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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The scene is set for a dramatic and unpredictable election

SystemSystem Posts: 12,159
edited April 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The scene is set for a dramatic and unpredictable election day on Thursday

And from the main pollsters, the established firms that have been commissioned to carry out regular voting intention surveys at least once since at least GE2010, there is only one big message when looking at Ukip – the party is on a roll.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    first.

    UKiP if you want to - but I can't sleep.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    It remains remarkable that the recent rise of UKIP in the polls isn't hitting (growing) the Conservative deficit against Labour, and in some polls is narrowing it. This suggests to me that these recent switchers are mostly protest voters of various sorts, and not all disgruntled Tories as some commentators often assume. If this is the case and followes through to the ballot box, it follows that UKIP won't hit the Tories as badly as some predict - clearly the Tories are already facing big losses because of the swing since 2009 (mostly to Labour) - but a move of anti-government voters towards UKIP would also represent a significant challenge to the 'official' opposition
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    I suspect that it will be very much the SDP revisited, but on the right. Labour lost a lot of seats in the 80's due to a splitting off by the centre-left, but even in alliance with an existing party, the SDP didn't get very far.
    Watching cricket yesterday in the company of several other "old gits" the chat turned to politics, and the main concern was that there would be a low turn-out; one of the chatters is a regulat poll-clerk and shuddered at the thought of as boring a day as the Police Commssioner elections. One other chatter announced his intention to vote UKIP as he wanted "to make the conservatives think, and would never vote Labour".
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    We've had 4 party politics in Scotland for decades. For most of that period the SNP were just a repository of votes from the disenchanted against the sitting party in a particular seat, so in rural seats they took Tory protestors and in urban seats Labour protestors. In 2011 they took seats from all parties but particularly Labour and LibDem ones. We may see UKIP hurt Labour in the north of England and the Tories/LibDems in the south of England on Thursday. Not long to wait now.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I think we're in for a wild set of results. Our host pointed out yesterday that Labour would have to come from third in many place to win more than about 300-350 seats. The Lib Dems will be relatively strong in seats that they hold, owing to the dedication of their councillor base, but can look forward to destruction elsewhere. Meanwhile the Conservatives can look forward to those like OldKingCole's chatter voting UKIP in large numbers to make the Conservatives think.

    How will all this pan out? It's not at all clear. All three major parties could have secret hopes for a much better night than expected and all three could have secret fears that they might massively underperform expectations.

    Labour's task is simple: to win as many seats as possible. Would the Conservatives be better off doing relatively well in these elections or doing badly, thus making the UKIP defectors think about the consequences of their actions? I'm not at all sure what the correct answer to that is.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    One LD and one Labour leaflet is the sum total of the election literature we have received. I remain uncanvassed in my entire adult voting life (30 years). Is there really an election on Thursday, or is it all a hoax??
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Tory voters tempted to switch to the UK Independence Party in Thursday’s local elections are being warned they risk letting in Labour.
    The Conservatives say a surge in support for Nigel Farage’s Eurosceptic party will merely help the pro-EU Ed Miliband.
    They hope to quell the turmoil in their own ranks by stressing a ‘Vote Farage, get Miliband’ message to counter the growing support for UKIP, who are likely to win more votes than the Liberal Democrats.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2316821/Vote-Farage-Labour-PM-warns-waverers-As-clowns-attack-backfires-ditch-bid-head-UKIP-threat.html#ixzz2RvQmOKbY
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2013
    This morning's article from OGH is better than most of the political articles we will read elsewhere today. Very difficult for anyone of the 3 main parties to be confident going into the results.

    There are two other factors which receive very little attention in the media. Both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems go into these elections having lost >1/3 of their activists since 2009. In some areas the losses are over 1/2. The remaining Conservative activists also contain a large number who intend to send Cameron a purple message. If Cameron keeps losses to circa 300 he should count himself lucky.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @tim - what the Daily Mail omits to mention is that Lockwood was the Economist's US Editor:

    Fraser Nelson: "Coup for No 10 as The Economist’s US editor Chris Lockwood joins the Policy Unit, 1 of the brightest + most insightful people in journalism"

    You are going to be a very unhappy bunny if these 'chums' actually prove good at their jobs....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Janan Ganesh:

    "The Conservatives have failed their way to a cannier election strategy, one that plays to voters’ animal dreads, not their non-existent capacity for gratitude."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66312e88-b0b8-11e2-80f9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RtjDKSqN
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    A general thought on interpreting the daily YouGovs. Sometimes, as today with Labour, a party improves all its ratings (leadership, best party for different issues, etc.) as well as its VI; sometimes they move separately lor even contradictorily. How should we interpret that?

    My tentative view, not backed up by evidence, is that it's more impressive if the VI changes and the underlying questions don't. Seems odd? No, what this shows is that you've got much the same mix of people and their voting intention has changed. If everything moves in lock-step without an apparent reason why the electorate suddenly thinks a party is much better across the board, then you've probably just got a sample a bit more favourable to them. (Thus I'd be more ready to believe Labour's current lead is 7 than 9.)

    Obviously if the improvement in secondaries is sustained over several polls, then it's showing a real improvement, which will help underpin VI. But that's quite rare - the secondaries have been broadly stable over time for yonks.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    The results from Thursday will indeed be interesting.

    There was a good summary of Labour targets on Labourlist: http://labourlist.org/2013/04/local-elections-2013-the-councils-labour-should-watch/

    Most councils across the east and south only have one or two Labour councillors. Bucks, Dorset and Cornwall have none. One nation will be tested.

    And some councils have only been held twice by the Conservatives (1970s and 2009). Labour will want these back.

    Derbys
    Lancs
    Staffs
    Notts
    Northants

    Strong Labour, strong Ukip and weak Lib Dems would mean large losses for the Tories. But it's possible the opposite could happen...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mid term , austerity and a whisker from a triple dip - surely huge gains for the main opposition party ?
  • One LD and one Labour leaflet is the sum total of the election literature we have received. I remain uncanvassed in my entire adult voting life (30 years). Is there really an election on Thursday, or is it all a hoax??

    That's 2 more than I have received.
    1 polling card. That is all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    It will be interesting to compare the national equivalent vote share with the polling in what is one of the biggest opinion polls before the election. I seem to recall that in previous locals Labour had considerably underperformed their Yougov lead, possibly because of differential turnout.

