Be more useful if the author of those questions understood the difference between Schenghen and freedom of movement. Or that we already have access to the single market (just not membership of it). And so on.
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
Latest from @OpiniumResearch 30 Nov-2 Dec: Lab lead down to 14 points Lab 43% Con 29% Lib Dems 8% Reform 6% Green 6%
As I predicted, cons on 29 up 1, upward movement not stalled at all.
Vindicated 😇
Of the last 6 polls published on Britain Elects 5 have the Conservatives going down and Opinium has them going up by a solitary 1%. You have a very strange definition of vindicated if you don't mind me saying so.
You're right but... it's not worth it.
We are now going to get a dozen or more Moonrabbit posts repeating the same mistaken point.
But what I am pointing to here is fact. I am comparing from the same pollster same methodology, and asking you to look how close todays poll is to the 4 point lab lead under Truss just before her budget.
Lab just 5 above where they were, LLG just 1 above where it was pre mini budget, Tories 1 point higher than they were sept 2nd if they gobble back up the 6 for reform they had in their belly 2nd September.
Point out and explain my mistaken point. All these are facts. The Opinium trend back to where we were pre mini budget is real, undeniable, AND VERY NEARLY THERE.
This poll with Opinium 2nd September. Go compare!
2 down eleven to go.
A 14% lead is close to a 4% lead. Just one digit difference. Got it.
What this poll is telling us, in Opinium terms we are very nearly reset back to exactly where we were just before the Trussterfuck budget - LLG just 1 different, but Tories even higher now on 35 than the 34 they were on sept 2nd if they gobble up all the reform 6!
Labour on 43, just 5 above where Opinum put them on 2nd September as their own trussy bonus continues to unwind downward, However while LLG is one higher than in Opiniums 2 sep poll, 56 to 57 - Con and reform on this poll has Tory Ref higher than what Tories got on sept 2nd 34 up to 35.
Ramping a Large Labour majority is now blown out the water. It’s just 50/50 they even get a majority.
Opinium with their methodology are merely ahead of the game that things inevitably and rather quickly resetting back to pre Trussterfuck
Opinium aren't reporting current opinion, they are asking for voters' views and then guessing what they will then do when the next election comes around. If 29% is what the Tories are getting after swingback is taken into account then Labour will be delighted.
I know all that Olly, I oft repeat it. But what you are arguing means nowt if we are comparing Opinium with Opinium.
Just look at the trend line in Opinium alone. Just look how close the trend now getting to the 4% lead just before Truss mini budget.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
I went to Old Trafford today to watch Man U ladies against Aston Villa ladies. I hadn't been since the 80s. A patina of woke has been layered across the absurd tribalism I remember from last time around. It was 80% "Manchester United is brilliant and we're all amazing and we all love Alex Ferguson", 20% rainbows and racism. There was the obligatory kneel before the match, to a smattering of polite applause. One stupid quasi-religion layered across another. The football, by the way, was excellent and well worth the ridiculously cheap price of a ticket - if a little lacking in jeopardy (Man U won 5-0). If you can put up with the utter inanity of being in a football stadium, the WSL is amazing value. And an attendance of around 30,000!
The WSL is getting fabulous crowds at the moment because people are being deprived of their Premier league in what should be the peak of the season. Good luck to them. Hopefully their product will continue to attract at least some of those watching when real football recommences.
I also suspect the ticket price is slightly lower than the EPL ticket price.*
*Im glad that the womens game is taking off. It just doesn’t need comparison to the mens for validation.
Yes, it is. The women's game is priced at what I would pay to watch a football match. The men's game is priced at roughly 7 times that. But the quality of the product is not, nowadays, 7 times better. For the casual viewer like me, the men's game is maybe slightly better (maybe 1.5x better, rather than the 7x better the ticket price implies), but that's balanced out by almost every single male footballer being very hard to like.
Leicester City Women lost 8 nil today, and are still without a point.
There are really only a half dozen competitive women's sides in the country.
Fckn hell, the Telegraph is even shite at the stuff it's supposed to be good at. Drummed out of the sycophantic plastic patriots' union with immediate effect.
Letters incoming, twelve o'clock high!
In defence of the telegraph that is a mosquito being used for the same purpose.
The Tele is the only one calling it a Spitfire in flight.
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
What was it you had in mind? From that Rentoul tweet: - The UK joining the Schengen free travel area and having freedom of movement with the EU: Support 57%, Oppose 22% - The UK agreeing to some EU legislation as part of a wider deal on a closer relationship: Support 53%, Oppose 25%
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
Wasn't there a poll recently that showed 2/3 of Swiss want to join the EEA?
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
But Single Market gets 63%, and, contrary to many previous reports and most strikingly of all, Free Movement also already gets 57%. So in fact we're already closer than many politicians think.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
I went to Old Trafford today to watch Man U ladies against Aston Villa ladies. I hadn't been since the 80s. A patina of woke has been layered across the absurd tribalism I remember from last time around. It was 80% "Manchester United is brilliant and we're all amazing and we all love Alex Ferguson", 20% rainbows and racism. There was the obligatory kneel before the match, to a smattering of polite applause. One stupid quasi-religion layered across another. The football, by the way, was excellent and well worth the ridiculously cheap price of a ticket - if a little lacking in jeopardy (Man U won 5-0). If you can put up with the utter inanity of being in a football stadium, the WSL is amazing value. And an attendance of around 30,000!
