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All Trussed up and nowhere to go – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Anyone think England might be better coming second in our group?

    Realise I’m getting miles ahead, but… don’t fancy France in a potential quarter final
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am - provocatively - going to bring today's two threads together.

    Missionaries going to Africa to bring Christianity and medicine - as in that dreadful painting - is now seen as bad and of its time and not on now. Instead we have the likes of Oxfam who bring help to the poorest and those affected by natural disasters and.... er...... sexually exploit poor women.

    As here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56670162 - some 3 years after the previous scandal. We have had similar stories about UN relief agencies and other NGOs - for instance, refugee children in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone were subjected to sexual abuse and exploitation, reportedly by employees of national and international NGOs, UNHCR and other UN bodies. Even Save The Children was subject to sexual abuse allegations against its employees.

    It's almost as if people with power will abuse it, sexual predators will abuse every opportunity they can find and doing good works does not stop people behaving like total arseholes - whether in the 19th century or now.

    "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons."

    Yes, it's almost as if the past is a set of lessons we could learn from or something.

    Does anyone else wonder about the anger of some of the Reformers in the Reformation and draw a line with the scandals of the Catholic Church today?
    Well I could be even more provocative and draw a line between the payment of cash for indulgences to the medieval pre-Reformation church and the payment of cash by various public and private organisations to - and doing what they are told by - today's secular priesthoods (aka charities) in return for getting brownie points and put higher up the Diversity rankings issued by said charities. Which the organizations then boast about.

    And both the medieval Church and today's organizations were / are seemingly incapable of realising the grotesque conflict of interest they were / are thereby creating, which was detrimental to the Church then and good governance today.

    Is that what you were referring to? 🤔
    Partly :wink:

    The plays never change. Only the pitch of what they are selling varies.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Should have scored
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    This is an incredibly dull game

    Spain much less impressive in their 2nd game - like England

    The curse of Leonadamus...
    It is quite frightening to have these powers. Don’t be envious
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Anyone think England might be better coming second in our group?

    Realise I’m getting miles ahead, but… don’t fancy France in a potential quarter final

    Yep, I’d want to go the other way, but it’s hard to engineer when the opposition are as poor as Wales.
  • dixiedean said:

    "It's very difficult to play against top class players when they pass and move the ball at speed."
    Thanks Alan Shearer.
    If the BBC wants to save money, I will provide such insights for a tenth of the price.

    I don't care what it costs, just tell Gareth Southgate please.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    This is an incredibly dull game

    Spain much less impressive in their 2nd game - like England

    The curse of Leonadamus...
    It’s a talent. He’s practicing for Tuesday - “England look terrible tonight, can see Wales scoring”.
    "can see Wales scoring four without reply" it has to be.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    I am - provocatively - going to bring today's two threads together.

    Missionaries going to Africa to bring Christianity and medicine - as in that dreadful painting - is now seen as bad and of its time and not on now. Instead we have the likes of Oxfam who bring help to the poorest and those affected by natural disasters and.... er...... sexually exploit poor women.

    As here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56670162 - some 3 years after the previous scandal. We have had similar stories about UN relief agencies and other NGOs - for instance, refugee children in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone were subjected to sexual abuse and exploitation, reportedly by employees of national and international NGOs, UNHCR and other UN bodies. Even Save The Children was subject to sexual abuse allegations against its employees.

    It's almost as if people with power will abuse it, sexual predators will abuse every opportunity they can find and doing good works does not stop people behaving like total arseholes - whether in the 19th century or now.

    "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons."

    It's almost as if people with power [over other people] will use it.

    E.g. not just Oxfam and bosses and medics and what have you but those who operate in the name of fictitious persons such as Google or Facebook or HMUKoGB&NI.
    There's a solution. It's millenarian.
  • The more games I see, the harder it is to see anybody challening France other than Brazil.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    The more games I see, the harder it is to see anybody challening France other than Brazil.

    Argentina must surely improve
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    If Costa Rica grind out a draw or better vs Germany, and Spain dispatch Japan they go through. Remarkable after their poor start.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited November 2022
    "Last time Germany lost their two opening matches was 1938."

    So much for the master race, eh Adolf?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    New calculations needed now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    The more games I see, the harder it is to see anybody challening France other than Brazil.

    Agreed. France look by far the best side in it. Seem to have ludicrously rich resources in their squad.