    UKIP are clearly entering these elections on a high. Will it be high enough to push the Lib Dems into 4th? I suspect it might. At the last two sets of elections since 2010 the Lib Dems have lost about 1/3 of their existing seats. If they do anything like as badly as that in these areas, which are really important to them, there will be trouble.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    It's climate change ! But getting colder from 2030, fire up the coal power stations we're going to need all the carbon we can get.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2316898/The-big-freeze-250-years-Experts-say-Suns-activity-wanes-200-years--cooling-period-2040.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TGOHF said:

    Mid term , austerity and a whisker from a triple dip - surely huge gains for the main opposition party ?

    Is that UKIP or Labour ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "UKIP hit 14% high as Tories fear council election meltdown

    It comes as Conservative bosses privately predicted losses of between 600 and 800 seats this week. The poll puts David Cameron’s party on 30 per cent. Meanwhile Labour’s support has dropped below 40 per cent to 39 for the first time in two years.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4908349/UKIP-hit-14-high-as-Tories-fear-council-election-meltdown.html#ixzz2RvWHMDCI
  • Tim, this thread is about local elections yet you keep posting about the next General election. Since OGH does not try to keep you on track so early in a thread .... one of the most significant stories in the news today about the next General Election is from Peter Kellner the President of Yougov (married to a Labour peer) who says that Ed Milliband does not have an authorative voice and is failing.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article3752273.ece

    "In that sense voters’ political judgments are like the human judgments we make all the time: how someone speaks to us matters just as much as what they say. That is where Mr Miliband is weak. For example, a recent YouGov survey found that 40 per cent thought Mr Cameron would be “tough and decisive in a crisis” but only 21 per cent thought that of Mr Miliband. Yesterday’s radio interview will have done nothing to improve those numbers. The Labour leader sounded shrill"

    Clearly the nose job did not work.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Tory anti-UKIP campaign by their friends in the right wing press Daily Mirror:

    UKIP election candidate pictured giving Nazi salute and wielding knife
    30 Apr 2013 00:00
    The Facebook photos are another blow for party leader Nigel Farage ahead of Thursday’s local elections
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-candidate-pictured-giving-nazi-1860602#ixzz2RvX4FHsX

    Farage on R4 - Humphries challenging his 'we haven't had time to check them' with 'you're running too many then'.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    Scottish Separatists Separate over Currency Separation:

    "SNP veterans and SSP's Fox criticise indy plans for sterling"

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/snp-veterans-and-ssps-fox-criticise-indy-plans-for-sterling.1367250697
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    It's climate change ! But getting colder from 2030, fire up the coal power stations we're going to need all the carbon we can get.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2316898/The-big-freeze-250-years-Experts-say-Suns-activity-wanes-200-years--cooling-period-2040.html

    As Eddard of the House of York :) would say

    "Winter is coming"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    "UKIP hit 14% high as Tories fear council election meltdown

    It comes as Conservative bosses privately predicted losses of between 600 and 800 seats this week. The poll puts David Cameron’s party on 30 per cent. Meanwhile Labour’s support has dropped below 40 per cent to 39 for the first time in two years.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4908349/UKIP-hit-14-high-as-Tories-fear-council-election-meltdown.html#ixzz2RvWHMDCI

    I am sure Labour got a couple of 38%s from YouGov last week.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Blue_rog said:

    It's climate change ! But getting colder from 2030, fire up the coal power stations we're going to need all the carbon we can get.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2316898/The-big-freeze-250-years-Experts-say-Suns-activity-wanes-200-years--cooling-period-2040.html

    As Eddard of the House of York :) would say

    "Winter is coming"

    We'll have water shortages by the end of this summer, mark my words!

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Mid term , austerity and a whisker from a triple dip - surely huge gains for the main opposition party ?

    Is that UKIP or Labour ?
    Blue, purple or yellow - anything is better than red.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    "UKIP hit 14% high as Tories fear council election meltdown

    It comes as Conservative bosses privately predicted losses of between 600 and 800 seats this week. The poll puts David Cameron’s party on 30 per cent. Meanwhile Labour’s support has dropped below 40 per cent to 39 for the first time in two years.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4908349/UKIP-hit-14-high-as-Tories-fear-council-election-meltdown.html#ixzz2RvWHMDCI

    I am sure Labour got a couple of 38%s from YouGov last week.

    39 is the lowest - and there have been several over the past month:

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nxf04583t2/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-VotingTrends-290413.pdf
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Spanish GDP -0.5% in 1st quarter -2% year on year...

    http://www.ine.es/en/prensa/cntr0113a_en.pdf
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    @SouthamObserver

    "I am sure Labour got a couple of 38%s from YouGov last week."

    Do you think a Sun reader would notice? They wouldn't even know who UKIP was unless she had big tits.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949



    You are going to be a very unhappy bunny if these 'chums' actually prove good at their jobs....

    This of course is the key - I think every Etonian/Posho appointed to high-profile positions in HMG is a bonkers move but, as the man said, it's the economy....

    If we are looking to come out of the problems this time next year, and of course the year after, then school histories will be academic (!).

    Of course in the complete lefty nightmare scenario, the narrative might emerge that it is _only_ poshos from good schools who can run the country at which point the Lab party might have to make more of their public school fops.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Kaltenborn confirms she's keeping a close eye on Gutierrez:
    http://www.espn.co.uk/sauber/motorsport/story/106864.html

    Frankly, excepting Bianchi, all the newcomers this season have been poor. Bottas and Gutierrez were tipped for great things, and whilst their cars aren't exactly fantastic they've been totally outdriven by their team mates.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    IanB2 said:

    It remains remarkable that the recent rise of UKIP in the polls isn't hitting (growing) the Conservative deficit against Labour, and in some polls is narrowing it. This suggests to me that these recent switchers are mostly protest voters of various sorts, and not all disgruntled Tories as some commentators often assume. If this is the case and followes through to the ballot box, it follows that UKIP won't hit the Tories as badly as some predict - clearly the Tories are already facing big losses because of the swing since 2009 (mostly to Labour) - but a move of anti-government voters towards UKIP would also represent a significant challenge to the 'official' opposition

    "Who votes UKIP" will be the most interesting thing to come out of the post-local-election analysis.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TOPPING said:



    You are going to be a very unhappy bunny if these 'chums' actually prove good at their jobs....