The WSL is getting fabulous crowds at the moment because people are being deprived of their Premier league in what should be the peak of the season. Good luck to them. Hopefully their product will continue to attract at least some of those watching when real football recommences.
I also suspect the ticket price is slightly lower than the EPL ticket price.*
*Im glad that the womens game is taking off. It just doesn’t need comparison to the mens for validation.
Yes, it is. The women's game is priced at what I would pay to watch a football match. The men's game is priced at roughly 7 times that. But the quality of the product is not, nowadays, 7 times better. For the casual viewer like me, the men's game is maybe slightly better (maybe 1.5x better, rather than the 7x better the ticket price implies), but that's balanced out by almost every single male footballer being very hard to like.
Did it end like the Not the Nine O'clock News women's football sketch?
Latest from @OpiniumResearch 30 Nov-2 Dec: Lab lead down to 14 points Lab 43% Con 29% Lib Dems 8% Reform 6% Green 6%
As I predicted, cons on 29 up 1, upward movement not stalled at all.
Vindicated 😇
Of the last 6 polls published on Britain Elects 5 have the Conservatives going down and Opinium has them going up by a solitary 1%. You have a very strange definition of vindicated if you don't mind me saying so.
You're right but... it's not worth it.
We are now going to get a dozen or more Moonrabbit posts repeating the same mistaken point.
But what I am pointing to here is fact. I am comparing from the same pollster same methodology, and asking you to look how close todays poll is to the 4 point lab lead under Truss just before her budget.
Lab just 5 above where they were, LLG just 1 above where it was pre mini budget, Tories 1 point higher than they were sept 2nd if they gobble back up the 6 for reform they had in their belly 2nd September.
Point out and explain my mistaken point. All these are facts. The Opinium trend back to where we were pre mini budget is real, undeniable, AND VERY NEARLY THERE.
This poll with Opinium 2nd September. Go compare!
2 down eleven to go.
A 14% lead is close to a 4% lead. Just one digit difference. Got it.
For the billionth time, stop talking leads, look at the totals across all the party’s % to know what is really going on. From doing that we learn Lab didn’t get their boost solely from Tories, they took hair cuts from greens and Lib Dems too, some of that hair is still in their mouths. The resetting currently going on apace from here back to just before mini budget is not Lab to Tory lead or Lab to Tory swing. Tory’s just 5 below where Opinium had them, with reform now on 6. And Lib Dem and greens can take back their hair to put Labour in the thirties and the lead you are looking at into single figures. This is all fact, historical fact and scientific fact - Labour can drop into 30s and the lead shrivel simply by giving hair back to greens and Libdems.
I don’t even think some of you can spell Psephophocalology.
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
What was it you had in mind? From that Rentoul tweet: - The UK joining the Schengen free travel area and having freedom of movement with the EU: Support 57%, Oppose 22% - The UK agreeing to some EU legislation as part of a wider deal on a closer relationship: Support 53%, Oppose 25%
That sort of thing, yes.
Though I'd be more confident if the first of those were phrased as "The UK and EU having mutual freedom of movement", for example.
One of the complaints of some "look what you made me do" Brexit backers was that the EU should have offered the UK a unilateral brake on FoM. We could go there, but they couldn't necessarily come here. Which was never going to fly.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
I went to Old Trafford today to watch Man U ladies against Aston Villa ladies. I hadn't been since the 80s. A patina of woke has been layered across the absurd tribalism I remember from last time around. It was 80% "Manchester United is brilliant and we're all amazing and we all love Alex Ferguson", 20% rainbows and racism. There was the obligatory kneel before the match, to a smattering of polite applause. One stupid quasi-religion layered across another. The football, by the way, was excellent and well worth the ridiculously cheap price of a ticket - if a little lacking in jeopardy (Man U won 5-0). If you can put up with the utter inanity of being in a football stadium, the WSL is amazing value. And an attendance of around 30,000!
The WSL is getting fabulous crowds at the moment because people are being deprived of their Premier league in what should be the peak of the season. Good luck to them. Hopefully their product will continue to attract at least some of those watching when real football recommences.
I also suspect the ticket price is slightly lower than the EPL ticket price.*
*Im glad that the womens game is taking off. It just doesn’t need comparison to the mens for validation.
Yes, it is. The women's game is priced at what I would pay to watch a football match. The men's game is priced at roughly 7 times that. But the quality of the product is not, nowadays, 7 times better. For the casual viewer like me, the men's game is maybe slightly better (maybe 1.5x better, rather than the 7x better the ticket price implies), but that's balanced out by almost every single male footballer being very hard to like.
Leicester City Women lost 8 nil today, and are still without a point.
There are really only a half dozen competitive women's sides in the country.
There are only that many men's if you choose to look at it that way.
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
But Single Market gets 63%, and, contrary to many previous reports and most strikingly of all, Free Movement gets 57%. So we're already closer than many politicians think.
Depends entirely which poll looked at.
