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Finally at the 15th attempt a House Speaker is elected – politicalbetting.com

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Are there any worth going to if you don't ski or best to just find a nice non skiing area.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine's Cabinet has terminated Russia-Ukraine intergovt agreement on the extension of the operation of the 15P118M missile systems (R-36 family of ICBMs) signed in 2006 under which Dnipro-based developer & manufacturer used to service the Russian ICBMs
    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1611705459433431041

    Probably one of the more predictable consequences of the war.
    There’s an awful lot of Russian military kit, including jet engines and rocket motors, that are of Ukranian origin. That’s an awful lot of kit which will be quickly rendered unserviceable, as parts and expertise are no longer available to maintain it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Phenomenal amount of red tape to go through to start doing my job on Monday.
    The job I've been doing since September.
    No change in status, but am uploading my qualifications, proofs of right to work, safeguarding certificate, signed photo, references, recent bank statement, DBS, ID, bank details, CV, work history amongst others, for the fourth time in four months.
    Tedious.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, I begin to wonder if all the hoops HR insist are required actually are required. At least quite so many times.
    They aren't. There are two issues:

    1) There are entire industries (HR and Safeguarding in particular) with lucrative careers dedicated to expertly blurring the lines, for busy people with better things to do, between what the law requires and what HR/Safeguarding protocols require.

    2) Bosses who are not HR and Safeguarding mostly don't dare challenge these 'experts' because they only have to appear wrong once (when they accidentally employ Herod the Great to manage the creche) and they are demolished.

    If something stupid is done and the protocols are correct you will escape, even if it was obviously stupid.

    And finally, the world is full of lovely people who say "It's terribly complicated and awful but if it only saves one child from......".

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Wind generation up to 16.7gw now, limbering up for a crack at the all time record later.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Leon said:

    This is incredible. Prince Andrew’s $12m deal with Virginia Underage bought him… just one year of silence. The year expires in February


    Why Virginia Underage? On her own testimony, she wasn't underage. Her claimed three encounters with Andrew all took place when she was 17 in jurisdictions where that was (and is) over the age of consent.
    She was shipped there for that purpose so illegal. Hard to believe anyone would try to defend the creep.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Nibbles are served at the Eden Roc, Ascona. An aperitif awaits at Castello del Sole. Oh god I want to live in Italian-speaking Switzerland







  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/w1/6rzexw31hjbl.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/15/26re35etdrlt.jpeg" alt="" />

    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That’s nuts. I stayed at an all-inclusive in the Maldives for £800 a night, for a honeymoon water villa.

    That said, the fanciest hotels in London are the same price for a standard room B&B, at least they were in December when I looked.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,836
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Your pound coins don't stretch too far nowadays sadly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    This is incredible. Prince Andrew’s $12m deal with Virginia Underage bought him… just one year of silence. The year expires in February


    Why Virginia Underage? On her own testimony, she wasn't underage. Her claimed three encounters with Andrew all took place when she was 17 in jurisdictions where that was (and is) over the age of consent.
    She was shipped there for that purpose so illegal. Hard to believe anyone would try to defend the creep.
    It would be a crime either way on that basis, but it is important to know what crimes exactly. That's one way creeps blur the lines, if they are accused of details which are not true it is easier to divert from parts that might be true.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Leon said:

    This is incredible. Prince Andrew’s $12m deal with Virginia Underage bought him… just one year of silence. The year expires in February


    Why Virginia Underage? On her own testimony, she wasn't underage. Her claimed three encounters with Andrew all took place when she was 17 in jurisdictions where that was (and is) over the age of consent.
    Imagine stanning for Andrew.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/w1/6rzexw31hjbl.jpeg" alt="" />
    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/15/26re35etdrlt.jpeg" alt="" />

    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That’s nuts. I stayed at an all-inclusive in the Maldives for £800 a night, for a honeymoon water villa.

    That said, the fanciest hotels in London are the same price for a standard room B&B, at least they were in December when I looked.
    Do you want to hear my most-ridiculous-hotel-room-ever story?

    Ok. Here it is. I might have told it before, but heck, it’s good

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Conservatism is also an ideology as much as socialism is in its purest form
    I’m not sure many conservatives on here might agree with you on that. They argue that conservatism is all about skeptical pragmatism.
    Conservativism is social conservativism mixed with support for a small state and in the UK support for the monarchy too.

    There are skeptical pragmatists in Labour as well as the Tories
    So basically conservativism is defined by whatever you happen to believe is it? And what about conservatism? Or is that something completely different?
    No that is conservatism the world over ie support for a small state and social conservativism, adapted as may be by the times.

    Toryism just adds on support for the monarchy, established church etc
    If conservatism is about support for a small state, then I think it's fair to point out that all postwar conservative governments have been a dismal failure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Conservatism is also an ideology as much as socialism is in its purest form
    I’m not sure many conservatives on here might agree with you on that. They argue that conservatism is all about skeptical pragmatism.
    Conservativism is social conservativism mixed with support for a small state and in the UK support for the monarchy too.

    There are skeptical pragmatists in Labour as well as the Tories
    I can buy pragmatic conservatives, but if it goes beyond that conservatism is all about finding elaborate ways to justify walking by on the other side and defending established power. Might is right. That’s why I could never be a conservative.
    There are many different definitions or versions of conservatism.

    The one I have some sympathy with is the temperament which believes in preserving existing institutions unless it can be shown that there is a better replacement - as opposed to just tearing stuff down and seeing what happens next.
    That’s why the Brexit project was, in those terms, a profoundly unconservative one.
    There could have been a conservative case for Brexit, but it was never made.