    But, who knows?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Germany right back in the World Cup now
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    edited November 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    Most ad agencies are woker than woke - all central london based, all skewed heavily young (most people under 40, well over half under 30) and left leaning.

    Because of the nature of tv commercials - 30 seconds on average - it's rare to be able to feature more than two or at most three characters. The account managers go "you can't do an ad with three white people in, not in multicultural britain, it's racist" so what you get is at least one of the two or three main characters being of a different ethnicity - which also winds people up no end as it's generally a family scenario with multiple ethnicities, which remains rare in the UK.

    Trying to argue "but x minority only has y (where y < 10%) of the population therefore there should only be y of minorities in our ads will not get you very far - just accusations of racism. So the proportion of x minorities in ads is anywhere from 33-50% depending on how many main characters there are in the ad.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    On the other hand you can get a generous 6/1 against France winning the Cup

    That seems like VALUE

    As @FrancisUrquhart says they look like the best team alongside Brazil

    Presumably the odds reflect the various obstacles in front of France. England potentially in the QFs etc. Nonetheless that’s maybe worth a nibble. For nibblers
  • dixiedean said:

    My youngest made his university ice hockey debut last night. They lost 22-0.
    I wasn't surprised, as, when he went down in September, I wasn't aware of him ever having been skating.

    Can he get a scholarship playing for the team?

    IF not, suggest he look into possibilities at University of Maine Fort Kent or similar?

    Or maybe Simon Fraser University?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    On the other hand you can get a generous 6/1 against France winning the Cup

    That seems like VALUE

    As @FrancisUrquhart says they look like the best team alongside Brazil

    Presumably the odds reflect the various obstacles in front of France. England potentially in the QFs etc. Nonetheless that’s maybe worth a nibble. For nibblers

    That is VALUE.

    I might have a soupçon if I feel similarly when sober
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    It is never "great" if Germany nick a winner.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited November 2022

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited November 2022
    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    On the other hand you can get a generous 6/1 against France winning the Cup

    That seems like VALUE

    As @FrancisUrquhart says they look like the best team alongside Brazil

    Presumably the odds reflect the various obstacles in front of France. England potentially in the QFs etc. Nonetheless that’s maybe worth a nibble. For nibblers

    That is VALUE.

    I might have a soupçon if I feel similarly when sober
    If nothing else, it will be an emotional hedge against the pain of France winning the World Cup AGAIN

    I might go for £20. I get a very decent lunch if they win
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    What a day its been.

    Politicians are like buses, you wait around for thirty years to see one, then FOUR turn up all at once.
    The last time I met a politician was Angela Eagle, then newly elected for Wallasey, all the way back in December 1992 for our secondary school awards ceremony.

    Nothing since, though I'd made no effort to actually meet them and then last week I was jumped by Paula Barker, MP for Liverpool Wavertree whilst out shopping at Asda ("the Asda") near Sefton Park. Didn't have the heart to tell her I wasn't a constituent.

    Not to be deterred however, we ran into Peter Dowd, who my wife and I met today at our Church in Crosby. I didn't expect to say a single word to him, but he came over to us during tea and cake and shared a long chat with us, discussing life as an MP, but also a nice long chat about the EU and how the Conservatives have messed it all up.

    Finally, two local councillors were approached and thanked by my wife for their help in the summer over the erection of a 5G mast proposed outside our house (which was then blocked).

    Four in a week. My goodness.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    It is never "great" if Germany nick a winner.
    Rather them than Spain
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    The thing I find offensive here is that the activity and language of the Wellcome Museum is the precise opposite of the empancipatory, liberal values of the Enlightenment.

    Instead of engaging, it seeks to exclude.
    Instead of accessibility, it’s literally closing.
    Instead of education, the idea is to shame.

    My issue with the general “Tory” campaign against woke is that it doesn’t position itself in liberal values either. It’s just knockabout stuff to eke out coverage in the Mail.

    We need a proper liberal critique of “woke”.

    The liberal critique of it is easy: that opposing ideas should be engaged with and not cancelled. That ideas should be judged on their merit and not the person who spoke them.

    I also agree that the Tory critique is often misplaced and based on them not liking an opposing view. For example, I'd argue choosing to remove a statue of a slave owner from a public place is a reasonable, non-woke position to take. Such artifacts are divisive, so depending on the wider achievements of said person, may be better suited to a museum.