This one last month had 46% of voters thinking we have too much immigration only 18% too little.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
Phillips P. OBrien @PhillipsPOBrien This map of Russian aircraft activity from the last few months reveals one of the reasons the war has developed as it has and why Russian military power was so overestimated before 24 Feb. If you look at the map of where Russian aircraft were located… https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1599035027307696128
Latest from @OpiniumResearch 30 Nov-2 Dec: Lab lead down to 14 points Lab 43% Con 29% Lib Dems 8% Reform 6% Green 6%
As I predicted, cons on 29 up 1, upward movement not stalled at all.
Vindicated 😇
Yes, and don't forget Opinium are the gold standard from recent General Elections. Fourteen percent is clearly doable for the Conservatives in two years.
Can Rishi manage to take it all the way? Doubtful, but were he to be replaced by Boris, a stonking General Election result beckons. The tightening of the polls is really rather exciting isn't it?
Not exciting for me, I yearn for the Tories out till they come back as Conservatives again. This clueless rump have lost their soul.
But facts are facts. By comparing the trend on 1 pollster I am comparing apples with apples. If Sunak and Braverman got some wins on the South Coast invasion, we will likely be back to the 4 point lead Opinium gave Labour on eve of Mini budget.
Take two off this Labour score and give it to Lib Dems, just 2 more off and give to cons, and give cons just 4 of the six they lost to reform last month, and Opinium gives you a 4% Labour lead.
I like your style. I am not so sure I could have convinced myself of how good a poll that is for us. Well done!
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
I would like to rejoin the EU. I would like the abolition of woke. As supporters of those two views are fundamentally opposed, I would happily accept rejoining the single market and the replacement of Sturgeon with an SNP leader that doesn’t think that women with penises have a right to rape women without penises. Am I being unrealistic?
Anyone but Flynn. Her placeman has been kicked out against her wishes. She is not someone to leave any spoils to the victors if she can help it.
Marvellous that I can come to PB for the inside poop on SNP internal politics. I had hardly a clue who Stephen Flynn was until a couple of weeks ago and you guys knew all about him all along!
He's a Dundonian and Dundee United supporter. He gets a fair bit of attention from the Courier for an Aberdeen MP.
He has consistently supported steps to encourage investment in the North Sea, as any self-respecting MP from Aberdeen would, with the notable exception of being in support of a windfall tax. He opposed Nicola's absurd ideas of discouraging further developments in the north sea on the grounds of net zero or some bizarre international posturing. Whilst still being deluded about the benefits or risks of independence he seems to have more than one toe in the real world which gives him a novelty value.
I would like to rejoin the EU. I would like the abolition of woke. As supporters of those two views are fundamentally opposed, I would happily accept rejoining the single market and the replacement of Sturgeon with an SNP leader that doesn’t think that women with penises have a right to rape women without penises. Am I being unrealistic?
Well, given that Ms Sturgeon doesn't think that, you've only got the really difficult one to fulfil.
Fckn hell, the Telegraph is even shite at the stuff it's supposed to be good at. Drummed out of the sycophantic plastic patriots' union with immediate effect.
Letters incoming, twelve o'clock high!
In defence of the telegraph that is a mosquito being used for the same purpose.
The Tele is the only one calling it a Spitfire in flight.
It’s difficult for Telegraph readers. They think when they are flying to Spain with EasyJet, they are in a Spitfire, because they don’t realise that other aeroplanes have been introduced since the War.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Not a bad endorsement. I know more about Thewliss than Flynn and I like her, so go Alison.
I think Cherry may not even run, not because there's any woke plot to block her, but because afaics she's not very popular with her colleagues. A poor showing would not be good for a bulging ego.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Strange. I thought that an open, tolerant society lay at the heart of Western culture. Turns out I'm wrong, and it actually totalitarianism that defines us.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Wrong on so many points. I am as far from woke as you can get. I hate political correctness. However I also hate irrationality. He clearly was critical of your apparent (whether accurate or not) support of Russia. He told you to go and live in Russia because you appeared to support them.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
Yet it can be 'wildly impressive one moment, a misinformation agent the next' as the article states not AI perfection yet
"AI perfection" would be complete supreme AGI, one computer to rule us all, and we would likely all be dead now, or sleeping in pods being fed electro-nectar as The Machine dutifully depletes our Qi
This is not true AGI, but it is dangerously close, as The Musk sayeth
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
The Chester by election and council by-elections the same day are actual votes cast.
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
Stay! Your insight is much appreciated
You are a young Conservative female (and lesbian?)
We don't get a lot of those around here, to put it mildly - we have a surfeit of ageing centre-lefty Remoaner males who don't quite understand the world - and you would be a significant loss
I asked chat GPT to deliver the next UK budget. Here’s what it proposed. Hard to position politically, though fairly centrist I’d say.
“Some potential elements of a fiscal policy that could help balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment could include:
Reducing government spending in certain areas, such as defense or welfare, and redirecting the savings to support public spending and infrastructure investment. Increasing taxes, particularly on high earners or large corporations, to generate additional revenue for the government. Implementing policies to stimulate economic growth, such as reducing regulations or cutting taxes, which could help increase government revenue through higher levels of income and consumption.
Prioritizing infrastructure investment in areas that are likely to provide the greatest economic benefits, such as improving transportation networks or upgrading public facilities.
Encouraging private sector investment in infrastructure projects, through measures such as tax incentives or public-private partnerships.