    An ideological belief in small state / monarchy stuff (as displayed by HYUFD) is irrelevant to that form of conservatism.
    No it isn't, it is opposed to republicanism and socialism tearing down monarchy and eroding private property and free enterprise by definition
    Your personal definition.
    As I said, there are many forms of conservatism. That you regard yourself as some kind of ideological purist is, in itself, profoundly unconservative.
    In one important way, he's right. The one thing all Conservatives have been able to agree on- whether it's Heath or Howard, Major or Truss- is that we don't like Socialism. Pretty much everything else is negotiable.
    Well that's certainly true.
    It's an opposing ideology.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited January 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Conservatism is also an ideology as much as socialism is in its purest form
    I’m not sure many conservatives on here might agree with you on that. They argue that conservatism is all about skeptical pragmatism.
    Conservativism is social conservativism mixed with support for a small state and in the UK support for the monarchy too.

    There are skeptical pragmatists in Labour as well as the Tories
    So basically conservativism is defined by whatever you happen to believe is it? And what about conservatism? Or is that something completely different?
    No that is conservatism the world over ie support for a small state and social conservativism, adapted as may be by the times.

    Toryism just adds on support for the monarchy, established church etc
    If conservatism is about support for a small state, then I think it's fair to point out that all postwar conservative governments have been a dismal failure.
    It seems to be all about a small state for deserving people like myself.
    A lot of bureaucracy for untrustworthy people not like me. Just to be on the safe side.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Betting Post. 🐎 Horse Racing!

    1.15 Sandown - Certainly Red
    1.30 Wincanton - Galahad Quest
    2.25 Sandown - Arctic Bresil
    15.00 Sandown - Snow Leopardess
    😍 Snow Leopardess. Next time she wins I’m on her

    Nice one on Certainly Red, 9/1
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Ticino is pretty close to paradise.

    I had my 17th birthday dinner at the Eden Roc.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    I don’t think Biden has much to fear from the House for the next two years. McCarthy can’t control his caucus and there must be a question mark about how long he’ll survive before they try and force him out.

    Biden is a lucky general. His chances for 2024 keep getting better.

    The other thing this process has demonstrated is that the Democrats, in contrast, are united and up for this. They turned out 212 or 211 votes 15 times. That was yet another warning to McCarthy. He has a tiny majority which is entirely made up of people who cannot bring themselves to vote for him and he faces an opposition that will not be giving him free ride.

    McCarthy will really struggle to get his bills through. If he goes loony right he will lose support from the only part insane. If he goes bland he loses the nutters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    edited January 2023
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Ticino is pretty close to paradise.

    I had my 17th birthday dinner at the Eden Roc.
    What a brilliant place to have a birthday dinner

    Agree on Ticino. If money was not an issue and I could take 8 friends with me and I could choose any place to retire, it might well be Ticino. Swiss luxury and safety with Italian grace, charm and food. Omg

    I guess it could be boring... but that weird corner of Switzerland is quite sexy and bohemian as well. Nude sunbathing was “invented” there

    The little islands in the lake - Brissago - have a raunchy history. Paradise indeed
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    malcolmg said:

    Betting Post. 🐎 Horse Racing!

    1.15 Sandown - Certainly Red
    1.30 Wincanton - Galahad Quest
    2.25 Sandown - Arctic Bresil
    15.00 Sandown - Snow Leopardess
    😍 Snow Leopardess. Next time she wins I’m on her

    Nice one on Certainly Red, 9/1
    Thank you. 🥰. Beaten into second in my second race though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Because if everyone lived there...
    Thought you saw immigration as a dangerous experiment?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited January 2023
    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Are there any worth going to if you don't ski or best to just find a nice non skiing area.
    Not an expert I'm afraid, but I assume most of the ski resorts are good for walking and mountain biking and with the use of the lifts very handy. On one of our trips to Kaprun for summer skiing there was a Harley Davidson festival going on. Bikes from all over Europe. It was fantastic. Bands on every night. A real bonus. They did a parade around the town.

    PS If you like spas then Austrian resorts are good. I'll try and remember an excellent one we went to.

    Got it, Bad Hofgestein. It is amazing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    kjh said:

    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Are there any worth going to if you don't ski or best to just find a nice non skiing area.
    Not an expert I'm afraid, but I assume most of the ski resorts are good for walking and mountain biking and with the use of the lifts very handy. On one of our trips to Kaprun for summer skiing there was a Harley Davidson festival going on. Bikes from all over Europe. It was fantastic. Bands on every night. A real bonus. They did a parade around the town.
    Travel tip: ski resorts are often fantastic value in summer. They have so much accommodation they basically give it away. And they tend to be in gorgeous mountain locations with lots to do in the sun

    Downside is that the really cheap ones are the ugly concrete ones. Of course. But if you can overcome aesthetic distaste you can have a brilliant budget holiday
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Dundee, or at least just outside it where I live, is surrounded by delightful woods, low lying hills and great views of a very fine river. It is big enough to have some decent restaurants but also small enough to walk around the city centre without any problems. It is within commuting distance of my work and all the other Scottish cities are readily accessible. Within 45 minutes drive of Dundee there are places where you can walk in the hills and meet no one all day if that is what you fancy. It has a pleasant, if slightly damp, climate. I don't have any problem with places like Lugano for holidays but I am very content actually living here.
    Hah! I thought of you when I wrote “Dundee”

    I was teasing of course. And you make an eloquent
    defence
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That does look rather impressive. I have to say that I prefer to stay in a nice small hotel or B&B these days as you aren't in the hotel long enough and are asleep much of the time you are there and I prefer some character as well. Probably because I spent a lot of time in city hotels when working. Might like to give that one ago though as long as I am not paying.

    I did have an interesting stay in Bratislava once. I was asked to give a presentation by a company to set up a new pressure group for their pharmaceutical customers. They were paying for my room, but I am sure they would not have booked anything special for me, but I did notice that the title they had given me was rather grand and can only assume there had been some mix up.

