in May were up anyway and lost over 1000 council seats.

    I therefore doubt the swing will be that bad, albeit a few more seats lost to Labour maybe
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,784
    edited January 2023
    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,371

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    If four countries with Leopards each match the UK's tank contribution (say, Poland, Finland, Germany and Netherlands) and the French also do so for their Leclercs, and the Americans match the collective European contribution with Abrams, then you'd have 168 Western tanks (of four different types) being sent to Ukraine, more than half of the 300 Ukraine have asked for.

    I think this is the general choreography being aimed at this week. Told to expect another step forward today. I guess we'll see if they can make it happen.
    The French have offered Leclercs to replace other countries' Leopards if sent to Ukraine. Don't think they'll be sending Leclercs to Ukraine.

    I assume the US has indicated, for whatever reasons, that they won't be sending Abrams, else we'd already have heard about it, but have given the green light to European allies to send their tanks. Greece and Spain are other countries with quite a few Leopards, Norway Denmark and Sweden also have some. As does Canada apparently.

    But I do think at least 100 tanks will be promised by the end of the week.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.

    Replaced by whom?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,888

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Sunak’s alleged USP is that he is competent. That means he has to solve problems. At the moment he’s not doing that. They need to do a deal with the nurses today. Last week would’ve been better.
    He needs to sort out a deal with the teachers. Less critical but still urgent.
    Ideally, he would do a deal with the train staff too. Less urgent, these people provide a worse service than Ukraine even when they are not on strike. If the railways close down because people learn to live without them too bad.
    The intray is piling up Gordon Brown style. Sunak needs to start emptying it.

    We got a letter from the school today about the impending strike action. We already know that teachers aren't getting paid enough because the school can't hire them or hold onto them. Just pay them more and put up our taxes to pay for it. Why can't the government just get on with it? They don't seem to care at all.
    Because the country consistently votes for parties who tell them they won't put up taxes.

    It really is not very complicated.

    See: NHS
    Which is because any tax increases that actually increase government spending in a realistic way involve raising taxes on lots of people.

    People become quite upset to discover they are rich barstewards.

    I remember when I pointed out to some young IT developers that being on 50K a year in FinTech made The Man they were all talking about.
    Agree absolutely. I want the government to put up taxes for everybody, but especially for people like me, to fund a properly functioning public realm. The electorate needs to ditch the something for nothing mindset, or simply accept that if they have a heart attack they will be dead before they get to hospital. The choice is theirs.
    Yebbut you are one of those people who are rich enough to welcome more taxes (like our very own Kini and a few others I dare say). The reality is that people in general, not necessarily only the rich ones, don't want more taxes. As they prove at every GE.

    Democracy, eh?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,018
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    The Tories only got 28% last time the council seats up in May were up anyway and lost over 1000 council seats.

    I therefore doubt the swing will be that bad, albeit a few more seats lost to Labour maybe
    I think its going to be terrible, especially in the Southern strongholds.

    In BCP, for example, my old patch, it wouldn't surprise me to see Bournemouth and Poole Tories down to a handful each. And Christchurch entirely wiped out....
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,627
    Scott_xP said:

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.

    Replaced by whom?
    Joris Bohnson?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,917

    A Jenga-style podium used by Liz Truss in her short-lived stint as prime minister cost taxpayers £4,175, it has emerged.

    The lectern was compared to a Jenga tower, from the board game that results in total collapse, as it featured pieces of wood that resembled Jenga blocks ready to topple. It was specially made for the former prime minister who lasted 45 days in No 10.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/liz-truss-jenga-style-podium-cost-taxpayers-4175

    About £93/day….

    Anyone who thinks that’s a scandalous amount of money, has never had to rent a podium from a conference centre!

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,600

    Agree absolutely. I want the government to put up taxes for everybody, but especially for people like me, to fund a properly functioning public realm. The electorate needs to ditch the something for nothing mindset, or simply accept that if they have a heart attack they will be dead before they get to hospital. The choice is theirs.

    The UK electorate does not vote to pay more tax, they vote for other people to pay more tax.
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    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    Odd that they think they think that imposing yet another new PM on the nation is theoretically less damaging than getting Boris back. Both outcomes are so incredibly crap that it hardly seems worth striving for one over the other.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    Sandpit said:

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.

    Every PM (of late) gets their own unique design
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,228
    edited January 2023

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May but not a patch on Dave C.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    Even Bad Al is calling this one out...

    @campbellclaret: Anyone got to the bottom of the Zahawi tax story yet? Most of media playing along with their ‘if we say nothing eve… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615620589686870021
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629
    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May.
    Quite. There's also the issue of who wants the job.

    All the possible candidates can see that they do the same or worse against Starmer and the current Labour party. So, if they manage to get the job - 18 months of being PM, followed by a crashing defeat and the end of a political career for sure.