    This of course is the key - I think every Etonian/Posho appointed to high-profile positions in HMG is a bonkers move but, as the man said, it's the economy....

    If we are looking to come out of the problems this time next year, and of course the year after, then school histories will be academic (!).

    Of course in the complete lefty nightmare scenario, the narrative might emerge that it is _only_ poshos from good schools who can run the country at which point the Lab party might have to make more of their public school fops.
    Well yes, it's the economy and so far the Osborne chappies have been great at announcing dumbass gimmicks and noticeably reticent about addressing economic reform. So I wouldn't get too excited. The economy is picking up now off it's own bat and subject to events will improve between now and the GE. Osborne will ride the wave but he's just photo opping since he has done little of substance to contribute to growth.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    @SouthamObserver

    "I am sure Labour got a couple of 38%s from YouGov last week."

    Do you think a Sun reader would notice? They wouldn't even know who UKIP was unless she had big tits.

    The Sun remains the largest newspaper, and the favourite of the WWC, an essential voting demographic.

    I hope the lefties keep shooting themselves in the foot by showing contempt for Sun readers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    edited April 2013

    One LD and one Labour leaflet is the sum total of the election literature we have received. I remain uncanvassed in my entire adult voting life (30 years). Is there really an election on Thursday, or is it all a hoax??

    That's 2 more than I have received.
    1 polling card. That is all.
    A pre-election notce from UKIP ..... we will be running a candidate. And an acquaintace won't be watching cricket on Thursday as he's acting as a poll clerk.

    Otherwise, nothing. Yet anyway!

    Apart, of course, from polling cards for self and wife.

    Not even any posters locally, apart from someone who ALWAYS has a UKIP poster in his shop window.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    edited April 2013
    @alanbrooke

    Oh so that's how it works?

    "The economy is picking up now off it's [sic] own bat".

    apologies because it's a low device but in the words of Mr Pork:

    "chortle"

  • For the first time in my life, I'm making a conscious decision not to vote. I flat out refuse to vote Tory or Labour, I'm not really Lib Dem material and the only other option is BNP.
    I'm going to spend the brief summer we have on Thursday painting the garden fence.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TOPPING said:

    @alanbrooke

    Oh so that's how it works?

    "The economy is picking up now off it's [sic] own bat".

    apologies because it's a low device but in the words of Mr Pork:

    "chortle"

    well we either accept that we are in the longest period of economic stagnation in UK modern history and are never going to come out of it or that the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government. In the longer terms all economies pick up, ours could have picked up faster if GO had grasped the nettle , but he didn't. It's no different than Cable grandstanding on the car industry success, he had bugger all to do with it, the industry did the work by itself and politicians are simply trying to bask in the glow. When the industry dips, as it will because it's cyclical, the polliticos will run a mile.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Stopper, you could always spoil your ballot.

    If we had a write-in option you could vote Morris Dancer.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2013
    I really don't think these elections are too difficult to predict :

    The nation will be enjoying a rather diverse and interesting variety of fruitcake come Friday morning. It will add admirably to the gaiety of the nation all the way to May 2015 !!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    edited April 2013
    @Foxy

    "I hope the lefties keep shooting themselves in the foot by showing contempt for Sun readers"

    Why make a virtue out of rubbing shoulders with morons? Labour's job will be done when educational standards have risen to a level that no one would ever entertain reading such unrewarding trash again.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Puzzled by the proposed prisoner privilege reform. Not the TV stuff, the gender divide:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22341867

    "Male prisoners in England and Wales must work harder for privileges such as TVs in cells, the government has said."

    "Officials are still working on possible changes to the privilege scheme for female prisoners."

    Here's a wild and crazy idea: make it the same for both genders.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Roger said:

    @Foxy

    "I hope the lefties keep shooting themselves in the foot by showing contempt for Sun readers"

    Why make a virtue out of rubbing shoulders with morons? Labour's job will be done when educational standards have risen to a level that no one would ever entertain reading such unrewarding trash again.

    On that basis Roger you'll be going backwards, buy NewsCorp shares now.
  • Roger said:

    @Foxy

    "I hope the lefties keep shooting themselves in the foot by showing contempt for Sun readers"

    Why make a virtue out of rubbing shoulders with morons? Labour's job will be done when educational standards have risen to a level that no one apart from the educationally sub normal would entertain reading such unrewarding trash again.

    Haha! You're going to have a long wait, Rog, me old lad. Labour are shite at education.
    Any way, its good to know that Labour hold a big chunk of the electorate in such contempt. I feel the same way about Guardian readers.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    A more likely scenario under Labour education policy is that the kids spend so much time drawing melting polar bears that none of them can read the Sun hence no sales.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900

    "UKIP hit 14% high as Tories fear council election meltdown

    It comes as Conservative bosses privately predicted losses of between 600 and 800 seats this week. The poll puts David Cameron’s party on 30 per cent. Meanwhile Labour’s support has dropped below 40 per cent to 39 for the first time in two years.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4908349/UKIP-hit-14-high-as-Tories-fear-council-election-meltdown.html#ixzz2RvWHMDCI

    Not bad expectation management!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    "buy NewsCorp shares now."

    My ethical portfolio rules out anything with THAT man's involvement
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    @alanbrooke

    “the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government”

    And this after saying that the economy is getting better “off its own bat”. Well make up your mind. Do you want the govt to be inactive and let the economy recover on its own or do you want it not to be inactive and manage the recovery?

    Look, it’s fine to have differences of opinion about optimal government behaviour and here is ours. My view is that the govt has made an effort to create an environment whereby private enterprise can if not flourish then at least be presented with as few impediments as possible to innovate, create, build. The govt also had a difficult line to tread because if the right noises weren’t made early and consistently to the markets, then our borrowing costs could easily have sky-rocketed (there is no god-given right why the UK should have such low borrowing costs – many people forget that). Hence in my view the govt has done plenty. Your view is that the government should have done more – build roads, houses, (borrow?), more legislation about this or that, etc.