    My suite had a bar (all free), office(with all the IT you could imagine), lounge, cloakroom(for your cloaks, I mean a whole room!), an enormous patio with sun loungers and tables, etc, and of course bedroom and bathroom which is all I was expecting. I couldn't have actually been in it for more than 5 or 6 hours.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Why live in a dump like London when you can live in Lugano. I would go Lugano then Dundee, know nothing of Rochdale. However I am amazed you did not use your AI friend to tell you that the reason which any idiot would know is MONEY.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    edited January 2023
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That does look rather impressive. I have to say that I prefer to stay in a nice small hotel or B&B these days as you aren't in the hotel long enough and are asleep much of the time you are there and I prefer some character as well. Probably because I spent a lot of time in city hotels when working. Might like to give that one ago though as long as I am not paying.

    I did have an interesting stay in Bratislava once. I was asked to give a presentation by a company to set up a new pressure group for their pharmaceutical customers. They were paying for my room, but I am sure they would not have booked anything special for me, but I did notice that the title they had given me was rather grand and can only assume there had been some mix up.

    My suite had a bar (all free), office(with all the IT you could imagine), lounge, cloakroom(for your cloaks, I mean a whole room!), an enormous patio with sun loungers and tables, etc, and of course bedroom and bathroom which is all I was expecting. I couldn't have actually been in it for more than 5 or 6 hours.
    I hear you. In my Knappers Gazette job I am sometimes given enormous suites - which are all very nice but if you are travelling alone they can be quite echoey and isolating. Depressing even

    I once had a suite with five khazis and I managed to use them all in 3 days

    I do love the journalists’ free wine and nibbles, tho. God I love those. Castello del Sole:



  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That does look rather impressive. I have to say that I prefer to stay in a nice small hotel or B&B these days as you aren't in the hotel long enough and are asleep much of the time you are there and I prefer some character as well. Probably because I spent a lot of time in city hotels when working. Might like to give that one ago though as long as I am not paying.

    I did have an interesting stay in Bratislava once. I was asked to give a presentation by a company to set up a new pressure group for their pharmaceutical customers. They were paying for my room, but I am sure they would not have booked anything special for me, but I did notice that the title they had given me was rather grand and can only assume there had been some mix up.

    My suite had a bar (all free), office(with all the IT you could imagine), lounge, cloakroom(for your cloaks, I mean a whole room!), an enormous patio with sun loungers and tables, etc, and of course bedroom and bathroom which is all I was expecting. I couldn't have actually been in it for more than 5 or 6 hours.
    I thought Bratislva was brilliant , same with Brno. Nicer than many of the crowded hotspots.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Why live in a dump like London when you can live in Lugano. I would go Lugano then Dundee, know nothing of Rochdale. However I am amazed you did not use your AI friend to tell you that the reason which any idiot would know is MONEY.
    Malc, I was joking
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Ticino is pretty close to paradise.

    I had my 17th birthday dinner at the Eden Roc.
    Looks brilliant, I am going to Lake Como in early June. Looking forward to it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Why live in a dump like London when you can live in Lugano. I would go Lugano then Dundee, know nothing of Rochdale. However I am amazed you did not use your AI friend to tell you that the reason which any idiot would know is MONEY.
    Malc, I was joking
    I know , so was I.
  • For the new Speaker of the House of Representatives, Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Bakerfield)

    Streets of Bakerfield - Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7oUI32E1Y

    STREETS OF BAKERSFIELD
    Homer Joy

    I came here looking for something
    I couldn't find anywhere else
    Hey, I'm not tryin' to be nobody
    I just wanna change to be myself

    I've spent a thousand miles of thumbin'
    Yes, I've worn blisters on my heels
    Trying to find me something better
    Here on the streets of Bakersfield

    Hey, you don't know me, but you don't like me
    Say you care less how I feel
    But how many of you have sit and judged me
    Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

    . . . .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Ticino is pretty close to paradise.

    I had my 17th birthday dinner at the Eden Roc.
    Looks brilliant, I am going to Lake Como in early June. Looking forward to it.
    The Italian lakes are ravishingly beautiful. The Romans were aware of that in 100BC. The poet Catullus had a holiday home in Sirmione on Lake Garda. Sadly overrun with tourists now
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Well, they're less likely to bump into you in Rochdale or Dundee... ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Why live in a dump like London when you can live in Lugano. I would go Lugano then Dundee, know nothing of Rochdale. However I am amazed you did not use your AI friend to tell you that the reason which any idiot would know is MONEY.
    Malc, I was joking
    Be nice to have the cash to retire there for sure.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    Sterility gets more appealing as I age
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.


    That part of the Dolomites, south of Ortisei, is great for summer walking too.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    Sterility gets more appealing as I age
    You’d go crazy within a month. There’s only much nice you can take.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    Sterility gets more appealing as I age
    You’d go crazy within a month. There’s only much nice you can take.
    The younger me, yes. Now I just want to read good books and look at pretty things - human and inhuman - and sit in the sun with some nice pasta
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Nigelb said:

    Finland to hand Ukraine Leopard 2 tanks if Europe makes such decision

    Chairman of the Committee on Defense Affairs, Antti Häkkänen, said Finland should transfer Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine if a relevant decision is taken in Europe at a wider level

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1611656389079834626

    It is becoming increasingly clear where the block to sending MBTs to Ukraine is.

    Given Bidens comments about not breaking NATO by the US going forward unilaterally….