Overall, a fiscal policy that aims to balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment would likely require a combination of spending reductions, tax increases, and economic growth initiatives, as well as careful prioritization of investments to maximize their benefits.
Yet it can be 'wildly impressive one moment, a misinformation agent the next' as the article states not AI perfection yet
"AI perfection" would be complete supreme AGI, one computer to rule us all, and we would likely all be dead now, or sleeping in pods being fed electro-nectar as The Machine dutifully depletes our Qi
This is not true AGI, but it is dangerously close, as The Musk sayeth
Which is why I also believe AI research should be subject to strict state oversight and regulation.
Scientific advancement is not an unqualified good if it threatens rather than helps humanity and the wider environment
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
Stay! Your insight is much appreciated
You are a young Conservative female (and lesbian?)
We don't get a lot of those around here, to put it mildly - we have a surfeit of ageing centre-lefty Remoaner males who don't quite understand the world - and you would be a significant loss
STAY!
I agree entirely. She's great. My only issue is that she self ID's as a Lib Dem. Whilst putting in a Stakhanovite shift of Tory ramping.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Strange. I thought that an open, tolerant society lay at the heart of Western culture. Turns out I'm wrong, and it actually totalitarianism that defines us.
Except Wokeism is NOT tolerant, that is the whole point. Hence cancel culture
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
All our higher education establishments are leftist. Which ones are the most leftist?
Yet it can be 'wildly impressive one moment, a misinformation agent the next' as the article states not AI perfection yet
"AI perfection" would be complete supreme AGI, one computer to rule us all, and we would likely all be dead now, or sleeping in pods being fed electro-nectar as The Machine dutifully depletes our Qi
This is not true AGI, but it is dangerously close, as The Musk sayeth
Which is why I also believe AI research should be subject to strict state oversight and regulation.
Scientific advancement is not an unqualified good if it threatens rather than helps humanity and the wider environment
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Strange. I thought that an open, tolerant society lay at the heart of Western culture. Turns out I'm wrong, and it actually totalitarianism that defines us.
Except Wokeism is NOT tolerant, that is the whole point. Hence cancel culture
Therefore it can't be tolerated. This distribution of lupins is more complex than first thought.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
Strange. I thought that an open, tolerant society lay at the heart of Western culture. Turns out I'm wrong, and it actually totalitarianism that defines us.
Except Wokeism is NOT tolerant, that is the whole point. Hence cancel culture
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
You've convinced me young lady. Do you think the unwind will be enough with Rishi on the bridge of USSS Tory? Or do we need a chap with charisma by the boat load?
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
Stay! Your insight is much appreciated
You are a young Conservative female (and lesbian?)
We don't get a lot of those around here, to put it mildly - we have a surfeit of ageing centre-lefty Remoaner males who don't quite understand the world - and you would be a significant loss
STAY!
I agree entirely. She's great. My only issue is that she self ID's as a Lib Dem. Whilst putting in a Stakhanovite shift of Tory ramping.
To be fair to Lib Dems, a hung parliament is an opportunity for them, whereas a big Labour win would be another version of irrelevance.
And as things stand, getting the Conservatives anywhere near a hung parliament needs quite a bit of ramping.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
The Chester by election and council by-elections the same day are actual votes cast.
GE turnout 80%, Chester turnout 40%. So even if (a big if) people vote the same way in a byelection as a GE, the turnout difference alone makes comparisons hard.
If I were a tory voter in Chester watching the trussterfuck, I might feel very justified in sitting on my hands.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
I don't think he has got the fact that he has started an argument with himself.
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
You've convinced me, young lady. Do you think the unwind will be enough with Rishi on the bridge of USSS Tory? Or do we need a chap with charisma by the boat load?
You do. But where would you find one of them who isn't a serial liar with an extensive record of not delivering on any of his bullshit promises? Either to his wives, children or the electorate?
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
Nazism was part of German culture - and European culture - and had some noble ancestors, from Wagner to Nietzsche. Nonetheless we really had to stamp it out, and we did. That was a good thing
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
You've convinced me, young lady. Do you think the unwind will be enough with Rishi on the bridge of USSS Tory? Or do we need a chap with charisma by the boat load?
You do. But where would you find one of them who isn't a serial liar with an extensive record of not delivering on any of his bullshit promises? Either to his wives, children or the electorate?
So you have already discounted the recently rejuvenated Matthew Hancock?
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
The Chester by election and council by-elections the same day are actual votes cast.
GE turnout 80%, Chester turnout 40%. So even if (a big if) people vote the same way in a byelection as a GE, the turnout difference alone makes comparisons hard.
If I were a tory voter in Chester watching the trussterfuck, I might feel very justified in sitting on my hands.
The turnout was actually a big surprise on the upside. You may equally argue why should a Labour voter be arsed when victory was guaranteed? It can't be spun as pro-Tory evidence. Even in the post-truth era. It was an actual votes kicking. Best for Labour since 2010 according to Curtice.
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
I see what you mean. If you subtract one goal from Argentina, and add one goal to Australia, Australia would have won tonight.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
Nazism was part of German culture - and European culture - and had some noble ancestors, from Wagner to Nietzsche. Nonetheless we really had to stamp it out, and we did. That was a good thing
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
Stay! Your insight is much appreciated
You are a young Conservative female (and lesbian?)