    But what it all comes down to, and it usually does, is the difference between those who think the government should play an ever bigger or an ever smaller part in our lives. I think the latter, it sounds like you think the former.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585

    We've had 4 party politics in Scotland for decades. For most of that period the SNP were just a repository of votes from the disenchanted against the sitting party in a particular seat, so in rural seats they took Tory protestors and in urban seats Labour protestors. In 2011 they took seats from all parties but particularly Labour and LibDem ones. We may see UKIP hurt Labour in the north of England and the Tories/LibDems in the south of England on Thursday. Not long to wait now.

    Good to see Easterross back.

    But he makes a common error here in his underlying assumption of north is Labour, south is Conservative and therefore UKIP gains in the north hurt Labour.

    The parts of the north (and north midlands) where UKIP will do best are among lower middle and skilled wwc voters in the medium sized towns and industrial sprawls.

    They are 'populist' voters - populist on economics, populist on social policy, very populist on immigration.

    These are not 'fashionable' voters and places but they are the ones which the Conservatives need to hoover up if they are to win power. And this will be ever more so as the public sector middle classes continue to drift left politically and non-white electorate increase.

    In 2010 the Conservatives got just enough of these voters (already many were voting for 'rightist' parties) to put Cameron into Downing Street, partly through the aid of Gordon Brown's abuse of Mrs Duffy. But they weren't impressed by the Conservatives, and Cameroons especially, in 2010 and they're even less so now.

    If UKIP are able to attract these voters then EdM will win in 2015 by default.


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Roger said:

    "buy NewsCorp shares now."

    My ethical portfolio rules out anything with THAT man's involvement

    LOL yes, but if he offered you hard cash to shoot an ad, ethics would be a place next to Suffolk.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Puzzled by the proposed prisoner privilege reform. Not the TV stuff, the gender divide:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22341867

    "Male prisoners in England and Wales must work harder for privileges such as TVs in cells, the government has said."

    "Officials are still working on possible changes to the privilege scheme for female prisoners."

    Here's a wild and crazy idea: make it the same for both genders.

    Here is an even wilder and crazier idea: do what works. Stop chasing headlines and pandering to prejudice. If Sky leads to more placid prisoners who go straight when released, show Sky. If watching The Apprentice produces psychopaths, sociopaths and Labour voters, ban the BBC and show Sky.

    Find out what works: use theory, evidence from other countries, and trials in different prisons here. Then do it.

    There may be no votes in prison reform but two hundred years from now, Chris Grayling's portrait might grace the five pound note.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Interesting piece by a leftwing German chap, calling for a full-blown fiscal/political union of the eurozone:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/28/german-role-euro-crisis-disaster

    The comments seem dramatically unimpressed.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    What are the comments about Middlesborough house prices about?

    And why is SeanT getting so orgasmic about the price of his Camden Town flat?

    To realise any gain he would have to sell it and move elsewhere which would mean buying another place. As the next place - a Primrose Hill house perhaps - would have gone up in price even more he will have lost out financially.

    Anyway isn't SeanT meant to have millions and millions in the bank now from his book deals ?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Roger said:

    @SouthamObserver

    "I am sure Labour got a couple of 38%s from YouGov last week."

    Do you think a Sun reader would notice? They wouldn't even know who UKIP was unless she had big tits.

    Just like most of the advertising industry.

  • David Herdson is right---UKIP will gather loads of 2nd places, but very few wins. I expect to be one of them....
    A strong poll for UKIP will have a national impact. In my brief electoral address, I've uged voters this time to 'Think BIG, vote UKIP'.
    I forecast that the good showing from UKIP this year and next will end-play Miliband into offering a referendum on the EU in his 2015 party manifesto.
    UKIP's problem will be winning an in-out referendum. I really can't see enough semi-interested voters to want to leave the EU when they are faced with the scare-mongering that they'll receive.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420

    A general thought on interpreting the daily YouGovs. Sometimes, as today with Labour, a party improves all its ratings (leadership, best party for different issues, etc.) as well as its VI; sometimes they move separately lor even contradictorily. How should we interpret that?

    Sven:

    Ninety-five percent Confidence-Intervals are attributable to samples, not polls. Just because one poll may fit-the-norm regarding VI does not imply that subsidiary questions will do also.

    It's not complex: It is a reflection of random-sampling. Get-it now...?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Roger said:

    "buy NewsCorp shares now."

    My ethical portfolio rules out anything with THAT man's involvement

    Any of your adverts shown on Sky?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2013
    What may be more difficult to analyse is the effect the barrage of bad press that Ukip is presently enjoying has overall. The onslaught from the conservative press should come as no surprise as they have finally woken up to the greater danger that Farage et al pose to the Tories and by definition the election of a majority Ed government.

    LibDem will be sniggering into their beards as they recall the massive effort deployed by the right wing press in the immediate afterglow of Cleggmania that has know been diverted Ukip's way

    Sadly for the kippers they ain't seen nothing yet - There will few more powerful and entertaining sights than the coming two years of nazi saluting, loony, fruitcake and men in white coat stories that will grace our breakfast sideboards.

    "Will the last person leaving the country please turn Farage off !!"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TOPPING said:

    @alanbrooke

    “the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government”

    And this after saying that the economy is getting better “off its own bat”. Well make up your mind. Do you want the govt to be inactive and let the economy recover on its own or do you want it not to be inactive and manage the recovery?

    Look, it’s fine to have differences of opinion about optimal government behaviour and here is ours. My view is that the govt has made an effort to create an environment whereby private enterprise can if not flourish then at least be presented with as few impediments as possible to innovate, create, build. The govt also had a difficult line to tread because if the right noises weren’t made early and consistently to the markets, then our borrowing costs could easily have sky-rocketed (there is no god-given right why the UK should have such low borrowing costs – many people forget that). Hence in my view the govt has done plenty. Your view is that the government should have done more – build roads, houses, (borrow?), more legislation about this or that, etc.

    But what it all comes down to, and it usually does, is the difference between those who think the government should play an ever bigger or an ever smaller part in our lives. I think the latter, it sounds like you think the former.