    Looking at you, Scholz.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Your pound coins don't stretch too far nowadays sadly.
    Because the idiot went and voted for Brexit….
  • For the new Speaker of the House of Representatives, Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Bakerfield)

    Streets of Bakerfield - Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7oUI32E1Y

    STREETS OF BAKERSFIELD
    Homer Joy

    I came here looking for something
    I couldn't find anywhere else
    Hey, I'm not tryin' to be nobody
    I just wanna change to be myself

    I've spent a thousand miles of thumbin'
    Yes, I've worn blisters on my heels
    Trying to find me something better
    Here on the streets of Bakersfield

    Hey, you don't know me, but you don't like me
    Say you care less how I feel
    But how many of you have sit and judged me
    Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

    . . . .

    For some strange reason, left the "s" out of BakerSfield - twice!

    BTW (and FYI) this is a classic song of the Okies: Woodie Guthrie's people, as immortalized in "Grapes of Wrath" who migrated to the San Joaquin Valley of California during the Great Depression.

    The accordion in this version & who tempo being a tribute to the Mexicans who migrated to the Valley after the Okies, to pick the crops that feed America.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited January 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Finland to hand Ukraine Leopard 2 tanks if Europe makes such decision

    Chairman of the Committee on Defense Affairs, Antti Häkkänen, said Finland should transfer Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine if a relevant decision is taken in Europe at a wider level

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1611656389079834626

    It is becoming increasingly clear where the block to sending MBTs to Ukraine is.

    Given Bidens comments about not breaking NATO by the US going forward unilaterally….

    Looking at you, Scholz.
    Well, the last time they moved a load of tanks to Ukraine things didn't go so well so you can't blame them for being apprehensive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited January 2023
    Leon said:

    Why do people live in Rochdale or Dundee when you can live in Lugano? Mad

    Because humans are wired to feel nostalgia for the places they grew up, or where they lived during early adulthood. Otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to spread across the entire planet. Remarkable though it may seem, some people even think that living in litter- and graffiti- and crime-ridden Camden Town is a pleasant experience.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That does look rather impressive. I have to say that I prefer to stay in a nice small hotel or B&B these days as you aren't in the hotel long enough and are asleep much of the time you are there and I prefer some character as well. Probably because I spent a lot of time in city hotels when working. Might like to give that one ago though as long as I am not paying.

    I did have an interesting stay in Bratislava once. I was asked to give a presentation by a company to set up a new pressure group for their pharmaceutical customers. They were paying for my room, but I am sure they would not have booked anything special for me, but I did notice that the title they had given me was rather grand and can only assume there had been some mix up.

    My suite had a bar (all free), office(with all the IT you could imagine), lounge, cloakroom(for your cloaks, I mean a whole room!), an enormous patio with sun loungers and tables, etc, and of course bedroom and bathroom which is all I was expecting. I couldn't have actually been in it for more than 5 or 6 hours.
    I hear you. In my Knappers Gazette job I am sometimes given enormous suites - which are all very nice but if you are travelling alone they can be quite echoey and isolating. Depressing even

    I once had a suite with five khazis and I managed to use them all in 3 days

    I do love the journalists’ free wine and nibbles, tho. God I love those. Castello del Sole:



    I read your post and then mine again and they made me laugh. People complaining that they have got too much. I mean which of my yachts will I use this weekend.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    Sterility gets more appealing as I age
    Embrace your inner Meldrew
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    That does look rather impressive. I have to say that I prefer to stay in a nice small hotel or B&B these days as you aren't in the hotel long enough and are asleep much of the time you are there and I prefer some character as well. Probably because I spent a lot of time in city hotels when working. Might like to give that one ago though as long as I am not paying.

    I did have an interesting stay in Bratislava once. I was asked to give a presentation by a company to set up a new pressure group for their pharmaceutical customers. They were paying for my room, but I am sure they would not have booked anything special for me, but I did notice that the title they had given me was rather grand and can only assume there had been some mix up.

    My suite had a bar (all free), office(with all the IT you could imagine), lounge, cloakroom(for your cloaks, I mean a whole room!), an enormous patio with sun loungers and tables, etc, and of course bedroom and bathroom which is all I was expecting. I couldn't have actually been in it for more than 5 or 6 hours.
    I hear you. In my Knappers Gazette job I am sometimes given enormous suites - which are all very nice but if you are travelling alone they can be quite echoey and isolating. Depressing even

    I once had a suite with five khazis and I managed to use them all in 3 days

    I do love the journalists’ free wine and nibbles, tho. God I love those. Castello del Sole:



    I read your post and then mine again and they made me laugh. People complaining that they have got too much. I mean which of my yachts will I use this weekend.
    I think people both underestimate and overestimate the impact of money. If you don't have it, a moderate amount of money is critical to feel emotionally stable and ward off a life of fear and uncertainty. But I would much rather have a middle class life with a happy marriage and kids than a billionaire lifestyle with no lasting romantic relationship.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    I spent a Christmas in Geneva many years ago. Spent quite a bit of time sat on a cold park bench watching the drizzle over the lake with my friend saying "We've gone on holiday by mistake.."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited January 2023
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Finland to hand Ukraine Leopard 2 tanks if Europe makes such decision

    Chairman of the Committee on Defense Affairs, Antti Häkkänen, said Finland should transfer Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine if a relevant decision is taken in Europe at a wider level

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1611656389079834626

    It is becoming increasingly clear where the block to sending MBTs to Ukraine is.

    Given Bidens comments about not breaking NATO by the US going forward unilaterally….

    Looking at you, Scholz.
    Well, the last time they moved a load of tanks to Ukraine things didn't go so well so you can't blame them for being apprehensive.
    IIRC some German soldiers got into trouble in Afghanistan by wearing T-shirts saying “Grandfather didn’t get this far”.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Conservatism is also an ideology as much as socialism is in its purest form
    I’m not sure many conservatives on here might agree with you on that. They argue that conservatism is all about skeptical pragmatism.
    Conservativism is social conservativism mixed with support for a small state and in the UK support for the monarchy too.