    But where things should definitely not be cancelled is in a museum. That is a place where people go by choice and the curation can explain where pieces are controversial.
    Well, the Wellcome morons are getting tremendous pushback on Twitter and near universal condemnation, so maybe, in this rare instance, the Wokeness will be defeated

    But I'm not betting on it
    Well the BBC are unconcerned....

    Controversial objects include a 1916 painting titled "A Medical Missionary Attending to a Sick African" which depicts an African person kneeling in front of a white missionary.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63772864

    What is interesting here is that this is now totally verboten. Are we to say that never happened? Of course you could easily put context of we need to be careful here about the motivates of such a painting etc etc etc.
    An African kneeling? It's the white person kneeling in the painting. Basic facts wrong.
  • Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.
    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are hugely overrepresented.

    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    tlg86 said:

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
    That I do not know. Please tell!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand you can get a generous 6/1 against France winning the Cup

    That seems like VALUE

    As @FrancisUrquhart says they look like the best team alongside Brazil

    Presumably the odds reflect the various obstacles in front of France. England potentially in the QFs etc. Nonetheless that’s maybe worth a nibble. For nibblers

    That is VALUE.

    I might have a soupçon if I feel similarly when sober
    If nothing else, it will be an emotional hedge against the pain of France winning the World Cup AGAIN

    I might go for £20. I get a very decent lunch if they win
    Absolutely. I like your thinking
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.
    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are hugely overrepresented.

    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    And then pundits bemoan the fact that the average voter greatly over-estimates the numbers of BAMEs in the country. Well duh
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
    That I do not know. Please tell!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E
  • Leon said:

    On the other hand you can get a generous 6/1 against France winning the Cup

    That seems like VALUE

    As @FrancisUrquhart says they look like the best team alongside Brazil

    Presumably the odds reflect the various obstacles in front of France. England potentially in the QFs etc. Nonetheless that’s maybe worth a nibble. For nibblers

    That is VALUE.

    I might have a soupçon if I feel similarly when sober
    My view is that it's VALUE not to bet on the football.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
    That I do not know. Please tell!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E
    Same points and same goal difference!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    What a day its been.

    Politicians are like buses, you wait around for thirty years to see one, then FOUR turn up all at once.
    The last time I met a politician was Angela Eagle, then newly elected for Wallasey, all the way back in December 1992 for our secondary school awards ceremony.

    Nothing since, though I'd made no effort to actually meet them and then last week I was jumped by Paula Barker, MP for Liverpool Wavertree whilst out shopping at Asda ("the Asda") near Sefton Park. Didn't have the heart to tell her I wasn't a constituent.

    Not to be deterred however, we ran into Peter Dowd, who my wife and I met today at our Church in Crosby. I didn't expect to say a single word to him, but he came over to us during tea and cake and shared a long chat with us, discussing life as an MP, but also a nice long chat about the EU and how the Conservatives have messed it all up.

    Finally, two local councillors were approached and thanked by my wife for their help in the summer over the erection of a 5G mast proposed outside our house (which was then blocked).

    Four in a week. My goodness.

    Not much sign of Conservative politicians in Merseyside.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Bigots do.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Would you give a **** if 85% of people in adverts were white, which is in line with the actual percentages in the population?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
    That I do not know. Please tell!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E

    Incredible
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Would you give a **** if 85% of people in adverts were white, which is in line with the actual percentages in the population?
    I couldn’t care less either way
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited November 2022
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.

    That setup was stopped by the bribery of Peru by Argentina in 1978.

    They needed a 4 goal win and won by 6.
    Signed off by the dictators for a huge foreign debt payment apparently.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    The riots in Belgium look very bad, especially for what they say about social cohesion there:

    https://news.sky.com/story/riots-erupt-in-brussels-after-morocco-pull-off-world-cup-upset-beating-belgium-12756774
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Be great if Germany can nick a winner - all teams would then have 3 points

    No googling, what is the only occasion that all four teams in a World Cup group have got four points?
    That I do not know. Please tell!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E

    Incredible
    Sorry Norway, your flag doesn't fit.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.

    The recent RL world cup had that system for mysterious reasons. England played Samoa in the group and then in semi.
    No idea why at all.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.




    Would be a quality format although lots of jeopardy!