    Actually that's not my view at all. My view is that the government should have undertaken serious structural reform of the economy. We've had nearly 16 years of Brownomics with political chancellors in the seat rather than reforming ones. When I say inaction I mean rolling back the decades of heaped on legislation which are stopping recovery. The tax code is bigger than it was in 2010, the bonfire of regulation hasn't been lit, the banks remain unrestructured 7 years after an almost terminal crisis. GO has simply added more tinkering to the pot and done little to lift the burdens imposed on business, businesses provide growth governments don't. So when he's claiming the economy is pulling round imo that has nothing to do with him, it's pulling round in spite of him not because of him; and if he won't accept the rap if the bad times then why should he get the credit in the good ? As for the markets story well the BoE has been the biggest buyer of government debt in recent years and has been forcing down interest rates to historic lows. Osborne hasn't really had to cope with the international capital markets only Mervyn King, and has had the benefit of a crisis in Europe to keep attention focused elsewhere.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @david_kendrick1

    Hey ho Kenders, old fruit(cake).

    What PBers are keen to know is where you actually stand in the great Ukip fruitcake spectrum ?

    Are you a full bodied (I used that phrase advisedly) Christmas cake - sugar coating the policies or are you a lighter tea(party) loaf cake. Perhaps you incline to those fruitcakes with the cherry on the top or does your fancy tend to the fruitcake full of nuts ??

    PB awaits your verdict !!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    "Professor Paul Whiteley, Director of the National Policy Monitor, said the poll showed Ed Miliband’s personal standing would have a more positive effect on the Labour vote than his rivals’ would on their partys’ performances."

    Do they have a Department of Hydroponics ?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    JackW said:

    What may be more difficult to analyse is the effect the barrage of bad press that Ukip is presently enjoying has overall. The onslaught from the conservative press should come as no surprise as they have finally woken up to the greater danger that Farage et al pose to the Tories and by definition the election of a majority Ed government.

    LibDem will be sniggering into their beards as they recall the massive effort deployed by the right wing press in the immediate afterglow of Cleggmania that has know been diverted Ukip's way

    Sadly for the kippers they ain't seen nothing yet - There will few more powerful and entertaining sights than the coming two years of nazi saluting, loony, fruitcake and men in white coat stories that will grace our breakfast sideboards.

    "Will the last person leaving the country please turn Farage off !!"

    Agreed - added to which there is the kippers' own capacity for self-destruction. Godfrey Bloom on Sunday evening's R5 Pienaar programme makde a concerted and sustained attempt to put out the message that no woman of child-bearing age should vote for them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,164
    Morning all. Saw the front page of the Mirror this morning, on the surface not good for my various UKIP bets. Will it stick, will the UKIP PR machine get into action, has he been suspended, will this have any influence on South Shields ?! !
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    So The Sun implies a triumph if the Tories only lose 500 seats? Sounds like expectations management to me. They will all be at it.

    "UKIP hit 14% high as Tories fear council election meltdown

    It comes as Conservative bosses privately predicted losses of between 600 and 800 seats this week. The poll puts David Cameron’s party on 30 per cent. Meanwhile Labour’s support has dropped below 40 per cent to 39 for the first time in two years.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4908349/UKIP-hit-14-high-as-Tories-fear-council-election-meltdown.html#ixzz2RvWHMDCI

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The party that to me is in most need of dampening expectations is Ukip.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    What colour are you painting it?

    For the first time in my life, I'm making a conscious decision not to vote. I flat out refuse to vote Tory or Labour, I'm not really Lib Dem material and the only other option is BNP.
    I'm going to spend the brief summer we have on Thursday painting the garden fence.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @ThomasNashe

    Indeed so Nashers.

    The closer Ukip nears to the levers of power or indeed to influencing who pulls the levers then the far greater scrutiny the kippers will find themselves under.

    Every half baked, barely baked, under cooked policy or individual that crosses the nations radar will be pulled to shreds regardless of the truth of the story.

    Does the right wing press want a Leveson plus majority Labour government - not on your nelly !!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949

    TOPPING said:

    @alanbrooke

    “the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government”

    And this after saying that the economy is getting better “off its own bat”. Well make up your mind. Do you want the govt to be inactive and let the economy recover on its own or do you want it not to be inactive and manage the recovery?

    Look, it’s fine to have differences of opinion about optimal government behaviour and here is ours. My view is that the govt has made an effort to create an environment whereby private enterprise can if not flourish then at least be presented with as few impediments as possible to innovate, create, build. The govt also had a difficult line to tread because if the right noises weren’t made early and consistently to the markets, then our borrowing costs could easily have sky-rocketed (there is no god-given right why the UK should have such low borrowing costs – many people forget that). Hence in my view the govt has done plenty. Your view is that the government should have done more – build roads, houses, (borrow?), more legislation about this or that, etc.

    But what it all comes down to, and it usually does, is the difference between those who think the government should play an ever bigger or an ever smaller part in our lives. I think the latter, it sounds like you think the former.

    Actually that's not my view at all. My view is that the government should have undertaken serious structural reform of the economy. We've had nearly 16 years of Brownomics with political chancellors in the seat rather than reforming ones. When I say inaction I mean rolling back the decades of heaped on legislation which are stopping recovery. The tax code is bigger than it was in 2010, the bonfire of regulation hasn't been lit, the banks remain unrestructured 7 years after an almost terminal crisis. GO has simply added more tinkering to the pot and done little to lift the burdens imposed on business, businesses provide growth governments don't. So when he's claiming the economy is pulling round imo that has nothing to do with him, it's pulling round in spite of him not because of him; and if he won't accept the rap if the bad times then why should he get the credit in the good ? As for the markets story well the BoE has been the biggest buyer of government debt in recent years and has been forcing down interest rates to historic lows. Osborne hasn't really had to cope with the international capital markets only Mervyn King, and has had the benefit of a crisis in Europe to keep attention focused elsewhere.

    Oh you’re coming from _that_ side of the fence. The one in the next garden but two!