    Or try and survive the defeat and wait until there is a better chance.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    @SkyNews: Nadhim Zahawi: 'Unanswered questions remain' over taxes as PM defends his party chairman http://news.sky.com/story/nadhim-zahawi-unanswered-questions-remain-over-taxes-as-pm-defends-his-party-chairman-12789469
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May.
    Your final poiint is the key, Sunak really does not have much to sell at the moment, inflation. strikes etc. Its hard to imagine what he could say any diffferent. Blair used to get hammered by Hague at PMQs when there was little negative stuff for the government to deal with, at the moment there is very little positive news, so its hardly a surprise that he is struggling a bit. Its like a premiership manager 10 points adrift at the bottom of the league trying to put a positive spin on the position.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,496
    JohnO said:

    our pie and chips workingman's lunch

    Q. Does the venue for this 'lunch' have a dress code?
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,714
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    Scholz's refusal is ever harder to explain. But the latest straw in the wind doesn't give grounds for any optimism. Boris Pistorius, incoming new German defence minister who will be a key player in the decision, is reported as having been a member of the German-Russia Friendship parliamentary group until it was dissolved following the invasion of Ukraine. No doubt there's a bit of Kompromat knocking around somewhere.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,418
    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May but not a patch on Dave C.
    Certainly history is littered with people who thought "Leading a political party is really simple - I could easily do better".
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    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    I hope that they place mugshots of Tory MPs on a Wheel of Fortune style wheel then invite the remaining nurse who votes Tory to give it a spin. Then we can all enjoy the hilarity when Jonathan Gullis becomes Prime Minister.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,888
    Chris said:

    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May but not a patch on Dave C.
    Certainly history is littered with people who thought "Leading a political party is really simple - I could easily do better".
    Everyone on here for a start.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,065
    Scott_xP said:

    As well as being generally crap at PMQs, he also needs a better answer on Zahawi

    In fairness, he is not the one who thought Zahawi was a fit and proper person to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, a truly astounding decision given what we now know.
    That he thought he was fit to be a cabinet minister is bad enough of course.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,418

    ... Boris Pistorius, incoming new German defence minister ...

    OK. I'm finally convinced. We're living in a simulation.
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    Sandpit said:

    A Jenga-style podium used by Liz Truss in her short-lived stint as prime minister cost taxpayers £4,175, it has emerged.

    The lectern was compared to a Jenga tower, from the board game that results in total collapse, as it featured pieces of wood that resembled Jenga blocks ready to topple. It was specially made for the former prime minister who lasted 45 days in No 10.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/liz-truss-jenga-style-podium-cost-taxpayers-4175

    About £93/day….

    Anyone who thinks that’s a scandalous amount of money, has never had to rent a podium from a conference centre!

    If there’s any scandal there at all, it’s with the boring accountant who decided to replace it.
    Was the expense of a "true" podium, what inspired John Major to tote along a "real" (?) soap box to the hustings in 1992?
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,418
    TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May but not a patch on Dave C.
    Certainly history is littered with people who thought "Leading a political party is really simple - I could easily do better".
    Everyone on here for a start.
    Explanation for the benefit of the terminally stupid: there's a difference between criticising bad leadership and thinking you could be a better leader.
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    Scott_xP said:

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.

    Replaced by whom?
    Sorib SonJohn. That new blond haired MP no one has ever heard of before. What a wheeze!
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scholz really is the roadblock. Will that change on Friday ?

    Ukraine wants German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    The Netherlands has German-made Leopard 2 tanks.

    Watch Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte ( @MinPres ) respond to
    @ak_mack ’s question about his government sending tanks to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/AtlanticCouncil/status/1615461700202897413

    I'd be quite surprised if Germany refused requests by other countries to transfer Leopards to Ukraine (assuming Biden has told him the US wants this), less sure if Germany will promise tanks itself but could also be a yes. But it's a question of how many countries are on board. Not much point if only Poland and Finland promise a dozen tanks each.

    There are a dozen or more European countries that have Leopard tanks. Some of them are obviously not going to be giving any to Ukraine (Hungary, Austria, Switzerland), or unlikely to (Portugal). Not sure if we've heard in public from many of the others.
    Scholz's refusal is ever harder to explain. But the latest straw in the wind doesn't give grounds for any optimism. Boris Pistorius, incoming new German defence minister who will be a key player in the decision, is reported as having been a member of the German-Russia Friendship parliamentary group until it was dissolved following the invasion of Ukraine. No doubt there's a bit of Kompromat knocking around somewhere.
    It has been suggested that, especially in Germany, there is seen to be a major difference (by some) between "defensive" weapons (SAM systems, AA guns etc) and systems that are "offensive". Such as tanks.

    So giving the OK for supplying tanks breaches a different redline, according to some.
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    JohnO said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, Sunak's not very good at this, he's reminding us how he managed to lose to Liz Truss.

    Truly the Alan Partridge PM.

    I simply don't see what the MPs see in him. I still think May will see his premiership mortally wounded; the next political issue will see him replaced with someone less Eeyorish....
    Speaking to a former Tory strategist the other day, they are convinced that Sunak is getting ousted the moment the committee votes to suspend Boris Johnson for lying to the House.

    The moment there's no chance of Boris Johnson coming back as PM then Sunak's gone.
    A glass of bubbly for me if Sunak survives and five cokes for you if he doesn't at our pie and chips workingman's lunch next month?

    Sunak's there for the duration. He was more than adequate at PMQs bearing in mind the weakness of his hand and a darned sight better than Truss, Johnson and May but not a patch on Dave C.
    I don't think the committee will report by next month, but I'm up for that bet for say a late May working man's lunch.
This discussion has been closed.