    There are skeptical pragmatists in Labour as well as the Tories
    So basically conservativism is defined by whatever you happen to believe is it? And what about conservatism? Or is that something completely different?
    No that is conservatism the world over ie support for a small state and social conservativism, adapted as may be by the times.

    Toryism just adds on support for the monarchy, established church etc
    If conservatism is about support for a small state, then I think it's fair to point out that all postwar conservative governments have been a dismal failure.
    Relative to their Labour predecessor governments they almost all left the state smaller, Thatcher's and Cameron's especially so
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Conservatism is also an ideology as much as socialism is in its purest form
    I’m not sure many conservatives on here might agree with you on that. They argue that conservatism is all about skeptical pragmatism.
    Conservativism is social conservativism mixed with support for a small state and in the UK support for the monarchy too.

    There are skeptical pragmatists in Labour as well as the Tories
    I can buy pragmatic conservatives, but if it goes beyond that conservatism is all about finding elaborate ways to justify walking by on the other side and defending established power. Might is right. That’s why I could never be a conservative.
    There are many different definitions or versions of conservatism.

    The one I have some sympathy with is the temperament which believes in preserving existing institutions unless it can be shown that there is a better replacement - as opposed to just tearing stuff down and seeing what happens next.
    That’s why the Brexit project was, in those terms, a profoundly unconservative one.
    There could have been a conservative case for Brexit, but it was never made.

    An ideological belief in small state / monarchy stuff (as displayed by HYUFD) is irrelevant to that form of conservatism.
    No it isn't, it is opposed to republicanism and socialism tearing down monarchy and eroding private property and free enterprise by definition
    You are a Socialist because you voted REMAIN!
    No support for state control of most of the economy is socialist, Tony Benn and George Galloway were anti EU, Cameron led the Remain campaign
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    @Eabhal Fpt. I note you say you have never skied in Europe, but obviously ski in Scotland quite a bit. I think you will find Europe is for softies and have a whale of a time if you give it a go. Great slopes in France, but most decent resorts are concrete jungles and much skiing is above the tree line so not as pretty as elsewhere. Austria is great, but avoid the small resorts if you are a decent skier. One of my favourites is the Sella Ronda in Italy. Prettier than France, 800 odd km of runs I believe and all accessible as most are on a loop. I think the loop is 37 km from memory and many alternatives for doing it.

    Most ski resorts are oppressively ugly. I’m not quite sure why. Maybe they think looks don’t matter because, snow

    When the last snow melts all these hideous ski towns will be stranded: like hideous gasping fish from a dying lake
    France is very ugly. The rest not so much, although my experience is limited as I haven't been to most out of season other than Austria glacier skiing in the summer.

    I'm guessing because the snowline is much higher in France than the rest of Europe, so there are few villages at the good skiing level, so the decent resorts are purpose built and crammed in concrete blocks to keep the price down. They are awful. Elsewhere decent skiing can start at village/town level so they aren't as bad and you also get trees, unlike France where you have to ski lower to get tree lined routes. Compare Avoriaz to Morzine. Same resort. Avoriaz is ghastly, Morzine nicer, but if the snow is dodgy you want to be in Avoriaz or it is long queues for the lift.

    Also hence my previous comment on getting to these resorts. In France you need a transfer because trains do not go to the resorts, in Austria you can just pop onto a cheap train. Another comment on price also is that with Whitsun skiing you can get off peak passes and ski hire.
    Italian and Spanish ski towns can be fugly, as well. Timing must be something to do with it. Skiing boomed in the 60s-70s when a lot of architecture was dire
    Never skied in Spain. My Italian skiing is limited to umpteen resorts in the Sella Ronda that from memory all seemed nice. My Italian Alps skiing is limited to skiing over the top from France or Switzerland so i haven't got into the heart of resorts properly, but I can imagine they might be dire. I'm struggling to think of what Swiss resorts look like.
    Expensive
    Switzerland can be done quite cheaply with a bit of effort. I did Zermatt during school holidays. Cheap flight, train to the resort and 6 of us in a 1 bed apartment (4 in the living room). I did Mark Warner to Verbier outside of school holidays. Can't remember what it cost and it won't have been cheap, but got a massive discount by booking at the last moment.
    Switzerland is so expensive it’s just not fun. Unless you are on a total freebie

    I went on such a freebie in summer 2021. To Ticino

    I stayed in some RIDICULOUSLY exquisite resorts






    In the second resort (Eden Roc, Ascona) the manager told me my room cost £800 a night and “average Swiss families will pay that”
    Your pound coins don't stretch too far nowadays sadly.
    Because the idiot went and voted for Brexit….
    I went to Switzerland a decade again and back then a Big Mac meal cost about £15. So "nowadays" is rather missing the point.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Rishi Sunak considered union ban for thousands of key staff – leaked emails https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/07/rishi-sunak-union-ban-key-staff-leaked-emails
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    This? Oh, this is just some random chefs who prepared my nibbles on a Gazette Trip to the Margaret River in Western Australia in 2018


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    ohnotnow said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    I spent a Christmas in Geneva many years ago. Spent quite a bit of time sat on a cold park bench watching the drizzle over the lake with my friend saying "We've gone on holiday by mistake.."
    How was your Uncle Monty ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    edited January 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    Trains always on time, very high average income, low tax but still excellent public services, beautiful mountains and lakes and scenery, good food and drink, Geneva and Zurich. Switzerland is probably one of the best places in the world to live, being a bit dull is a tiny downside
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    ohnotnow said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    I spent a Christmas in Geneva many years ago. Spent quite a bit of time sat on a cold park bench watching the drizzle over the lake with my friend saying "We've gone on holiday by mistake.."
    Geneva is easy to dislike. It combines Swiss froideur, smugness and fussiness with French arrogance and churlishness