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    The riots in Belgium look very bad, especially for what they say about social cohesion there:

    https://news.sky.com/story/riots-erupt-in-brussels-after-morocco-pull-off-world-cup-upset-beating-belgium-12756774

    That report manages to delicately dance around those responsible. If you weren't careful you might think it was general football fans or even angry Belgium fans....or as the BBC report described it "celebrations".
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    Risky. What if Germany turn over Costa Rica like Spain did and score 8?
    Then Japan and Germany would go through and Spain would be out.
  • Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    Risky. What if Germany turn over Costa Rica like Spain did and score 8?
    Then Japan and Germany would go through and Spain would be out.
    In fairness. I think that comment was made at 1-0 to Spain.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.

    That setup was stopped by the bribery of Peru by Argentina in 1978.
    Bribery or threats?!

    I’d have the winner, runner up, and third place team qualify for the next tournament to incentivise making the third place playoff.

    And, of course, the final games would be played at the same time as each other, which wasn’t the case in 1978.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited November 2022

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spain rest their players in the final group game against Japan, who get a 1-0 win. Everyone happy.

    Except the Germans.

    More likely. Spain's second team squeak a 1-0 win. Germany win 2-0.
    They then play Morocco, then Portugal in the quarters and go out as semi-finalists.
    2002 World Cup repeat. Get thumped by England, have to go through the playoffs, get an easy group and then play Paraguay in the last 16, USA in the quarters, South Korea in the semis.
    World Cup is similar to the Champions League, the luck of the draw plays a huge part in who wins it.
    2002 was especially bad as the tournament was split into two.


    How so? Do you mean that the two halves of the draw were set in stone prior to the outset (I.e. you could meet your group mate in the semi not the final?)
    Yes, I guess it was done to keep Japan in Japan and Korea in Korea.

    Arguably it doesn’t really matter, but it feels a bit wrong.

    Personally, my preference would be for only the eight group winners to progress, then two groups of four with the winners meeting in the final.

    Would be a quality format although lots of jeopardy!

    Tonight’s game would have been a belter.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?

    Would you say the same if minorities were systematically under-represented?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    The continuous degradation and disrespect for "whiteness" will, eventually, come back to bite the Woke on the arse. We already see it stirring in America

    IBecause. f you single out Whites and White Culture and cis-het-White Males for unique abuse, and claim they are uniquely evil, then inevitably and eventually Whites will caucus as White People, vote for White Candidates, White Parties, and White Pride. Haute bourgeois disapproval can only prevent this for so long

    I used to bemoan this development, and I still see it as deeply sad and regrettable. Now I also see it as likely inevitable
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Andy_JS said:

    What a day its been.

    Politicians are like buses, you wait around for thirty years to see one, then FOUR turn up all at once.
    The last time I met a politician was Angela Eagle, then newly elected for Wallasey, all the way back in December 1992 for our secondary school awards ceremony.

    Nothing since, though I'd made no effort to actually meet them and then last week I was jumped by Paula Barker, MP for Liverpool Wavertree whilst out shopping at Asda ("the Asda") near Sefton Park. Didn't have the heart to tell her I wasn't a constituent.

    Not to be deterred however, we ran into Peter Dowd, who my wife and I met today at our Church in Crosby. I didn't expect to say a single word to him, but he came over to us during tea and cake and shared a long chat with us, discussing life as an MP, but also a nice long chat about the EU and how the Conservatives have messed it all up.

    Finally, two local councillors were approached and thanked by my wife for their help in the summer over the erection of a 5G mast proposed outside our house (which was then blocked).

    Four in a week. My goodness.

    Not much sign of Conservative politicians in Merseyside.
    Well, although both areas will deny it, Southport has a Conservative MP and Wirral West has flirted recently enough with Ester McVey. Both are considered in Merseyside.
    Although I've not checked everywhere, I think they have some local strength in the suburbs of Merseyside. Formby, Ainsdale, the west of Wirral and I suspect the leafier parts of south Liverpool will see some local strength.
    But mostly, it's Labour towering over everything.
  • Foxy said:

    If Costa Rica grind out a draw or better vs Germany, and Spain dispatch Japan they go through. Remarkable after their poor start.