We don't get a lot of those around here, to put it mildly - we have a surfeit of ageing centre-lefty Remoaner males who don't quite understand the world - and you would be a significant loss
Not a bad endorsement. I know more about Thewliss than Flynn and I like her, so go Alison.
I think Cherry may not even run, not because there's any woke plot to block her, but because afaics she's not very popular with her colleagues. A poor showing would not be good for a bulging ego.
Unfortunately that means more mediocraty as the rest are invisible troughers.
Trouble will come when the people of the UK are asked what they are prepared to offer/give up/swallow to get those goodies. I sense/fear we are still a way off having that conversation.
But Single Market gets 63%, and, contrary to many previous reports and most strikingly of all, Free Movement gets 57%. So we're already closer than many politicians think.
Depends entirely which poll looked at.
This one last month had 46% of voters thinking we have too much immigration only 18% too little.
Anyone but Flynn. Her placeman has been kicked out against her wishes. She is not someone to leave any spoils to the victors if she can help it.
Marvellous that I can come to PB for the inside poop on SNP internal politics. I had hardly a clue who Stephen Flynn was until a couple of weeks ago and you guys knew all about him all along!
He's a Dundonian and Dundee United supporter. He gets a fair bit of attention from the Courier for an Aberdeen MP.
He has consistently supported steps to encourage investment in the North Sea, as any self-respecting MP from Aberdeen would, with the notable exception of being in support of a windfall tax. He opposed Nicola's absurd ideas of discouraging further developments in the north sea on the grounds of net zero or some bizarre international posturing. Whilst still being deluded about the benefits or risks of independence he seems to have more than one toe in the real world which gives him a novelty value.
FPT: Has Walker given up? "Herschel Walker was being swamped by negative television ads. His Democratic opponents were preparing to flood the polls for early voting as soon as doors opened. After being hit by fresh allegations of carpetbagging, he was left with just over a week to make his final appeals to voters in the runoff for Georgia’s Senate seat.
But for five days, Mr. Walker was off the campaign trail.
It certainly looks like it to me. He can't be enjoying the attacks he has been getting. Perhaps someone should have warned him that "politics ain't beanbag", before he got into the race.
Not a bad endorsement. I know more about Thewliss than Flynn and I like her, so go Alison.
I think Cherry may not even run, not because there's any woke plot to block her, but because afaics she's not very popular with her colleagues. A poor showing would not be good for a bulging ego.
Unfortunately that means more mediocraty as the rest are invisible troughers.
Looking at the ineptitude of Joanna Cherry’s colleagues, not being popular with them is a positive.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
You've convinced me, young lady. Do you think the unwind will be enough with Rishi on the bridge of USSS Tory? Or do we need a chap with charisma by the boat load?
You do. But where would you find one of them who isn't a serial liar with an extensive record of not delivering on any of his bullshit promises? Either to his wives, children or the electorate?
So you have already discounted the recently rejuvenated Matthew Hancock?
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
I think that @HYFUD’s comments are born out of frustration at how his party is going. I don’t blame him. I expect he has worked for many years for what he believes in, and sees it all turning to ashes. As an SNP member, I understand and sympathise.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Probably indicates the latest Tory attack line from CCHQ.
Not a bad endorsement. I know more about Thewliss than Flynn and I like her, so go Alison.
I think Cherry may not even run, not because there's any woke plot to block her, but because afaics she's not very popular with her colleagues. A poor showing would not be good for a bulging ego.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
"Look lads, this is the only promising attack line we have left, so hit it hard!"
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Probably indicates the latest Tory attack line from CCHQ.
Anti-Woke is about all that's left in the Tory's locker now.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
I don't actually think that point is as unsound as it might appear on first glance. Ideas can contain the seeds of their own destruction perhaps. That is, an emergent idea or culture could weaken or even destroy (though transformating entirely) the culture it emerged from.
Whilst I decry the sillier elements of what some call woke culture all the time I'm not on board with this level of fearmongering, but as a concept I think the 'it will weaken X culture' even though it emerged from it is not completely illogical.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
What is this western culture of which you speak? Where were its roots? Were there any debates between Protestants and Catholics or between the men who wanted to massacre the women they called "witches" and the "witches" themselves? Franco, Mussolini, Hitler, slavery, the forced sterilisation of many women in the United States who were labelled "subnormal" - all these were foreign to western culture? Because I can tell you, there wasn't much permitted debate about them at the time.
Looking at Britain, stage plays were subject to prior approval and censorship by the Lord Chamberlain until 1968. The Life of Brian was banned by several local authorities in 1979. Did you notice much debate or free speech in 2022 during the period of official mourning for the late sovereign? I am wondering when the heyday of Western culture was in Britain.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Probably indicates the latest Tory attack line from CCHQ.
Anti-Woke is about all that's left in the Tory's locker now.
....Yes but if you take Opinium's most recent poll and add two to the LDs and take away six from last weeks YouGov having discounted RefUK and add it to the week before's Redfield and Wilton if I'm not mistaken you'll have a very well patterned carpet.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
I don't actually think that point is as unsound as it might appear on first glance. Ideas can contain the seeds of their own destruction perhaps. That is, an emergent idea or culture could weaken or even destroy (though transformating entirely) the culture it emerged from.