    Weirdly, Zurich is much sassier (tho it is not New Orleans). The Italian bit is deffo the best
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Taz said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    I spent a Christmas in Geneva many years ago. Spent quite a bit of time sat on a cold park bench watching the drizzle over the lake with my friend saying "We've gone on holiday by mistake.."
    How was your Uncle Monty ?
    Tsk!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Here's the kind of skiing most of you should be doing: "Cross-country skiing is a form of skiing where skiers rely on their own locomotion to move across snow-covered terrain, rather than using ski lifts or other forms of assistance. Cross-country skiing is widely practiced as a sport and recreational activity; however, some still use it as a means of transportation. Variants of cross-country skiing are adapted to a range of terrain which spans unimproved, sometimes mountainous terrain to groomed courses that are specifically designed for the sport."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing

    It's much less expensive than downhill skiing, can be done many more places, is less likely to result in serious injury, and is about as good an exercise as there is. (I've read that it beats even swimming for oxygen uptake.)

    Conservatives should like it because it is closest to the original kind of skiing; leftists should like it because it isn't a luxury sport for the wealthy.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Jonathan said:

    Visited Switzerland a plenty. Utterly sterile. Friends that live there agree. Have to come to London to escape.

    I spent a Christmas in Geneva many years ago. Spent quite a bit of time sat on a cold park bench watching the drizzle over the lake with my friend saying "We've gone on holiday by mistake.."
    Geneva is easy to dislike. It combines Swiss froideur, smugness and fussiness with French arrogance and churlishness

    Weirdly, Zurich is much sassier (tho it is not New Orleans). The Italian bit is deffo the best
    I did have some very nice Japanese food there. I was fussed over and spoiled by the owner as she spotted I had a (subtle!) 'Hello Kitty' bag with me. When she saw it she rushed over in a flurry of smiles and exuberant 'Hello Kitty!!!!! Ohhhh!!!'. Kept pointing out recommendations from the menu and, I think, making sure the chef's gave me a bit extra.

    I went there quite a few times for dinner. And normally I don't like being fussed over by Japanese women with a love of food and gorgeous smiles. But I made an exception...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    Here's the kind of skiing most of you should be doing: "Cross-country skiing is a form of skiing where skiers rely on their own locomotion to move across snow-covered terrain, rather than using ski lifts or other forms of assistance. Cross-country skiing is widely practiced as a sport and recreational activity; however, some still use it as a means of transportation. Variants of cross-country skiing are adapted to a range of terrain which spans unimproved, sometimes mountainous terrain to groomed courses that are specifically designed for the sport."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing

    It's much less expensive than downhill skiing, can be done many more places, is less likely to result in serious injury, and is about as good an exercise as there is. (I've read that it beats even swimming for oxygen uptake.)

    Conservatives should like it because it is closest to the original kind of skiing; leftists should like it because it isn't a luxury sport for the wealthy.

    Never done anything more exhausting in my life.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak considered union ban for thousands of key staff – leaked emails https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/07/rishi-sunak-union-ban-key-staff-leaked-emails

    "Inciting disaffection".
    They should consult the DfE on how to define that exactly.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    If nothing else, a lot of the people nurses care for are pensioners.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    I was thinking the other day where would I live if I could choose anywhere, with no ties from job or family and friends. I decided I’d want variety. A different place each month. Short haul. Something like:

    January canaries
    February Alpujarras
    March Alps
    April burgundy
    May Scottish highlands
    June London
    July Stockholm archipelago
    August Galicia
    September Crete
    October Georgia
    November Morocco
    December Bavaria

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    I really don't think "the Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019". Me, for example.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    I really don't think "the Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019". Me, for example.
    The average age more voted Tory than Labour in 2019 was 39 not 69 as IanB2 suggests


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    On topic: In fact, there is nothing new about extremists in both major parties in the US, some of them elected. There was, for example, the Republican congressman (John Rousselot, as I recall) who quipped that he joined the John Birch Society "in order to appeal to the middle-of-the-road vote in Orange County".

    Or the Democratic Party official who admitted that some of his best precinct workers were Communists.

    Unlike your major parties, our party organizations now have little power to expel extremists.

    To illustrate that point, consider the career of Vito Marcantonio, who was, at one time, a Republican. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Marcantonio

    What has changed in my life time is that the parties overlap ideologically much less than they did. In the 1950s, there was a movement to make our parties more "responsible", more ideologically unified. It never got much support beyond political scientists, but what they wanted has, to some extent, happened.
  • On topic: probably not that much. The fact - as was posted here - that you had progressives like AOC aligning herself with some of the blockers' demands shows how it's not a clear cut case.

    In any event, everyone in the US knows politics involves a degree of theatre, which is exactly what we got over the past few days.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    linto said, on an incident of Chinese spying: "Sounds interesting especially as it doesn't seem like it was targeting anybody specific but everybody."

    American intelligence organizations have noticed the same targeting of everyone. For example, the ChiComs copied the personnel files of all US government employees. And I have read that they bug every visitor's cellphone.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    On topic: In fact, there is nothing new about extremists in both major parties in the US, some of them elected. There was, for example, the Republican congressman (John Rousselot, as I recall) who quipped that he joined the John Birch Society "in order to appeal to the middle-of-the-road vote in Orange County".

    Or the Democratic Party official who admitted that some of his best precinct workers were Communists.

    Unlike your major parties, our party organizations now have little power to expel extremists.

    To illustrate that point, consider the career of Vito Marcantonio, who was, at one time, a Republican. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Marcantonio

    What has changed in my life time is that the parties overlap ideologically much less than they did. In the 1950s, there was a movement to make our parties more "responsible", more ideologically unified. It never got much support beyond political scientists, but what they wanted has, to some extent, happened.