    They were poor today too and very lucky to win. Their team is very old and has nearly all players from domestic clubs excluding many good young players in European clubs. An absolute disgrace the way the national team is run and the Colombian manager allowing the players to drink heavily the night before a game.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?
    I bring it up because it is so noticeable. It’s as if all advertisers have come to the same cunning wheeze at the same time - all families are mixed race so you hit as much of the target audience as possible. And by doing so they no longer represent the U.K. population, at least the vast majority, who don’t live in mixed race couples. And as casino says, it leads to people thinking the U.K. is far less white than it is, which adds to fears about immigration.
    And non of it is done with malice, or harmful intent, it’s just advertisers doing their job.
    And there is no way to change it, nor should we try. But it is noticeable.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Good match that. Both those teams are genuine contenders imo. Lineker's trousers were also fine. That problem seems to have been addressed. We can lose to Wales and still top the group btw - not sure if this is generally appreciated.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    By the way, if anyone wants to get annoyed (or even informed!) about the problems of museum curation, have a look at the controversy in 1989 at the Royal Ontario Museum.

    What happened? I'm too tired to look it up at the moment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    WHITE PRIDE

    Savour it
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    If being woke means avoiding sleepless nights agonising about the (alleged) over-representation of (some) minority ethnic groups on TV commercials, and then posting about my deep concerns on an internet blog, then I think I'll choose woke.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?
    I bring it up because it is so noticeable. It’s as if all advertisers have come to the same cunning wheeze at the same time - all families are mixed race so you hit as much of the target audience as possible. And by doing so they no longer represent the U.K. population, at least the vast majority, who don’t live in mixed race couples. And as casino says, it leads to people thinking the U.K. is far less white than it is, which adds to fears about immigration.
    And non of it is done with malice, or harmful intent, it’s just advertisers doing their job.
    And there is no way to change it, nor should we try. But it is noticeable.
    Market forces in operation.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which


    could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.





    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the



    cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    I amazed that anyone cares that much whether the bloke in the Morrisons ad has a Chinese dad or whatever

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?



    I bring it up because it is so noticeable. It’s as if

    all advertisers have come to the same cunning wheeze at the same time - all families are mixed race so you hit as much of the target audience as possible. And by doing so they no longer represent the U.K. population, at least the vast majority, who don’t live in mixed race couples. And as casino says, it leads to people thinking the U.K. is far less white than it is, which adds to fears about immigration.
    And non of it is done with malice, or harmful intent, it’s just advertisers doing their job.
    And there is no way to change it, nor should we try. But it is noticeable.
    If you asked me the colour of the dad, mum, daughter and son in any of the supermarket ads I’d have no fucking idea. Does anyone care, beyond the weird obsessive realms of PB? Does anyone even watch adverts anymore?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    What's the best inexpensive wine?
  • Looks like our follower, @EP_Lawrence, a BBC camera operator, has been arrested by the Chinese police for filming today’s protest in Shanghai. The situation in China is becoming increasingly tense.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1596977326369042433
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    What's the best inexpensive wine?
    Right now? For reds probably Argentinian or Balkan (Greek, Macedonian, Moldovan, etc)

    For whites I'd go Portuguese, Greek, Italian. Be counter-intuitive

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    edited November 2022

    Whole raft of outcomes in this group now.

    Including Spain losing to Japan, Germany winning big - and Spain going home.

    lol.

    Would love to see Spain go out

    Cyclefree said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Kinda wondering what site I bother coming to where contemptible racist statements such as "We are a white country" stay up.
    I make no comment on the statement itself.

    As a factual matter the figures from the Office of National Statistics are as follows:-


    Ethnic Group Population Percentage
    White 55,010,359 87.1%
    Asian or Asian British 4,373,339 6.9%
    Black or Black British 1,904,684 3.0%
    Mixed / Multiple ethnic groups 1,250,229 2.0%
    Other ethnic group 580,374 0.9%
    Gypsy / Traveller / Irish Traveller 63,193 0.1%
    Would not think that looking at TV adverts…
    I wonder if that's because there's such a split between the demographics in metropolitan and non-metropolitan Britain?

    I know the Houses of Parliament received a report from a consultancy that argued that its staff (both Commons and Lords) should be representative of the demographics in London in the aftermath of George Floyd.

    Maybe MSM broadcasting studios take a similar approach?
    Maybe, but I think it’s more that they are trying to advertise to all in the nation (rightly - maximise your market), and have hit on the wheeze that every family shall be mixed race. Perhaps it’s more noticeable to me in leafy Wiltshire than metroplolitan Britain? *

    *I don’t really care about this, it’s just an observation.