    Well in _that_ case I don’t disagree with your prescription at all. But timing is everything – it would be a braver man than GO who decided on all those things right now. Do I think he wants to? Hmm, I would say in a quiet moment absolutely but our current political paradigm will make it difficult if not impossible to do so – a bit like EdM found out about the “B” word yesterday on his intereview. Some things the great British public will need getting used to. Small state, individual responsibility, what’s not to like....but I think we need to take baby steps as UK won’t have it any other way. One thing is for sure, if GO _may_ head in that direction, UKIP can’t, Labour won’t and the LD’s aren’t yet part of the argument. So pragmatically, in a let’s-vote-for-the-least-worst option, the Cons are the party for you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,164

    JackW said:

    What may be more difficult to analyse is the effect the barrage of bad press that Ukip is presently enjoying has overall. The onslaught from the conservative press should come as no surprise as they have finally woken up to the greater danger that Farage et al pose to the Tories and by definition the election of a majority Ed government.

    LibDem will be sniggering into their beards as they recall the massive effort deployed by the right wing press in the immediate afterglow of Cleggmania that has know been diverted Ukip's way

    Sadly for the kippers they ain't seen nothing yet - There will few more powerful and entertaining sights than the coming two years of nazi saluting, loony, fruitcake and men in white coat stories that will grace our breakfast sideboards.

    "Will the last person leaving the country please turn Farage off !!"

    Agreed - added to which there is the kippers' own capacity for self-destruction. Godfrey Bloom on Sunday evening's R5 Pienaar programme makde a concerted and sustained attempt to put out the message that no woman of child-bearing age should vote for them.
    Employer flexibility on maternity leave/pay ?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    It's climate change ! But getting colder from 2030, fire up the coal power stations we're going to need all the carbon we can get.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2316898/The-big-freeze-250-years-Experts-say-Suns-activity-wanes-200-years--cooling-period-2040.html

    It's good to see that you're showing your consistency. I remember you talking about how important scepticism was in science and there's a high standard of proof before new theories can be accepted. But one observatory says something and it's reported in the Mail, now it's gospel truth...
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    TGOHF said:

    The party that to me is in most need of dampening expectations is Ukip.

    Pish. If they don't change the world this May, they can focus on Portsmouth South instead, and change the world next year.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @alanbrooke

    “the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government”

    And this after saying that the economy is getting better “off its own bat”. Well make up your mind. Do you want the govt to be inactive and let the economy recover on its own or do you want it not to be inactive and manage the recovery?

    Look, it’s fine to have differences of opinion about optimal government behaviour and here is ours. My view is that the govt has made an effort to create an environment whereby private enterprise can if not flourish then at least be presented with as few impediments as possible to innovate, create, build. The govt also had a difficult line to tread because if the right noises weren’t made early and consistently to the markets, then our borrowing costs could easily have sky-rocketed (there is no god-given right why the UK should have such low borrowing costs – many people forget that). Hence in my view the govt has done plenty. Your view is that the government should have done more – build roads, houses, (borrow?), more legislation about this or that, etc.

    But what it all comes down to, and it usually does, is the difference between those who think the government should play an ever bigger or an ever smaller part in our lives. I think the latter, it sounds like you think the former.

    Actually that's not my view at all. My view is that the government should have undertaken serious structural reform of the economy. We've had nearly 16 years of Brownomics with political chancellors in the seat rather than reforming ones. When I say inaction I mean rolling back the decades of heaped on legislation which are stopping recovery. The tax code is bigger than it was in 2010, the bonfire of regulation hasn't been lit, the banks remain unrestructured 7 years after an almost terminal crisis. GO has simply added more tinkering to the pot and done little to lift the burdens imposed on business, businesses provide growth governments don't. So when he's claiming the economy is pulling round imo that has nothing to do with him, it's pulling round in spite of him not because of him; and if he won't accept the rap if the bad times then why should he get the credit in the good ? As for the markets story well the BoE has been the biggest buyer of government debt in recent years and has been forcing down interest rates to historic lows. Osborne hasn't really had to cope with the international capital markets only Mervyn King, and has had the benefit of a crisis in Europe to keep attention focused elsewhere.
    Oh you’re coming from _that_ side of the fence. The one in the next garden but two!

    Well in _that_ case I don’t disagree with your prescription at all. But timing is everything – it would be a braver man than GO who decided on all those things right now. Do I think he wants to? Hmm, I would say in a quiet moment absolutely but our current political paradigm will make it difficult if not impossible to do so – a bit like EdM found out about the “B” word yesterday on his intereview. Some things the great British public will need getting used to. Small state, individual responsibility, what’s not to like....but I think we need to take baby steps as UK won’t have it any other way. One thing is for sure, if GO _may_ head in that direction, UKIP can’t, Labour won’t and the LD’s aren’t yet part of the argument. So pragmatically, in a let’s-vote-for-the-least-worst option, the Cons are the party for you.
    The Conservatives aren't even willing to leave the EU, despite a plurality of the public supporting it! How on Earth are they going to restructure our economy if they're not even prepared to do what it takes to get rid of the CAP.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Puzzled by the proposed prisoner privilege reform. Not the TV stuff, the gender divide:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22341867

    "Male prisoners in England and Wales must work harder for privileges such as TVs in cells, the government has said."

    "Officials are still working on possible changes to the privilege scheme for female prisoners."

    Here's a wild and crazy idea: make it the same for both genders.

    Here is an even wilder and crazier idea: do what works. Stop chasing headlines and pandering to prejudice. If Sky leads to more placid prisoners who go straight when released, show Sky. If watching The Apprentice produces psychopaths, sociopaths and Labour voters, ban the BBC and show Sky.

    Find out what works: use theory, evidence from other countries, and trials in different prisons here. Then do it.

    There may be no votes in prison reform but two hundred years from now, Chris Grayling's portrait might grace the five pound note.
    What works is locking up repeat offenders for long sentences.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Roger said:

    "buy NewsCorp shares now."