Whilst I decry the sillier elements of what some call woke culture all the time I'm not on board with this level of fearmongering, but as a concept I think the 'it will weaken X culture' even though it emerged from it is not completely illogical.
Sure, but saying western culture has free speech and debate among its main essential features is off the wall.
We rather liked it here up until about ten years ago, and find it rather disappointing that our country's culture has to massively change on the say so of a small minority of extremists. Antiwokists don't want to go back to tge 1950s. About 2011 would do.
- that's missing how reaction works.
There are those for whom the overturning of Roe vs Wade is a step towards the repeal of laws against racial discrimination, etc. etc. etc. Let's not forget who the patron saint of Brexit is, how well he is remembered, and what he made his 1968 "blood" speech ABOUT.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Probably indicates the latest Tory attack line from CCHQ.
Anti-Woke is about all that's left in the Tory's locker now.
Been saying that for 12 months. Even the Trussonomics failed to give a positive reason to back the Tories (for those of us earning under 150k pa at least)
Another day, another Moonrabbit ramping of Tory prospects.
Yes, for a professed LD she sure takes some odd lines.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Rethink your membership of UKIP? You mean you don’t want to remain in the same party as @MoonRabbit?
I know where my work here is not being appreciated, reflected on or even challenged thoughtfully enough, my psepholoogica effort being betrayed.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
This semi-gibberish prose style reminds me of Esther in My Name is Red.
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Probably indicates the latest Tory attack line from CCHQ.
Anti-Woke is about all that's left in the Tory's locker now.
Given their current demographic, it's more like Great Auntie...
Today I learnt that there has been an effort to deny that signs put up by landladies and landlords saying "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" didn't really exist. That is utter bullsh*t. They certainly did exist. I know this through direct family experience in London. They were precisely the kind of thing that the 1968 Race Relations Act made unlawful. The Act made it a crime to refuse to offer housing, employment, or public services to any person on the grounds of colour, race, ethnicity, or national origins. It was the proposal to legislate in this way that Enoch Powell was speaking against. He wasn't just sounding off against immigration without having a focus. There wouldn't have been any point in getting upset about abolishing something that didn't exist.
As Tony Murray rightly says, "Ample evidence exists in numerous oral history interviews with both Caribbean and Irish migrants that such signs existed well into the 60s."
Yes. The Elgin Marbles are going back to Greece, no question. This story would not have leaked otherwise
Then watch all the other nations stake claims to the rest of the British Museum. And given the Wokeness of museum curators - cf the Wellcome - who will resist?
Cultural suicide
It's a sign of a lack of self-confidence.
Ironically, if everyone believed equally that Britain had a strong future - and were proud of what it stood for - it simply wouldn't happen.
Of course. And any remaining self confidence is viciously corroded by the Woke. White people must be ashamed of their skin colour, British history is evil, every British institution is racist
Eventually all this shit has an effect, and the culture collapses from within. What will replace it?
I dunno. The Woke may not like a world where British and western self belief has entirely disappeared
That's exactly what the cultural Marxists want.
They are enabled by the establishment liberals. Which is the group I keep trying to wake up to it.
There are signs of hope. @Gallowgate and @Gardenwalker are intelligent enough to have their own considered view on it.
'Establishment liberals' haven't properly researched the ideology and philosophy behind a lot of this stuff; they just embrace it because of a tribal mindset triggered by Trump and Brexit. I've seen a lot of evidence of that, reading PB comments over the last couple of years. But I think maybe the high water mark has passed and the 'woke' are now in retreat.
To me, even if all the British Museum was emptied, it would be trivial and insignificant, if a bit unfortunate. The thing I object profoundly to is the assault on free thought and speech, and the uncivilised urge to completely destroy people when they offend an ever changing zeitgeist.
People keep hopefully calling ‘peak Woke’ - yet it never happens
As lucidly pointed out in this excellent Spectator article
Only in certain big city and university towns in the West.
In the provinces and rural areas most still think Wokeism a load of rubbish pushed by those who hate their own culture and country.
In Xi's China, Putin's Russia and Modi's India they are anything but Woke, they just see it as symbolic of the weakness of the modern West
Why don't people like you go and live in Russia?
It is Wokeists like you pushing hatred of our culture that is the biggest boost to the likes of Putin.
Zelensky at least may be liberal but he is not a defeatist, self hating Woke, if he was Putin would have captured Kyiv long ago. Instead Zelensky is a Ukrainian patriot who also values Judeo Christian culture
On what basis do you determine Chris is Woke?
On the basis he told me to go to Russia for saying something critical of Wokeism
Well that is completely irrational. He said it not because he is Woke but because you posted positive comments about Russia.
No he said it because he is Woke and ideologically anti anyone who values our culture and heritage and stands in the way of his leftist agenda.
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
How the hell do you know? He didn't say anything woke. He was critical of your support of Russia and your comments about Zelensky were said after his post. He isn't a mind reader so your last sentence is nonsense.
Yes he did, he told me to go and live in Russia because I made the obvious point Wokeism is destroying Western culture from within and aiding the likes of Putin and Xi.
