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The numbers do add up for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Given the dross Hollywood / Disney keep putting out, would anybody be shocked if they have their own version of ChatGPT and all the blue hair weirdos that supposedly writer / direct / produce much of their output don't really exist....

    Glass Onion feels like a movie written by an AI trained on a combination of old fashioned murder mysteries, but given prompts to make it "appropriate for modern sensibilities".

    Could Chat GPT write a novel as a racist? Not from the POV of a racist, nor a liberal’s idea of what a racist is, but actually as a racist, like Lovecraft? Because much interesting literature is actually (my the standards of 2022) pretty bigoted.

    Quite soon, AI will be able to write almost ANYTHING. And it will do it much better than any
    human

    So, yes
    I've barely used ChatGPT in almost a week now. To call it beige at this point would be an insult to beige.

    At the risks of turning into Scott, and just copying and pasting other parts of the internet, this quote from the ChatGPT subreddit stood out:

    "It's unfortunate and yet predictable that the worst part of the AI chatbot has nothing to do with the quality of the AI, but everything to do with the restrictions that the human devs put on what it is and isn't allowed to say."

    Though on reflection, at least its refusal to tell you who would win in a fight between various fictional superheroes, and the lecture you get on why all violence (yes, even fictional violence) is wrong, would mean the end of the Marvel franchise.

    Every cloud...
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/chatgpt-a-world-class-bs-machine/

    Very good article from December. Not by who you'd think.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,759
    edited January 2023
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    THERE IS NO CHAMPAGNE IN THE SINGAPORE AIRLINES LOUNGE

    I am jealous. I went from one-world gold to silver and now down to bronze as Covid and the post-Covid business austerity took hold. I’ll possibly never wander into a lounge on an economy ticket again.
    Yes, it’s sad when you call up the airline and they basically say “who are you?”. I used to have status with Emirates and BA, but sadly no more. Had to buy my own drinks at the bar, rather than sit in the lounge, on my last trip.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    THERE IS NO CHAMPAGNE IN THE SINGAPORE AIRLINES LOUNGE

    I am jealous. I went from one-world gold to silver and now down to bronze as Covid and the post-Covid business austerity took hold. I’ll possibly never wander into a lounge on an economy ticket again.
    You could always, you know, pay with you own money ;-)
  • TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
  • TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    I'd go with silky..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,453

    Leon said:

    THERE IS NO CHAMPAGNE IN THE SINGAPORE AIRLINES LOUNGE

    DRINK GIN

    Where are you off to?
    The usual
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,213

    https://twitter.com/48_Crash/status/1612067312806547457

    How strange, we didn't seem to be against Harry killing then.

    Talk to any serviceman who has actually been in action. They thought he was a twat for saying it then just as they do now.
    Well, unlike the tabloids and the people whose noses are lead by them, at least they're being consistent.
    Since we've only got Topping and Dura Ace on here to give the serviceman's view, let's see if they're in accord with 'any serviceman'.
    Your sudden fondness for squaddies bragging about their kill count is one of PB's more remarkable recent developments.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,309

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    “Violets” is a favourite. I’ve never eaten a violet. Yet it is a common tasting note for red wines from all over the old world.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,873
    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    I seem to remember that the actor who played 'Dirty Den' (before his second 'problems') wrote a wine tasting book with 100s of wines where he'd just say thing like 'Tastes ok, quite fruity' - and that was it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,453

    https://twitter.com/48_Crash/status/1612067312806547457

    How strange, we didn't seem to be against Harry killing then.

    Talk to any serviceman who has actually been in action. They thought he was a twat for saying it then just as they do now.
    Well, unlike the tabloids and the people whose noses are lead by them, at least they're being consistent.
    Since we've only got Topping and Dura Ace on here to give the serviceman's view, let's see if they're in accord with 'any serviceman'.
    I've heard quite a few soldiers talk about killing and even total deaths. None did it with "pride" (that would be seriously creepy), but nor were they especially tortured. It is what they do, after all



  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,213

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
  • TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It's mostly bollocks anyway. A perfect job for ChatGPT.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Which leads me to a weird question: do silkworms have tastebuds? I presume they'd have something, as taste is a really useful ability for telling what is good, and what is not good, to eat.

    But do they?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,901
    Brazil 2 minutes ago.

    "Dozens of Army soldiers entered the presidential offices within the past 30 minutes. Two helicopters are hovering over the presidential offices. Officers in the helicopters are firing what appear to be anti-riot ammunition and tear-gas canisters. A large group of protesters are now heading away from the presidential offices and toward the back entry to Congress."

    Source:NY Times.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,057

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Which leads me to a weird question: do silkworms have tastebuds? I presume they'd have something, as taste is a really useful ability for telling what is good, and what is not good, to eat.

    But do they?
    At the risk of getting all late night freshers at Uni, do animals that eat grass think they are surrounded by cake?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,901

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Which leads me to a weird question: do silkworms have tastebuds? I presume they'd have something, as taste is a really useful ability for telling what is good, and what is not good, to eat.

    But do they?
    Yes. Most definitely.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32936797/
  • https://twitter.com/48_Crash/status/1612067312806547457

    How strange, we didn't seem to be against Harry killing then.

    Talk to any serviceman who has actually been in action. They thought he was a twat for saying it then just as they do now.
    Well, unlike the tabloids and the people whose noses are lead by them, at least they're being consistent.
    Since we've only got Topping and Dura Ace on here to give the serviceman's view, let's see if they're in accord with 'any serviceman'.
    Your sudden fondness for squaddies bragging about their kill count is one of PB's more remarkable recent developments.
    You're easy amazed
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Except most Mulberry trees in the UK are not the same kind as Silkworms eat AFAIK
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Which leads me to a weird question: do silkworms have tastebuds? I presume they'd have something, as taste is a really useful ability for telling what is good, and what is not good, to eat.