    My ethical portfolio rules out anything with THAT man's involvement

    Haven't you expressed your willingness to work with the child molester Roman Polanski? I don't disagree that Murdoch is a nasty piece of work, but you have to love the consistency of those on the left sometimes. I know people who boycott Israel, but have quite happily gone on holiday to China.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited April 2013
    Re: COMRES Phone Poll: (32/38/9/13)

    Q.6 Do you agree or disagree with each of the following statements?
    At the next Election due in 2015, the Conservatives
    should be given the chance by voters of finishing
    the job of restoring Britain's economic prospects

    Agree: 44%; Disagree 46%; DK 10%

    Men:
    Agree: 42%; Disagree 50%; DK 9%
    Women:
    Agree: 47%; Disagree 42%; DK 10%

    England & Wales:
    Agree 46%; Disagree 44%. DK 10%

    Conservative Voters:
    Agree: 89%; Disagree 8%; DK 3%
    Labour Voters:
    Agree: 19%; Disagree 75%; DK 5%
    LD Votes:
    Agree 44%; Disagree 44%; DK 13%
    UKIP Voters:
    Agree 28%; Disagree 68%; DK 3%
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @alanbrooke

    “the economy is recovering despite the inaction of the government”

    And this after saying that the economy is getting better “off its own bat”. Well make up your mind. Do you want the govt to be inactive and let the economy recover on its own or do you want it not to be inactive and manage the recovery?

    Look, it’s fine to have differences of opinion about optimal government behaviour and here is ours. My view is that the govt has made an effort to create an environment whereby private enterprise can if not flourish then at least be presented with as few impediments as possible to innovate, create, build. The govt also had a difficult line to tread because if the right noises weren’t made early and consistently to the markets, then our borrowing costs could easily have sky-rocketed (there is no god-given right why the UK should have such low borrowing costs – many people forget that). Hence in my view the govt has done plenty. Your view is that the government should have done more – build roads, houses, (borrow?), more legislation about this or that, etc.

    But what it all comes down to, and it usually does, is the difference between those who think the government should play an ever bigger or an ever smaller part in our lives. I think the latter, it sounds like you think the former.

    Actually that's not my view at all. My view is that the government should have undertaken serious structural reform of the economy. We've had nearly 16 years of Brownomics with political chancellors in the seat rather than reforming ones. When I say inaction I mean rolling back the decades of heaped on legislation which are stopping recovery. The tax code is bigger than it was in 2010, the bonfire of regulation hasn't been lit, the banks remain unrestructured 7 years after an almost terminal crisis. GO has simply added more tinkering to the pot and done little to lift the burdens imposed on business, businesses provide growth governments don't. So when he's claiming the economy is pulling round imo that has nothing to do with him, it's pulling round in spite of him not because of him; and if he won't accept the rap if the bad times then why should he get the credit in the good ? As for the markets story well the BoE has been the biggest buyer of government debt in recent years and has been forcing down interest rates to historic lows. Osborne hasn't really had to cope with the international capital markets only Mervyn King, and has had the benefit of a crisis in Europe to keep attention focused elsewhere.

    Oh you’re coming from _that_ side of the fence. The one in the next garden but two!

    Well in _that_ case I don’t disagree with your prescription at all. But timing is everything – it would be a braver man than GO who decided on all those things right now. Do I think he wants to? Hmm, I would say in a quiet moment absolutely but our current political paradigm will make it difficult if not impossible to do so – a bit like EdM found out about the “B” word yesterday on his intereview. Some things the great British public will need getting used to. Small state, individual responsibility, what’s not to like....but I think we need to take baby steps as UK won’t have it any other way. One thing is for sure, if GO _may_ head in that direction, UKIP can’t, Labour won’t and the LD’s aren’t yet part of the argument. So pragmatically, in a let’s-vote-for-the-least-worst option, the Cons are the party for you.
    If the blues want my vote they can start by replacing the elctoral liability that is Osborne and replace him with someone competent, May, Hammond or Plato's cat. As for timing, the timing for reform was 18 months ago to feed in to the electoral cycle in 2015, he fluffed it because he didn't have the bottle to do what was needed. It's now too late to do much until a new Parliament. Maybe he should retire and write a book about Courage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    @Socrates

    "the convervatives aren't willing to leave the EU despite a plurality of the public supporting it"

    Maybe not but they have said they are willing to give the public a vote. Will they do this? Time will tell, my hunch is yes after all even the most self-interested politician has to realise at some point they are governing for the people.

    It's the best offer on the table so far. It needs to be repeated - we can only offer the best outcome possible, not the best possible outcome....

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good morning. I see that the anti-kipper brigade is out in full force this morning, led by that antediluvian JackW, who only raises his head above the parapit to wipe his ARSE.

    Yep, UKIP are definitely in the cross-hairs of the MSM, goaded by the Tories, but supported by the other two of the Con/Lab/Lib party, the three headed hydra with one political body.

    Unfortunately, There is no voting in my area on May 2nd, but will lend a hand where I can.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,738

    For the first time in my life, I'm making a conscious decision not to vote. I flat out refuse to vote Tory or Labour, I'm not really Lib Dem material and the only other option is BNP.
    I'm going to spend the brief summer we have on Thursday painting the garden fence.

    Spoil your ballot paper then. It'll give you a much greater sense of satisfaction, you can send a message, and it'll be seen by the candidates on the night (or at least, by their agents) as all the spoilt papers are presented for confirmation as such.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TOPPING said:

    @Socrates

    "the convervatives aren't willing to leave the EU despite a plurality of the public supporting it"

    Maybe not but they have said they are willing to give the public a vote. Will they do this? Time will tell, my hunch is yes after all even the most self-interested politician has to realise at some point they are governing for the people.

    It's the best offer on the table so far. It needs to be repeated - we can only offer the best outcome possible, not the best possible outcome....

    There is no chance of the Conservatives getting a majority next time, and the Lib Dems wouldn't agree to a coalition if that meant a referendum. Eurosceptics need to accept we have to play the long game. The best thing we can do for the next parliament is to get a couple of UKIP MPs, so the party is then represented better in the political discussion.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    edited April 2013
    Socrates said:

    It's climate change ! But getting colder from 2030, fire up the coal power stations we're going to need all the carbon we can get.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2316898/The-big-freeze-250-years-Experts-say-Suns-activity-wanes-200-years--cooling-period-2040.html

    It's good to see that you're showing your consistency. I remember you talking about how important scepticism was in science and there's a high standard of proof before new theories can be accepted. But one observatory says something and it's reported in the Mail, now it's gospel truth...
    Sorry Socrates, I forgot you don't do irony. However since your asking there's a fairly constant base of historical evidence for cold periods, you might like to try reading Ian Morris Why the West Rules for now where the instances of cold periods is fairly regular and they have had quite a profound effect on human history. Whether we're heading in to one now who can say but one will come along eventually. The same chappies predicting massive warming were also predicting in 1976 we'd now be in an ice age, so yes I remain sceptical.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Mike. Are you ready to pay the extra 12% pensioners tax that Farage seems to want? His plan is to fuse National Insurance and income tax. Pensioners don't pay NI
    MikeK said:

    Good morning. I see that the anti-kipper brigade is out in full force this morning, led by that antediluvian JackW, who only raises his head above the parapit to wipe his ARSE.