    It's certainly the case that mixed race families are

    hugely overrepresented.



    I think any sort of overreach is a mistake, as it

    happens, as it risks a backlash to what it's trying to promote.
    Yawn. Who gives a fuck?

    Well, comments like this are sort of the point, aren't they? As are the dumb "likes" they garner.

    There is no level of overrepresentation that would garner any criticism because it risks making the person making them look like a secret racist, so why not turn it up to 100%?

    What possible (legitimate) objection could there be?

    One can only really say: I don't care.

    Whilst they are just adverts, which no-one really likes and wants to watch anyone, the problem is they contribute to a view in which some whites may feel unrepresented and unvalued, and to a climate where immigration is perceived to be massively higher than it actually is, both of which could have real world political effects - including both poor policy and polarisation.

    So, the sensible course isn’t to just go for the cheap and easy applause with "Yawn. Who gives a fuck?" but to be brave enough to, yes, challenge overreach whilst also arguing for proper representation and inclusion at the same time.

    This stuff shouldn't be hard.
    Like @Anabobazina, I fail to understand why anyone gets the slightest bit exercised by this. Why does it matter in the slightest?
    I bring it up because it is so noticeable. It’s as if all advertisers have come to the same cunning wheeze at the same time - all families are mixed race so you hit as much of the target audience as possible. And by doing so they no longer represent the U.K. population, at least the vast majority, who don’t live in mixed race couples. And as casino says, it leads to people thinking the U.K. is far less white than it is, which adds to fears about immigration.
    And non of it is done with malice, or harmful intent, it’s just advertisers doing their job.
    And there is no way to change it, nor should we try. But it is noticeable.
    Market forces in operation.
    It starts from the simple premise held in ad agencies (london centric, very woke): You can't make an ad with just white people in it any more because we're a multicultural society.

    OK, so that's your premise. The problem is you usually only have two or three "main characters" in an ad (and more often than not, they're a family). Because of the ad agency's premise (you can't have an ad with just white people in it), that means one of your two or three characters must be an ethnic minority - and usually, given that most ads feature families, at least one member of the family will be non-white.

    Hence the over-representation. If the number of ethnic minorities in ads cannot be zero (because of the premise, above), then it must be at least 33% given a 30 second ad will generally not allow more than two or three main characters (extras don't count).

    It's not a conspiracy, it's simple numbers. If there were 100 people every ad, then 1 in 10 of them could be a minority. But there are 2 or 3 people in an ad, and if you believe that ads with only white people aren't "multicultural" enough then you inevitably end up with over-representation due to the low numbers of main characters in ads.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
    But that isn't 2017
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Matt finishes 3rd - despite being 2nd favourite as vote was announced.
  • After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited November 2022

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
    But that isn't 2017
    £21 here

    https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/la+croix+marbuzet+st+estephe+medoc+bordeaux+france/2017/uk

    But tbf there's not much 2017 for sale. Probably just as well.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    MikeL said:

    Matt finishes 3rd - despite being 2nd favourite as vote was announced.

    Like the Tories in GE24?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
    There ya go. Tit

    https://www.vivino.com/GB/en/marbuzet-saint-estephe/w/1370641?year=2017
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.

    Cripes.
    We wouldn't want such football related misbehaviour to spread here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    "Legendary comedian George Carlin perfectly nailed the fraud of political correctness 32 years ago"

    https://twitter.com/historyinmemes/status/1596707921412300801

    The punch line is well...very punchy.
  • dixiedean said:

    My youngest made his university ice hockey debut last night. They lost 22-0.
    I wasn't surprised, as, when he went down in September, I wasn't aware of him ever having been skating.

    A rule-of-thumb in Swedish ice hockey is that, assuming you start about age 5 or 6, you need to ice skate approximately 10,000 hours to achieve excellence, 8,000 hours to be reasonably good, or 4,000 hours to be an average/mediocre player.

    This rule is frequently challenged, however zero skating hours is gonna be a problem.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    dixiedean said:

    After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.

    Cripes.
    We wouldn't want such football related misbehaviour to spread here.
    Perish the thought
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    dixiedean said:

    After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.

    Cripes.
    We wouldn't want such football related misbehaviour to spread here.
    It’s an English disease, don’t ya know?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited November 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
    There ya go. Tit

    https://www.vivino.com/GB/en/marbuzet-saint-estephe/w/1370641?year=2017
    You're believing Vivino. With no supporting evidence. Who's the tit?