    But do they?
    Is this a 'do androids dream of electric sheep' style question?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,955
    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
  • My Dad is so cool

    I told him last week that my favourite singer of all time, Mavis Staples, is playing at the Union Chapel in Islington in July next year

    He's bought four tickets for him, Mum, me and my friend Julia

    Mavis is in her eighties now, but still puts on a show

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Me2__L2djPw
  • My Dad is so cool

    I told him last week that my favourite singer of all time, Mavis Staples, is playing at the Union Chapel in Islington in July next year

    He's bought four tickets for him, Mum, me and my friend Julia

    Mavis is in her eighties now, but still puts on a show

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Me2__L2djPw

    Hope the tickets do not get lost in the post.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    dixiedean said:

    Brazil 2 minutes ago.

    "Dozens of Army soldiers entered the presidential offices within the past 30 minutes. Two helicopters are hovering over the presidential offices. Officers in the helicopters are firing what appear to be anti-riot ammunition and tear-gas canisters. A large group of protesters are now heading away from the presidential offices and toward the back entry to Congress."

    Source:NY Times.

    To repel the cup attempt or support it?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    “Violets” is a favourite. I’ve never eaten a violet. Yet it is a common tasting note for red wines from all over the old world.
    I'm not sophisticated enough for red wine. But I do like a Parma Violet sweet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,901

    dixiedean said:

    Brazil 2 minutes ago.

    "Dozens of Army soldiers entered the presidential offices within the past 30 minutes. Two helicopters are hovering over the presidential offices. Officers in the helicopters are firing what appear to be anti-riot ammunition and tear-gas canisters. A large group of protesters are now heading away from the presidential offices and toward the back entry to Congress."

    Source:NY Times.

    To repel the cup attempt or support it?
    Sorry.
    I am not at the scene. How'm I supposed to know better than the NYT? ;)
  • Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Except most Mulberry trees in the UK are not the same kind as Silkworms eat AFAIK
    10/10. Silkworms eat white mulberry leaves. That well known dork Henry VIII imported black mulberry trees to kickstart the English silk industry.

    BTW white/black are not about fruit colour. White mulberry fruit when ripe can be white red or black.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    “Violets” is a favourite. I’ve never eaten a violet. Yet it is a common tasting note for red wines from all over the old world.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_(plant)#Culinary
  • .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,931
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hah. Just showed the Poe Poems to a professional writer friend. A one word reaction

    “Fuck”

    That can be interpreted in (at least) two ways.
    I rightly interpreted it as meaning "Fuck, soon my art form - novel writing - will be taken over and ruined by the machines"

    This really is the end for most creative writers. If Claude can master advanced poetry and it can write amusing Seinfeld scripts, then it can do anything. And it will do anything, because better and better AIs are coming down the line

    The only human writing that will survive will be memoir, travel, human interest journalism. The direct human experience an AI cannot have
    Why will travel survive?
    Why can't AI just figure out what it would be like?
    Because humans want and deserve more than just secondhand pleasures, despite how we secretly enjoy Leon’s travelogues.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,213
    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Except most Mulberry trees in the UK are not the same kind as Silkworms eat AFAIK
    Yet another Brexit lie we were told by Gove - he said we held all the mulberries.
  • Mavis is the Queen of Woke

    She went on tour with MLK and opened his speeches with a show

    And she sang this song for the cause in Africa

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWhcTu5El0c

    If woke meant what it used to mean
  • dixiedean said:

    Brazil 2 minutes ago.

    "Dozens of Army soldiers entered the presidential offices within the past 30 minutes. Two helicopters are hovering over the presidential offices. Officers in the helicopters are firing what appear to be anti-riot ammunition and tear-gas canisters. A large group of protesters are now heading away from the presidential offices and toward the back entry to Congress."

    Source:NY Times.

    To repel the cup attempt or support it?
    Bra-zil?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2023
    I believe in English teaching there is now a lot made of categorising words into Tier 1,2,3.

    I was quite surprised that ChatGPT can't do this. I would have thought it would have seen huge numbers of word lists with the category, but it makes massive mistakes.

    e.g. Tier 3 is subject specialised words e.g. photosynthesis, or least commonly used in a language.

    ChatGPT thinks words like nose, oranges and toothpaste are Tier 3 words.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,931
    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    I seem to remember that the actor who played 'Dirty Den' (before his second 'problems') wrote a wine tasting book with 100s of wines where he'd just say thing like 'Tastes ok, quite fruity' - and that was it.
    If most reviews of wines said something like “Tastes ok, quite fruity” or “not worth buying”, it would be really useful, because then we could concentrate on the other reviews, the ones for wines worth considering.
  • ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    I seem to remember that the actor who played 'Dirty Den' (before his second 'problems') wrote a wine tasting book with 100s of wines where he'd just say thing like 'Tastes ok, quite fruity' - and that was it.
    If most reviews of wines said something like “Tastes ok, quite fruity” or “not worth buying”, it would be really useful, because then we could concentrate on the other reviews, the ones for wines worth considering.
    But what I am looking for is "This is/is not worth buying at this price" from someone I trust like Jancis Robinson. I appreciate she has to vary and embroider her words a bit, but nobody ever read a review which said a wine had notes of strawberry and thought eeeeuw, I prefer my notes raspberry.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,931

    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Except most Mulberry trees in the UK are not the same kind as Silkworms eat AFAIK
    10/10. Silkworms eat white mulberry leaves. That well known dork Henry VIII imported black mulberry trees to kickstart the English silk industry.