    Yep, UKIP are definitely in the cross-hairs of the MSM, goaded by the Tories, but supported by the other two of the Con/Lab/Lib party, the three headed hydra with one political body.

    Unfortunately, There is no voting in my area on May 2nd, but will lend a hand where I can.

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    '"Professor Paul Whiteley, Director of the National Policy Monitor, said the poll showed Ed Miliband’s personal standing would have a more positive effect on the Labour vote than his rivals’ would on their partys’ performances."

    That was before Ed got savaged by Martha Kearney,
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2013

    Mike. Are you ready to pay the extra 12% pensioners tax that Farage seems to want? His plan is to fuse National Insurance and income tax. Pensioners don't pay NI

    MikeK said:

    Good morning. I see that the anti-kipper brigade is out in full force this morning, led by that antediluvian JackW, who only raises his head above the parapit to wipe his ARSE.

    Yep, UKIP are definitely in the cross-hairs of the MSM, goaded by the Tories, but supported by the other two of the Con/Lab/Lib party, the three headed hydra with one political body.

    Unfortunately, There is no voting in my area on May 2nd, but will lend a hand where I can.

    Leaving aside the fact that pensioners would likely get special protection once again, since when was the removal of a tax relief a "tax"? The oldies are so bloody molly coddled as a group. I'd have thought the group leaving an enormous debt mountain to the next generation might feel a degree of civic responsibility to at least help out an equal amount in paying it down.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    john_zims said:

    That was before Ed got savaged by Martha Kearney,

    He tripped on his shoelaces.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    The same chappies predicting massive warming were also predicting in 1976 we'd now be in an ice age, so yes I remain sceptical.

    Can you name these "chappies" please?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    TOPPING said:

    Maybe not but they have said they are willing to give the public a vote.

    They've said they'll give the public a vote after one of two things that are very unlikely to happen. (a treaty of 28 soon or the other 27 agreeing to a new treaty just for Britain soon.) Despite being specifically asked, they won't say whether or when they'll give the public a vote if neither of the two very unlikely things happens.
    TOPPING said:

    Will they do this? Time will tell, my hunch is yes after all even the most self-interested politician has to realise at some point they are governing for the people.

    lol
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I don't think that Ed Miliband is a particular asset for the Labour party in the polling. However, the interview on The World At One will make the square root of f all's difference to this.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "... in Germany, austerity is actually not called austerity at all (it sounds “evil” as Angela Merkel has pointed out). Instead, the term used is sparkurs (savings course) or sparpolitik (savings politics). Or as a verb; Hausaufgaben machen – to do your homework. The opposite is schuldenpolitik (debt politics) or Schulden machen (to make debt).

    Such semantics matter. Fundamentally, they illustrate that the perceived dichotomy between ‘austerity’ and ‘growth’ – which strikes a chord with some other electorates in Europe – is a non-starter in Germany."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/matspersson/100024301/criticise-it-all-you-want-germany-is-not-going-to-drop-austerity/
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,290
    @tim - You've been uncharacteristically mute lately on Dave's 'problem' with women. Care to update us on the findings of Comres and today's YouGov in that regard?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,164

    Mike. Are you ready to pay the extra 12% pensioners tax that Farage seems to want? His plan is to fuse National Insurance and income tax. Pensioners don't pay NI

    MikeK said:

    Good morning. I see that the anti-kipper brigade is out in full force this morning, led by that antediluvian JackW, who only raises his head above the parapit to wipe his ARSE.

    Yep, UKIP are definitely in the cross-hairs of the MSM, goaded by the Tories, but supported by the other two of the Con/Lab/Lib party, the three headed hydra with one political body.

    Unfortunately, There is no voting in my area on May 2nd, but will lend a hand where I can.

    Maybe they should ;)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe not but they have said they are willing to give the public a vote.

    They've said they'll give the public a vote after one of two things that are very unlikely to happen. (a treaty of 28 soon or the other 27 agreeing to a new treaty just for Britain soon.) Despite being specifically asked, they won't say whether or when they'll give the public a vote if neither of the two very unlikely things happens.
    To be fair, when Cameron was asked what if he couldn't get a renegotiation, he said "'I'm confident that we can achieve that but let me be absolutely clear, if I am Prime Minister this will happen," which is a pretty solid commitment.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    What works is locking up repeat offenders for long sentences.

    That is common sense, not evidence. As is often the case with common sense, it is probably wrong. Some American states tried it. The evidence appears to be that it does not work.

    The truth is that we do not really understand what drives and prevents crime, because governments, by and large, don't care.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Socrates said:

    The same chappies predicting massive warming were also predicting in 1976 we'd now be in an ice age, so yes I remain sceptical.

    Can you name these "chappies" please?
    why? don't you believe ice ages were a la rage in the 1970s, I even remember the BBC running programmes on it.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @MikeSmithson

    "Mike. Are you ready to pay the extra 12% pensioners tax that Farage seems to want? His plan is to fuse National Insurance and income tax. Pensioners don't pay NI"

    The fusion of National Insurance and income tax is a policy that I support. There is no reason that a good economy couldn't provide that missing 12% for pensioners from other coffers: perhaps from all the cash going into all these wind farms being constructed.

    BTW, I have just found out that my son is voting UKIP in Wiltshire and that my daughter in law has actually joined the party. Happy days!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,164

    Socrates said:

    The same chappies predicting massive warming were also predicting in 1976 we'd now be in an ice age, so yes I remain sceptical.

    Can you name these "chappies" please?
    why? don't you believe ice ages were a la rage in the 1970s, I even remember the BBC running programmes on it.
    I distinctly remember in my geogrpahy lessons another 'ice age' or glacial in the current ice age to be more technically correct was overdue. This is ~ 1994.

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