    Southern conservatives now align pretty much with Northern and Western conservatives as Republicans. Northern liberals now align pretty much with Southern and Western liberals as Democrats.

    Someone like Jeanette Rankin would now be a far left Democrat, rather than a Republican.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
    They don't really now do they? We all know that.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    Good afternoon

    The triple lock was introduced by the coalition government and to this day is supported by labour and the lib dems

    It is a bit rich criticising the conservatives over this as when Sunak was considering blocking it late last year, the roar of anger from labour and lib dems was palpable

    Until both labour and lib dems announce it does not support the triple lock then those attacking it are being hypocritical

    And for clarification, as a pensioner I have been against the continuation of the triple lock all along
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2023
    Lake Como and all that are splendid, though I’m not sure I could live there full time.

    My retirement plan is as follows:

    Jan-Mar: Auckland
    Apr-Jun: London
    Jul-Sep: Gascony
    Oct-Dec: London

    Christmas and New Year are a bit crap in London, though. Perhaps that two weeks are best spent in Scotland, or Bavaria as suggested upthread.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Here's the kind of skiing most of you should be doing: "Cross-country skiing is a form of skiing where skiers rely on their own locomotion to move across snow-covered terrain, rather than using ski lifts or other forms of assistance. Cross-country skiing is widely practiced as a sport and recreational activity; however, some still use it as a means of transportation. Variants of cross-country skiing are adapted to a range of terrain which spans unimproved, sometimes mountainous terrain to groomed courses that are specifically designed for the sport."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing

    It's much less expensive than downhill skiing, can be done many more places, is less likely to result in serious injury, and is about as good an exercise as there is. (I've read that it beats even swimming for oxygen uptake.)

    Conservatives should like it because it is closest to the original kind of skiing; leftists should like it because it isn't a luxury sport for the wealthy.

    Never. Utter madness not to use gravity. Looks far too much like hard work and no thrills. As far as I can see the only time you use the edges is to walk up bloody hills. Edges are for turning or stopping yourself before an almighty wipe out.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2023
    I was once driven by a black cab driver who was somehow persuaded to go on a skiing holiday with his mates at age 50 and, after some terrifying runs, was converted into a skiing demon.

    He went three times a year or more, across Europe and even to some of the US resorts.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
    They don't really now do they? We all know that.
    Well they shouldn't be bloody asking for it then.
    This comes from the same stable as 'the EU don't really mean ever closer union'.
    I've got absolutely no patience with this sort of politics. It lacks seriousness.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    kjh said:

    Here's the kind of skiing most of you should be doing: "Cross-country skiing is a form of skiing where skiers rely on their own locomotion to move across snow-covered terrain, rather than using ski lifts or other forms of assistance. Cross-country skiing is widely practiced as a sport and recreational activity; however, some still use it as a means of transportation. Variants of cross-country skiing are adapted to a range of terrain which spans unimproved, sometimes mountainous terrain to groomed courses that are specifically designed for the sport."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing

    It's much less expensive than downhill skiing, can be done many more places, is less likely to result in serious injury, and is about as good an exercise as there is. (I've read that it beats even swimming for oxygen uptake.)

    Conservatives should like it because it is closest to the original kind of skiing; leftists should like it because it isn't a luxury sport for the wealthy.

    Never. Utter madness not to use gravity. Looks far too much like hard work and no thrills. As far as I can see the only time you use the edges is to walk up bloody hills. Edges are for turning or stopping yourself before an almighty wipe out.
    A ideal type of fusion skiing would be a gentle blue run that meanders for 50 miles through beautiful scenery. Gravity-assisted cross country.
  • HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    The govt u-turn on nurses pay will be next week or the week after. Save your energy to support the govt on something that they are not going to ditch.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Cookie said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
    They don't really now do they? We all know that.
    Well they shouldn't be bloody asking for it then.
    This comes from the same stable as 'the EU don't really mean ever closer union'.
    I've got absolutely no patience with this sort of politics. It lacks seriousness.
    Well I tend to agree and life would be a lot easier if everyone asked for what they actually wanted in a negotiation, but nobody does do they, whether it be a union in a pay negotiation or the employer or you and me buying a car or a house.
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
    They don't really now do they? We all know that.
    They have suggested 10% and subject to negotiation

    Sunak needs to agree a deal with the nurses as they are a special case and have offered an olive branch
  • Cookie said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    The RCN wants a 19% pay rise
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nurses-will-strike-again-next-year-nhs/
    They don't really now do they? We all know that.
    Well they shouldn't be bloody asking for it then.
    This comes from the same stable as 'the EU don't really mean ever closer union'.
    I've got absolutely no patience with this sort of politics. It lacks seriousness.
    Come on that is how negotiations always work. They do want 19% but it is not the minimum they are willing to accept and they are happy to talk. The govt are offering an equally unrealistic offer, but have not yet been happy to talk, but will be soon.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Ukraine is now entering the penultimate, offensive stage of the war, the Secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, Oleksiy Danilov, wrote on Facebook on Jan. 6.

    He said the world was changing its view of Russia’s full-scale war against Ukraine – “from a guerrilla movement, to (fighting for) victory.”

    more details at
    https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukraine-entering-penultimate-stage-of-war-says-top-security-official-50295955.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    David Icke is back on Twitter. His first tweet is an attack on Elon Musk.

    https://twitter.com/davidicke
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    TimS said:



    kjh said:

    Here's the kind of skiing most of you should be doing: "Cross-country skiing is a form of skiing where skiers rely on their own locomotion to move across snow-covered terrain, rather than using ski lifts or other forms of assistance. Cross-country skiing is widely practiced as a sport and recreational activity; however, some still use it as a means of transportation. Variants of cross-country skiing are adapted to a range of terrain which spans unimproved, sometimes mountainous terrain to groomed courses that are specifically designed for the sport."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing

    It's much less expensive than downhill skiing, can be done many more places, is less likely to result in serious injury, and is about as good an exercise as there is. (I've read that it beats even swimming for oxygen uptake.)