    BTW white/black are not about fruit colour. White mulberry fruit when ripe can be white red or black.
    Shock, horror! Henry VIII is infallible according to Brexiteers. Maybe Brexiteers are wrong about everything else as well.
  • dixiedean said:

    Brazil 2 minutes ago.

    "Dozens of Army soldiers entered the presidential offices within the past 30 minutes. Two helicopters are hovering over the presidential offices. Officers in the helicopters are firing what appear to be anti-riot ammunition and tear-gas canisters. A large group of protesters are now heading away from the presidential offices and toward the back entry to Congress."

    Source:NY Times.

    To repel the cup attempt or support it?
    Bra-zil?
    If they are headed for the back entry I hope they find a landing strip.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2023

    I believe in English teaching there is now a lot made of categorising words into Tier 1,2,3.

    I was quite surprised that ChatGPT can't do this. I would have thought it would have seen huge numbers of word lists with the category, but it makes massive mistakes.

    e.g. Tier 3 is subject specialised words e.g. photosynthesis, or least commonly used in a language.

    ChatGPT thinks words like nose, oranges and toothpaste are Tier 3 words.

    LOL, its total garbage....the longer the list of words, the less likely it is to think any word is a Tier 3 word, even really complex / rarely used ones.

    I should add that a computer can definitely achieve this task via some fairly standard NLP algorithms, its just that ChatGPT is a bullshitter (rather than say actually I am not trained to do this task).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,213

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    Seems Bolsonaro supporters have been following the Trump supporters playback in storming the country's legislature rather than accept their candidate's defeat
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168
    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    HYUFD said:

    Seems Bolsonaro supporters have been following the Trump supporters playback in storming the country's legislature rather than accept their candidate's defeat

    No shit, Sherlock?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    Why? Have you shot some of these idiots?
  • Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    A silkworm would know - though I think they eat the leaves.
    Except most Mulberry trees in the UK are not the same kind as Silkworms eat AFAIK
    10/10. Silkworms eat white mulberry leaves. That well known dork Henry VIII imported black mulberry trees to kickstart the English silk industry.

    BTW white/black are not about fruit colour. White mulberry fruit when ripe can be white red or black.
    Shock, horror! Henry VIII is infallible according to Brexiteers. Maybe Brexiteers are wrong about everything else as well.
    I did him a serious disservice, it was James VI/I. Scots to blame as usual.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    You could make a case that maths and IT are both a form of science.

    English language is a poor substitute for history though.
  • .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
  • Brazil looks like a bunch of yobos rather than an organised coup.

    Unlike Trump's Insurrection that is?

    Yes, his coup was only quasi-organized, but that was NOT for want of trying, but rather due to the LOOOOW caliber of his inner circle.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/48_Crash/status/1612067312806547457

    How strange, we didn't seem to be against Harry killing then.

    Talk to any serviceman who has actually been in action. They thought he was a twat for saying it then just as they do now.
    Well, unlike the tabloids and the people whose noses are lead by them, at least they're being consistent.
    Since we've only got Topping and Dura Ace on here to give the serviceman's view, let's see if they're in accord with 'any serviceman'.
    I've heard quite a few soldiers talk about killing and even total deaths. None did it with "pride" (that would be seriously creepy), but nor were they especially tortured. It is what they do, after all
    It makes for more compelling drama to have them be so, but it would probably be more surprising now if a veteran character in fiction was not especially tortured by their time in the service.

  • ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    You could make a case that maths and IT are both a form of science.

    English language is a poor substitute for history though.
    You really couldn't. Maths and logic are about proving things, science says you can only disprove them. I mean, we don't have to believe everything Uncle Karl tells us, but that looks a clear and useful distinction.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    So like O levels, only 2 years older?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168
    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    Why? Have you shot some of these idiots?
    Here is the list of commissioners on that review - it includes plenty of heads and teachers.

    Do you think they are all idiots?

    "Rachel Sylvester Chairwoman

    Sir Anthony Seldon Deputy chairman. Contemporary historian, former head of Brighton College and Wellington College and former vice-chancellor, University of Buckingham

    Geoff Barton General secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders

    Lord Bilimoria Founder of Cobra Beer, president of the CBI and chancellor of Birmingham University

    Sarah-Jayne Blakemore Professor of cognitive neuroscience at Cambridge University, who leads a group studying the adolescent brain and behaviour

    Sir Damon Buffini Permira founding partner, chairman of National Theatre and Cultural Recovery Fund Board

    Dame Sally Coates Director at United Learning, which runs 90 schools; author of review of education in prison

    Evelyn Forde Head of Copthall School in Barnet and winner of TES head of the year 2020

    Kiran Gill Founder of The Difference, which sends high-flying teachers to referral units and alternative provision schools

    Robert Halfon Tory MP for Harlow and chairman of Commons education select committee

    Lucy Heller Chief executive of Ark, an educational charity that runs schools

    Tristram Hunt Victoria & Albert Museum director, former Labour MP

    Lord Johnson of Marylebone Former
    universities minister, chairman of TES

    Paul Johnson Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies

    Lucy Kellaway Teacher at Mossbourne Community Academy in Hackney and co-founder of Now Teach

    Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho Chairwoman of WeTransfer, Open University chancellor, Lords Covid-19 select committee chairwoman

    Anne Longfield Former children’s commissioner for England

    Professor Heather McGregor Executive dean of Edinburgh Business School at Heriot-Watt University

    Amanda Melton Principal of Nelson and Colne FE college in Lancashire

    Sir Michael Morpurgo Author, poet and playwright, and former teacher"

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510

    Brazil looks like a bunch of yobos rather than an organised coup.