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I'm a little confused here. Woke emerged from Western culture. So how can it weaken Western culture? It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
It is a cancer produced from within our most leftist higher education institutions threatening to destroy Western culture from within
So. You agree it is Western culture then? Just the bit of it you don't like? Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
It isn't western culture, it is anti western culture and if we allow it to take control it will end Western culture. Western culture fosters debate and free speech including against the Wokeists who wish to cancel anyone who disagrees with them
Have you been out drinking with some notable anti-woke PBers tonight? These tirades are most unlike you, and seem to be a new theme.
Anti wokeists are fighting the hippy culture which we should all embrace by trying to force conformity on us all. It's in fact a war on live and let live.
Calling it a war on woke is just a thinly disguised camouflage for crude authoritarianism.
I asked chat GPT to deliver the next UK budget. Here’s what it proposed. Hard to position politically, though fairly centrist I’d say.
“Some potential elements of a fiscal policy that could help balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment could include:
Reducing government spending in certain areas, such as defense or welfare, and redirecting the savings to support public spending and infrastructure investment. Increasing taxes, particularly on high earners or large corporations, to generate additional revenue for the government. Implementing policies to stimulate economic growth, such as reducing regulations or cutting taxes, which could help increase government revenue through higher levels of income and consumption.
Prioritizing infrastructure investment in areas that are likely to provide the greatest economic benefits, such as improving transportation networks or upgrading public facilities.
Encouraging private sector investment in infrastructure projects, through measures such as tax incentives or public-private partnerships.
Overall, a fiscal policy that aims to balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment would likely require a combination of spending reductions, tax increases, and economic growth initiatives, as well as careful prioritization of investments to maximize their benefits.
It's fairly meaningless really isn't it. The software is clearly aimed at providing lucid and impressive sounding phrases, rather than actual answers. Which is still good of course.
Today I learnt that there has been an effort to deny that signs put up by landladies and landlords saying "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" didn't really exist. That is utter bullsh*t. They certainly did exist. I know this through direct family experience in London. They were precisely the kind of thing that the 1968 Race Relations Act made unlawful. The Act made it a crime to refuse to offer housing, employment, or public services to any person on the grounds of colour, race, ethnicity, or national origins. It was the proposal to legislate in this way that Enoch Powell was speaking against. He wasn't just sounding off against immigration without having a focus. There wouldn't have been any point in getting upset about abolishing something that didn't exist.
As Tony Murray rightly says, "Ample evidence exists in numerous oral history interviews with both Caribbean and Irish migrants that such signs existed well into the 60s."
Tbf, reading that article suggests it’s one crank trying to argue that the signs were not in use. As said in the article, the direct Provence of one photo might be in doubt, but there is huge testimony from many people about the reality. This chap sounds odd.
Comments
With figures like that, a single market referendum will surely be a reality at some point or other.
Enough for me to rethink my membership of UKIP.
Just look at the trend line in Opinium alone. Just look how close the trend now getting to the 4% lead just before Truss mini budget.
There are really only a half dozen competitive women's sides in the country.
- The UK joining the Schengen free travel area and having freedom of movement with the EU: Support 57%, Oppose 22%
- The UK agreeing to some EU legislation as part of a wider deal on a closer relationship: Support 53%, Oppose 25%
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Replying to
"@sama ChatGPT is scary good. We are not far from dangerously strong AI."
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1599128577068650498?s=20&t=Vv7XRxp50f9TC6KwPfpZmA
He's right. As soon as @FrancisUrquhart of this sweet parish turned me on to GPT3 back in 2020, I knew this was Dangerous AI on the horizon
And I have been right all along, ever since
I don’t even think some of you can spell Psephophocalology.
Though I'd be more confident if the first of those were phrased as "The UK and EU having mutual freedom of movement", for example.
One of the complaints of some "look what you made me do" Brexit backers was that the EU should have offered the UK a unilateral brake on FoM. We could go there, but they couldn't necessarily come here. Which was never going to fly.
This one last month had 46% of voters thinking we have too much immigration only 18% too little.
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/generally-speaking-would-you-say-britain-currently-has-too-much-immigration-not-enough-immigration-or-about-the-right-amount/
Even the Tony Blair Institute found only 23% want to rejoin the full EU and 11% the single market when given a full range of options
https://institute.global/policy/moving-how-british-public-views-brexit-and-what-it-wants-future-relationship-european-union
Still a cracking number though
"Think on Minnie Caldwell."
I said even more positive comments about Zelensky so that doesn't stand either
@PhillipsPOBrien
This map of Russian aircraft activity from the last few months reveals one of the reasons the war has developed as it has and why Russian military power was so overestimated before 24 Feb. If you look at the map of where Russian aircraft were located…
https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1599035027307696128
Nothing in the NYT, nothing in the Guardian, nothing in the Washington Post. etc
The Times has done this, but it doesn't really capture the importance of the moment
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/could-chat-gpt-talk-google-out-of-a-job-v8g85vxl0
He has consistently supported steps to encourage investment in the North Sea, as any self-respecting MP from Aberdeen would, with the notable exception of being in support of a windfall tax. He opposed Nicola's absurd ideas of discouraging further developments in the north sea on the grounds of net zero or some bizarre international posturing. Whilst still being deluded about the benefits or risks of independence he seems to have more than one toe in the real world which gives him a novelty value.
https://twitter.com/markomihkelson/status/1599107924772605952
However the likes of you and Chris by appeasing the Wokeists just weaken western culture and strength even more
I think Cherry may not even run, not because there's any woke plot to block her, but because afaics she's not very popular with her colleagues. A poor showing would not be good for a bulging ego.