    It's £15 a bottle here:

    https://www.weinprestige.de/shop/Château-La-Croix-de-Marbuzet-2017-AOC-Saint-Estephe-p187519074
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tomorrow on PB:

    Too many pretty girls and ethnic minority males on the TV World Cup coverage will spark ALL OUT CULTURE WAR
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.

    Brussels Sprouts violence elsewhere?
  • Due to the backlash from Chinese fans seeing unmasked crowds in Qatar, Chinese TV is now replacing live crowds shots during games and instead cutting to close-ups of players and coaches.

    https://twitter.com/DreyerChina/status/1596721748824641536
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360


    "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons."
    Cyclefree said:

    I am - provocatively - going to bring today's two threads together.

    Missionaries going to Africa to bring Christianity and medicine - as in that dreadful painting - is now seen as bad and of its time and not on now. Instead we have the likes of Oxfam who bring help to the poorest and those affected by natural disasters and.... er...... sexually exploit poor women.

    As here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56670162 - some 3 years after the previous scandal. We have had similar stories about UN relief agencies and other NGOs - for instance, refugee children in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone were subjected to sexual abuse and exploitation, reportedly by employees of national and international NGOs, UNHCR and other UN bodies. Even Save The Children was subject to sexual abuse allegations against its employees.

    It's almost as if people with power will abuse it, sexual predators will abuse every opportunity they can find and doing good works does not stop people behaving like total arseholes - whether in the 19th century or now.

    I doubt if African Christians, who tend to be pretty keen Christians, object to the work of missionaries.

    Perhaps their voices should be heard.

    "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons."

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    After Brussels, violence also erupted in Antwerp, and in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam.

    Brussels Sprouts violence elsewhere?
    They've got the wind up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Can we at least charge them the congestion charge.....because they are causing plenty of it.

    Just Stop Oil activists are planning to launch a campaign of Christmas chaos on Monday by targeting roads across central London, police have warned.

    Protesters are expected to unleash a fresh wave of disruption which will see them blocking major roundabouts, glueing themselves to the tarmac and marching slowly in front of traffic.

    “Where activists cross the line into criminality, the Met will provide a proportionate policing response.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/27/just-stop-oil-protests-london-christmas/

    That's 4 fair trade non-dairy teas, 2 with hemp milk, 2 with oat, 5 fair trade coffees..... 8 slices of vegan cake and a package of biscuits....do you need anything else during your protest?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am drinking a 2017 Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet and it is DISGUSTING. Thin, feeble, one dimensional, meagre, acidic, nasty. Tastes like it cost £3 from Aldi. Why is so much Bordeaux hideously overpriced?

    Vivino tells me this bottle is worth £50. Insane

    Vivino is lying, not for the first time. The Chateau La Croix de Marbuzet 2019 (a much better year) is £20 from Waitrose.

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/red-wine/chateau-la-croix-de-marbuzet
    There ya go. Tit

    https://www.vivino.com/GB/en/marbuzet-saint-estephe/w/1370641?year=2017
    You're believing Vivino. With no supporting evidence. Who's the tit?

    It's £15 a bottle here:

    https://www.weinprestige.de/shop/Château-La-Croix-de-Marbuzet-2017-AOC-Saint-Estephe-p187519074
    Apologies for the "tit". I got irritated by the accusation of lying

    TBH this wine is not worth £10, maybe not £5 - it is that bad - so the debate is silly. Bordeaux remains ridiculously overpriced at a time when many many regions around the world have learned the knack of knocking out fantastic wine - including England
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited November 2022
    Sometimes it's like a glorified Neighbourhood Watch scheme on here.

    Busybodies peering out of their net curtains in their expensive houses, on the look out for wokeness, violent foreigners, disgraceful TV ads with minorities in them, grubby eco-terrorists, and all other manner of badness. And then reporting them to the PB community so that we can all 'tut' in disapproval. Shame.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited November 2022

    "Legendary comedian George Carlin perfectly nailed the fraud of political correctness 32 years ago"

    https://twitter.com/historyinmemes/status/1596707921412300801

    The punch line is well...very punchy.

    It’s a great clip - but has sod all to do with “political correctness” - more the tendency to replace plain English with tedious jargon and cliches. A longstanding lament of mind on PB
This discussion has been closed.