    Unlike Trump's Insurrection that is?

    Yes, his coup was only quasi-organized, but that was NOT for want of trying, but rather due to the LOOOOW caliber of his inner circle.
    The 'it was shittily done and failed, so it is ok' argument is surprisingly pervasive.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    You could make a case that maths and IT are both a form of science.

    English language is a poor substitute for history though.
    Neither maths nor IT apply the scientific method imo.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,213

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    The yeasty quality of champagne, combined with sweetness from residual sugar and vanillins if there's been any oak contact, I suppose makes baked goods a fairly evocative tasting note. Biscuits is a very common tasting note in whiskies aged in white oak (seasoned from Bourbon maturation) too. I agree that it would be a better guide if the reviewer got specific about their biscuits.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    Why? Have you shot some of these idiots?
    No soldier answers that question.

    - Sergeant Smith RM told me about his 47 confirmed kills

    - No true soldier answers that question.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hah. Just showed the Poe Poems to a professional writer friend. A one word reaction

    “Fuck”

    That can be interpreted in (at least) two ways.
    I rightly interpreted it as meaning "Fuck, soon my art form - novel writing - will be taken over and ruined by the machines"

    This really is the end for most creative writers. If Claude can master advanced poetry and it can write amusing Seinfeld scripts, then it can do anything. And it will do anything, because better and better AIs are coming down the line

    The only human writing that will survive will be memoir, travel, human interest journalism. The direct human experience an AI cannot have
    We can have novel writing as a novel experience - check out this book, written by a 100% real life human!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168
    It's amazing that angry unhinged rant of @ydoethur got nine likes.

    When I look at who it includes I'm not surprised by some of the names, but disappointed by others.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    So like O levels, only 2 years older?
    I am not an advocate for any compulsory academic training to 18; some people are just not suited to it.

    I would though ensure everyone has ample opportunity and encouragement to attain basic numeracy and literacy no matter what age they are.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Oh the irony.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    edited January 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    In the workplace unless you want to teach or research history or work in a museum or be a scientist or doctor or engineer you don't need history or science day to day. They should be compulsory to 16 as any educated person should have some core knowledge of them but not beyond that.

    However most office and admin jobs today need effective English language and communication skills, core numeracy and IT.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,453
    Jeez. It’s been a long time. The quality late evening biz class flight, from wintry london to the tropical sun

    One of the minor but emphatic pleasures of life

    I will wake up in a place where it is 32C and sunny
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045
    edited January 2023

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    Why? Have you shot some of these idiots?
    Here is the list of commissioners on that review - it includes plenty of heads and teachers.

    Do you think they are all idiots?

    "Rachel Sylvester Chairwoman

    Sir Anthony Seldon Deputy chairman. Contemporary historian, former head of Brighton College and Wellington College and former vice-chancellor, University of Buckingham

    Geoff Barton General secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders

    Lord Bilimoria Founder of Cobra Beer, president of the CBI and chancellor of Birmingham University

    Sarah-Jayne Blakemore Professor of cognitive neuroscience at Cambridge University, who leads a group studying the adolescent brain and behaviour

    Sir Damon Buffini Permira founding partner, chairman of National Theatre and Cultural Recovery Fund Board

    Dame Sally Coates Director at United Learning, which runs 90 schools; author of review of education in prison

    Evelyn Forde Head of Copthall School in Barnet and winner of TES head of the year 2020

    Kiran Gill Founder of The Difference, which sends high-flying teachers to referral units and alternative provision schools

    Robert Halfon Tory MP for Harlow and chairman of Commons education select committee

    Lucy Heller Chief executive of Ark, an educational charity that runs schools

    Tristram Hunt Victoria & Albert Museum director, former Labour MP

    Lord Johnson of Marylebone Former
    universities minister, chairman of TES

    Paul Johnson Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies

    Lucy Kellaway Teacher at Mossbourne Community Academy in Hackney and co-founder of Now Teach

    Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho Chairwoman of WeTransfer, Open University chancellor, Lords Covid-19 select committee chairwoman

    Anne Longfield Former children’s commissioner for England

    Professor Heather McGregor Executive dean of Edinburgh Business School at Heriot-Watt University

    Amanda Melton Principal of Nelson and Colne FE college in Lancashire

    Sir Michael Morpurgo Author, poet and playwright, and former teacher"

    Yes. In fact Tristram Hunt, to take only one name, represents in grotesque form everything that's wrong with this country. The man is so utterly vacuous that you feel your intellect seeping away every time you read his writings.

    In any case, I was judging them not on their roles or qualifications but on their utterly nonsensical arguments, which i raised significant objections to based on the facts. I note you are unable to refute those.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    So like O levels, only 2 years older?
    I am not an advocate for any compulsory academic training to 18; some people are just not suited to it.

    I would though ensure everyone has ample opportunity and encouragement to attain basic numeracy and literacy no matter what age they are.
    So you disagree with Gordon Brown who extended it then?
  • I posed the question early about moving a business to Asia (and living there). It seems the only response I got was Singapore, is that really the only place in Asia safe to operate a business, some talent pool of tech savvy who speak English?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,931

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    You could make a case that maths and IT are both a form of science.