    Conservatives should like it because it is closest to the original kind of skiing; leftists should like it because it isn't a luxury sport for the wealthy.

    Never. Utter madness not to use gravity. Looks far too much like hard work and no thrills. As far as I can see the only time you use the edges is to walk up bloody hills. Edges are for turning or stopping yourself before an almighty wipe out.
    A ideal type of fusion skiing would be a gentle blue run that meanders for 50 miles through beautiful scenery. Gravity-assisted cross country.
    Not for me I'm afraid. I'm not a fan of the blues; they show up my lack of fluidity in the turns (I look a prat when I try following someone really good) and are not exciting enough. Give me a black full of moguls any day of the week. No decisions of where to put the turn in there. I put on cross country skis once and the inability to edge hard actually scared me. if I want to turn or stop I want to do it NOW.

    Of course if you want to walk up a slope there is also Telemark skiing and I notice when on the slopes the french army train on alpine skis but with bindings that can be locked and unlocked so you can walk uphill without herringbone skiing.
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak considered union ban for thousands of key staff – leaked emails https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/07/rishi-sunak-union-ban-key-staff-leaked-emails

    "Inciting disaffection".
    They should consult the DfE on how to define that exactly.
    They should consult the Tory Whips office on best means for achieving the goal of "inciting disaffection".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    edited January 2023
    TimS said:

    I was thinking the other day where would I live if I could choose anywhere, with no ties from job or family and friends. I decided I’d want variety. A different place each month. Short haul. Something like:

    January canaries
    February Alpujarras
    March Alps
    April burgundy
    May Scottish highlands
    June London
    July Stockholm archipelago
    August Galicia
    September Crete
    October Georgia
    November Morocco
    December Bavaria

    January: Bangkok
    February: Maldives
    March: Basque and Catalan Pyrenees
    April: Languedoc
    May: Dolomites
    June: northern Russia
    July: London and Scotland
    August: Austria/Switzerland
    September: Pelion Greece
    October: Japan
    November: Louisiana
    December: London and Luxor
  • On Topic - Must acknowledge, that Matt Gaetz is PERFECT as Poster Boy for today's Republican-Putinist Party.

    "True" Truth in Advertising.
  • Andy_JS said:

    David Icke is back on Twitter. His first tweet is an attack on Elon Musk.

    https://twitter.com/davidicke

    Talk about a soft target. Softer than a rotting Musk-melon.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited January 2023
    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The right (both in the us and U.K.) now resemble the fractured, ideological left of the 1970s. The Republican people’s front vs. The people’s front of the republic. It’s a total mess.

    Given the fractured ideological left of 2015 to 2020 in the UK rather pot kettle
    The right is worse somehow. On the left this sort of nonsense has always been a thing and is priced in, the right have picked up the infection.

    It’s almost as if they have decided to forfeit conservatism in pursuit of factional ideological purity.
    Even if it doesn't work for 2024, the calm efficiency with which Labour have ditched Corbyn, his works and his acolytes after the 2019 fiasco is blooming impressive.

    It's not obvious that, if they go down to a famous defeat, the Conservatives will have the people or the will to do the same.
    Labour have spent 13 years in opposition after they lost power in 2010 getting progressively more leftwing ever since Blair left via Brown, then Ed Miliband and culminating in Corbyn.

    The idea they should be applauded for finally electing the relatively centrist Starmer after 4 general election defeats in a row is absurd!
    Maybe applaud is the wrong word, but given just how far they went (not even so much on ideology itself, but in unsuitable leadership), with the full backing of the party members, the swift turnaround is rather impressive, even considering circumstances with their opponents will have helped.

    Will the Tories be able to turn things around like that as swiftly? It's not necessarily promising.
    The Tories haven't even lost a general election yet, let alone 4 general elections in a row like Labour when they elected Starmer in 2020.
    Be careful what you wish for…

    By the time the Pensioners’ Party returns to power, you might well be a pensioner yourself. By which time they won’t be quite so obsessed with protecting pensioners at everyone else’s expense, as they are now.
    The Tories won all voters over 39 in 2019, not just pensioners. Indeed Blair actually won pensioners in 1997, hence his landslide, pensioners vote more than the young do, Labour dismiss them at their peril
    Nevertheless, spending our nation’s finances on giving non-productive pensioners a 10% rise, then telling nurses that there isn’t money to give them more than 4% when inflation is 10% plus, and there is a dramatic shortage of nurses, and there’s a huge backlog of people waiting for medical treatment, isn’t a sensible way to run the country.
    It was a 10% rise in the state pension only, those who rely just on the state pension have an income less than minimum wage (the minimum wage and other benefits also rose by 10%).

    The average nurse has an income at least 3 times the average pensioner on just a state pension. As I have said before I don't have a problem with a 6% rise for nurses in line with the average income rise but no more
    I sort of half agree and half disagree with both you and Ian on this one. I agree with the higher pensioners rise for the reason you give at least until the state pension is at a more reasonable level for those that have to rely on it. I would like the rest of us see it taxed away a bit more.

    Re the nurses I would also normally agree as we don't want to start pay rise driven inflation, BUT if we have a shortage of nurses doesn't market forces dictate we should pay them more. Isn't that what a good conservative would do and we don't want the NHS collapsing (as it appears to be doing).
    Also. Pay rises can't drive inflation if they are below inflation.
    No one is expecting, not even nurses themselves, an above inflation pay rise.
    The only examples of possible inflationary pay rises I can think of are in the private sector.
    Unlimited bankers bonuses for example.
This discussion has been closed.