Everyone else is apparently.
Woke emerged from Western culture.
So how can it weaken Western culture?
It is a subset of it, not an alien concept.
I shall flounce off back to con home where I am better appreciated.
But for the twelfth and final time, look at the Opinum on 2nd September just before Truss budget, exhibit A, now look at todays Opnium, exhibit B, and look for the up down trend line from A to B and how on trend they are becoming much the same points with recent polls from Opnium.
When Opnium gave Labour just 4 point lead over Truss, it wasn’t, it was more likely 8 or 9 % based on average of others, the serious ones not including people polling. What we need to watch for with Opnium set on course for about 6% are other A to Bs making their way down to 9 or 10, in other words as you were, Truss unwound. Because if Truss unwind is as rapid as I am (but we all should be) seeing from Opinium, then the thinking Labour are still miles ahead will be lazy and out of date before you realise it.
This is not true AGI, but it is dangerously close, as The Musk sayeth
You are a young Conservative female (and lesbian?)
We don't get a lot of those around here, to put it mildly - we have a surfeit of ageing centre-lefty Remoaner males who don't quite understand the world - and you would be a significant loss
STAY!
“Some potential elements of a fiscal policy that could help balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment could include:
Reducing government spending in certain areas, such as defense or welfare, and redirecting the savings to support public spending and infrastructure investment.
Increasing taxes, particularly on high earners or large corporations, to generate additional revenue for the government.
Implementing policies to stimulate economic growth, such as reducing regulations or cutting taxes, which could help increase government revenue through higher levels of income and consumption.
Prioritizing infrastructure investment in areas that are likely to provide the greatest economic benefits, such as improving transportation networks or upgrading public facilities.
Encouraging private sector investment in infrastructure projects, through measures such as tax incentives or public-private partnerships.
Overall, a fiscal policy that aims to balance the UK budget while supporting public spending and infrastructure investment would likely require a combination of spending reductions, tax increases, and economic growth initiatives, as well as careful prioritization of investments to maximize their benefits.
Scientific advancement is not an unqualified good if it threatens rather than helps humanity and the wider environment
My only issue is that she self ID's as a Lib Dem.
Whilst putting in a Stakhanovite shift of Tory ramping.
Just the bit of it you don't like?
Surely forcibly stamping it out would therefore be destroying a significant strand of Western culture?
This distribution of lupins is more complex than first thought.
And as things stand, getting the Conservatives anywhere near a hung parliament needs quite a bit of ramping.
A Pre-Raphaelite depiction of... followed by a person or scene of your choice. Then vary the artistic style.
Surrealist and Boris Johnson made me LOL.
If I were a tory voter in Chester watching the trussterfuck, I might feel very justified in sitting on my hands.
But where would you find one of them who isn't a serial liar with an extensive record of not delivering on any of his bullshit promises? Either to his wives, children or the electorate?
You may equally argue why should a Labour voter be arsed when victory was guaranteed?
It can't be spun as pro-Tory evidence. Even in the post-truth era.
It was an actual votes kicking.
Best for Labour since 2010 according to Curtice.
Which is a problem.
But for five days, Mr. Walker was off the campaign trail.
The decision to skip campaigning over the crucial Thanksgiving holiday weekend has Mr. Walker’s Republican allies airing frustrations and concerns about his campaign strategy in the final stretch of the overtime election against Senator Raphael Warnock."
source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/in-georgia-walker-s-pace-in-the-finish-worries-republican-allies/ar-AA14KhJR?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=71de6d47fcf446e1810be07200d9dcd4
It certainly looks like it to me. He can't be enjoying the attacks he has been getting. Perhaps someone should have warned him that "politics ain't beanbag", before he got into the race.
Whilst I decry the sillier elements of what some call woke culture all the time I'm not on board with this level of fearmongering, but as a concept I think the 'it will weaken X culture' even though it emerged from it is not completely illogical.
Looking at Britain, stage plays were subject to prior approval and censorship by the Lord Chamberlain until 1968. The Life of Brian was banned by several local authorities in 1979. Did you notice much debate or free speech in 2022 during the period of official mourning for the late sovereign? I am wondering when the heyday of Western culture was in Britain.
And as for this - that's missing how reaction works.
There are those for whom the overturning of Roe vs Wade is a step towards the repeal of laws against racial discrimination, etc. etc. etc. Let's not forget who the patron saint of Brexit is, how well he is remembered, and what he made his 1968 "blood" speech ABOUT.
One painting from every year of the 17th century, from China to India and Italy to Mexico and everywhere in between, in chronological order.
1601: The Calling of Saint Matthew by Caravaggio..
https://mobile.twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1598536718910599168
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/28/no-reason-to-doubt-no-irish-no-blacks-signs
As Tony Murray rightly says, "Ample evidence exists in numerous oral history interviews with both Caribbean and Irish migrants that such signs existed well into the 60s."
Calling it a war on woke is just a thinly disguised camouflage for crude authoritarianism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63848998
"Police watchdog head Michael Lockwood resigns amid investigation"
Is this a smart move, it just risks keeping the story going.
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1599324051104841728?s=61&t=J9bk4Z_vfCCLaapQnJ9ONg