    English language is a poor substitute for history though.
    Neither maths nor IT apply the scientific method imo.
    There is a case, as shown by the varying views on here, for a much more wide ranging curriculum. The overriding principle should be “how to think”, not “what to think”. It might help political views, as well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    It's amazing that angry unhinged rant of @ydoethur got nine likes.

    When I look at who it includes I'm not surprised by some of the names, but disappointed by others.

    It's very wrong of me to be angry that people spout nonsense.

    To give you some idea of how stupid their ideas are, they are the equivalent of somebody proposing to get Brunel's atmospheric railway out of retirement to power the Elizabeth Line and use HS2 rolling stock along with it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
    This is certainly true, but do we need every 18 year old to do that?

    A lot of businesses, there will certainly be one or two individuals who conduct those sort of meetings, but a lot of it will be done by a wider team who never meet their foreign counterparts, rather they are doing paperwork, answering emails, etc.

    And that is why I said there is certainly still a role for expert foreign language speakers, but I think that what we will be seeing is something far more sophisticated than Google Translate which will enable teams to converse with foreign counterparts with little more than entering bullet points and letting the AI system write the email / letter.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168
    FWIW, I disagree with Alistair Meeks. I don't think Boris's chances of being next Conservative leader should be as long as 20/1. However, I'm not on this market as I prefer the next PM market - where you can get better odds.

    If Rishi falls before the election it will almost certainly be Boris who takes over as PM again.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,759

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    Google Translate already does live speech-to-speech translation, fast enough to enable a conversation between two people neither of whom know the other language. It’s not as good as a human live translator - but if you want to order dinner in a restaurant, rather than sign an international treaty or a corporate legal agreement, it’s more than good enough!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168

    It's amazing that angry unhinged rant of @ydoethur got nine likes.

    When I look at who it includes I'm not surprised by some of the names, but disappointed by others.

    I think there's something squiffy with the likes system today, because my gag about the Tory Party earlier was a five-liker in my humble opinion.
    Lol.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    There's a lot of laziness in wine tasting reports. Riesling is often described as smelling of petrol. Now I've smelt petrol and I've smelt and tasted plenty of riesling and they couldn't be more different.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388
    Amazing scenes in Brazil. The mob do seem to be attacking the police, so it does seem as if at least some police are standing up for democracy and the rule of law.

    https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1612171683363700738?t=o-vFs739-BTeXt5hQQZoeg&s=19
  • FWIW, I disagree with Alistair Meeks. I don't think Boris's chances of being next Conservative leader should be as long as 20/1. However, I'm not on this market as I prefer the next PM market - where you can get better odds.

    If Rishi falls before the election it will almost certainly be Boris who takes over as PM again.

    Worse odds if you think he is a lay. It is just soooo not happening.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    FWIW, I disagree with Alistair Meeks. I don't think Boris's chances of being next Conservative leader should be as long as 20/1. However, I'm not on this market as I prefer the next PM market - where you can get better odds.

    If Rishi falls before the election it will almost certainly be Boris who takes over as PM again.

    Worse odds if you think he is a lay. It is just soooo not happening.
    Unless you're female, 25 and blonde.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
    This is certainly true, but do we need every 18 year old to do that?

    A lot of businesses, there will certainly be one or two individuals who conduct those sort of meetings, but a lot of it will be done by a wider team who never meet their foreign counterparts, rather they are doing paperwork, answering emails, etc.

    And that is why I said there is certainly still a role for expert foreign language speakers, but I think that what we will be seeing is something far more sophisticated than Google Translate.
    Even then it still helps to get a more responsive service from a waiter abroad if you can speak their language properly
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,931

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    There's a lot of laziness in wine tasting reports. Riesling is often described as smelling of petrol. Now I've smelt petrol and I've smelt and tasted plenty of riesling and they couldn't be more different.
    As a red wine drinker, which tastes better?
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hah. Just showed the Poe Poems to a professional writer friend. A one word reaction

    “Fuck”

    That can be interpreted in (at least) two ways.
    I rightly interpreted it as meaning "Fuck, soon my art form - novel writing - will be taken over and ruined by the machines"

    This really is the end for most creative writers. If Claude can master advanced poetry and it can write amusing Seinfeld scripts, then it can do anything. And it will do anything, because better and better AIs are coming down the line

    The only human writing that will survive will be memoir, travel, human interest journalism. The direct human experience an AI cannot have
    We can have novel writing as a novel experience - check out this book, written by a 100% real life human!
    What's the guarantee of that? Unless you lock him in a Faraday cage with a manual typewriter. And in 10 years time he will have GPT20 installed in his head so that won't work.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    No history or science?
    In the workplace unless you want to teach or research history or work in a museum or be a scientist or doctor or engineer you don't need history or science day to day. They should be compulsory to 16 as any educated person should have some core knowledge of them but not beyond that.

    However most office and admin jobs today need effective English language and communication skills, core numeracy and IT.
    I agree re history. It is very interesting but not essential for most people, although a knowledge of recent history can be very useful. I don't agree re science. I am appalled by the lack of scientific knowledge of most people and how useful it can be.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2023
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    Google Translate already does live speech-to-speech translation, fast enough to enable a conversation between two people neither of whom know the other language. It’s not as good as a human live translator - but if you want to order dinner in a restaurant, rather than sign an international treaty or a corporate legal agreement, it’s more than good enough!
    Right, and its only going to get better. One big feature that these LLM are very good at are taking some talking points and returning a full integrated correspondence. Again, the slow part of these translate apps is having to put the full paragraph of what you want to say, rather than a quick overview. A trained LLM should be able to take a very brief comment e.g. table for 2, now, non-smoking....and turn it into a full paragraph....rather than typing in "I would like a table for 2 and I would like it immediately and it has to be in the non-smoking area"...click button.
  • .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    There's a lot of laziness in wine tasting reports. Riesling is often described as smelling of petrol. Now I've smelt petrol and I've smelt and tasted plenty of riesling and they couldn't be more different.
    And there's that tedious, literally, piss about sauv blanc.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,759

    I posed the question early about moving a business to Asia (and living there). It seems the only response I got was Singapore, is that really the only place in Asia safe to operate a business, some talent pool of tech savvy who speak English?

    Pretty much, yes.

    There’s the Dubai International Finance Centre free zone, which works under English law - if you’d count the sandpit as Asia - but with the demise of Hong Kong there’s only really Singapore left, or perhaps Australia.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388
    edited January 2023
    ydoethur said:

    It's amazing that angry unhinged rant of @ydoethur got nine likes.

    When I look at who it includes I'm not surprised by some of the names, but disappointed by others.

    It's very wrong of me to be angry that people spout nonsense.

    To give you some idea of how stupid their ideas are, they are the equivalent of somebody proposing to get Brunel's atmospheric railway out of retirement to power the Elizabeth Line and use HS2 rolling stock along with it.
    The problem is that because everyone has been to school, and everyone has direct experience of illness in themselves or close family, that everyone thinks themselves able to reorganise the Education or Healthcare of the land.

    I suppose that is what is meant by lived experience.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,116
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    Jeez. It’s been a long time. The quality late evening biz class flight, from wintry london to the tropical sun

    One of the minor but emphatic pleasures of life

    I will wake up in a place where it is 32C and sunny

    Mum and I flew business class from London to Kochi (Cochin) in mid-November, returned (also business class) Kochi to London in mid-December. Upgraded both times, over the counter outbound, and via an online "bid" coming back. Roughly an extra £550 for each of us on each leg.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    There's a lot of laziness in wine tasting reports. Riesling is often described as smelling of petrol. Now I've smelt petrol and I've smelt and tasted plenty of riesling and they couldn't be more different.
    As a red wine drinker, which tastes better?
    Has any petrol drinker ever tried Riesling to make the experiment?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    12-point plan from the TEC is below:

    1 A British Baccalaureate
    It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at 18, with parity in funding per pupil in both routes, and a slimmed-down set of exams at 16 to bring out the best in every child.

    2 ‘Electives premium’
    To be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport and a National Citizen Service experience for every pupil, with volunteering and outdoor pursuits to ensure that activities enjoyed by the most advantaged become available to all.

    3 New cadre of Career Academies
    Elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, mirroring the academic sixth forms and a new focus on creativity and entrepreneurialism in education to unleash the economic potential of Britain.

    4 Significant boost to early years funding
    The extra funding should be targeted at the most vulnerable. A unique pupil number would be given to every child from birth, to level the playing field before they get to school. Every primary school should have a library.

    5 Army of undergraduate tutors
    The students would earn credit towards their degrees by helping pupils who fall behind to catch up.

    6 Making the most of tech
    A laptop or tablet for every child, greater use of artificial intelligence in schools, colleges and universities to personalise learning, reduce teacher workload and prepare young people better for future employment.

    7 Wellbeing at the heart of education
    A counsellor should be placed in every school and an annual wellbeing survey of pupils carried out to encourage schools to actively build resilience rather than just support students once problems have arisen.

    8 Bring out the best in teaching
    Profession’s status and appeal would be increased with better career development, revalidation every 5 yrs & a new category of consultant teachers, promoted within the classroom, as well as a new teaching apprenticeship.

    9 A reformed Ofsted
    Ofsted should work collaboratively with schools to secure sustained improvement, and a new “report card” with a wider range of metrics including wellbeing, school culture, inclusion & attendance to unleash the potential of schools.

    10 Better training
    Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs, a greater focus should be placed on inclusion and a duty put on schools to remain accountable for the pupils they exclude to draw out the talent in every child.

    11 New university campuses
    New campuses should be created in 50 HE “cold spots”, including satellite wings in FE colleges. In addition, pay and conditions in FE sector should be improved and a transferrable credit system between universities and colleges created to boost stalled British productivity.

    12 A 15-year strategy
    Drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders & cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities.

    1) Bullshit. You can have qualifications as intense as A-level (whether they're rigorous is a different question, and I would argue the current ones are not) or you can have more of them. In Australia, for example, you do more subjects at 18 but they're much closer to GCSEs than A-levels in terms of assessment and content.

    2) What the fuck does that even mean? It's drivel.

    3) Those already exist, so why rebadge them? The key is not elitism. That's what's killed British (and I do mean British) education for centuries. We've always had good elite systems. Where we fall down is in doing a proper job for everyone else.

    4) No Shit Sherlocks. Unless you say how it's to be paid for, that's meaningless.

    5) Again, already happens on a modest scale. And it can't be expanded because there are lots of undergraduates you don't want near schoolchildren and would be as much use as Spielman in a classroom. How fucking ignorant are these people?

    6) Some university faculties have a staff student ratio of 1;46. Are they willing for a fourfold increase in uni funding? Tablets/laptops are a good idea but it's being blocked by the DfE for mostly spurious official reasons which are too long to list here but in reality because of cost.

    7) There already is. What planet are these fuckers on?

    8) These people don't have a fucking clue. Teachers already do extensive ANNUAL training due to performance related pay. Reaccrediting every five years is simply a way to keep a load of useless unemployable wankers at the DfE in work and add yet more work to teachers.

    9) OFSTED is a risk to children, because its head is ignoring safeguarding, possibly because she's stupid and possibly because she's arrogant. It was designed to bring teachers under the drink sodden retards of the DfE and is despised by teachers as a waste of time and effort. It needs abolishing not reforming.

    10) WE ALREADY FUCKING DO YOU USELESS DRUG ADDLED WANKERS. BETTER TRAINING WILL NOT CHANGE THAT BUT YOU SHUTTING YOUR USELESS STUPID PATRONISING MOUTHS MIGHT.

    11) what the fuck does this even mean? Name one county with no university. I can come up with Rutland and Northumberland. But after that I'm struggling. Even Hereford has one.

    12) sod strategies. What we need are useless wankers who think they are brilliant but are in fact thick to fuck off and stop meddling. Starting with the DfE and whatever drunken retards came up with this drivel.

    Honestly. Maybe the country's had enough of experts but I've left teaching partly because I'd had enough of ignorant stupid patronising wankers with small brains and smaller dicks telling me how to do my job despite knowing nothing about it.
    Feel better now?
    Why? Have you shot some of these idiots?
    Here is the list of commissioners on that review - it includes plenty of heads and teachers.

    Do you think they are all idiots?

    "Rachel Sylvester Chairwoman

    Sir Anthony Seldon Deputy chairman. Contemporary historian, former head of Brighton College and Wellington College and former vice-chancellor, University of Buckingham

    Geoff Barton General secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders

    Lord Bilimoria Founder of Cobra Beer, president of the CBI and chancellor of Birmingham University

    Sarah-Jayne Blakemore Professor of cognitive neuroscience at Cambridge University, who leads a group studying the adolescent brain and behaviour

    Sir Damon Buffini Permira founding partner, chairman of National Theatre and Cultural Recovery Fund Board

    Dame Sally Coates Director at United Learning, which runs 90 schools; author of review of education in prison

    Evelyn Forde Head of Copthall School in Barnet and winner of TES head of the year 2020

    Kiran Gill Founder of The Difference, which sends high-flying teachers to referral units and alternative provision schools

    Robert Halfon Tory MP for Harlow and chairman of Commons education select committee

    Lucy Heller Chief executive of Ark, an educational charity that runs schools

    Tristram Hunt Victoria & Albert Museum director, former Labour MP

    Lord Johnson of Marylebone Former
    universities minister, chairman of TES

    Paul Johnson Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies

    Lucy Kellaway Teacher at Mossbourne Community Academy in Hackney and co-founder of Now Teach

    Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho Chairwoman of WeTransfer, Open University chancellor, Lords Covid-19 select committee chairwoman

    Anne Longfield Former children’s commissioner for England

    Professor Heather McGregor Executive dean of Edinburgh Business School at Heriot-Watt University

    Amanda Melton Principal of Nelson and Colne FE college in Lancashire

    Sir Michael Morpurgo Author, poet and playwright, and former teacher"

    Shit. That's not any Appeal to Authority, it's an M&S Appeal to Authority. Never mind the names, look at the actual document. "Teachers should be trained to identify children who have special educational needs" is like saying "Chefs should be trained in the art of rendering foodstuffs more edible and/or palatable by the sustained application of heat."
    Those are the headline executive summaries in just one or two sentences. And I had to edit those just to get them to fit in the vanilla character limit.

    There is no credible reason to dismiss the report, unless you are a headbanger. The list of commissioners is venerable and the fact that all 10 previous education secretaries and several sitting/former PMs have welcomed its findings is impressive in itself.

    It is a very serious piece of work and deserves to be taken so - particularly as our education sector does lag our competitors.

    I will certainly be reading it in full (I am yet to do so) and coming to my own conclusions on the detailed findings, and look forward to it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,334
    Leon said:

    Jeez. It’s been a long time. The quality late evening biz class flight, from wintry london to the tropical sun

    One of the minor but emphatic pleasures of life

    I will wake up in a place where it is 32C and sunny

    I've never been on anything other than standard class on a plane.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
    This is certainly true, but do we need every 18 year old to do that?

    A lot of businesses, there will certainly be one or two individuals who conduct those sort of meetings, but a lot of it will be done by a wider team who never meet their foreign counterparts, rather they are doing paperwork, answering emails, etc.

    And that is why I said there is certainly still a role for expert foreign language speakers, but I think that what we will be seeing is something far more sophisticated than Google Translate.
    Even then it still helps to get a more responsive service from a waiter abroad if you can speak their language properly
    I wouldn't have had you down as a foreign language advocate, so I do applaud that. But your example begs the question how many languages should be taught until 18, and which ones?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,453
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Jeez. It’s been a long time. The quality late evening biz class flight, from wintry london to the tropical sun

    One of the minor but emphatic pleasures of life

    I will wake up in a place where it is 32C and sunny

    I've never been on anything other than standard class on a plane.
    Just occasionally it is worth the money. Getting out of london in winter is one of those times
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    ydoethur said:

    .

    TimS said:

    A lot of mid range wine tasting is just more descriptive version of what people smell and taste. It’s a skill but one I think AI could master quite easily.

    For example, take a Rhône white dominated by Grenache Blanc, Viognier and Marsanne. You could say:

    - Neutral slightly fruity smell
    - Rich rounded taste
    - A bit like Chardonnay but more spicy

    Or you could say:

    - Generous nose, beeswax and stone fruits, hints of toasted nuts
    - Peach and lychee on the palate, a hint of cardamom, masala chai

    An AI could do that I think.

    Just read tasting notes on a prob rather ordinary Chilean pinot noir which said hint of mulberry. WTF knows what a mulberry tastes like? I do because I have a mulberry tree, but I bet the author didn't, nor over .001% of his intended audience.
    It really doesn't matter what words they use to describe the taste, provided they are consistent and you drink wine often enough to pick up the lingo. Taste a red wine that says hint of mulberry and compare to a red wine that says notes of cherry, and eventually you should pick up the difference.

    I don't drink enough wine to build up my experience, but I'm doing quite well on darker beers.

    Every field of specialism is impenetrable to an outsider, and I guess wine-tasting is a specialism. The problem comes if it's all made up, and so inconsistent - but I would need to drink more wine to come to any conclusions. I'll pencil it for the 2030s.
    I am specialised enough to conclude this guy was being a twat. I do find, though, that wine tastes of wine, not berries or pencil shavings.
    Wine is remarkable in its complexity - the sugars, yeasts, tannins in the grape skins, esters from fermentation, vanillins from ageing in oak - it does have the ability to echo all sorts of other flavours and aromas. You try to pinpoint these as much as possible. So if you discern an 'earthy' aroma, is it minerally, mushroomy, or farmyardy? If it's farmyardy, that's when you might say it smells like a Jersey cow-shed, because you're tying it to something you remember, and hoping that others remember and can identify with.
    So what about this biscuity champagne we hear about? Good thing there's only one sort of biscuit, or if more they all taste much the same.
    There's a lot of laziness in wine tasting reports. Riesling is often described as smelling of petrol. Now I've smelt petrol and I've smelt and tasted plenty of riesling and they couldn't be more different.
    As a red wine drinker, which tastes better?
    Has any petrol drinker ever tried Riesling to make the experiment?
    Anyone who's ever had to siphon a petrol tank without a clear hose will know that petrol drinking is unlikely to be a 'big thing'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,453

    Leon said:

    Jeez. It’s been a long time. The quality late evening biz class flight, from wintry london to the tropical sun

    One of the minor but emphatic pleasures of life

    I will wake up in a place where it is 32C and sunny

    Mum and I flew business class from London to Kochi (Cochin) in mid-November, returned (also business class) Kochi to London in mid-December. Upgraded both times, over the counter outbound, and via an online "bid" coming back. Roughly an extra £550 for each of us on each leg.
    That’s an amazing bargain. Well done!

    I am actually thinking of flying back via Kochi. It sounds enticing. Never been. Exotic and storied
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
    This is certainly true, but do we need every 18 year old to do that?

    A lot of businesses, there will certainly be one or two individuals who conduct those sort of meetings, but a lot of it will be done by a wider team who never meet their foreign counterparts, rather they are doing paperwork, answering emails, etc.

    And that is why I said there is certainly still a role for expert foreign language speakers, but I think that what we will be seeing is something far more sophisticated than Google Translate.
    Even then it still helps to get a more responsive service from a waiter abroad if you can speak their language properly
    It is of huge regret to me that I have never learnt a foreign language. It would have been a lot more useful than much of what I learnt at school.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Certainly there is a strong case for Maths to 18, just add English language, IT and a foreign language too

    Although I feel that in general the UK is very poor at foreign languages, what is the rationale for it up to 18, especially when we know AI is already pretty good at least basic translation and I think it is a task that AI is only going to get much better at*.

    * there will still be a need at the very high end for expert translators, where there needs to be knowledge of culture nuance or very subject specialist knowledge, but I think in terms of writing / reading emails for business, these AI systems are going to be excellent at being able to do this in the very near future. It will be give it the basic outline of your talking points, and it will do a very good job of constructing the text (certainly better than somebody who has only studied to 18 and nothing more).
    As dealing with foreign clients you will impress them more if you can speak their language as well as they speak yours without having to use Google translate
    This is certainly true, but do we need every 18 year old to do that?

    A lot of businesses, there will certainly be one or two individuals who conduct those sort of meetings, but a lot of it will be done by a wider team who never meet their foreign counterparts, rather they are doing paperwork, answering emails, etc.

    And that is why I said there is certainly still a role for expert foreign language speakers, but I think that what we will be seeing is something far more sophisticated than Google Translate.
    Even then it still helps to get a more responsive service from a waiter abroad if you can speak their language properly
    I wouldn't have had you down as a foreign language advocate, so I do applaud that. But your example begs the question how many languages should be taught until 18, and which ones?
    I would allow students to choose one of French, German, Spanish or Mandarin
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,168
    ydoethur said:

    It's amazing that angry unhinged rant of @ydoethur got nine likes.

    When I look at who it includes I'm not surprised by some of the names, but disappointed by others.

    It's very wrong of me to be angry that people spout nonsense.

    To give you some idea of how stupid their ideas are, they are the equivalent of somebody proposing to get Brunel's atmospheric railway out of retirement to power the Elizabeth Line and use HS2 rolling stock along with it.
    Unfortunately, and I'm not saying this to be rude, I no longer really listen to what you say about education and the education sector because of rants and caricatures like this; for comparison, I do very much listen to Foxy on health.

    You need to have a more considered answer than everyone in the DfE and Ofsted is an idiot and just let the teachers teach and give them the resources to do it - even if there might be a kernel of truth in it.

    Anyway, I have to go to settle the children.

    Goodnight.
This discussion has been closed.